[plug] Good GUI Interface Design

[Cameron Patrick]

On Sat, Dec 20, 2003 at 01:40:52PM +0800, Ben New wrote:

| First I'd just like to say that saying "GUI interface" is like saying 
| "ATM machine". That's just my pickiness for you ;-)

Not to mention PIN number :-)

| What do you do if you don't like the Windows GUI? (Install Linux, I
| know ;-) but assuming that isn't an option...?)

Install LiteStep or one of the many other explorer replacements?  Those
from the Windows world probably have a whole pile of hidden tricks to
get Windows to behave more sensible than it does.

Of course if you do that, and you then want to go to someone else's
machine, good luck transferring all your customisations (such that they
affect your account only) there easily.  Mmm, rsync :)

| >Seeing this solved would handle my #1 concern about linux desktop 
| >useability. (shooting the gtk+ file/save dialog in the head would be a 
| >close second).
| 
| While I totally agree about the GTK+ file dialogs (they Totally Suck), 

Thirded ;)

| I'd have to say there are a number of logistical problems with your 
| proposed ".guirc" method.
| 
| Firstly, not all software that is run on Linux is "Linux software" - 
| i.e. there are also Java apps, Windows apps under Wine (etc), and so on, 
| which would have no knowledge of the ".guirc" file. Neither are they all 
| developed using the same tools - there are programs written in C, C++, 
| Python, Tcl/Tk, and so on. It just seems impractical to have them all 
| tied down to the same interface constraints.

However, they use just a handful of toolkits:  Xaw, Motif, GTK, Qt, Tk.
(Forgetting about Wine, OOo and Mozilla here - they're about the only
applications that I can think of which don't use the major toolkits
above.)  Porting those toolkits to obey .guirc would cover the
overwhelming majority of problems.

| By forcing standard behaviours (even if they are configurable), aren't
| you limiting the scope for application developer creativity?

I think that James D had something to say about developers being
"creative" with their interfaces.  (Hint: most of the time is sucks
badly.  I can't stand WinAmp and everything which copied it and its
"skins" idea.  Sweep, OTOH, is a good example of a creative interface
Done Right.  Even there it sticks to standard GTK for most of its
interface.  The GIMP is a good example of a hideous interface - it also
plays badly with "non-traditional" window managers like ion and ratpoison that
don't support overlapping windows except in a few special cases.)

| The ol' number-of-mouse-buttons debate hey?

Random thought from a mouse-avoider:  what about a zero-button mouse?
Use the mouse for pointing only, and then you have 102 buttons on your
keyboard that you can use do stuff with.

| OTOH, the new Microsoft-style things with 15 buttons running down both 
| sides and 6 different scroll wheels are equally as annoying. They have 
| those at Murdoch in some of the labs, and I'm always accidentally 
| bumping the side buttons which has all sorts of wierd results. Again, 
| probably just my uncoordination.

Agreed.  I got given one for free a couple of years ago.  It was a
shocking glowing red Microsoft job with an extra button on each side of
the mouse which made Windows Explorer do peculiar things, and was easy
to nudge by accident.  I gave it away...

I haven't noticed them at Murdoch, although I generally ignore the mouse
most of the time in those labs.  (Windows button, p, scroll to Putty, is
all you need :-P)

| Currently I use a 2-button mouse with 1 scroll wheel and it does 
| everything I want it to. I especially like the ability to click the 
| "middle mouse button" (aka wheel) for "open in new window" functionality.

Ohh yes.  That's handy in web browsing.  And now that I'm used to
X11-style highlight to select/middle button to paste, I'd not give it
up.

xfig also needs a middle mouse button.  (Actually there you have another
case of an "innovative" interface...  In some ways its mouse button
diagram is a lot nicer than OOo's "guess what effect
ctrl-alt-shift-meta-hyper-middle-button has... when scroll lock is
enabled... and you're holding down tab..." approach to drawing and
resizing shapes.)

| >* Aesthetically pleasing
| >
| >... is a matter of aesthetic preferences. I don't personally agree - 
| >while generally nice, I think it's badly damaged by the nasty "brushed 
| >metal" stuff and little coloured bead-buttons.
| 
| Yep, it's all down to taste and style, which, again, is why I like the 
| highly configurable Linux model.

Yes.  OTOH having defaults that are easiest for new users is a good
idea.  Then people like me have something to configure themselves as far
away from as possible :-P

Cameron.