[plug] Debian CD's covers and Computer Science courses

[Simon Scott]

	> Having gone to ECU and studied CS there, I can whole heartedly
recommend 
	> this as a very practical university, particularly at later years, 
	> although why you want to study Ada at the lower levels never
ceases to 
	> amaze me.  The lecturers are usually pretty dry, but very
informative 
	> and generally willing to help students outside of
lectures/tutorials and 
	> workshops.

	Which uni did you go to? :) I would agree with this statement, but
maybe 10 years ago :) 


	> 
	> I also believe that their Software Engineering course is very good

	> (second hand info).  High level programming with a VERY practical
whole 
	> year project in the final year (this STILL gives my friends that
have 
	> done this nightmares).
	>

	Yes, I still have nightmares, but not for the reason you think.

	The 3rd year unit is meant to be a 'real-life' scenario... working
with a team, you spend a year working towards a goal (mostly unobtainable,
but thats not the point), thrashing out ideas and implementing it with care
and attention.

	This is not what happens. It is not real life. It is not a good
approximation of real life. It sucked.

	For starters, you have a team leader, who is totally inexperienced
and doesnt have a clue what they are doing. Never seen that in industry.

	Secondly, there is no money, so you are working 80 hour weeks with
no monetary reward. Again, I have never seen that in industry. Money changes
everything.

	Thirdly, because you are all students, the team leader has
absolutely no power over team members, and so commonly people would
disappear for weeks on end. Never seen that in industry.

	Fourthly (?), you cannot fire team members if they arent performing.
2 or 3 of my team I would have dropped like a hot potato 3 weeks into it.
The lecturers take on it was 'you have to manage each other, and deal with
problems, just like the real world'. This is crap. In the real world I would
hand-pick my team, and fire anyone who wasnt up to scratch. So you are
carrying dead-weight with no recourse.

	Fifthly (??), since you are all students, and desperate to graduate,
people become very underhanded. After working my guts out on doco for a few
months towards the end, I managed to score enough marks near the buzzer so
we actually passed the unit. However, a few members decided that all I had
ever done the whole year was 'a few bits of doco' and thus marked me down
(yes! there is student-student assessment!). Never mind they werent even
there when myself and the teamleader did the bulk of the design and
implementation (admittedly I struggled on implementation due to lack of
interest, so concentrated my efforts elsewhere). It was like Big Brother
style backstabbing for fuck's sake. This is *not* like the real world. In
the real world you cant do that, otherwise you get a reputation and noone
employs you. I wouldnt employ said people, but like they care. Fortunately
my team leader knew better and went to the lecturer and told him what was
what, so I ended up passing. His take on it was 'You got screwed, yet
another free life-lesson'. But in the real-world, I would have never been in
that position. I would have had authority, or would have declined the job.
Simple.

	Sixthly (:)), the task was so unacheivable given the resources that
morale was low throughout. The tools (Oracle forms and reports) were broken
and the servers were always down. After killing myself, I realised my health
suffered and still look back to that time as the beginnings of my Crohn's
disease (an auto-immune disease which is stress-related). It wasnt worth it.
Spend a year doing work experience instead. Get paid. Dont look back.
	 
	> That's about it.  I did a minor in computer science, with a major
in 
	> Biol.  Anyone else been through ECU and can give a better view?
You can 
	> even disagree if you want ;-)))

	The course content was good. 3rd year project sucked. Some real
bright lights, who have since left to be replaced by non-english speaking
lecturers. These days, give it a wide berth. Give me $5 and Ill give you a
piece of paper with your name on it. 

	> 
	> Fabríico, it may also be better if you gave an idea about what you

	> wanted to study.  If you want to study CS, and become and
academic, UWA 
	> is probably going to be the way to go.  Purely because of the
amount of 
	> funding for PostGrads that they have.  If you want to become a
manager 
	> then Curtin may be better because of links with Business.  Or ECU
if you 
	> want more practical courses.  It's all horses for courses really.
<I 
	> can't believe I just said that>.
	> 

	Complete it overseas :)




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