[plug] [OT] murdoch IT dept

[Ben New]

IMO it's not the choice of languages that is causing the problem.  C and 
Java are different enough (from each other) that the low-level stuff can 
be taught in C, and the OO stuff in the Java unit.  C++ just has too 
many causes for confusion, like the passing-by-reference thing, and its 
complete botch job of object orientation.  But we learnt C++ in my time, 
and I'm so glad it was that and not Pascal (I hated that long-winded 
language!) just that Java would have been better for OO imho ;-) 

Just that changing back to C++, or to any other language, will not solve 
the problems that currently exist.  I think the problem is partly the 
structure of the courses (e.g. trying to jam a bit of assembler in a C 
course is just rude).  But the main problem is that the academics are 
completely usel<SNIP!  In the name of avoiding defamation suits...>

For example, no wonder the students are confused about simple OO stuff.  
The second assignment of B104 (the Java unit) asks for a program that 
includes 3 classes - a Person class, an Account class and a client 
application class (with the main method).  No problems with that.... but 
hang on!  It says here that Account should be *derived from Person*  
WHAT THE???   Account IS-A Person...???  hmmmmmmm......

And strangely enough (!), the students I've talked to had no idea what 
"derived from" even meant!

I seem to remember these are the same lecturers that, during my 
education, would respond to the most straight forward of questions with, 
"I don't know, you look it up the book!"

Anyway in the interest of not flooding the list with this crap, I'm 
going to make this my last post to this thread :-)  Feel free to reply 
to me off-list if you feel the need ;-)

Ben

P.S. Paul and any other Murdoch students, I offer private tuition for 
moderate rates, please contact me off-list if interested.  Sorry if this 
is too commercial-like but it is on an OT thread :-}




Arkem (Paul) wrote:

>I'm currently going through Murdoch's IT Department and I'm doing ok but
>many people are having massive problems.
>
>As it stands typical Murdoch students go through the following:
>(As an aside I'm very atypical as I'm doing a second major [Telecoms
>Management] which messes this around a little)
>
>Semester 1: Java
>Semester 2: Java (now explaining OO), C and a tiny bit of Intel 8086 ASM
>From Second year on it's mostly up to the students though
>Semester 3-6: C++ (required)
>                    Lots More Java (all optional)
>                    PHP/Perl/JavaScript (optional, all taught in one unit)
>                    More C (optional, some unix work, systems programming)
>                    etc, etc, etc...
>
>Many people by the stage I'm at (semester 4) have trouble grasping
>fundamental OO principals such as the difference between a class
>and an object. Just about everyone has forgotten most of the C they learnt
>and all the assembly and all the memory theory like stack, heap and
>what happens when a function is called. It's rather confusing learning
>about a stack as a data structure when you have dim recolections
>of The Stack =)
>
>Quite a few of the staff know the problem and are trying to find a
>solution. Dr Nicola Ritter who teaches C++ and Data Structures
>is a big advocate for C++ for 1st year students. Though nobody
>has found a complete solution yet.
>  
>


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