From nofixed at westnet.com.au Thu Jul 1 00:11:00 2004 From: nofixed at westnet.com.au (Jim Householder) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 00:11:00 +0800 Subject: [plug] MythTV setup Message-ID: <40E2E614.2040602@westnet.com.au> I am installing MythTV 0.15.1, and have hit a wall. Things seemed to go ok until I ran setup. Then I got QSqlDatabase warning: QMYSQL3 driver not loaded I am using MDK 10, and mysql appears to be running. Any ideas? TIA Jim From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Thu Jul 1 00:34:19 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 00:34:19 +0800 Subject: [plug] *** Help wanted: Installfest flyer design *** Message-ID: <20040630163419.GA24100@patrick.wattle.id.au> Hi folks, PLUG is doing the installfest thing again soon -- Sunday, July 18th -- and while we've had quite a few volunteers offer to help out with installing Linux and lending us equipment, we really need help publicising the thing. The general idea is that we make up a flyer, put PDFs up somewhere and everyone here can help plaster it all over Perth. Before we can do that, of course, we need a poster that will attract people. So, we want people who can do graphics design to make up a nice poster to advertise our Installfest. The current (ugly) prototype can be found at: http://plug.linux.org.au/~cameron/installfest-2004-flyer.pdf http://plug.linux.org.au/~cameron/installfest-2004-flyer.sxw (If you like it, thank Bernard. If you don't like it, it's my fault. Either way, I'm sure someone here can do something much spiffier!) You can find more about the Installfest at http://installfest.plug.org.au/ Regards, Cameron. From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Thu Jul 1 01:22:06 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 01:22:06 +0800 Subject: [plug] Re: *** Help wanted: Installfest flyer design *** In-Reply-To: <20040630163419.GA24100@patrick.wattle.id.au> References: <20040630163419.GA24100@patrick.wattle.id.au> Message-ID: <20040630172206.GB24100@patrick.wattle.id.au> Cameron Patrick wrote: > PLUG is doing the installfest thing again soon -- Sunday, July 18th [...] > http://plug.linux.org.au/~cameron/installfest-2004-flyer.pdf > http://plug.linux.org.au/~cameron/installfest-2004-flyer.sxw For all you pedants: yes, the current flyer does say "Saturday, 18 July". It's wrong, the 18th July is really a Sunday. Bleh! Cameron. From mark at mjg.id.au Thu Jul 1 01:27:33 2004 From: mark at mjg.id.au (Mark J Gaynor) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 01:27:33 +0800 Subject: [plug] *** Help wanted: Installfest flyer design *** In-Reply-To: <20040630163419.GA24100@patrick.wattle.id.au> References: <20040630163419.GA24100@patrick.wattle.id.au> Message-ID: <200407010127330560.03F81BFA@mail.webace.com.au> Poster looks good to me, simple and straight to the point. Mark -- *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/07/2004 at 12:34 AM Cameron Patrick wrote: >Hi folks, > >PLUG is doing the installfest thing again soon -- Sunday, July 18th -- >and while we've had quite a few volunteers offer to help out with >installing Linux and lending us equipment, we really need help >publicising the thing. The general idea is that we make up a flyer, >put PDFs up somewhere and everyone here can help plaster it all over >Perth. Before we can do that, of course, we need a poster that will >attract people. > >So, we want people who can do graphics design to make up a nice poster >to advertise our Installfest. > >The current (ugly) prototype can be found at: > >http://plug.linux.org.au/~cameron/installfest-2004-flyer.pdf >http://plug.linux.org.au/~cameron/installfest-2004-flyer.sxw > >(If you like it, thank Bernard. If you don't like it, it's my fault. >Either way, I'm sure someone here can do something much spiffier!) > >You can find more about the Installfest at http://installfest.plug.org.au/ > >Regards, > >Cameron. > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au From billk at iinet.net.au Thu Jul 1 06:49:05 2004 From: billk at iinet.net.au (William Kenworthy) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 06:49:05 +0800 Subject: [plug] my Linux is too young! Need older "tail" and "head" In-Reply-To: <40E2D166.9070600@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <20040630135406.GD11731@postoffice.wa.bom.gov.au> <40E2D166.9070600@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <1088635745.10238.3.camel@rattus.Localdomain> Not true - head and tails use of -1 has recently been deprecated in favour of the supposedly more standard "-n 1" syntax, generating lots of error messages in older scripts, creating the effects Denis mentioned. It prints a message to the screen when you use the -1 syntax telling you that its deprecated! BillK On Wed, 2004-06-30 at 22:42, Craig Ringer wrote: > Denis Brown wrote: > > > As an example, an installation programme (shell script) performs a > > compilation of source code and at the end, examines a log file to see if > > the last line is a success code or failure. Something like > > tail -1 thislog.txt > > That should work fine. 'tail' is a standalone program anyway, not a part > of the shell, and it's been consistent for an impressively long time. > From billk at iinet.net.au Thu Jul 1 07:04:34 2004 From: billk at iinet.net.au (William Kenworthy) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 07:04:34 +0800 Subject: [plug] protecting a tar file In-Reply-To: References: <40E2CD3D.7060808@book-keepingnetwork.com.au> <1088607443.1993.40.camel@localhost> <40E2D4FF.2080608@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <1088636674.10238.14.camel@rattus.Localdomain> zip -e the tar file. zip has what is considered weak encryption but is simple to use. There seem to be a number of other similar utilities that either compress and encrypt or just encrypt the file. or something like: tar -zcvf - stuff|openssl des3 -salt -k secretpassword | dd of=stuff.des3 and dd if=stuff.des3 |openssl des3 -d -k secretpassword|tar zxf - or create a largish loopback container formated with stegfs on top of ext2 and put the tar into that. That should stump a script kiddie! Played with this when I was using ext2 and it does work. BillK On Wed, 2004-06-30 at 23:27, Denis Brown wrote: > Dear PLUG list members, > > A final conundrum for tonight, concerning tar. How does one protect > the contents of a tar file from being read by unauthorised people? I'm From dsbrown at cyllene.uwa.edu.au Thu Jul 1 07:08:10 2004 From: dsbrown at cyllene.uwa.edu.au (Denis Brown) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 07:08:10 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] protecting a tar file In-Reply-To: <20040630154742.GA29809@blackham.com.au> References: <40E2CD3D.7060808@book-keepingnetwork.com.au> <1088607443.1993.40.camel@localhost> <40E2D4FF.2080608@postnewspapers.com.au> <20040630154742.GA29809@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: Thanks, Matt and Bernard. I like Matt's analogy of a tar file to a hard disk - if the "device" can be accessed then so too can its contents, thus permissions are not the way to do it. Thanks, Bernard, for your obfuscation suggestion - an excellent example of piping to throw people off the scent :-) The chmod'ing to 000 was close to what I had in mind but as you both point out, it is comparatively straight forward to suss out why extracted contents cannot be read, and do something about it thanks to control over the "device." On balance I think I will go with GPG and a strong pass phrase... if I ever fell under a bus, etc, I would not want the "secret" of how the tar files were protected to die with me. I will most likely make use of the rot idea for protecting other of my personal data so your suggestion is not in vain! I hope the ideas raised have been useful to others, too. Cheers, Denis From j-conversations at decisions-and-designs.com.au Thu Jul 1 07:43:30 2004 From: j-conversations at decisions-and-designs.com.au (Jacqueline McNally) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 07:43:30 +0800 Subject: [plug] Hack, triplej and open source In-Reply-To: <20040630135406.GD11731@postoffice.wa.bom.gov.au> References: <20040630135406.GD11731@postoffice.wa.bom.gov.au> Message-ID: <40E35022.3060209@decisions-and-designs.com.au> Russell Steicke wrote: > On Wed, Jun 30, 2004 at 09:28:56PM +0800, John Knight wrote: > >>I'm assuming that most missed it, but on Hack today, there was a piece on >>Bill Gate's 'donation', and it went onto an interview with the Democrats' >>IT man, and how governments should turn to open source, etc. If someone >>else was listening, I'm should they could explain it much better or even >>provide some kind of link! > > > I heard it while driving home. The interviewee was Senator Brian Greig. > He sounded quite well informed, but I was a bit surprised at one thing. > He mentioned that companies could save money because the boss realised > that "I've been supplying my people with a Rolls Royce on the desktop, > when they only need a Mini". Minis are more fun and much better at going round hard corners than a Rolls Royce :) People seem to like car analogies. I feel like Linux is more of a high performance car that you want to tweak all the time to see if you can get that extra umph. What is that car that goes fast and still has rope handles ;P All the best Jacqueline McNally -- Summer in Berlin OpenOffice.org Conference 2004 22nd - 24th September, Berlin, Germany http://marketing.openoffice.org/conference/ From apolglaze at book-keepingnetwork.com.au Thu Jul 1 07:42:22 2004 From: apolglaze at book-keepingnetwork.com.au (Alex Polglaze) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 07:42:22 +0800 Subject: [plug] Hack, triplej and open source In-Reply-To: <40E35022.3060209@decisions-and-designs.com.au> References: <20040630135406.GD11731@postoffice.wa.bom.gov.au> <40E35022.3060209@decisions-and-designs.com.au> Message-ID: <40E34FDE.8020802@book-keepingnetwork.com.au> > > What is that car that goes fast and still has rope > handles ;P A hill Trolley Alex From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Thu Jul 1 08:54:21 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 08:54:21 +0800 Subject: [plug] Hack, triplej and open source In-Reply-To: <40E35022.3060209@decisions-and-designs.com.au> References: <20040630135406.GD11731@postoffice.wa.bom.gov.au> <40E35022.3060209@decisions-and-designs.com.au> Message-ID: <200407010854.22076@death.2.spammers> On Thursday 01 July 2004 07:43, Jacqueline McNally wrote: > Russell Steicke wrote: > > I heard it while driving home. The interviewee was Senator > > Brian Greig. He sounded quite well informed, but I was a bit > > surprised at one thing. He mentioned that companies could save > > money because the boss realised that "I've been supplying my > > people with a Rolls Royce on the desktop, when they only need a > > Mini". > Minis are more fun and much better at going round hard corners > than a Rolls Royce :) One is usually chauffeured in a Roller. Upon checking the online dictionary, Webster says about "Chauffeur": 1. [pl.] (F. Hist.) Brigands in bands, who, about 1793, pillaged, burned, and killed in parts of France; -- so called because they used to burn the feet of their victims to extort money. Hmmm... Windows is more like Lada; old technology, unreliable, high-maintenance and you have to add on lots of stuff to make it even bearable. Linux is more like a "Volkswagen"; the People's Car. Except much better because you don't have to buy it. You can build it out of free parts and it'll still run. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Thu Jul 1 08:57:14 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 08:57:14 +0800 Subject: [plug] my Linux is too young! Need older "tail" and "head" In-Reply-To: References: <20040630145618.GC17495@patrick.wattle.id.au> Message-ID: <200407010857.14263@death.2.spammers> On Wednesday 30 June 2004 23:03, Denis Brown wrote: > On Wed, 30 Jun 2004, Cameron Patrick wrote: > > Cameron Patrick wrote: > > > Denis Brown wrote: > > > Aha, from 'info coreutils': > > > > The GNU utilities normally conform to the version of POSIX that > > is standard for your system. To cause them to conform to a > > different version of POSIX, define the `_POSIX2_VERSION' > > environment variable to a value of the form YYYYMM specifying > > the year and month the standard was adopted. Two values are > > currently supported for `_POSIX2_VERSION': `199209' stands for > > POSIX 1003.2-1992, and `200112' stands for POSIX 1003.1-2001. > > For example, if you are running older software that assumes an > > older version of POSIX and uses `sort +1', `head -1', or `tail > > +1', you can work around the compatibility problems by setting > > `_POSIX2_VERSION=199209' in your environment. > > I dips me lid :-) To the first sufficiently desperate to RTFM. :-) -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From scott at linuxit.com.au Thu Jul 1 09:05:53 2004 From: scott at linuxit.com.au (Scott Middleton) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 09:05:53 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] Into cars as well as Linux? I'm in a spot of trouble... In-Reply-To: <1088603191.1993.22.camel@localhost> References: <1088603191.1993.22.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1088643953.3337.6.camel@sarge.int.linuxit.com.au> Need to buy some cheap new ones. GST rebate, Tax deductible and 600 K's to a 34 Litre Tank. In the end it is cheaper to buy a new car than to run around in old ones. Also easy to prove to finance companies too. Got a pic on here: http://www.linuxit.com.au or http://shop.linuxit.com.au or some of the dramas we had getting a good sign writer. http://www.linuxit.com.au/charade/charade.html On Wed, 2004-06-30 at 21:46, Chris Caston wrote: > Sorry about the OT but I am in heavy trouble here. I'm self-employed and > I managed to break the ignition key on my car. It's a 1986 Nissian > Pulsar. I seriously need this to get around Perth and provide service to > my customers. > > Please call me or e-mail off-list if you think you may be able to help. > I've in Ascot. > > I've already posted to aus.cars but I might not get a response and I'm > *very* worried. > > Thanks and sorry about the OT but please don't turn it into a thread. -- Scott Middleton Linux Information Technology From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Thu Jul 1 09:08:22 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 09:08:22 +0800 Subject: [plug] my Linux is too young! Need older "tail" and "head" In-Reply-To: References: <40E2D5CF.90602@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <200407010908.22263@death.2.spammers> On Wednesday 30 June 2004 23:13, Denis Brown wrote: > On Wed, 30 Jun 2004, Craig Ringer wrote: > > Earlier, I wrote: > > > Are you sure you're not running into another issue - for example, a > > > shell-provided 'tail' that takes different syntax? Have you tried > > > '/bin/sh /path/to/install/script.sh' to see if that helps? > > > > Nope, it looks like Cameron has it pinned down. Sorry for the noise. > I don't think noise comes into it :-) You mentioned the executable > nature of the libc and I had a look at my Gentoo installation. The > symlink is set executable and when I, as a normal user, invoke > /lib/libc.so.6 I too get rewarded with interesting info. > If anyone is interested the full line of code that extracts the > version number is > ver='/lib/libc.so.6 | head -1 | sed -e "s/^[^0-9]*//" -e "s/[ ,].*$//"' You don't actually need head/tail to do the job. sed can quit after the first line. ver='/lib/libc.so.6 | sed -e 's/^[^0-9]*\([0-9.]*\).*$/\1/' -e q` I prefer placing regular expressions in single quotes so that a shell doesn't try to do a expansion. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From scott at linuxit.com.au Thu Jul 1 09:09:30 2004 From: scott at linuxit.com.au (Scott Middleton) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 09:09:30 +0800 Subject: [plug] *** Help wanted: Installfest flyer design *** In-Reply-To: <20040630163419.GA24100@patrick.wattle.id.au> References: <20040630163419.GA24100@patrick.wattle.id.au> Message-ID: <1088644169.3337.11.camel@sarge.int.linuxit.com.au> Please let me know directly and we will make sure it goes with all CDs that are sold in WA. Also we will put some on our shelf here. If someone makes a banner up we can include it on our CD sales website. On Thu, 2004-07-01 at 00:34, Cameron Patrick wrote: > Hi folks, > > PLUG is doing the installfest thing again soon -- Sunday, July 18th -- > and while we've had quite a few volunteers offer to help out with > installing Linux and lending us equipment, we really need help > publicising the thing. The general idea is that we make up a flyer, > put PDFs up somewhere and everyone here can help plaster it all over > Perth. Before we can do that, of course, we need a poster that will > attract people. > > So, we want people who can do graphics design to make up a nice poster > to advertise our Installfest. > > The current (ugly) prototype can be found at: > > http://plug.linux.org.au/~cameron/installfest-2004-flyer.pdf > http://plug.linux.org.au/~cameron/installfest-2004-flyer.sxw > > (If you like it, thank Bernard. If you don't like it, it's my fault. > Either way, I'm sure someone here can do something much spiffier!) > > You can find more about the Installfest at http://installfest.plug.org.au/ > > Regards, > > Cameron. > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -- Scott Middleton Linux Information Technology From paul at sdmgroup.com.au Thu Jul 1 09:06:34 2004 From: paul at sdmgroup.com.au (Paul Arch) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 09:06:34 +0800 Subject: [plug] Re: *** Help wanted: Installfest flyer design *** References: <20040630163419.GA24100@patrick.wattle.id.au> <20040630172206.GB24100@patrick.wattle.id.au> Message-ID: <062a01c45f07$a6e76990$0401050a@cel2000> > > > PLUG is doing the installfest thing again soon -- Sunday, July 18th > [...] Do you want it limited to black and white only, or may we experiment in colour ;) cheers Paul From bernard at blackham.com.au Thu Jul 1 09:16:54 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 09:16:54 +0800 Subject: [plug] Re: *** Help wanted: Installfest flyer design *** In-Reply-To: <062a01c45f07$a6e76990$0401050a@cel2000> References: <20040630163419.GA24100@patrick.wattle.id.au> <20040630172206.GB24100@patrick.wattle.id.au> <062a01c45f07$a6e76990$0401050a@cel2000> Message-ID: <20040701011654.GC29809@blackham.com.au> On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 09:06:34AM +0800, Paul Arch wrote: > > > PLUG is doing the installfest thing again soon -- Sunday, July 18th > > [...] > > Do you want it limited to black and white only, or may we experiment in > colour ;) Bit of colour wouldn't go astray. Black and white for take-home flyers, and colour for pin-up posters, IMHO. Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From plug at jensz.id.au Thu Jul 1 09:33:30 2004 From: plug at jensz.id.au (Ben Jensz) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 09:33:30 +0800 Subject: [plug] Novell Linux Technical Resource Kit Message-ID: <40E369EA.30101@jensz.id.au> Just a note to anyone who hasn't seen this, Novell has a linux resource kit so you can evaluate some of their Linux products. It comes with the following: - SUSE LINUX Standard Server 8.0 (ISO Installation Images) - SUSE LINUX 9.1 Professional (Bootable Installation DVD) - Ximian Desktop 2.0 Evaluation (ISO Image) - Ximian Red Carpet 2.0.2 Evaluation (ISO Image) - Novell Linux Services 1.0 (ISO Image & NLS Companion CD) - Novell GroupWise for Linux 6.5.1 - Server, Client & Messenger (ISO Images) - and more... You can order it online here: http://www.novell.com/community/linux/order.php / Ben From senectus at gmail.com Thu Jul 1 09:42:33 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 09:42:33 +0800 Subject: [plug] Mail list dedicated to the migration from one OS to another? Message-ID: Does anyone know of a mail list dedicated to the problems and solutions found with the migration of one OS to another in Office and business environments? Specifically I'm after one that covers windows to Linux, but it doesn't need to be that limited. If there isn't any I'd also like to gauge this lists interest in participating in one (ie I may start one up). Thanks. Marcus -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From dsbrown at cyllene.uwa.edu.au Thu Jul 1 10:31:08 2004 From: dsbrown at cyllene.uwa.edu.au (Denis Brown) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 10:31:08 +0800 Subject: data encryption - was Re: [plug] protecting a tar file In-Reply-To: <1088636674.10238.14.camel@rattus.Localdomain> References: <40E2CD3D.7060808@book-keepingnetwork.com.au> <1088607443.1993.40.camel@localhost> <40E2D4FF.2080608@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040701101150.02c8d3c0@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> On the ways of preventing the exposure of the contents of a tar file, if it fell into the wrong hands... At 07:04 1/07/2004 +0800, William Kenworthy wrote: >zip -e the tar file. zip has what is considered weak encryption but is >simple to use. There seem to be a number of other similar utilities >that either compress and encrypt or just encrypt the file. I was hoping to get away from file modification (eg. using zip) on the basis that a one-bit error may be fatal to the whole thing. But then that also applies to my acceptance of GPG, doesn't it :-) >or something like: >tar -zcvf - stuff|openssl des3 -salt -k secretpassword | dd >of=stuff.des3 >and >dd if=stuff.des3 |openssl des3 -d -k secretpassword|tar zxf - Thanks for the tips! Hopefully useful to others, as well. >or create a largish loopback container formated with stegfs on top of >ext2 and put the tar into that. That should stump a script kiddie! >Played with this when I was using ext2 and it does work. Stegfs, eh? "StegFS - A Steganographic File System for Linux" I'd not heard of that before. More reading to do but this looks very interesting especially to those of us in the medical / human-data-sensitive fields. Reference url: http://www.mcdonald.org.uk/StegFS/ They seem to claim it is not for 2.4 kernels. Cheers, Denis From myk at westnet.com.au Thu Jul 1 10:32:16 2004 From: myk at westnet.com.au (Michael Holland) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 10:32:16 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] protecting a tar file In-Reply-To: References: <40E2CD3D.7060808@book-keepingnetwork.com.au> <1088607443.1993.40.camel@localhost> <40E2D4FF.2080608@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jun 2004, Denis Brown wrote: > and the tar file moved onto a hostile machine, can I set internally to the > tar file, permissions to prevent access to the archive contents? Denis, unfortunately you can set all the permission bits you want, but there is currently no way of enforcing it. The good news is that a number of companies are working on remedying this problem. With DRM technologies such as Palladium, you will gain control over who can access your data, and how. -- This e-mail encrypted with double-rot13 From caston at arach.net.au Thu Jul 1 10:47:44 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 10:47:44 +0800 Subject: [plug] Mail list dedicated to the migration from one OS to another? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1088650063.2247.6.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2004-07-01 at 09:42, Senectus . wrote: > Does anyone know of a mail list dedicated to the problems and > solutions found with the migration of one OS to another in Office and > business environments? > Specifically I'm after one that covers windows to Linux, but it > doesn't need to be that limited. > > If there isn't any I'd also like to gauge this lists interest in > participating in one (ie I may start one up). > One thing is that if you post to the list of the target operating system you are bound to get a lot of help from enthusiasts would like to help you move to their operating system of choice. If, however, you started posting here about migrating from Linux to Windows you might not get a cosy response. One of the many Windows NG's... I'm sure you'd soon hear from Microsoft wanting you to be part of their next case study. > Thanks. > Marcus From billk at iinet.net.au Thu Jul 1 10:56:05 2004 From: billk at iinet.net.au (Bill Kenworthy) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 10:56:05 +0800 Subject: data encryption - was Re: [plug] protecting a tar file In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040701101150.02c8d3c0@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> References: <40E2CD3D.7060808@book-keepingnetwork.com.au> <1088607443.1993.40.camel@localhost> <40E2D4FF.2080608@postnewspapers.com.au> <5.1.0.14.2.20040701101150.02c8d3c0@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <1088650564.13575.55.camel@cbbcbitl303c.murdoch.edu.au> Basicly, encrypt a file and write 5 copies of each block to specially chosen unallocated blocks in the file system using the driver to keep track of where they are. Due to the methods used, you need the keys to descramble the actual location of the data on the disk, and the means to reassemble them into the correct order (you can apparently have "layers" of storage to further hide the locations. Of course encrypted data looks essentially random in the FS unless you prefill it with zeros or something. There are statistical techniques that can reveal the likelyhood of a FS containg steganographic data, but not extracting it without the keys as far as I know. Downside is the OS (can be used on you main fs's as well) will write to what it thinks is an unallocated sector, so you can lose data easily (hence 5 copies in statistically chosen areas that are unlikely to be overwritten) Dont use for data that you cant risk losing! But then, if its important enough to go for this type of thing, its a risk you might be willing to take. Somewhat similar to using steganographic systems to hide data in images. BillK On Thu, 2004-07-01 at 10:31, Denis Brown wrote: > On the ways of preventing the exposure of the contents of a tar file, if it > fell into the wrong hands... ... > Stegfs, eh? "StegFS - A Steganographic File System for Linux" I'd not > heard of that before. More reading to do but this looks very interesting > especially to those of us in the medical / human-data-sensitive > fields. Reference url: http://www.mcdonald.org.uk/StegFS/ They seem to > claim it is not for 2.4 kernels. > > Cheers, > Denis > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Thu Jul 1 11:01:42 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 11:01:42 +0800 Subject: [plug] Mail list dedicated to the migration from one OS to another? In-Reply-To: <1088650063.2247.6.camel@localhost> References: <1088650063.2247.6.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <40E37E96.5000309@postnewspapers.com.au> First: to answer the OP, I'm not personally aware of such a list, and I didn't find anything in a quick scan through the comp.* newsgroups either. Chris Caston wrote: > One thing is that if you post to the list of the target operating system > you are bound to get a lot of help from enthusiasts would like to help > you move to their operating system of choice. > > If, however, you started posting here about migrating from Linux to > Windows you might not get a cosy response. Interesting. I would've such a question reasonable, on topic, and interesting. In the real world, people sometimes need to migrate data, systems, and users around in all sorts of ways. The reasons aren't always based on decisions about pure technical merit, either - pressure from management or suppliers often comes into things, and you'll often want to stick with a core application even if you have to change platform to do so. Obviously we tend to see a strong focus on migration _to_ linux here, but I don't see why migration questions need to be purely about that. How would you respond to a post saying "Help! Management just paid up for an Enterprise Agreement and want everything moved over to Win2k3 servers - any suggestions on how I can comply while retaining my sanity?". (My first comment there might be "Services for UNIX is a free download now, you know...) I suspect one problem that might be encountered if posting about Linux->Windows migration on PLUG would be the difficulty of finding posts that try to answer the question among the "why are you doing that?!?" and "You should do instead" noise. > One of the many Windows > NG's... I'm sure you'd soon hear from Microsoft wanting you to be part > of their next case study. No doubt. I think it'd be rather amusing, actually, if someone was able to say something like "Well, sure we migrated our IM server from Linux to Win2k3, but we're looking at moving everything else to Linux" at an MS show. I'd say they probably screen their "exhibits" better than that, though. -- Craig Ringer From dsbrown at cyllene.uwa.edu.au Thu Jul 1 11:08:51 2004 From: dsbrown at cyllene.uwa.edu.au (Denis Brown) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 11:08:51 +0800 Subject: data encryption - was Re: [plug] protecting a tar file In-Reply-To: <1088650564.13575.55.camel@cbbcbitl303c.murdoch.edu.au> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040701101150.02c8d3c0@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> <40E2CD3D.7060808@book-keepingnetwork.com.au> <1088607443.1993.40.camel@localhost> <40E2D4FF.2080608@postnewspapers.com.au> <5.1.0.14.2.20040701101150.02c8d3c0@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040701110305.02c7fd90@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> In reference to steganographic file systems... At 10:56 1/07/2004 +0800, Bill Kenworthy wrote: >Basicly, encrypt a file and write 5 copies of each block to specially >chosen unallocated blocks in the file system using the driver to keep >(hence 5 copies in statistically chosen areas that are unlikely to be >overwritten) "unlikely," eh? Gives me waking nightmares :-) > Dont use for data that you cant risk losing! You're a master of understatement. GPG is sounding very conservative by comparison. Thanks (Bill, et al) for all the tips on encryption, etc. Most interesting, to me anyway. Cheers and thanks, Denis From dsbrown at cyllene.uwa.edu.au Thu Jul 1 11:22:46 2004 From: dsbrown at cyllene.uwa.edu.au (Denis Brown) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 11:22:46 +0800 Subject: [plug] netiquette and an apology! Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040701110940.02e08060@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Dear PLUG list members, Thanks to Scott for pointing out to me (off list) an operating procedure that may have caused others to receive interwoven threads, which apparently causes some mail clients to thread messages incorrectly. To alert others, here is what I did (wrong) while posting... During the day at work I use a Eudora mail client and at times an ssh session to the mailhost and pine. At home I use ssh and pine also. When creating a new thread in Eudora I usually just start a brand new message and from my address book enter plug at plug.blah.blah... in the To: field. All is well. But when using ssh/pine, because I have not set up an address book for pine, I sometimes just "reply to" a PLUG member's posting, erase the message body and the subject line and start off with what I *thought* was a "blank canvas." I did that last night, as it happens. However other headers are not erased, hence the threading woes of which I was unaware. So thanks for alerting me to the problem :-) Guess which address will be the first one entered in my pine address book! Cheers and apologies if others, too, were inconvenienced. Denis From leon at lostrealm.com Thu Jul 1 11:34:37 2004 From: leon at lostrealm.com (Leon Blackwell) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 11:34:37 +0800 Subject: [plug] netiquette and an apology! In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040701110940.02e08060@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040701110940.02e08060@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <20040701033437.GA6519@grail.lostrealm.com> On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 11:22:46AM +0800, Denis Brown wrote: > I sometimes just "reply to" a PLUG member's posting, erase the message > body and the subject line and start off with what I *thought* was a > "blank canvas." I did that last night, as it happens. However > other headers are not erased, hence the threading woes of which I was > unaware. If you switch to mutt ("real men use mutt" :) and put the following in your .muttrc: set edit_headers=yes you should find that you're able to view and edit your headers as part of the email. Now if you feel complled to rely to an email to start a new thread, or if you just want to create a new thread in the middle of another (when changing topic, for example), just be sure to delete to In-Reply-To: header line. Yes, I'm sure that you can do this in pine, but I've never liked pine. As an added bonus, something like this in your .vimrc should setup things ready to type your email (and with nice syntax highlighting for those headers): " For mutt " ai: auto indent " ts=2: 4 spaces for a tab " et: expand tabs to spaces " list: show whitespace stuff " tw=72: wrap at 72 chars " comments=nb:>: comments start with '> ' and may be nested au BufNewFile,BufRead /tmp/mutt* set ai ts=4 et list tw=72 comments=nb:> au BufNewFile,BufRead /tmp/mutt* normal /^$ au BufNewFile,BufRead /tmp/mutt* normal j syntax on So ends another exciting episode in "this is the way Leon does stuff, so it must be right" :) -- Leon Blackwell | A jury consists of twelve persons http://www.lostrealm.com/ | chosen to decide who has the better jabber:lionfire at lostrealm.com | lawyer. | -- Robert Frost From shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au Thu Jul 1 11:50:03 2004 From: shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au (Shayne O'Neill) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 11:50:03 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Hack, triplej and open source In-Reply-To: <200407010854.22076@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: I'm thinking those crazy kit porches with mad blown VW engines..... diy My brother drives a VW, and it amazes me that despite rumors to the contrary, the crazy thing is so damn cheap for parts. > Linux is more like a "Volkswagen"; the People's Car. Except much > better because you don't have to buy it. You can build it out of > free parts and it'll still run. > > -- > /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia > \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! > X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature > / \ and postings | to help me spread! > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Thu Jul 1 12:03:33 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 12:03:33 +0800 Subject: [plug] Emailing - gotchas Message-ID: <200407011203.33627@death.2.spammers> I spent a couple of hours getting splinters while scratching my head on this one... It's not Linux-specific, but illustrates a trap that could catch you if you're only thinking on the Linux-side. I write some software that accepts PCL-formatted output and transforms it to PDF for emailing to other parties. (GhostPCL does all the hard work!) It all works a treat until... Lookout! gets in the way. :-( The PDF was sent as an attachment using "nail". No reasonable mail reader I tried had any problem with that so I released for final testing. One user runs the process and has the document mailed to her; clicks on the attachment name in Lookout! and Acroread complains bitterly... won't grok the PDF. I had judiciously retained the intermediate, but not the PDF file but had a trace of the internal commands and arguments applied so repeated the same process on a command line; directing the result to my email address whereupon the required PDF appeared and I was able to view it properly under Linux with KMail and mutt. The original, offending attachment was emailed to me and Acroread wouldn't open in KMail either... The saved attachment was even the wrong size so I suspected that there may have been a user environment or permissions issue. After chasing down those possibilities, I arrived at dead ends. Fired up mutt, saved out the original "corrupted" attachment using mutt and was able to successfully view the attachment. So it was the MIME-handling in the reader that caused the problem. Lookout! had messed up the MIME when forwarding the original email with "corrupt" attachment which confused KMail but mutt had somehow untangled the mess. I hadn't named the PDF as *.pdf in the mailing wrapper, so nail made it an application/text attachment in the MIME header. I changed the mailing wrapper program to have the intermediate file with a pdf extension and "nail" then changed the MIME header to application/pdf. Even Lookout! then processed the resulting attachment as expected. Unfortunately, I can no longer use the mailing wrapper program for generic purposes; not without some changes to detect MIME type and rename the file before attaching ... -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au Thu Jul 1 12:03:23 2004 From: shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au (Shayne O'Neill) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 12:03:23 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] [OT-ish] OSX question In-Reply-To: <200407010854.22076@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: Off topic, but maybe some folks might have some ideas on this. I'm setting up a backup reigme for the OS/X machines in the office. We have on a linux server a 30gig external backup thingame which is served to mac's via afp (cant get nfs to work with the macs for some confounded reason, but thats ok, since afp is the macs native tounge I suppose). We are using silverkeeper as the backup software. Its rather nice bit of freeware (not o/source alas). Seems it kills the mac half way through. I'm hazarding a guess that it MIGHT be due to the mac wanting to back up the /dev or whatever. Does anyone know what files would be offlimit for a mac to touch? Also heres a dont do: mount the afp drive in the rc.boot file. It locks the damn thing up horribly. I guess it probably belongs in the netboot. Still cant really figure how to get it to mount drives at bootup. Any ideas on both problems? -- "the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 27, 2003 Shayne O'Neill. http://www.perthimc.asn.au From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Thu Jul 1 12:17:55 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 12:17:55 +0800 Subject: [plug] Emailing - gotchas In-Reply-To: <200407011203.33627@death.2.spammers> References: <200407011203.33627@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <40E39073.2020301@postnewspapers.com.au> Bernd Felsche wrote: > I hadn't named the PDF as *.pdf in the mailing wrapper, so nail made > it an application/text attachment in the MIME header. I changed the > mailing wrapper program to have the intermediate file with a pdf > extension and "nail" then changed the MIME header to > application/pdf. > > Even Lookout! then processed the resulting attachment as expected. If you were sending PDF files as text/plain then I suspect LookOut! was in fact in the right. Did you try any other mail clients under Windows to see if they also had the problem? If I understand correctly, they should have. I'd say that mutt etc worked fine because text/plain only matters when you're communicating between platforms that use different line endings. Sending a PDF from Windows as text/plain and opening it on Linux should probably have shown the same problem. The fix, as you found, is to use the correct MIME type so that MTAs and MUAs won't attempt to translate line endings. Even better, Base64-encode your attachments so that line-ending translation won't matter. A simple example that uses the email package for Python (and ReportLab to generate the PDF - feel free to replace that bit with loading a PDF from a file instead) is attached. -- Craig Ringer -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: pdfmail_test.py URL: From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Thu Jul 1 12:58:40 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 12:58:40 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] OSX question In-Reply-To: References: <200407010854.22076@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <20040701045840.GD6180@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message on Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 12:03:23PM +0800, Shayne O'Neill wrote: > Seems it kills the mac half way through. I'm hazarding a guess that it > MIGHT be due to the mac wanting to back up the /dev or whatever. Does > anyone know what files would be offlimit for a mac to touch? In addition to /dev (which, well, you probably /do/ want to back up), don't forget to skip /private/var/vm which contains your large virtual memory files :-) > Also heres a dont do: mount the afp drive in the rc.boot file. It locks > the damn thing up horribly. I guess it probably belongs in the netboot. > Still cant really figure how to get it to mount drives at bootup. (I don't know about mount_afp specifically, perhaps you can added an AFP volume to fstab in NetInfo. But more generally...) Maybe look at adding a directory to /Library/StartupItems. There should be docs on Apple's website (though might be at http://developer.apple.com). You basically make your own shell script (generally very simple if you include the helper functions from /etc/rc.common) and specify startup dependencies (e.g. you would want to specify networking as a requirement for mounting your AFP volume). From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Thu Jul 1 13:15:14 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 13:15:14 +0800 Subject: [plug] Emailing - gotchas In-Reply-To: <40E39073.2020301@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <200407011203.33627@death.2.spammers> <40E39073.2020301@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <200407011315.14159@death.2.spammers> On Thursday 01 July 2004 12:17, Craig Ringer wrote: > Bernd Felsche wrote: > > I hadn't named the PDF as *.pdf in the mailing wrapper, so nail made > > it an application/text attachment in the MIME header. I changed the > > mailing wrapper program to have the intermediate file with a pdf > > extension and "nail" then changed the MIME header to > > application/pdf. > > > > Even Lookout! then processed the resulting attachment as expected. > If you were sending PDF files as text/plain then I suspect LookOut! was > in fact in the right. Did you try any other mail clients under Windows > to see if they also had the problem? If I understand correctly, they > should have. I was keeping my fingers crossed that "nail" would determine the correct document type :-) It didn't. It used the same dumb file type determination method as Windows. > Even better, Base64-encode your attachments so that line-ending > translation won't matter. A simple example that uses the email package > for Python (and ReportLab to generate the PDF - feel free to replace > that bit with loading a PDF from a file instead) is attached. Thanks for the sample Python... it's still pretty much a read-only language for me. It assumes that the attached is a PDF so it doesn't save me any work.... I know that file -i gives me about the MIME type. (Doffs hat) But there was no way I could provide that as an argument to "nail" or any other command-line based MUA. "MimeTypes" appears to do something usefully similar. But I'm not sure if it actually reads the file to determine content type. I'll probably play with a re-write of the mailing wrapper in Python over the weekend. There's not enough blood on the keyboard yet. Be prepared to scoff at my feeble effort! -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Thu Jul 1 13:17:31 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 13:17:31 +0800 Subject: [plug] Emailing - gotchas In-Reply-To: <200407011203.33627@death.2.spammers> References: <200407011203.33627@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <20040701051731.GE6180@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Hi, In message <200407011203.33627 at death.2.spammers> on Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 12:03:33PM +0800, Bernd Felsche wrote: > I write some software that accepts PCL-formatted output and > transforms it to PDF for emailing to other parties. [...] > Unfortunately, I can no longer use the mailing wrapper program for > generic purposes; not without some changes to detect MIME type and > rename the file before attaching ... I'm guessing that the following suggestions are ruled out by your circumstances, but things that popped into my head while reading this were: - Couldn't you have your software write to an output file (or rename its output file) with a name that ends in .pdf in the first place, before reaching the mail wrapper? Then the mail wrapper would work fine? - Alternatively, if you were to save the PDF files in binary format, without changing their names, I'm guessing that nail should send it as application/octet-stream (instead of text/plain). Adobe even has a comment in their PDF Reference: "...it is recommended that the header line be immediately followed by a comment line containing at least four binary characters --- that is, characters whose codes are 128 or greater. This will ensure proper behaviour of file transfer applications that inspect data near the beginning of a file to determine whether to treat the file's contents as text or as binary." From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Thu Jul 1 13:50:31 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 13:50:31 +0800 Subject: [plug] Emailing - gotchas In-Reply-To: <20040701051731.GE6180@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <200407011203.33627@death.2.spammers> <20040701051731.GE6180@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <200407011350.31877@death.2.spammers> On Thursday 01 July 2004 13:17, James Devenish wrote: > In message <200407011203.33627 at death.2.spammers> > on Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 12:03:33PM +0800, Bernd Felsche wrote: > > I write some software that accepts PCL-formatted output and > > transforms it to PDF for emailing to other parties. > > Unfortunately, I can no longer use the mailing wrapper program for > > generic purposes; not without some changes to detect MIME type and > > rename the file before attaching ... > I'm guessing that the following suggestions are ruled out by your > circumstances, but things that popped into my head while reading this > were: > - Couldn't you have your software write to an output file (or rename > its output file) with a name that ends in .pdf in the first place, > before reaching the mail wrapper? Then the mail wrapper would work > fine? In this case; no. The mailing wrapper mails the standard input as an attachment to the address(es) designated on the command line. The GhostPCL does indeed create a temporary PDF, but the nature of the application flow is that the delivery of the document takes place in a pipeline. This project, FWIW, is an output multiplexer that behaves in the same way as a "printer" (lpr -equivalent command) as far as the main enterprise applications are concerned. Traditionally, the output contains many individual documents that are printed to the same destination - then folded and placed in envelopes before physical mailing. This project is to; for each document type and addressee, either print, email or fax the document according to each addressee's preference; with the option of different handling for "re-prints". Other than a few teething problems, the implementation has been remarkably straight-forward; even the PCL formatted output that's done by a proprietary application (Formtrap) getting mangled into PDF. I started off writing a lot of code and complicated application over several weeks; then I lost the lot in a "hard disc failure" (minor/major oops on my part). The customer was screaming for it, so I backed off a few steps from what I was doing and realized how to do it in a handful of sub-hundred-line programs; written in an afternoon. The mailing wrapper is but one delivery method. Others are to send to fax; to print on any accessible printer, or any other "method" that takes an arbitrary input, transforms it to a suitable output format for that delivery method (and possibly destination) and then initiates delivery. "Simple" program; complex function. It's simple because it's based on the Unix paradigm of tool-building. Re-use of existing building blocks. I try to remain consistent with that. > - Alternatively, if you were to save the PDF files in binary format, > without changing their names, I'm guessing that nail should send it > as application/octet-stream (instead of text/plain). Adobe even has a > comment in their PDF Reference: PDF is sacred territory as far as I'm concerned. I don't dabble with the output unless it's unavoidable. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Thu Jul 1 14:45:11 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 14:45:11 +0800 Subject: [plug] Emailing - gotchas In-Reply-To: <200407011315.14159@death.2.spammers> References: <200407011203.33627@death.2.spammers> <40E39073.2020301@postnewspapers.com.au> <200407011315.14159@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <20040701064511.GC24100@patrick.wattle.id.au> Bernd Felsche wrote: > Thanks for the sample Python... it's still pretty much a read-only > language for me. Better than being write-only! :-P Cameron. From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Thu Jul 1 14:48:10 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 14:48:10 +0800 Subject: [plug] Emailing - gotchas In-Reply-To: <200407011315.14159@death.2.spammers> References: <200407011203.33627@death.2.spammers> <40E39073.2020301@postnewspapers.com.au> <200407011315.14159@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <40E3B3AA.5050803@postnewspapers.com.au> Bernd Felsche wrote: > It assumes that the attached is a PDF so it doesn't save me any > work.... I know that > file -i > gives me about the MIME type. (Doffs hat) But there was no way I > could provide that as an argument to "nail" or any other > command-line based MUA. OK. > "MimeTypes" appears to do something usefully similar. But I'm not > sure if it actually reads the file to determine content type. If all you're worried about is PDFs, then: def ispdf(filepath): return file(filepath).read(4) == '%PDF' should do the trick nicely. It's not hard to generalise that to handle any other format kind enough to use magic numbers or header codes. -- Craig Ringer From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Thu Jul 1 15:04:52 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 15:04:52 +0800 Subject: [plug] *** Help wanted: Installfest flyer design *** In-Reply-To: <20040630163419.GA24100@patrick.wattle.id.au> References: <20040630163419.GA24100@patrick.wattle.id.au> Message-ID: <20040701070452.GA28016@patrick.wattle.id.au> Cameron Patrick wrote: > [Installfest propaganda] > The current (ugly) prototype can be found at: Leon has come up with a much nicer flyer. The Open Office file can be found on my PLUG web space: (~160kb) http://plug.linux.org.au/~cameron/installfest-flyer-leon-1.sxw And there is a 720kb PDF file too, for those without OO: http://plug.linux.org.au/~cameron/installfest-flyer-leon-1-colour.pdf Cheers, Cameron. From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Thu Jul 1 15:21:45 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 15:21:45 +0800 Subject: [plug] *** Help wanted: Installfest flyer design *** In-Reply-To: <20040701070452.GA28016@patrick.wattle.id.au> References: <20040630163419.GA24100@patrick.wattle.id.au> <20040701070452.GA28016@patrick.wattle.id.au> Message-ID: <200407011521.45858@death.2.spammers> On Thursday 01 July 2004 15:04, Cameron Patrick wrote: > Cameron Patrick wrote: > > [Installfest propaganda] > > The current (ugly) prototype can be found at: > > Leon has come up with a much nicer flyer. The Open Office file can be > found on my PLUG web space: (~160kb) > > http://plug.linux.org.au/~cameron/installfest-flyer-leon-1.sxw 403 Forbidden 15:19:40 ERROR 403: Forbidden. Read permissions??? > And there is a 720kb PDF file too, for those without OO: > > http://plug.linux.org.au/~cameron/installfest-flyer-leon-1-colour.pdf That one is OK. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Thu Jul 1 15:45:07 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 15:45:07 +0800 Subject: [plug] *** Help wanted: Installfest flyer design *** In-Reply-To: <200407011521.45858@death.2.spammers> References: <20040630163419.GA24100@patrick.wattle.id.au> <20040701070452.GA28016@patrick.wattle.id.au> <200407011521.45858@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <20040701074507.GC28016@patrick.wattle.id.au> Bernd Felsche wrote: > > http://plug.linux.org.au/~cameron/installfest-flyer-leon-1.sxw > > 403 Forbidden > 15:19:40 ERROR 403: Forbidden. > > Read permissions??? Ooops, it started life as a saved e-mail attachment which mutt sensibly made readable only to me. SCP decided to keep it that way :-( Fixed now. Cameron. From michael.j.hunt at usa.net Thu Jul 1 15:48:29 2004 From: michael.j.hunt at usa.net (Michael Hunt) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 15:48:29 +0800 Subject: [plug] VW parts was: Hack, triplej and open source In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1088668109.13103.33.camel@gilgal> On Thu, 2004-07-01 at 11:50 +0800, Shayne O'Neill wrote: > I'm thinking those crazy kit porches with mad blown VW engines..... > > diy > > My brother drives a VW, and it amazes me that despite rumors to the > contrary, the crazy thing is so damn cheap for parts. This was in reply to Bernd's comment: > > Linux is more like a "Volkswagen"; the People's Car. Except much > > better because you don't have to buy it. You can build it out of > > free parts and it'll still run. Shayne, VW parts are both cheap and expensive depending on weather you buy the Brazilian, Mexican, South African, US after market gear or the Genuine made in Germany VW gear. I recently had some brake work done on my 66 Beetle and had a cork acting as the stopper for the brake fluid reservoir. (Whenever I think about it, it always evokes images of a Simpson's episode where Bart goes to France as an exchange student and then is duped into putting brake fluid in to the 'cheap' wine in order to speed up fermentation *g*). My friend (who did the work for me) offered to price up a replacement reservoir that had a proper sealing cap and discovered that the Genuine VW part cost over $200 !!! (That's right, $200 for a piece of plastic that holds about 200ml of brake fluid and has a little hose connector at the bottom for the brake hose to connect to). And to top it off it didn't even come with a proper lid, just a little rubber stopper that you pushed into place when the thing was full. The after market part cost $25 and has a proper sealed lid. Have a guess which one I went for then !!! To bring this post back on topic I'm trying to figure out a way I can log (preferably to my Linux laptop) my engines oil temperature (say 30 sec intervals) over a long journey (say an 1 and half hours). VW motors are supposed to run optimally at an oil temp of about 125 C, but I think mine is running hotter. (At the moment I'm not exactly sure what the temp is as I have no oil temp gauge). As a little project I was thinking I might try and rig up a temp probe and do something like lm-sensors for my motor (what happens to motor temp when I am doing 100 down the freeway) and then try and work on some additional ways of cooling it. Real time stats would be nice to have to see how planned cooling changes affect the motor when the car is moving or at idle. (Beetle motors are air-cooled so I can't just slap on a bigger radiator or flush the system). Anyhow anyone who has some suggestions I would be interested in hearing from you. My only problem would be that unless I can do this for a few dollars the project is most likely to remain a bit of a dream. Michael Hunt From shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au Thu Jul 1 16:05:55 2004 From: shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au (Shayne O'Neill) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 16:05:55 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] VW parts was: Hack, triplej and open source In-Reply-To: <1088668109.13103.33.camel@gilgal> Message-ID: > To bring this post back on topic I'm trying to figure out a way I can > log (preferably to my Linux laptop) my engines oil temperature (say 30 > sec intervals) over a long journey (say an 1 and half hours). VW motors > are supposed to run optimally at an oil temp of about 125 C, but I think > mine is running hotter. (At the moment I'm not exactly sure what the > temp is as I have no oil temp gauge). As a little project I was thinking > I might try and rig up a temp probe and do something like lm-sensors for > my motor (what happens to motor temp when I am doing 100 down the > freeway) and then try and work on some additional ways of cooling it. > Real time stats would be nice to have to see how planned cooling changes > affect the motor when the car is moving or at idle. (Beetle motors are > air-cooled so I can't just slap on a bigger radiator or flush the > system). Parallax have a little unit called a "basic stamp", which essentially is a little pic that can be programmed in a simple basic sorta manner. Now , if you combine it with a ADC converter and some sort of temperature probe thingee (maybe a dick smith kit or something), you can bet the pic to output an RS232 signal that can be captured on the linux box and turned into a display of some sort. There may even be rs232 thermometers out there.... > > Anyhow anyone who has some suggestions I would be interested in hearing > from you. My only problem would be that unless I can do this for a few > dollars the project is most likely to remain a bit of a dream. > > Michael Hunt > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Thu Jul 1 16:09:05 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 16:09:05 +0800 Subject: [plug] VW parts was: Hack, triplej and open source In-Reply-To: <1088668109.13103.33.camel@gilgal> References: <1088668109.13103.33.camel@gilgal> Message-ID: <200407011609.05343@death.2.spammers> On Thursday 01 July 2004 15:48, Michael Hunt wrote: > On Thu, 2004-07-01 at 11:50 +0800, Shayne O'Neill wrote: > > I'm thinking those crazy kit porches with mad blown VW engines..... > > My brother drives a VW, and it amazes me that despite rumors to the > > contrary, the crazy thing is so damn cheap for parts. > This was in reply to Bernd's comment: > > > Linux is more like a "Volkswagen"; the People's Car. Except much > > > better because you don't have to buy it. You can build it out of > > > free parts and it'll still run. > VW parts are both cheap and expensive depending on weather you buy the > Brazilian, Mexican, South African, US after market gear or the Genuine > made in Germany VW gear. Nice to have competitive seconds and third sources... with cars as with computers. I'd dread to think how bad Linux would be if there were only one distro. Probably be as bad as OpenSewer. > I recently had some brake work done on my 66 Beetle and had a cork > acting as the stopper for the brake fluid reservoir. ... > ... My friend (who did the work for me) offered to price up a > replacement reservoir that had a proper sealing cap and discovered > that the Genuine VW part cost over $200 !!! (That's right, $200 > for a piece of plastic that holds about 200ml of brake fluid and > has a little hose connector at the bottom for the brake hose to > connect to). And to top it off it Now you know why they call the official parts sales outlets "Pharmacies" :-) > didn't even come with a proper lid, just a little rubber stopper that > you pushed into place when the thing was full. The after market part > cost $25 and has a proper sealed lid. Have a guess which one I went for > then !!! > To bring this post back on topic I'm trying to figure out a way I > can log (preferably to my Linux laptop) my engines oil temperature > (say 30 sec intervals) over a long journey (say an 1 and half > hours). VW motors are supposed to run optimally at an oil temp of > about 125 C, but I think mine is running hotter. (At the moment NTC sensor, stuck to the end of the dip-stick or the sump-plug. Connect up to a small micro-controller like an Atmel ATTiny2313 (or smaller if you want to bit-bang UART) and shout serial at whatever's listening. The ?C can handle the calibration, linearisation and conversion of sensor resistance to temperature. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From michael.j.hunt at usa.net Thu Jul 1 16:22:58 2004 From: michael.j.hunt at usa.net (Michael Hunt) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 16:22:58 +0800 Subject: [plug] VW parts was: Hack, triplej and open source In-Reply-To: <200407011609.05343@death.2.spammers> References: <1088668109.13103.33.camel@gilgal> <200407011609.05343@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <1088670178.13103.36.camel@gilgal> On Thu, 2004-07-01 at 16:09 +0800, Bernd Felsche wrote in reply to Michael Hunt's earlier post: > > To bring this post back on topic I'm trying to figure out a way I > > can log (preferably to my Linux laptop) my engines oil temperature > > (say 30 sec intervals) over a long journey (say an 1 and half > > hours). VW motors are supposed to run optimally at an oil temp of > > about 125 C, but I think mine is running hotter. (At the moment > > NTC sensor, stuck to the end of the dip-stick or the sump-plug. > Connect up to a small micro-controller like an Atmel ATTiny2313 (or > smaller if you want to bit-bang UART) and shout serial at whatever's > listening. The ?C can handle the calibration, linearisation and > conversion of sensor resistance to temperature. Sounds good. Do you know what a rough cost / local source might be ??? Michael Hunt From harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au Thu Jul 1 16:55:16 2004 From: harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au (Harry) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 16:55:16 +0800 Subject: [OT] Engine temp sensing (was: Re: [plug] VW parts was: Hack, triplej and open source) In-Reply-To: <1088668109.13103.33.camel@gilgal> References: <1088668109.13103.33.camel@gilgal> Message-ID: <20040701165516.02ee3598.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 15:48:29 +0800 Michael Hunt wrote: > To bring this post back on topic I'm trying to figure out a way I can > log (preferably to my Linux laptop) my engines oil temperature (say 30 > sec intervals) over a long journey (say an 1 and half hours). VW motors > are supposed to run optimally at an oil temp of about 125 C, but I think > mine is running hotter. (At the moment I'm not exactly sure what the > temp is as I have no oil temp gauge). I know I'm letting the side down here but what about a real time optically coupled South American aftermarket oil guage with adaptive sampling rate (basically when you glance at it) ? ;-P > As a little project I was thinking I might try and rig up a temp probe Here's the rub. You will need a sensor that goes to a bit more than 125C and most of the little i2c temperature sensing chips won't hack the temperatures you are running in the VW engine environs. A thermocouple or similar high temp sensor is probably what you need. These can have interesting non-linear behaviour; all fixable with some software calibration which you could achieve using an existing temperature guage .. Um .. try instead looking at the dallas semi data (now part of maxim). IIRC they have little devices to interface things like thermocouples to the i2c buss with on-board calibration. Or maybe Analog Devices. http://www.maxim-ic.com/ http://www.analog.com/ *looks* http://www.maxim-ic.com/products/sensors/thermocouples.cfm Hmm. No they have SPI and pulse width modulated output; not i2c. You'll need a little PIC or similar MCU to convert one to the other or SPI to RS-232 is probably easiest so you can just grab the data through your serial port. Make the PIC spit a sample ever 30 seconds or whatever and .. .. in linux: $ stty -echo < /dev/ttyS0 (set baud rate and things here too) $ logger -t vw_oil < /dev/ttyS0 So each sample is time stamped and stored in syslog .. too easy. CPAN has examples for using Parse::Syslog to fetch your vw_oil lines from syslog. You will need: apt-get install libparse-syslog-perl Data acquisition for fun and profit and the good oil on the VW engine :-) All the best Harry -- Are you a computer angel? http://www.computerangels.org.au/ From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Thu Jul 1 17:40:46 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 17:40:46 +0800 Subject: [plug] Linux real-world measurement. In-Reply-To: <1088670178.13103.36.camel@gilgal> References: <200407011609.05343@death.2.spammers> <1088670178.13103.36.camel@gilgal> Message-ID: <200407011740.46928@death.2.spammers> On Thursday 01 July 2004 16:22, Michael Hunt wrote: > On Thu, 2004-07-01 at 16:09 +0800, Bernd Felsche wrote in reply to > Michael Hunt's earlier post: > > > To bring this post back on topic I'm trying to figure out a way I > > > can log (preferably to my Linux laptop) my engines oil temperature > > > (say 30 sec intervals) over a long journey (say an 1 and half > > > hours). VW motors are supposed to run optimally at an oil temp of > > > about 125 C, but I think mine is running hotter. (At the moment > > > > NTC sensor, stuck to the end of the dip-stick or the sump-plug. > > Connect up to a small micro-controller like an Atmel ATTiny2313 (or > > smaller if you want to bit-bang UART) and shout serial at whatever's > > listening. The ?C can handle the calibration, linearisation and > > conversion of sensor resistance to temperature. > Sounds good. Do you know what a rough cost / local source might be ??? Rough cost; about $50 to $100 if you're hardware-handy. Budget $15 for the ?C which has in-built ADC and UART. PSU doesn't have to be fantastic as there's "12V" available; just a linear regulator and trans-sorb in addition to the usual stuff. If you're not connecting to a tolerant "RS-232" port then a driver chip is recommended. Metal box and connectors will probably be the highest-cost components. I erred in component selection.. the ATTiny2313 won't do ADC... the ATTiny15L is the next-best fit with 4 ADC inputs, but no UART. The latter can be done in software so no problem there... There's a gcc compiler for the AVR. A programmer that's driven off a parallel port can be made from cheap parts (<$30) for flashing the device if you don't want to shell out about $150 for a development kit. Cadsoft Eagle (free for non-profit) will help with PCB layout under Linux. Or a simple gadget like that can be built on Veroboard. These costs don't include your programming and hardware hacking time! Dontronics carries the ATTiny15L - at about $11 a pop. NTC thermistors are about $1 from Jaycar. Operating range is typically up to 125C. An alarm if you exceed this by much for a minute or more would be advisable, least of all to preserve the thermistor, but to save the oil from breakdown! If it really bothers you that the thermistor is at the top of its range when the oil is at the top of its range, then you can splash out on a more-sophisticated type. At the Linux end, just read the data packets; log and perhaps draw a pretty graph; with RRDtool and friends. Just be aware that unless you have a real-time priority on the Linux side, it's possible to get "skew" in the times of the samples. It could be several indeterminate_ seconds between a packet being sent to the laptop, and the laptop actually reading and processing the data. Should this all appear a bit daunting; I've seen a few sub-$100 digital multimeters with RS232 port, but you'd still have to add your bits for the temperature probe. Of course, the ?C has more flexibility in that you can connect it to the ignition system with a few more passive components, change the firmware and measure/log engine speed as well. Which may be useful to figure out why the engine gets hot. If that doesn't tell you enough, add a few mechanical bits to the transmission casing and get vehicle speed from a Hall sensor's pulsing. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From oscarfish at westnet.com.au Thu Jul 1 18:02:13 2004 From: oscarfish at westnet.com.au (Aesop Beetlebum) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 18:02:13 +0800 Subject: [plug] Dude, where is my HD space gone? Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.1.20040701174728.01da3ec0@mail.westnet.com.au> Howdy all, Bit of a query to the community regarding a certain phenomenon I am witnessing regarding a 120GB HD, which formats as ext3 to 111GB useable space and is 100% full at 105GB...I am thinking maybe a good defrag, but there seems to be little in the way of positive public opinion on such tools for ext3 partitions. My solution will be to empty the drive, reformat and copy back. But am interested in why it is, and what is causing this. Any Ideas? Ambrose. From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Thu Jul 1 18:08:42 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 18:08:42 +0800 Subject: [plug] Dude, where is my HD space gone? In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.1.20040701174728.01da3ec0@mail.westnet.com.au> References: <6.0.3.0.1.20040701174728.01da3ec0@mail.westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <40E3E2AA.1040100@postnewspapers.com.au> Aesop Beetlebum wrote: > Bit of a query to the community regarding a certain phenomenon I am > witnessing regarding a 120GB HD, which formats as ext3 to 111GB useable > space and is 100% full at 105GB That looks a bit like the 5% superuser reserved space on ext2/3 volumes. "man tune2fs" for more info. If I'm right, you'll still be able to create files if you do it as root. -- Craig Ringer From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Thu Jul 1 18:08:19 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 18:08:19 +0800 Subject: [plug] Dude, where is my HD space gone? In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.1.20040701174728.01da3ec0@mail.westnet.com.au> References: <6.0.3.0.1.20040701174728.01da3ec0@mail.westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <20040701100819.GA16567@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <6.0.3.0.1.20040701174728.01da3ec0 at mail.westnet.com.au> on Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 06:02:13PM +0800, Aesop Beetlebum wrote: > Bit of a query to the community regarding a certain phenomenon I am > witnessing regarding a 120GB HD, which formats as ext3 to 111GB useable > space and is 100% full at 105GB... 111GB * 95% = 105MB Basically, I suspect that 5% of your hard drive space has been reserved for the 'root' user. This enables you to come in and fix things up even if non-root users have accidently caused the drive to "run out" of disk space entirely. So, it's your built-in safety margin. Here is an excerpt from the mke2fs manual: -m reserved-blocks-percentage Specify the percentage of the filesystem blocks reserved for the super-user. This value defaults to 5%. From garbuck at westnet.com.au Thu Jul 1 18:28:11 2004 From: garbuck at westnet.com.au (Garry) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 18:28:11 +0800 Subject: [plug] Dude, where is my HD space gone? In-Reply-To: <20040701100819.GA16567@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <6.0.3.0.1.20040701174728.01da3ec0@mail.westnet.com.au> <20040701100819.GA16567@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <40E3E73B.5030605@westnet.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 | | 111GB * 95% = 105MB | Do you reckon? 8^)== Garry - -- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFA4+c7vdH9DANniC8RAnr2AJ0dnqXi0nfvTKGXWfaCTZ2H6taV+ACgiv+6 q0qNwT7KDu9f+2rvS8dvMow= =R4m/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au Thu Jul 1 18:33:02 2004 From: shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au (Shayne O'Neill) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 18:33:02 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] centos Message-ID: http://www.centos.org/ Aparently its Red Hat Enterprise Linux , but recompiled from sources and free (Ie without the support contract). Anyone played with this? -- "the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 27, 2003 Shayne O'Neill. http://www.perthimc.asn.au From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Thu Jul 1 18:33:41 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 18:33:41 +0800 Subject: [plug] Dude, where is my HD space gone? In-Reply-To: <40E3E73B.5030605@westnet.com.au> References: <6.0.3.0.1.20040701174728.01da3ec0@mail.westnet.com.au> <20040701100819.GA16567@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <40E3E73B.5030605@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <20040701103341.GA17061@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <40E3E73B.5030605 at westnet.com.au> on Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 06:28:11PM +0800, Garry wrote: > | 111GB * 95% = 105MB > Do you reckon? > 8^)== One's metric, the other's imperial. I'm at least as accurate as NASA ;-) From garbuck at westnet.com.au Thu Jul 1 18:45:29 2004 From: garbuck at westnet.com.au (Garry) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 18:45:29 +0800 Subject: [plug] Dude, where is my HD space gone? In-Reply-To: <20040701103341.GA17061@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <6.0.3.0.1.20040701174728.01da3ec0@mail.westnet.com.au> <20040701100819.GA16567@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <40E3E73B.5030605@westnet.com.au> <20040701103341.GA17061@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <40E3EB49.1090006@westnet.com.au> James Devenish wrote: > In message <40E3E73B.5030605 at westnet.com.au> > on Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 06:28:11PM +0800, Garry wrote: > >>| 111GB * 95% = 105MB >>Do you reckon? >>8^)== > > > One's metric, the other's imperial. I'm at least as accurate as NASA ;-) > Oh.. I stand ummmm corrected... I think. ;^)== Garry -- From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Thu Jul 1 18:50:27 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 18:50:27 +0800 Subject: [plug] Dude, where is my HD space gone? In-Reply-To: <40E3EB49.1090006@westnet.com.au> (garbuck@westnet.com.au's message of "Thu, 01 Jul 2004 18:45:29 +0800") References: <6.0.3.0.1.20040701174728.01da3ec0@mail.westnet.com.au> <20040701100819.GA16567@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <40E3E73B.5030605@westnet.com.au> <20040701103341.GA17061@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <40E3EB49.1090006@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <87lli4t30s.fsf@erdos.home> Garry writes: >>>| 111GB * 95% = 105MB >>>Do you reckon? >>>8^)== >> One's metric, the other's imperial. I'm at least as accurate as NASA >> ;-) >> > Oh.. I stand ummmm corrected... I think. ;^)== After all, James should know -- he's English :-P Cameron. From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Thu Jul 1 19:05:32 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 19:05:32 +0800 Subject: [OT -- no remaining Linux content] [plug] Dude, where is my HD space gone? In-Reply-To: <87lli4t30s.fsf@erdos.home> References: <6.0.3.0.1.20040701174728.01da3ec0@mail.westnet.com.au> <20040701100819.GA16567@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <40E3E73B.5030605@westnet.com.au> <20040701103341.GA17061@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <40E3EB49.1090006@westnet.com.au> <87lli4t30s.fsf@erdos.home> Message-ID: <20040701110532.GA17435@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <40E3E73B.5030605 at westnet.com.au> on Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 06:28:11PM +0800, Garry wrote: > | 111GB * 95% = 105MB > Do you reckon? (Aside from the factor of 1024...) I guess I /should/ have written 111GiB * 95% = 105MiB In message <87lli4t30s.fsf at erdos.home> on Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 06:50:27PM +0800, Cameron Patrick wrote: > Garry writes: > >> One's metric, the other's imperial. I'm at least as accurate as NASA > > Oh.. I stand ummmm corrected... I think. ;^)== > After all, James should know -- he's English :-P Cameron, isn't it rude to "out" people in public ;-) And anyway, I still had to front up to the Department of Immigration, Multicultural and Indigenous Affairs last week despite being a permanent resident for almost 23 years and citizen for about six. PS. If "our" Ari Finander is reading this: are you the Ari who also became a citizen in 1998? (Ceremony at Subiaco: your name seems to match.) From oscarfish at westnet.com.au Thu Jul 1 19:26:35 2004 From: oscarfish at westnet.com.au (Aesop Beetlebum) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 19:26:35 +0800 Subject: [plug] Dude, where is my HD space gone? In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.1.20040701174728.01da3ec0@mail.westnet.com.au> References: <6.0.3.0.1.20040701174728.01da3ec0@mail.westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.1.20040701192414.01f6dfc0@mail.westnet.com.au> Alrighty then. Will take the 5% root allocation explanation. I now remember reading about it some time ago [sheepish grin]. Thanks All. Ambrose. At 06:02 PM 7/1/2004, you wrote: >Howdy all, > Bit of a query to the community regarding a certain phenomenon I > am witnessing regarding a 120GB HD, which formats as ext3 to 111GB > useable space and is 100% full at 105GB...I am thinking maybe a good > defrag, but there seems to be little in the way of positive public > opinion on such tools for ext3 partitions. My solution will be to empty > the drive, reformat and copy back. But am interested in why it is, and > what is causing this. > >Any Ideas? > >Ambrose. > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au From caston at arach.net.au Thu Jul 1 21:53:08 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 21:53:08 +0800 Subject: [plug] Dude, where is my HD space gone? In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.1.20040701192414.01f6dfc0@mail.westnet.com.au> References: <6.0.3.0.1.20040701174728.01da3ec0@mail.westnet.com.au> <6.0.3.0.1.20040701192414.01f6dfc0@mail.westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <1088689988.2955.9.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2004-07-01 at 19:26, Aesop Beetlebum wrote: > Alrighty then. > > Will take the 5% root allocation explanation. I now remember reading about > it some time ago [sheepish grin]. > > Thanks All. > Ambrose. > Yeah I have to be really careful when selling harddrives. I tell the customer that they won't get the full 120 gig for various technical reasons. Although it does look bad to be missing several gigabyte from a harddrive it's just the reality of the situation. There's nothing worse than someone wanting their money back on something that is perfectly good and can't be RA'd. regards, Chris > > > At 06:02 PM 7/1/2004, you wrote: > >Howdy all, > > Bit of a query to the community regarding a certain phenomenon I > > am witnessing regarding a 120GB HD, which formats as ext3 to 111GB > > useable space and is 100% full at 105GB...I am thinking maybe a good > > defrag, but there seems to be little in the way of positive public > > opinion on such tools for ext3 partitions. My solution will be to empty > > the drive, reformat and copy back. But am interested in why it is, and > > what is causing this. > > > >Any Ideas? > > > >Ambrose. > > > >_______________________________________________ > >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Thu Jul 1 22:11:00 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 22:11:00 +0800 Subject: [plug] Dude, where is my HD space gone? In-Reply-To: <1088689988.2955.9.camel@localhost> (Chris Caston's message of "Thu, 01 Jul 2004 21:53:08 +0800") References: <6.0.3.0.1.20040701174728.01da3ec0@mail.westnet.com.au> <6.0.3.0.1.20040701192414.01f6dfc0@mail.westnet.com.au> <1088689988.2955.9.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <87n02jstqj.fsf@euclid.home> Chris Caston writes: >> Will take the 5% root allocation explanation. I now remember reading about > > Yeah I have to be really careful when selling harddrives. I tell the > customer that they won't get the full 120 gig for various technical > reasons. There's several things going on there, beyond the 5% reserved blocks mentioned above. * Hard disc manufacturer gigabytes are 10^9 bytes (1000000000 bytes) whereas operating system gigabytes are 2^30 bytes (1073741824 bytes) so you really get 0.93 GiB per GB. (Using the pedantically accurate SI prefixes which no-one actually uses: GiB "gibibytes" for 2^30 and GB "gigabytes" for 10^9. The people who use these prefixes consistently probably also pronounce "giga" as "jai:ger" and believe that they'll see AI smarter than humans in their lifetime.) * Some overhead is taken up by the filesytem for keeping track of which files are stored where on the disc and other "book-keeping" data. This is why a filesytem has slightly fewer available blocks than the partition that it lives on (looks like approx 200mb on an 11gb ext3 filesystem on my machine). * Some filesystems (including ext2/3) also reserve some amount of space for root's use only, as discussed in this thread. * As well as having a limited amount of space, most filesystems also have a finite number of inodes (files) that they can store too. Reiserfs is an exception here. You can see this with df -i: Filesystem Inodes IUsed IFree IUse% Mounted on /dev/hda6 4294967295 0 4294967295 0% Cheers, Cameron. From bowden at iinet.net.au Thu Jul 1 22:34:53 2004 From: bowden at iinet.net.au (Tim Bowden) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 22:34:53 +0800 Subject: [plug] DVD players Message-ID: <1088692493.2638.5.camel@localhost> Hi all, Just a quick question to those who follow the multimedia scene on Linux- what is the best DVD player these days and where can I get .deb's for it? There are plenty of comparisons on the web, but mostly they are out of date due to the rapid rate of development that is going on in this area. Thanks, Tim From caston at arach.net.au Thu Jul 1 22:54:03 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 22:54:03 +0800 Subject: [plug] DVD players In-Reply-To: <1088692493.2638.5.camel@localhost> References: <1088692493.2638.5.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1088693642.2955.12.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2004-07-01 at 22:34, Tim Bowden wrote: > Hi all, > > Just a quick question to those who follow the multimedia scene on Linux- > what is the best DVD player these days and where can I get .deb's for > it? Tim, I'd suggest using vlc and its libdvdcss. The website is http://www.videolan.org regards, Chris Caston > There are plenty of comparisons on the web, but mostly they are out > of date due to the rapid rate of development that is going on in this > area. > > Thanks, > Tim > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Fri Jul 2 00:25:26 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 00:25:26 +0800 Subject: [plug] MIME Types by file contents In-Reply-To: <40E3B3AA.5050803@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <200407011203.33627@death.2.spammers> <200407011315.14159@death.2.spammers> <40E3B3AA.5050803@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <200407020025.26027@death.2.spammers> On Thursday 01 July 2004 14:48, Craig Ringer wrote: > Bernd Felsche wrote: > If all you're worried about is PDFs, then: > > def ispdf(filepath): > return file(filepath).read(4) == '%PDF' > > should do the trick nicely. It's not hard to generalise that to handle > any other format kind enough to use magic numbers or header codes. The Linux/Unix "file" command already does that so to save re-implementing it as a whole, I've cobbled together the attached Python function and test program. The list returned by the function contains not only a maintype and subtype, but also stuff that might lend itself to smarter encoding overall... but I'm not too fussed right now. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mtype.py Type: text/x-python Size: 737 bytes Desc: not available URL: From billk at iinet.net.au Fri Jul 2 06:20:42 2004 From: billk at iinet.net.au (William Kenworthy) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 06:20:42 +0800 Subject: [plug] live desktop wallpaper Message-ID: <1088720441.12020.3.camel@rattus.Localdomain> Saw an WinXP desktop yesterday that had a copy of the perth weather radar map embedded as the wallpaper, being updated live. This seemed to be under the control of a running application - I presume linux (I use gnome) can do the same but how? BillK radar map: http://mirror.bom.gov.au/radar/IDR123.gif From marks at omninet.net.au Fri Jul 2 06:59:14 2004 From: marks at omninet.net.au (Mark Saxon) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 06:59:14 +0800 Subject: [plug] live desktop wallpaper In-Reply-To: <1088720441.12020.3.camel@rattus.Localdomain> References: <1088720441.12020.3.camel@rattus.Localdomain> Message-ID: <40E49742.3020102@omninet.net.au> William Kenworthy wrote: >Saw an WinXP desktop yesterday that had a copy of the perth weather >radar map embedded as the wallpaper, being updated live. > >This seemed to be under the control of a running application - I presume >linux (I use gnome) can do the same but how? > >BillK > >radar map: http://mirror.bom.gov.au/radar/IDR123.gif > > Well you cant do it with kde 3 and Mandrake it even has a popup that says "only local wallpapers are allowed" > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > > From quadfour at iinet.net.au Fri Jul 2 07:38:42 2004 From: quadfour at iinet.net.au (Michael Collard) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 07:38:42 +0800 Subject: [plug] live desktop wallpaper In-Reply-To: <1088720441.12020.3.camel@rattus.Localdomain> References: <1088720441.12020.3.camel@rattus.Localdomain> Message-ID: <1088725122.21421.4.camel@natalie> On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 06:20, William Kenworthy wrote: > Saw an WinXP desktop yesterday that had a copy of the perth weather > radar map embedded as the wallpaper, being updated live. > > This seemed to be under the control of a running application - I presume > linux (I use gnome) can do the same but how? > > BillK > > radar map: http://mirror.bom.gov.au/radar/IDR123.gif You can do in one of 2 ways. You can disable nautilus from drawing the desktop (see gconf editor) and then put anything you like on the root window, such as a 3D screensaver or wallpaper using imagemagick etc :) The second method is to write a perl script that grabs the GIF every few mins and then uses gconf again to set the wallpaper. I can give you a hand either way so if you tell me which way you want to do this I'll write a PERL script you can use with cron. Regards Michael Collard From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Fri Jul 2 07:43:36 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 07:43:36 +0800 Subject: [plug] live desktop wallpaper In-Reply-To: <40E49742.3020102@omninet.net.au> References: <1088720441.12020.3.camel@rattus.Localdomain> <40E49742.3020102@omninet.net.au> Message-ID: <20040701234336.GA26640@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <40E49742.3020102 at omninet.net.au> on Fri, Jul 02, 2004 at 06:59:14AM +0800, Mark Saxon wrote: > This seemed to be under the control of a running application I don't know about what programmes or desktop environments will stream images from the web, but the principle is also demonstrate by a nice app called xplanetbg (which basically works with any X11 environment as long as your window manager doesn't interfere with it). It keeps elegant globes, space scenes, or world maps spinning in the background: http://xplanet.sourceforge.net/Gallery/ (The above link doesn't have any 2-d projections, even though they are actually my favourites.) From billk at iinet.net.au Fri Jul 2 08:24:32 2004 From: billk at iinet.net.au (William Kenworthy) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 08:24:32 +0800 Subject: [plug] live desktop wallpaper In-Reply-To: <1088725122.21421.4.camel@natalie> References: <1088720441.12020.3.camel@rattus.Localdomain> <1088725122.21421.4.camel@natalie> Message-ID: <1088727872.12020.70.camel@rattus.Localdomain> I think I'll try this approach - I'd rather keep nautilus as it has some nice features in 2.6 (as long as you turn off that absolutely stupid default multi-window behaviour) BillK On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 07:38, Michael Collard wrote: > On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 06:20, William Kenworthy wrote: > > Saw an WinXP desktop yesterday that had a copy of the perth weather > > The second method is to write a perl script that grabs the GIF every few > mins and then uses gconf again to set the wallpaper. I can give you a > hand either way so if you tell me which way you want to do this I'll > write a PERL script you can use with cron. > From caston at arach.net.au Fri Jul 2 10:30:47 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 10:30:47 +0800 Subject: [plug] live desktop wallpaper In-Reply-To: <40E49742.3020102@omninet.net.au> References: <1088720441.12020.3.camel@rattus.Localdomain> <40E49742.3020102@omninet.net.au> Message-ID: <1088735447.2003.2.camel@localhost> On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 06:59, Mark Saxon wrote: > William Kenworthy wrote: > > >Saw an WinXP desktop yesterday that had a copy of the perth weather > >radar map embedded as the wallpaper, being updated live. > > > >This seemed to be under the control of a running application - I presume > >linux (I use gnome) can do the same but how? > > > >BillK > > > >radar map: http://mirror.bom.gov.au/radar/IDR123.gif > > > > > Well you cant do it with kde 3 and Mandrake it even has a popup > that says "only local wallpapers are allowed" > I'm just looking into this now and I have got it yet but stuff I am looking at with sid running kweather and kwebdestop looks very promising. Check out: http://www.arach.net.au/~pcaston/kwebdesktop.png > > > >_______________________________________________ > >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From marks at omninet.net.au Fri Jul 2 11:00:48 2004 From: marks at omninet.net.au (Mark Saxon) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 11:00:48 +0800 Subject: [plug] live desktop wallpaper In-Reply-To: <1088735447.2003.2.camel@localhost> References: <1088720441.12020.3.camel@rattus.Localdomain> <40E49742.3020102@omninet.net.au> <1088735447.2003.2.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <40E4CFE0.3000401@omninet.net.au> Chris Caston wrote: >On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 06:59, Mark Saxon wrote: > > >>William Kenworthy wrote: >> >> >> >>>Saw an WinXP desktop yesterday that had a copy of the perth weather >>>radar map embedded as the wallpaper, being updated live. >>> >>>This seemed to be under the control of a running application - I presume >>>linux (I use gnome) can do the same but how? >>> >>>BillK >>> >>>radar map: http://mirror.bom.gov.au/radar/IDR123.gif >>> >>> >>> >>> >>Well you cant do it with kde 3 and Mandrake it even has a popup >>that says "only local wallpapers are allowed" >> >> >> > >I'm just looking into this now and I have got it yet but stuff I am >looking at with sid running kweather and kwebdestop looks very >promising. > >Check out: > > Its not part of kdebase for version 3.1.3 on Mandrake 9.2 . It seems you would have to go up to Mandrake 10 and kdebase 3.2 to have access to kwebdesktop. >http://www.arach.net.au/~pcaston/kwebdesktop.png > > >>>_______________________________________________ >>>PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >>>http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >>>Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >>http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >>Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > > From lee.jamieson at bigpond.com Fri Jul 2 11:05:43 2004 From: lee.jamieson at bigpond.com (Lee Jamieson) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 11:05:43 +0800 Subject: [plug] installing hp printer - problem. Message-ID: <40E4D107.5080903@bigpond.com> Hiya all. I'm trying to install my Hp 5550 printer. I've downloaded the 1.5 version of the hpijs tar.gz, rather than the 1.6 version - as the 1.6 version is about 50% smaller than the 1.5 version. I have followed the instructions for installing it, but I get an error after I type in ./configure The terminal shows this : > [root at localhost hpijs-1.5]# ./configure > checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c > checking whether build environment is sane... yes > checking for gawk... gawk > checking whether make sets ${MAKE}... yes > checking for gcc... no > checking for cc... no > checking for cc... no > checking for cl... no > configure: error: no acceptable C compiler found in $PATH And I'm wondering if I didn't install a "C compiler" when I installed Linux. Any suggestions? Lee From lee.jamieson at bigpond.com Fri Jul 2 11:10:06 2004 From: lee.jamieson at bigpond.com (Lee Jamieson) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 11:10:06 +0800 Subject: [plug] installing hp printer - problem. In-Reply-To: <40E4D107.5080903@bigpond.com> References: <40E4D107.5080903@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <40E4D20E.10308@bigpond.com> Lee Jamieson wrote: > Hiya all. I'm trying to install my Hp 5550 printer. I've downloaded > the 1.5 version of the hpijs tar.gz, rather than the 1.6 version - as > the 1.6 version is about 50% smaller than the 1.5 version. > > I have followed the instructions for installing it, but I get an error > after I type in ./configure > > The terminal shows this : > >> [root at localhost hpijs-1.5]# ./configure >> checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c >> checking whether build environment is sane... yes >> checking for gawk... gawk >> checking whether make sets ${MAKE}... yes >> checking for gcc... no >> checking for cc... no >> checking for cc... no >> checking for cl... no >> configure: error: no acceptable C compiler found in $PATH > > > And I'm wondering if I didn't install a "C compiler" when I installed > Linux. > > Any suggestions? > > Lee > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > The Printer is detected, as this shows. > drivers/usb/core/usb.c: registered new driver usbfs > drivers/usb/core/usb.c: registered new driver hub > drivers/usb/host/uhci-hcd.c: USB Universal Host Controller Interface driver v2.1 > usb 1-1: new full speed USB device using address 2 > drivers/usb/class/usblp.c: usblp0: USB Bidirectional printer dev 2 if 0 alt 0 pr oto 2 vid 0x03F0 pid 0x6004 > drivers/usb/core/usb.c: registered new driver usblp > drivers/usb/class/usblp.c: v0.13: USB Printer Device Class driver > usb 1-2: new full speed USB device using address 3 > cdc_acm 1-2:1.0: ttyACM0: USB ACM device<6>drivers/usb/core/usb.c: registered ne w driver cdc_acm > drivers/usb/class/cdc-acm.c: v0.23:USB Abstract Control Model driver for USB mod ems and ISDN adapters > drivers/usb/core/usb.c: registered new driver hiddev > drivers/usb/core/usb.c: registered new driver hid > drivers/usb/input/hid-core.c: v2.0:USB HID core driver Other than that I don't know what I have done wrong. Mandrake 10 / 2.6.6 From lee.jamieson at bigpond.com Fri Jul 2 11:22:19 2004 From: lee.jamieson at bigpond.com (Lee Jamieson) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 11:22:19 +0800 Subject: [plug] installing hp printer - problem. In-Reply-To: <40E4D20E.10308@bigpond.com> References: <40E4D107.5080903@bigpond.com> <40E4D20E.10308@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <40E4D4EB.8000905@bigpond.com> Sorry about the spam... I managed to get it to work. I just went into mandrake's control centre and configured it through there. it seems to be working fine. Lee Jamieson wrote: > Lee Jamieson wrote: > >> Hiya all. I'm trying to install my Hp 5550 printer. I've downloaded >> the 1.5 version of the hpijs tar.gz, rather than the 1.6 version - as >> the 1.6 version is about 50% smaller than the 1.5 version. >> >> I have followed the instructions for installing it, but I get an error >> after I type in ./configure >> >> The terminal shows this : >> >>> [root at localhost hpijs-1.5]# ./configure >>> checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c >>> checking whether build environment is sane... yes >>> checking for gawk... gawk >>> checking whether make sets ${MAKE}... yes >>> checking for gcc... no >>> checking for cc... no >>> checking for cc... no >>> checking for cl... no >>> configure: error: no acceptable C compiler found in $PATH >> >> >> >> And I'm wondering if I didn't install a "C compiler" when I installed >> Linux. >> >> Any suggestions? >> >> Lee >> _______________________________________________ >> PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >> http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >> Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au >> > > The Printer is detected, as this shows. > >> drivers/usb/core/usb.c: registered new driver usbfs >> drivers/usb/core/usb.c: registered new driver hub >> drivers/usb/host/uhci-hcd.c: USB Universal Host Controller Interface >> driver v2.1 >> usb 1-1: new full speed USB device using address 2 >> drivers/usb/class/usblp.c: usblp0: USB Bidirectional printer dev 2 if >> 0 alt 0 pr oto 2 vid 0x03F0 pid 0x6004 >> drivers/usb/core/usb.c: registered new driver usblp >> drivers/usb/class/usblp.c: v0.13: USB Printer Device Class driver >> usb 1-2: new full speed USB device using address 3 >> cdc_acm 1-2:1.0: ttyACM0: USB ACM device<6>drivers/usb/core/usb.c: >> registered ne w driver cdc_acm >> drivers/usb/class/cdc-acm.c: v0.23:USB Abstract Control Model driver >> for USB mod ems and ISDN adapters >> drivers/usb/core/usb.c: registered new driver hiddev >> drivers/usb/core/usb.c: registered new driver hid >> drivers/usb/input/hid-core.c: v2.0:USB HID core driver > > > > Other than that I don't know what I have done wrong. > > Mandrake 10 / 2.6.6 > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From caston at arach.net.au Fri Jul 2 11:33:39 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 11:33:39 +0800 Subject: [plug] live desktop wallpaper In-Reply-To: <40E4CFE0.3000401@omninet.net.au> References: <1088720441.12020.3.camel@rattus.Localdomain> <40E49742.3020102@omninet.net.au> <1088735447.2003.2.camel@localhost> <40E4CFE0.3000401@omninet.net.au> Message-ID: <1088739219.2003.5.camel@localhost> On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 11:00, Mark Saxon wrote: > Chris Caston wrote: > > >On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 06:59, Mark Saxon wrote: > > > > > >>William Kenworthy wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>Saw an WinXP desktop yesterday that had a copy of the perth weather > >>>radar map embedded as the wallpaper, being updated live. > >>> > >>>This seemed to be under the control of a running application - I presume > >>>linux (I use gnome) can do the same but how? > >>> > >>>BillK > >>> > >>>radar map: http://mirror.bom.gov.au/radar/IDR123.gif > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>Well you cant do it with kde 3 and Mandrake it even has a popup > >>that says "only local wallpapers are allowed" > >> > >> > >> > > > >I'm just looking into this now and I have got it yet but stuff I am > >looking at with sid running kweather and kwebdestop looks very > >promising. > > > >Check out: > > > > > Its not part of kdebase for version 3.1.3 on Mandrake 9.2 . It seems you > would have to go up to > Mandrake 10 and kdebase 3.2 to have access to kwebdesktop. > > OK. Can you do the eqiv of a dist-upgrade using urpmi? I've only actually tried 10 and never tried upgrading from an earlier version. > >http://www.arach.net.au/~pcaston/kwebdesktop.png > > > > > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > >>>http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > >>>Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > >>http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > >>Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > >> > >> > >> > > > >_______________________________________________ > >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Fri Jul 2 12:21:24 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 12:21:24 +0800 Subject: [plug] Quick Python question Message-ID: <200407021221.24164@death.2.spammers> I want to save the standard input into a scratch file in Python. Will import sys import tempfile tempfile.tempdir = '/tmp' # save input to scratch file scratch, scratch_name = tempfile.mkstemp(suffix='', prefix='maildoc.') scratch.write(sys.stdin.read()) scratch.close() in 2.3 do the trick? For arbitrary input content? Seems like mkstemp is new with Python 2.3 so a few more hoops in 2.2. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From billk at iinet.net.au Fri Jul 2 12:21:08 2004 From: billk at iinet.net.au (Bill Kenworthy) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 12:21:08 +0800 Subject: [plug] live desktop wallpaper In-Reply-To: <1088735447.2003.2.camel@localhost> References: <1088720441.12020.3.camel@rattus.Localdomain> <40E49742.3020102@omninet.net.au> <1088735447.2003.2.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1088742068.16200.3.camel@cbbcbitl303c.murdoch.edu.au> KISS: watch -n 300 "GET http://mirror.bom.gov.au/radar/IDR123.gif > IDR123.gif;composite -geometry "100x175%" IDR123.gif abell1689_hstacs_full.jpg BG.jpg; gconftool-2 -s /desktop/gnome/background/picture_filename /home/wdk/galeon/abell1689_hstacs_full.jpg -t string;gconftool-2 -s /desktop/gnome/background/picture_filename /home/wdk/galeon/BG.jpg -t string" on one line! Found I had to set the BG to something else before the update would take, couldnt find a refresh command. Takes a base image, inserts the latest retrieved radar image, and writes to the active wallpaper name, then refreshes it. BillK On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 10:30, Chris Caston wrote: > On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 06:59, Mark Saxon wrote: > > William Kenworthy wrote: > > > > >Saw an WinXP desktop yesterday that had a copy of the perth weather > > >radar map embedded as the wallpaper, being updated live. From marks at omninet.net.au Fri Jul 2 12:36:00 2004 From: marks at omninet.net.au (Mark Saxon) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 12:36:00 +0800 Subject: [plug]not tried 10 was live desktop wallpaper In-Reply-To: <1088739219.2003.5.camel@localhost> References: <1088720441.12020.3.camel@rattus.Localdomain> <40E49742.3020102@omninet.net.au> <1088735447.2003.2.camel@localhost> <40E4CFE0.3000401@omninet.net.au> <1088739219.2003.5.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <40E4E630.8020801@omninet.net.au> Chris Caston wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>I'm just looking into this now and I have got it yet but stuff I am >>>looking at with sid running kweather and kwebdestop looks very >>>promising. >>> >>>Check out: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>Its not part of kdebase for version 3.1.3 on Mandrake 9.2 . It seems you >>would have to go up to >>Mandrake 10 and kdebase 3.2 to have access to kwebdesktop. >> >> >> >> > >OK. Can you do the eqiv of a dist-upgrade using urpmi? > >I've only actually tried 10 and never tried upgrading from an earlier >version. > > Probably... but I don't have the bandwidth modem only sadly. I have had the 10 official cd for a while but my expierince with upgrading from cd is asking for grief. I had planed to upgrade hardware and move to Mandrake 10. Which brings me to plug mail list archive. I know there was a thread on MB selection some time pasted but with no search function its tricky finding it. I cant remember now if nForce2 mother boards were bagged or backed and if serial ATA is worth bothering with or not? Mark > > >>>http://www.arach.net.au/~pcaston/kwebdesktop.png >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >>>>>http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >>>>>Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >>>>http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >>>>Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >>>http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >>>Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >>http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >>Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > > From ryan at westnet.net.au Fri Jul 2 12:53:52 2004 From: ryan at westnet.net.au (Ryan Smith) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 12:53:52 +0800 Subject: [plug] back up over network Message-ID: <20040702045352.GA2949@tesla> hello Im sure this has been asked before but I cant find it anywhere so Ill ask it again. I want to back up my root partition on my server and store it as an image on my computer. the partition is only about 600MB and i cant store the image on my server cause its lacking in hard drive space. So would something like this work? dd if=/dev/hdd1 of=backup.iso bs=2k | scp ryan at tesla: cheers Ryan From brad at wasp.net.au Fri Jul 2 13:07:29 2004 From: brad at wasp.net.au (Brad Campbell) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 09:07:29 +0400 Subject: [plug] back up over network In-Reply-To: <20040702045352.GA2949@tesla> References: <20040702045352.GA2949@tesla> Message-ID: <40E4ED91.1000203@wasp.net.au> Ryan Smith wrote: > hello > > Im sure this has been asked before but I cant find it anywhere so Ill > ask it again. I want to back up my root partition on my server and store it as an image on my computer. the partition is only about 600MB and i cant store the image on my server cause its lacking in hard drive space. > So would something like this work? > dd if=/dev/hdd1 of=backup.iso bs=2k | scp ryan at tesla: dd if=/dev/hdd1 bs=2k | ssh ryan at tesla dd of=backup.iso Regards, Brad From zombie at penguincare.com.au Fri Jul 2 13:08:33 2004 From: zombie at penguincare.com.au (Matt Kemner) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 13:08:33 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] back up over network In-Reply-To: <20040702045352.GA2949@tesla> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Jul 2004, quoth Ryan Smith: > So would something like this work? > dd if=/dev/hdd1 of=backup.iso bs=2k | scp ryan at tesla: Drop the of= and dd will use stdout so: dd if=/dev/hdd1 bs=2k | ssh ryan at tesla dd of=/path/backup.iso I prefer file level backups over device-level backups, so my preferred method is something like: rsync -avP -e ssh --delete --delete-after / ryan at tesla:/Backup/server/ which can then be easily kept up to date on a daily (or even hourly) basis with minimum bandwidth transfer after the initial one. - Matt From bladebadger at westnet.com.au Fri Jul 2 13:11:33 2004 From: bladebadger at westnet.com.au (Adam Davin) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 13:11:33 +0800 Subject: [OT -- no remaining Linux content] [plug] Dude, where is my HD space gone? In-Reply-To: <20040701110532.GA17435@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <6.0.3.0.1.20040701174728.01da3ec0@mail.westnet.com.au> <20040701100819.GA16567@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <40E3E73B.5030605@westnet.com.au> <20040701103341.GA17061@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <40E3EB49.1090006@westnet.com.au> <87lli4t30s.fsf@erdos.home> <20040701110532.GA17435@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <20040702131133.3d08e936.bladebadger@westnet.com.au> Afternoon All, On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 19:05:32 +0800 James Devenish wrote: > In message <40E3E73B.5030605 at westnet.com.au> > on Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 06:28:11PM +0800, Garry wrote: > > | 111GB * 95% = 105MB > > Do you reckon? > > (Aside from the factor of 1024...) I guess I /should/ have written > 111GiB * 95% = 105MiB Umm it could just be me being sleepless and all (seeings 'bub' was up for most of the night) but I still have a minor problem with this calculation, well not so much the calculation but the units... 95% of something means its almost _all_ of it 105Mb is only around 0.0009% of the original 111Gb, thus 95% of 111Gb is 105Gb, not 105Mb (5.5Gb then being the amount that is reserved) I could be wrong though :) Feel free to correct. > > In message <87lli4t30s.fsf at erdos.home> > on Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 06:50:27PM +0800, Cameron Patrick wrote: > > Garry writes: > > >> One's metric, the other's imperial. I'm at least as accurate as NASA > > > Oh.. I stand ummmm corrected... I think. ;^)== > > After all, James should know -- he's English :-P From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Fri Jul 2 13:12:52 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 13:12:52 +0800 Subject: [plug] back up over network In-Reply-To: <20040702045352.GA2949@tesla> References: <20040702045352.GA2949@tesla> Message-ID: <200407021312.52292@death.2.spammers> On Friday 02 July 2004 12:53, Ryan Smith wrote: > Im sure this has been asked before but I cant find it anywhere so Ill You seem to have a faulty keyboard or are you just saving the a'post'ro'phe's for abuse? :-) > ask it again. I want to back up my root partition on my server and store > it as an image on my computer. the partition is only about 600MB and i > cant store the image on my server cause its lacking in hard drive space. > So would something like this work? > dd if=/dev/hdd1 of=backup.iso bs=2k | scp ryan at tesla: That's not how you make an iso image. ;-) dd if=/dev/hdd1 bs=8k conv=sync | ssh -C ryan at tesla "cat>/some/where" But you should be using something more robust than dd because the filesystem can change during the process and a restore will just cause headaches. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Fri Jul 2 13:18:01 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 13:18:01 +0800 Subject: [OT -- no remaining Linux content] [plug] Dude, where is my HD space gone? In-Reply-To: <20040702131133.3d08e936.bladebadger@westnet.com.au> References: <6.0.3.0.1.20040701174728.01da3ec0@mail.westnet.com.au> <20040701100819.GA16567@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <40E3E73B.5030605@westnet.com.au> <20040701103341.GA17061@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <40E3EB49.1090006@westnet.com.au> <87lli4t30s.fsf@erdos.home> <20040701110532.GA17435@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <20040702131133.3d08e936.bladebadger@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <20040702051801.GA1911@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Hi, In message <20040702131133.3d08e936.bladebadger at westnet.com.au> on Fri, Jul 02, 2004 at 01:11:33PM +0800, Adam Davin wrote: > On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 19:05:32 +0800 > James Devenish wrote: > > In message <40E3E73B.5030605 at westnet.com.au> > > on Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 06:28:11PM +0800, Garry wrote: > > > | 111GB * 95% = 105MB > > > Do you reckon? > > (Aside from the factor of 1024...) I guess I /should/ have written > > 111GiB * 95% = 105MiB > ... I still have a minor problem with ... the units... The erroneous equation was: 111GB * 95% = 105MB It has two errors. Fixing one of those (and bluffing with the other) gives: 111GiB * 95% = 105MiB (As stated.) The correct equation, if you want to go that far, was meant to have been: 111GiB * 95% = 105GiB Phew. From ryan at westnet.net.au Fri Jul 2 13:32:26 2004 From: ryan at westnet.net.au (Ryan Smith) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 13:32:26 +0800 Subject: [plug] back up over network In-Reply-To: <200407021312.52292@death.2.spammers> References: <20040702045352.GA2949@tesla> <200407021312.52292@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <20040702053225.GA3089@tesla> On Fri, Jul 02, 2004 at 01:12:52PM +0800, Bernd Felsche wrote: | On Friday 02 July 2004 12:53, Ryan Smith wrote: | > Im sure this has been asked before but I cant find it anywhere so Ill | | You seem to have a faulty keyboard or are you just saving the | a'post'ro'phe's for abuse? :-) | Actually its more due to laziness and partly due to me being very bad at english. I'm surprised no one hasn't commented on my lack of grammer earlier. Sometimes I don't use capital leters at all. Cheers Ryan From ryan at westnet.net.au Fri Jul 2 13:33:38 2004 From: ryan at westnet.net.au (Ryan Smith) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 13:33:38 +0800 Subject: [plug] back up over network In-Reply-To: <40E4ED91.1000203@wasp.net.au> References: <20040702045352.GA2949@tesla> <40E4ED91.1000203@wasp.net.au> Message-ID: <20040702053338.GB3089@tesla> On Fri, Jul 02, 2004 at 09:07:29AM +0400, Brad Campbell wrote: | Ryan Smith wrote: | | dd if=/dev/hdd1 bs=2k | ssh ryan at tesla dd of=backup.iso | Ahh I thought what I had looked kinda wrong so I thought I should double check. Lucky I did. Thanks for that. cheers Ryan From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Fri Jul 2 15:58:32 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 15:58:32 +0800 Subject: [plug] back up over network In-Reply-To: <20040702045352.GA2949@tesla> References: <20040702045352.GA2949@tesla> Message-ID: <20040702075832.GB15280@patrick.wattle.id.au> Ryan Smith wrote: > Im sure this has been asked before but I cant find it anywhere so > Ill ask it again. I want to back up my root partition on my server > and store it as an image on my computer. the partition is only about > 600MB and i cant store the image on my server cause its lacking in > hard drive space. So would something like this work? > dd if=/dev/hdd1 of=backup.iso bs=2k | scp ryan at tesla: I like the rsync-based backup approach that Matt suggested too. One advantage that it has over the dd way is that it'll work properly even when the filesystem on /dev/hdd1 is actually mounted. (Rsync doesn't guarantee that the snapshot is actually consistent, though; if you care about that you'd have to talk to Craig about LVM or similar. It's still Good Enough most of the time.) One problem with rsync is that it can't preserve file ownership properly unless it's running as root on both machines. You'll also want to use the --numeric-ids option unless the two machines share a password database (which in your case they probably don't). Cameron. From myk at westnet.com.au Fri Jul 2 16:42:26 2004 From: myk at westnet.com.au (Michael Holland) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 16:42:26 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] back up over network In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Jul 2004, Matt Kemner wrote: > dd if=/dev/hdd1 bs=2k | ssh ryan at tesla dd of=/path/backup.iso or less redundantly: < /dev/hdd1 ssh ryan at tesla dd of=/path/backup.iso But isn't it a bit couragous to copy an active mounted filesytem? Is there any way to make it safe? e.g. sync the buffers to disk, and suspend all further syncs until the copy is complete. Oh wait. It says its an iso9660 filesystem, and they are read-only. Can you _really_ run a server with and ISO root filesystem??? I find that very hard to believe, Mr Smart. > I prefer file level backups over device-level backups, so my preferred > method is something like: > > rsync -avP -e ssh --delete --delete-after / ryan at tesla:/Backup/server/ How well does rsync cope with devices, pipes, hard-linked files etc? -- Hey Brother...Can you spare a Gmail invite? From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Fri Jul 2 16:53:49 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 16:53:49 +0800 Subject: [plug] back up over network In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040702085349.GA25546@patrick.wattle.id.au> Michael Holland wrote: > But isn't it a bit couragous to copy an active mounted filesytem? > Is there any way to make it safe? e.g. sync the buffers to disk, and > suspend all further syncs until the copy is complete. XFS can do it with the xfs_freeze command. Otherwise, I agree, it sounds like a recipe for data loss. > Oh wait. It says its an iso9660 filesystem, and they are read-only. > Can you _really_ run a server with and ISO root filesystem??? > I find that very hard to believe, Mr Smart. Yes, you can, if you try hard enough. http://panopticon.csustan.edu/thood/readonly-root.html > > rsync -avP -e ssh --delete --delete-after / ryan at tesla:/Backup/server/ > How well does rsync cope with devices, pipes, hard-linked files etc? It copes just fine. Cameron. From myk at westnet.com.au Fri Jul 2 17:59:43 2004 From: myk at westnet.com.au (Michael Holland) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 17:59:43 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Digital TV In-Reply-To: <1088546029.22540.3.camel@natalie> References: <1088546029.22540.3.camel@natalie> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jun 2004, Michael Collard wrote: > Just letting you all know that I now have working Digital TV in Linux > with the VisionPlus DVB-T card :). I would grab a couple of screenies Is that another version of the Technotrend Budget, like Hauppauge WinTV-Nova PCI and DPANDA ? Looks like it from what I can find. > but my MPlayer is playing up with X11 output, and I can get a screenie > of the hardware overlay xv uses. You could try "mplayer -vo x11", but I see it looses the aspect ratio. > I do have a question though, what is a good viewer app (non KDE) for > DVB? I don't want something like MythTV which is kinda overkill for what mplayer? You'll need to tell it to de-interlace. I'm just using " mplayer -vf lavcdeint". What filtering do folks recommend? -- Hey Brother...Can you spare a Gmail invite? From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Fri Jul 2 20:30:45 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 20:30:45 +0800 Subject: [plug] MIME Types by file contents In-Reply-To: <200407020025.26027@death.2.spammers> References: <200407011203.33627@death.2.spammers> <200407011315.14159@death.2.spammers> <40E3B3AA.5050803@postnewspapers.com.au> <200407020025.26027@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <1088771445.11818.10.camel@rasputin.localnet> On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 00:25, Bernd Felsche wrote: > The list returned by the function contains not only a maintype and > subtype, but also stuff that might lend itself to smarter encoding > overall... but I'm not too fussed right now. I'd like to add a comment on that function: your use of a local variable called 'file' may bend the brain of some Python users, as 'file' is a built-in object that's imported into the __main__ namespace from __builtin__ automatically. Assigning to that name won't affect 'file', it'll just hide it within that function, but ... it's really weird to read the code when you're used to writing fdata = file(path_to_file).read() and similar. Also - any chance you can send me some sample output from 'file' that exercises the full depth of that nest of for loops? I'm not getting much interesting output out of 'file' - the most interesting is from a core file - and I'm curious. -- Craig Ringer From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Fri Jul 2 20:49:17 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 20:49:17 +0800 Subject: [plug] Quick Python question In-Reply-To: <200407021221.24164@death.2.spammers> References: <200407021221.24164@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <1088772557.11818.22.camel@rasputin.localnet> On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 12:21, Bernd Felsche wrote: > I want to save the standard input into a scratch file in Python. > Will [snip] > in 2.3 do the trick? For arbitrary input content? It looks fine to me. However, 'tempfile' module provides the functions: TempFile and NamedTempFile which might be worth thinking about. I'd use TempFile over mkstemp if I knew I wouldn't need to access the temp file from something I couldn't pass a file descriptor to. You also have the options of using StringIO, which is useful for when when you want file-like behaviour but don't need a real on-disk file. It's nice when you know the input won't be too large, as you don't need to think about an on-disk file to clean up and keep secure. -- Craig Ringer From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Fri Jul 2 20:55:10 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 20:55:10 +0800 Subject: [plug] MIME Types by file contents In-Reply-To: <1088771445.11818.10.camel@rasputin.localnet> References: <200407011203.33627@death.2.spammers> <200407020025.26027@death.2.spammers> <1088771445.11818.10.camel@rasputin.localnet> Message-ID: <200407022055.10658@death.2.spammers> On Friday 02 July 2004 20:30, Craig Ringer wrote: > On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 00:25, Bernd Felsche wrote: > > The list returned by the function contains not only a maintype and > > subtype, but also stuff that might lend itself to smarter encoding > > overall... but I'm not too fussed right now. > > I'd like to add a comment on that function: your use of a local > variable called 'file' may bend the brain of some Python users, as > 'file' is a built-in object that's imported into the __main__ > namespace from __builtin__ automatically. Assigning to that name > won't affect 'file', it'll just hide it within that function, but > ... it's really weird to read the code when you're used to writing > > fdata = file(path_to_file).read() Errmm yes. you're right of course. I'll change that. > and similar. > > Also - any chance you can send me some sample output from 'file' that > exercises the full depth of that nest of for loops? I'm not getting much > interesting output out of 'file' - the most interesting is from a core > file - and I'm curious. Using "file -bi ~/* | sort -u" application/msword application/pdf application/x-empty application/x-executable, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped application/x-gzip application/x-not-regular-file application/x-perl application/x-shellscript application/x-zip data image/gif image/jpeg message/news 8bit text/html text/html; charset=us-ascii text/plain, English; charset=iso-8859-1 text/plain, English; charset=us-ascii text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 text/plain; charset=us-ascii text/x-c; charset=us-ascii text/x-java; charset=us-ascii text/x-mail; charset=us-ascii The for loops split on each of ;, and tab. The most-complex I've encountered are "text/plain, English; charset=iso-8859-1" and the like. Note the alternate magic file used when MIME output is required; the output text will depend on what's in the magic file. I've not run an exhaustive test on that yet to ensure that it'll generate the appropriate list in Python. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Fri Jul 2 21:03:43 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 21:03:43 +0800 Subject: [plug] back up over network In-Reply-To: <20040702045352.GA2949@tesla> References: <20040702045352.GA2949@tesla> Message-ID: <1088773423.11818.36.camel@rasputin.localnet> On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 12:53, Ryan Smith wrote: > hello > > Im sure this has been asked before but I cant find it anywhere so Ill > ask it again. I want to back up my root partition on my server and store it as an image on my computer. the partition is only about 600MB and i cant store the image on my server cause its lacking in hard drive space. > So would something like this work? > dd if=/dev/hdd1 of=backup.iso bs=2k | scp ryan at tesla: If you're working with relatively local machines, then there are some other options that haven't been mentioned: partimage and network block device. I've been using Partimage quite a bit recently, and I find it extremely useful. I wouldn't use it to store long-term backups because I'm not confident they won't change the format, but it's _great_ for server and desktop cloning, quick backups, etc. You can also always write a partimage file to a loopback device once the network partimage operation has finished if you're concerned about file format issues. I've also used NBD quite a bit. I had good results with it for a while, but I must say the more recent versions haven't worked as well for me - I've had a series of weird problems. NBD is an option, but I'd call it pretty close to bottom of the pile. Finally, if you're insane or desperate, you can always cat file_or_partition > /dev/tcp/target_host/target_port on the server, and nc -l -p target_port > image_file on the target. A real life saver when you can't copy things around any other way, and something I've used to transfer binaries I need to a really limited rescue environment. You need to be using bash. Regarding the issue of cloning a mounted device, I must agree - I think it's insane. You appear to be using ISO9660, so that's not really an issue for you, but I'll mention a few options for consideration in case others find this thread later. The first is to run your server's storage on top of something like LVM or LVM2 (which is device-mapper based). There's a bit of added complexity (especially LVM root FS), but when it comes to things like making backups you'll never understand how you did without it. You can tell LVM to create a snapshot device, which is a essentially a view of the file system frozen in time, and back that up. The FS will be mounted r/w, but not active, so at worst it'll need journal recovery and maybe an fsck. LVM snapshots also allow you to _safely_ use rsync, tar, etc to copy active server file systems without worrying about things getting out of sync. Think mail spools. Another option is to make sure to remount the FS read only before copying: mount /filesystem -o ro,remount ... but this is tricky for the root FS, and often involves dropping down to runlevel 1 then killing a few things because so many processes like to hold r/w files open on the root FS. Like syslog, for example. -- Craig Ringer From anarchist_tomato at hotmail.com Fri Jul 2 21:29:55 2004 From: anarchist_tomato at hotmail.com (John Knight) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 21:29:55 +0800 Subject: [plug] DVD players Message-ID: There are four main contenders, xine, MPlayer, Ogle and Videolan. xine is the most mature (it was the original) and the one I would recommend the most. It's not only a DVD player, but a CD player, live webcast player, mp3, video player, etc. xinehq.de MPlayer is a video player that *happens* to play DVDs. MPlayer has no menus, so you have to manually choose what video/audio/subtitle stream or chapter you want to use and it's a bit more hardcore than other players. MPlayer should be installed anyway, as it's an invaluable tool, and arguably the best player for general video files under Linux. Plus it can encode files and rip DVDs. mplayerhq.hu Ogle is a lightweight DVD player that supports menus and subtitles etc, but it's not particularly stable and doesn't have avdanced options like video-deinterlacing (for things shot on video to stop the 'liney' effect). Good for slower machines or quick and easy access. http://www.dtek.chalmers.se/groups/dvd/ VideoLan is a two part package, but all you need is the client. It's a player that's designed around a server PC streaming out a DVD/video file and the client machines all watching it from the streaming server. Videolan certainly has its fans and it aims at a niche area like MPlayer and Ogle, worth a try, but I'd still recommend xine over it. videolan.org (i think) xine supports de-interlacing and changing audio streams all on the fly, plus surround sound support and a host of other features. I'd recommend using xine together with its standard UI and compiling them from source, with the latest ALSA 1.0 drivers. .deb packages are okay and most pluggers seem to not notice the difference (it's come up before), but when it comes to intensive playback and error free, completely smooth DVD playback, source is the only way to go as it's fully optimised for your system. .deb packages for all of these proggies are avaialable on the official websites of each project if you'd prefer to go that way. xine comes in two parts, the xine-lib and you then pick a UI for the top, the default is best for most people. MPlayer do not support the binary packages and would prefer you built from source. IF you need help with it, my article went up today at linux.com (shameless plug coming): http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=04/07/01/1940236 cheers! John >Hi all, > >Just a quick question to those who follow the multimedia scene on Linux- >what is the best DVD player these days and where can I get .deb's for >it? There are plenty of comparisons on the web, but mostly they are out >of date due to the rapid rate of development that is going on in this >area. > >Thanks, >Tim _________________________________________________________________ Get a Virgin Credit Card and win an adventure: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;8661322;9498324;s?http://www.promo.com.au/virgincreditcard/firstbirthday/track.cfm?source=N92 From quadfour at iinet.net.au Fri Jul 2 21:55:13 2004 From: quadfour at iinet.net.au (Michael Collard) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 21:55:13 +0800 Subject: [plug] Digital TV In-Reply-To: References: <1088546029.22540.3.camel@natalie> Message-ID: <1088776513.22305.5.camel@natalie> On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 17:59, Michael Holland wrote: > On Wed, 30 Jun 2004, Michael Collard wrote: > > > Just letting you all know that I now have working Digital TV in Linux > > with the VisionPlus DVB-T card :). I would grab a couple of screenies > > Is that another version of the Technotrend Budget, like Hauppauge > WinTV-Nova PCI and DPANDA ? Looks like it from what I can find. More or less. It doesn't have any decoding capabilities, all left up to software. > > but my MPlayer is playing up with X11 output, and I can get a screenie > > of the hardware overlay xv uses. > > You could try "mplayer -vo x11", but I see it looses the aspect ratio. Yeh, plus it was kinda broken with Gnome 2.6 (metacity). The CVS version fixed that up fine and I now have a screenie: http://members.iinet.net.au/~quadfour/ss1.jpg You can also find it under iinet.binaries :) > > I do have a question though, what is a good viewer app (non KDE) for > > DVB? I don't want something like MythTV which is kinda overkill for what > > mplayer? You'll need to tell it to de-interlace. > I'm just using " mplayer -vf lavcdeint". > What filtering do folks recommend? Im using -vf pp=lb, doesn't use any CPU from what I can tell but that is kinda hard to notice on an AMD64 ;) I've also setup the channels.conf file and mplayer can go from channel to channel etc, pretty much what I want. Regards Michael Collard From quadfour at iinet.net.au Fri Jul 2 21:56:18 2004 From: quadfour at iinet.net.au (Michael Collard) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 21:56:18 +0800 Subject: [plug] live desktop wallpaper In-Reply-To: <1088742068.16200.3.camel@cbbcbitl303c.murdoch.edu.au> References: <1088720441.12020.3.camel@rattus.Localdomain> <40E49742.3020102@omninet.net.au> <1088735447.2003.2.camel@localhost> <1088742068.16200.3.camel@cbbcbitl303c.murdoch.edu.au> Message-ID: <1088776578.22302.7.camel@natalie> On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 12:21, Bill Kenworthy wrote: > KISS: > > watch -n 300 "GET http://mirror.bom.gov.au/radar/IDR123.gif > > IDR123.gif;composite -geometry "100x175%" IDR123.gif > abell1689_hstacs_full.jpg BG.jpg; gconftool-2 -s > /desktop/gnome/background/picture_filename > /home/wdk/galeon/abell1689_hstacs_full.jpg -t string;gconftool-2 -s > /desktop/gnome/background/picture_filename /home/wdk/galeon/BG.jpg -t > string" > > on one line! > > Found I had to set the BG to something else before the update would > take, couldnt find a refresh command. Takes a base image, inserts the > latest retrieved radar image, and writes to the active wallpaper name, > then refreshes it. I'm going to note those commands, probably less overhead than a perl script :) Regards Michael Collard From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Fri Jul 2 23:16:52 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 23:16:52 +0800 Subject: [plug] back up over network In-Reply-To: <1088773423.11818.36.camel@rasputin.localnet> References: <20040702045352.GA2949@tesla> <1088773423.11818.36.camel@rasputin.localnet> Message-ID: <20040702151652.GA32719@patrick.wattle.id.au> Craig Ringer wrote: > [Ryan] > > dd if=/dev/hdd1 of=backup.iso bs=2k | scp ryan at tesla: > > Regarding the issue of cloning a mounted device, I must agree - I think > it's insane. You appear to be using ISO9660 Assuming these are the machines that I think they are, Ryan isn't really using ISO 9660, but actually ext3 (or ext2?). Probably he called the file .iso out of habit... Cameron. From mungotheb at hotmail.com Fri Jul 2 23:50:45 2004 From: mungotheb at hotmail.com (Mungo TheB) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 15:50:45 +0000 Subject: [plug] 2.6.7 no network? Message-ID: any ideas why 2.4 2.5 2.6 2.6.6 my netcards work but not any version of 2.6.7 MungoTheB _________________________________________________________________ Find love today with ninemsn personals. Click here: http://ninemsn.match.com?referrer=hotmailtagline From alan.graham at infonetsystems.com.au Sat Jul 3 00:10:04 2004 From: alan.graham at infonetsystems.com.au (Alan Graham) Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 00:10:04 +0800 Subject: [plug] Anyone got an 802.11g card working? Message-ID: <1088784604.2925.7.camel@bart.graham.fdns.net> I've installed Mandrake 10 on my laptop and it doesn't recognise my ethernet card (works fine under 9.0, 9.1 and 9.2.. but that's a different story). I decided to use this as an excuse to install an access point, climb up onto the roof with an antenna, join freenet... etc. I've checked the mandrake site for supported hardware, but they don't give a lot of details, so I'm after war stories. Anyone got one of these beasts working? Was it painful/ Thanks Alan -- Alan Graham -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Sat Jul 3 00:45:51 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 00:45:51 +0800 Subject: [plug] Anyone got an 802.11g card working? In-Reply-To: <1088784604.2925.7.camel@bart.graham.fdns.net> References: <1088784604.2925.7.camel@bart.graham.fdns.net> Message-ID: <1088786751.11818.72.camel@rasputin.localnet> On Sat, 2004-07-03 at 00:10, Alan Graham wrote: > I've checked the mandrake site for supported hardware, but they don't > give a lot of details, so I'm after war stories. Anyone got one of > these beasts working? Was it painful/ Details on what the hardware is might be useful. Brand, chipset, output of 'cardctl --ident' or 'lspci -v' as appropriate, etc. -- Craig Ringer From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Sat Jul 3 01:48:16 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 01:48:16 +0800 Subject: [plug] back up over network In-Reply-To: <20040702151652.GA32719@patrick.wattle.id.au> References: <20040702045352.GA2949@tesla> <1088773423.11818.36.camel@rasputin.localnet> <20040702151652.GA32719@patrick.wattle.id.au> Message-ID: <1088790496.11818.75.camel@rasputin.localnet> On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 23:16, Cameron Patrick wrote: > Craig Ringer wrote: > > > Regarding the issue of cloning a mounted device, I must agree - I think > > it's insane. You appear to be using ISO9660 > > Assuming these are the machines that I think they are, Ryan isn't > really using ISO 9660, but actually ext3 (or ext2?). Probably he > called the file .iso out of habit... Heh, you're probably right. It did strike me as rather strange. That's why I use '.img' or '.image'. I can imagine some serious frustration if the image also came out in the 650MB range (as root FSes on my machines often do). Hmm... or would Linux just mount the ext2 CD read only? I must try that... -- Craig Ringer From brad at wasp.net.au Sat Jul 3 02:05:35 2004 From: brad at wasp.net.au (Brad Campbell) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 22:05:35 +0400 Subject: [plug] back up over network In-Reply-To: <1088790496.11818.75.camel@rasputin.localnet> References: <20040702045352.GA2949@tesla> <1088773423.11818.36.camel@rasputin.localnet> <20040702151652.GA32719@patrick.wattle.id.au> <1088790496.11818.75.camel@rasputin.localnet> Message-ID: <40E5A3EF.5020705@wasp.net.au> Craig Ringer wrote: > I can imagine some serious frustration if the image also came out in the > 650MB range (as root FSes on my machines often do). Hmm... or would > Linux just mount the ext2 CD read only? I must try that... It will. Often as a basic level of security against the casual windows user I used to create my backup CD's as ext2. No problems, linux just treats the disk as a block device and mounts it normally. I forget how I wrote the disk though. Some magic with cdrecord from hazy memory. Regards, Brad From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Sat Jul 3 04:03:55 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 04:03:55 +0800 Subject: [plug] mail flood Message-ID: <1088798635.13103.12.camel@rasputin.localnet> Hi folks I'm just wondering - is anybody else's mail server melting under a flood of bogus mail right now, or is it just me? I'm seeing a couple of messages per second. It looks a lot like another mass mailing worm, and a really aggressive one. I discovered the problem when I started getting warnings about my mail server's spool partition filling up! About 50% of the mail is addressed to 'inq ryda.com.au' which is just weird. Symantec doesn't seem to know anything about it. If anybody else is unfortunate enough to be awake and thinking work right now, it might be time to batten down the hatches. -- Craig Ringer From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Sat Jul 3 05:23:04 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 05:23:04 +0800 Subject: [plug] mail flood In-Reply-To: <1088798635.13103.12.camel@rasputin.localnet> References: <1088798635.13103.12.camel@rasputin.localnet> Message-ID: <1088803383.13103.65.camel@rasputin.localnet> On Sat, 2004-07-03 at 04:03, Craig Ringer wrote: > Symantec doesn't seem to know anything about it. The MD5sum of the encoded MS-Windows executable I extracted a number of the messages is: a784ae53526d6e08d13c71b3de267660 and it _appears_ to be the same across the (relatively small) message sample set I checked. If you ever need to do this (decode base64-encoded MIME data like uuencode etc), it's easy to cut the message down to just the base64 encoded data in a text editor then: python -c \ "file('decoded','w').write(file('bad_msg').read().decode('base64'))" (of course, there's going to be some easy dedicated command line tool to do it like uudecode does). Aaah, a little more digging reveals that it's Zafi.B . http://www.sophos.com/virusinfo/analyses/w32zafib.html http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.erkez.b%40mm.html I wonder why it suddenly started flooding out of nowhere? I blocked the main source (a Connect.com.au address, 210.8.249.250) and it's fallen off rapidly, but it's still coming from a lot of different sources. So ... it's just another Windows mass mailing worm. I normally don't even notice when the next one hits anymore, they're so frequent. I've given up on antivirus in favour of strict MIME type and file ext blocks on the mail server, so they normally go totally unremarked. I initially noticed this one only because the /var filesystem of my front-line mail server filled up with bounce messages, causing a bunch of alarms. Sorry for the noise, everybody. -- Craig Ringer From onno at itmaze.com.au Sat Jul 3 05:37:04 2004 From: onno at itmaze.com.au (Onno Benschop) Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 07:37:04 +1000 Subject: [plug] MIME Types by file contents In-Reply-To: <200407022055.10658@death.2.spammers> References: <200407011203.33627@death.2.spammers> <200407020025.26027@death.2.spammers> <1088771445.11818.10.camel@rasputin.localnet> <200407022055.10658@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <1088804224.3592.7.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 22:55, Bernd Felsche wrote: > Using "file -bi ~/* | sort -u" Note of caution. I once had the same problem, but in PHP. My solution was also to use the file command, but it wasn't working in Solaris. Then I found out that there are multiple version of file. On the way I learnt roughly how the magic file works and I confess that it is a pure work of evil. Basically it is a huge list of patterns, so the code can build a switch() that ends up looking like this: if byte[4]=aa and byte[6]=b0 and byte[42]=11 then return bob/type if byte[22]=be and byte[11]=00 and byte[12]=00 then return music/type etc. (Of course there is pattern matching in there also, but it's all based on certain character orders.) So, if you carefully craft legitimate data, that matches one of those things, then it will be mis-identified. All I'm saying is that while I also used file as a solution, it's evil, bad, subject to breaking and cause for palpitations. Onno Benschop Connected via Optus B3 at S27?52'30" - E151?16'25" (Millmerran, QLD) -- ()/)/)() ..ASCII for Onno.. |>>? ..EBCDIC for Onno.. --- -. -. --- ..Morse for Onno.. Proudly supported by Skipper Trucks, Highway1, Concept AV, Sony Central, Dalcon ITmaze - ABN: 56 178 057 063 - ph: 04 1219 8888 - onno at itmaze dot com dot au From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Sat Jul 3 06:31:27 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 06:31:27 +0800 Subject: [plug] Anyone got an 802.11g card working? In-Reply-To: <1088784604.2925.7.camel@bart.graham.fdns.net> References: <1088784604.2925.7.camel@bart.graham.fdns.net> Message-ID: <20040702223126.GC32719@patrick.wattle.id.au> Alan Graham wrote: > I've checked the mandrake site for supported hardware, but they don't > give a lot of details, so I'm after war stories. I've never tried a 'g' card working; getting various 'b' cards going has proved to be painful enough for my liking. http://www.linux-wlan.org/docs/wlan_adapters.html.gz is the definitive list of cards with information about Linux drivers though. Cameron. From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Sat Jul 3 10:52:54 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 10:52:54 +0800 Subject: [plug] MIME Types by file contents In-Reply-To: <1088804224.3592.7.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> References: <200407011203.33627@death.2.spammers> <200407022055.10658@death.2.spammers> <1088804224.3592.7.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> Message-ID: <200407031052.54293@death.2.spammers> On Saturday 03 July 2004 05:37, Onno Benschop wrote: > On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 22:55, Bernd Felsche wrote: > > Using "file -bi ~/* | sort -u" > Note of caution. I once had the same problem, but in PHP. My > solution was also to use the file command, but it wasn't working > in Solaris. Then I found out that there are multiple version of > file. Of course. [snip] > All I'm saying is that while I also used file as a solution, it's > evil, bad, subject to breaking and cause for palpitations. It's somewhat less evil than relying on filename extension. And much less evil than simply assuming a file type. Unless one carries reliable, "out-of-band" file-type identification, any method will be less than perfect. Even then; an application fault may cause file content type to be mis-identified. The consequences of mis-identification can be so trivial as not to be noticeable; or can be catastrophic (vis Windows worms). It really depends on the sensitivity of the use of the type identification. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From brad at wasp.net.au Sat Jul 3 10:59:10 2004 From: brad at wasp.net.au (Brad Campbell) Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 06:59:10 +0400 Subject: [plug] Gmail invite Message-ID: <40E620FE.3090704@wasp.net.au> I have one.. want one? Brad From zombie at penguincare.com.au Sat Jul 3 16:05:31 2004 From: zombie at penguincare.com.au (Matt Kemner) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 16:05:31 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] mail flood In-Reply-To: <1088803383.13103.65.camel@rasputin.localnet> Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Jul 2004, quoth Craig Ringer: > (of course, there's going to be some easy dedicated command line tool to > do it like uudecode does). I use "munpack" (and "mpack" is handy for quickly sending a file via email) My only grumble about munpack is that it will only decode one email at a time. Would be really handy if it would strip the attachments out of an entire mbox. I use it daily - I read my email via Pine on the mailserver, and when someone sends me an attachment I want to view, I (B)ounce it to an email account directly on my laptop (junk@) and then use "munpack ~mail/junk" to decode it. Much easier than saving to file, and then copying via scp/ftp, more so when dealing with multiple attachments. - Matt From lee.jamieson at bigpond.com Sat Jul 3 16:50:44 2004 From: lee.jamieson at bigpond.com (Lee Jamieson) Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 16:50:44 +0800 Subject: [plug] mounting logical drives. Message-ID: <40E67364.2060109@bigpond.com> Hiya all, I have made a 5Gb FAT32 partition on my windoze hdd, basically so I can share files and stuff from linux to windows and vis-versa. I am not sure how to get Linux to see the new partition. Would it help if there was a file or something in the partition for Linux to see? I'm going to try and see if I can do it myself via KDE, but am not sure if it'll work. thanks, Lee From caston at arach.net.au Sat Jul 3 17:35:07 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 17:35:07 +0800 Subject: [plug] mounting logical drives. In-Reply-To: <40E67364.2060109@bigpond.com> References: <40E67364.2060109@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <1088847307.2007.3.camel@localhost> On Sat, 2004-07-03 at 16:50, Lee Jamieson wrote: > Hiya all, > > I have made a 5Gb FAT32 partition on my windoze hdd, basically so I can > share files and stuff from linux to windows and vis-versa. > > I am not sure how to get Linux to see the new partition. Would it help > if there was a file or something in the partition for Linux to see? > > I'm going to try and see if I can do it myself via KDE, but am not sure > if it'll work. Are you asking us how to mount a fat partition under Linux? Just make sure there is a mount point for it and specify -t vfat when you mount the drive (eg. /dev/hdc2) eg mount /dev/hdc2 /mnt/windows This is quite easy however being another to write to the partition from a user other than root is more of a gotcha. > thanks, > > Lee > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Sat Jul 3 17:49:07 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 17:49:07 +0800 Subject: [plug] mounting logical drives. In-Reply-To: <1088847307.2007.3.camel@localhost> References: <40E67364.2060109@bigpond.com> <1088847307.2007.3.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20040703094907.GF32719@patrick.wattle.id.au> Chris Caston wrote: > > I have made a 5Gb FAT32 partition on my windoze hdd, basically so I can > > share files and stuff from linux to windows and vis-versa. > > > > I am not sure how to get Linux to see the new partition. Would it help > > if there was a file or something in the partition for Linux to > > see? You need to make a directory somewhere to mount the Windows partition (e.g., /win_e), then put an appropriate line in /etc/fstab to have it mounted automatically. Adding stuff to /etc/fstab will only show up once you reboot; you can mount it manually e.g. 'mount /win_e' after editing fstab to avoid rebooting. > This is quite easy however being another to write to the partition from > a user other than root is more of a gotcha. http://cp.yi.org/lurker/message/20040606.125630.b3da6c8f.html The example that gave for '/usb' contains the right magic options for a fat32 partition. If you want it to be mounted automatically on boot you should remove the 'noauto,' option. 'man mount' and 'man fstab' for the gory getails. Cameron. From quadfour at iinet.net.au Sat Jul 3 18:21:16 2004 From: quadfour at iinet.net.au (Michael Collard) Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 18:21:16 +0800 Subject: [plug] etax and wine Message-ID: <1088850076.28931.3.camel@natalie> I've been able to install and run eTax2004 with winex etc, and I can go through the wizard fine however I cannot submit the return because it complains that my address's state (WA) from the option box it incorrect. Obviously this is a bug of some kind. Has anyone else been able to submit their return with wine(x) and eTax? Regards Michael Collard From bowden at iinet.net.au Sat Jul 3 19:39:43 2004 From: bowden at iinet.net.au (Tim Bowden) Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 19:39:43 +0800 Subject: [plug] DVD players In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1088854782.2592.26.camel@localhost> On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 21:29, John Knight wrote: > .deb packages for all of these proggies are avaialable on the official > websites of each project if you'd prefer to go that way. xine comes in two > parts, the xine-lib and you then pick a UI for the top, the default is best > for most people. MPlayer do not support the binary packages and would prefer > you built from source. IF you need help with it, my article went up today at > linux.com (shameless plug coming): > > http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=04/07/01/1940236 > Thanks for the detailed reply and link to your great Article. An interesting observation from the videolan site, in the debian packages section, they support woody and sid, but claim sarge is to hard to support and you really shouldn't be running sarge unless you know what you're doing. I would have thought sid was the hard one to support. Anyone able to offer more than a guess as to why sarge would be so hard to support? http://www.videolan.org/doc/videolan-howto/en/ch02.html Tim Bowden > cheers! > John > > > >Hi all, > > > >Just a quick question to those who follow the multimedia scene on Linux- > >what is the best DVD player these days and where can I get .deb's for > >it? There are plenty of comparisons on the web, but mostly they are out > >of date due to the rapid rate of development that is going on in this > >area. > > > >Thanks, > >Tim > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get a Virgin Credit Card and win an adventure: > http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;8661322;9498324;s?http://www.promo.com.au/virgincreditcard/firstbirthday/track.cfm?source=N92 > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From caston at arach.net.au Sat Jul 3 19:55:19 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 19:55:19 +0800 Subject: [plug] DVD players In-Reply-To: <1088854782.2592.26.camel@localhost> References: <1088854782.2592.26.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1088855719.2007.12.camel@localhost> On Sat, 2004-07-03 at 19:39, Tim Bowden wrote: > On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 21:29, John Knight wrote: > > > > .deb packages for all of these proggies are avaialable on the official > > websites of each project if you'd prefer to go that way. xine comes in two > > parts, the xine-lib and you then pick a UI for the top, the default is best > > for most people. MPlayer do not support the binary packages and would prefer > > you built from source. IF you need help with it, my article went up today at > > linux.com (shameless plug coming): > > > > http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=04/07/01/1940236 > > > > Thanks for the detailed reply and link to your great Article. > > An interesting observation from the videolan site, in the debian > packages section, they support woody and sid, but claim sarge is to hard > to support and you really shouldn't be running sarge unless you know > what you're doing. I would have thought sid was the hard one to > support. Anyone able to offer more than a guess as to why sarge would > be so hard to support? > I have no idea but it is best to check if the vlc packages are available in your apt sources first and if so get them from there. You will also likely need wxvlc. > http://www.videolan.org/doc/videolan-howto/en/ch02.html > > Tim Bowden > > > cheers! > > John > > > > > > >Hi all, > > > > > >Just a quick question to those who follow the multimedia scene on Linux- > > >what is the best DVD player these days and where can I get .deb's for > > >it? There are plenty of comparisons on the web, but mostly they are out > > >of date due to the rapid rate of development that is going on in this > > >area. > > > > > >Thanks, > > >Tim > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get a Virgin Credit Card and win an adventure: > > http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;8661322;9498324;s?http://www.promo.com.au/virgincreditcard/firstbirthday/track.cfm?source=N92 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From lee.jamieson at bigpond.com Sat Jul 3 20:32:40 2004 From: lee.jamieson at bigpond.com (Lee Jamieson) Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 20:32:40 +0800 Subject: [plug] mounting logical drives. In-Reply-To: <20040703094907.GF32719@patrick.wattle.id.au> References: <40E67364.2060109@bigpond.com> <1088847307.2007.3.camel@localhost> <20040703094907.GF32719@patrick.wattle.id.au> Message-ID: <40E6A768.5080604@bigpond.com> Cameron Patrick wrote: > Chris Caston wrote: > > >>>I have made a 5Gb FAT32 partition on my windoze hdd, basically so I can >>>share files and stuff from linux to windows and vis-versa. >>> >>>I am not sure how to get Linux to see the new partition. Would it help >>>if there was a file or something in the partition for Linux to >>>see? > > > You need to make a directory somewhere to mount the Windows partition > (e.g., /win_e), then put an appropriate line in /etc/fstab to have it > mounted automatically. Adding stuff to /etc/fstab will only show up > once you reboot; you can mount it manually e.g. 'mount /win_e' after > editing fstab to avoid rebooting. > > >>This is quite easy however being another to write to the partition from >>a user other than root is more of a gotcha. > > > http://cp.yi.org/lurker/message/20040606.125630.b3da6c8f.html > > The example that gave for '/usb' contains the right magic options for > a fat32 partition. If you want it to be mounted automatically on boot > you should remove the 'noauto,' option. > > 'man mount' and 'man fstab' for the gory getails. > > Cameron. > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > Heh. It is amazing what you find in the configuration setup section of my distro :) I had a hunch it might be there and looked. I am still very nervous of using the command line, and would rather use a gui interface any time. - Shows my windowz dependance, I suppose. From lee.jamieson at bigpond.com Sat Jul 3 21:14:11 2004 From: lee.jamieson at bigpond.com (Lee Jamieson) Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 21:14:11 +0800 Subject: [plug] yet another newbie question Message-ID: <40E6B123.6050401@bigpond.com> Hiya all - again, I have to install the nvidia binaries from a commandline - the README suggests exiting KDE or GNOME or whatever window manager you are using. I am using KDE and the only way I can think of is to change the auto login and GUI interface at boot. Is this the only way to "kill" kde and get to a proper command line? Lee From bowden at iinet.net.au Sat Jul 3 21:29:12 2004 From: bowden at iinet.net.au (Tim Bowden) Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 21:29:12 +0800 Subject: [plug] DVD players In-Reply-To: <1088855719.2007.12.camel@localhost> References: <1088854782.2592.26.camel@localhost> <1088855719.2007.12.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1088861352.2592.94.camel@localhost> On Sat, 2004-07-03 at 19:55, Chris Caston wrote: > On Sat, 2004-07-03 at 19:39, Tim Bowden wrote: > > On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 21:29, John Knight wrote: > > > > > > > .deb packages for all of these proggies are avaialable on the official > > > websites of each project if you'd prefer to go that way. xine comes in two > > > parts, the xine-lib and you then pick a UI for the top, the default is best > > > for most people. MPlayer do not support the binary packages and would prefer > > > you built from source. IF you need help with it, my article went up today at > > > linux.com (shameless plug coming): > > > > > > http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=04/07/01/1940236 > > > > > > > Thanks for the detailed reply and link to your great Article. > > > > An interesting observation from the videolan site, in the debian > > packages section, they support woody and sid, but claim sarge is to hard > > to support and you really shouldn't be running sarge unless you know > > what you're doing. I would have thought sid was the hard one to > > support. Anyone able to offer more than a guess as to why sarge would > > be so hard to support? > > > > I have no idea but it is best to check if the vlc packages are available > in your apt sources first and if so get them from there. You will also > likely need wxvlc. > > > I'm using the vlc source from sarge (apt-get --compile source vlc), but libdvdcss from the videolan site. Only problem is vlc wants libdv2-dev (dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: libdv2-dev) which the debian site knows nothing about. I've seen lots of other references to libdv2-dev on the web so it must exist in some form or other. Any idea what might be happening? Tim Bowden From bowden at iinet.net.au Sat Jul 3 22:35:46 2004 From: bowden at iinet.net.au (Tim Bowden) Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 22:35:46 +0800 Subject: [plug] yet another newbie question In-Reply-To: <40E6B123.6050401@bigpond.com> References: <40E6B123.6050401@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <1088865346.2610.18.camel@localhost> On Sat, 2004-07-03 at 21:14, Lee Jamieson wrote: > Hiya all - again, > > I have to install the nvidia binaries from a commandline - the README > suggests exiting KDE or GNOME or whatever window manager you are using. > > I am using KDE and the only way I can think of is to change the auto > login and GUI interface at boot. > > Is this the only way to "kill" kde and get to a proper command line? > > Lee Log out of KDE and Alt-Ctrl-F1 to get to a 'text terminal'. Do what needs to be done then Alt-F7 to get back to the graphical login screen. When you log in, a fresh instance of the x server is started. HTH, Tim Bowden From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Sat Jul 3 22:43:55 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 22:43:55 +0800 Subject: [plug] yet another newbie question In-Reply-To: <1088865346.2610.18.camel@localhost> References: <40E6B123.6050401@bigpond.com> <1088865346.2610.18.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20040703144355.GA30618@patrick.wattle.id.au> Tim Bowden wrote: > When you log in, a fresh instance of the x server is started. Not true. You can press Ctrl-Alt-Backspace at the KDM login screen to restart X though. Cameron. From nofixed at westnet.com.au Sat Jul 3 22:58:19 2004 From: nofixed at westnet.com.au (Jim Householder) Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 22:58:19 +0800 Subject: [plug] yet another newbie question In-Reply-To: <1088865346.2610.18.camel@localhost> References: <40E6B123.6050401@bigpond.com> <1088865346.2610.18.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <40E6C98B.6070701@westnet.com.au> > > Log out of KDE and Alt-Ctrl-F1 to get to a 'text terminal'. Do what > needs to be done then Alt-F7 to get back to the graphical login screen. > When you log in, a fresh instance of the x server is started. > > HTH, > Tim Bowden > When installing my nvidia driver I have found that it requires *no* gui running. Your boot manager (lilo or grub probably) normally gives you the option of a single user, expert mode, or similar. These will leave you in a single-user shell logged in as root. I prefer starting kde from a shell (using startx for lack of anything better) rather than logging straight into the gui. I like the flexibility. To do that, you need to edit /etc/inttab and change id:5:initdefault: to id:3:initdefault: unless you are using debian (or a derivative) in which case this won't work because run levels 2 - 5 are all treated the same. (one of the reasons I stopped using debian...). HTH Jim From bowden at iinet.net.au Sat Jul 3 23:09:05 2004 From: bowden at iinet.net.au (Tim Bowden) Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 23:09:05 +0800 Subject: [plug] yet another newbie question In-Reply-To: <20040703144355.GA30618@patrick.wattle.id.au> References: <40E6B123.6050401@bigpond.com> <1088865346.2610.18.camel@localhost> <20040703144355.GA30618@patrick.wattle.id.au> Message-ID: <1088867345.2610.21.camel@localhost> On Sat, 2004-07-03 at 22:43, Cameron Patrick wrote: > Tim Bowden wrote: > > When you log in, a fresh instance of the x server is started. > > Not true. You can press Ctrl-Alt-Backspace at the KDM login screen to > restart X though. > > Cameron. > > Good thing there are lots of experts on plug... Tim Bowden From senectus at gmail.com Sat Jul 3 23:30:10 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 23:30:10 +0800 Subject: [plug] etax and wine In-Reply-To: <1088850076.28931.3.camel@natalie> References: <1088850076.28931.3.camel@natalie> Message-ID: I haven't tried this, but are you using winex or cedega 4.0 ? -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From quadfour at iinet.net.au Sun Jul 4 01:16:08 2004 From: quadfour at iinet.net.au (Michael Collard) Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 01:16:08 +0800 Subject: [plug] etax and wine In-Reply-To: References: <1088850076.28931.3.camel@natalie> Message-ID: <1088874968.5777.0.camel@natalie> On Sat, 2004-07-03 at 23:30, Senectus . wrote: > I haven't tried this, but are you using winex or cedega 4.0 ? Thought the above were the same? Using CVS from transgaming.org, same as always. Regards Michael Collard From senectus at gmail.com Sun Jul 4 08:15:28 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 08:15:28 +0800 Subject: [plug] etax and wine In-Reply-To: <1088874968.5777.0.camel@natalie> References: <1088850076.28931.3.camel@natalie> <1088874968.5777.0.camel@natalie> Message-ID: The CVS at transgaming (as far as I understand it) is not the new cedega 4.0 but the CVS version of wineX 3.3.2 right before the swap took place... On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 01:16:08 +0800, Michael Collard wrote: > On Sat, 2004-07-03 at 23:30, Senectus . wrote: > > I haven't tried this, but are you using winex or cedega 4.0 ? > > Thought the above were the same? Using CVS from transgaming.org, same as > always. > > > > Regards > Michael Collard > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From quadfour at iinet.net.au Sun Jul 4 08:42:04 2004 From: quadfour at iinet.net.au (Michael) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 08:42:04 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] etax and wine In-Reply-To: References: <1088850076.28931.3.camel@natalie> <1088874968.5777.0.camel@natalie> Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Jul 2004, Senectus . wrote: Well the CVS is still being updated so I don't think it's different. Can anyone verify this? Regards Michael Collard > The CVS at transgaming (as far as I understand it) is not the new > cedega 4.0 but the CVS version of wineX 3.3.2 right before the swap > took place... > > > On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 01:16:08 +0800, Michael Collard > wrote: > > On Sat, 2004-07-03 at 23:30, Senectus . wrote: > > > I haven't tried this, but are you using winex or cedega 4.0 ? > > > > Thought the above were the same? Using CVS from transgaming.org, same as > > always. > > > > > > > > Regards > > Michael Collard > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > > > From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Sun Jul 4 09:28:55 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 09:28:55 +0800 Subject: [plug] mail flood In-Reply-To: References: <1088803383.13103.65.camel@rasputin.localnet> Message-ID: <20040704012855.GA8559@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <1088803383.13103.65.camel at rasputin.localnet> on Sat, Jul 03, 2004 at 05:23:04AM +0800, Craig Ringer wrote: > Aaah, a little more digging reveals that it's Zafi.B . Thanks for the analysis. Just looking at UWA's stats, its peak receipts of Zafi.B appear to have been in second-last week of June (76000 in one day, compared to 35000 on Friday and 24000 on Saturday). Maybe you were just unlucky :-) I am, however, receiving lots of extra spam at one of my unused address: the address seems to receive sudden batches of about 30 messages, rather than a steady stream. Maybe spammers are offering "off peak" rates to their clients ;-) From russ at powerstech.com Sun Jul 4 11:48:20 2004 From: russ at powerstech.com (Russ Powers) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 11:48:20 +0800 Subject: [plug] mounting logical drives. In-Reply-To: <40E6A768.5080604@bigpond.com> References: <40E67364.2060109@bigpond.com> <20040703094907.GF32719@patrick.wattle.id.au> <40E6A768.5080604@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <200407041148.20944.russ@powerstech.com> On Sat, 3 Jul 2004 08:32 pm, Lee Jamieson wrote: > Heh. It is amazing what you find in the configuration setup section of > my distro :) I had a hunch it might be there and looked. > > I am still very nervous of using the command line, and would rather use > a gui interface any time. - Shows my windowz dependance, I suppose. In that case you might want to use the KDE Control Center (K menu->settings->Control Center). Select 'Desktop', then 'Behavior', then the 'Device Icons' tab and check the 'Show Device Icons' box. Your desktop will then have icons for all of mount points in you fstab file that you can just click on to mount and open up in a kongueror. > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -- Regards, Russ From anarchist_tomato at hotmail.com Sun Jul 4 12:52:38 2004 From: anarchist_tomato at hotmail.com (John Knight) Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 12:52:38 +0800 Subject: [plug] DVD players Message-ID: No worries. Any excuse for a rant and some shameless self promotion. ;) > > http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=04/07/01/1940236 > > > >Thanks for the detailed reply and link to your great Article. _________________________________________________________________ Find love today with ninemsn personals. Click here: http://ninemsn.match.com?referrer=hotmailtagline From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Sun Jul 4 16:21:55 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 16:21:55 +0800 Subject: [plug] yet another newbie question In-Reply-To: <40E6B123.6050401@bigpond.com> References: <40E6B123.6050401@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <40E7BE23.8090805@postnewspapers.com.au> Lee Jamieson wrote: > I have to install the nvidia binaries from a commandline - the README > suggests exiting KDE or GNOME or whatever window manager you are using. > > I am using KDE and the only way I can think of is to change the auto > login and GUI interface at boot. > > Is this the only way to "kill" kde and get to a proper command line? Nope. Hit CTL-ALT-F1 to get to a text console and log in there. su to root and run the following command: init 1 to drop your system to single-user mode. On most non-Debian-derived distros, "init 3" will turn off X and do little else, so you can use that insead if you're not using Debian. Debian users can just /etc/init.d/[gkx]dm stop instead. Still working as root, install the NVidia drivers. Once that's done, you can bring your system back up and keep working without rebooting: init 5 (redhat derived systems) /etc/init.d/[gkx]dm start (debian derived systems) or you can reboot. There should never be any need to alter inittab just to shut down X! -- Craig Ringer From myk at westnet.com.au Sun Jul 4 17:25:01 2004 From: myk at westnet.com.au (Michael Holland) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 17:25:01 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Anyone got an 802.11g card working? In-Reply-To: <1088784604.2925.7.camel@bart.graham.fdns.net> References: <1088784604.2925.7.camel@bart.graham.fdns.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Jul 2004, Alan Graham wrote: > different story). I decided to use this as an excuse to install an > access point, climb up onto the roof with an antenna, join freenet... > etc. > > I've checked the mandrake site for supported hardware, but they don't If you are using an access point, then it's no trouble. Ethernet interface and http/html configuration, as for ADSL modems. However, there doesnt seem to be any point using 'G' versions for freenet. Looking at the specs, the give higher speed at short range, but no extra range at 'b' speeds. 802.11b cards are better supported in Linux. -- Reading this .sig? So are your customers. From bernard at blackham.com.au Sun Jul 4 19:53:25 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 19:53:25 +0800 Subject: [plug] 2.6.7 no network? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040704115325.GM29809@blackham.com.au> On Fri, Jul 02, 2004 at 03:50:45PM +0000, Mungo TheB wrote: > any ideas why 2.4 2.5 2.6 2.6.6 my netcards work > > but not any version of 2.6.7 Nope. Telling us what the network cards are and what drivers you're using and what kind of not workingness would help though :) And also, which versions of 2.6.7? (Do you mean the -mm/-ac branches etc?) Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From leon at brooks.fdns.net Sun Jul 4 22:26:07 2004 From: leon at brooks.fdns.net (Leon Brooks) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 22:26:07 +0800 Subject: [plug] live desktop wallpaper In-Reply-To: <1088720441.12020.3.camel@rattus.Localdomain> References: <1088720441.12020.3.camel@rattus.Localdomain> Message-ID: <200407042226.07893.leon@brooks.fdns.net> On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 06:20, William Kenworthy wrote: > Saw an WinXP desktop yesterday that had a copy of the perth weather > radar map embedded as the wallpaper, being updated live. Like this? http://cyberknights.com.au/kwebdesktop-BOM.png > This seemed to be under the control of a running application - I > presume linux (I use gnome) can do the same but how? It's KDE, but... right-click, Configure, Background, Advanced, kwebdesktop, Modify. Cheers; Leon From Adrian at Diskworld.com.au Tue Jul 6 05:05:54 2004 From: Adrian at Diskworld.com.au (Adrian Woodley) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 05:05:54 +0800 Subject: [plug] Anyone got an 802.11g card working? In-Reply-To: <1088784604.2925.7.camel@bart.graham.fdns.net> References: <1088784604.2925.7.camel@bart.graham.fdns.net> Message-ID: <40E9C2B2.9020001@Diskworld.com.au> Alan Graham wrote: > I've installed Mandrake 10 on my laptop and it doesn't recognise my > ethernet card (works fine under 9.0, 9.1 and 9.2.. but that's a > different story). I decided to use this as an excuse to install an > access point, climb up onto the roof with an antenna, join freenet... > etc. > > I've checked the mandrake site for supported hardware, but they don't > give a lot of details, so I'm after war stories. Anyone got one of > these beasts working? Was it painful/ I have a netcomm NP5430 (http://www.netcomm.com.au/WIRELESS_Adaptor.php) for my laptop. Its pretty well supported under Linux, although I have been having some trouble with it (this is most likely my dodgy laptop/kernel though). The latest 2.6 kernel certainly has support for prism54 cards. Prism54.org has a list of compatible cards:- http://prism54.org/supported_cards.php Regards, Adrian From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Mon Jul 5 01:57:57 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 01:57:57 +0800 Subject: [plug] MIME Types by file contents In-Reply-To: <1088771445.11818.10.camel@rasputin.localnet> References: <200407011203.33627@death.2.spammers> <200407020025.26027@death.2.spammers> <1088771445.11818.10.camel@rasputin.localnet> Message-ID: <200407050157.57463@death.2.spammers> I've almost finished the Python MIME mailer. One problem I encountered was with the known MIME types having dubious mappings to filename extensions. The code works around that by using it's own "definitive" map of MIME type to extension. The other problem that I've encountered and not yet resolved is with the Python email module not liking news articles in particular. I get a bunch of errors like: bernie at pinion:~> python bin/maildoc.py bernie < z25 Traceback (most recent call last): File "bin/maildoc.py", line 143, in ? if __name__ == '__main__': main() File "bin/maildoc.py", line 140, in main os.popen("/usr/sbin/sendmail -t","w").write(message.as_string()) File "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/email/Message.py", line 107, in as_string File "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 100, in flatten File "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 128, in _write File "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 154, in _dispatch File "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 243, in _handle_multipart File "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 100, in flatten File "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 128, in _write File "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 154, in _dispatch File "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 302, in _handle_message File "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/email/Message.py", line 179, in get_payload TypeError: 0 whenever I feed it a saved news item. It'll probably hiccup on email as well. Other than that, it seems to handle any other input reliably; though I've not done any cross-platform stuff yet. See the attached bugfest for details. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: maildoc.py Type: text/x-python Size: 3602 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- application/EDI-Consent edi application/EDI-X12 edix12 application/EDIFACT edifact application/andrew-inset ez application/cu-seeme csm application/excel xls application/mac-binhex40 hqx application/mac-compactpro cpt application/msword doc application/netscape-ps ps application/octet-stream bin application/oda oda application/pdf pdf application/pgp-signature pgp application/postscript ps application/powerpoint ppt application/rtf rtf application/sdp sdp application/sgml sgml application/sieve sieve application/smil smil application/vnd.hp-HPGL hpgl application/vnd.hp-PCL pcl application/vnd.hp-PCLXL pclxl application/vnd.mif mif application/vnd.ms-excel xls application/vnd.ms-powerpoint ppt application/vnd.ms-tnef tnef application/vnd.rn-realmedia rm application/vnd.visio visio application/vnd.wap.wbxml wbxml application/vnd.wap.wmlc wmlc application/vnd.wap.wmlscriptc wmlsc application/wordperfect5.1 wp5 application/x-123 wk application/x-Wingz wz application/x-bcpio bcpio application/x-bzip2 bz2 application/x-cdlink vcd application/x-chess-pgn pgn application/x-compress z application/x-cpio cpio application/x-csh csh application/x-cshell csh application/x-debian-package deb application/x-director dir application/x-dvi dvi application/x-futuresplash spl application/x-gtar gtar application/x-gunzip gz application/x-gzip gz application/x-hdf hdf application/x-httpd-php phtml application/x-javascript js application/x-kchart chrt application/x-koan skp application/x-kpresenter kpr application/x-kspread ksp application/x-kword kwd application/x-latex latex application/x-maker frm application/x-mif mif application/x-msdos-program com application/x-netcdf cdf application/x-ns-proxy-autoconfig pac application/x-perl pl application/x-rad rad application/x-rpm rpm application/x-sdp sdp application/x-sh sh application/x-shar shar application/x-shell sh application/x-shockwave-flash swf application/x-shockwave-flash2-preview swf application/x-stuffit sit application/x-sv4cpio sv4cpio application/x-sv4crc sv4crc application/x-tar tar application/x-tcl tcl application/x-texinfo texi application/x-troff t application/x-troff-man man application/x-troff-me me application/x-troff-ms ms application/x-ustar ustar application/x-wais-source src application/xhtml+xml xhtml application/xml xml application/xml-dtd dtd application/zip zip audio/basic au audio/midi midi audio/mpeg mpga audio/vnd.rn-realaudio ra audio/x-aiff aiff audio/x-mpegurl m3u audio/x-pn-realaudio ram audio/x-pn-realaudio-plugin rpm audio/x-realaudio ra audio/x-wav wav chemical/x-pdb pdb chemical/x-xyz xyz image/bmp bmp image/cgm cgn image/fpx fpx image/g3fax g3 image/gif gif image/ief ief image/jpeg jpeg image/png png image/tiff tiff image/vnd.djvu djvu image/vnd.dwg dwg image/vnd.dxf dxf image/vnd.fpx fpx image/vnd.fst fst image/vnd.net-fpx fpx image/vnd.rn-realflash swf image/vnd.rn-realpix rp image/vnd.svf svf image/vnd.wap.wbmp wbmp image/vnd.xiff xiff image/x-alias pix image/x-bitmap bmp image/x-cmu-raster ras image/x-photocd pcd image/x-portable-anymap pnm image/x-portable-bitmap pbm image/x-portable-graymap pgm image/x-portable-pixmap ppm image/x-rgb rgb image/x-sgi-rgb rgb image/x-sun-raster ras image/x-xbitmap xbm image/x-xpixmap xpm image/x-xwindowdump xwd message/news news message/rfc822 rfc822 message/s-http shttp model/iges iges model/mesh mesh model/vnd.dwf dwf model/vnd.flatland.3dml 3dml model/vnd.gdl gdl model/vnd.gtw gtw model/vnd.mts mts model/vnd.vtu vtu model/vrml vrml text/calendar cal text/css css text/html html text/plain txt text/rfc822-headers .rfc822 text/richtext rtx text/rtf rtf text/sgml sgml text/tab-separated-values tsv text/vnd.rn-realtext rt text/vnd.wap.wml wml text/vnd.wap.wmlscript wmls text/x-setext etx text/x-vCalendar vcs text/x-vCard vcf text/xml xml video/dl dl video/fli fli video/gl gl video/mpeg mpeg video/quicktime qt video/vnd.fvt fvt video/vnd.mpegurl mxu video/vnd.rn-realvideo rv video/vnd.vivo vivo video/x-msvideo avi video/x-sgi-movie movie x-conference/x-cooltalk ice x-world/x-vrml vrml From billk at iinet.net.au Mon Jul 5 06:48:08 2004 From: billk at iinet.net.au (William Kenworthy) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 06:48:08 +0800 Subject: [plug] live desktop wallpaper In-Reply-To: <200407042226.07893.leon@brooks.fdns.net> References: <1088720441.12020.3.camel@rattus.Localdomain> <200407042226.07893.leon@brooks.fdns.net> Message-ID: <1088981288.7015.11.camel@rattus.Localdomain> or this http://wdk.dyndns.org/Screenshot.png Whilst the shell command I did earlier works perfectly, auto scaling and a bit more flexibility and adding features will dictate perl-ising it. Nice if gnome had built in something like kde, but I cant find it and gnome does seem on some kind of crusade to limit usability at the moment (nautilus's multi-window approach is very similar to MSwindows explorer multi-window default, just harder to find and turn off), but a re-visit to kde had me back in gnome after a few days - I think because of familiarity rather than anything specific. BillK On Sun, 2004-07-04 at 22:26, Leon Brooks wrote: > On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 06:20, William Kenworthy wrote: > > Saw an WinXP desktop yesterday that had a copy of the perth weather > > radar map embedded as the wallpaper, being updated live. > > Like this? > > http://cyberknights.com.au/kwebdesktop-BOM.png > > > This seemed to be under the control of a running application - I > > presume linux (I use gnome) can do the same but how? > > It's KDE, but... right-click, Configure, Background, Advanced, > kwebdesktop, Modify. > > Cheers; Leon From caston at arach.net.au Mon Jul 5 10:41:59 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 10:41:59 +0800 Subject: [plug] strange modprobe using up cpu? Message-ID: <1088995318.2015.5.camel@localhost> Hello, I'm running Debian sid with kernel 2.6.3-1386 #2. For some reason occasionally I notice my usually snappy UI slow to a crawl. By the time I open and xterm and type in top I just manage to see modprobe using up 80-90% cpu. The following from kern.log *may* be related: Jul 5 10:35:57 localhost kernel: mcd: initialisation failed - No mcd device at 0x300 irq 11 Jul 5 10:35:57 localhost kernel: mcd: Initialization failed, I/O port (300) already in use Jul 5 10:35:58 localhost kernel: SJCD: Sanyo CDR-H94A cdrom driver version 1.7. Jul 5 10:35:58 localhost kernel: SJCD: Resetting: .......... reset failed, no drive found. Jul 5 10:35:58 localhost kernel: Trying to free nonexistent resource <00000340-00000343> Jul 5 10:35:59 localhost kernel: SJCD: Sanyo CDR-H94A cdrom driver version 1.7. Jul 5 10:35:59 localhost kernel: SJCD: Resetting: .......... reset failed, no drive found. Jul 5 10:35:59 localhost kernel: Trying to free nonexistent resource <00000340-00000343> Jul 5 10:36:16 localhost kernel: optcd: unknown drive detected; aborting Jul 5 10:36:33 localhost kernel: optcd: unknown drive detected; aborting Any ideas? Thanks, Chris From michael.j.hunt at usa.net Mon Jul 5 12:03:49 2004 From: michael.j.hunt at usa.net (Michael Hunt) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 12:03:49 +0800 Subject: [plug] live desktop wallpaper In-Reply-To: <1088981288.7015.11.camel@rattus.Localdomain> References: <1088720441.12020.3.camel@rattus.Localdomain> <200407042226.07893.leon@brooks.fdns.net> <1088981288.7015.11.camel@rattus.Localdomain> Message-ID: <1089000229.16385.3.camel@gilgal> On Mon, 2004-07-05 at 06:48 +0800, William Kenworthy wrote: > or this http://wdk.dyndns.org/Screenshot.png Just out of interest what icon set are you using ??? I haven't seen them before and I was wondering if it was something you had done. Michael Hunt From billk at iinet.net.au Mon Jul 5 13:16:12 2004 From: billk at iinet.net.au (Bill Kenworthy) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 13:16:12 +0800 Subject: [plug] live desktop wallpaper In-Reply-To: <1089000229.16385.3.camel@gilgal> References: <1088720441.12020.3.camel@rattus.Localdomain> <200407042226.07893.leon@brooks.fdns.net> <1088981288.7015.11.camel@rattus.Localdomain> <1089000229.16385.3.camel@gilgal> Message-ID: <1089004572.16226.9.camel@cbbcbitl303c.murdoch.edu.au> Theyre a set done for gentoo ~12 months ago - they look quite nice: http://www.gentoo.org/dyn/icons.xml There is a tarball of all of them at the bottom pf the page. Think I'll update mine since they were the first set released and this looks a lot bigger now. BillK On Mon, 2004-07-05 at 12:03, Michael Hunt wrote: > On Mon, 2004-07-05 at 06:48 +0800, William Kenworthy wrote: > > > or this http://wdk.dyndns.org/Screenshot.png > > Just out of interest what icon set are you using ??? I haven't seen them > before and I was wondering if it was something you had done. > > Michael Hunt > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au From T.Phillips at murdoch.edu.au Mon Jul 5 13:46:58 2004 From: T.Phillips at murdoch.edu.au (Trevor Phillips) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 13:46:58 +0800 Subject: [plug] ADSL: Hardware Gateways vs Linux Message-ID: <200407051346.58779.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> I'm preparing to take the ADSL plunge (FINALLY), and have started looking at what ADSL Modems and variants thereof are available. In particular, since I'll probably sign up with Westnet, I've been looking at what hardware they offer: http://www.westnet.com.au/products/broadband/adsl/hardware.shtm First up - how do these ADSL Hardware routers compare to a Linux Box for firewall & NAT support? I'm guessing that Linux has the advantage of being fully customisable, upgradeable, & patchable, but how much advantage (if any) is that compared to a dedicated hardware solution? I could go with a simple ADSL Modem, whack a second net card in the Linux server (current dial-up server - really needs some maintenance done on config tho), or I could go with one of the ones with 4-port, and demote my Linux server to a file/web server. The other consideration is whether to take the opportunity to take the plunge into Wireless, and get an ADSL Modem which also doubles as a Wireless Access Point. The main concern is if the range will stretch from the study at one end of the house, through multiple walls to the other end of the house. How's the range on these sort of SOHO products? Lastly - what are the Netcomm's like which Westnet offer? (See above link). The PDF brochures all read rather well, but then, not having networking as a specialty field, a lot of the acronyms go over my head. ^_^ (Although the spec sheet for the Netcomm 5580W wireless one reads a lot like a Linux feature-set. Anyone know if it's really an embedded linux device?) Any other gotcha's or advice on hardware and configuration? -- . Trevor Phillips - http://jurai.murdoch.edu.au/ . : Web Technical Administrator - T.Phillips at murdoch.edu.au : | IT Services - Murdoch University | >--------------------------------------------------------------------< | On nights such as this, evil deeds are done. And good deeds, of / | course. But mostly evil, on the whole. / \ -- (Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters) / From billk at iinet.net.au Mon Jul 5 14:08:47 2004 From: billk at iinet.net.au (Bill Kenworthy) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 14:08:47 +0800 Subject: [plug] ADSL: Hardware Gateways vs Linux In-Reply-To: <200407051346.58779.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> References: <200407051346.58779.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> Message-ID: <1089007727.16200.17.camel@cbbcbitl303c.murdoch.edu.au> I have used a netcomm ADSL router to "protect" some windows machines. Found it flakey (hard lockups), very poor tech support (via India?), inflexible and limited functionality compared to a linux box, but almost foolproof. (hint: search the web for the model number first - wish I had done that before, not after we bought it! I would use it again (but not a netcom product), esp. for inexperienced home users, but I'll stick to my own builds for myself, and I think most "geek" users would say the same. BillK On Mon, 2004-07-05 at 13:46, Trevor Phillips wrote: > I'm preparing to take the ADSL plunge (FINALLY), and have started looking at > what ADSL Modems and variants thereof are available. In particular, since > I'll probably sign up with Westnet, I've been looking at what hardware they > offer: > http://www.westnet.com.au/products/broadband/adsl/hardware.shtm > > First up - how do these ADSL Hardware routers compare to a Linux Box for > firewall & NAT support? I'm guessing that Linux has the advantage of being > fully customisable, upgradeable, & patchable, but how much advantage (if any) > is that compared to a dedicated hardware solution? I could go with a simple > ADSL Modem, whack a second net card in the Linux server (current dial-up > server - really needs some maintenance done on config tho), or I could go > with one of the ones with 4-port, and demote my Linux server to a file/web > server. > > The other consideration is whether to take the opportunity to take the plunge > into Wireless, and get an ADSL Modem which also doubles as a Wireless Access > Point. The main concern is if the range will stretch from the study at one > end of the house, through multiple walls to the other end of the house. How's > the range on these sort of SOHO products? > > Lastly - what are the Netcomm's like which Westnet offer? (See above link). > The PDF brochures all read rather well, but then, not having networking as a > specialty field, a lot of the acronyms go over my head. ^_^ (Although the > spec sheet for the Netcomm 5580W wireless one reads a lot like a Linux > feature-set. Anyone know if it's really an embedded linux device?) > > Any other gotcha's or advice on hardware and configuration? From caston at arach.net.au Mon Jul 5 14:37:54 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 14:37:54 +0800 Subject: [plug] ADSL: Hardware Gateways vs Linux In-Reply-To: <200407051346.58779.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> References: <200407051346.58779.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> Message-ID: <1089009474.2015.41.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2004-07-05 at 13:46, Trevor Phillips wrote: > I'm preparing to take the ADSL plunge (FINALLY), Well done. > and have started looking at > what ADSL Modems and variants thereof are available. In particular, since > I'll probably sign up with Westnet, I've been looking at what hardware they > offer: > http://www.westnet.com.au/products/broadband/adsl/hardware.shtm > > First up - how do these ADSL Hardware routers compare to a Linux Box for > firewall & NAT support? I'm guessing that Linux has the advantage of being > fully customisable, upgradeable, & patchable, but how much advantage (if any) > is that compared to a dedicated hardware solution? Well the adsl modem has no hdd, psu or other fans that could fail. If you use old PC hardware these things will almost certainly fail. It also requires less power should you let it run off a UPS. If you go with a PC you will need to buy the adsl modem anyway and run it in bridged mode. ADSL modems are getting more and more sophisticated with QoS, IP throttling, VPN client/server, dns-dyns, more advanced firewalls, virtual servers etc. At the moment the real reason for having a dedicated firewall I could see if different network segments each feeding from a different nic. Of course if you want to learn about and use IPtables and use various Linux monitoring tools and scripts and want something that know know is opensource and can trust then you will probably need a Linux box. I look forward to the day when someone releases a Linux powered adsl modem. > I could go with a simple > ADSL Modem, whack a second net card in the Linux server (current dial-up > server - really needs some maintenance done on config tho), or I could go > with one of the ones with 4-port, and demote my Linux server to a file/web > server. > You could. > The other consideration is whether to take the opportunity to take the plunge > into Wireless, and get an ADSL Modem which also doubles as a Wireless Access > Point. Be careful with these. I've been having serious problems with the wireless component of the Billion 7402w. It may be better to get a separate access point. When the whole product is the wireless access point they are going to put more effort into making it good than if the wireless is just a "feature" of an adsl modem. > The main concern is if the range will stretch from the study at one > end of the house, through multiple walls to the other end of the house. How's > the range on these sort of SOHO products? > Much less when going through walls. You may need a repeater or even just run some cable. It's not that hard. In fact it's far easier to install sockets than it is to crimp cable. > Lastly - what are the Netcomm's like which Westnet offer? (See above link). > The PDF brochures all read rather well, but then, not having networking as a > specialty field, a lot of the acronyms go over my head. ^_^ (Although the > spec sheet for the Netcomm 5580W wireless one reads a lot like a Linux > feature-set. Anyone know if it's really an embedded linux device?) > Not sure about Netcomms but try the LINKSYS WRT54G, 802.11G, 11/54Mbps Wireless-G Router. It runs Linux and you can use it to run a Linux of your choice providing it has a small footprint. > Any other gotcha's or advice on hardware and configuration? From r.steicke at bom.gov.au Mon Jul 5 15:06:34 2004 From: r.steicke at bom.gov.au (Russell Steicke) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 15:06:34 +0800 Subject: [plug] ADSL: Hardware Gateways vs Linux In-Reply-To: <1089009474.2015.41.camel@localhost> References: <200407051346.58779.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <1089009474.2015.41.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20040705070634.GL11731@postoffice.wa.bom.gov.au> On Mon, Jul 05, 2004 at 02:37:54PM +0800, Chris Caston wrote: ... > Not sure about Netcomms but try the LINKSYS WRT54G, 802.11G, 11/54Mbps > Wireless-G Router. It runs Linux and you can use it to run a Linux of > your choice providing it has a small footprint. This firmware (which is linux): http://www.sveasoft.com/modules/phpBB2/index.php seems to have a good reputation. I haven't tried it, but plan to do that soon. -- Russell Steicke -- Fortune says: Somewhere, just out of sight, the unicorns are gathering. From quadfour at iinet.net.au Mon Jul 5 15:15:05 2004 From: quadfour at iinet.net.au (Michael) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 15:15:05 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] ADSL: Hardware Gateways vs Linux In-Reply-To: <200407051346.58779.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> References: <200407051346.58779.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Jul 2004, Trevor Phillips wrote: > > I'm preparing to take the ADSL plunge (FINALLY), and have started looking at > what ADSL Modems and variants thereof are available. In particular, since > I'll probably sign up with Westnet, I've been looking at what hardware they > offer: > http://www.westnet.com.au/products/broadband/adsl/hardware.shtm > > First up - how do these ADSL Hardware routers compare to a Linux Box for > firewall & NAT support? I'm guessing that Linux has the advantage of being > fully customisable, upgradeable, & patchable, but how much advantage (if any) > is that compared to a dedicated hardware solution? I could go with a simple > ADSL Modem, whack a second net card in the Linux server (current dial-up > server - really needs some maintenance done on config tho), or I could go > with one of the ones with 4-port, and demote my Linux server to a file/web > server. > > The other consideration is whether to take the opportunity to take the plunge > into Wireless, and get an ADSL Modem which also doubles as a Wireless Access > Point. The main concern is if the range will stretch from the study at one > end of the house, through multiple walls to the other end of the house. How's > the range on these sort of SOHO products? > > Lastly - what are the Netcomm's like which Westnet offer? (See above link). > The PDF brochures all read rather well, but then, not having networking as a > specialty field, a lot of the acronyms go over my head. ^_^ (Although the > spec sheet for the Netcomm 5580W wireless one reads a lot like a Linux > feature-set. Anyone know if it's really an embedded linux device?) > > Any other gotcha's or advice on hardware and configuration? IMHO, you just can't go wrong with Linux and an ADSL modem. My job is tech support and alot of that is with ADSL. As something I've generally found, all ADSL routers lock up at some time or another. The single exception I've found is Cisco. I have seen almost everything else fall over. I myself have an ADSL modem and Linux connecting and doing NAT etc, and this never fails, its always there. Then again, people tell me that Webexcel routers are great, so all of this is really just my opinion. Regards Michael Collard From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Mon Jul 5 15:44:51 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 15:44:51 +0800 Subject: [plug] strange modprobe using up cpu? In-Reply-To: <1088995318.2015.5.camel@localhost> References: <1088995318.2015.5.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <40E906F3.3080904@postnewspapers.com.au> Chris Caston wrote: > For some reason occasionally I notice my usually snappy UI slow to a > crawl. By the time I open and xterm and type in top I just manage to see > modprobe using up 80-90% cpu. > > The following from kern.log *may* be related: A guess: something is scanning /dev for something, and modprobe is "helpfully" trying to load a bunch of kernel modules that might be related to whatever device node the access attempt is on. -- Craig Ringer From shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au Mon Jul 5 15:56:46 2004 From: shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au (Shayne O'Neill) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 15:56:46 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] strange modprobe using up cpu? In-Reply-To: <40E906F3.3080904@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: I'm getting this too! 2.2 kernel on woody (Currently updating to 2.4) In the morning, the machine was dead dead dead, so I had to powerswitch reboot (ugh... ) being 2.2, the machine was only ext2, so I'm currently trying to up to 2.4 and an ext3 journal for sanity sake in reboot. but on bootup I got this;- Jul 5 22:29:58 yourguild kernel: eth1: 21041 Media table, default media 0800 (Autosense). Jul 5 22:29:58 yourguild kernel: eth1: 21041 media #0, 10baseT. Jul 5 22:29:58 yourguild kernel: eth1: 21041 media #1, 10base2. Jul 5 22:29:58 yourguild kernel: eth1: 21041 media #2, AUI. Jul 5 22:29:58 yourguild kernel: eth1: 21041 media #4, 10baseT-FDX. Jul 5 22:29:58 yourguild kernel: eth0: 21143 10baseT link beat good. Jul 5 22:34:18 yourguild kernel: VFS: file-max limit 4096 reached Jul 5 22:34:20 yourguild kernel: kmod: failed to exec /sbin/modprobe -s -k net-pf-10, errno = 23 Jul 5 22:34:24 yourguild kernel: kmod: runaway modprobe loop assumed and stopped Jul 5 22:34:24 yourguild last message repeated 4 times Jul 5 22:34:24 yourguild kernel: kmod: failed to exec /sbin/modprobe -s -k net-pf-10, errno = 23 Jul 5 22:34:46 yourguild kernel: Unable to load interpreter /lib/ld-linux.so.2 Jul 5 22:34:55 yourguild kernel: Unable to load interpreter /lib/ld-linux.so.2 Jul 5 22:36:18 yourguild kernel: Unable to load interpreter /lib/ld-linux.so.2 Jul 5 22:36:52 yourguild kernel: Unable to load interpreter /lib/ld-linux.so.2 Jul 5 22:37:48 yourguild last message repeated 3 times Jul 5 22:38:48 yourguild kernel: Unable to load interpreter /lib/ld-linux.so.2 Jul 5 22:44:12 yourguild kernel: Unable to load interpreter /lib/ld-linux.so.2 Jul 5 22:46:53 yourguild kernel: Unable to load interpreter /lib/ld-linux.so.2 Jul 5 23:01:42 yourguild kernel: Unable to load interpreter /lib/ld-linux.so.2 Jul 5 23:01:49 yourguild kernel: Unable to load interpreter /lib/ld-linux.so.2 Jul 5 23:03:40 yourguild last message repeated 3 times Jul 5 23:04:14 yourguild kernel: Unable to load interpreter /lib/ld-linux.so.2 I wonder if its a worm/vunerability. Its odd you are having mental case modprobe freakouts at the same time..... -- "the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 27, 2003 Shayne O'Neill. http://www.perthimc.asn.au On Mon, 5 Jul 2004, Craig Ringer wrote: > Chris Caston wrote: > > > For some reason occasionally I notice my usually snappy UI slow to a > > crawl. By the time I open and xterm and type in top I just manage to see > > modprobe using up 80-90% cpu. > > > > The following from kern.log *may* be related: > > A guess: something is scanning /dev for something, and modprobe is > "helpfully" trying to load a bunch of kernel modules that might be > related to whatever device node the access attempt is on. > > -- > Craig Ringer > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From zombie at penguincare.com.au Mon Jul 5 16:20:30 2004 From: zombie at penguincare.com.au (Matt Kemner) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 16:20:30 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] strange modprobe using up cpu? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Jul 2004, quoth Shayne O'Neill: > I'm getting this too! 2.2 kernel on woody (Currently updating to 2.4) Good idea! 2.2 is positively ancient. > Jul 5 22:34:18 yourguild kernel: VFS: file-max limit 4096 reached [...] > Jul 5 22:34:20 yourguild kernel: kmod: failed to exec /sbin/modprobe -s > -k net-pf-10, errno = 23 > Jul 5 22:34:24 yourguild kernel: kmod: runaway modprobe loop assumed and > stopped > Jul 5 22:34:46 yourguild kernel: Unable to load interpreter > I wonder if its a worm/vunerability. Its odd you are having mental case > modprobe freakouts at the same time..... Your error is different from Chris's The important line here is the "file-max limit 4096 reached" You need to tweak your /proc/sys/fs/file-max and inode-max values, or upgrade to a more modern kernel, which you are :) You have run out and as a result you are unable to fork any more processes - so the kernel can't run modprobe, and other processes are unable to fork ("Unable to load interpreter") - Matt From caston at arach.net.au Mon Jul 5 16:45:11 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 16:45:11 +0800 Subject: [plug] strange modprobe using up cpu? In-Reply-To: <40E906F3.3080904@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <1088995318.2015.5.camel@localhost> <40E906F3.3080904@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <1089017111.2015.49.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2004-07-05 at 15:44, Craig Ringer wrote: > Chris Caston wrote: > > > For some reason occasionally I notice my usually snappy UI slow to a > > crawl. By the time I open and xterm and type in top I just manage to see > > modprobe using up 80-90% cpu. > > > > The following from kern.log *may* be related: > > A guess: something is scanning /dev for something, I used the Sarge installer so it could be discover. > and modprobe is > "helpfully" trying to load a bunch of kernel modules that might be > related to whatever device node the access attempt is on. > I'm using an Aopen cd burner (52x32x52 with justlink) I'm burning my CD's by referring to dev=/dev/hdc directly in cdrecord (thanks 2.6!) Here is my lsmod: Module Size Used by snd_mixer_oss 16512 0 md5 3968 1 ipv6 221120 8 ds 15108 0 yenta_socket 15488 0 pcmcia_core 63840 2 ds,yenta_socket af_packet 20360 2 snd_cmipci 32180 0 snd_pcm 87972 1 snd_cmipci snd_page_alloc 11652 1 snd_pcm snd_opl3_lib 9984 1 snd_cmipci snd_timer 23300 2 snd_pcm,snd_opl3_lib snd_hwdep 8992 1 snd_opl3_lib gameport 4736 1 snd_cmipci snd_mpu401_uart 7168 1 snd_cmipci snd_rawmidi 22816 1 snd_mpu401_uart snd_seq_device 7816 2 snd_opl3_lib,snd_rawmidi snd 49124 9 snd_mixer_oss,snd_cmipci,snd_pcm,snd_opl3_lib,snd_timer,snd_hwdep,snd_mpu401_uart,snd_rawmidi,snd_seq_device ohci1394 32132 0 ieee1394 73392 1 ohci1394 jedec_probe 12288 0 gen_probe 3712 1 jedec_probe mtdcore 7396 0 chipreg 3588 1 jedec_probe uhci_hcd 29456 0 intel_agp 16540 1 agpgart 29608 1 intel_agp tsdev 7168 0 mousedev 9684 1 psmouse 17160 0 floppy 55124 0 parport_pc 31660 0 parport 39784 1 parport_pc pcspkr 3688 0 evdev 9088 0 ehci_hcd 22532 0 usbcore 94044 4 uhci_hcd,ehci_hcd cmpci 31008 1 soundcore 9696 3 snd,cmpci sata_promise 13444 0 libata 35840 1 sata_promise,[permanent] scsi_mod 109112 1 libata e1000 75012 0 ide_cd 38020 0 cdrom 34720 1 ide_cd rtc 11960 0 ext3 103720 1 jbd 54168 1 ext3 ide_disk 15872 3 ide_generic 1408 0 [permanent] ide_detect 1408 0 piix 11808 1 ide_core 141804 5 ide_cd,ide_disk,ide_generic,ide_detect,piix unix 25520 392 font 8576 0 cfbcopyarea 3968 0 cfbimgblt 3328 0 cfbfillrect 3840 0 > -- > Craig Ringer > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Mon Jul 5 16:49:38 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 16:49:38 +0800 Subject: [plug] MIME Types by file contents In-Reply-To: <200407050157.57463@death.2.spammers> References: <200407011203.33627@death.2.spammers> <1088771445.11818.10.camel@rasputin.localnet> <200407050157.57463@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <200407051649.38443@death.2.spammers> On Monday 05 July 2004 01:57, you wrote: > I've almost finished the Python MIME mailer. > > One problem I encountered was with the known MIME types having > dubious mappings to filename extensions. The code works around that > by using it's own "definitive" map of MIME type to extension. > > The other problem that I've encountered and not yet resolved is with > the Python email module not liking news articles in particular. I've narrowed this down to what could be a bug in the Message module os Python 2.2's email package; either the __str__(), as_string() or set_payload() methods. Inserting a blank line at the start of the problematic files, which are saved Usenet articles, works around the problem. Any suggestions, other than automagically inserting the blank line for text/news type files? -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | Oh what a stumbling track we weave; X against HTML mail | when first we a Python programme do conceive / \ and postings | From T.Phillips at murdoch.edu.au Mon Jul 5 16:54:33 2004 From: T.Phillips at murdoch.edu.au (Trevor Phillips) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 16:54:33 +0800 Subject: [plug] ADSL: Hardware Gateways vs Linux In-Reply-To: <1089007727.16200.17.camel@cbbcbitl303c.murdoch.edu.au> References: <200407051346.58779.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <1089007727.16200.17.camel@cbbcbitl303c.murdoch.edu.au> Message-ID: <200407051654.34039.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> On Monday 05 July 2004 14:08, Bill Kenworthy wrote: > > I would use it again (but not a netcom product), esp. for inexperienced > home users, but I'll stick to my own builds for myself, and I think most > "geek" users would say the same. As a Geek with little free time, though, there's appeal in a little gadget box which does all the cool tech for me. ^_^ On Monday 05 July 2004 14:37, Chris Caston wrote: > > ADSL modems are getting more and more sophisticated with QoS, IP > throttling, VPN client/server, dns-dyns, more advanced firewalls, > virtual servers etc. Which makes shopping for them all the more difficult. ^_^ > Be careful with these. I've been having serious problems with the > wireless component of the Billion 7402w. It may be better to get a > separate access point. When the whole product is the wireless access > point they are going to put more effort into making it good than if the > wireless is just a "feature" of an adsl modem. Any recommendations on an inexpensive stand-alone WAP then? I did consider getting that separately - the main appeal of an all-in-one is cost-savings. > Much less when going through walls. You may need a repeater or even just > run some cable. It's not that hard. In fact it's far easier to install > sockets than it is to crimp cable. Errr, I've well and truly cabled my house. ^_^ Although, given the amount of sockets I've wired & cables I've crimped, I think crimping's a little easier, mainly due to some of the cramped quarters (and heights off the ground) I had to wield that Krone tool in... Ugh... I'd like to try Wireless with my PDA tho - walking around with a PDA with a Cat-5 trailing behind it isn't so portable & convenient. My first idea was to have a separate Wireless WAP, stick it in the family room in a central location - but that would be out in the open, and consume a valuable wall-socket during LAN parties. Wireless hidden in the study would be neater - if the range is there... Of course, if a dedicated WAP has better range, then I *could* stick the WAP in the Study too... An interesting "feature" of the Netcomm which WestNet lists is it has a removable aerial with connector - Implies a cable can be run to put an aerial elsewhere. As a side to Wireless & Walls - the walls are brick, but the roof is Colorbond - would that affect Wireless coverage inside at all? -- . Trevor Phillips - http://jurai.murdoch.edu.au/ . : Web Technical Administrator - T.Phillips at murdoch.edu.au : | IT Services - Murdoch University | >--------------------------------------------------------------------< | On nights such as this, evil deeds are done. And good deeds, of / | course. But mostly evil, on the whole. / \ -- (Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters) / From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Mon Jul 5 17:05:02 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 17:05:02 +0800 Subject: [plug] MIME Types by file contents In-Reply-To: <200407051649.38443@death.2.spammers> References: <200407011203.33627@death.2.spammers> <1088771445.11818.10.camel@rasputin.localnet> <200407050157.57463@death.2.spammers> <200407051649.38443@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <40E919BE.7080902@postnewspapers.com.au> Bernd Felsche wrote: > I've narrowed this down to what could be a bug in the Message module > os Python 2.2's email package; either the __str__(), as_string() or > set_payload() methods. > > Inserting a blank line at the start of the problematic files, which > are saved Usenet articles, works around the problem. Hmm. That should cause the module to read the entire lot as body text, with no headers. That would tend to suggest a bug in the Message class or one of its subclasses to do with parsing text/news headers. Is it definitely made to be able to handle news articles? > Any suggestions, other than automagically inserting the blank line > for text/news type files? No idea, sorry. I haven't worked with text/news at all. -- Rraig Ringer From caston at arach.net.au Mon Jul 5 17:13:17 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 17:13:17 +0800 Subject: [plug] ADSL: Hardware Gateways vs Linux In-Reply-To: <200407051654.34039.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> References: <200407051346.58779.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <1089007727.16200.17.camel@cbbcbitl303c.murdoch.edu.au> <200407051654.34039.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> Message-ID: <1089018797.2015.60.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2004-07-05 at 16:54, Trevor Phillips wrote: > On Monday 05 July 2004 14:08, Bill Kenworthy wrote: > > > > I would use it again (but not a netcom product), esp. for inexperienced > > home users, but I'll stick to my own builds for myself, and I think most > > "geek" users would say the same. > > As a Geek with little free time, though, there's appeal in a little gadget box > which does all the cool tech for me. ^_^ > Don't we all :) > On Monday 05 July 2004 14:37, Chris Caston wrote: > > > > ADSL modems are getting more and more sophisticated with QoS, IP > > throttling, VPN client/server, dns-dyns, more advanced firewalls, > > virtual servers etc. > > Which makes shopping for them all the more difficult. ^_^ > Decide what you want now and anticipate what you will want 1 year from now. If for instance you want to use VOIP go for something with QoS. You can always buy another adsl modem later if you wish. They don't break the bank. I've gone though 3 ADSL modems so far this year. > > Be careful with these. I've been having serious problems with the > > wireless component of the Billion 7402w. It may be better to get a > > separate access point. When the whole product is the wireless access > > point they are going to put more effort into making it good than if the > > wireless is just a "feature" of an adsl modem. > > Any recommendations on an inexpensive stand-alone WAP then? I did consider > getting that separately - the main appeal of an all-in-one is cost-savings. > Same. I'm still trying to work out which is the best to get for a customer of mine on a budget. > > Much less when going through walls. You may need a repeater or even just > > run some cable. It's not that hard. In fact it's far easier to install > > sockets than it is to crimp cable. > > Errr, I've well and truly cabled my house. ^_^ > Although, given the amount of sockets I've wired & cables I've crimped, I > think crimping's a little easier, mainly due to some of the cramped quarters > (and heights off the ground) I had to wield that Krone tool in... Ugh... > OK. I'm skinny as a rake and swear that I could have been a chimney sweeper in a past life, and I have near perfect vision in the dark, so I live running cables. What I mean is using the punch tool to put the wires on the sockets is much easier than crimping. > I'd like to try Wireless with my PDA tho - walking around with a PDA with a > Cat-5 trailing behind it isn't so portable & convenient. > Yeah I hear you. I'd love to sit on the Jetty out the back fishing and surfing the web from an old laptop running an LTSP client. > My first idea was to have a separate Wireless WAP, stick it in the family room > in a central location - but that would be out in the open, and consume a > valuable wall-socket during LAN parties. Wireless hidden in the study would > be neater - if the range is there... Of course, if a dedicated WAP has better > range, then I *could* stick the WAP in the Study too... Perhaps. It also depends a lot about interference in your area such as cordless phones, microwaves, large metal objects. > An interesting "feature" of the Netcomm which WestNet lists is it has a > removable aerial with connector - Implies a cable can be run to put an aerial > elsewhere. > > As a side to Wireless & Walls - the walls are brick, but the roof is Colorbond > - would that affect Wireless coverage inside at all? The strangest thing is I missed a call from someone roday asking me if they could do work experience with me involving "home networking"... it wasn't anyone on this list was it? From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Mon Jul 5 17:09:11 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 17:09:11 +0800 Subject: [plug] MIME Types by file contents In-Reply-To: <40E919BE.7080902@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <200407011203.33627@death.2.spammers> <1088771445.11818.10.camel@rasputin.localnet> <200407050157.57463@death.2.spammers> <200407051649.38443@death.2.spammers> <40E919BE.7080902@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <20040705090911.GA9560@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <40E919BE.7080902 at postnewspapers.com.au> > or one of its subclasses to do with parsing text/news headers. Is it > definitely made to be able to handle news articles? I wonder if it is something to do with the possible similarity between headers of saved news articles and headers of RFC822 e-mail messages? Inserting the blank line would make the headers appear to be in the "body" and therefore no attempt would be made to parse them as headers. (Not sure how that would lead to Bernd's specific error, though.) > Rraig Ringer Something appears to be wrong, and ^L isn't helping ;-) From shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au Mon Jul 5 17:16:46 2004 From: shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au (Shayne O'Neill) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 17:16:46 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] strange modprobe using up cpu? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Your error is different from Chris's > > The important line here is the "file-max limit 4096 reached" > > You need to tweak your /proc/sys/fs/file-max and inode-max values, or > upgrade to a more modern kernel, which you are :) > > You have run out and as a result you are unable to fork any more processes > - so the kernel can't run modprobe, and other processes are unable to fork > ("Unable to load interpreter") Yeah. I noticed that. Interesting the side effect was pretty similar. Still dont know what was going berko and spawning all those processes etc... I've now done the following 2.4.18 kernel... bug disapears ext3 -journal... less frightened of going to melbourne and having a crash back home iptables.... woohoo! firewalled that stupid virus pumping yhaaus machine that was attacking me for weeks. yourguild:~# netstat -t -c Active Internet connections (w/o servers) Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address Foreign Address State tcp 0 0 yourguild.murdoch.e:ssh guild.murdoch.edu:37454 ESTABLISHED tcp 0 0 yourguild.murdoch.e:ssh guild.murdoch.edu:37336 ESTABLISHED The valley is now happy. > > - Matt > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Mon Jul 5 17:46:16 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 17:46:16 +0800 Subject: [plug] MIME Types by file contents In-Reply-To: <20040705090911.GA9560@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <200407011203.33627@death.2.spammers> <40E919BE.7080902@postnewspapers.com.au> <20040705090911.GA9560@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <200407051746.16981@death.2.spammers> On Monday 05 July 2004 17:09, James Devenish wrote: > In message <40E919BE.7080902 at postnewspapers.com.au> > > > or one of its subclasses to do with parsing text/news headers. Is it > > definitely made to be able to handle news articles? > I wonder if it is something to do with the possible similarity between > headers of saved news articles and headers of RFC822 e-mail messages? > Inserting the blank line would make the headers appear to be in the > "body" and therefore no attempt would be made to parse them as headers. > (Not sure how that would lead to Bernd's specific error, though.) The detected document sub-type changes from news to x-news when the blank line is inserted. I've played around a bit with the document sub-type, but with no change in behaviour. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Mon Jul 5 17:47:38 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 17:47:38 +0800 Subject: [plug] MIME Types by file contents In-Reply-To: <40E919BE.7080902@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <200407011203.33627@death.2.spammers> <200407051649.38443@death.2.spammers> <40E919BE.7080902@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <200407051747.38526@death.2.spammers> On Monday 05 July 2004 17:05, Craig Ringer wrote: > Bernd Felsche wrote: > > I've narrowed this down to what could be a bug in the Message module > > os Python 2.2's email package; either the __str__(), as_string() or > > set_payload() methods. > > > > Inserting a blank line at the start of the problematic files, which > > are saved Usenet articles, works around the problem. > Hmm. That should cause the module to read the entire lot as body text, > with no headers. That would tend to suggest a bug in the Message class > or one of its subclasses to do with parsing text/news headers. Is it > definitely made to be able to handle news articles? There's no documented limitation on what set_payload() handles. A subsequent get_payload() produces the correct result, regardless of encoding. That brings as_string() to the top of the list of likely offenders. The trace shows that Generator() is called and various type-specific handlers are called for each part. It's pretty heavy going for me trying to figure out what's supposed to be happening in the Generator.py > > Any suggestions, other than automagically inserting the blank line > > for text/news type files? > No idea, sorry. I haven't worked with text/news at all. It's just plain text. Looks roughly like an email message but has a Path: header and a few other bits. See attached sample. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! -------------- next part -------------- You recently emailed me due to a listing imported from: [ ] http://relays.osirusoft.com (inputs dialups) [ ] http://SPEWS.org (spews) [ ] http://spamsites.org (spamsites) [ ] http://spamhaus.org (spamhaus) [ ] socks at relays.osirusoft.com (socks) You should have: [ ] followed the procedures at the above referenced site. [ ] emailed the proxy handler [ ] Read the faq at http://relays.osirusoft.com/faq.html [ ] just about anything other than bother me. [ ] emailed joejared at relays.osirusoft.com instead of joejared at osirusoft.com [ ] emailed retest at relays.osirusoft.com instead of mailbombing me you [ ] arrogant [ ] twit Your message has been redirected to: [ ] The site(s) that has yours listed [ ] news:news.admin.net-abuse.email [ ] spam-L [ ] another place that has entertainment value [ ] The high priority round filing cabinet [ ] a bottomless pit Further, you indicated that: [ ] a long wooden object has been rectally inserted and that I should [ ] remove it [ ] spin on it [ ] set it on fire and fart You also suggested that [ ] I'm a{n} [insert colorful metaphor] [ ] you are going to sue me if I don't [ ] immediately remove your listing and [ ] no, I didn't visit your website [ ] no, I didn't take reading comprehension 101 [ ] I'm confused [ ] kiss my anal quarters [ ] stop using spews [ ] stop using spamhaus [ ] stop using spamsites [ ] stop being a smartass At which point I respond with: [ ] If you feel froggy, jump [ ] Seeya in court -click- [ ] Google.groups.com seems to think so too. [ ] Thanks. [ ] ouch! Damn cats. From russ at powerstech.com Mon Jul 5 17:59:39 2004 From: russ at powerstech.com (Russ Powers) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 17:59:39 +0800 Subject: [plug] ADSL: Hardware Gateways vs Linux In-Reply-To: <1089009474.2015.41.camel@localhost> References: <200407051346.58779.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <1089009474.2015.41.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <200407051759.39736.russ@powerstech.com> On Mon, 5 Jul 2004 02:37 pm, Chris Caston wrote: > I look forward to the day when someone releases a Linux powered adsl > modem. > Like this? http://www.linksys.com/Products/product.asp?grid=33&scid=35&prid=601 http://www.portless.net/ewrt/ > > I could go with a simple > > ADSL Modem, whack a second net card in the Linux server (current dial-up > > server - really needs some maintenance done on config tho), or I could go > > with one of the ones with 4-port, and demote my Linux server to a > > file/web server. > > You could. > > > The other consideration is whether to take the opportunity to take the > > plunge into Wireless, and get an ADSL Modem which also doubles as a > > Wireless Access Point. > > Be careful with these. I've been having serious problems with the > wireless component of the Billion 7402w. It may be better to get a > separate access point. When the whole product is the wireless access > point they are going to put more effort into making it good than if the > wireless is just a "feature" of an adsl modem. > > > The main concern is if the range will stretch from the study at one > > end of the house, through multiple walls to the other end of the house. > > How's the range on these sort of SOHO products? > > Much less when going through walls. You may need a repeater or even just > run some cable. It's not that hard. In fact it's far easier to install > sockets than it is to crimp cable. > > > Lastly - what are the Netcomm's like which Westnet offer? (See above > > link). The PDF brochures all read rather well, but then, not having > > networking as a specialty field, a lot of the acronyms go over my head. > > ^_^ (Although the spec sheet for the Netcomm 5580W wireless one reads a > > lot like a Linux feature-set. Anyone know if it's really an embedded > > linux device?) > > Not sure about Netcomms but try the LINKSYS WRT54G, 802.11G, 11/54Mbps > Wireless-G Router. It runs Linux and you can use it to run a Linux of > your choice providing it has a small footprint. > > > Any other gotcha's or advice on hardware and configuration? > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -- Regards, Russ From caston at arach.net.au Mon Jul 5 18:22:59 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 18:22:59 +0800 Subject: [plug] ADSL: Hardware Gateways vs Linux In-Reply-To: <200407051759.39736.russ@powerstech.com> References: <200407051346.58779.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <1089009474.2015.41.camel@localhost> <200407051759.39736.russ@powerstech.com> Message-ID: <1089022979.2015.63.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2004-07-05 at 17:59, Russ Powers wrote: > On Mon, 5 Jul 2004 02:37 pm, Chris Caston wrote: > > > I look forward to the day when someone releases a Linux powered adsl > > modem. > > > > Like this? > > http://www.linksys.com/Products/product.asp?grid=33&scid=35&prid=601 > http://www.portless.net/ewrt/ I did mention it. I've never owned one though and I can't just from the website work out if it actually INCLUDES an ADSL modem as part of its function. "Finally, the Router function ties it all together and lets your whole network share a high-speed cable or DSL Internet connection, files, and other resources such as printers and hard disk storage space. " You can setup a normal computer to SHARE an internet connect but I can't see any evidence to suggest the device can also connect to ADSL. If it can please let me know because I will buy one tomorrow! thanks, Chris > > > > I could go with a simple > > > ADSL Modem, whack a second net card in the Linux server (current dial-up > > > server - really needs some maintenance done on config tho), or I could go > > > with one of the ones with 4-port, and demote my Linux server to a > > > file/web server. > > > > You could. > > > > > The other consideration is whether to take the opportunity to take the > > > plunge into Wireless, and get an ADSL Modem which also doubles as a > > > Wireless Access Point. > > > > Be careful with these. I've been having serious problems with the > > wireless component of the Billion 7402w. It may be better to get a > > separate access point. When the whole product is the wireless access > > point they are going to put more effort into making it good than if the > > wireless is just a "feature" of an adsl modem. > > > > > The main concern is if the range will stretch from the study at one > > > end of the house, through multiple walls to the other end of the house. > > > How's the range on these sort of SOHO products? > > > > Much less when going through walls. You may need a repeater or even just > > run some cable. It's not that hard. In fact it's far easier to install > > sockets than it is to crimp cable. > > > > > Lastly - what are the Netcomm's like which Westnet offer? (See above > > > link). The PDF brochures all read rather well, but then, not having > > > networking as a specialty field, a lot of the acronyms go over my head. > > > ^_^ (Although the spec sheet for the Netcomm 5580W wireless one reads a > > > lot like a Linux feature-set. Anyone know if it's really an embedded > > > linux device?) > > > > Not sure about Netcomms but try the LINKSYS WRT54G, 802.11G, 11/54Mbps > > Wireless-G Router. It runs Linux and you can use it to run a Linux of > > your choice providing it has a small footprint. > > > > > Any other gotcha's or advice on hardware and configuration? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Mon Jul 5 18:57:08 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 18:57:08 +0800 Subject: [plug] ADSL: Hardware Gateways vs Linux In-Reply-To: <1089018797.2015.60.camel@localhost> References: <200407051346.58779.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <1089007727.16200.17.camel@cbbcbitl303c.murdoch.edu.au> <200407051654.34039.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <1089018797.2015.60.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20040705105708.GB15186@cp.yi.org> Chris Caston wrote: > > Any recommendations on an inexpensive stand-alone WAP then? I did consider > > getting that separately - the main appeal of an all-in-one is cost-savings. > > > > Same. I'm still trying to work out which is the best to get for a > customer of mine on a budget. I have a Minitar 802.11b access point. Several other PLUGgers have these too -- heck, PLUG owns one itself. At <$100, you'd have a hard time beating the price. (I bought mine from Jamie Moir a.k.a. Techtopia: http://www.techtopia.com.au/.) Cameron. From mungotheb at hotmail.com Mon Jul 5 18:59:30 2004 From: mungotheb at hotmail.com (Mungo TheB) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 10:59:30 +0000 Subject: [plug] ADSL: Hardware Gateways vs Linux Message-ID: using a dlink 504 adsl router work great with linux and xp built in wall works good enough (and can still reinforce seperate machines) only prob is how to monitor each computer centrally. what the hell it works :) MungoTheB _________________________________________________________________ Find love today with ninemsn personals. Click here: http://ninemsn.match.com?referrer=hotmailtagline From gpearson at iinet.net.au Mon Jul 5 19:00:04 2004 From: gpearson at iinet.net.au (Daniel Pearson) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 19:00:04 +0800 Subject: [plug] ADSL: Hardware Gateways vs Linux References: <200407051346.58779.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au><1089007727.16200.17.camel@cbbcbitl303c.murdoch.edu.au><200407051654.34039.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au><1089018797.2015.60.camel@localhost> <20040705105708.GB15186@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <00a201c4627f$39df7150$0401a8c0@flashware> I have a 802.11g Minitar WAP ;) Around $120, iirc from Softline ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Patrick" To: Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [plug] ADSL: Hardware Gateways vs Linux > Chris Caston wrote: > > > > Any recommendations on an inexpensive stand-alone WAP then? I did consider > > > getting that separately - the main appeal of an all-in-one is cost-savings. > > > > > > > Same. I'm still trying to work out which is the best to get for a > > customer of mine on a budget. > > I have a Minitar 802.11b access point. Several other PLUGgers have > these too -- heck, PLUG owns one itself. At <$100, you'd have a hard > time beating the price. (I bought mine from Jamie Moir a.k.a. Techtopia: > http://www.techtopia.com.au/.) > > Cameron. > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From alan.graham at infonetsystems.com.au Mon Jul 5 20:02:42 2004 From: alan.graham at infonetsystems.com.au (Alan Graham) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 20:02:42 +0800 Subject: [plug] Anyone got an 802.11g card working? In-Reply-To: <40E9C2B2.9020001@Diskworld.com.au> References: <1088784604.2925.7.camel@bart.graham.fdns.net> <40E9C2B2.9020001@Diskworld.com.au> Message-ID: <1089028961.3684.3.camel@bart.graham.fdns.net> Thanks for this Adrian, I missed that link when I was searching for info. I'll check it out before deciding which card to take a punt on. I was looking at the Netgear WG511 (cos it's cheap in Harris Technology) but it doesn't tell you on the box which chipset it is. Bummer. And Michael, thanks, I tried both kernels to get my pcmcia ethernet card working, same result (ie, not working). I'm going to log it with Mandrake as a problem... Thanks guys. Alan On Tue, 2004-07-06 at 05:05, Adrian Woodley wrote: > Alan Graham wrote: > > I've installed Mandrake 10 on my laptop and it doesn't recognise my > > ethernet card (works fine under 9.0, 9.1 and 9.2.. but that's a > > different story). I decided to use this as an excuse to install an > > access point, climb up onto the roof with an antenna, join freenet... > > etc. > > > > I've checked the mandrake site for supported hardware, but they don't > > give a lot of details, so I'm after war stories. Anyone got one of > > these beasts working? Was it painful/ > > I have a netcomm NP5430 (http://www.netcomm.com.au/WIRELESS_Adaptor.php) for my laptop. Its pretty well supported under Linux, although I have been having some trouble with it (this is most likely my dodgy laptop/kernel though). The latest 2.6 kernel certainly has support for prism54 cards. Prism54.org has a list of compatible cards:- http://prism54.org/supported_cards.php > > Regards, > Adrian > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -- Alan Graham -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mungotheb at hotmail.com Mon Jul 5 20:42:06 2004 From: mungotheb at hotmail.com (Mungo TheB) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 12:42:06 +0000 Subject: [plug] gentoo gui installers Message-ID: starting to get some ok installers for Gentoo first anacoda-gentoo now vida gentoo http://gentoo.vidalinux.com/?q=node/view/68 plus a couple others people with nforce boards make sure to noapic acpi=off (only hiccup) MungoTheb _________________________________________________________________ Get a Virgin Credit Card and win an adventure: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;8661322;9498324;s?http://www.promo.com.au/virgincreditcard/firstbirthday/track.cfm?source=N92 From nofixed at westnet.com.au Mon Jul 5 21:24:42 2004 From: nofixed at westnet.com.au (Jim Householder) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 21:24:42 +0800 Subject: [plug] MySQL help please Message-ID: <40E9569A.9050106@westnet.com.au> I am trying to install a binary package and am not getting very far. The version is 4.0.18-1.1.100mdk from MDK 10 community. The RPMs appeared to install correctly, other than the usual 'bad signature's. The directory structure used is not the same as that used in the MySQL documentation. The documentation uses / as the top of the tree while what I got uses /usr. When I execute mysqld_safe to initialise things I get: Fatal error: can't open privilege tables: Can't find file: ./mysql/host.frm no matter where I start from. It exists in /var/lib/mysql/mysql. echos in mysqld_safe show it using /var/lib/mysql for the data directory, but / for the base directory. Have I dug my hole too deep and have to start over from scratch??? TIA Jim From caston at arach.net.au Mon Jul 5 21:39:02 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 21:39:02 +0800 Subject: [plug] ADSL: Hardware Gateways vs Linux In-Reply-To: <20040705105708.GB15186@cp.yi.org> References: <200407051346.58779.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <1089007727.16200.17.camel@cbbcbitl303c.murdoch.edu.au> <200407051654.34039.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <1089018797.2015.60.camel@localhost> <20040705105708.GB15186@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <1089034742.2015.78.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2004-07-05 at 18:57, Cameron Patrick wrote: > Chris Caston wrote: > > > > Any recommendations on an inexpensive stand-alone WAP then? I did consider > > > getting that separately - the main appeal of an all-in-one is cost-savings. > > > > > > > Same. I'm still trying to work out which is the best to get for a > > customer of mine on a budget. > > I have a Minitar 802.11b access point. Several other PLUGgers have > these too -- heck, PLUG owns one itself. At <$100, you'd have a hard > time beating the price. (I bought mine from Jamie Moir a.k.a. Techtopia: > http://www.techtopia.com.au/.) > According to the site: $175.00 But they are available at the place Daniel mentioned. > Cameron. > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From senectus at gmail.com Mon Jul 5 22:16:18 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 22:16:18 +0800 Subject: [plug] gentoo gui installers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: They use the same installer, its just that Vida Linux is meant to be a portage based distro on its own. On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 12:42:06 +0000, Mungo TheB wrote: > starting to get some ok installers for Gentoo > > first anacoda-gentoo > now vida gentoo > http://gentoo.vidalinux.com/?q=node/view/68 > plus a couple others > > people with nforce boards make sure to noapic acpi=off (only hiccup) > > MungoTheb > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get a Virgin Credit Card and win an adventure: > http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;8661322;9498324;s?http://www.promo.com.au/virgincreditcard/firstbirthday/track.cfm?source=N92 > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From leon.kyneur at gmail.com Mon Jul 5 22:43:01 2004 From: leon.kyneur at gmail.com (Leon Kyneur) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 00:43:01 +1000 Subject: [plug] MySQL help please In-Reply-To: <40E9569A.9050106@westnet.com.au> References: <40E9569A.9050106@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <48609a890407050743c59c11e@mail.gmail.com> You need to run mysql_install_db as root. The installation sounds normal to me. ...Leon On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 21:24:42 +0800, Jim Householder wrote: > I am trying to install a binary package and am not getting very far. > The version is 4.0.18-1.1.100mdk from MDK 10 community. > The RPMs appeared to install correctly, other than the usual 'bad signature's. > The directory structure used is not the same as that used in the MySQL documentation. > The documentation uses / as the top of the tree while what I got uses /usr. > When I execute mysqld_safe to initialise things I get: > > Fatal error: can't open privilege tables: Can't find file: ./mysql/host.frm > > no matter where I start from. It exists in /var/lib/mysql/mysql. > echos in mysqld_safe show it using /var/lib/mysql for the data directory, but / for the base directory. > Have I dug my hole too deep and have to start over from scratch??? > > TIA > Jim > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From nofixed at westnet.com.au Mon Jul 5 23:31:04 2004 From: nofixed at westnet.com.au (Jim Householder) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 23:31:04 +0800 Subject: [plug] MySQL help please In-Reply-To: <48609a890407050743c59c11e@mail.gmail.com> References: <40E9569A.9050106@westnet.com.au> <48609a890407050743c59c11e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <40E97438.6030200@westnet.com.au> Leon Kyneur wrote: > You need to run mysql_install_db as root. I did. It appeared to run normally. From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Tue Jul 6 00:44:41 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 00:44:41 +0800 Subject: [plug] MIME Types by file contents In-Reply-To: <200407051747.38526@death.2.spammers> References: <200407011203.33627@death.2.spammers> <40E919BE.7080902@postnewspapers.com.au> <200407051747.38526@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <200407060044.41456@death.2.spammers> On Monday 05 July 2004 17:47, you wrote: > There's no documented limitation on what set_payload() handles. > A subsequent get_payload() produces the correct result, regardless > of encoding. That brings as_string() to the top of the list of likely > offenders. The trace shows that Generator() is called and various > type-specific handlers are called for each part. It's pretty heavy > going for me trying to figure out what's supposed to be happening in > the Generator.py Quite a bite of Googling later, it looks like a similar "bug" already reported http://mail.python.org/pipermail/email-sig/2003-October/000020.html The explaination is baffling (to me): It's not a bug. This is caused by the use of the default Generator with a message parsed by the HeaderParser. Generator flattens by looking at the Content-Type headers of the constituent parts. It expects to see a message object model that jives with the Content-Type headers. But your model doesn't because you've got a message/rfc822 content type with a string payload. You should probably use a Generator subclass that overrides _dispatch(). Way out of my depth on this one... I have no control over that. Having tried different encodings, charsets and forcing sub-types; I'm exhausted. I hate hacking a solution like inserting a blank line at the top of text/news! -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Tue Jul 6 01:33:27 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 01:33:27 +0800 Subject: [plug] ADSL: Hardware Gateways vs Linux In-Reply-To: <1089034742.2015.78.camel@localhost> References: <200407051346.58779.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <1089007727.16200.17.camel@cbbcbitl303c.murdoch.edu.au> <200407051654.34039.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <1089018797.2015.60.camel@localhost> <20040705105708.GB15186@cp.yi.org> <1089034742.2015.78.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20040705173327.GD15186@cp.yi.org> Chris Caston wrote: > On Mon, 2004-07-05 at 18:57, Cameron Patrick wrote: > > Chris Caston wrote: > > > > > > Any recommendations on an inexpensive stand-alone WAP then? I did consider > > > > getting that separately - the main appeal of an all-in-one is cost-savings. > > > > > > > > > > Same. I'm still trying to work out which is the best to get for a > > > customer of mine on a budget. > > > > I have a Minitar 802.11b access point. Several other PLUGgers have > > these too -- heck, PLUG owns one itself. At <$100, you'd have a hard > > time beating the price. (I bought mine from Jamie Moir a.k.a. Techtopia: > > http://www.techtopia.com.au/.) > > > > According to the site: $175.00 ? You mean $90 ? http://www.techtopia.com.au/product_info.php/products_id/661 Cameron. From leon at brooks.fdns.net Tue Jul 6 08:36:22 2004 From: leon at brooks.fdns.net (Leon Brooks) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 08:36:22 +0800 Subject: [plug] _This_ is a bit of a jawdropper... Message-ID: <200407060836.22756.leon@brooks.fdns.net> http://slate.msn.com/id/2103152/ Are the Browser Wars Back? How Mozilla's Firefox trumps Internet Explorer. By Paul Boutin Posted Wednesday, June 30, 2004, at 11:03 AM PT I usually don't worry about PC viruses, but last week's Scob attack snapped me awake. The clever multi-stage assault, carried out by alleged Russian spam crime lords, infiltrated corporate Web servers and then used them to infect home computers. The software that Scob (also known as Download.ject) attempted to install on its victims' machines included a keystroke logger. [...] CNET reporter Robert Lemos zeroed in on why the attack was so scary. "This time," he wrote, "the flaws affect every user of Internet Explorer." That's about 95 percent of all Net users. No matter how well they had protected themselves against viruses, spyware, and everything else in the past, they were still vulnerable to yet another flaw in Microsoft's browser. Scob didn't get me, but it was enough to make me ditch Explorer in favor of the much less vulnerable Firefox browser. Firefox is built and distributed free by the Mozilla Organization, a small nonprofit corporation spun off last year from the fast-fading remnants of Netscape, which was absorbed by AOL in 1999. Firefox development and testing are mostly done by about a dozen Mozilla employees, plus a few dozen others at companies like IBM, Sun, and Red Hat. I've been using it for a week now, and I've all but forgotten about Explorer. You've probably been told to dump Internet Explorer for a Mozilla browser before, by the same propeller-head geek who wants you to delete Windows from your hard drive and install Linux. [...] the U.S. Computer Emergency Readiness Team, a partnership between the tech industry and Homeland Security, recently took the unusual step of advising people to consider switching browsers. Whether or not you do, US-CERT advises increasing your Internet Explorer security settings, per Microsoft's instructions. (Alas, the higher setting disables parts of Slate's interface.) Even if you stop using Explorer, other programs on your computer may still automatically launch it to connect to sites. [...] Mozilla also makes a free e-mail program called Thunderbird and a calendar tool called Sunbird, if you want to avoid using Outlook and Outlook Express, two other virus carriers. They're nowhere near as feature-packed as Outlook, but the e-mail client includes a spam filter that works pretty well after you train it on four or five thousand messages?in my case, one week's mail. Slate? My goodness, what's the world coming to when Microsoft's own magazine not only recommends switching away from their products to FOSS alternates, but has done so themselves and describes how satisfied they are with it? Cheers; Leon From bernard at blackham.com.au Tue Jul 6 09:29:43 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 09:29:43 +0800 Subject: [plug] Installfest flyers - Please Distribute! Message-ID: <20040706012943.GL4062@blackham.com.au> http://installfest.plug.org.au/flyers As per subject. There are two options, thanks to Leon and Cameron. It'd be great to get these out to computer stores around Perth. If you do so, firstly check they don't already have them up (from LCA2003 experiences!), and let the list know so that they don't get attacked multiple times. :) If you would love to distribute some, but don't have access to a printer or photocopier to print enough, let me know and we can probably get you a bundle. Cheers, Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From T.Phillips at murdoch.edu.au Tue Jul 6 09:57:57 2004 From: T.Phillips at murdoch.edu.au (Trevor Phillips) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 09:57:57 +0800 Subject: [plug] ADSL: Hardware Gateways vs Linux In-Reply-To: <1089018797.2015.60.camel@localhost> References: <200407051346.58779.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <200407051654.34039.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <1089018797.2015.60.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <200407060957.57500.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> On Monday 05 July 2004 17:13, Chris Caston wrote: > > > Which makes shopping for them all the more difficult. ^_^ > > Decide what you want now and anticipate what you will want 1 year from > now. If for instance you want to use VOIP go for something with QoS. QoS would be nice - and yet there seems to be very few ADSL Modem/Routers which will actually do it. So far, my research has shown up one pretty consistent fact: Billion ADSL Routers are great. I've not seen any bad feedback about them at all, plus the higher-end ones have all the goodies, including QoS, VPN, etc... If I was to go for one with the fruit, then the choice boils down to: Billion BIPAC-7402 - Great feature-full ADSL router, with all the goodies. Billion BIPAC-7402W - As above but with 802.11b wireless Billion BIPAC7500G - Seems to be same features as 7402W, but with 802.11g wireless The prices for these three from PLE (one of their WA suppliers who actually list all three models) are $199, $239 and$339 respectively. Or, looking at it another way: $40 extra for 802.11b, and an extra $100 for 802.11g. Does anyone know any other sources of these gadgets in Perth? (Any better prices? ^_^) Since this is my first foray into Wireless, and my main usage will be for my PDA, I'm really tempted to go with just 802.11b at the moment. I'm still tossing up between going with it integrated into the ADSL Router, or a separate unit tho. $90 for a separate unit is pretty good though - if I can justify an extra $50 for versatility. ^_^ > You can always buy another adsl modem later if you wish. They don't > break the bank. I've gone though 3 ADSL modems so far this year. Eek!! That'd break my bank... -_^ > OK. I'm skinny as a rake and swear that I could have been a chimney > sweeper in a past life, and I have near perfect vision in the dark, so I > live running cables. I'm not exactly skinny (or fat), but I'm not that short. Crawling around in the roof was quite fun, but quite challenging and taxing. I ached for quite a while after. (Colorbond roof, middle of Summer. ^_^) On Monday 05 July 2004 18:57, Cameron Patrick wrote: > I have a Minitar 802.11b access point. Several other PLUGgers have > these too -- heck, PLUG owns one itself. At <$100, you'd have a hard > time beating the price. (I bought mine from Jamie Moir a.k.a. Techtopia: > http://www.techtopia.com.au/.) What's the power/range of them like? While it is possible to stick one in the family room, it'd be neater if it was hidden in the study - or the Linen/Networking closet. ^_^ That Techtopia site is quite scary. Lots of cool gadgets on it. -- . Trevor Phillips - http://jurai.murdoch.edu.au/ . : Web Technical Administrator - T.Phillips at murdoch.edu.au : | IT Services - Murdoch University | >--------------------------------------------------------------------< | On nights such as this, evil deeds are done. And good deeds, of / | course. But mostly evil, on the whole. / \ -- (Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters) / From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Tue Jul 6 10:17:18 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 10:17:18 +0800 Subject: [plug] ADSL: Hardware Gateways vs Linux In-Reply-To: <200407060957.57500.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> References: <200407051346.58779.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <200407051654.34039.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <1089018797.2015.60.camel@localhost> <200407060957.57500.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> Message-ID: <20040706021718.GA27213@cp.yi.org> Trevor Phillips wrote: > Since this is my first foray into Wireless, and my main usage will be for my > PDA, I'm really tempted to go with just 802.11b at the moment. I'm still > tossing up between going with it integrated into the ADSL Router, or a > separate unit tho. $90 for a separate unit is pretty good though - if I can > justify an extra $50 for versatility. ^_^ I'd go for a couple of cheap network cards, a plain ADSL modem (no router) and a separate wireless AP. I found shifting my home gateway from dialup to ADSL very simple -- in my case, the modem took care of PPPoE and all that and handed out an IP address over DHCP, so setting up ADSL was /simpler/ than setting up dialup. > On Monday 05 July 2004 18:57, Cameron Patrick wrote: > > I have a Minitar 802.11b access point. [...] > What's the power/range of them like? While it is possible to stick one in the > family room, it'd be neater if it was hidden in the study - or the > Linen/Networking closet. ^_^ With the stock antenna, tucked away in a corner of the study, it doesn't quite cover all of my house (which is not particularly large). It comes close to it with a good card on the other end, though. It seems to go through a few walls okay. Cameron. From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Tue Jul 6 13:23:40 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 13:23:40 +0800 Subject: [plug] ADSL: Hardware Gateways vs Linux In-Reply-To: <20040706021718.GA27213@cp.yi.org> References: <200407051346.58779.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <200407051654.34039.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <1089018797.2015.60.camel@localhost> <200407060957.57500.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <20040706021718.GA27213@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <40EA375C.6000804@postnewspapers.com.au> Cameron Patrick wrote: > I'd go for a couple of cheap network cards, a plain ADSL modem (no > router) and a separate wireless AP. I'm a big fan of this approach. It gives you flexibility when you upgrade, among other things. You can buy a 802.11reallyfast++++ access point without effectively chucking your DSL modem and vice versa. It's also less problematic if/when a device dies. To top it off, you can get much better security. Quad port ethernet cards are an option if you're building a Mini-ITX firewall, otherwise 3 or 4 basic NICs will do the job nicely. -- Craig Ringer From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Tue Jul 6 13:53:15 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 13:53:15 +0800 Subject: [plug] MIME Types by file contents In-Reply-To: <200407050157.57463@death.2.spammers> References: <200407011203.33627@death.2.spammers> <200407020025.26027@death.2.spammers> <1088771445.11818.10.camel@rasputin.localnet> <200407050157.57463@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <40EA3E4B.4030905@postnewspapers.com.au> Bernd Felsche wrote: > I get a bunch of errors like: > bernie at pinion:~> python bin/maildoc.py bernie < z25 > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "bin/maildoc.py", line 143, in ? > if __name__ == '__main__': main() > File "bin/maildoc.py", line 140, in main > os.popen("/usr/sbin/sendmail -t","w").write(message.as_string()) > File "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/email/Message.py", line 107, in as_string > File "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 100, in flatten > File "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 128, in _write > File "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 154, in _dispatch > File "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 243, in _handle_multipart > File "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 100, in flatten > File "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 128, in _write > File "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 154, in _dispatch > File "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 302, in _handle_message > File "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/email/Message.py", line 179, in get_payload > TypeError: 0 > > whenever I feed it a saved news item. It'll probably hiccup on email as well. > See the attached bugfest for details. A heads-up on said "bugfest" - you've mixed space and tab indenting. This is probably unwise. If you drop this in your .vimrc (if you use vim), it'll display tabs and trailing spaces: set listchars=tab:>-,trail:+ ... really handy for this sort of thing. I'm going to make a guess at what the problem you're having is, based on that info you found and the code in build_message(). I suspect the email package is being confused by the content-type of message/* because it expects a Message object for that content-type. If you look at Generator._dispatch, you'll see: def _dispatch(self, msg): # Get the Content-Type: for the message, then try to dispatch to # self._handle__(). If there's no handler # for the # full MIME type, then dispatch to self._handle_(). # If # that's missing too, then dispatch to self._writeBody(). main = msg.get_content_maintype() sub = msg.get_content_subtype() specific = UNDERSCORE.join((main, sub)).replace('-', '_') meth = getattr(self, '_handle_' + specific, None) if meth is None: generic = main.replace('-', '_') meth = getattr(self, '_handle_' + generic, None) if meth is None: meth = self._writeBody meth(msg) so for most things it'll call Generator._writeBody, but it has a handler for message/* so it'll call Generator._handle_message() . Here's that function: def _handle_message(self, msg): s = StringIO() g = self.clone(s) # The payload of a message/rfc822 part should be a multipart # sequence # of length 1. The zeroth element of the list should be the # Message # object for the subpart. Extract that object, stringify it, # and # write it out. g.flatten(msg.get_payload(0), unixfrom=False) self._fp.write(s.getvalue()) This is unlikely to work with a string object. I may be dead wrong here, as this is only a really cursory reading, but that's my guess. Try something like this in your code (I've left unchanged bits quoted so you can see): # the document part now. doc_type = grokMIMEtype(url) doc_ext = grokMIMEext(doc_type) doc_load = file(url,'r') doc_data = doc_load.read() if doc_type[0] == 'data': doc_part = MIMEBase(doc_type[0],'') doc_part.set_payload(doc_data) elif doc_type[0] == 'message': doc_part = MIMEMessage(doc_data, doc_type[1]) else: doc_part = MIMEBase(doc_type[0],doc_type[1]) doc_part.set_payload(doc_data) doc_part.add_header('Content-Disposition', 'attachment', filename=doc_basename + doc_ext) The above is untested, and written straight into the message. The point is that I suspect you need to generate a MIMEMessage instance for message/* content-types. Hell, it might work. -- Craig Ringer From r.steicke at bom.gov.au Tue Jul 6 14:31:49 2004 From: r.steicke at bom.gov.au (Russell Steicke) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 14:31:49 +0800 Subject: [plug] MIME Types by file contents In-Reply-To: <40EA3E4B.4030905@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <200407011203.33627@death.2.spammers> <200407020025.26027@death.2.spammers> <1088771445.11818.10.camel@rasputin.localnet> <200407050157.57463@death.2.spammers> <40EA3E4B.4030905@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <20040706063149.GN11731@postoffice.wa.bom.gov.au> On Tue, Jul 06, 2004 at 01:53:15PM +0800, Craig Ringer wrote: ... > A heads-up on said "bugfest" - you've mixed space and tab indenting. > This is probably unwise. If you drop this in your .vimrc (if you use > vim), it'll display tabs and trailing spaces: > > set listchars=tab:>-,trail:+ > > ... really handy for this sort of thing. Indeed. One point: you'll need to also do ":set list" for those characters to be displayed like that. -- Russell Steicke -- Fortune says: It is better to have loved and lost than just to have lost. From patrick at tehvand.com Tue Jul 6 14:59:45 2004 From: patrick at tehvand.com (Patrick Tehvand) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 14:59:45 +0800 Subject: [plug] [Fwd: Registrations open for "AUUG'2004 - Who Are You?"] Message-ID: <40EA4DE1.1030801@tehvand.com> Many appologies to those of you who are on both lists. Steve Landers wrote: Patrick, Would you mind redistributing to Plug and SLPWA for me? Steve Landers Begin forwarded message: > From: David Purdue > Date: 6 July 2004 1:58:13 PM > To: auug-announce at auug.org.au > Subject: Registrations open for "AUUG'2004 - Who Are You?" > > Summary: > > o Conference info at: http://www.auug.org.au/events/2004/auug2004/ > o Register now by creating a personalised registration form: > http://www.auug.org.au/events/2004/auug2004/r.html > o Online credit card registration available soon. > > > Continuing the AUUG tradition of quality professional technical > conferences, we are pleased to present: > > AUUG'2004 - Who Are You? > (Identification and Authentication Issues in Computing) > The Duxton Hotel, Flinders St, Melbourne > Tutorials: 29-31 August 2004 > Conference: 1-3 September 2004 > > You are invited to register for the AUUG annual conference - come and > join > us as we rub shoulders with a great mixture of local and international > experts. Learn from them in tutorials and conference presentations, > share > experiences with your fellow travellers in the breaks and BOFs (Birds > Of a > Feather sessions), and relax with everyone at the social events - > including the famous AUUG Conference Dinner. > > As you can imagine, with this conference theme there is an emphasis on > computer security topics. But AUUG is a broad church, and so the > conference features presentations on topics ranging from Linux to Java, > from Open Source Databases to the law regarding SPAM, from Thin > Clients to > Australia's most powerful computer. > > AUUG'2004 also features a packed tutorial programme - the most > extensive > AUUG has presented for a number of years. > > Some of the luminaries you can see at the conference are: > > * Steve Bellovin > > Steve is an AT&T Fellow in the Network Services Research Lab at AT&T > Labs > Research, New Jersey. Steve does research on networks, security and why > the two don't get along. He is the co-author, with Bill Cheswick, of > the > book Firewalls and Internet Security: Repelling the Wily Hacker. > > Steve will present a tutorial on Cryptography, and speak at the > conference > on Privacy, Anonynmity and Security on the Internet. > > > * Theo de Raadt > > Theo de Raadt has been involved with free Unix operating systems since > 1990 (Minix!) and then became one of the founders and prime developers > of > NetBSD. In 1995 Theo created the OpenBSD project, creating a free Unix > that focuses primarily on security technologies. A few years later he > also > started the OpenSSH project (the most deployed Open Source software). > Theo > works full time on advancing OpenBSD, OpenSSH, and any technology which > enhances free Unix security. > > Theo will give a tutorial on Programming Techniques to Stop Privilege > Escalation, and will talk on Exploit Mitigation Techniques. > > > * Bdale Garbee > > Bdale is the Linux CTO for Hewlett Packard. > > > * Tony Judge > > Tony is the Acting General Manager Corporate and Governance for AGIMO > (which was formerly NOIE). He will talk on the Corporate and Governance > perspectice of using OSS in Government. > > > * Michael Paddon > > An AUUG old-timer, and a security expert now working for Qualcomm, > Michael > will give a tutorial on building State-of-the-art Firewalls with > OpenBSD, > as well as giving us a security wake-up call in his Footnote > presentation. > > > So register now by creating your personalised registration form at: > http://www.auug.org.au/events/2004/auug2004/r.html > > Read up on the conference at: > http://www.auug.org.au/events/2004/auug2004/ > > And encourage your colleagues, friends and relations to come > along. Remember, the more who attend, the greater the collected > experience > at the conference, hence the more valuable it is to all who attend! > > Regards, > > David Purdue > President, AUUG Inc. > and Programme Chair, AUUG'2004 > > > > > AUUG'2004 is proudly sponsored by: > > * Computer Associates > * Apple Computer > * HP > * IBM > > We acknowledge the participation of: > > * Silicon Breeze/Linux Jewellery > * AJUG > * ISOC-AU > > Official Media Partners: > > * Computerworld > * Builder*AU > > _______________________________________________ > auug-announce mailing list > auug-announce at auug.org.au > http://www.auug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/auug-announce Patrick Tehvand From onno at itmaze.com.au Tue Jul 6 15:39:44 2004 From: onno at itmaze.com.au (Onno Benschop) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 17:39:44 +1000 Subject: [plug] ADSL: Hardware Gateways vs Linux In-Reply-To: <40EA375C.6000804@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <200407051346.58779.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <200407051654.34039.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <1089018797.2015.60.camel@localhost> <200407060957.57500.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <20040706021718.GA27213@cp.yi.org> <40EA375C.6000804@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <1089099580.5299.2.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> On Tue, 2004-07-06 at 15:23, Craig Ringer wrote: > Cameron Patrick wrote: > > > I'd go for a couple of cheap network cards, a plain ADSL modem (no > > router) and a separate wireless AP. > > I'm a big fan of this approach. It gives you flexibility when you > upgrade, among other things. You can buy a 802.11reallyfast++++ access > point without effectively chucking your DSL modem and vice versa. True > It's also less problematic if/when a device dies. To top it off, you can > get much better security. Quad port ethernet cards are an option if > you're building a Mini-ITX firewall, otherwise 3 or 4 basic NICs will do > the job nicely. While your conclusion is correct, I should point out that the failure rate of the system as a whole is likely higher with more devices, because each can fail on its own and the whole system is borked anyway. So from a reliability perspective this is worse than a single device. Having said that, if this is a home, who cares? Just thought I needed to point this out. Cheers, Onno Benschop Connected via Optus B3 at S27?52'30" - E151?16'25" (Millmerran, QLD) -- ()/)/)() ..ASCII for Onno.. |>>? ..EBCDIC for Onno.. --- -. -. --- ..Morse for Onno.. Proudly supported by Skipper Trucks, Highway1, Concept AV, Sony Central, Dalcon ITmaze - ABN: 56 178 057 063 - ph: 04 1219 8888 - onno at itmaze dot com dot au From patrick at tehvand.com Tue Jul 6 15:51:41 2004 From: patrick at tehvand.com (Patrick Tehvand) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 15:51:41 +0800 Subject: [plug] ADSL: Hardware Gateways vs Linux In-Reply-To: <1089099580.5299.2.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> References: <200407051346.58779.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <200407051654.34039.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <1089018797.2015.60.camel@localhost> <200407060957.57500.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <20040706021718.GA27213@cp.yi.org> <40EA375C.6000804@postnewspapers.com.au> <1089099580.5299.2.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> Message-ID: <40EA5A0D.9080809@tehvand.com> Onno Benschop wrote: > While your conclusion is correct, I should point out that the failure > rate of the system as a whole is likely higher with more devices, > because each can fail on its own and the whole system is borked anyway. > So from a reliability perspective this is worse than a single device. > > Having said that, if this is a home, who cares? Dominant female of the home when she can't access her iChat :-( I think we are the only house with a SLA of five 9s and penalty clauses that mean very cold night's sleep. ;-) Patrick From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Tue Jul 6 16:35:32 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 16:35:32 +0800 Subject: [plug] ADSL: Hardware Gateways vs Linux In-Reply-To: <1089099580.5299.2.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> References: <200407051346.58779.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <200407051654.34039.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <1089018797.2015.60.camel@localhost> <200407060957.57500.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <20040706021718.GA27213@cp.yi.org> <40EA375C.6000804@postnewspapers.com.au> <1089099580.5299.2.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> Message-ID: <40EA6454.3010902@postnewspapers.com.au> Onno Benschop wrote: >>It's also less problematic if/when a device dies. To top it off, you can >>get much better security. Quad port ethernet cards are an option if >>you're building a Mini-ITX firewall, otherwise 3 or 4 basic NICs will do >>the job nicely. > > While your conclusion is correct, I should point out that the failure > rate of the system as a whole is likely higher with more devices, > because each can fail on its own and the whole system is borked anyway. > So from a reliability perspective this is worse than a single device. Good point. > Having said that, if this is a home, who cares? You might be surprised how annoying it is to have the other resident(s) call at inconvenient times asking for remote diagnostics and/or a walkthrough fix. You also may well not be, given your line of work. -- Craig Ringer From caston at arach.net.au Tue Jul 6 17:35:25 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 17:35:25 +0800 Subject: [plug] ADSL: Hardware Gateways vs Linux In-Reply-To: <20040705173327.GD15186@cp.yi.org> References: <200407051346.58779.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <1089007727.16200.17.camel@cbbcbitl303c.murdoch.edu.au> <200407051654.34039.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <1089018797.2015.60.camel@localhost> <20040705105708.GB15186@cp.yi.org> <1089034742.2015.78.camel@localhost> <20040705173327.GD15186@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <1089106524.2250.0.camel@localhost> On Tue, 2004-07-06 at 01:33, Cameron Patrick wrote: > Chris Caston wrote: > > > On Mon, 2004-07-05 at 18:57, Cameron Patrick wrote: > > > Chris Caston wrote: > > > > > > > > Any recommendations on an inexpensive stand-alone WAP then? I did consider > > > > > getting that separately - the main appeal of an all-in-one is cost-savings. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same. I'm still trying to work out which is the best to get for a > > > > customer of mine on a budget. > > > > > > I have a Minitar 802.11b access point. Several other PLUGgers have > > > these too -- heck, PLUG owns one itself. At <$100, you'd have a hard > > > time beating the price. (I bought mine from Jamie Moir a.k.a. Techtopia: > > > http://www.techtopia.com.au/.) > > > > > > > According to the site: $175.00 > > ? You mean $90 ? > > http://www.techtopia.com.au/product_info.php/products_id/661 > Sorry we are talking about different animals. I was looking at the G beast. > Cameron. > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From caston at arach.net.au Tue Jul 6 17:43:13 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 17:43:13 +0800 Subject: [plug] ADSL: Hardware Gateways vs Linux In-Reply-To: <1089106524.2250.0.camel@localhost> References: <200407051346.58779.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <1089007727.16200.17.camel@cbbcbitl303c.murdoch.edu.au> <200407051654.34039.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <1089018797.2015.60.camel@localhost> <20040705105708.GB15186@cp.yi.org> <1089034742.2015.78.camel@localhost> <20040705173327.GD15186@cp.yi.org> <1089106524.2250.0.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1089106993.2250.6.camel@localhost> On Tue, 2004-07-06 at 17:35, Chris Caston wrote: > Sorry we are talking about different animals. I was looking at the G > beast. Replying to my own thread... I did actually buy this thing and it seems to be very particular about when you can connect to it's web interface or not. I have been trying to get back into for about 1 hour and have also reseted it. I've got this huge feeling that wireless is just a complete and total pain in the arse so much so that it totally outweighs any possible conveniences. Give me normal network cables any day. regards, Chros From brad at wasp.net.au Tue Jul 6 17:49:51 2004 From: brad at wasp.net.au (Brad Campbell) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 13:49:51 +0400 Subject: [plug] ADSL: Hardware Gateways vs Linux In-Reply-To: <1089106993.2250.6.camel@localhost> References: <200407051346.58779.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <1089007727.16200.17.camel@cbbcbitl303c.murdoch.edu.au> <200407051654.34039.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <1089018797.2015.60.camel@localhost> <20040705105708.GB15186@cp.yi.org> <1089034742.2015.78.camel@localhost> <20040705173327.GD15186@cp.yi.org> <1089106524.2250.0.camel@localhost> <1089106993.2250.6.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <40EA75BF.9090905@wasp.net.au> Chris Caston wrote: so reseted it. > > I've got this huge feeling that wireless is just a complete and total > pain in the arse so much so that it totally outweighs any possible > conveniences. Give me normal network cables any day. I rely on wireless for my external and internal internet connectivity (Link to the office). I have a wireless bridge to the office backed by a WAP in the ceiling as I can't cable through solid concrete walls. Wireless is a complete godsend. The only problem I get is the A/C unit in the roof sometimes spikes the PSU on the hub I have up there and locks it up. My fault for buying a cheap and nasty hub. When I get a tic I'll put some extra suppression between the PSU and the hub and solve that one. Different strokes I guess. I can't live without mine. Regards, Brad From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Tue Jul 6 17:52:11 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 17:52:11 +0800 Subject: [plug] ADSL: Hardware Gateways vs Linux In-Reply-To: <1089106993.2250.6.camel@localhost> References: <200407051346.58779.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <1089007727.16200.17.camel@cbbcbitl303c.murdoch.edu.au> <200407051654.34039.T.Phillips@murdoch.edu.au> <1089018797.2015.60.camel@localhost> <20040705105708.GB15186@cp.yi.org> <1089034742.2015.78.camel@localhost> <20040705173327.GD15186@cp.yi.org> <1089106524.2250.0.camel@localhost> <1089106993.2250.6.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <40EA764B.60902@postnewspapers.com.au> Chris Caston wrote: > I've got this huge feeling that wireless is just a complete and total > pain in the arse so much so that it totally outweighs any possible > conveniences. Give me normal network cables any day. I'd have to strongly disagree with that. My D-Link 900+ AP works very nicely, and I now find myself pulling out my laptop somewhere, opening it up, and trying to read my email ... only it doesn't work. /then/ I click. I find it extremely convenient and it also saves me having to cable all points I might want to use my laptop from - instead I just provide ports for my desktop and the firewall plus one for my laptop when I need better speed than 802.11b can offer. I do think the security side is a bit painful, but to me it nowhere near counteracts the general advantages of 801.11b. Most services I really need to access securely I was already using SSH tunnels or SSL-enabled protocols for. IPSec is always an option too (though a pretty poor one under Linux right now, it seems). It is possible that if you buy better quality wireless gear you'll find that things are less painful. -- Craig Ringer From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Tue Jul 6 20:07:40 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 20:07:40 +0800 Subject: [plug] MIME Types by file contents In-Reply-To: <40EA3E4B.4030905@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <200407011203.33627@death.2.spammers> <200407050157.57463@death.2.spammers> <40EA3E4B.4030905@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <200407062007.40999@death.2.spammers> On Tuesday 06 July 2004 13:53, Craig Ringer wrote: > Bernd Felsche wrote: > > I get a bunch of errors like: > > bernie at pinion:~> python bin/maildoc.py bernie < z25 > > Traceback (most recent call last): > > File "bin/maildoc.py", line 143, in ? > > if __name__ == '__main__': main() > > File "bin/maildoc.py", line 140, in main > > os.popen("/usr/sbin/sendmail -t","w").write(message.as_string()) > > File > > "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/email/Message.py", line [snip] > > whenever I feed it a saved news item. It'll probably hiccup on email as > > well. > > > > See the attached bugfest for details. > A heads-up on said "bugfest" - you've mixed space and tab indenting. > This is probably unwise. If you drop this in your .vimrc (if you use > vim), it'll display tabs and trailing spaces: > > set listchars=tab:>-,trail:+ Except I don't want it to work that way for everything. :-) I might get smart and load the syntax, etc files for Python. > ... really handy for this sort of thing. Or I could just set vim not to replace spaces with tabes when increasing indent levels. > I'm going to make a guess at what the problem you're having is, based on > that info you found and the code in build_message(). I suspect the email > package is being confused by the content-type of message/* because it Once I hard-coded that maintype as 'text' instead of 'message' doc_part = MIMEBase('text','news') and comment out the other code # if doc_type[0] == 'data': # doc_part = MIMEBase(doc_type[0],'') # else: # doc_part = MIMEBase(doc_type[0],doc_type[1]) it doesn't complain. > expects a Message object for that content-type. If you look at > Generator._dispatch, you'll see: Yes indeed. It does look like that.. but > doc_part = MIMEMessage(doc_data, doc_type[1]) won't work because the stuff isn't really a message. I finally changed the MIMEBase definition to force 'text' instead of 'message' if that is the maintype. if doc_type[0] == 'data': doc_part = MIMEBase(doc_type[0],'') elif doc_type[0] == 'message': doc_part = MIMEBase('text',doc_type[1]) else: doc_part = MIMEBase(doc_type[0],doc_type[1]) Now much happier. And having thrown a collection of various crud at the procedure, it seems to have encoded stuff well. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From lee.jamieson at bigpond.com Wed Jul 7 08:48:17 2004 From: lee.jamieson at bigpond.com (Lee Jamieson) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2004 08:48:17 +0800 Subject: [plug] What have I done wrong? Message-ID: <40EB4851.2070805@bigpond.com> Hiya all, I tried installing the NVIDIA binaries for my video card. KDE 3.2 has some "OpenGL" screen savers that I wanted to try out and before I installed the binaries, did not work. I installed the binaries (Binary??) following the instructions I had printed out from the website, changed the XFree86 config file and did whatever else it said. I then rebooted and tried the OpenGL screensavers, which worked, but the machine hung - quite severely, it took a push of the reset button to get back. I tried this different times, resetting the screensaver back to the one I was using, and going about my business. The machine hung again with no OpenGL applications running. I tried looking in the XFree86 log file to see if there were any errors, but there were no obvious ones. I then tried reinstalling the nvidia binaries again, and followed the instructions again. Now, those "OpenGl" screensavers do not work - it is as if I had gone back before my first attempt at installing. I'm using Mandrake 10 Official, 2.6.6 Any ideas? Lee From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Wed Jul 7 15:25:26 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2004 15:25:26 +0800 Subject: [plug] What have I done wrong? In-Reply-To: <40EB4851.2070805@bigpond.com> References: <40EB4851.2070805@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <40EBA566.4020209@postnewspapers.com.au> Lee Jamieson wrote: > I then rebooted and tried the OpenGL screensavers, which worked, but the > machine hung - quite severely, it took a push of the reset button to get > back. Did it hang immediately or after a little while? Is your video card adequately cooled? (I've seen crash / lockup problems caused by video card overheating, especially with 3D). Was there a kernel panic (flashing keyboard LEDs will indicate this) or did it just lock up? Did/does CTL-ALT-Backspace kill the X server when it's locked up? > Now, those "OpenGl" screensavers do not work - it is as if I had gone > back before my first attempt at installing. That's strange. What is the output of glxinfo | egrep '(direct rendering|vendor)' ? > I'm using Mandrake 10 Official, 2.6.6 I don't know how well the NVidia drivers work with 2.6 kernels yet. They certainly haven't had the same level of testing as with 2.4 kernels. They worked when I tried them out on 2.6.0 even though I had to patch the drivers to get them to build (it was before NVidia came out with 2.6 support), but I wouldn't be too surprised if they hadn't worked all the kinks out yet. Anybody here using them on 2.6? -- Craig Ringer From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Wed Jul 7 15:30:16 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 15:30:16 +0800 Subject: [plug] What have I done wrong? In-Reply-To: <40EBA566.4020209@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <40EB4851.2070805@bigpond.com> <40EBA566.4020209@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <200407071530.16489@death.2.spammers> On Wednesday 07 July 2004 15:25, Craig Ringer wrote: > I don't know how well the NVidia drivers work with 2.6 kernels > yet. They certainly haven't had the same level of testing as with > 2.4 kernels. They worked when I tried them out on 2.6.0 even > though I had to patch the drivers to get them to build (it was > before NVidia came out with 2.6 support), but I wouldn't be too > surprised if they hadn't worked all the kinks out yet. Anybody > here using them on 2.6? I had a go with a 2.6.3 kernel on SuSe 9.1... wasn't happy with 3D support at all. That was a couple of months ago. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From speedster at westnet.com.au Wed Jul 7 15:31:09 2004 From: speedster at westnet.com.au (Dean Holland) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2004 15:31:09 +0800 Subject: [plug] What have I done wrong? In-Reply-To: <40EBA566.4020209@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <40EB4851.2070805@bigpond.com> <40EBA566.4020209@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <40EBA6BD.1050300@westnet.com.au> The latest nVidia drivers (6106) should work properly with 2.6 kernels. I've got them installed on this machine, FC2 with a Fedora 2.6.6 kernel. The previous version (5336) had a problem with the Fedora Core 2 standard kernels due to the use of 4K stack size instead of 8K. I'm not too sure what option Mandrake chose in their kernel but it could be the same thing. Dean Craig Ringer wrote: > Lee Jamieson wrote: > >> I then rebooted and tried the OpenGL screensavers, which worked, but >> the machine hung - quite severely, it took a push of the reset button >> to get back. > > > Did it hang immediately or after a little while? Is your video card > adequately cooled? (I've seen crash / lockup problems caused by video > card overheating, especially with 3D). > > Was there a kernel panic (flashing keyboard LEDs will indicate this) or > did it just lock up? Did/does CTL-ALT-Backspace kill the X server when > it's locked up? > >> Now, those "OpenGl" screensavers do not work - it is as if I had gone >> back before my first attempt at installing. > > > That's strange. What is the output of > glxinfo | egrep '(direct rendering|vendor)' > ? > >> I'm using Mandrake 10 Official, 2.6.6 > > > I don't know how well the NVidia drivers work with 2.6 kernels yet. They > certainly haven't had the same level of testing as with 2.4 kernels. > They worked when I tried them out on 2.6.0 even though I had to patch > the drivers to get them to build (it was before NVidia came out with 2.6 > support), but I wouldn't be too surprised if they hadn't worked all the > kinks out yet. Anybody here using them on 2.6? > > -- > Craig Ringer > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From quadfour at iinet.net.au Wed Jul 7 15:48:55 2004 From: quadfour at iinet.net.au (Michael) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 15:48:55 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] What have I done wrong? In-Reply-To: <40EB4851.2070805@bigpond.com> References: <40EB4851.2070805@bigpond.com> Message-ID: Try adding to following to the 'device' section of ur X config. Option "NvAgp" "1" You can also try a number 2. Regards Michael Collard On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, Lee Jamieson wrote: > > Hiya all, > > I tried installing the NVIDIA binaries for my video card. KDE 3.2 has > some "OpenGL" screen savers that I wanted to try out and before I > installed the binaries, did not work. > > I installed the binaries (Binary??) following the instructions I had > printed out from the website, changed the XFree86 config file and did > whatever else it said. > > I then rebooted and tried the OpenGL screensavers, which worked, but the > machine hung - quite severely, it took a push of the reset button to get > back. I tried this different times, resetting the screensaver back to > the one I was using, and going about my business. The machine hung > again with no OpenGL applications running. > > I tried looking in the XFree86 log file to see if there were any errors, > but there were no obvious ones. > > I then tried reinstalling the nvidia binaries again, and followed the > instructions again. > > Now, those "OpenGl" screensavers do not work - it is as if I had gone > back before my first attempt at installing. > > I'm using Mandrake 10 Official, 2.6.6 > > Any ideas? > > Lee > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > From nofixed at westnet.com.au Thu Jul 8 00:36:40 2004 From: nofixed at westnet.com.au (Jim Householder) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 00:36:40 +0800 Subject: [plug] What have I done wrong? In-Reply-To: <40EBA6BD.1050300@westnet.com.au> References: <40EB4851.2070805@bigpond.com> <40EBA566.4020209@postnewspapers.com.au> <40EBA6BD.1050300@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <40EC2698.6010105@westnet.com.au> Dean Holland wrote: > The latest nVidia drivers (6106) should work properly with 2.6 kernels. > I've got them installed on this machine, FC2 with a Fedora 2.6.6 kernel. > The previous version (5336) had a problem with the Fedora Core 2 > standard kernels due to the use of 4K stack size instead of 8K. I'm not > too sure what option Mandrake chose in their kernel but it could be the > same thing. > My OpenGL screensavers have not been working with MDK 10 community. After the timeout all I get is a black screen. Non-GL modules are ok. I had version 5336, so I upgraded to 6106 by compiling a new driver. Just before compiling, a message was displayed indicating that the kernel (2.6.3) had been built with 'rivafb' as a module, and that it could keep the new driver from working properly. I'm getting the same results with 6106 as with 5336 and think that may be my problem. Can I disable rivafb, or do I have to rebuild the kernel without it? TIA Jim From vk6ksj at westnet.com.au Thu Jul 8 05:36:07 2004 From: vk6ksj at westnet.com.au (Kai) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 05:36:07 +0800 Subject: [plug] MDK 10 on HP NX9010 Message-ID: <40EC6CC7.4070008@westnet.com.au> Hi guys and girls, I bought an HP Compaq NX9010 (http://www.ht.com.au/Scripts/xworks.exe?PART:M1158#Tof) a few weeks ago and I dropped into Linux IT and bought Mdk 10 Official. Tried installing Mdk 10 Official but the installer hangs just after the initialisation screen, I've heard there might be a glitch with the first install CD so I tried CD 2 and after a bit of waiting and some expected noise from CD/DVD I get the message "I can't access a Mandrake Linux Installation Disk in your CDROM Drive (_NEC DVD+RW _ND-5100). Retry ?" I google'd a bit and found a page on someone who tried installing Red Hat 9 and who had problems with it, one of their many suggestions is to use "linux nousb nopcmcia noprobe nofirewire" at the boot:- prompt, but that didn't do any good. If anyone has any suggestions or pages they recommend I read about the problem, please let me know Thanks Kai From tsuki_yomi at zephilia.dyndns.org Thu Jul 8 10:32:18 2004 From: tsuki_yomi at zephilia.dyndns.org (James Budworth) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 10:32:18 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] MDK 10 on HP NX9010 In-Reply-To: <40EC6CC7.4070008@westnet.com.au> References: <40EC6CC7.4070008@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Jul 2004, Kai wrote: > Hi guys and girls, > > I bought an HP Compaq NX9010 > (http://www.ht.com.au/Scripts/xworks.exe?PART:M1158#Tof) a few weeks ago > and I dropped into Linux IT and bought Mdk 10 Official. > > Tried installing Mdk 10 Official but the installer hangs just after the > initialisation screen, I've heard there might be a glitch with the first > install CD so I tried CD 2 and after a bit of waiting and some expected > noise from CD/DVD I get the message "I can't access a Mandrake Linux > Installation Disk in your CDROM Drive (_NEC DVD+RW _ND-5100). Retry ?" > > I google'd a bit and found a page on someone who tried installing Red > Hat 9 and who had problems with it, one of their many suggestions is to > use "linux nousb nopcmcia noprobe nofirewire" at the boot:- prompt, but > that didn't do any good. > > If anyone has any suggestions or pages they recommend I read about the > problem, please let me know > > Thanks > Kai I ran into a similar problem myself, before the GUI installer was loaded. It turns out that there is a problem when you burn the disk, and that one solution I have heard is to burn it at the lowest speed you can. This fixed the problem I had. The problem I had is discussed here. http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=191208 From scott at LinuxIT.com.au Thu Jul 8 11:41:56 2004 From: scott at LinuxIT.com.au (Scott Middleton) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 11:41:56 +0800 Subject: [plug] What have I done wrong? In-Reply-To: <40EB4851.2070805@bigpond.com> References: <40EB4851.2070805@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <1089258116.1863.51.camel@virgo.srgw.linuxit.com.au.201.168.192.in-addr.arpa> On Wed, 2004-07-07 at 08:48, Lee Jamieson wrote: > Hiya all, > > Now, those "OpenGl" screensavers do not work - it is as if I had gone > back before my first attempt at installing. > > I'm using Mandrake 10 Official, 2.6.6 I use the the same. Along with an Nvidia card. This comes up a couple of times a year on this list. My solution is to remove framebugger support from bootup. Edit grub or lilo so that it doesn't use the framebugger and you will find that it is much more stable. Regards -- Scott Middleton From dsbrown at cyllene.uwa.edu.au Thu Jul 8 13:08:32 2004 From: dsbrown at cyllene.uwa.edu.au (Denis Brown) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 13:08:32 +0800 Subject: [plug] slow to mount nfs, Gentoo <- Debian Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040708124206.01e3cc40@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Dear PLUG list members, I'm using nfs to share files on a Debian (predominantly woody) server with a Gentoo-based workstation. In the Debian machine's /etc/exports I have: /shared/directory specific.workstation.dns.name In the Gentoo machine's / directory I have created my mountpoint for the share and as root in a terminal window I do: mount -t nfs server.dns.name:/shared/directory /mountpoint The command (mount) just hangs in the terminal window. ctrl-C's, ctrl-D's etc do not get my command prompt back. For up to five minutes an ls -al /mountpoint (in another terminal window) merely returns the standard . and .. directories. A ps -A reveals that mount is active. A top does not list "mount" in the top-20 resource consumers. The underlying network is 100Mbit, all dns entries are correct although admittedly the DNS machine is on another subnet sep. by links at 10Mbit but I doubt that is the issue here. All ping times are reasonable including to the DNS machine. After about five minutes the mountpoint suddenly has the shared directory visible although by that time I've killed the stuck "mount blah, bah, blah" terminal session. Maybe I should leave it on and see if there are failure messages at conclusion? The Debian (server, "laurel") daemon log shows happiness, for example: Jul 8 11:33:21 laurel mountd[30809]: NFS mount of /data/psychiatry/brain attemp ted from ip.address.of.workstation Jul 8 11:33:21 laurel mountd[30809]: /data/psychiatry/brain has been mounted by ip.address.of.workstation Note that there is zero time difference between the mount request and the mount taking place (both 11:33.21 in this case.) Not yet tried: using IP numbers in lieu of dns names in the exports file and the mount command. adding the mount into /etc/fstab on the Gentoo machine. nfs'ing from another Debian machine, rather than from a Gentoo machine. Any thoughts? According to the NFS HowTo I'm doing everything okay and whenever I've used NFS in the past (Debian-Debian) all has been sweet. Looks like - somehow - the Gentoo machine is not processing the mount request in a timely manner. No other resource-heavy tasks were being run on the Gentoo (workstation) machine at the time. Cheers, Denis From zombie at penguincare.com.au Thu Jul 8 13:15:02 2004 From: zombie at penguincare.com.au (Matt Kemner) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 13:15:02 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] slow to mount nfs, Gentoo <- Debian In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040708124206.01e3cc40@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Jul 2004, quoth Denis Brown: > The command (mount) just hangs in the terminal window. ctrl-C's, ctrl-D's > etc do not get my command prompt back. [...] > After about five minutes the mountpoint suddenly has the shared directory Sounds like you are not running portmap try running /sbin/portmap (or wherever it is) on your Gentoo machine before running the mount command. Install portmap if you haven't got it Regards, - Matt From onno at itmaze.com.au Thu Jul 8 13:30:29 2004 From: onno at itmaze.com.au (Onno Benschop) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 15:30:29 +1000 Subject: [plug] Web Browser Visualisation Message-ID: <1089264628.4297.54.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> Yesterday I saw my home page in IE - version {mumble} for the first time - I've been too busy with other things - and it looked hideous, but it reminded me that I'd started to investigate how I'd best go about visualising sites on different browsers. I was thinking of making 10 different HDD images for VMware, each with a different browser installed, but as I started that process, I started to pull out some hair. There has to be a better way. Any suggestions on how I might go about viewing local pages on a variety of browsers/platforms, using my beloved Debian workstation. Onno Benschop Connected via Optus B3 at S27?52'30" - E151?16'25" (Millmerran, QLD) -- ()/)/)() ..ASCII for Onno.. |>>? ..EBCDIC for Onno.. --- -. -. --- ..Morse for Onno.. Proudly supported by Skipper Trucks, Highway1, Concept AV, Sony Central, Dalcon ITmaze - ABN: 56 178 057 063 - ph: 04 1219 8888 - onno at itmaze dot com dot au From dsbrown at cyllene.uwa.edu.au Thu Jul 8 13:48:34 2004 From: dsbrown at cyllene.uwa.edu.au (Denis Brown) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 13:48:34 +0800 Subject: [plug] slow to mount nfs, Gentoo <- Debian In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040708124206.01e3cc40@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040708134426.02dc8c70@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> At 13:15 8/07/2004 +0800, Matt Kemner wrote: >On Thu, 8 Jul 2004, quoth Denis Brown: > > > The command (mount) just hangs in the terminal window. ctrl-C's, ctrl-D's > > etc do not get my command prompt back. >[...] > > After about five minutes the mountpoint suddenly has the shared directory > >Sounds like you are not running portmap > >try running /sbin/portmap (or wherever it is) on your Gentoo machine >before running the mount command. Install portmap if you haven't got it Sigh! Bingo. Portmap must be installed and run by default in Debian, so I never thought about that in Gentoo-land. Gentoo installs portmap but it is not run by default. Added /etc/hosts.allow (very restrictive) and /etc/hosts.deny files and all is sweet. Thanks, Matt! Denis >Regards, > > - Matt > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au From bret at busby.net Thu Jul 8 14:22:26 2004 From: bret at busby.net (Bret Busby) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 14:22:26 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Web Browser Visualisation In-Reply-To: <1089264628.4297.54.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Jul 2004, Onno Benschop wrote: > > Yesterday I saw my home page in IE - version {mumble} for the first time > - I've been too busy with other things - and it looked hideous, but it > reminded me that I'd started to investigate how I'd best go about > visualising sites on different browsers. > > I was thinking of making 10 different HDD images for VMware, each with a > different browser installed, but as I started that process, I started to > pull out some hair. > > There has to be a better way. > > Any suggestions on how I might go about viewing local pages on a variety > of browsers/platforms, using my beloved Debian workstation. > > > Onno Benschop > > Can't you run IE on top of WINE, on top of Debian? -- Bret Busby Armadale West Australia .............. "So once you do know what the question actually is, you'll know what the answer means." - Deep Thought, Chapter 28 of "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: A Trilogy In Four Parts", written by Douglas Adams, published by Pan Books, 1992 .................................................... From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Thu Jul 8 15:10:44 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 15:10:44 +0800 Subject: [plug] Web Browser Visualisation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40ECF374.3030407@postnewspapers.com.au> Bret Busby wrote: > Can't you run IE on top of WINE, on top of Debian? If you're looking to /reduce/ the hair-pulling-out factor, probably not. There's also no guarantee that MSIE/WINE will render pages the same as MSIE/WinXP or MSIE/Win9x, as WINE provides its own font and graphics services in place of the Windows ones. So it'd only be a solid test of MSIE/WINE ... which is probably not a very big user base :-P -- Craig Ringer From lee.jamieson at bigpond.com Thu Jul 8 17:08:40 2004 From: lee.jamieson at bigpond.com (Lee Jamieson) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 17:08:40 +0800 Subject: [plug] What have I done wrong? In-Reply-To: <40EBA566.4020209@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <40EB4851.2070805@bigpond.com> <40EBA566.4020209@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <40ED0F18.5000003@bigpond.com> Craig Ringer wrote: > Lee Jamieson wrote: > Did it hang immediately or after a little while? It hung about 30 seconds after testing the screensaver. It also hung once while testing the screensaver. > Is your video card > adequately cooled? (I've seen crash / lockup problems caused by video > card overheating, especially with 3D). > Not that I am aware of. I haven't had any problem with it overheating in XP, running Neverwinter Nights. > Was there a kernel panic (flashing keyboard LEDs will indicate this) or > did it just lock up? Not that I noticed. I tried pressing CTRL-ALT-DEL to get out of it - as per windowz.... :) I did not know how to kill the X server. Did/does CTL-ALT-Backspace kill the X server when > it's locked up? See above, but I'll file that little tidbit away for future notice. > That's strange. What is the output of > glxinfo | egrep '(direct rendering|vendor)' > ? direct rendering: Yes server glx vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation client glx vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation OpenGL vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation It seems that that means it's installed and working... > My solution is to remove framebugger support from bootup. Edit grub or > lilo so that it doesn't use the framebugger and you will find that it is > much more stable. I have done this and will see how it goes when I try and update and install the update. Lee From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Thu Jul 8 17:09:33 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 17:09:33 +0800 Subject: [plug] Web Browser Visualisation In-Reply-To: <40ECF374.3030407@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <40ECF374.3030407@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <200407081709.33986@death.2.spammers> On Thursday 08 July 2004 15:10, Craig Ringer wrote: > Bret Busby wrote: > > Can't you run IE on top of WINE, on top of Debian? > > If you're looking to /reduce/ the hair-pulling-out factor, probably not. > There's also no guarantee that MSIE/WINE will render pages the > same as MSIE/WinXP or MSIE/Win9x, as WINE provides its own font > and graphics services in place of the Windows ones. So it'd only > be a solid test of MSIE/WINE ... which is probably not a very big > user base :-P Just about every different Windows installation has a web pages appearing differently, even with the same nominal perversion of web bruiser. HTML is a language of hints. The browser can represent/ignore those hints depending on how it "feels". If you keep to a reasonable, uncluttered layout, then the pages will "look OK" in AnyBrowser. Browser problems such as not actually supporting CSS correctly cannot be solved by introducing bugs into the HTML. Should you want to know how your web pages look on another machine, then it's best that it's not a machine that you've set up anyway. Find several cooperative bod's to review the web pages; and depending on connectivity, they may even let you use VNC to "see what they see". Otherwise you're stuck with screen-shots. Most problems will be evident when you check with all available "browsers" just from Linux; Mozillae, lynx, links, w3m, Konq, Galeon, Opera, Nautilus, Epiphany, Arachne, Amaya, Emacs-w3, HotJava, OpenOffice, ... Try it at different screen resolutions. A not-insignificant number of luser have 640x480 screens on 17" monitors. Yet others have 1600x1200 on 17" monitors. And don't overlook validation. You can ignore some warnings about trivial problems, but no warnings is best of all. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Thu Jul 8 17:22:41 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 17:22:41 +0800 Subject: [plug] Web Browser Visualisation In-Reply-To: <200407081709.33986@death.2.spammers> References: <40ECF374.3030407@postnewspapers.com.au> <200407081709.33986@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <40ED1261.3020505@postnewspapers.com.au> Bernd Felsche wrote: > Try it at different screen resolutions. A not-insignificant number > of luser have 640x480 screens on 17" monitors. Yet others have > 1600x1200 on 17" monitors. I never used to be able to wrap my head around that one. People would always say "but the screen is too small otherwise" (translation: the type is too small with a higher display resolution). Then I tried increasing the type size in Windows and understood ... one reinstall of the user's machine later. When it comes to resolution though, on a NON BROKEN browser and rendering system, resolution should not matter. Points are a physical measure of size, not bound to a particular pixel count. If I could use 1600x1200 on a 14" monitor, I'd have a lovely smooth and actually decent resolution display for once, and could expect to be able to read 9 point type much better than on a 1024x768 17" monitor.It should be the same size, but smoother and more detailed. Of course, I wouldn't have much screen area :-( . I don't know if any platform actually manages that, unfortunately. I know that XFree86+freetype2 tries and succeeds to some extent (under an X/Freetype2 system you can increase your resolution and get smoother fonts at the same size), but it seems far from perfect. Websites specifying font sizes in px (!!) don't help. MacOS X may get some way toward that ideal too. Win9x most definitely doesn't, and I don't know enough about XP - we just got our first XP box here to run Acrobat and PitStop, and I don't really use it. Anyway ... ideally, resolution should only matter the same way it does for a printer - nicer quality, same size. Sadly that doesn't appear to be the case under current OSes. It amazes me that I'm still working on an 84x84dpi display at work and only 110x110dpi at home. Monitor tech moves more slowly, I guess. -- Craig Ringer From kirk.turner at wagoonline.com Thu Jul 8 17:26:40 2004 From: kirk.turner at wagoonline.com (Kirk Turner) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 17:26:40 +0800 Subject: [plug] Web Browser Visualisation In-Reply-To: <200407081709.33986@death.2.spammers> References: <40ECF374.3030407@postnewspapers.com.au> <200407081709.33986@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <20040708092640.GG6050@wagoonline.com> On Thu, Jul 08, 2004 at 05:09:33PM +0800, Bernd Felsche wrote: > Most problems will be evident when you check with all available > "browsers" just from Linux; Mozillae, lynx, links, w3m, Konq, > Galeon, Opera, Nautilus, Epiphany, Arachne, Amaya, Emacs-w3, > HotJava, OpenOffice, ... > > And don't overlook validation. You can ignore some warnings about > trivial problems, but no warnings is best of all. One thing I have found, that is annoying, and indicates that I should probably test it with one of the validators (eg http://validator.w3.org/) is that Mozilla and IE's tag parsers place different precendents. So if I have something like: Hi guys Quick question, hopefully someone can advise me on where to turn.... We're trying to setup a VPN between my house and my mate's house via 2 ADSL links. So far, we've tried IPSEC, which failed since we have a double NAT scenario, and PPTP, which we could probably get working but appears to be better suited to Road Warrior kind of usage. Since we're going from server to server, the client setup is a nightmare without the associated GUI tools. Has anyone got any advice on other tech we can use to get a permanent LAN to LAN via double NAT style of VPN? Any advice appreciated. Simon From brad at wasp.net.au Thu Jul 8 22:32:36 2004 From: brad at wasp.net.au (Brad Campbell) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 18:32:36 +0400 Subject: [plug] VPNs and stuff In-Reply-To: <380-22004748141937799@westnet.com.au> References: <380-22004748141937799@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <40ED5B04.8020408@wasp.net.au> Simon Scott wrote: > Hi guys > > Quick question, hopefully someone can advise me on where to turn.... > > We're trying to setup a VPN between my house and my mate's house via > 2 ADSL links. > > So far, we've tried IPSEC, which failed since we have a double NAT > scenario, and PPTP, which we could probably get working but appears > to be better suited to Road Warrior kind of usage. Since we're going > from server to server, the client setup is a nightmare without the > associated GUI tools. > > Has anyone got any advice on other tech we can use to get a permanent > LAN to LAN via double NAT style of VPN? I use CIPE here over a Nat->static IP link, but I have used it over NAT<->NAT. In either case, you need to open up a static UDP port forward on both ends and you need at least one end to upload it's IP address somewhere that the other end can get at it. When the link goes down, one end must fetch the IP of the other end, modify the /etc/cipe/options file and restart the cipe daemon. It's not really difficult and you can get the interruption in service time quite low if you use some clever polling/scripting. I have even done it with one end E-mailing the other end using an ISP E-mail account. Many and varied ways to skin this particular feline. Regards, Brad From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Thu Jul 8 22:40:35 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 22:40:35 +0800 Subject: [plug] VPNs and stuff In-Reply-To: <380-22004748141937799@westnet.com.au> References: <380-22004748141937799@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <40ED5CE3.5080501@postnewspapers.com.au> Simon Scott wrote: > Has anyone got any advice on other tech we can use to get a permanent > LAN to LAN via double NAT style of VPN? Double NAT, eh? I'd be tempted to use IPv6 6to4 to work around the NAT, and try out IPv6 IPSEC. Of course, that'll probably only work for you if your apps are happy with IPv6. SSH-over-IPv6 is my preferred VPN solution where available. It does make the whole NAT issue neatly just go away, and it's pretty easy to get going. No good for UDP of course, and a bit of a pain if you need more dynamic tunneling, but pretty nice for lots of things. Of course, if you can use SSH-over-IPv6 you could probably use SSH-over-IPv4 with a port forward, so I'm probably not saying anything helpful here. Otherwise, there are less commonplace VPNs like CIPE that might be easier to punch through a port forward. -- Craig Ringer From vk6ksj at westnet.com.au Fri Jul 9 00:33:29 2004 From: vk6ksj at westnet.com.au (Kai) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 00:33:29 +0800 Subject: [plug] MDK 10 on HP NX9010 In-Reply-To: References: <40EC6CC7.4070008@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <40ED7759.8020009@westnet.com.au> James Budworth wrote: > On Thu, 8 Jul 2004, Kai wrote: > >>Hi guys and girls, >> >>I bought an HP Compaq NX9010 >>(http://www.ht.com.au/Scripts/xworks.exe?PART:M1158#Tof) a few weeks ago >>and I dropped into Linux IT and bought Mdk 10 Official. >> >>Tried installing Mdk 10 Official but the installer hangs just after the >>initialisation screen, I've heard there might be a glitch with the first >>install CD so I tried CD 2 and after a bit of waiting and some expected >>noise from CD/DVD I get the message "I can't access a Mandrake Linux >>Installation Disk in your CDROM Drive (_NEC DVD+RW _ND-5100). Retry ?" >> >>I google'd a bit and found a page on someone who tried installing Red >>Hat 9 and who had problems with it, one of their many suggestions is to >>use "linux nousb nopcmcia noprobe nofirewire" at the boot:- prompt, but >>that didn't do any good. >> >>If anyone has any suggestions or pages they recommend I read about the >>problem, please let me know >> >>Thanks >>Kai > > > I ran into a similar problem myself, before the GUI installer was loaded. > > It turns out that there is a problem when you burn the disk, and that one > solution I have heard is to burn it at the lowest speed you can. > > This fixed the problem I had. > > The problem I had is discussed here. > http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=191208 OK, thanks, when I get a hold of a burnable CD I'll burn it at like 4x or something and see if that works. While I'm at it, get this: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/07/07/1089000215444.html "bring computer skills to millions of poorer people" <-- yeah right, no need to bring Windows into the equation, they can already do that with Linux ! From nofixed at westnet.com.au Fri Jul 9 01:07:02 2004 From: nofixed at westnet.com.au (Jim Householder) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 01:07:02 +0800 Subject: [plug] What have I done wrong? In-Reply-To: <1089258116.1863.51.camel@virgo.srgw.linuxit.com.au.201.168.192.in-addr.arpa> References: <40EB4851.2070805@bigpond.com> <1089258116.1863.51.camel@virgo.srgw.linuxit.com.au.201.168.192.in-addr.arpa> Message-ID: <40ED7F36.5080801@westnet.com.au> Scott Middleton wrote: > On Wed, 2004-07-07 at 08:48, Lee Jamieson wrote: > >>Hiya all, > > > >>Now, those "OpenGl" screensavers do not work - it is as if I had gone >>back before my first attempt at installing. >> >>I'm using Mandrake 10 Official, 2.6.6 > > > I use the the same. Along with an Nvidia card. This comes up a couple of > times a year on this list. > > My solution is to remove framebugger support from bootup. Edit grub or > lilo so that it doesn't use the framebugger and you will find that it is > much more stable. > > Regards > > How? I looked in kernel-parameters and fb/, and found ways to select particular hardware, but nothing that would allow me to disable anything. Jim From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Fri Jul 9 05:17:05 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 05:17:05 +0800 Subject: [plug] Web Browser Visualisation In-Reply-To: <40ED1261.3020505@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <40ECF374.3030407@postnewspapers.com.au> <200407081709.33986@death.2.spammers> <40ED1261.3020505@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <20040708211705.GC32582@cp.yi.org> Craig Ringer wrote: > fonts at the same size), but it seems far from perfect. Websites > specifying font sizes in px (!!) don't help. They do that to kludge around different operating systems using different values for the screen DPI (which invariably have little to no correlation with the actual screen DPI) making specifying font sizes in points difficult. [In fact, specifying font sizes in points is bad anyway as it won't respect the browser settings for your default font size (not that IE actually /has/ such a setting). The best way to do it is to give a size relative to the default size; this of course will tickle bugs in IE.] The CSS spec actually recommends scaling px'es relative to a reference pixel of "one pixel on a device with a pixel density of 90dpi and a distance from the reader of an arms length" if your display resolution is unusually high or low. (http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS1#length-units) Cameron. From billk at iinet.net.au Fri Jul 9 05:54:36 2004 From: billk at iinet.net.au (William Kenworthy) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 05:54:36 +0800 Subject: [plug] VPNs and stuff In-Reply-To: <380-22004748141937799@westnet.com.au> References: <380-22004748141937799@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <1089323676.12381.2.camel@rattus.Localdomain> zebedee? I have also used httptunnel to bounce it off of a web cache for really difficult cases. If you are truly desperate there's mailtunnel (not sure if thats the proper name as I last use it some years ago), but as you can imagine, lag is problem! :) BillK On Thu, 2004-07-08 at 22:19, Simon Scott wrote: > Hi guys > > Quick question, hopefully someone can advise me on where to turn.... > > We're trying to setup a VPN between my house and my mate's house via > 2 ADSL links. > > So far, we've tried IPSEC, which failed since we have a double NAT > scenario, and PPTP, which we could probably get working but appears > to be better suited to Road Warrior kind of usage. Since we're going > from server to server, the client setup is a nightmare without the > associated GUI tools. > > Has anyone got any advice on other tech we can use to get a permanent > LAN to LAN via double NAT style of VPN? > > Any advice appreciated. > > Simon > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au Fri Jul 9 08:00:07 2004 From: jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au (Jon Miller) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 08:00:07 +0800 Subject: [plug] help request: installing web server on Debian Message-ID: After installing Apache on a Debian server and trying to access the site I keep getting a HTTP 403 Forbibben, I haven't added anything special in /etc/apache/httpd.conf other than what I want on and not on (signatures = off) The only file in /var/www is the index.html with the following permissions -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4110 Oct 26 2002 index.html output of /var/log/apache/error.log [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] SIGUSR1 received. Doing graceful restart [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [error] (2)No such file or directory: mod_mime_magic: can't read magic file /etc/apache/share/magic [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) Debian GNU/Linux configured -- resuming normal operations [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] suEXEC mechanism enabled (wrapper: /usr/lib/apache/suexec) [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] Accept mutex: sysvsem (Default: sysvsem) Do I need to establish a link to the magic file in /etc? Thanks Jon L. Miller, MCNE, CNS, ASE Director/Sr Systems Consultant MMT Networks Pty Ltd http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: TEXT.htm URL: From jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au Fri Jul 9 08:18:18 2004 From: jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au (Jon Miller) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 08:18:18 +0800 Subject: [plug] VPNs and stuff Message-ID: Hi Simon, We use CIPE to accomplish this as I too have a VPN from my home office to my east perth office both ends have NAT and it works fine. Just make sure you have your option files setup correctly. Jon Jon L. Miller, MCNE, CNS, ASE Director/Sr Systems Consultant MMT Networks Pty Ltd http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby >>> sscott at westnet.com.au 10:19:37 pm 8/07/2004 >>> Hi guys Quick question, hopefully someone can advise me on where to turn.... We're trying to setup a VPN between my house and my mate's house via 2 ADSL links. So far, we've tried IPSEC, which failed since we have a double NAT scenario, and PPTP, which we could probably get working but appears to be better suited to Road Warrior kind of usage. Since we're going from server to server, the client setup is a nightmare without the associated GUI tools. Has anyone got any advice on other tech we can use to get a permanent LAN to LAN via double NAT style of VPN? Any advice appreciated. Simon _______________________________________________ PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Fri Jul 9 07:40:58 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 07:40:58 +0800 Subject: [plug] VPNs and stuff In-Reply-To: <380-22004748141937799@westnet.com.au> References: <380-22004748141937799@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <20040708234058.GD32582@cp.yi.org> Simon Scott wrote: > We're trying to setup a VPN between my house and my mate's house via > 2 ADSL links. A few people here have mentioned CIPE which I've never used but apparently has a number of security flaws: http://www.mit.edu:8008/bloom-picayune/crypto/14238 I'm using Open VPN (http://openvpn.sf.net/) which I found really easy to set up. Debian packages exist, dunno about other distributions. It can cope with NAT and dynamic IPs on both ends so long as one end has a host name that points to it (dyndns-style). Cameron. From garbuck at westnet.com.au Fri Jul 9 08:30:46 2004 From: garbuck at westnet.com.au (Garry) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 08:30:46 +0800 Subject: [plug] help request: installing web server on Debian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40EDE736.50305@westnet.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 It should Just Work. I've seen that 403 error before from a machine where Apache was not yet running. Can't help, sorry. Garry - -- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFA7ec2vdH9DANniC8RAma+AJ9mqQpXjXnnBYgyKKGQQJTbKrEp/gCeNCSc Zf/dENGN1Lkmx3Rs4WJrnVc= =AUTi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jturner at bsis.com.au Fri Jul 9 08:51:47 2004 From: jturner at bsis.com.au (Jay Turner) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 08:51:47 +0800 Subject: [plug] VPNs and stuff In-Reply-To: <20040708234058.GD32582@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: > I'm using Open VPN (http://openvpn.sf.net/) which I found really easy > to set up. Debian packages exist, dunno about other distributions. > It can cope with NAT and dynamic IPs on both ends so long as one end > has a host name that points to it (dyndns-style). > > Cameron. I was also going to suggest Open VPN. I haven't used it myself but some colleagues in the Red Hat space use it and rave about it. They feel it leaves CIPE for dead. From onno at itmaze.com.au Fri Jul 9 09:13:55 2004 From: onno at itmaze.com.au (Onno Benschop) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 11:13:55 +1000 Subject: [plug] help request: installing web server on Debian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1089335635.4297.68.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> First of all: *STOP* sending HTML attachments. On Fri, 2004-07-09 at 10:00, Jon Miller wrote: > After installing Apache on a Debian server and trying to access the > site I keep getting a HTTP 403 Forbibben, I haven't added anything > special in /etc/apache/httpd.conf other than what I want on and not on > (signatures = off) > The only file in /var/www is the index.html with the following > permissions > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4110 Oct 26 2002 index.html Does ps -A show apache running? (It should) The 403 Forbidden message should create an entry in both /var/log/apache/error.log and /var/log/apache/access.log. Your extract does not show this. > output of /var/log/apache/error.log > > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] SIGUSR1 received. Doing graceful restart > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [error] (2)No such file or directory: mod_mime_magic: can't read magic file /etc/apache/share/magic > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) Debian GNU/Linux configured -- resuming normal operations > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] suEXEC mechanism enabled (wrapper: /usr/lib/apache/suexec) > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] Accept mutex: sysvsem (Default: sysvsem) > Do I need to establish a link to the magic file in /etc? No, there is something else broken there, because I don't have that directory either. Onno Benschop Connected via Optus B3 at S27?52'30" - E151?16'25" (Millmerran, QLD) -- ()/)/)() ..ASCII for Onno.. |>>? ..EBCDIC for Onno.. --- -. -. --- ..Morse for Onno.. Proudly supported by Skipper Trucks, Highway1, Concept AV, Sony Central, Dalcon ITmaze - ABN: 56 178 057 063 - ph: 04 1219 8888 - onno at itmaze dot com dot au From scott at linuxit.com.au Fri Jul 9 09:29:53 2004 From: scott at linuxit.com.au (Scott Middleton) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 09:29:53 +0800 Subject: [plug] removing framebuffer support from lilo in Mandrake 10 WAS What have I done wrong? In-Reply-To: <40ED7F36.5080801@westnet.com.au> References: <40EB4851.2070805@bigpond.com> <1089258116.1863.51.camel@virgo.srgw.linuxit.com.au.201.168.192.in-addr.arpa> <40ED7F36.5080801@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <1089336593.3196.12.camel@sarge.int.linuxit.com.au> Sorry for the title but it makes searching easier later. On Fri, 2004-07-09 at 01:07, Jim Householder wrote: > Scott Middleton wrote: > > On Wed, 2004-07-07 at 08:48, Lee Jamieson wrote: > > > >>Hiya all, > > > > > > > >>Now, those "OpenGl" screensavers do not work - it is as if I had gone > >>back before my first attempt at installing. > >> > >>I'm using Mandrake 10 Official, 2.6.6 > > > > > > I use the the same. Along with an Nvidia card. This comes up a couple of > > times a year on this list. > > > > My solution is to remove framebugger support from bootup. Edit grub or > > lilo so that it doesn't use the framebugger and you will find that it is > > much more stable. > > > > Regards > > > > > How? > > I looked in kernel-parameters and fb/, and found ways to select particular hardware, but nothing that would allow me to disable anything. > /etc/lilo.conf ... default="linux-nonfb" ... image=/boot/vmlinuz label="linux-nonfb" root=/dev/hda2 initrd=/boot/initrd.img append="devfs=mount acpi=ht resume=/dev/hda1" read-only The differences are in the append where there is a splash= option and also vga=788. You can also remove those options from the "linux" image. If you use GRUB, sorry, but I am sure it is nearly the same. Regards -- Scott Middleton Linux Information Technology From myk at westnet.com.au Fri Jul 9 11:22:05 2004 From: myk at westnet.com.au (Michael Holland) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 11:22:05 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] hard links in the OS files Message-ID: Is it important to keep the hard links in Linux? I just noticed that when I moved to a new hard disk, i lost them. I did a dump/restore, I think. Should have just "cp -a". Is there any consequence, apart from a little extra disk usage? I see that "rsync -a" doesn't preserve hard links for some reason. Needs -H. Gnu "cp" does do, not that you'd know it from the man page. -- Reading this .sig? So are your customers. From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Fri Jul 9 11:26:10 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 11:26:10 +0800 Subject: [plug] A different Distro Message-ID: <200407091126.10281@death.2.spammers> http://flightlinux.gsfc.nasa.gov/ Who said penguins can't fly? Lots of interesting stuff on that page. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Fri Jul 9 11:35:28 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 11:35:28 +0800 Subject: [plug] VPNs and stuff In-Reply-To: <20040708234058.GD32582@cp.yi.org> References: <380-22004748141937799@westnet.com.au> <20040708234058.GD32582@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <200407091135.28514@death.2.spammers> On Friday 09 July 2004 07:40, Cameron Patrick wrote: > I'm using Open VPN (http://openvpn.sf.net/) which I found really easy > to set up. Debian packages exist, dunno about other distributions. You've just said the magic words "really easy to set up" > It can cope with NAT and dynamic IPs on both ends so long as one end > has a host name that points to it (dyndns-style). -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From caston at arach.net.au Fri Jul 9 12:54:40 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 12:54:40 +0800 Subject: [plug] A different Distro In-Reply-To: <200407091126.10281@death.2.spammers> References: <200407091126.10281@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <1089348880.2011.9.camel@localhost> On Fri, 2004-07-09 at 11:26, Bernd Felsche wrote: > http://flightlinux.gsfc.nasa.gov/ > > Who said penguins can't fly? > > Lots of interesting stuff on that page.\ Well if there is intelligent life in space we should transmit them a copy of the Linux kernel and see if they send patches back. I would fully welcome them to the Linux and OSS community. regards, Chris From senectus at gmail.com Fri Jul 9 13:15:23 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 13:15:23 +0800 Subject: [plug] A different Distro In-Reply-To: <1089348880.2011.9.camel@localhost> References: <200407091126.10281@death.2.spammers> <1089348880.2011.9.camel@localhost> Message-ID: > Well if there is intelligent life in space we should transmit them a > copy of the Linux kernel and see if they send patches back. I would > fully welcome them to the Linux and OSS community. I for one welcome our new kernel compiling overlords.. ;-P Interesting site, I wonder when they would get the chance to test it? I imagine that releases would be even rarer than debian releases.. -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From jfs.world at gmail.com Fri Jul 9 13:57:28 2004 From: jfs.world at gmail.com (Jeffrey Lim) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 13:57:28 +0800 Subject: [plug] A different Distro In-Reply-To: <1089348880.2011.9.camel@localhost> References: <200407091126.10281@death.2.spammers> <1089348880.2011.9.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <4b3125cc04070822577dfa89ef@mail.gmail.com> > On Fri, 2004-07-09 at 11:26, Bernd Felsche wrote: > > Well if there is intelligent life in space we should transmit them a > copy of the Linux kernel and see if they send patches back. I would > fully welcome them to the Linux and OSS community. > perhaps we should then start up our own 'SETK' (or 'SETKP' - or whatever) project then ;) - "Search for Extra-Terrestrial Kernel patches"... -jf -- http://www.bigo.com.sg/fooled/fooled.html From speedster at westnet.com.au Fri Jul 9 14:05:15 2004 From: speedster at westnet.com.au (Dean Holland) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 14:05:15 +0800 Subject: [plug] LVM on RAID5? Message-ID: <40EE359B.4070009@westnet.com.au> Howdy PLUGgers I'm going to be setting up a machine which will have high usage on it's /var/spool partition. What I'm after is the ability to add another disk and expand the partition to create more space when needed. The box has a hardware RAID controller so I want to use RAID5 for reliability. Linux sees the array as one device (/dev/rd/c0d0). I've had a look through the LVM-HOWTO but it doesn't quite answer my questions specifically :) My questions: Will LVM work correctly on RAID5, eg. it's not going to throw a fit when I add another disk and expand the RAID5 array. Would it be easier to just use normal partitioning on the RAID5 device with /var/spool as the last partition, then when expanding the array use parted to expand /var/spool into the newly added free space. Thanks! Dean From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Fri Jul 9 14:09:23 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 14:09:23 +0800 Subject: [plug] VPNs and stuff In-Reply-To: <200407091135.28514@death.2.spammers> References: <380-22004748141937799@westnet.com.au> <20040708234058.GD32582@cp.yi.org> <200407091135.28514@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <20040709060923.GB32430@cp.yi.org> Bernd Felsche wrote: > > I'm using Open VPN (http://openvpn.sf.net/) which I found really easy > > to set up. Debian packages exist, dunno about other distributions. > > You've just said the magic words "really easy to set up" If only the openvpn developers were paying me for plugging their programme on this list... :-) Cameron. From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Fri Jul 9 14:32:32 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 14:32:32 +0800 Subject: [plug] Web Browser Visualisation In-Reply-To: <20040708211705.GC32582@cp.yi.org> References: <40ECF374.3030407@postnewspapers.com.au> <200407081709.33986@death.2.spammers> <40ED1261.3020505@postnewspapers.com.au> <20040708211705.GC32582@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <40EE3C00.7070201@postnewspapers.com.au> Cameron Patrick wrote: > They do that to kludge around different operating systems using > different values for the screen DPI (which invariably have little to > no correlation with the actual screen DPI) making specifying font sizes > in points difficult. Using px doesn't really help any more than pt on a broken system though. All it ensures is that it looks right on your screen and not on anybody else's. > [In fact, specifying font sizes in points is bad > anyway as it won't respect the browser settings for your default font > size (not that IE actually /has/ such a setting). Indeed. The use of 'pt' also really irritates me, but (a) it's better than px, and (b) 'larger' etc or percentages seem to work really poorly across different browsers. My favourite, without any doubt at all, is sites that set a relative font size like "70%" (it's not like the user would set the browser's default font to the one they want to READ or anything...) and then set a leading in pixels. *arrggh*. You go to incrase the font size, and the page explodes into a mess of overlapping lines. Why anybody insists on using an explicit leading on a web page is beyond me. I suspect it's often print designers who are thrown at DreamWeaver and told "go". > The CSS spec actually recommends scaling px'es relative to a reference > pixel of "one pixel on a device with a pixel density of 90dpi and a > distance from the reader of an arms length" if your display resolution > is unusually high or low. (http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS1#length-units) What a horrifying kludge. -- Craig Ringer From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Fri Jul 9 14:36:56 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 14:36:56 +0800 Subject: [plug] hard links in the OS files In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40EE3D08.5050105@postnewspapers.com.au> Michael Holland wrote: > Is it important to keep the hard links in Linux? > I just noticed that when I moved to a new hard disk, i lost them. > I did a dump/restore, I think. Should have just "cp -a". > Is there any consequence, apart from a little extra disk usage? Not normally, no. There are occasional specialised applications that rely on hard links, but I've never run into one in practise. -- Craig Ringer From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Fri Jul 9 14:44:29 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 14:44:29 +0800 Subject: [plug] LVM on RAID5? In-Reply-To: <40EE359B.4070009@westnet.com.au> References: <40EE359B.4070009@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <40EE3ECD.3040402@postnewspapers.com.au> Dean Holland wrote: > Will LVM work correctly on RAID5 Yes. > eg. it's not going to throw a fit when > I add another disk and expand the RAID5 array. LVM has support for resizing PVs, so it should be fine. I haven't done this myself, though. My RAID 5 can't be resized live :-( alas. Do make sure it works in a test environment first, though. Create a PV that takes up less than the entire disk, then expand it. Also be aware of this issue if you're thinking about Linux 2.6 and LVM2: [root at bucket root]# pvresize Command not implemented yet. > Would it be easier to just use normal partitioning on the RAID5 device > with /var/spool as the last partition, then when expanding the array use > parted to expand /var/spool into the newly added free space. Perhaps, but you'll hate yourself the first time you have to run a backup and can't say: lvcreate -s -n var_spool_snap -L 1G var_spool mount /dev/RAID5/var_spool_snap /mnt/backup/var_spool (back up from snapshot) umount /mnt/backup/var_spool lvremove -f /dev/RAID5/var_spool_snap LVM Snapshots make backups and system recovery snapshots so much easier, nicer, and safer that it's just crazy. LVM2 now has snapshot support too, so that'll work fine on 2.6. If you do need to go for LVM2 and 2.6, you could always partition the RAID 5 and add new PVs to the VG as you expand the array rather than resizing the existing one. -- Craig Ringer From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Fri Jul 9 14:44:37 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 14:44:37 +0800 Subject: [plug] Web Browser Visualisation In-Reply-To: <40EE3C00.7070201@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <40ECF374.3030407@postnewspapers.com.au> <200407081709.33986@death.2.spammers> <40ED1261.3020505@postnewspapers.com.au> <20040708211705.GC32582@cp.yi.org> <40EE3C00.7070201@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <20040709064437.GC32430@cp.yi.org> Craig Ringer wrote: > My favourite, without any doubt at all, is sites that set a relative > font size like "70%" (it's not like the user would set the browser's > default font to the one they want to READ or anything...) and then set a > leading in pixels. *arrggh*. Heh. The Microsoft web site did this at one point. Made reading "knowledge base" articles... interesting. One of my own pet hates in this area is pages which specify a page width in pixels. You either get a skinny little column because your screen is much wider than anticipated (possibly with line breaks in ugly places because your preferred font size is larger than the designer's) or pages that require horizontal scrolling because your browser window isn't full-screen, or has a few pixels more window border on the side than IE. Giving column widths in ems can help with the first problem but doesn't cope with browser windows /narrower/ than expected. Worse, often a full-screen browser window will give ridiculously wide lines, so making the text width a percentage of the browser window is also sucky. If there's a good solution to all this, I don't know what it is. (Hmm, use Javascript to dynamically resize columns with various heuristics depending on the window size? A disturbing idea but might be fun to try...) > >The CSS spec actually recommends scaling px'es relative to a reference > >pixel of "one pixel on a device with a pixel density of 90dpi and a > >distance from the reader of an arms length" if your display resolution > >is unusually high or low. (http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS1#length-units) > > What a horrifying kludge. :-) It's really the only sane solution if you want pages to look okay on a 600dpi+ print-out though. Cameron. From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Fri Jul 9 14:50:53 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 14:50:53 +0800 Subject: [plug] Web Browser Visualisation In-Reply-To: <20040709064437.GC32430@cp.yi.org> References: <40ECF374.3030407@postnewspapers.com.au> <200407081709.33986@death.2.spammers> <40ED1261.3020505@postnewspapers.com.au> <20040708211705.GC32582@cp.yi.org> <40EE3C00.7070201@postnewspapers.com.au> <20040709064437.GC32430@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <40EE404D.80101@postnewspapers.com.au> Cameron Patrick wrote: > Worse, often a full-screen browser window will give > ridiculously wide lines, so making the text width a percentage of the > browser window is also sucky. If there's a good solution to all this, > I don't know what it is. Got to the W3C and beat people until someone provides a way of defining auto-flowing columns or elements with shared reflowing content in CSS in a USEFUL WAY?!? -- Craig Ringer From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Fri Jul 9 14:52:13 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 14:52:13 +0800 Subject: [plug] Web Browser Visualisation In-Reply-To: <40EE404D.80101@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <40ECF374.3030407@postnewspapers.com.au> <200407081709.33986@death.2.spammers> <40ED1261.3020505@postnewspapers.com.au> <20040708211705.GC32582@cp.yi.org> <40EE3C00.7070201@postnewspapers.com.au> <20040709064437.GC32430@cp.yi.org> <40EE404D.80101@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <20040709065213.GE32430@cp.yi.org> Craig Ringer wrote: > >browser window is also sucky. If there's a good solution to all this, > >I don't know what it is. > > Got to the W3C and beat people until someone provides a way of defining > auto-flowing columns or elements with shared reflowing content in CSS in > a USEFUL WAY?!? And then convince web developers to ACTUALLY USE IT!?!?! (See, I can do capital letters and interesting punctuation too :-P) Cameron. From speedster at westnet.com.au Fri Jul 9 14:53:35 2004 From: speedster at westnet.com.au (Dean Holland) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 14:53:35 +0800 Subject: [plug] LVM on RAID5? In-Reply-To: <40EE3ECD.3040402@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <40EE359B.4070009@westnet.com.au> <40EE3ECD.3040402@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <40EE40EF.2020505@westnet.com.au> Craig Ringer wrote: > If you do need to go for LVM2 and 2.6, you could always partition the > RAID 5 and add new PVs to the VG as you expand the array rather > than resizing the existing one. That looks like the way to go (I'll be using 2.6). Thanks for the input! :) Dean From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Fri Jul 9 15:01:15 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 15:01:15 +0800 Subject: [plug] LVM on RAID5? In-Reply-To: <40EE40EF.2020505@westnet.com.au> References: <40EE359B.4070009@westnet.com.au> <40EE3ECD.3040402@postnewspapers.com.au> <40EE40EF.2020505@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <40EE42BB.1030507@postnewspapers.com.au> Dean Holland wrote: > That looks like the way to go (I'll be using 2.6). You'll want 2.6.8 for sure, as the device-mapper snapshot target support went in, as well as a number of other things. Snapshots in LVM2 were really nastily broken before 2.6.8 . Of course, 2.6.8 isn't quite out yet... -- Craig Ringer From ranz at himladeon.com Thu Jul 8 08:39:10 2004 From: ranz at himladeon.com (Randal S. Adamson) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 08:39:10 +0800 Subject: [plug] help request: installing web server on Debian[Scanned] Message-ID: <5FDDAC9D8C7AF14091FA6093345F1A236B4B@bladesinger.dev.local> Hi Jon, > After installing Apache on a Debian server and trying to access the site I > keep getting a HTTP 403 Forbibben, I haven't added anything special in > /etc/apache/httpd.conf other than what I want on and not on (signatures = > off) > The only file in /var/www is the index.html with the following permissions > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4110 Oct 26 2002 index.html > > > output of /var/log/apache/error.log > > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] SIGUSR1 received. Doing graceful > restart > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [error] (2)No such file or directory: > mod_mime_magic: can't read magic file /etc/apache/share/magic > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) Debian GNU/Linux > configured -- resuming normal operations > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] suEXEC mechanism enabled (wrapper: > /usr/lib/apache/suexec) > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] Accept mutex: sysvsem (Default: > sysvsem) These error messages are quite normal for Apache and I wouldn't think they have any bearing on why you get your 403 message. May I suggest you take a look at your "Order allow,deny" part and put in your httpd.conf file and allow from your lan: ie.: Allow from 192.168.0.0/255.255.255.0 As an example > Do I need to establish a link to the magic file in /etc? you could -> but it would have to be __REAL MAGIC___ :) Regards, Randal Adamson From garbuck at westnet.com.au Fri Jul 9 17:44:17 2004 From: garbuck at westnet.com.au (Garry) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 17:44:17 +0800 Subject: [plug] VPNs and stuff In-Reply-To: <20040709060923.GB32430@cp.yi.org> References: <380-22004748141937799@westnet.com.au> <20040708234058.GD32582@cp.yi.org> <200407091135.28514@death.2.spammers> <20040709060923.GB32430@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <40EE68F1.6010809@westnet.com.au> > If only the openvpn developers were paying me for plugging their > programme on this list... :-) If only the openvpn developers were being paid, they might have a plugging budget... 8^)== Garry From nofixed at westnet.com.au Fri Jul 9 21:13:04 2004 From: nofixed at westnet.com.au (Jim Householder) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 21:13:04 +0800 Subject: [plug] removing framebuffer support from lilo in Mandrake 10 In-Reply-To: <1089336593.3196.12.camel@sarge.int.linuxit.com.au> References: <40EB4851.2070805@bigpond.com> <1089258116.1863.51.camel@virgo.srgw.linuxit.com.au.201.168.192.in-addr.arpa> <40ED7F36.5080801@westnet.com.au> <1089336593.3196.12.camel@sarge.int.linuxit.com.au> Message-ID: <40EE99E0.2030403@westnet.com.au> Scott Middleton wrote: >>>My solution is to remove framebugger support from bootup. Edit grub or >>>lilo so that it doesn't use the framebugger and you will find that it is >>>much more stable. >>> >> >>How? >> >>I looked in kernel-parameters and fb/, and found ways to select particular hardware, but nothing that would allow me to disable anything. >> > > > /etc/lilo.conf > ... > default="linux-nonfb" > ... > image=/boot/vmlinuz > label="linux-nonfb" > root=/dev/hda2 > initrd=/boot/initrd.img > append="devfs=mount acpi=ht resume=/dev/hda1" > read-only > > > The differences are in the append where there is a splash= option and > also vga=788. You can also remove those options from the "linux" image. > > If you use GRUB, sorry, but I am sure it is nearly the same. > > Regards > Thanks. I had removed the splash= to see what it did but did not think to try the screensaver again. I use vga=0x30c for 132x60 text which does not affect the screensaver. Jim From jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au Sat Jul 10 00:29:03 2004 From: jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au (Jon Miller) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 00:29:03 +0800 Subject: [plug] help request: installing web server on Debian[Scanned] Message-ID: Can access the web server from internal LAN, cannot access it from a external location. Jon Jon L. Miller, MCNE, CNS, ASE Director/Sr Systems Consultant MMT Networks Pty Ltd http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby >>> ranz at himladeon.com 8:39:10 am 8/07/2004 >>> Hi Jon, > After installing Apache on a Debian server and trying to access the site I > keep getting a HTTP 403 Forbibben, I haven't added anything special in > /etc/apache/httpd.conf other than what I want on and not on (signatures = > off) > The only file in /var/www is the index.html with the following permissions > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4110 Oct 26 2002 index.html > > > output of /var/log/apache/error.log > > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] SIGUSR1 received. Doing graceful > restart > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [error] (2)No such file or directory: > mod_mime_magic: can't read magic file /etc/apache/share/magic > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) Debian GNU/Linux > configured -- resuming normal operations > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] suEXEC mechanism enabled (wrapper: > /usr/lib/apache/suexec) > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] Accept mutex: sysvsem (Default: > sysvsem) These error messages are quite normal for Apache and I wouldn't think they have any bearing on why you get your 403 message. May I suggest you take a look at your "Order allow,deny" part and put in your httpd.conf file and allow from your lan: ie.: Allow from 192.168.0.0/255.255.255.0 As an example > Do I need to establish a link to the magic file in /etc? you could -> but it would have to be __REAL MAGIC___ :) Regards, Randal Adamson _______________________________________________ PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garbuck at westnet.com.au Sat Jul 10 00:22:11 2004 From: garbuck at westnet.com.au (Garry) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 00:22:11 +0800 Subject: [plug] help request: installing web server on Debian[Scanned] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40EEC633.5060500@westnet.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Jon Miller wrote: | Can access the web server from internal LAN, cannot access it from a external location. | ============ In /etc/apache/http.conf, have a look for this section. It looks like it _may_ be something.. # # Controls who can get stuff from this server. # ~ Order allow,deny ~ Allow from all HTH Garry | Jon | | Jon L. Miller, MCNE, CNS, ASE | Director/Sr Systems Consultant | MMT Networks Pty Ltd | http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au | | "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure | is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby | | | | |>>>ranz at himladeon.com 8:39:10 am 8/07/2004 >>> | | | Hi Jon, | | |>After installing Apache on a Debian server and trying to access the | | site I | |>keep getting a HTTP 403 Forbibben, I haven't added anything special in |>/etc/apache/httpd.conf other than what I want on and not on | | (signatures = | |>off) |>The only file in /var/www is the index.html with the following | | permissions | |>-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4110 Oct 26 2002 index.html |> |> |>output of /var/log/apache/error.log |> |>[Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] SIGUSR1 received. Doing graceful |>restart |>[Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [error] (2)No such file or directory: |>mod_mime_magic: can't read magic file /etc/apache/share/magic |>[Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) Debian | | GNU/Linux | |>configured -- resuming normal operations |>[Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] suEXEC mechanism enabled (wrapper: |>/usr/lib/apache/suexec) |>[Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] Accept mutex: sysvsem (Default: |>sysvsem) | | | These error messages are quite normal for Apache and I wouldn't think | they have any bearing on why you get your 403 message. | | May I suggest you take a look at your "Order allow,deny" part and put in | your httpd.conf file and allow from your lan: ie.: | | Allow from 192.168.0.0/255.255.255.0 | | As an example | | |>Do I need to establish a link to the magic file in /etc? | | | you could -> but it would have to be __REAL MAGIC___ :) | | Regards, | | Randal Adamson | _______________________________________________ | PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au | http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug | Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au | | | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | | Can access the web server from internal LAN, cannot access it from a | external location. | | Jon | | Jon L. Miller, MCNE, CNS, ASE | Director/Sr Systems Consultant | MMT Networks Pty Ltd | http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au | | "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure | is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby | | | | >>> ranz at himladeon.com 8:39:10 am 8/07/2004 >>> | | Hi Jon, | | > After installing Apache on a Debian server and trying to access the | site I | > keep getting a HTTP 403 Forbibben, I haven't added anything special in | > /etc/apache/httpd.conf other than what I want on and not on | (signatures = | > off) | > The only file in /var/www is the index.html with the following | permissions | > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4110 Oct 26 2002 index.html | > | > | > output of /var/log/apache/error.log | > | > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] SIGUSR1 received. Doing graceful | > restart | > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [error] (2)No such file or directory: | > mod_mime_magic: can't read magic file /etc/apache/share/magic | > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) Debian | GNU/Linux | > configured -- resuming normal operations | > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] suEXEC mechanism enabled (wrapper: | > /usr/lib/apache/suexec) | > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] Accept mutex: sysvsem (Default: | > sysvsem) | | These error messages are quite normal for Apache and I wouldn't think | they have any bearing on why you get your 403 message. | | May I suggest you take a look at your "Order allow,deny" part and put in | your httpd.conf file and allow from your lan: ie.: | | Allow from 192.168.0.0/255.255.255.0 | | As an example | | > Do I need to establish a link to the magic file in /etc? | | you could -> but it would have to be __REAL MAGIC___ :) | | Regards, | | Randal Adamson | _______________________________________________ | PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au | http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug | Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au | | | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | | _______________________________________________ | PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au | http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug | Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au - -- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFA7sYzvdH9DANniC8RAk7pAKCLzXRNNWPw5R9uGpdGrHGVz18cGwCeLVpq 07VaJkikKUD1AeCiF63r6IQ= =XG43 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From darts at dialix.com.au Sat Jul 10 12:44:27 2004 From: darts at dialix.com.au (Dave Dartnall) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 12:44:27 +0800 Subject: [plug] mysql installation Message-ID: <200407101244.28269.darts@dialix.com.au> I note a recent request for assistance from Jim Householder re a mysql installation in Mandrake 10. I'm having exactly the same problems... The mysql installation went well, mysql_install_db was run as root (as suggested by Leon Kyneur), I can 'USE test' and create tables in this database, populate and retrieve data from them etc but... mysql> SHOW DATABASES; returns 'test' only, no reference to mysql or tmp. mysql> CREATE DATABASE records; returns: ERROR 1044: Access denied for user : '@localhost' to database 'records $ mysqladmin -u root password 'rootpassword' returns mysqladmin: connect to server at 'localhost' failed Error: access denied for user 'root at localhost' (Using Password: NO) (this also was run as root with similar results) Reference is made in the documentation of 'syntax.txt' which I don't have. I just can't see how to get administrator privileges at server level... As a matter of interest, I had to create a file /var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock (touch /var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock) and I was surprised that the system accepted this without further linkage. How does this work? In addition, reference to the gnome system monitor while running the client process 'mysql' and referencing the trial table set under the 'test' database which is the only thing I can do - (can't create a new database) I notice that while "mysql' is shown to be running the server 'mysqld' is not shown as a process which is running or sleeping.I was assuming that it would not be possible to work with the 'test' db without the server running. Am I wrong? mysql> \s seems to indicate that the server is in fact running! Did you have any success Jim, and if so could you or any other Plugger give me a lead on where to go from here please. regards Dave Dartnall From nofixed at westnet.com.au Sat Jul 10 13:31:24 2004 From: nofixed at westnet.com.au (Jim Householder) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 13:31:24 +0800 Subject: [plug] mysql installation In-Reply-To: <200407101244.28269.darts@dialix.com.au> References: <200407101244.28269.darts@dialix.com.au> Message-ID: <40EF7F2C.8020009@westnet.com.au> Dave Dartnall wrote: > I note a recent request for assistance from Jim Householder re a mysql > installation in Mandrake 10. I'm having exactly the same problems... > > The mysql installation went well, mysql_install_db was run as root (as > suggested by Leon Kyneur), I can 'USE test' and create tables in this > database, populate and retrieve data from them etc but... > mysql> SHOW DATABASES; returns 'test' only, no reference to mysql or tmp. > mysql> CREATE DATABASE records; returns: > ERROR 1044: Access denied for user : '@localhost' to database 'records > $ mysqladmin -u root password 'rootpassword' returns > mysqladmin: connect to server at 'localhost' failed > Error: access denied for user 'root at localhost' (Using Password: NO) > (this also was run as root with similar results) > Reference is made in the documentation of 'syntax.txt' which I don't have. > I just can't see how to get administrator privileges at server level... > Did you have any success Jim, and if so could you or any other Plugger give > me a lead on where to go from here please. > > regards > Dave Dartnall > > I managed to get mine working by starting over from scratch. I had dug my hole too deep. The key was (a last resort!) studying the documentation (sigh). /usr/share/doc/MySQL-4.0.18/manual.html After installing the RPMs, section 2.4.2 contains unix post-installation procedures. If you are installing from RPMs, do not try to execute mysql_install_db. It has already been done. 'mysql -u root password' tries to open a database named 'password' which does not exist. If you are not user 'root' or 'mysql', you will not see the mysql database, only test. Initially no passwords are set. > mysql -u root mysql should give you access to the 'mysql' database which stores the usernamess & privileges > mysql -u root -p mysql does the same, but asks for a password before proceeding. HTH Jim From billk at iinet.net.au Sat Jul 10 14:44:23 2004 From: billk at iinet.net.au (William Kenworthy) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 14:44:23 +0800 Subject: [plug] mysql installation In-Reply-To: <40EF7F2C.8020009@westnet.com.au> References: <200407101244.28269.darts@dialix.com.au> <40EF7F2C.8020009@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <1089441863.12546.5.camel@rattus.Localdomain> Keep in mind that a standard mysql is not integrated into the password OS system. The default mysql root user is totally separate from the root administrator - from memory (its been awhile), the root password is blank - this is not as bad as it at first seems as it is tied to localhost, and you as the user are expected to go in and configure the system as per the mysql documents immediately after install. However, each OS has probably altered the mysql defaults to match their own security model so you should start there is installing from other than an original mysql package (i.e., mandrake, RH etc. BillK On Sat, 2004-07-10 at 13:31, Jim Householder wrote: > Dave Dartnall wrote: > > I note a recent request for assistance from Jim Householder re a mysql > > installation in Mandrake 10. I'm having exactly the same problems... > > > > The mysql installation went well, mysql_install_db was run as root (as > > suggested by Leon Kyneur), I can 'USE test' and create tables in this From vk6ksj at westnet.com.au Sat Jul 10 00:23:51 2004 From: vk6ksj at westnet.com.au (Kai) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 00:23:51 +0800 Subject: [plug] MDK 10 on HP NX9010 In-Reply-To: References: <40EC6CC7.4070008@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <40EEC697.6060800@westnet.com.au> James Budworth wrote: > On Thu, 8 Jul 2004, Kai wrote: > > >>Hi guys and girls, >> >>I bought an HP Compaq NX9010 >>(http://www.ht.com.au/Scripts/xworks.exe?PART:M1158#Tof) a few weeks ago >>and I dropped into Linux IT and bought Mdk 10 Official. >> >>Tried installing Mdk 10 Official but the installer hangs just after the >>initialisation screen, I've heard there might be a glitch with the first >>install CD so I tried CD 2 and after a bit of waiting and some expected >>noise from CD/DVD I get the message "I can't access a Mandrake Linux >>Installation Disk in your CDROM Drive (_NEC DVD+RW _ND-5100). Retry ?" >> >>I google'd a bit and found a page on someone who tried installing Red >>Hat 9 and who had problems with it, one of their many suggestions is to >>use "linux nousb nopcmcia noprobe nofirewire" at the boot:- prompt, but >>that didn't do any good. >> >>If anyone has any suggestions or pages they recommend I read about the >>problem, please let me know >> >>Thanks >>Kai > > > I ran into a similar problem myself, before the GUI installer was loaded. > > It turns out that there is a problem when you burn the disk, and that one > solution I have heard is to burn it at the lowest speed you can. > > This fixed the problem I had. > > The problem I had is discussed here. > http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=191208 I just finished downloading Mdk 10 Official CD 1, burned it at 4x (lowest speed my burner runs at) and tried it....same problem :-/ From darts at dialix.com.au Sat Jul 10 20:53:15 2004 From: darts at dialix.com.au (Dave Dartnall) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 20:53:15 +0800 Subject: [plug] mysql installation In-Reply-To: <40EF7F2C.8020009@westnet.com.au> References: <200407101244.28269.darts@dialix.com.au> <40EF7F2C.8020009@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <200407102053.15703.darts@dialix.com.au> On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 01:31 pm, Jim Householder wrote: > Dave Dartnall wrote: > > I note a recent request for assistance from Jim Householder re a mysql > > installation in Mandrake 10. I'm having exactly the same problems... > > > > The mysql installation went well, mysql_install_db was run as root (as > > suggested by Leon Kyneur), I can 'USE test' and create tables in this > > database, populate and retrieve data from them etc but... > > mysql> SHOW DATABASES; returns 'test' only, no reference to mysql or > > tmp. mysql> CREATE DATABASE records; returns: > > ERROR 1044: Access denied for user : '@localhost' to database 'records > > $ mysqladmin -u root password 'rootpassword' returns > > mysqladmin: connect to server at 'localhost' failed > > Error: access denied for user 'root at localhost' (Using Password: NO) > > (this also was run as root with similar results) > > Reference is made in the documentation of 'syntax.txt' which I don't > > have. I just can't see how to get administrator privileges at server > > level... > I managed to get mine working by starting over from scratch. I had dug my > hole too deep. The key was (a last resort!) studying the documentation > (sigh). /usr/share/doc/MySQL-4.0.18/manual.html > After installing the RPMs, section 2.4.2 contains unix post-installation > procedures. If you are installing from RPMs, do not try to execute > mysql_install_db. It has already been done. > 'mysql -u root password' tries to open a database named 'password' which > does not exist. > If you are not user 'root' or 'mysql', you will not see the mysql database, > only test. > Initially no passwords are set. > > mysql -u root mysql > should give you access to the 'mysql' database which stores the usernamess > & privileges > > mysql -u root -p mysql > does the same, but asks for a password before proceeding. > Jim Thanks Jim and William Kenworthy... I've removed and reinstalled twice, and get the feeling that the MDK has done their installation with a root password. I have indeed rtfm with little success - any effort to execute mysql -u root mysql or similar have all resulted in denial of access, contrary to what's described in the docs. I'm stumped. - but still trying. Very. It's not easy reading those docs - there are over 700 pages of 'em. Dave D From darts at dialix.com.au Sat Jul 10 20:59:18 2004 From: darts at dialix.com.au (Dave Dartnall) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 20:59:18 +0800 Subject: [plug] MDK 10 on HP NX9010 In-Reply-To: <40EEC697.6060800@westnet.com.au> References: <40EC6CC7.4070008@westnet.com.au> <40EEC697.6060800@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <200407102059.18080.darts@dialix.com.au> On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 12:23 am, Kai wrote: > James Budworth wrote: > > On Thu, 8 Jul 2004, Kai wrote: > >>Hi guys and girls, > >> > >>I bought an HP Compaq NX9010 > >>(http://www.ht.com.au/Scripts/xworks.exe?PART:M1158#Tof) a few weeks ago > >>and I dropped into Linux IT and bought Mdk 10 Official. > >> > >>Tried installing Mdk 10 Official but the installer hangs just after the > >>initialisation screen, I've heard there might be a glitch with the first > >>install CD so I tried CD 2 and after a bit of waiting and some expected > >>noise from CD/DVD I get the message "I can't access a Mandrake Linux > >>Installation Disk in your CDROM Drive (_NEC DVD+RW _ND-5100). Retry ?" > >> > >>I google'd a bit and found a page on someone who tried installing Red > >>Hat 9 and who had problems with it, one of their many suggestions is to > >>use "linux nousb nopcmcia noprobe nofirewire" at the boot:- prompt, but > >>that didn't do any good. > >> > >>If anyone has any suggestions or pages they recommend I read about the > >>problem, please let me know > >> > >>Thanks > >>Kai I have an official 10.0 set that you can borrow if you like. I live in Dianella phone 9276 3295. I'm a dialup subscriber and it might be quicker if you phone if you think the originals would be any help. regards Dave Dartnall From plug at jensz.id.au Sat Jul 10 21:03:31 2004 From: plug at jensz.id.au (Ben Jensz) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 21:03:31 +0800 Subject: [plug] MDK 10 on HP NX9010 In-Reply-To: <200407102059.18080.darts@dialix.com.au> References: <40EC6CC7.4070008@westnet.com.au> <40EEC697.6060800@westnet.com.au> <200407102059.18080.darts@dialix.com.au> Message-ID: <40EFE923.5050708@jensz.id.au> Kai is normally in Broome (like me), but from where he is at the moment he's even further away :) (he's in Sweden) / Ben Dave Dartnall wrote: > >I have an official 10.0 set that you can borrow if you like. I live in >Dianella phone 9276 3295. I'm a dialup subscriber and it might be quicker if >you phone if you think the originals would be any help. >regards >Dave Dartnall > > From nofixed at westnet.com.au Sun Jul 11 00:54:00 2004 From: nofixed at westnet.com.au (Jim Householder) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 00:54:00 +0800 Subject: [plug] mysql installation In-Reply-To: <200407102053.15703.darts@dialix.com.au> References: <200407101244.28269.darts@dialix.com.au> <40EF7F2C.8020009@westnet.com.au> <200407102053.15703.darts@dialix.com.au> Message-ID: <40F01F28.7090102@westnet.com.au> > > Thanks Jim and William Kenworthy... > I've removed and reinstalled twice, and get the feeling that the MDK has done > their installation with a root password. I have indeed rtfm with little > success - any effort to execute mysql -u root mysql or similar have all > resulted in denial of access, contrary to what's described in the docs. I'm > stumped. - but still trying. Very. > It's not easy reading those docs - there are over 700 pages of 'em. > Dave D > _______________________________________________ Make sure when you uninstall, that you remove or otherwise hide /var/lib/mysql. It contains the initial databases and will not be changed when the software is reinstalled. Jim From vk6ksj at westnet.com.au Sun Jul 11 01:06:42 2004 From: vk6ksj at westnet.com.au (Kai) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 01:06:42 +0800 Subject: [plug] MDK 10 on HP NX9010 In-Reply-To: <200407102059.18080.darts@dialix.com.au> References: <40EC6CC7.4070008@westnet.com.au> <40EEC697.6060800@westnet.com.au> <200407102059.18080.darts@dialix.com.au> Message-ID: <40F02222.5060405@westnet.com.au> Dave Dartnall wrote: > On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 12:23 am, Kai wrote: > >>James Budworth wrote: >> >>>On Thu, 8 Jul 2004, Kai wrote: >>> >>>>Hi guys and girls, >>>> >>>>I bought an HP Compaq NX9010 >>>>(http://www.ht.com.au/Scripts/xworks.exe?PART:M1158#Tof) a few weeks ago >>>>and I dropped into Linux IT and bought Mdk 10 Official. >>>> >>>>Tried installing Mdk 10 Official but the installer hangs just after the >>>>initialisation screen, I've heard there might be a glitch with the first >>>>install CD so I tried CD 2 and after a bit of waiting and some expected >>>>noise from CD/DVD I get the message "I can't access a Mandrake Linux >>>>Installation Disk in your CDROM Drive (_NEC DVD+RW _ND-5100). Retry ?" >>>> >>>>I google'd a bit and found a page on someone who tried installing Red >>>>Hat 9 and who had problems with it, one of their many suggestions is to >>>>use "linux nousb nopcmcia noprobe nofirewire" at the boot:- prompt, but >>>>that didn't do any good. >>>> >>>>If anyone has any suggestions or pages they recommend I read about the >>>>problem, please let me know >>>> >>>>Thanks >>>>Kai > > > I have an official 10.0 set that you can borrow if you like. I live in > Dianella phone 9276 3295. I'm a dialup subscriber and it might be quicker if > you phone if you think the originals would be any help. > regards > Dave Dartnall Hehe, thanks Dave but, like Ben said, I'm currently in Sweden (if anyone cares I'm in G?vle right now, going Stockholm tomorrow) and when I get back to Australia in a coupla weeks there isn't enough time between when I land in Perth and my connecting flight back to Broome. When I get near another computer, possibly some time later tonight (~19:00 in Sweden right now), I'll try both my Installation CD's and see if they get past the first stage. Cheers Kai From billk at iinet.net.au Sun Jul 11 10:08:31 2004 From: billk at iinet.net.au (William Kenworthy) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 10:08:31 +0800 Subject: [plug] mysql installation In-Reply-To: <200407102053.15703.darts@dialix.com.au> References: <200407101244.28269.darts@dialix.com.au> <40EF7F2C.8020009@westnet.com.au> <200407102053.15703.darts@dialix.com.au> Message-ID: <1089511711.16794.8.camel@rattus.Localdomain> Try "mysql -u root at localhost -p mysql" and just press enter when it asks for the password. Also, mysql logins usually use the originators machine name as part of the login name: you are trying to login from the localhost, as root at localhost? BillK On Sat, 2004-07-10 at 20:53, Dave Dartnall wrote: > On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 01:31 pm, Jim Householder wrote: > > Dave Dartnall wrote: > > > I note a recent request for assistance from Jim Householder re a mysql > > > installation in Mandrake 10. I'm having exactly the same problems... > > > > > > The mysql installation went well, mysql_install_db was run as root (as > > > suggested by Leon Kyneur), I can 'USE test' and create tables in this > > > database, populate and retrieve data from them etc but... > > > mysql> SHOW DATABASES; returns 'test' only, no reference to mysql or > > > tmp. mysql> CREATE DATABASE records; returns: > > > ERROR 1044: Access denied for user : '@localhost' to database 'records > > > $ mysqladmin -u root password 'rootpassword' returns > > > mysqladmin: connect to server at 'localhost' failed > > > Error: access denied for user 'root at localhost' (Using Password: NO) > > > (this also was run as root with similar results) > > > Reference is made in the documentation of 'syntax.txt' which I don't > > > have. I just can't see how to get administrator privileges at server > > > level... > > > I managed to get mine working by starting over from scratch. I had dug my > > hole too deep. The key was (a last resort!) studying the documentation > > (sigh). /usr/share/doc/MySQL-4.0.18/manual.html > > After installing the RPMs, section 2.4.2 contains unix post-installation > > procedures. If you are installing from RPMs, do not try to execute > > mysql_install_db. It has already been done. > > 'mysql -u root password' tries to open a database named 'password' which > > does not exist. > > If you are not user 'root' or 'mysql', you will not see the mysql database, > > only test. > > Initially no passwords are set. > > > mysql -u root mysql > > should give you access to the 'mysql' database which stores the usernamess > > & privileges > > > mysql -u root -p mysql > > does the same, but asks for a password before proceeding. > > Jim > Thanks Jim and William Kenworthy... > I've removed and reinstalled twice, and get the feeling that the MDK has done > their installation with a root password. I have indeed rtfm with little > success - any effort to execute mysql -u root mysql or similar have all > resulted in denial of access, contrary to what's described in the docs. I'm > stumped. - but still trying. Very. > It's not easy reading those docs - there are over 700 pages of 'em. > Dave D > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From mark at musicalstoat.co.uk Sun Jul 11 14:28:25 2004 From: mark at musicalstoat.co.uk (Mark O'Shea) Date: 11 Jul 2004 14:28:25 +0800 Subject: [plug] mysql installation In-Reply-To: <1089511711.16794.8.camel@rattus.Localdomain> References: <200407101244.28269.darts@dialix.com.au> <40EF7F2C.8020009@westnet.com.au> <200407102053.15703.darts@dialix.com.au> <1089511711.16794.8.camel@rattus.Localdomain> Message-ID: <1089527307.947.12.camel@anya> On Sun, 2004-07-11 at 10:08, William Kenworthy wrote: > Try "mysql -u root at localhost -p mysql" and just press enter when it asks > for the password. > > Also, mysql logins usually use the originators machine name as part of > the login name: you are trying to login from the localhost, as > root at localhost? > > BillK > > On Sat, 2004-07-10 at 20:53, Dave Dartnall wrote: > > On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 01:31 pm, Jim Householder wrote: > > > Dave Dartnall wrote: > > Thanks Jim and William Kenworthy... > > I've removed and reinstalled twice, and get the feeling that the MDK has done > > their installation with a root password. I have indeed rtfm with little > > success - any effort to execute mysql -u root mysql or similar have all > > resulted in denial of access, contrary to what's described in the docs. I'm > > stumped. - but still trying. Very. > > It's not easy reading those docs - there are over 700 pages of 'em. > > Dave D > > _______________________________________________ Also note that you can stop the root (mysql) password getting in your way by stopping mysql and using this line to start it again: safe_mysqld --skip-grant-tables Then just use this to log in: mysql -u root and it will take you in. When you are in you can use the usual: flush privileges; to get the password restriction back. Regards, -- Mark O'Shea From billk at iinet.net.au Sun Jul 11 14:29:44 2004 From: billk at iinet.net.au (William Kenworthy) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 14:29:44 +0800 Subject: [plug] mysql installation In-Reply-To: <1089527307.947.12.camel@anya> References: <200407101244.28269.darts@dialix.com.au> <40EF7F2C.8020009@westnet.com.au> <200407102053.15703.darts@dialix.com.au> <1089511711.16794.8.camel@rattus.Localdomain> <1089527307.947.12.camel@anya> Message-ID: <1089527384.16794.10.camel@rattus.Localdomain> Neat, thats worth knowing! BillK On Sun, 2004-07-11 at 14:28, Mark O'Shea wrote: > On Sun, 2004-07-11 at 10:08, William Kenworthy wrote: > > Try "mysql -u root at localhost -p mysql" and just press enter when it asks > > for the password. > > > > Also, mysql logins usually use the originators machine name as part of > > the login name: you are trying to login from the localhost, as > > root at localhost? > > > > BillK > > > > On Sat, 2004-07-10 at 20:53, Dave Dartnall wrote: > > > On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 01:31 pm, Jim Householder wrote: > > > > Dave Dartnall wrote: > > > Thanks Jim and William Kenworthy... > > > I've removed and reinstalled twice, and get the feeling that the MDK has done > > > their installation with a root password. I have indeed rtfm with little > > > success - any effort to execute mysql -u root mysql or similar have all > > > resulted in denial of access, contrary to what's described in the docs. I'm > > > stumped. - but still trying. Very. > > > It's not easy reading those docs - there are over 700 pages of 'em. > > > Dave D > > > _______________________________________________ > > Also note that you can stop the root (mysql) password getting in your > way by stopping mysql and using this line to start it again: > safe_mysqld --skip-grant-tables > > Then just use this to log in: > mysql -u root > and it will take you in. When you are in you can use the usual: > flush privileges; > to get the password restriction back. > > Regards, From senectus at gmail.com Sun Jul 11 14:45:18 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 14:45:18 +0800 Subject: [plug] Revolution OS movie? Message-ID: I was wondering if anyone knows if the "revolution OS movie is "free as in beer"? If it is I might crank some copies out for the installfest... -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From caston at arach.net.au Sun Jul 11 15:55:34 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 15:55:34 +0800 Subject: [plug] Revolution OS movie? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1089532534.2233.2.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2004-07-11 at 14:45, Senectus . wrote: > I was wondering if anyone knows if the "revolution OS movie is "free > as in beer"? > If it is I might crank some copies out for the installfest... I think it might not be. On the website it says: From caston at arach.net.au Sun Jul 11 15:55:57 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 15:55:57 +0800 Subject: [plug] Revolution OS movie? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1089532557.2233.4.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2004-07-11 at 14:45, Senectus . wrote: > I was wondering if anyone knows if the "revolution OS movie is "free > as in beer"? > If it is I might crank some copies out for the installfest... I think it might not be. On the website it says: ?Copyright 2002 Wonderview Productions, LLC All Rights Reserved From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Sun Jul 11 16:09:09 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 16:09:09 +0800 Subject: [plug] Revolution OS movie? In-Reply-To: <1089532557.2233.4.camel@localhost> References: <1089532557.2233.4.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20040711080909.GA31110@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Hi, In message <1089532557.2233.4.camel at localhost> on Sun, Jul 11, 2004 at 03:55:57PM +0800, Chris Caston wrote: > On Sun, 2004-07-11 at 14:45, Senectus . wrote: > > I was wondering if anyone knows if the "revolution OS movie is "free > > as in beer"? > I think it might not be. On the website it says: > ?Copyright 2002 Wonderview Productions, LLC All Rights Reserved Note that is almost beside the point: if no one owned copyright (i.e. it was in the public domain) the question needn't have been asked. And normally, you'd have to assume that somebody owns copyright. Basically, almost all recently-made "free" work will have a copyright owner. Note that you can't dictate openness (a la GPL) unless you own copyright rights. Also, I just looked at a random Linux file and it contains "Copyright (C) 1991, 1992 Linus Torvalds". (No surprises there.) "All rights reserved" does not imply anything other than what we would have to assume in its absence anyway. (This might vary from country to country, though.) I'm fairly sure that Markus just wants to know about distribution rights (i.e. is there a licence to redistribute without modification?). In general, we have to assume that this is *not* allowed, unless explicitly advised otherwise. Senectus: does the DVD have a LICENCE file ;-) From mungotheb at hotmail.com Sun Jul 11 16:18:36 2004 From: mungotheb at hotmail.com (Mungo TheB) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 08:18:36 +0000 Subject: [plug] next distro? Message-ID: well I started with mandrake and that has held my hand while learning :) I've dabbled with gentoo but takes ssssooooooooooo long (esp. when i stuff things and start again :) what I want is a quick install distro (for getting up and running) but standard so I dont have to jump loops (dont mind tinkering&learning) and where everything is standard (can do a compile and not do loops to get it workin) even though sometimes you have too :) the OLD problem, not sure what ya want til you find it :) debian? suse? bullet in head? :) haha cant want it tooo easy (otherwise i be usuing windows :) umm which I do as fall back :( MungoTheB _________________________________________________________________ SEEK: Now with over 50,000 dream jobs! Click here: http://ninemsn.seek.com.au?hotmail From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Sun Jul 11 16:34:07 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 16:34:07 +0800 Subject: [plug] next distro? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040711083407.GA31625@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message on Sun, Jul 11, 2004 at 08:18:36AM +0000, Mungo TheB wrote: > debian? suse? bullet in head? :) haha I haven't been reading the Mandrake threads so I suppose I've missed your reason for moving away from Mandrake. Anything in particular, or just dramas with the latest versions? You have a lot of arbitrary choice about what distributions you could use. Any constraints other than those that you've mentioned? > cant want it tooo easy (otherwise i be usuing windows :) As someone from a non-Windows background, I find Windows to be anything but easy, esp. if used as a workstation (kiosks seem to be reasonable and I don't know about Windows servers). On the other hand, I just find PC hardware difficult in itself -- took me three hours to partition the hard drive of the computer I'm using now (including battling with futility against the Windows installer because it only wanted to install onto the "C" drive and it had unfathomable ideas about what "C" was) and I never found any useful explanation of the rationale and consequences of "primary" versus "extended" versus "logical" partitions. > otherwise i be usuing windows...which I do as fall back :( Pick a joke: (a) under emulation, you mean? ;-) (b) Is that what you call "falling on your sword"? ;-) From onno at itmaze.com.au Sun Jul 11 16:35:17 2004 From: onno at itmaze.com.au (Onno Benschop) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 18:35:17 +1000 Subject: [plug] next distro? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1089534917.4297.121.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> On Sun, 2004-07-11 at 18:18, Mungo TheB wrote: > debian? suse? bullet in head? :) haha Download knoppix, burn a CD, boot from the CD, installation complete. When you know what you're doing you can make it into a Debian system :-) Onno Benschop Connected via Optus B3 at S27?52'30" - E151?16'25" (Millmerran, QLD) -- ()/)/)() ..ASCII for Onno.. |>>? ..EBCDIC for Onno.. --- -. -. --- ..Morse for Onno.. Proudly supported by Skipper Trucks, Highway1, Concept AV, Sony Central, Dalcon ITmaze - ABN: 56 178 057 063 - ph: 04 1219 8888 - onno at itmaze dot com dot au From caston at arach.net.au Sun Jul 11 17:05:21 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 17:05:21 +0800 Subject: [plug] next distro? In-Reply-To: <1089534917.4297.121.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> References: <1089534917.4297.121.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> Message-ID: <1089536721.2233.7.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2004-07-11 at 16:35, Onno Benschop wrote: > On Sun, 2004-07-11 at 18:18, Mungo TheB wrote: > > debian? suse? bullet in head? :) haha > > Download knoppix, burn a CD, boot from the CD, installation complete. > > When you know what you're doing you can make it into a Debian system :-) A highly bloated one at that. Try the Sarge Installer: http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ > > Onno Benschop > > Connected via Optus B3 at S27?52'30" - E151?16'25" (Millmerran, QLD) From bernard at blackham.com.au Sun Jul 11 17:11:42 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 17:11:42 +0800 Subject: [plug] Fw: [plug-ctte] linux help request Message-ID: <20040711091142.GA15150@blackham.com.au> ----- Forwarded message from David Hillier ----- Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 12:30:54 +0800 From: David Hillier To: committee at plug.org.au Subject: [plug-ctte] linux I would like to get involved in using the linux operating system but to date I have had very little success in obtaining a working version of linux ,I did purchase a copy of 9.1 some time ago from the shop in Fremantle but when installed returned various errors I then proceeded to download version 10 of mandrake and again simular errors but not the same mostly to do with the KDE suite of functions, so I then switched to the SUSE version of linux which actually ran on a friends computer for a while until it finally died never to be resurrected I do realise that there are tens of thousands of computers running this system very successfully worldwide ,so it obviously must be something that I am not doing Any help and advise would be appreciated My objective is to setup a fax and file server for my business as MS windows 2000 and XP does not support the "Telstra fax stream duet using distinctive ring "this I didn't know until after the purchase of the hardware etc Regards David ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Bernard Blackham From bernard at blackham.com.au Sun Jul 11 17:32:15 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 17:32:15 +0800 Subject: [plug] Re: Fw: [plug-ctte] linux help request In-Reply-To: <20040711091142.GA15150@blackham.com.au> References: <20040711091142.GA15150@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: <20040711093215.GD15150@blackham.com.au> On Sun, Jul 11, 2004 at 05:11:42PM +0800, Bernard Blackham wrote: > I would like to get involved in using the linux operating system but to date > I have had very little success in obtaining a working version of linux Hi David, PLUG is holding an Installfest next Sunday, 18th July. This is probably the best place to get hands-on help with installing Linux on your machine. You can find more information and register at http://installfest.plug.org.au/ . Hope to see you there :) Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From grail at westnet.com.au Sun Jul 11 17:58:28 2004 From: grail at westnet.com.au (Craig Dyke) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 17:58:28 +0800 Subject: [plug] next distro? In-Reply-To: <1089536721.2233.7.camel@localhost> References: <1089534917.4297.121.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> <1089536721.2233.7.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <40F10F44.40103@westnet.com.au> Chris Caston wrote: Or you could just go to http://www.distrowatch.com/ and read some of the reviews and pick for yourself :) >On Sun, 2004-07-11 at 16:35, Onno Benschop wrote: > > >>On Sun, 2004-07-11 at 18:18, Mungo TheB wrote: >> >> >>>debian? suse? bullet in head? :) haha >>> >>> >>Download knoppix, burn a CD, boot from the CD, installation complete. >> >>When you know what you're doing you can make it into a Debian system :-) >> >> > >A highly bloated one at that. > >Try the Sarge Installer: > >http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ > > > >>Onno Benschop >> >>Connected via Optus B3 at S27?52'30" - E151?16'25" (Millmerran, QLD) >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > From mungotheb at hotmail.com Sun Jul 11 19:23:37 2004 From: mungotheb at hotmail.com (Mungo TheB) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 11:23:37 +0000 Subject: [plug] next distro? Message-ID: do I take it that debian seems the main one here? Yep! I like a distro that i can quickly get up (esp as i tinker with it till i break it, then have to reinstall and yes that included ALL the windows versions too :) The LiveCD distro's seem a go, mainly as rescues disk. but a fair few are starting to make it possable to boot (maybe install) and go. mainly I'm getting sick of the upgrade cycle (3.1 3.11 w95 w97 wxp mdk7 mdk8 mdk9 mdk10 but I DO learn a lot, i'm going grey now :) dont hate any of them, they did their job at the time. MungoTheB _________________________________________________________________ Get a Credit Card - 60 sec online response: http://ad.au.doubleclick.net/clk;8097459;9106288;b?http://www.anz.com/aus/promo/qantas5000ninemsn [AU only] From quadfour at iinet.net.au Sun Jul 11 22:05:52 2004 From: quadfour at iinet.net.au (Michael Collard) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 22:05:52 +0800 Subject: [plug] Revolution OS movie? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1089554752.20692.9.camel@natalie> It tells you in the credits, can't be distributed, modified etc... Bit of a shame, I wanted to take snippets of it. Regards Michael Collard On Sun, 2004-07-11 at 14:45, Senectus . wrote: > I was wondering if anyone knows if the "revolution OS movie is "free > as in beer"? > If it is I might crank some copies out for the installfest... From caston at arach.net.au Sun Jul 11 22:16:54 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 22:16:54 +0800 Subject: [plug] Revolution OS movie? In-Reply-To: <1089554752.20692.9.camel@natalie> References: <1089554752.20692.9.camel@natalie> Message-ID: <1089555414.5253.10.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2004-07-11 at 22:05, Michael Collard wrote: > It tells you in the credits, can't be distributed, modified etc... Bit > of a shame, I wanted to take snippets of it. I thought this might be the case. Good thing all the software is free though :) Nothing worse than a movie about all the things that you can't afford. > > Regards > Michael Collard > > On Sun, 2004-07-11 at 14:45, Senectus . wrote: > > I was wondering if anyone knows if the "revolution OS movie is "free > > as in beer"? > > If it is I might crank some copies out for the installfest... > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Mon Jul 12 00:53:57 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 00:53:57 +0800 Subject: [plug] next distro? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40F170A5.9060005@postnewspapers.com.au> Mungo TheB wrote: > what I want is a quick install distro (for getting up and running) but > standard so I dont have to jump loops (dont mind tinkering&learning) > and where everything is standard (can do a compile and not do loops to > get it workin) even though sometimes you have too :) I find Fedora does the job very nicely for just that. FC1 anyway; FC2 seems to be only half-baked from what I've heard, but half of that is a 2.6 kernel bug on partition tables and a GNOME defaults change some people LOVE to hate. The only things I've custom built on my FC1 systems are KDE3.2, Ghoscript CVS, LittleCMS, and Scribus CVS. Pretty incredible compared to my usual, where I begin to wonder why I don't dpkg --remove / rpm -e most of the OS and just rebuilt it _all_. I found the Fedora GNOME quite usable for GNOME (sufficiently so that I actually used it for 3 months or so before trying KDE3.2, which in severly reconfigured form I'm still using). As prior to that I was a staunch "anything but either KDE _or_ GNOME" user, I think that's significant. Of course, YYMV, and many seem to consider Debian Sarge a viable alternative. This seems much more reasonable to me than it did a while ago, as now it looks to have a chance of actually stabilising to release within a year ;-) -- Craig Ringer From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Mon Jul 12 07:27:47 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 07:27:47 +0800 Subject: [plug] next distro? In-Reply-To: <40F170A5.9060005@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <40F170A5.9060005@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <20040711232747.GH7515@cp.yi.org> Craig Ringer wrote: > I find Fedora does the job very nicely for just that. FC1 anyway; FC2 > seems to be only half-baked from what I've heard I've heard that. I just installed FC2 on a scratch partition at home last night and was quite impressed. Haven't played with it enough to see what it's like for /real/ usage, but I'd imagine that its quirks would annoy me and I'd have to rebuild a few things from source. One thing I noticed in 30 seconds of using it was that it didn't install libsmbclient by default so printing to windows printers and accessing windows shares was broken. > The only things I've custom built on my FC1 systems are KDE3.2, > Ghoscript CVS, LittleCMS, and Scribus CVS. Pretty incredible compared to > my usual, where I begin to wonder why I don't dpkg --remove / rpm -e > most of the OS and just rebuilt it _all_. Why don't you make your own RPMs? On my Debian systems I have a few custom-built debs that I like to use. I can stick them in an apt repository and install them easily from anywhere. Presumably Fedora can do something similar -- I mean, Debian Potato which introduced apt is only four years old! > Of course, YYMV, and many seem to consider Debian Sarge a viable > alternative. (Your Y....... May Vary?) It is, /but/ it will take some fiddling to get a usable system from the default install sadly. I should probably go and to a clean install and file bugs on everything that appears to be broken... > This seems much more reasonable to me than it did a while ago, as > now it looks to have a chance of actually stabilising to release > within a year ;-) Indeed :-) If you do want to install Sarge, it's probably easiest to use the new beta debian installer: http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ The beta4 installer works, but there have been a few nice improvements in sid_d-i (the daily builds) so you might want to try that. (It's the "if you'd like something newer" link on the page above.) Cameron. From senectus at gmail.com Mon Jul 12 08:03:01 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 08:03:01 +0800 Subject: [plug] next distro? In-Reply-To: <20040711232747.GH7515@cp.yi.org> References: <40F170A5.9060005@postnewspapers.com.au> <20040711232747.GH7515@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: > > (Your Y....... May Vary?) > Your Yardage May Vary?? I didn't think he was THAT old ;-) -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From rob at rjdarts.com Mon Jul 12 09:14:21 2004 From: rob at rjdarts.com (Rob Davies) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 09:14:21 +0800 Subject: [plug] next distro? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Morning All, On 11/07/2004, at 4:18pm, Mungo TheB wrote: > well I started with mandrake and that has held my hand while learning > :) > I've dabbled with gentoo but takes ssssooooooooooo long (esp. when i > stuff things and start again :) > > what I want is a quick install distro (for getting up and running) but > standard so I dont have to jump loops (dont mind tinkering&learning) > and where everything is standard (can do a compile and not do loops to > get it workin) even though sometimes you have too :) > > the OLD problem, not sure what ya want til you find it :) > > debian? suse? bullet in head? :) haha > cant want it tooo easy (otherwise i be usuing windows :) umm which I > do as fall back :( > > Mungo TheB, try Slackware www.slackware.com and for packages you may require linuxpackages.net, there are also various links to info and security sites here plus a selection of forums. mirror.pacific.net.au has the Slackware distro mirrored and yes this is waix compatible, but linuxpackages.net has no local mirror? If you are interested in a Gnome style interface their is a project known as Dropline Gnome http://www.dropline.net/gnome/ it is specific to i686 machines and Slackware, but if you are after a collection of programs based around Gnome it is compiled for said architecture. I find iit very stable and an easy way of getting a viable workstation happening very quickly while allowing access to my beloved Slackware! I will now duck for cover, ouch! Cheers! Rob Davies rob at rjdarts.com "It is the world which makes known to us our belonging to a subject-communtiy, especially the existence in the world of the manufactured objects." Sartre. From myk at westnet.com.au Mon Jul 12 09:20:22 2004 From: myk at westnet.com.au (Michael Holland) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 09:20:22 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Revolution OS movie? In-Reply-To: <1089554752.20692.9.camel@natalie> References: <1089554752.20692.9.camel@natalie> Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Jul 2004, Michael Collard wrote: > It tells you in the credits, can't be distributed, modified etc... Bit > of a shame, I wanted to take snippets of it. It doesn't matter what it says. They cannot take away the "fair use" rights. Oh wait, this is Australia. Do we have any fair use rights? We're not allowed to tape TV (time-shift), unlike the Americans, but we do it anyway. I'm sure you can take snippets without trouble. -- Reading this .sig? So are your customers. From jfs.world at gmail.com Mon Jul 12 10:07:41 2004 From: jfs.world at gmail.com (Jeffrey Lim) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 10:07:41 +0800 Subject: [plug] Revolution OS movie? In-Reply-To: References: <1089554752.20692.9.camel@natalie> Message-ID: <4b3125cc040711190767dce37e@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 09:20:22 +0800 (WST), Michael Holland wrote: >I'm sure you can take snippets without trouble. yeah - or show snippets of it (by playing from the original dvd - instead of clipping it out), so long as the snippets are not distributed. I'm sure the guys will appreciate the publicity. ;) heck u could even take orders for the actual dvd after the installfest, or viewing... -jf From caston at arach.net.au Mon Jul 12 10:33:06 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 10:33:06 +0800 Subject: [plug] Revolution OS movie? In-Reply-To: <4b3125cc040711190767dce37e@mail.gmail.com> References: <1089554752.20692.9.camel@natalie> <4b3125cc040711190767dce37e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1089599586.2048.0.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2004-07-12 at 10:07, Jeffrey Lim wrote: > On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 09:20:22 +0800 (WST), Michael Holland > wrote: > >I'm sure you can take snippets without trouble. > > yeah - or show snippets of it (by playing from the original dvd - > instead of clipping it out), so long as the snippets are not > distributed. I'm sure the guys will appreciate the publicity. ;) > I just hope that it is an original. :) > heck u could even take orders for the actual dvd after the > installfest, or viewing... > > -jf > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From anarchist_tomato at hotmail.com Mon Jul 12 11:41:48 2004 From: anarchist_tomato at hotmail.com (John Knight) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 11:41:48 +0800 Subject: [plug] next distro? Message-ID: Sounds liek aserious Libranet case! ;p You need a niche distro, once every while a plugger finds his niche and roams free.... "...it was brilliant, there was three up against a thousand, and boy, did we give those three heaps!" >well I started with mandrake and that has held my hand while learning :) >I've dabbled with gentoo but takes ssssooooooooooo long (esp. when i stuff >things and start again :) > >what I want is a quick install distro (for getting up and running) but >standard so I dont have to jump loops (dont mind tinkering&learning) >and where everything is standard (can do a compile and not do loops to get >it workin) even though sometimes you have too :) > >the OLD problem, not sure what ya want til you find it :) > >debian? suse? bullet in head? :) haha >cant want it tooo easy (otherwise i be usuing windows :) umm which I do as >fall back :( > >MungoTheB _________________________________________________________________ SEEK: Now with over 50,000 dream jobs! Click here: http://ninemsn.seek.com.au?hotmail From bret at busby.net Mon Jul 12 11:51:37 2004 From: bret at busby.net (Bret Busby) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 11:51:37 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Debian Sarge - was Re: [plug] next distro? In-Reply-To: <20040711232747.GH7515@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Jul 2004, Cameron Patrick wrote: > > Craig Ringer wrote: > > > > Of course, YYMV, and many seem to consider Debian Sarge a viable > > alternative. > > (Your Y....... May Vary?) > Plurry acronyms! > > If you do want to install Sarge, it's probably easiest to use the new > beta debian installer: http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ > The beta4 installer works, but there have been a few nice improvements > in sid_d-i (the daily builds) so you might want to try that. (It's > the "if you'd like something newer" link on the page above.) > > Cameron. > > From: > Subject: Debian Weekly News - July 6th, 2004 > > State of Sarge Debian-Installer: Broken. Joey Hess [30]looked at > sarge's debian-installer and concluded that it is broken. He sees many > instances of changes that break dependencies. He thought it likely > that sid's d-i now has less bugs than sarge's and that sid is > diverging too far from sarge for it to be easy to keep maintaining > sarge. He may throw away the plan of incremental copying of binary > packages into sarge, and revert to taking a snapshot, hoping that it > mostly works and copying everything to sarge in one go for a release. > > 30. http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2004/07/msg00053.html > > >From the above, I get the impression that the Debian installer for Sarge, is broken. Perhaps, I have misinterpreted that? -- Bret Busby Armadale West Australia .............. "So once you do know what the question actually is, you'll know what the answer means." - Deep Thought, Chapter 28 of "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: A Trilogy In Four Parts", written by Douglas Adams, published by Pan Books, 1992 .................................................... From bernard at blackham.com.au Mon Jul 12 12:11:22 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 12:11:22 +0800 Subject: [plug] ** July PLUG Seminar Notice ** Message-ID: <20040712041121.GR2482@blackham.com.au> Title: Laptops, Linux and Life. Venue: Lecture Theatre TAFE CMC - 25 Aberdeen St, Perth When: Tuesday 13th July 2004, 7:30pm - 9:00pm Presenter: Yours Truly. Abstract: This talk will cover tips, tricks and traps with Linux on laptops. More specifically, getting hibernation working, power-saving techniques and generally getting the most out of your laptop. Visitors and friends are most welcome. Detail about this and other events may be found on the (*new!*) PLUG website at http://plug.linux.org.au/events/ Cheers, Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From senectus at gmail.com Mon Jul 12 12:15:12 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 12:15:12 +0800 Subject: [plug] ** July PLUG Seminar Notice ** In-Reply-To: <20040712041121.GR2482@blackham.com.au> References: <20040712041121.GR2482@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: > > Abstract: > This talk will cover tips, tricks and traps with Linux on laptops. > More specifically, getting hibernation working, power-saving > techniques and generally getting the most out of your laptop. > Cool! This one I am very interested in. I hope to see info on wireless and samba tricks on multiple strange Windows domains/Workgroups. :-) -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From bernard at blackham.com.au Mon Jul 12 12:25:01 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 12:25:01 +0800 Subject: [plug] ** July PLUG Seminar Notice ** In-Reply-To: References: <20040712041121.GR2482@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: <20040712042501.GS2482@blackham.com.au> On Mon, Jul 12, 2004 at 12:15:12PM +0800, Senectus . wrote: > > Abstract: > > This talk will cover tips, tricks and traps with Linux on laptops. > > More specifically, getting hibernation working, power-saving > > techniques and generally getting the most out of your laptop. > > > Cool! This one I am very interested in. > I hope to see info on wireless and samba tricks on multiple strange > Windows domains/Workgroups. :-) Wireless, yes. Samba, no. :) Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au Mon Jul 12 13:49:50 2004 From: jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au (Jon Miller) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 13:49:50 +0800 Subject: [plug] ** July PLUG Seminar Notice ** Message-ID: Benard, Are you going to begin with an installation or will it be done already. Also which flavor or Linux are you planning to use? Thanks Jon L. Miller, MCNE, CNS, ASE Director/Sr Systems Consultant MMT Networks Pty Ltd http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby >>> bernard at blackham.com.au 12:11:22 pm 12/07/2004 >>> Title: Laptops, Linux and Life. Venue: Lecture Theatre TAFE CMC - 25 Aberdeen St, Perth When: Tuesday 13th July 2004, 7:30pm - 9:00pm Presenter: Yours Truly. Abstract: This talk will cover tips, tricks and traps with Linux on laptops. More specifically, getting hibernation working, power-saving techniques and generally getting the most out of your laptop. Visitors and friends are most welcome. Detail about this and other events may be found on the (*new!*) PLUG website at http://plug.linux.org.au/events/ Cheers, Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham _______________________________________________ PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au From onno at itmaze.com.au Mon Jul 12 12:54:17 2004 From: onno at itmaze.com.au (Onno Benschop) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 14:54:17 +1000 Subject: [plug] ** July PLUG Seminar Notice ** In-Reply-To: <20040712041121.GR2482@blackham.com.au> References: <20040712041121.GR2482@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: <1089608056.3471.15.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> On Mon, 2004-07-12 at 14:11, Bernard Blackham wrote: > Abstract: > This talk will cover tips, tricks and traps with Linux on laptops. > More specifically, getting hibernation working, power-saving > techniques and generally getting the most out of your laptop. As I'm going to be in QLD while you're talking about this, are you planning to provide some docs associated with this, alternatively, is someone going to be either taking notes or taping it? While I don't have a lap-top as such, my Cappuccino PC could do with some hibernation/software suspend and I've not been successful in getting any of that to work in any meaningful way. /me keeps fingers crossed :-) Onno Benschop Connected via Optus B3 at S27?52'30" - E151?16'25" (Millmerran, QLD) -- ()/)/)() ..ASCII for Onno.. |>>? ..EBCDIC for Onno.. --- -. -. --- ..Morse for Onno.. Proudly supported by Skipper Trucks, Highway1, Concept AV, Sony Central, Dalcon ITmaze - ABN: 56 178 057 063 - ph: 04 1219 8888 - onno at itmaze dot com dot au From harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au Mon Jul 12 13:54:16 2004 From: harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au (Harry) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 13:54:16 +0800 Subject: [plug] PC/104 POST card In-Reply-To: <20E0F651F8B82F45ABCBACC58A2D995B033303@mexper1> References: <20E0F651F8B82F45ABCBACC58A2D995B033303@mexper1> Message-ID: <20040712135416.09f12613.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> On Wed, 26 May 2004 10:11:41 +0800 "John Usher (Maptek)" wrote: > Hi all, > > I urgently need to get hold of a PC/104 POST card for some LinuxBIOS > work. For future reference, ICP Australia have just quoted $78 + $15 delivery (ex-GST price) for the A104-KIT01A seen here: http://www.icp-australia.com.au/DataSheets/A104-Kit01A.html This card has the advantage that it can be used as a PC-104 carrier for standard ISA for people testing and coding for PC-104 embedded cards in a standard PC. It can also be used the other way with an additional passive ISA backplane to (temporarily) hang some ISA cards off a PC-104 buss. The PC-104 buss has a lighter drive current spec but it can be used with one (or two) ISA cards for testing and devel purposes. All the best Harry -- Are you a computer angel? http://www.computerangels.org.au/ From jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au Mon Jul 12 14:47:27 2004 From: jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au (Jon Miller) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 14:47:27 +0800 Subject: [plug] command for listing Message-ID: Being new to Debian I still have some learning to do. In RH if I wanted a listing of the pakages installed and their version I sould issue rpm -qa | gre [package] Is there a similar command in Debian? Thanks Jon L. Miller, MCNE, CNS, ASE Director/Sr Systems Consultant MMT Networks Pty Ltd http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby From r.steicke at bom.gov.au Mon Jul 12 14:02:05 2004 From: r.steicke at bom.gov.au (Russell Steicke) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 14:02:05 +0800 Subject: [plug] command for listing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040712060205.GX11731@postoffice.wa.bom.gov.au> On Mon, Jul 12, 2004 at 02:47:27PM +0800, Jon Miller wrote: > Being new to Debian I still have some learning to do. In RH if I > wanted a listing of the pakages installed and their version I sould > issue rpm -qa | gre [package] > > Is there a similar command in Debian? dpkg -l packagename dpkg globs, so dpkg -l \*kde\* also works. -- Russell Steicke -- Fortune says: Knowledge is power. -- Francis Bacon From mark at musicalstoat.co.uk Mon Jul 12 14:08:45 2004 From: mark at musicalstoat.co.uk (Mark O'Shea) Date: 12 Jul 2004 14:08:45 +0800 Subject: [plug] command for listing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1089612528.939.4.camel@anya> On Mon, 2004-07-12 at 14:47, Jon Miller wrote: > Being new to Debian I still have some learning to do. In RH if I wanted a listing of the pakages installed and their version I sould issue rpm -qa | gre [package] > > Is there a similar command in Debian? > > Thanks > Hi, Yes: dpkg -l [package] Or I suppose: dpkg -l | grep [package] if you want exactly the same functionality Regards, -- Mark O'Shea From jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au Mon Jul 12 15:08:14 2004 From: jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au (Jon Miller) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 15:08:14 +0800 Subject: [plug] command for listing Message-ID: Thanks for that, Jon L. Miller, MCNE, CNS, ASE Director/Sr Systems Consultant MMT Networks Pty Ltd http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby >>> r.steicke at bom.gov.au 2:02:05 pm 12/07/2004 >>> On Mon, Jul 12, 2004 at 02:47:27PM +0800, Jon Miller wrote: > Being new to Debian I still have some learning to do. In RH if I > wanted a listing of the pakages installed and their version I sould > issue rpm -qa | gre [package] > > Is there a similar command in Debian? dpkg -l packagename dpkg globs, so dpkg -l \*kde\* also works. -- Russell Steicke -- Fortune says: Knowledge is power. -- Francis Bacon _______________________________________________ PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au From jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au Mon Jul 12 15:42:19 2004 From: jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au (Jon Miller) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 15:42:19 +0800 Subject: [plug] help request: installing web server on Debian Message-ID: Doing a ps -A it does show apache running, I still get the server error: 403 Forbidden; access denied; /doc/index on Firefox. why is it showing /doc/index when it should be /var/www/index.html or just index.html? Is this a permission issue? I did an apt-get install apache to install apache and made the changes to the Bindaddress * by removing the # in front of the line and added the name of the domain to the ServerName line and then save the file. I issued a /etc/init.d/apache restart and tried to access it with a browser and got the message. I then checked to this with lynx and I get the webpage (I'm expecting) so I feel apache is working. It is possible that this may be a firewall issue from the router. If anyone can think of anything else I need to look into I would appreciate it. Thanks Jon Jon L. Miller, MCNE, CNS, ASE Director/Sr Systems Consultant MMT Networks Pty Ltd http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby >>> onno at itmaze.com.au 9:13:55 am 9/07/2004 >>> First of all: *STOP* sending HTML attachments. On Fri, 2004-07-09 at 10:00, Jon Miller wrote: > After installing Apache on a Debian server and trying to access the > site I keep getting a HTTP 403 Forbibben, I haven't added anything > special in /etc/apache/httpd.conf other than what I want on and not on > (signatures = off) > The only file in /var/www is the index.html with the following > permissions > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4110 Oct 26 2002 index.html Does ps -A show apache running? (It should) The 403 Forbidden message should create an entry in both /var/log/apache/error.log and /var/log/apache/access.log. Your extract does not show this. > output of /var/log/apache/error.log > > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] SIGUSR1 received. Doing graceful restart > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [error] (2)No such file or directory: mod_mime_magic: can't read magic file /etc/apache/share/magic > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) Debian GNU/Linux configured -- resuming normal operations > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] suEXEC mechanism enabled (wrapper: /usr/lib/apache/suexec) > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] Accept mutex: sysvsem (Default: sysvsem) > Do I need to establish a link to the magic file in /etc? No, there is something else broken there, because I don't have that directory either. Onno Benschop Connected via Optus B3 at S27?52'30" - E151?16'25" (Millmerran, QLD) -- ()/)/)() ..ASCII for Onno.. |>>? ..EBCDIC for Onno.. --- -. -. --- ..Morse for Onno.. Proudly supported by Skipper Trucks, Highway1, Concept AV, Sony Central, Dalcon ITmaze - ABN: 56 178 057 063 - ph: 04 1219 8888 - onno at itmaze dot com dot au _______________________________________________ PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au From sol at autonomon.net Mon Jul 12 09:37:23 2004 From: sol at autonomon.net (Sol Hanna) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 09:37:23 +0800 Subject: [plug] help request: installing web server on Debian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1089596243.2528.14.camel@chomsky.autonomon.org> On Mon, 2004-07-12 at 15:42, Jon Miller wrote: > Doing a ps -A it does show apache running, I still get the server error: 403 Forbidden; access denied; /doc/index on Firefox. why is it showing /doc/index when it should be /var/www/index.html or just index.html? Is this a permission issue? > I did an apt-get install apache to install apache and made the changes to the Bindaddress * by removing the # in front of the line and added the name of the domain to the ServerName line and then save the file. I issued a /etc/init.d/apache restart and tried to access it with a browser and got the message. I then checked to this with lynx and I get the webpage (I'm expecting) so I feel apache is working. Sounds like it is, but that Firefox isn't. Have you tried another browser (apart from Lynx & Firefox)? What domain are you trying to reach? Out of the box these should work: http://localhost/index.html http://127.0.0.1/index.html This is all assuming the default Debian config for apache and that you have a file /var/www/index.html. (Also note that /usr/share/doc/ is often mapped to http://{hostname}/doc/ so you can access your system documentation via a browser.) HTH; sol > > It is possible that this may be a firewall issue from the router. If anyone can think of anything else I need to look into I would appreciate it. > > Thanks > > > Jon > > Jon L. Miller, MCNE, CNS, ASE > Director/Sr Systems Consultant > MMT Networks Pty Ltd > http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au > > "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure > is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby > > > > >>> onno at itmaze.com.au 9:13:55 am 9/07/2004 >>> > First of all: *STOP* sending HTML attachments. > > On Fri, 2004-07-09 at 10:00, Jon Miller wrote: > > After installing Apache on a Debian server and trying to access the > > site I keep getting a HTTP 403 Forbibben, I haven't added anything > > special in /etc/apache/httpd.conf other than what I want on and not on > > (signatures = off) > > The only file in /var/www is the index.html with the following > > permissions > > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4110 Oct 26 2002 index.html > > Does ps -A show apache running? (It should) > > The 403 Forbidden message should create an entry in both > /var/log/apache/error.log and /var/log/apache/access.log. > > Your extract does not show this. > > > output of /var/log/apache/error.log > > > > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] SIGUSR1 received. Doing graceful restart > > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [error] (2)No such file or directory: mod_mime_magic: can't read magic file /etc/apache/share/magic > > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) Debian GNU/Linux configured -- resuming normal operations > > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] suEXEC mechanism enabled (wrapper: /usr/lib/apache/suexec) > > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] Accept mutex: sysvsem (Default: sysvsem) > > > > Do I need to establish a link to the magic file in /etc? > > No, there is something else broken there, because I don't have that > directory either. > > > Onno Benschop > > Connected via Optus B3 at S27??52'30" - E151??16'25" (Millmerran, QLD) -- ------------------------ Sol Hanna sol at autonomon dot net ------------------------ From quadfour at iinet.net.au Mon Jul 12 15:21:13 2004 From: quadfour at iinet.net.au (Michael) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 15:21:13 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Revolution OS movie? In-Reply-To: <4b3125cc040711190767dce37e@mail.gmail.com> References: <1089554752.20692.9.camel@natalie> <4b3125cc040711190767dce37e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Jul 2004, Jeffrey Lim wrote: > > On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 09:20:22 +0800 (WST), Michael Holland > wrote: > >I'm sure you can take snippets without trouble. > > yeah - or show snippets of it (by playing from the original dvd - > instead of clipping it out), so long as the snippets are not > distributed. I'm sure the guys will appreciate the publicity. ;) > > heck u could even take orders for the actual dvd after the > installfest, or viewing... I've been able to do OK without it actually. Sure I don't have Linus in the video but its still attention-grabbing. Plus I don't want to do illegal with a video (mine) that I intend to distribute. Regards Michael Collard From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Mon Jul 12 16:46:08 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 16:46:08 +0800 Subject: [plug] Debian Sarge - was Re: [plug] next distro? In-Reply-To: References: <20040711232747.GH7515@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <20040712084608.GU7515@cp.yi.org> Bret Busby wrote: > > State of Sarge Debian-Installer: Broken. Joey Hess [30]looked at > > sarge's debian-installer and concluded that it is broken. He sees many > > instances of changes that break dependencies. He thought it likely > > that sid's d-i now has less bugs than sarge's and that sid is > > diverging too far from sarge for it to be easy to keep maintaining > > sarge. He may throw away the plan of incremental copying of binary > > packages into sarge, and revert to taking a snapshot, hoping that it > > mostly works and copying everything to sarge in one go for a release. > > From the above, I get the impression that the Debian installer for > Sarge, is broken. > > Perhaps, I have misinterpreted that? Yes. Much like there are sarge and sid branches of Debian, there are also sarge and sid branches of d-i; both of them can install either sarge or sid, but sarge_d-i is the testing/beta release of the /installer/ and sid_d-i is the bleeding edge release of the installer. The idea was, after beta 4 they'd only let in new packages that fixed bugs, and then they'd have a release candidate ready for a few weeks ago. Problem was, people added big new features and rewrote things and so on, and the versions in sarge_d-i became really old and new fixed packages couldn't move in because they required the nice new features and basically, it wasn't working. So sarge_d-i was abandoned (I think it's currently a symlink to sid_d-i), and sid_d-i (a.k.a. the daily builds) is what you want to use. The new plan is that the next beta release (beta 5) will just be "sid_d-i as such and such a day, where the developers tested it and nothing seems to be broken". Cameron. From John.Usher at perth.maptek.com.au Mon Jul 12 17:12:19 2004 From: John.Usher at perth.maptek.com.au (John Usher (Maptek)) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 17:12:19 +0800 Subject: [OT] RE: [plug] PC/104 POST card Message-ID: <20E0F651F8B82F45ABCBACC58A2D995B56452A@mexper1> >For future reference, ICP Australia have just quoted $78 + $15 delivery >(ex-GST price) for the A104-KIT01A seen here: >http://www.icp-australia.com.au/DataSheets/A104-Kit01A.html >It can also be used the other way with an additional passive ISA backplane >to (temporarily) hang some ISA cards off a PC-104 buss. The PC-104 buss has >a lighter drive current spec but it can be used with one (or two) ISA cards >for testing and devel purposes. Thanks, Harry! In the end I obtained a pc/104->isa adapter and an isa pc/104. Of course just to be a pain in the arse the ISA adapter, being the full 16 bits, is too long for the SBC board and hits the heatsink on the CPU! Doh! Still, if I don't quite push the card in the entire way it all works fine. However I'm probably going to get a dremel and cut the converter down to an 8-bit ISA bus! On an equally off-topic note, I am currently investigating an Xscale board which seems to be more than a match for a celeron-400 board! Its neat to see the intel linux app more or less just cross compile and run, too!!! From bernard at blackham.com.au Mon Jul 12 17:47:17 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 17:47:17 +0800 Subject: [plug] ** July PLUG Seminar Notice ** In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040712094717.GU2482@blackham.com.au> On Mon, Jul 12, 2004 at 01:49:50PM +0800, Jon Miller wrote: > Are you going to begin with an installation or will it be done > already. We'll assume you already have Linux installed on your machine, else I think I'd bore everybody to tears. :) > Also which flavor or Linux are you planning to use? Linux is linux. There isn't much difference between distros. (it doesn't matter) Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From bernard at blackham.com.au Mon Jul 12 17:51:51 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 17:51:51 +0800 Subject: [plug] ** July PLUG Seminar Notice ** In-Reply-To: <1089608056.3471.15.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> References: <20040712041121.GR2482@blackham.com.au> <1089608056.3471.15.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> Message-ID: <20040712095150.GV2482@blackham.com.au> On Mon, Jul 12, 2004 at 02:54:17PM +1000, Onno Benschop wrote: > As I'm going to be in QLD while you're talking about this, are you > planning to provide some docs associated with this, alternatively, is > someone going to be either taking notes or taping it? There'll be slides, but also a live demonstration which won't be in it. We could probably arrange for the audio to be recorded too. > While I don't have a lap-top as such, my Cappuccino PC could do with > some hibernation/software suspend and I've not been successful in > getting any of that to work in any meaningful way. Well I guarantee I won't be saying anything that inspiring, it'll cover some of what hardware what does work and what is known to cause issues. > /me keeps fingers crossed :-) Now I have expectations to live up to ... eep! :) Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au Mon Jul 12 17:59:02 2004 From: harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au (Harry) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 17:59:02 +0800 Subject: [OT] RE: [plug] PC/104 POST card In-Reply-To: <20E0F651F8B82F45ABCBACC58A2D995B56452A@mexper1> References: <20E0F651F8B82F45ABCBACC58A2D995B56452A@mexper1> Message-ID: <20040712175902.4fb815f3.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 17:12:19 +0800 "John Usher (Maptek)" wrote: > In the end I obtained a pc/104->isa adapter and an isa pc/104. Hi John I'm thinking "pc/104->isa adapter and an isa post" was what you meant. > Of course .. ISA adapter .. too long .. Doh! .. get .. dremel .. cut .. > down .. to .. 8-bit ISA ! Eek. Noo! What about if you want to re-use the adaptor and test a 16 bit card ? Can't you dremelise[0] the lower edge of the board to go over the CPU without amputating 8 bits ?! Have you got headroom to put a set of PC-104 plug/socket buss connectors in between the two and another set of stand-offs (I may be misunderstanding the topology of the problem here. If so, not to worry.) > On an equally off-topic note, I am currently investigating an Xscale > board which seems to be more than a match for a celeron-400 board! Its > neat to see the intel linux app more or less just cross compile and run, > too!!! Well, if your code was this portable then you need a pay rise ;-) All the best Harry [0] Yes I know this isn't a word J and C. Resist that Reply button urge .. r .. e .. s .. i .. s .. t .. ;-P From bernard at blackham.com.au Mon Jul 12 18:06:15 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 18:06:15 +0800 Subject: [plug] Installfest flyers - Please Distribute! In-Reply-To: <20040706012943.GL4062@blackham.com.au> References: <20040706012943.GL4062@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: <20040712100614.GX2482@blackham.com.au> On Tue, Jul 06, 2004 at 09:29:43AM +0800, Bernard Blackham wrote: > If you would love to distribute some, but don't have access to a > printer or photocopier to print enough, let me know and we can > probably get you a bundle. Today the flyers (and Cameron and I) have travelled far and wide. The following places have posters and flyers (and almost all were very happy to accept and help out! Some of them said they'd probably even turn up :) : - Dan Computers (Freo) - LinuxIT - Netway (Southlands, Willetton) - Austin Computers (Cannington) - Arrow Computers (Cannington) - Hardware House (Hay St, Perth) - James Computers (Northbridge) - PLE (Wangara) Austin Computers in Osborne Park refused to help distribute because they claim that Linux was causing more troubles for them and they didn't want any more. I suggested they could recommend people contact PLUG, as that's one of the things we're here for. But he became less and less amicable so I gave up. :( Hi-Micro Computers on Albany Highway also refused to let us borrow an A4 patch of wallspace for a few days, asking for something in return, where the something didn't seem all that trivial. Exhausted. Thanks to Cameron for navigating and putting up with me :) Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Mon Jul 12 18:15:00 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 18:15:00 +0800 Subject: [plug] Installfest flyers - Please Distribute! In-Reply-To: <20040712100614.GX2482@blackham.com.au> References: <20040706012943.GL4062@blackham.com.au> <20040712100614.GX2482@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: <20040712101500.GY7515@cp.yi.org> Bernard Blackham wrote: > > If you would love to distribute some, but don't have access to a > > printer or photocopier to print enough, let me know and we can > > probably get you a bundle. > > Today the flyers (and Cameron and I) have travelled far and wide. The flyers that we distributed are slightly modified from (and more colourful than) the ones mentioned earlier. For those who want to print their own (*hint hint*), the new flyers in PDF and OpenOffice format can be found at the same place: http://installfest.plug.org.au/flyers/ The new ones have -4- in the file name. If you only have a black and white printer, the older (-3-) versions may be better. > [snip list] That still leaves the Osborne Park area, Joondalup, Morley/Malaga, and other miscellaneous places (e.g. MCG Tech in Balcatta, Netway in Wembley) for others to cover. *hint hint* > Exhausted. So I take it you didn't visit anywhere but Austins in Osborne Park? Cameron. From bernard at blackham.com.au Mon Jul 12 18:18:19 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 18:18:19 +0800 Subject: [plug] Installfest flyers - Please Distribute! In-Reply-To: <20040712101500.GY7515@cp.yi.org> References: <20040706012943.GL4062@blackham.com.au> <20040712100614.GX2482@blackham.com.au> <20040712101500.GY7515@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <20040712101819.GZ2482@blackham.com.au> On Mon, Jul 12, 2004 at 06:15:00PM +0800, Cameron Patrick wrote: > So I take it you didn't visit anywhere but Austins in Osborne Park? Netplus weren't in the phonebook I had on me. Domain Technology weren't where the phonebook I had on me said they were, and it was 5pm :) Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From vk6ksj at westnet.com.au Mon Jul 12 20:04:52 2004 From: vk6ksj at westnet.com.au (Kai) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 20:04:52 +0800 Subject: [plug] Good for a laugh Message-ID: <40F27E64.7000608@westnet.com.au> Here's nice peice of satire for a Monday evening... Dell stops shipping Windows on all its computers http://mainpage.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/07/07/1848210 From sboak at westnet.com.au Mon Jul 12 20:16:07 2004 From: sboak at westnet.com.au (Steve Boak) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 20:16:07 +0800 Subject: [plug] ** July PLUG Seminar Notice ** In-Reply-To: <1089608056.3471.15.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> References: <20040712041121.GR2482@blackham.com.au> <1089608056.3471.15.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> Message-ID: <200407122016.07236.sboak@westnet.com.au> On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 12:54 pm, Onno Benschop wrote: > On Mon, 2004-07-12 at 14:11, Bernard Blackham wrote: > > Abstract: > > This talk will cover tips, tricks and traps with Linux on laptops. > > More specifically, getting hibernation working, power-saving > > techniques and generally getting the most out of your laptop. > > As I'm going to be in QLD while you're talking about this, are you > planning to provide some docs associated with this, alternatively, is > someone going to be either taking notes or taping it? [...] Or a webcast (audio only would do) for us distance-challenged people? Steve -- "Most men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and continue on as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill From onno at itmaze.com.au Mon Jul 12 20:25:10 2004 From: onno at itmaze.com.au (Onno Benschop) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 22:25:10 +1000 Subject: [plug] ** July PLUG Seminar Notice ** In-Reply-To: <200407122016.07236.sboak@westnet.com.au> References: <20040712041121.GR2482@blackham.com.au> <1089608056.3471.15.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> <200407122016.07236.sboak@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <1089635110.3471.49.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> On Mon, 2004-07-12 at 22:16, Steve Boak wrote: > Or a webcast (audio only would do) for us distance-challenged people? Yup, I'd be in that! Onno Benschop Connected via Optus B3 at S27?52'30" - E151?16'25" (Millmerran, QLD) -- ()/)/)() ..ASCII for Onno.. |>>? ..EBCDIC for Onno.. --- -. -. --- ..Morse for Onno.. Proudly supported by Skipper Trucks, Highway1, Concept AV, Sony Central, Dalcon ITmaze - ABN: 56 178 057 063 - ph: 04 1219 8888 - onno at itmaze dot com dot au From lee.jamieson at bigpond.com Mon Jul 12 20:38:49 2004 From: lee.jamieson at bigpond.com (Lee Jamieson) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 20:38:49 +0800 Subject: [plug] ** July PLUG Seminar Notice ** In-Reply-To: <1089635110.3471.49.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> References: <20040712041121.GR2482@blackham.com.au> <1089608056.3471.15.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> <200407122016.07236.sboak@westnet.com.au> <1089635110.3471.49.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> Message-ID: <40F28659.8030006@bigpond.com> Onno Benschop wrote: > On Mon, 2004-07-12 at 22:16, Steve Boak wrote: > >>Or a webcast (audio only would do) for us distance-challenged people? > > > Yup, I'd be in that! > > > Onno Benschop > > Connected via Optus B3 at S27?52'30" - E151?16'25" (Millmerran, QLD) Count me in on that too! From davecook at iinet.net.au Mon Jul 12 21:48:08 2004 From: davecook at iinet.net.au (Dave Cook) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 21:48:08 +0800 Subject: [plug] Questions what is required for wireless setup Message-ID: <000a01c46816$df093bb0$0500a8c0@beast> Hey All, I would like to look at getting a wireless setup happening - the network and phone cable running down the hallway is driving my GF mad.. Current setup is: P133 running Linux with modem attached running at internet gateway and squid cache for my main pc Main PC Duron 750 (soon to be XP2000+ as soon as I get new ram and mobo) - running WinXP - will dual boot to with linux when running XP2000+ GF's PC Cele 500 running Win2k Also have a Kyocera fs-1700 with network connected too All connected via 8 port switch - often connect other boxes to switch when rebuilding for friends/family etc. Do I just need to go for a wireless pci card for GFs computer, then get a wireless AP (with bridge mode) to connect to the switch, or is it more complicated than that? My GF's computer needs to be able to communicate with the linux box, main PC and Printer without having to stuff around with configuration changes. Thanks for any advice - suggestions on brands would also be welcomed - thinking of 802.11G, but need to keep costs reasonable. Cheers, Dave -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bernard at blackham.com.au Tue Jul 13 00:32:41 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 00:32:41 +0800 Subject: [plug] ** July PLUG Seminar Notice ** In-Reply-To: <200407122016.07236.sboak@westnet.com.au> References: <20040712041121.GR2482@blackham.com.au> <1089608056.3471.15.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> <200407122016.07236.sboak@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <20040712163241.GD2482@blackham.com.au> On Mon, Jul 12, 2004 at 08:16:07PM +0800, Steve Boak wrote: > On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 12:54 pm, Onno Benschop wrote: > > On Mon, 2004-07-12 at 14:11, Bernard Blackham wrote: > > > Abstract: > > > This talk will cover tips, tricks and traps with Linux on laptops. > > > More specifically, getting hibernation working, power-saving > > > techniques and generally getting the most out of your laptop. > > > > As I'm going to be in QLD while you're talking about this, are you > > planning to provide some docs associated with this, alternatively, is > > someone going to be either taking notes or taping it? > [...] > > Or a webcast (audio only would do) for us distance-challenged people? So long as it doesn't have to be live :) Getting internet access out of TAFE has been unfruitful in the past. The next plan was to get a phoneline out and stream audio using speex at 33.6kbps ... Should be feasible, but nobody's gotten around to asking or doing it yet. I'll see if I can figure out how to hook their mics into my laptop or some other recording equipment, but I can't make any promises :( Slides should be up though! Regards, Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From nofixed at westnet.com.au Tue Jul 13 01:28:40 2004 From: nofixed at westnet.com.au (Jim Householder) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 01:28:40 +0800 Subject: [plug] What distro for old laptop? Message-ID: <40F2CA48.60602@westnet.com.au> I have an Acer laptop purchased new in '98 which only has 32MB ram and nil prospect of getting more. Will any recent distro work, or do I have to dredge up RH 7.0 or some such? The ones I have tried using kernel 2.4.? work, but spend most of the time thrashing. Floppies are not an option (I fried the controller) but it will boot from CD. TIA Jim From jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au Tue Jul 13 08:17:49 2004 From: jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au (Jon Miller) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 08:17:49 +0800 Subject: [plug] help request: installing web server on Debian Message-ID: Yes, I did try another browser and got the same problem. www.drfnagle.com.au is the domain. Thanks Jon L. Miller, MCNE, CNS, ASE Director/Sr Systems Consultant MMT Networks Pty Ltd http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby >>> sol at autonomon.net 9:37:23 am 12/07/2004 >>> On Mon, 2004-07-12 at 15:42, Jon Miller wrote: > Doing a ps -A it does show apache running, I still get the server error: 403 Forbidden; access denied; /doc/index on Firefox. why is it showing /doc/index when it should be /var/www/index.html or just index.html? Is this a permission issue? > I did an apt-get install apache to install apache and made the changes to the Bindaddress * by removing the # in front of the line and added the name of the domain to the ServerName line and then save the file. I issued a /etc/init.d/apache restart and tried to access it with a browser and got the message. I then checked to this with lynx and I get the webpage (I'm expecting) so I feel apache is working. Sounds like it is, but that Firefox isn't. Have you tried another browser (apart from Lynx & Firefox)? What domain are you trying to reach? Out of the box these should work: http://localhost/index.html http://127.0.0.1/index.html This is all assuming the default Debian config for apache and that you have a file /var/www/index.html. (Also note that /usr/share/doc/ is often mapped to http://{hostname}/doc/ so you can access your system documentation via a browser.) HTH; sol > > It is possible that this may be a firewall issue from the router. If anyone can think of anything else I need to look into I would appreciate it. > > Thanks > > > Jon > > Jon L. Miller, MCNE, CNS, ASE > Director/Sr Systems Consultant > MMT Networks Pty Ltd > http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au > > "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure > is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby > > > > >>> onno at itmaze.com.au 9:13:55 am 9/07/2004 >>> > First of all: *STOP* sending HTML attachments. > > On Fri, 2004-07-09 at 10:00, Jon Miller wrote: > > After installing Apache on a Debian server and trying to access the > > site I keep getting a HTTP 403 Forbibben, I haven't added anything > > special in /etc/apache/httpd.conf other than what I want on and not on > > (signatures = off) > > The only file in /var/www is the index.html with the following > > permissions > > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4110 Oct 26 2002 index.html > > Does ps -A show apache running? (It should) > > The 403 Forbidden message should create an entry in both > /var/log/apache/error.log and /var/log/apache/access.log. > > Your extract does not show this. > > > output of /var/log/apache/error.log > > > > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] SIGUSR1 received. Doing graceful restart > > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [error] (2)No such file or directory: mod_mime_magic: can't read magic file /etc/apache/share/magic > > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) Debian GNU/Linux configured -- resuming normal operations > > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] suEXEC mechanism enabled (wrapper: /usr/lib/apache/suexec) > > [Fri Jul 9 06:25:01 2004] [notice] Accept mutex: sysvsem (Default: sysvsem) > > > > Do I need to establish a link to the magic file in /etc? > > No, there is something else broken there, because I don't have that > directory either. > > > Onno Benschop > > Connected via Optus B3 at S27??52'30" - E151??16'25" (Millmerran, QLD) -- ------------------------ Sol Hanna sol at autonomon dot net ------------------------ _______________________________________________ PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From onno at itmaze.com.au Tue Jul 13 08:56:20 2004 From: onno at itmaze.com.au (Onno Benschop) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 10:56:20 +1000 Subject: [plug] help request: installing web server on Debian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1089680180.3471.60.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> On Tue, 2004-07-13 at 10:17, Jon Miller wrote: > Yes, I did try another browser and got the same problem. > www.drfnagle.com.au is the domain. Well, there should be an error entry in the logs. Onno Benschop Connected via Optus B3 at S27?52'30" - E151?16'25" (Millmerran, QLD) -- ()/)/)() ..ASCII for Onno.. |>>? ..EBCDIC for Onno.. --- -. -. --- ..Morse for Onno.. Proudly supported by Skipper Trucks, Highway1, Concept AV, Sony Central, Dalcon ITmaze - ABN: 56 178 057 063 - ph: 04 1219 8888 - onno at itmaze dot com dot au From kirk.turner at wagoonline.com Tue Jul 13 09:03:07 2004 From: kirk.turner at wagoonline.com (Kirk Turner) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 09:03:07 +0800 Subject: [plug] What distro for old laptop? In-Reply-To: <40F2CA48.60602@westnet.com.au> References: <40F2CA48.60602@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <20040713010307.GA13070@wagoonline.com> On Tue, Jul 13, 2004 at 01:28:40AM +0800, Jim Householder wrote: > > I have an Acer laptop purchased new in '98 which only has 32MB ram and nil > prospect of getting more. Will any recent distro work, or do I have to > dredge up RH 7.0 or some such? The ones I have tried using kernel 2.4.? > work, but spend most of the time thrashing. I have a P120 with 32MB RAM (thanks Computer Angels) running Debian Woody. Admittedly it is better not to run X, but even so it runs well enough. I've found that the harddrive space is more of a limitation than anything else. > > Floppies are not an option (I fried the controller) but it will boot from > CD. I had some fun trying to get it installed, and had to use a floppy, but if I remember rightly that was because the system didn't boot from CDROM. Kirk From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Tue Jul 13 09:17:32 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 09:17:32 +0800 Subject: [plug] What distro for old laptop? In-Reply-To: <20040713010307.GA13070@wagoonline.com> References: <40F2CA48.60602@westnet.com.au> <20040713010307.GA13070@wagoonline.com> Message-ID: <20040713011732.GA29105@cp.yi.org> Kirk Turner wrote: > > I have an Acer laptop purchased new in '98 which only has 32MB ram and nil > > prospect of getting more. Will any recent distro work, or do I have to > > dredge up RH 7.0 or some such? The ones I have tried using kernel 2.4.? > > work, but spend most of the time thrashing. > I have a P120 with 32MB RAM (thanks Computer Angels) running Debian Woody. > Admittedly it is better not to run X, but even so it runs well enough. If you run something /really/ lightweight (like fvwm or ratpoison or maybe even {black,flux,open}box) then you should be alright under X. Stick to using little web browsers (e.g. w3m, links, dillo); little mail clients (e.g. mutt, sylpheed); little editors (vim, not emacs :-P) and using the command line (or even "mc" Midnight Commander which is a clone of Norton Commander for DOS) for file management. Don't know what (if any) Open Office-equivalents would work on that kind of hardware. Abiword and Gnumeric? Cameron. From John.Usher at perth.maptek.com.au Tue Jul 13 09:39:27 2004 From: John.Usher at perth.maptek.com.au (John Usher (Maptek)) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 09:39:27 +0800 Subject: [OT] RE: [plug] PC/104 POST card Message-ID: <20E0F651F8B82F45ABCBACC58A2D995B56452C@mexper1> > I'm thinking "pc/104->isa adapter and an isa post" was what you meant. yeah. exactly! >Eek. Noo! What about if you want to re-use the adaptor and test a 16 bit card ? >Can't you dremelise[0] the lower edge of the board to go over the CPU without >amputating 8 bits ?! >Have you got headroom to put a set of PC-104 plug/socket buss connectors >in between the two and another set of stand-offs (I may be misunderstanding >the topology of the problem here. If so, not to worry.) Awww....spoil my fun. In the end a pc/104->pcmcia adapter card pushed it all high enough. Of course the bitch of this whole linuxbios project is that everytime it gets a bit further and I have to re-flash, I have to pull all the damned PC/104 cards off the board as the BIOS chip is underneath them! >Well, if your code was this portable then you need a pay rise ;-) I'll let my boss know you said that. Nar, this linux stuff is surprisingly portable. However it looks like the arm is a little more sensitive to reads on a non 4-byte boundary, but instead of crashing you just get the four bytes at the boundary, but in the wrong order. Fun fun fun, but overall, Linux is pretty well behaved compiling cross-platform (so far, touch wood, insert favourite superstition here) From senectus at gmail.com Tue Jul 13 10:31:47 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 10:31:47 +0800 Subject: [plug] What distro for old laptop? In-Reply-To: <20040713011732.GA29105@cp.yi.org> References: <40F2CA48.60602@westnet.com.au> <20040713010307.GA13070@wagoonline.com> <20040713011732.GA29105@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: If you have lots of time on your hand then try out Gentoo :-) Compile everything for your machine specifically and squeeze every last drop of juice out of it ;-) If you'd like to try this but don't have the time to spare for the initial install then go get the anaconda install and recompile key parts at a later date when you do have time.. -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Tue Jul 13 10:36:50 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 10:36:50 +0800 Subject: [plug] What distro for old laptop? In-Reply-To: References: <40F2CA48.60602@westnet.com.au> <20040713010307.GA13070@wagoonline.com> <20040713011732.GA29105@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <20040713023650.GD7515@cp.yi.org> Senectus . wrote: > Compile everything for your machine specifically and squeeze every > last drop of juice out of it ;-) Rather than heavily optimising, I'd imagine that compiling with -Os (optimise for space) might be better on a low-memory machine. Cameron. From sboak at westnet.com.au Tue Jul 13 10:46:43 2004 From: sboak at westnet.com.au (Steve Boak) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 10:46:43 +0800 Subject: Recordings of PLUG talks - Was: Re: [plug] ** July PLUG Seminar Notice ** In-Reply-To: <20040712163241.GD2482@blackham.com.au> References: <20040712041121.GR2482@blackham.com.au> <200407122016.07236.sboak@westnet.com.au> <20040712163241.GD2482@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: <200407131046.43629.sboak@westnet.com.au> On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 12:32 am, Bernard Blackham wrote: > > > > Or a webcast (audio only would do) for us distance-challenged people? > > So long as it doesn't have to be live :) [...] > Bernard. That'll do for me :-) By the way if this talk makes it up on the web, are there any recordings of past talks that could also be made available? Steve -- "Most men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and continue on as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill From senectus at gmail.com Tue Jul 13 10:50:09 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 10:50:09 +0800 Subject: [plug] What distro for old laptop? In-Reply-To: <20040713023650.GD7515@cp.yi.org> References: <40F2CA48.60602@westnet.com.au> <20040713010307.GA13070@wagoonline.com> <20040713011732.GA29105@cp.yi.org> <20040713023650.GD7515@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: Yeah that too.. and if your interested you could use "Distcc" I hear this project is going great guns at the moment.. when I get my home systems back up again I'll give this a go... (power outage in the middle of an upgrade :-( ) On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 10:36:50 +0800, Cameron Patrick wrote: > Senectus . wrote: > > Compile everything for your machine specifically and squeeze every > > last drop of juice out of it ;-) > > Rather than heavily optimising, I'd imagine that compiling with -Os > (optimise for space) might be better on a low-memory machine. > > > > Cameron. > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Tue Jul 13 11:43:16 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 11:43:16 +0800 Subject: [plug] AT PSU Message-ID: <200407131143.16807@death.2.spammers> Sort of OT... I manage several firewalls that are using old AT-style hardware. The power supplies are starting to reach end of life (other than worn fans, leaking capacitors) and I need some new ones. The usual suspects don't seem to stock "baby-AT" PSUs any more. Seems a shame to toss otherwise-working hardware. I have a real problem with charging people $400 for what should be a $50 repair. Does anybody know where I might be able to scare up a couple of new ones? -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From caston at arach.net.au Tue Jul 13 11:57:38 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 11:57:38 +0800 Subject: [plug] AT PSU In-Reply-To: <200407131143.16807@death.2.spammers> References: <200407131143.16807@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <1089691058.2053.3.camel@localhost> On Tue, 2004-07-13 at 11:43, Bernd Felsche wrote: > Sort of OT... > > I manage several firewalls that are using old AT-style hardware. The > power supplies are starting to reach end of life (other than worn > fans, leaking capacitors) and I need some new ones. The usual > suspects don't seem to stock "baby-AT" PSUs any more. > > Seems a shame to toss otherwise-working hardware. I have a real > problem with charging people $400 for what should be a $50 repair. > You have to look at the TCO. $400 might save you chasing the next component that dies and save your customer downtime. Nothing worse then spending your time chasing up second-hand parts. Of course for the times they don't want new hardware I am thankful that I live near a 2nd hand computer store that actually gives reasonable prices even if they are extremely short on anti-static bags. > Does anybody know where I might be able to scare up a couple of new > ones? From scott at linuxit.com.au Tue Jul 13 12:04:11 2004 From: scott at linuxit.com.au (Scott Middleton) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 12:04:11 +0800 Subject: [plug] AT PSU In-Reply-To: <200407131143.16807@death.2.spammers> References: <200407131143.16807@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <1089691451.3181.19.camel@sarge.int.linuxit.com.au> On Tue, 2004-07-13 at 11:43, Bernd Felsche wrote: > Sort of OT... > > I manage several firewalls that are using old AT-style hardware. The > power supplies are starting to reach end of life (other than worn > fans, leaking capacitors) and I need some new ones. The usual > suspects don't seem to stock "baby-AT" PSUs any more. > > Seems a shame to toss otherwise-working hardware. I have a real > problem with charging people $400 for what should be a $50 repair. > > Does anybody know where I might be able to scare up a couple of new > ones? You can buy adaptors that allow you to plug in new ATX PSU to an old Mainboard. I have one in my hand now. I bought it from Evolution Xtreme. I can't remember how much it was but it wasn't expensive. I bought them for the same reason. The ATX PSUs were cheaper than the ATs and starting to get difficult to source. Regards -- Scott Middleton Linux Information Technology From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Tue Jul 13 12:10:11 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 12:10:11 +0800 Subject: [plug] AT PSU In-Reply-To: <1089691058.2053.3.camel@localhost> References: <200407131143.16807@death.2.spammers> <1089691058.2053.3.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <200407131210.11358@death.2.spammers> On Tuesday 13 July 2004 11:57, Chris Caston wrote: > On Tue, 2004-07-13 at 11:43, Bernd Felsche wrote: > > Sort of OT... > > I manage several firewalls that are using old AT-style hardware. The > > power supplies are starting to reach end of life (other than worn > > fans, leaking capacitors) and I need some new ones. The usual > > suspects don't seem to stock "baby-AT" PSUs any more. > > Seems a shame to toss otherwise-working hardware. I have a real > > problem with charging people $400 for what should be a $50 repair. > > You have to look at the TCO. $400 might save you chasing the next > component that dies and save your customer downtime. The customer gives an incredulous look when quoted $1000 to "fix a PSU". It's probably taken an hour or so to diagnose the PSU as being faulty. TCO means bugger all. Most businesses don't even have the sense to have standby hardware for mission-critical applications. If a mainboard fails, then the perspective is different. > Nothing worse then spending your time chasing up second-hand > parts. Of course for the times they don't want new hardware I am I'm looking for NEW power supplies. The $400 cost would be for a system where I can transfer drives. If I can't transfer drives, then it's another $100 or so in hardware and half a day charged to build the machine from scratch, with software installed and configured... > thankful that I live near a 2nd hand computer store that actually > gives reasonable prices even if they are extremely short on > anti-static bags. I have my own stock of anti-stat bags. > > Does anybody know where I might be able to scare up a couple of > > new ones? -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Tue Jul 13 12:19:20 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 12:19:20 +0800 Subject: [plug] AT PSU In-Reply-To: <1089691451.3181.19.camel@sarge.int.linuxit.com.au> References: <200407131143.16807@death.2.spammers> <1089691451.3181.19.camel@sarge.int.linuxit.com.au> Message-ID: <200407131219.20980@death.2.spammers> On Tuesday 13 July 2004 12:04, Scott Middleton wrote: > On Tue, 2004-07-13 at 11:43, Bernd Felsche wrote: > > Sort of OT... > > I manage several firewalls that are using old AT-style hardware. > > The power supplies are starting to reach end of life (other than > > worn fans, leaking capacitors) and I need some new ones. The > > usual suspects don't seem to stock "baby-AT" PSUs any more. > > Does anybody know where I might be able to scare up a couple of > > new ones? > You can buy adaptors that allow you to plug in new ATX PSU to an > old Mainboard. I have one in my hand now. I bought it from > Evolution Xtreme. I can't remember how much it was but it wasn't > expensive. ATX PSU with adaptor would be a solution if the mounting holes weren't different. > I bought them for the same reason. The ATX PSUs were cheaper than the > ATs and starting to get difficult to source. Don't knwo about cheaper; quite a few online retailers list them at $40 or less... but no stock. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From sscott at westnet.com.au Mon Jul 12 18:03:18 2004 From: sscott at westnet.com.au (Simon Scott) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 18:03:18 +0800 Subject: [plug] ** July PLUG Seminar Notice ** In-Reply-To: <20040712094717.GU2482@blackham.com.au> References: <20040712094717.GU2482@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: <200407121803.19002.sscott@westnet.com.au> On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 05:47 pm, Bernard Blackham wrote: > Linux is linux. There isn't much difference between distros. (it > doesn't matter) Ill come, if only to shake your hand... :D -- ================== Simon Scott simon at plumtek.com mob: 0409113359 ================== From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Tue Jul 13 12:27:56 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 12:27:56 +0800 Subject: [plug] Nasty windows viruses (somewhat on topic, really!) Message-ID: <20040713042756.GF7515@cp.yi.org> Hi, I recently noticed high CPU usage and network traffic to my desktop at home without any good reason. Tcpdump showed lots of Samba traffic to my brother's machine, and said brother couldn't think of a good reason why. I suspect a Windows virus or trojan or some such, but am at a loss with regards to what to do about it. I've shut down Samba on my machine and the server (because they allow passwordless write access to a lot of stuff that they really really shouldn't -- I will fix this before turning Samba back on) and have removed network access from my brother's machine for now. So what I really want to know is, how can I find out what files it was poking around in and for how long it's been going on (presumably by looking at Samba logs, but I can't find anything equivalent to ftpd's xferlog or apache's access.log)? How can I find out what the infected machine was running? Should I use a Linux-based virus scanner to inspect it off a Linux boot disc? Alternatively, what are good Windows virus scanners? Is there a better of cleaning up any infections than backing up anything important, wiping the whole disc (and installing Linux on there :-P)? What do Windows viruses/trojans do to machines over SMB? Is this machine also likely to have been sending out spam too? Utterly unrelated question while I'm here: is there a flag to rm to tell it to remove files from directories chmod'ed read-only? Something like 'rm -rf --try-harder'... Cheers, Cameron. From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Tue Jul 13 13:02:17 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 13:02:17 +0800 Subject: [plug] Nasty windows viruses (somewhat on topic, really!) In-Reply-To: <20040713042756.GF7515@cp.yi.org> References: <20040713042756.GF7515@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <20040713050217.GA8165@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <20040713042756.GF7515 at cp.yi.org> on Tue, Jul 13, 2004 at 12:27:56PM +0800, Cameron Patrick wrote: > So what I really want to know is, how can I find out what files it was > poking around in and for how long it's been going on If that is not possible, you might at least able to use `find` and its -atime option to see if any pre-existing files have been unexpectedly accessed. > Utterly unrelated question while I'm here: is there a flag to rm to > tell it to remove files from directories chmod'ed read-only? > Something like 'rm -rf --try-harder'... Would it be feasible for you to use `chmod -R` or `find` to do a "+x" before using rm? From PBennett at arg.net.au Tue Jul 13 13:17:03 2004 From: PBennett at arg.net.au (Bennett, Phillip) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 13:17:03 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] Need Old Video Cards Message-ID: <851545268AD5D5118929000629A8722A0299A1DD@mail.arg.net.au> Hi! As some of you are aware, I am still trying to build up an old SCO system on some new hardware. For this, I'm nearly done (Short term until we port it to Linux) However, I'm in desperate need of some old hardware. And if anyone has old hardware, it's us Linux users. :) Anyway, if anyone can help with any of the following, I'll be eternally greatful. What I need: ATI Ultra, Ultra PRO or Ultra Plus (or anything with an ATI68875 DAC) ATI Mach 64 or Mach 64 GX Boca Voyager Chips and Technology 6430x ColorGraphic Twin Turbo Accellerator (This possibly uses an S3 86c911 chip) Compaq Qvision 1280 Any S3 864/964 chip Stealth 64 or Stealth64 Pro, or Viper card PG1281, or PG1281/S Microfield T8, T8/2, V8, V8/2 Micronics MVC Number 9 GXI Orchid Farenheight 1280 (or above) Pixelworks WhirlWIN Tulip P9000 The most common chip in this list is the 86c911. It features on many, if not most cards. If I could get hold of a card with this chip, regardless of manufacturer, I would greatly appreciate it. Please mail me off list if you can help at all. Thanks in advance, Phil. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott at linuxit.com.au Tue Jul 13 13:33:53 2004 From: scott at linuxit.com.au (Scott Middleton) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 13:33:53 +0800 Subject: [plug] Nasty windows viruses (somewhat on topic, really!) In-Reply-To: <20040713042756.GF7515@cp.yi.org> References: <20040713042756.GF7515@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <1089696833.3181.68.camel@sarge.int.linuxit.com.au> On Tue, 2004-07-13 at 12:27, Cameron Patrick wrote: > Hi, > > I recently noticed high CPU usage and network traffic to my desktop at > home without any good reason. Tcpdump showed lots of Samba traffic to > my brother's machine, and said brother couldn't think of a good reason > why. I suspect a Windows virus or trojan or some such, but am at a > loss with regards to what to do about it. I've shut down Samba on my > machine and the server (because they allow passwordless write access > to a lot of stuff that they really really shouldn't -- I will fix this > before turning Samba back on) and have removed network access from my > brother's machine for now. > > > So what I really want to know is, how can I find out what files it was > poking around in and for how long it's been going on (presumably by > looking at Samba logs, but I can't find anything equivalent to ftpd's > xferlog or apache's access.log)? > > Excerpt from my samba.conf file log level = 3 syslog = 0 log file = /var/log/samba/log.%m max log size = 1000 tail /var/log/samba/log.winxp I used my test XP workstation to access a share and open up an image there. There is a lot of gibberish but you will see lines like this. linuxit opened file Truth_zoom.jpg read=Yes write=No (numopen=3) linuxit closed file Truth_zoom.jpg (numopen=2) Linuxit is the name off the user that accessed the files. Also look for the user nobody. > > How can I find out what the infected machine was running? Should I > use a Linux-based virus scanner to inspect it off a Linux boot disc? > Alternatively, what are good Windows virus scanners? Is there a > better of cleaning up any infections than backing up anything > important, wiping the whole disc (and installing Linux on there :-P)? > > For me it depends on what FS is used. If it is FAT then i remove the HDD and mount on a linux system using my USB 2.0 Caddy and scan using UVSCAN. If it is NTFS I use BartPE which is a Windows LiveCD with NTFS write support. BartPE has support for mcafee as well. OK its not really Linux but it works really well and is easy to use. > > What do Windows viruses/trojans do to machines over SMB? Is this > machine also likely to have been sending out spam too? > > Look for shared directories and copy itself to them. It is not uncommon for people to share their entire C drive. Put itself into random files that may be executed by another user. So on. Kind Regards -- Scott Middleton Linux Information Technology From caston at arach.net.au Tue Jul 13 13:47:57 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 13:47:57 +0800 Subject: [plug] WINE is doing well Message-ID: <1089697676.2053.10.camel@localhost> I just bought a laser cd labeling kit and installed the bundled win32 software "Design Express CD label maker" and it is running flawlessly. Very stable, very fast, very smooth and looks good enough to eat. I had no Windows dll files and I just invoked wine and the setup.exe and everything worked fine. I can see now they are getting to the point where they can actually make a .9 release. regards, -- Chris Caston Aptitude Technology Office: 1300 722 146 Mobile: 0422 978 315 "Ultimately religion and science will be reconciled" -Jon E. Trevathan From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Tue Jul 13 13:54:45 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 13:54:45 +0800 Subject: [plug] AT PSU In-Reply-To: <200407131219.20980@death.2.spammers> References: <200407131143.16807@death.2.spammers> <1089691451.3181.19.camel@sarge.int.linuxit.com.au> <200407131219.20980@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <40F37925.4070800@postnewspapers.com.au> Bernd Felsche wrote: > ATX PSU with adaptor would be a solution if the mounting holes > weren't different. Heh. I've seen one machine with an "interesting" solution to that that involved a file and some glue. *shudders* -- Craig Ringer From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Tue Jul 13 13:59:29 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 13:59:29 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] Need Old Video Cards In-Reply-To: <851545268AD5D5118929000629A8722A0299A1DD@mail.arg.net.au> References: <851545268AD5D5118929000629A8722A0299A1DD@mail.arg.net.au> Message-ID: <40F37A41.3020405@postnewspapers.com.au> Bennett, Phillip wrote: > Any S3 864/964 chip Would that correspond to the S3 Trio32 or S3 Trio64? If so, they're _everywhere_ and I should be able to get hold of one for you. > Number 9 GXI I think I might've seen some of those around - I'll have a look when I get the chance. -- Craig Ringer From John.Usher at perth.maptek.com.au Tue Jul 13 14:02:08 2004 From: John.Usher at perth.maptek.com.au (John Usher (Maptek)) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 14:02:08 +0800 Subject: [plug] AT PSU Message-ID: <20E0F651F8B82F45ABCBACC58A2D995B35B53C@mexper1> > Does anybody know where I might be able to scare up a couple of new > ones? I see you said 'new' but... Theres a computer shop next to an auction house... i think its on railway parade in Maylands or something - they get all the auction stuff that isn't sold... Unfortunately can't remember the name, but they have plenty of second hand ones and they even give a one month warranty or similar. _______________________________________________ PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au From dsbrown at cyllene.uwa.edu.au Tue Jul 13 14:05:03 2004 From: dsbrown at cyllene.uwa.edu.au (Denis Brown) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 14:05:03 +0800 Subject: [plug] WINE is doing well In-Reply-To: <1089697676.2053.10.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040713140001.024187b0@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> At 13:47 13/07/2004 +0800, Chris Caston wrote: >I just bought a laser cd labeling kit and installed the bundled win32 >software "Design Express CD label maker" and it is running flawlessly. >Very stable, very fast, very smooth and looks good enough to eat. > >I had no Windows dll files and I just invoked wine and the setup.exe and >everything worked fine. > >I can see now they are getting to the point where they can actually make >a .9 release. I've used the CodeWeavers Crossover Office version of wine to run ISI Research's EndNote software on a Gentoo system. Very very impressed, to the point we'll spring some dollars their way :-) How the heck they emulate the Windows Registry has got me tossed but what the heck. Now if only SPSS would play the game :-( (PSPP does not cut it, I'm sorry to say.) Cheers, Denis From caston at arach.net.au Tue Jul 13 14:14:28 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 14:14:28 +0800 Subject: [plug] AT PSU In-Reply-To: <20E0F651F8B82F45ABCBACC58A2D995B35B53C@mexper1> References: <20E0F651F8B82F45ABCBACC58A2D995B35B53C@mexper1> Message-ID: <1089699268.2053.21.camel@localhost> On Tue, 2004-07-13 at 14:02, John Usher (Maptek) wrote: > > > Does anybody know where I might be able to scare up a couple of new > > ones? > > I see you said 'new' but... > > Theres a computer shop next to an auction house... i think its on > railway parade in Maylands or something - they get all the auction stuff > that isn't sold... > > Unfortunately can't remember the name, but they have plenty of second > hand ones and they even give a one month warranty or similar. > Yeah it's called TCS. Total Computer Supplies. One of the places I remember applying for work (after getting a tipoff that my dad was just about hire one of their techs at his work) back when I was about 18-19 and getting ignored. Just as well cause I went in there once to see icky Windows running everywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From caston at arach.net.au Tue Jul 13 14:22:43 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 14:22:43 +0800 Subject: [plug] AT PSU In-Reply-To: <1089699268.2053.21.camel@localhost> References: <20E0F651F8B82F45ABCBACC58A2D995B35B53C@mexper1> <1089699268.2053.21.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1089699763.2053.23.camel@localhost> On Tue, 2004-07-13 at 14:14, Chris Caston wrote: > On Tue, 2004-07-13 at 14:02, John Usher (Maptek) wrote: > > > > > Does anybody know where I might be able to scare up a couple of new > > > ones? > > > > I see you said 'new' but... > > > > Theres a computer shop next to an auction house... i think its on > > railway parade in Maylands or something - they get all the auction stuff > > that isn't sold... > > > > Unfortunately can't remember the name, but they have plenty of second > > hand ones and they even give a one month warranty or similar. > > > I apologise I think it was called DCS. Discount etc > Yeah it's called TCS. Total Computer Supplies. One of the places I > remember applying for work (after getting a tipoff that my dad was just > about hire one of their techs at his work) back when I was about 18-19 > and getting ignored. Just as well cause I went in there once to see icky > Windows running everywhere. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > _______________________________________________ > > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From kirk.turner at wagoonline.com Tue Jul 13 14:19:08 2004 From: kirk.turner at wagoonline.com (Kirk Turner) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 14:19:08 +0800 Subject: [plug] AT PSU In-Reply-To: <20E0F651F8B82F45ABCBACC58A2D995B35B53C@mexper1> References: <20E0F651F8B82F45ABCBACC58A2D995B35B53C@mexper1> Message-ID: <20040713061908.GC13070@wagoonline.com> On Tue, Jul 13, 2004 at 02:02:08PM +0800, John Usher (Maptek) wrote: > > > > > Does anybody know where I might be able to scare up a couple of new > > ones? > > I see you said 'new' but... > > Theres a computer shop next to an auction house... i think its on > railway parade in Maylands or something - they get all the auction stuff > that isn't sold... > > Unfortunately can't remember the name, but they have plenty of second > hand ones and they even give a one month warranty or similar. That's Discount Computers (www.discount.com.au) next to Ross' Auctions. From brad at wasp.net.au Tue Jul 13 14:52:22 2004 From: brad at wasp.net.au (Brad Campbell) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 10:52:22 +0400 Subject: [plug] NX X protocol compression Message-ID: <40F386A6.2070801@wasp.net.au> G'day all, I have an interesting situation where I have to manipulate some large images using Gimp (A job it does quite well). The only machine in the office that runs it well is my laptop, and given it only has 512MB of ram and a 1Ghz P-III, manipulating A0 images at 24bpp and 300dpi with multiple layers is a bit much for it. (An average image appears to be 4-600MB). In that light I decided that this was a job for my home network and duly procured 1.5GB of ram for the desktop machine which is an Athlon 2800+ running diskless off a separate server (2.2TB of Raid-5 for bulk storage and 500GB of Raid-0 for OS/Scratch/Swap over NFS and NBD). The whole setup works quite well. The issue is that home and office are connected via an 802.11 link at 11Mbits. Fine and dandy, so the real world performance is between 350 & 500 KB/s. This makes Gimp over X a bit laggy, and doing things like zooming and panning is a bit of a pain. I tried forwarding over SSH with compression but it only made a marginal improvement. Tried running tightvnc and that was quite a bit better but still really laggy on re-draws. I have tried most of the low bandwidth X proxies in a past life and found them all to be lacking somewhat, so I fired up google and came up with www.nomachine.com. Great, it's payware but based on GPL components and this page "documents" how to get it running bare bones. http://www.nomachine.com/documentation/building-components.php It appears to take X on one side, convert it to RFB (VNC protocol) and then back to X on the other side. It uses lossy compression on images and artifacts can certainly be seen, but it's quick! Over my link it's certainly as fast as a LAN connection. It's not easy to get running, they charge for all the stuff that makes it easy to get running, but the core free stuff works and is really tweakable when you actually figure out how to get it working. The end result is I can now mark up these plans and do what I need to do with 1/10th the level of frustration of trying to do it locally or driving home to do it and I did not need to fork out for another machine in the office. Niiiiice. On another note. I have been investigating building another raid array. 15 250GB drives in hotswap enclosures in a Raid-6 exported as a block device over firewire. This should give about 3TB (Real Terrabytes not base 10) of storage for about 5.7k AUD. Novel idea anyway and with the firewire interface, dead easy to plug into anything. Regards, Brad From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Tue Jul 13 15:07:25 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:07:25 +0800 Subject: Real Terabytes [was: Re: [plug] NX X protocol compression] In-Reply-To: <40F386A6.2070801@wasp.net.au> References: <40F386A6.2070801@wasp.net.au> Message-ID: <20040713070725.GA10897@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <40F386A6.2070801 at wasp.net.au> on Tue, Jul 13, 2004 at 10:52:22AM +0400, Brad Campbell wrote: > This should give about 3TB (Real Terrabytes not base 10) If you mean to use a prefix for binary multiples, 'tebi' is the one to use. 3TiB is unequivocally equal to 3*1024*1024*1024*1024 bytes[1] and would be pronounced "three tebibytes". (Tebi is the prefix meaning 2^40 without any confusion with 10^12.) The odd thing about that -bi- system is that seems to use KiB instead of the more-analogous kiB. (I deliberately /didn't/ correct Terrabytes to Terabytes in the quotation, because terrabytes would appear to be the superior spelling if it weren't for the Greek etymology.) [1] Unless I'm off by a factor of a thousand again :-) From John.Usher at perth.maptek.com.au Tue Jul 13 16:15:07 2004 From: John.Usher at perth.maptek.com.au (John Usher (Maptek)) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 16:15:07 +0800 Subject: [plug] NX X protocol compression Message-ID: <20E0F651F8B82F45ABCBACC58A2D995B56452F@mexper1> >I have tried most of the low bandwidth X proxies in a past life and found them >all to be lacking >somewhat, so I fired up google and came up with www.nomachine.com. >Great, it's payware but based on GPL components and this page "documents" how to >get it running bare >bones. >http://www.nomachine.com/documentation/building-components.php Take a look at freeNX: http://www.kalyxo.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/NoMachineNX and the slashdot article about knoppix and freeNX: http://slashdot.org/articles/04/06/24/1310243.shtml?tid=185&tid=189&tid=90 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.usher at perth.maptek.com.au Tue Jul 13 16:34:25 2004 From: john.usher at perth.maptek.com.au (John Usher) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 16:34:25 +0800 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [plug] NX X protocol compression] Message-ID: <40F39E91.8030704@perth.maptek.com.au> Second non-outlook attempt at a text only email: >I have tried most of the low bandwidth X proxies in a past life and found them >all to be lacking >somewhat, so I fired up google and came up with www.nomachine.com. >Great, it's payware but based on GPL components and this page "documents" how to >get it running bare >bones. >http://www.nomachine.com/documentation/building-components.php Take a look at freeNX: http://www.kalyxo.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/NoMachineNX and the slashdot article about knoppix and freeNX: http://slashdot.org/articles/04/06/24/1310243.shtml?tid=185&tid=189&tid=90 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Tue Jul 13 16:58:40 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 16:58:40 +0800 Subject: [plug] Nasty windows viruses (somewhat on topic, really!) In-Reply-To: <20040713050217.GA8165@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <20040713042756.GF7515@cp.yi.org> <20040713050217.GA8165@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <20040713085840.GB15120@cp.yi.org> James Devenish wrote: > > So what I really want to know is, how can I find out what files it was > > poking around in and for how long it's been going on > > If that is not possible, you might at least able to use `find` and its > -atime option to see if any pre-existing files have been unexpectedly > accessed. *sigh* I have /home mounted with noatime on my desktop, I suppose I can at least check mtimes (which is what concerns me more). Nothing too suspicious seems to have been modified there, thankfully. > > Utterly unrelated question while I'm here: is there a flag to rm to > > tell it to remove files from directories chmod'ed read-only? > > Something like 'rm -rf --try-harder'... > > Would it be feasible for you to use `chmod -R` or `find` to do a "+x" > before using rm? ("+w" too, surely) I'm using chmod -R now, was just curious if there was a cleaner way. Cameron. From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Tue Jul 13 17:03:22 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 17:03:22 +0800 Subject: [plug] Nasty windows viruses (somewhat on topic, really!) In-Reply-To: <1089696833.3181.68.camel@sarge.int.linuxit.com.au> References: <20040713042756.GF7515@cp.yi.org> <1089696833.3181.68.camel@sarge.int.linuxit.com.au> Message-ID: <20040713090322.GC15120@cp.yi.org> Scott Middleton wrote: > > > > So what I really want to know is, how can I find out what files it was > > poking around in and for how long it's been going on (presumably by > > looking at Samba logs, but I can't find anything equivalent to ftpd's > > xferlog or apache's access.log)? > > > > > Excerpt from my samba.conf file > log level = 3 > syslog = 0 > log file = /var/log/samba/log.%m > max log size = 1000 Ahh, I don't seem "log level = 3" in mine and have only logs of what machine connected to what services in the logs you mentioned. Fortunately the machine seems to have been "only" infected since yesterday. > For me it depends on what FS is used. If it is FAT then i remove the HDD > and mount on a linux system using my USB 2.0 Caddy and scan using > UVSCAN. If it is NTFS I use BartPE which is a Windows LiveCD with NTFS > write support. BartPE has support for mcafee as well. OK its not really > Linux but it works really well and is easy to use. It's NTFS. I'll give BartPE a shot. > Look for shared directories and copy itself to them. It is not uncommon > for people to share their entire C drive. Put itself into random files > that may be executed by another user. So on. Urgh. Yuck. I have a whole bunch of Windows executables in one share that's writable without a password, will check over that... Cameron. From brad at wasp.net.au Tue Jul 13 18:24:15 2004 From: brad at wasp.net.au (Brad Campbell) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 14:24:15 +0400 Subject: [plug] Value nostalgia Message-ID: <40F3B84F.9050907@wasp.net.au> Very scary. I just paid less for a GB of Ram than I paid for my first 1GB Hard disk. I would guess there is about an 8 year gap in there. Does that mean in 8 years time I'm going to get 250GB of ram for about the current price of a 250GB hard disk? (Which is about the price of 1GB of ram at the moment) From garbuck at westnet.com.au Tue Jul 13 18:43:46 2004 From: garbuck at westnet.com.au (Garry) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 18:43:46 +0800 Subject: [plug] Value nostalgia In-Reply-To: <40F3B84F.9050907@wasp.net.au> References: <40F3B84F.9050907@wasp.net.au> Message-ID: <40F3BCE2.1000500@westnet.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 | Does that mean in 8 years time I'm going to get 250GB of ram for about | the current price of a 250GB hard disk? (Which is about the price of 1GB | of ram at the moment) Could this be this birth of Campbell's Law? ;^)== Garry - -- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFA87zivdH9DANniC8RAsXfAJ9ekIrkC7YLrPEyggjeBYi8DJaOtQCfV0T+ OrmoHfRfqW3PzF3kPImaqlA= =7AS3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From caston at arach.net.au Tue Jul 13 18:57:34 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 18:57:34 +0800 Subject: [plug] Value nostalgia In-Reply-To: <40F3B84F.9050907@wasp.net.au> References: <40F3B84F.9050907@wasp.net.au> Message-ID: <1089716253.2911.2.camel@localhost> On Tue, 2004-07-13 at 18:24, Brad Campbell wrote: > Very scary. > > I just paid less for a GB of Ram than I paid for my first 1GB Hard disk. > I would guess there is about an 8 year gap in there. > > Does that mean in 8 years time I'm going to get 250GB of ram for about the current price of a 250GB > hard disk? (Which is about the price of 1GB of ram at the moment) > After the market stabilises and is able to provide for the memory demand created by Longhorn. Yes. Now is that ram solid or volatile? > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -- Chris Caston Aptitude Technology Office: 1300 722 146 Mobile: 0422 978 315 "Ultimately religion and science will be reconciled" -Jon E. Trevathan From bernard at blackham.com.au Wed Jul 14 00:00:12 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 00:00:12 +0800 Subject: Recordings of PLUG talks - Was: Re: [plug] ** July PLUG Seminar Notice ** In-Reply-To: <200407131046.43629.sboak@westnet.com.au> References: <20040712041121.GR2482@blackham.com.au> <200407122016.07236.sboak@westnet.com.au> <20040712163241.GD2482@blackham.com.au> <200407131046.43629.sboak@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <20040713160012.GH2482@blackham.com.au> On Tue, Jul 13, 2004 at 10:46:43AM +0800, Steve Boak wrote: > On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 12:32 am, Bernard Blackham wrote: > > > > > > Or a webcast (audio only would do) for us distance-challenged people? > > > > So long as it doesn't have to be live :) > [...] > > Bernard. > > That'll do for me :-) > > By the way if this talk makes it up on the web, are there any recordings of > past talks that could also be made available? There are no recordings of past talks, sorry :( It's something I'll definitely look into for future talks, I promise. (I said this several months ago, too :) We started recording tonight's talk, but unfortunately the laptop recording fell asleep less than 5 minutes in :( Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From bernard at blackham.com.au Wed Jul 14 00:03:50 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 00:03:50 +0800 Subject: [plug] ** July PLUG Seminar Notice ** In-Reply-To: <20040712041121.GR2482@blackham.com.au> References: <20040712041121.GR2482@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: <20040713160350.GI2482@blackham.com.au> On Mon, Jul 12, 2004 at 12:11:22PM +0800, Bernard Blackham wrote: > Title: Laptops, Linux and Life. Slides are up at http://plug.linux.org.au/events/seminar/2004-07 Thanks for all that turned up, and those that would have :) Unfortunately, the machine recording the audio suspended itself about 5 minutes in. :( Best wishes, Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From sboak at westnet.com.au Wed Jul 14 00:19:38 2004 From: sboak at westnet.com.au (Steve Boak) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 00:19:38 +0800 Subject: Recordings of PLUG talks - Was: Re: [plug] ** July PLUG Seminar Notice ** In-Reply-To: <20040713160012.GH2482@blackham.com.au> References: <20040712041121.GR2482@blackham.com.au> <200407131046.43629.sboak@westnet.com.au> <20040713160012.GH2482@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: <200407140019.38745.sboak@westnet.com.au> On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:00 am, Bernard Blackham wrote: > We started recording tonight's talk, but unfortunately the laptop > recording fell asleep less than 5 minutes in :( Murphy strikes again... I seem to remember there was a reliable old analog device for recording sound? Steve -- "Most men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and continue on as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill From bernard at blackham.com.au Wed Jul 14 00:28:02 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 00:28:02 +0800 Subject: Recordings of PLUG talks - Was: Re: [plug] ** July PLUG Seminar Notice ** In-Reply-To: <200407140019.38745.sboak@westnet.com.au> References: <20040712041121.GR2482@blackham.com.au> <200407131046.43629.sboak@westnet.com.au> <20040713160012.GH2482@blackham.com.au> <200407140019.38745.sboak@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <20040713162802.GK2482@blackham.com.au> On Wed, Jul 14, 2004 at 12:19:38AM +0800, Steve Boak wrote: > On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:00 am, Bernard Blackham wrote: > > > We started recording tonight's talk, but unfortunately the laptop > > recording fell asleep less than 5 minutes in :( > > Murphy strikes again... > > I seem to remember there was a reliable old analog device for > recording sound? And snail mail heavy magnetic rolls encased in harmful plastic to "The M-BONE"? :) Didn't have access to any recording equipment. I had intended to just plug their audio out into my laptop (I'd seen the output line in the past). But they've updated to a new fancy lecturn that's controlled by a lil' colour LCD touchscreen. Unfortunately, it also meant that all the interesting plugs were locked away. Will enquire for next time. Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From myk at westnet.com.au Wed Jul 14 09:16:21 2004 From: myk at westnet.com.au (Michael Holland) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:16:21 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] AT PSU In-Reply-To: <40F37925.4070800@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <200407131143.16807@death.2.spammers> <1089691451.3181.19.camel@sarge.int.linuxit.com.au> <200407131219.20980@death.2.spammers> <40F37925.4070800@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Jul 2004, Craig Ringer wrote: > Bernd Felsche wrote: > > > ATX PSU with adaptor would be a solution if the mounting holes > > weren't different. > > Heh. I've seen one machine with an "interesting" solution to that that > involved a file and some glue. *shudders* There's no rule that says the PSU has to be flush with the back of the AT case, or even _inside_ the case. Duct tape can be very useful. -- Reading this .sig? So are your customers. From quadfour at iinet.net.au Wed Jul 14 10:12:12 2004 From: quadfour at iinet.net.au (Michael) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 10:12:12 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Value nostalgia In-Reply-To: <1089716253.2911.2.camel@localhost> References: <40F3B84F.9050907@wasp.net.au> <1089716253.2911.2.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Jul 2004, Chris Caston wrote: > > On Tue, 2004-07-13 at 18:24, Brad Campbell wrote: > > Very scary. > > > > I just paid less for a GB of Ram than I paid for my first 1GB Hard disk. > > I would guess there is about an 8 year gap in there. > > > > Does that mean in 8 years time I'm going to get 250GB of ram for about the current price of a 250GB > > hard disk? (Which is about the price of 1GB of ram at the moment) > > > > After the market stabilises and is able to provide for the memory demand > created by Longhorn. Yes. > > Now is that ram solid or volatile? Would be good to see more NVRAM around. Whole operating systems installed in RAM! :D Regards Michael Collard From myk at westnet.com.au Wed Jul 14 10:31:27 2004 From: myk at westnet.com.au (Michael Holland) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 10:31:27 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Nasty windows viruses (somewhat on topic, really!) In-Reply-To: <20040713042756.GF7515@cp.yi.org> References: <20040713042756.GF7515@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: You could make an expendable copy of part of a windows partition, and "share" it. The trojan might be looking at the \windows or "Documents and Settings". Raise the log/debug level. You couldn't expect it to normally log every action. Then let the trojan loose, and compare data to the original later, as well as atimes. I'd guess SMB can reset mtime on modified files, but not atime? Also watch the firewall for possible attempts to send data home. -- From quadfour at iinet.net.au Wed Jul 14 11:47:17 2004 From: quadfour at iinet.net.au (Michael) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 11:47:17 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] AT PSU In-Reply-To: References: <200407131143.16807@death.2.spammers> <1089691451.3181.19.camel@sarge.int.linuxit.com.au> <200407131219.20980@death.2.spammers> <40F37925.4070800@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Jul 2004, Michael Holland wrote: > > On Tue, 13 Jul 2004, Craig Ringer wrote: > > > Bernd Felsche wrote: > > > > > ATX PSU with adaptor would be a solution if the mounting holes > > > weren't different. > > > > Heh. I've seen one machine with an "interesting" solution to that that > > involved a file and some glue. *shudders* > > There's no rule that says the PSU has to be flush with the back of the > AT case, or even _inside_ the case. Duct tape can be very useful. What about modding an ATX PSU? I'm sure I've seen converter plug things for the main socket, and the power switch can be bodged up :) Regards Michael Collard From mtearle at tearle.com Mon Jul 12 14:53:16 2004 From: mtearle at tearle.com (Mark Tearle) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 14:53:16 +0800 Subject: [plug] Revolution OS movie? In-Reply-To: <1089599586.2048.0.camel@localhost> References: <1089554752.20692.9.camel@natalie> <4b3125cc040711190767dce37e@mail.gmail.com> <1089599586.2048.0.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1089615196.6662.87.camel@phregia.ucs.uwa.edu.au> On Mon, 2004-07-12 at 10:33, Chris Caston wrote: > On Mon, 2004-07-12 at 10:07, Jeffrey Lim wrote: > > On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 09:20:22 +0800 (WST), Michael Holland > > wrote: > > >I'm sure you can take snippets without trouble. > > > > yeah - or show snippets of it (by playing from the original dvd - > > instead of clipping it out), so long as the snippets are not > > distributed. I'm sure the guys will appreciate the publicity. ;) > > > > I just hope that it is an original. > > :) > > heck u could even take orders for the actual dvd after the > > installfest, or viewing... > > > > -jf I do have Linux Australia's copy of the Revolution OS on VHS; we could organise a showing if need be. Mark -- Mark Tearle - treasurer at linux.org.au - fax: +61 2 8211 5211 Linux Australia Inc. - ABN 56 987 117 479 GPO Box 4788, Sydney NSW 2001, Australia From Jeremy at Malcolm.id.au Wed Jul 14 13:04:13 2004 From: Jeremy at Malcolm.id.au (Jeremy Malcolm) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:04:13 +0800 Subject: [plug] Open Source stream at Comm IT conference Message-ID: <1089781449.487261@irc.terminus.net.au> The WA Open Source Technology Showcase (OSTS) is now part of the upcoming Comm-IT 2004 Expo & Conference. The OSTS was to be held in or around October of this year so is being brought forward to coincide with Comm-IT. There's a call for papers, which I'm pasting below. --- begins --- Call for Papers COMM IT 2004 Expo and Conference Incorporating OpenSource WA Technology Showcase 17 September 2004 Perth Convention Centre ATUG and the ITEE WA Panel, Engineers Australia invite submissions for OpenSource Papers at the Comm-IT 2004 Conference to be held in Perth. The conference will provide a one day forum to exchange ideas, techniques, discuss best practices and applications using OpenSource Applications. The OpenSource Stream will be in addition to the original four streams to cover the "hot topics" of interest to the ICT industry in WA: Industry, Academia and Government are invited to submit original technical submissions that address new concepts, best practices and successful case studies about OpenSource Software. A selection committee from Engineers Australia and ATUG, ACS and WAIA will review the submissions. Important Dates. Final date for Submissions 27 July 2004 Notification Date 30 July 2004 Final Paper and Slides 27 August 2004 Conference 17 September 2004 A 150 - 200 word synopsis of the paper is to be submitted for review by 27 July. A complete electronic copy of the paper is to be submitted by the 27 August, for publication in the conference journal. All submissions are to specify the presenter(s) of the paper, the author(s) and organisation. Submissions may be made to:- email: FThorniley at engineersaustralia.org.au or Fax 08 9481 4332 --- ends --- -- JEREMY MALCOLM Personal: http://www.malcolm.id.au Providing online networks of Australian lawyers (http://www.ilaw.com.au) and Linux experts (http://www.linuxconsultants.com.au) for instant help! Disclaimer: http://www.terminus.net.au/disclaimer.html. GPG key: finger. From Milan.Pospisil at swantafe.wa.edu.au Wed Jul 14 13:25:02 2004 From: Milan.Pospisil at swantafe.wa.edu.au (Milan Pospisil) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:25:02 +0800 Subject: [plug] AT PSU Message-ID: >>> quadfour at iinet.net.au 07/14/04 11:47am >>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2004, Michael Holland wrote: > > On Tue, 13 Jul 2004, Craig Ringer wrote: > > > Bernd Felsche wrote: > > > > > ATX PSU with adaptor would be a solution if the mounting holes > > > weren't different. > > > > Heh. I've seen one machine with an "interesting" solution to that that > > involved a file and some glue. *shudders* > > There's no rule that says the PSU has to be flush with the back of the > AT case, or even _inside_ the case. Duct tape can be very useful. >What about modding an ATX PSU? I'm sure I've seen converter plug things >for the main socket, and the power switch can be bodged up :) >Regards >Michael Collard Hi Folks, I have got in front of me an old 286 chassis and an ATX power supply and the four holes in the back of the ATX PS match the holes in the AT computer case quite OK. And the cut out for the fan and the power plug and socket is also OK. This provides for four mounting points, which IMHO, should be enough. However, the ATX PS does not have any mounting holes through its sides as the old AT would have. These are generic garden variety power supplies and chassis; when it comes to something unusual like Acer or HP that would be probably a different story. Regards Milan Pospisil _______________________________________________ PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From senectus at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 14:46:04 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:46:04 +0800 Subject: [plug] Revolution OS movie? In-Reply-To: <1089615196.6662.87.camel@phregia.ucs.uwa.edu.au> References: <1089554752.20692.9.camel@natalie> <4b3125cc040711190767dce37e@mail.gmail.com> <1089599586.2048.0.camel@localhost> <1089615196.6662.87.camel@phregia.ucs.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: That would be cool.. and a bit distracting.. :-) > > I do have Linux Australia's copy of the Revolution OS on VHS; we could > organise a showing if need be. > > Mark > -- > Mark Tearle - treasurer at linux.org.au - fax: +61 2 8211 5211 > > Linux Australia Inc. - ABN 56 987 117 479 > GPO Box 4788, Sydney NSW 2001, Australia -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From jfs.world at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 14:58:28 2004 From: jfs.world at gmail.com (Jeffrey Lim) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:58:28 +0800 Subject: [plug] Revolution OS movie? In-Reply-To: References: <1089554752.20692.9.camel@natalie> <4b3125cc040711190767dce37e@mail.gmail.com> <1089599586.2048.0.camel@localhost> <1089615196.6662.87.camel@phregia.ucs.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <4b3125cc04071323581a36df6f@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:46:04 +0800, Senectus . wrote: > That would be cool.. and a bit distracting.. :-) > rewind..., forward..., rewind..., forward... :P -jf From somewhereintime at airpost.net Wed Jul 14 16:23:43 2004 From: somewhereintime at airpost.net (somewhereintime) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 16:23:43 +0800 Subject: [plug] Revolution OS movie? In-Reply-To: <4b3125cc04071323581a36df6f@mail.gmail.com> References: <1089554752.20692.9.camel@natalie> <4b3125cc040711190767dce37e@mail.gmail.com> <1089599586.2048.0.camel@localhost> <1089615196.6662.87.camel@phregia.ucs.uwa.edu.au> <4b3125cc04071323581a36df6f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1089793423.9555.200326976@webmail.messagingengine.com> I have it on cd.... On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:58:28 +0800, "Jeffrey Lim" said: > On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:46:04 +0800, Senectus . > wrote: > > That would be cool.. and a bit distracting.. :-) > > > > rewind..., forward..., rewind..., forward... :P > > -jf > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -- somewhereintime somewhereintime at airpost.net From ahewitt at globaldial.com Wed Jul 14 16:28:46 2004 From: ahewitt at globaldial.com (Adam Hewitt) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 16:28:46 +0800 Subject: [plug] Ximian Desktop 2 and Excel A531 Transmeta laptop Message-ID: Hi All, I have two questions... Firstly has anyone tried the Ximian Desktop 2 backport for woody available on www.apt-get.org?? As it is not supported under debian I am keen to see how it runs. Secondly has anyone heard anything about the Excel A531 Transmeta laptop in regards to both the hardware and how it runs linux? I can't imagine that the transmeta CPU's would be very quick, but as Linus works (or worked) for Transmeta I would imagine that linux should be ok. Cheers, Adam. From darts at dialix.com.au Wed Jul 14 17:31:15 2004 From: darts at dialix.com.au (Dave Dartnall) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:31:15 +0800 Subject: [Plug] Mysql installation Message-ID: <200407141731.15960.darts@dialix.com.au> Thanks to Jim Householder, William Kenworthy and Mark O'Shea for trying to help with my Mysql installation - but I still haven't got it. The fact that the docs don't match the reality and I don't know what the bloody hell I'm doing has a lot to do with it no doubt. So now after three reinstallations (thanks for the tip about removing the mysql directories) - (Mdk10 by the way doesn't like three removals and reinstallations of the same programme, I had to update Mdk10 after the third) - I'm back where I started.still trying to get access. Just thought you'd like to know - I'll advise further when and if I can get it sorted out. regards Dave Dartnall From harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au Wed Jul 14 17:27:27 2004 From: harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au (Harry) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:27:27 +0800 Subject: More [was: Re: [plug] Installfest flyers - Please Distribute!] In-Reply-To: <20040712101819.GZ2482@blackham.com.au> References: <20040706012943.GL4062@blackham.com.au> <20040712100614.GX2482@blackham.com.au> <20040712101500.GY7515@cp.yi.org> <20040712101819.GZ2482@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: <20040714172727.29336d78.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> Ok, Ada Computers, pcLinx, UpnAway in South Perth (plus our two OpenLate grocers in SP a couple of days ago using CP's flyers with the ink still drying) Arrow Computers in Como Delta Computer and OmniVision Computers in Mt Pleasant BroadBand.Net just nearby. (these are wireless dudes but I had one flyer left .. :-) It's been kinda fun. Reactions ranged from gleam of enthusiasm to "maybe our tech. guy will be interested" (which could be polite-speak for go-away-i-think-you-are-a-geek). So any other flyer distrubution stories ? :) btw Bernard/Cameron I printed off my own. Forgot to grab some at last nights meeting. Doh! cu Harry -- Are you a computer angel? http://www.computerangels.org.au/ From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Wed Jul 14 17:33:31 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:33:31 +0800 Subject: More [was: Re: [plug] Installfest flyers - Please Distribute!] In-Reply-To: <20040714172727.29336d78.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> References: <20040706012943.GL4062@blackham.com.au> <20040712100614.GX2482@blackham.com.au> <20040712101500.GY7515@cp.yi.org> <20040712101819.GZ2482@blackham.com.au> <20040714172727.29336d78.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> Message-ID: <20040714093331.GB862@cp.yi.org> Harry wrote: > It's been kinda fun. Reactions ranged from gleam of enthusiasm to "maybe our tech. > guy will be interested" (which could be polite-speak for > go-away-i-think-you-are-a-geek). Cool. Thanks Harry! > btw Bernard/Cameron I printed off my own. Forgot to grab some > at last nights meeting. Doh! Bernard/Cameron? Possibly even worse than JamCam :-P Ryan and I tested your ethernet cards today, they all worked. Thanks again. Cameron. From harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au Wed Jul 14 18:18:29 2004 From: harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au (Harry) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:18:29 +0800 Subject: More [was: Re: [plug] Installfest flyers - Please Distribute!] In-Reply-To: <20040714093331.GB862@cp.yi.org> References: <20040706012943.GL4062@blackham.com.au> <20040712100614.GX2482@blackham.com.au> <20040712101500.GY7515@cp.yi.org> <20040712101819.GZ2482@blackham.com.au> <20040714172727.29336d78.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> <20040714093331.GB862@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <20040714181829.54b3f9dd.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:33:31 +0800 Cameron Patrick wrote: > Bernard/Cameron? Possibly even worse than JamCam :-P Only if you comment on my spulling .. :o) > Ryan and I tested your ethernet cards today, they all worked. Thanks again. Rightio. Well I can wield a screwdriver to fit and remove boards up until around 1 pm. Then I have to zoom away for another engagement. Can someone volunteer to be "The NIC Guy" for 1pm till close (and look after the Computer Angels NICs) ? They're nice 10/100 cards so I'm wanting to limit breakage and total loss. Ryan and I discussed the likelyhood that some cases will have snap out card bay blanks so we'll need screws (M3's and UNC) and blanking plates so tender types don't do the post-install "Wah!! You broke my 'puter. Now it has a hole." .. sort of thing. These are the Winders first timers I'm talking about of course :-P I can bring some blanks/screws but maybe other ppl can too. cu Harry -- Are you a computer angel? http://www.computerangels.org.au/ From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Wed Jul 14 18:40:38 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:40:38 +0800 Subject: More [was: Re: [plug] Installfest flyers - Please Distribute!] In-Reply-To: <20040714181829.54b3f9dd.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> References: <20040706012943.GL4062@blackham.com.au> <20040712100614.GX2482@blackham.com.au> <20040712101500.GY7515@cp.yi.org> <20040712101819.GZ2482@blackham.com.au> <20040714172727.29336d78.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> <20040714093331.GB862@cp.yi.org> <20040714181829.54b3f9dd.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> Message-ID: <20040714104038.GD862@cp.yi.org> Harry wrote: > > Bernard/Cameron? Possibly even worse than JamCam :-P > Only if you comment on my sp[e]lling .. :o) Wouldn't dream of it ;-) > I can bring some blanks/screws but maybe other ppl can too. I'll see what I can do. I know I have quite a few blanks but unfortunately most are nicy shiny aluminium ones that I don't want to see walk home in someone else's machine. Cameron. From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Wed Jul 14 18:46:24 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:46:24 +0800 Subject: [plug] NFS mount giving "invalid argument" error Message-ID: <20040714104624.GE862@cp.yi.org> Hi, I recently changed the /etc/exports on my server at home and now I can't access one of the NFS mounts. When I give an "/etc/init.d/nfs-kernel-server reload" then I see an error: Re-exporting directories for NFS kernel daemon... 10.0.1.101:/archive/mirrors: Invalid argument erdos.home:/archive/mirrors: Invalid argument done. And now I can't mount /archive/mirrors. There is no 10.0.1.101 on the network. (Rather there is, but it's switched off.) The appropriate line in my /etc/exports is: /archive/mirrors *(async,ro,root_squash) 10.0.1.2(async,rw,root_squash) I have several lines which are identical bar the directory being mounted, and they work. There's no diagnostics in syslog that I can see, either. Tried rebooting the server to no avail. Any NFS gurus on the list? Cameron. From scott at LinuxIT.com.au Wed Jul 14 19:16:22 2004 From: scott at LinuxIT.com.au (Scott Middleton) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 19:16:22 +0800 Subject: More [was: Re: [plug] Installfest flyers - Please Distribute!] In-Reply-To: <20040714104038.GD862@cp.yi.org> References: <20040706012943.GL4062@blackham.com.au> <20040712100614.GX2482@blackham.com.au> <20040712101500.GY7515@cp.yi.org> <20040712101819.GZ2482@blackham.com.au> <20040714172727.29336d78.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> <20040714093331.GB862@cp.yi.org> <20040714181829.54b3f9dd.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> <20040714104038.GD862@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <1089803782.2150.14.camel@virgo.srgw.linuxit.com.au.201.168.192.in-addr.arpa> On Wed, 2004-07-14 at 18:40, Cameron Patrick wrote: > Harry wrote: > Wouldn't dream of it ;-) > > > I can bring some blanks/screws but maybe other ppl can too. > > I'll see what I can do. I know I have quite a few blanks but > unfortunately most are nicy shiny aluminium ones that I don't want to > see walk home in someone else's machine. > We can bring an awful lot if needed. We have screws and blankers in abundance. The problem is remembering to bring them. If someone pops by we can supply anything that is in our workshop. What we are bringing: 50 x Knoppix 3.4 CDs for giving away. We can make more if people think it is needed. 100 odd CDs of others (Gentoo, Mandrake, Fedora, Debian) for sale at a cheap price :) If people think there is a need we can supply CDs of sarge (13 CDs i386) or even sid. 2.4Ghz server with full Debian Mirror, 120 GB of Linux ISOs. Gb NIC 18 port 10/100 switch. We were going to borrow a 5 port Gb Switch but it doesn't seem to be needed now. The Server has 1 PATA Port available also with 2 52X burners if CDs are needed. USB 2.0 HDD Caddy. DVD burner. Let me know if we can bring anything else. Kind Regards -- Scott Middleton From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Wed Jul 14 19:29:27 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 19:29:27 +0800 Subject: [plug] NFS mount giving "invalid argument" error In-Reply-To: <20040714104624.GE862@cp.yi.org> References: <20040714104624.GE862@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <20040714112927.GA16493@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <20040714104624.GE862 at cp.yi.org> on Wed, Jul 14, 2004 at 06:46:24PM +0800, Cameron Patrick wrote: > I recently changed the /etc/exports on my server at home and now I > can't access one of the NFS mounts. When I give an > "/etc/init.d/nfs-kernel-server reload" then I see an error: This doesn't ring a bell for me: I usually don't retain any knowledge of NFS, I just look at the man page that lists all the errors and gives suggestions. However, I can't seem to find any such man page at the moment :-P - what is the output of `showmount` and `showmount -e` on the server? - what if you "stop", then "start" ther server rather than "reload"? - what are the mount options on erdos.home? From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Wed Jul 14 19:42:13 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 19:42:13 +0800 Subject: [plug] NFS mount giving "invalid argument" error In-Reply-To: <20040714112927.GA16493@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <20040714104624.GE862@cp.yi.org> <20040714112927.GA16493@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <20040714114213.GF862@cp.yi.org> James Devenish wrote: > > I recently changed the /etc/exports on my server at home and now I > > can't access one of the NFS mounts. When I give an > > "/etc/init.d/nfs-kernel-server reload" then I see an error: > > This doesn't ring a bell for me: I usually don't retain any knowledge of > NFS, I just look at the man page that lists all the errors and gives > suggestions. However, I can't seem to find any such man page at the > moment :-P Yeah, I looked at the man page for 'exports' and 'exportfs' and remained unenlightened. > - what is the output of `showmount` and `showmount -e` on the server? Aha, hadn't heard of that one before. # showmount Hosts on euclid: 10.0.1.101 10.0.1.103 10.0.1.85 10.0.1.87 10.0.1.89 10.0.1.9 erdos.home harry.home merlin.home pythagoras.home socrates.home (Odd... the only one of these that is currently mounting anything from this server is erdos. 'showmount -a' lists erdos as having /archive/mirrors mounted even though it isn't, and refuses to mount. Perhaps I need a way of resetting the server's idea of what clients are connected to it?) # showmount -e Export list for euclid: [...snip irrelevant entries...] /archive/mirrors/suse * /archive/mirrors/gentoo * /archive/mirrors/sysresc * /archive/mirrors/knoppix * /archive/mirrors/mandrake * /archive/mirrors (everyone) > - what if you "stop", then "start" ther server rather than "reload"? Precisely the same (I tried that earlier, forgot to mention it). > - what are the mount options on erdos.home? euclid:/archive/mirrors /archive/mirrors nfs ro 0 0 Cameron. From billk at iinet.net.au Wed Jul 14 20:13:31 2004 From: billk at iinet.net.au (William Kenworthy) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 20:13:31 +0800 Subject: [Plug] Mysql installation In-Reply-To: <200407141731.15960.darts@dialix.com.au> References: <200407141731.15960.darts@dialix.com.au> Message-ID: <1089807211.5221.8.camel@rattus.Localdomain> I cant remember if you mentioned it - but have you checked the mysql logs? On gentoo they are in /var/log/mysql, not sure 'bout Mandrake. rattus root # ls -al /var/log/mysql/ total 1077989 drwxr-xr-x 2 mysql mysql 112 Mar 20 12:46 . drwxr-xr-x 21 root root 1256 Jul 14 07:03 .. -rw-rw---- 1 mysql mysql 52836 Jul 14 07:03 mysql.err -rw-rw---- 1 mysql mysql 1102726729 Jul 14 20:10 mysql.log (hmmm, I may need to check logrotate ...) There is also a /etc/mysql directory with some config files - did you remove them too? rattus root # ls -al /etc/mysql total 15 drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 104 Dec 22 2003 . drwxr-xr-x 112 root root 7256 Jul 14 07:03 .. -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1229 May 23 10:03 my.cnf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1702 May 23 10:03 mysqlaccess.conf lastly, how are you starting the daemon? BillK On Wed, 2004-07-14 at 17:31, Dave Dartnall wrote: > Thanks to Jim Householder, William Kenworthy and Mark O'Shea for trying to > help with my Mysql installation - but I still haven't got it. The fact that > the docs don't match the reality and I don't know what the bloody hell I'm > doing has a lot to do with it no doubt. > So now after three reinstallations (thanks for the tip about removing the > mysql directories) - (Mdk10 by the way doesn't like three removals and > reinstallations of the same programme, I had to update Mdk10 after the third) > - I'm back where I started.still trying to get access. > Just thought you'd like to know - I'll advise further when and if I can get it > sorted out. > > regards > Dave Dartnall > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From sboak at westnet.com.au Wed Jul 14 20:34:42 2004 From: sboak at westnet.com.au (Steve Boak) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 20:34:42 +0800 Subject: [plug] Rodents and blanking plates Message-ID: <200407142034.42723.sboak@westnet.com.au> On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 06:18 pm, Harry wrote: [...] > Ryan and I discussed the likelyhood that some cases will have snap out > card bay blanks so we'll need screws (M3's and UNC) and blanking > plates so tender types don't do the post-install > "Wah!! You broke my 'puter. Now it has a hole." .. sort of thing. > These are the Winders first timers I'm talking about of course :-P [...] > Harry Most important those blanking plates - I'm just about to start cleaning up a computer which has unknowingly also been the home of one or more mice (and I'm not talking about the pointing type :) They seem to like the dark, warm internals, but mouse piddle plays havoc with the circuits... This is not the first computer I have had to repair for this reason, so now I make sure all the 'mouse-house' entry points are covered. Steve -- "Most men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and continue on as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Wed Jul 14 20:48:00 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 20:48:00 +0800 Subject: [plug] Rodents and blanking plates In-Reply-To: <200407142034.42723.sboak@westnet.com.au> References: <200407142034.42723.sboak@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <20040714124800.GA17694@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <200407142034.42723.sboak at westnet.com.au> on Wed, Jul 14, 2004 at 08:34:42PM +0800, Steve Boak wrote: > I'm just about to start cleaning up a computer which has unknowingly > also been the home of one or more mice (and I'm not talking about the > pointing type :) They seem to like the dark, warm internals, but mouse > piddle plays havoc with the circuits... What on earth do they eat? Bugs? And I don't even want to know what happens when their sh** hits the fan! From sboak at westnet.com.au Wed Jul 14 21:08:54 2004 From: sboak at westnet.com.au (Steve Boak) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 21:08:54 +0800 Subject: [plug] Rodents and blanking plates In-Reply-To: <20040714124800.GA17694@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <200407142034.42723.sboak@westnet.com.au> <20040714124800.GA17694@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <200407142108.54114.sboak@westnet.com.au> On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 08:48 pm, James Devenish wrote: > In message <200407142034.42723.sboak at westnet.com.au> > > on Wed, Jul 14, 2004 at 08:34:42PM +0800, Steve Boak wrote: > > I'm just about to start cleaning up a computer which has unknowingly > > also been the home of one or more mice (and I'm not talking about the > > pointing type :) They seem to like the dark, warm internals, but mouse > > piddle plays havoc with the circuits... > > What on earth do they eat? Bugs? And I don't even want to know what > happens when their sh** hits the fan! Well, there's not much food, but it's what is left behind that's the problem. And being a horizontal case, fortunately (or unfortunately in my case), it's stuck to the motherboard and never gets to the fan :-) Steve -- "Most men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and continue on as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill From nofixed at westnet.com.au Wed Jul 14 21:09:36 2004 From: nofixed at westnet.com.au (Jim Householder) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 21:09:36 +0800 Subject: [plug] What distro for old laptop? In-Reply-To: References: <40F2CA48.60602@westnet.com.au> <20040713010307.GA13070@wagoonline.com> <20040713011732.GA29105@cp.yi.org> <20040713023650.GD7515@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <40F53090.1020503@westnet.com.au> Thanks for all the comments. I've decided to try debian woody with ratpoison. I will probably try other WMs before I'm done though. Regards Jim BTW, does anyone know where the cute little penguin (that sits in the upper left corner of the screen while debian boots) hides? From senectus at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 21:37:59 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 21:37:59 +0800 Subject: [plug] Figuring out, YaST :-) Message-ID: Does anyone know of a FTP place I can "point YaST" too, that will give me a good choice of software to download? (preferably fast Aussie site) -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From bernard at blackham.com.au Wed Jul 14 21:41:09 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 21:41:09 +0800 Subject: [plug] NFS mount giving "invalid argument" error In-Reply-To: <20040714104624.GE862@cp.yi.org> References: <20040714104624.GE862@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <20040714134109.GR2482@blackham.com.au> On Wed, Jul 14, 2004 at 06:46:24PM +0800, Cameron Patrick wrote: > I recently changed the /etc/exports on my server at home and now I > can't access one of the NFS mounts. When I give an > "/etc/init.d/nfs-kernel-server reload" then I see an error: I've run into numerous quirks with the NFS kernel server, so much so that I've sworn off it for most things. Reboots generally cured things, but userspace NFS server was more than adequate and less painful. I'm not helpful, sorry, but userspace NFS servers are your friend :) Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au Wed Jul 14 22:31:21 2004 From: jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au (Jon Miller) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 22:31:21 +0800 Subject: [plug] Nasty windows viruses (somewhat on topic, really!) Message-ID: If you really suspect a Windows virus, download www.sysinternals.com tdimon and filemon. Run them on the windows PC in question an see what file is running and the port it's using. The file will usually be under C:\windows on W9x or c:\windows\system32 or c:\winnt\system32 on a W2k/Xp PC. In the hkey_local_machine\software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run You will usually find the file, just delete the registry setting and the file on the C:\. Also you may want to d/l a good virus scanner to run the across the disk to see if there are other files infected. Jon Jon L. Miller, MCNE, CNS, ASE Director/Sr Systems Consultant MMT Networks Pty Ltd http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby >>> cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au 12:27:56 pm 13/07/2004 >>> Hi, I recently noticed high CPU usage and network traffic to my desktop at home without any good reason. Tcpdump showed lots of Samba traffic to my brother's machine, and said brother couldn't think of a good reason why. I suspect a Windows virus or trojan or some such, but am at a loss with regards to what to do about it. I've shut down Samba on my machine and the server (because they allow passwordless write access to a lot of stuff that they really really shouldn't -- I will fix this before turning Samba back on) and have removed network access from my brother's machine for now. So what I really want to know is, how can I find out what files it was poking around in and for how long it's been going on (presumably by looking at Samba logs, but I can't find anything equivalent to ftpd's xferlog or apache's access.log)? How can I find out what the infected machine was running? Should I use a Linux-based virus scanner to inspect it off a Linux boot disc? Alternatively, what are good Windows virus scanners? Is there a better of cleaning up any infections than backing up anything important, wiping the whole disc (and installing Linux on there :-P)? What do Windows viruses/trojans do to machines over SMB? Is this machine also likely to have been sending out spam too? Utterly unrelated question while I'm here: is there a flag to rm to tell it to remove files from directories chmod'ed read-only? Something like 'rm -rf --try-harder'... Cheers, Cameron. _______________________________________________ PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From apolglaze at book-keepingnetwork.com.au Wed Jul 14 21:44:08 2004 From: apolglaze at book-keepingnetwork.com.au (Alex Polglaze) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 21:44:08 +0800 Subject: [plug] What distro for old laptop? In-Reply-To: <40F53090.1020503@westnet.com.au> References: <40F2CA48.60602@westnet.com.au> <20040713010307.GA13070@wagoonline.com> <20040713011732.GA29105@cp.yi.org> <20040713023650.GD7515@cp.yi.org> <40F53090.1020503@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <40F538A8.6000205@book-keepingnetwork.com.au> Jim Householder wrote: > Thanks for all the comments. I've decided to try debian woody with > ratpoison. I will probably try other WMs before I'm done though. > Joining two posts, you don't have to go that far! Surely debian woody and and some of the previously mentioned blankers would be cheaper than the rat poison.:-) Probably safer too. Alex From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Wed Jul 14 21:51:26 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 21:51:26 +0800 Subject: [plug] NFS mount giving "invalid argument" error In-Reply-To: <20040714114213.GF862@cp.yi.org> References: <20040714104624.GE862@cp.yi.org> <20040714112927.GA16493@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <20040714114213.GF862@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <20040714135126.GB11625@cp.yi.org> Cameron Patrick wrote: > (Odd... the only one of these that is currently mounting anything from > this server is erdos. 'showmount -a' lists erdos as having > /archive/mirrors mounted even though it isn't, and refuses to mount. > Perhaps I need a way of resetting the server's idea of what clients > are connected to it?) For the archives, the magic commands which do this are: # exportfs -auv # cat /dev/null >/var/lib/nfs/rmtab # exportfs -rv Cameron. From quadfour at iinet.net.au Wed Jul 14 21:56:04 2004 From: quadfour at iinet.net.au (Michael Collard) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 21:56:04 +0800 Subject: [plug] Web space Message-ID: <1089813364.6278.6.camel@natalie> I am after some web space somewhere on the net to host a few video files (different formats) of a promo video I made about linux. This video will get its debut at the Installfest too :) I have made 5 separate copies in OGM, AVI (divx) and MPEG formats and they total about 500Mb. Anyone know anywhere I can get this kinda hosting (maybe even for free[hint hint]) to whack these files after the Installfest? I'd host them myself but I've got a slowish connection (512/128). Regards Michael Collard From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Wed Jul 14 22:04:20 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 22:04:20 +0800 Subject: [plug] Figuring out, YaST :-) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200407142204.20232@death.2.spammers> On Wednesday 14 July 2004 21:37, Senectus . wrote: > Does anyone know of a FTP place I can "point YaST" too, that will give > me a good choice of software to download? > (preferably fast Aussie site) ftp://mirror.aarnet.edu.au:/pub/suse only the 9.1 for i386 architecture is there as downloadable. Patches for earlier versions are in the i386/update sub-tree. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From bernard at blackham.com.au Wed Jul 14 22:07:30 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 22:07:30 +0800 Subject: [plug] Revolution OS movie? In-Reply-To: <1089793423.9555.200326976@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1089554752.20692.9.camel@natalie> <4b3125cc040711190767dce37e@mail.gmail.com> <1089599586.2048.0.camel@localhost> <1089615196.6662.87.camel@phregia.ucs.uwa.edu.au> <4b3125cc04071323581a36df6f@mail.gmail.com> <1089793423.9555.200326976@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20040714140730.GT2482@blackham.com.au> On Wed, Jul 14, 2004 at 04:23:43PM +0800, somewhereintime wrote: > I have it on cd.... Will you be bringing it along? :) Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Wed Jul 14 22:13:55 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 22:13:55 +0800 Subject: [plug] supressing JUST newline echo Message-ID: <40F53FA3.1080405@postnewspapers.com.au> Hi folks I'm running into an interesting problem. I need to read a block of input, terminated with a carriage return (\r, enter key). This is in a Python program, but I doubt that matters. I also need to prevent the CR from resulting in the display of a new line. I need everything else to work though - backspace, CTL-C, etc. In other words, I want a normal buffered read, but to suppress the display of the newline? Is there any way to do this without using a getch() like function and manually handling backspace, CTL-C, etc? 'stty igncr' doesn't do what I want - I need to receive the CR, just not echo it. 'stty -echo' also doesn't do the trick, as with a buffered read there's no way of presenting feedback to the user until the input has finished. 'stty -echonl' does exactly the opposite of what I want - it permits newlines to be displayed even when everything else is being suppressed. So ... is there something obvious all UNIX programmers "just know" that I'm missing here? I haven't needed to do any apps before that need much control over console input, and the experience so far is proving ... frustrating. -- Craig Ringer From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Wed Jul 14 22:24:03 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 22:24:03 +0800 Subject: [plug] supressing JUST newline echo In-Reply-To: <40F53FA3.1080405@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <40F53FA3.1080405@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <40F54203.8050807@postnewspapers.com.au> Craig Ringer wrote: > So ... is there something obvious all UNIX programmers "just know" that > I'm missing here? I figured it out as soon as I posted, of course. Accept the newline printing, then output a terminal control sequence to move the cursor back up a line. *sigh* *grumble* Why do we still use this interface? *grumble* (I do realise the advantages, it just remains frustrating and somewhat painful.). -- Craig Ringer From somewhereintime at airpost.net Wed Jul 14 22:22:55 2004 From: somewhereintime at airpost.net (somewhereintime) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 22:22:55 +0800 Subject: [plug] Revolution OS movie? In-Reply-To: <20040714140730.GT2482@blackham.com.au> References: <1089554752.20692.9.camel@natalie> <4b3125cc040711190767dce37e@mail.gmail.com> <1089599586.2048.0.camel@localhost> <1089615196.6662.87.camel@phregia.ucs.uwa.edu.au> <4b3125cc04071323581a36df6f@mail.gmail.com> <1089793423.9555.200326976@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20040714140730.GT2482@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: <1089814975.17997.200346410@webmail.messagingengine.com> is this for the installfest? On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 22:07:30 +0800, "Bernard Blackham" said: > On Wed, Jul 14, 2004 at 04:23:43PM +0800, somewhereintime wrote: > > I have it on cd.... > > Will you be bringing it along? :) > > Bernard. > > -- > Bernard Blackham > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -- somewhereintime somewhereintime at airpost.net From caston at arach.net.au Wed Jul 14 22:36:24 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 22:36:24 +0800 Subject: [plug] supressing JUST newline echo In-Reply-To: <40F54203.8050807@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <40F53FA3.1080405@postnewspapers.com.au> <40F54203.8050807@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <1089815784.2040.43.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2004-07-14 at 22:24, Craig Ringer wrote: > Craig Ringer wrote: > > > So ... is there something obvious all UNIX programmers "just know" that > > I'm missing here? > > I figured it out as soon as I posted, of course. Accept the newline > printing, then output a terminal control sequence to move the cursor > back up a line. *sigh* > > *grumble* > Why do we still use this interface? > *grumble* > (I do realise the advantages, it just remains frustrating and somewhat > painful.). > Careful Craig or you'll end up as another member of our grumpy old men club. > -- > Craig Ringer > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From bernard at blackham.com.au Wed Jul 14 22:30:32 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 22:30:32 +0800 Subject: [plug] Revolution OS movie? In-Reply-To: <1089814975.17997.200346410@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1089554752.20692.9.camel@natalie> <4b3125cc040711190767dce37e@mail.gmail.com> <1089599586.2048.0.camel@localhost> <1089615196.6662.87.camel@phregia.ucs.uwa.edu.au> <4b3125cc04071323581a36df6f@mail.gmail.com> <1089793423.9555.200326976@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20040714140730.GT2482@blackham.com.au> <1089814975.17997.200346410@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20040714143032.GV2482@blackham.com.au> On Wed, Jul 14, 2004 at 10:22:55PM +0800, somewhereintime wrote: > On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 22:07:30 +0800, "Bernard Blackham" > said: > > On Wed, Jul 14, 2004 at 04:23:43PM +0800, somewhereintime wrote: > > > I have it on cd.... > > > > Will you be bringing it along? :) > > is this for the installfest? Sorry about the lack of context. Yes it is. If you can't make it, could you email me offlist to arrange a way of borrowing it? :) TIA, Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Thu Jul 15 00:42:57 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 00:42:57 +0800 Subject: [plug] supressing JUST newline echo In-Reply-To: <40F53FA3.1080405@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <40F53FA3.1080405@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <200407150042.57770@death.2.spammers> On Wednesday 14 July 2004 22:13, Craig Ringer wrote: > I'm running into an interesting problem. I need to read a block of > input, terminated with a carriage return (\r, enter key). This is in a > Python program, but I doubt that matters. I also need to prevent the CR > from resulting in the display of a new line. I need everything else to > work though - backspace, CTL-C, etc. In other words, I want a normal > buffered read, but to suppress the display of the newline? > > Is there any way to do this without using a getch() like function and > manually handling backspace, CTL-C, etc? > > 'stty igncr' doesn't do what I want - I need to receive the CR, just not > echo it. stty -opost will prevent output post-processing, including echoing of carriage returns. There are basically 3 modes of terminal control; raw, cooked and pickled. :-) Look at "icanon" in stty and play with that a bit until you grok what it does... then add other input and output processing options as the become necessary. A long time ago, it seems, I wrote a simple menu system using icanon and times in a shell program. The thing was lost in the great ESDI crash of 1991 or thereabouts. I gather that this is some sort of interactive process where input mostly gets echoed to the user, but you don't want the cursor to move off the line when enter is pressed. Can't remember exactly how I did that at the time... seemed trivial after I figured it out. :-) Hint: stty -g spews out the bits you need to restore the tty to a previous state. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Thu Jul 15 01:02:51 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 01:02:51 +0800 Subject: [plug] supressing JUST newline echo In-Reply-To: <200407150042.57770@death.2.spammers> References: <40F53FA3.1080405@postnewspapers.com.au> <200407150042.57770@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <40F5673B.9010407@postnewspapers.com.au> Bernd Felsche wrote: > stty -opost > > will prevent output post-processing, including echoing of carriage > returns. Excellent. I think that's pretty much what I was after. > There are basically 3 modes of terminal control; raw, cooked and > pickled. :-) How very UNIX... > I gather that this is some sort of interactive process where input > mostly gets echoed to the user, but you don't want the cursor to > move off the line when enter is pressed. Can't remember exactly how > I did that at the time... seemed trivial after I figured it out. :-) Yep. What I actually need it for is the 'INPUT' command of an interpreter for an ancient (1983) programming language called Plain English. I'm writing a new interpreter for it - in Python, because I know it and it'd take forever in far too many other languages. Why? Because we have a production system written in the language, and it looks like at least in the short term we're better off re-implementing the language environment than the program written in that language. It's already 50% done - the "files" the language works with are now backed by PostgreSQL tables, with full support for transactions etc. Of course, that's not used to much advantage by the app, but that can be changed because I'll also be able to add new language commands once the interpreter is done. It'll just be nice to know, for now, that a client disconnect won't corrupt the database :-) like it can with the current one. That way, we can blow the dust off the old app and keep it kicking for long enough to seriously look at the best options for re-implementing it. It's just getting too hariy running in it's current environment (this the Microsoft Xenix app I keep talking about). Anyway, that's probably TMI really but it's so /fun/. It's also scary that its easier to reimplement the language than the app. The new version is, unfortunately, 1/10 the speed on a machine three times as fast... but that's w/o Psyco, any effort to cache literals, or any optimisation at all. I suspect it'll be good enough in the end. -- Craig Ringer From vk6ksj at westnet.com.au Thu Jul 15 04:12:22 2004 From: vk6ksj at westnet.com.au (Kai) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 04:12:22 +0800 Subject: [plug] Illiad's take on Gates' standard "Linux is bad" line ;) Message-ID: <40F593A6.6010008@westnet.com.au> Just read this on UF and I don't know many of you read that but I had to share it ! Aint it the truth ! :P http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20040714 From onno at itmaze.com.au Thu Jul 15 06:14:50 2004 From: onno at itmaze.com.au (Onno Benschop) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 08:14:50 +1000 Subject: [plug] Searching Email Message-ID: <1089843290.32090.3.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> Hey, I have 530 mailboxes with 1.4Gb of mail since 1997. I use Evolution as my interface. Yesterday I manually (six clicks per box:-) converted each of those mailboxes from mbox to maildir because I need a means of searching my mail. Evolution allows you to search per box, but 1.4Gb of mail in one box is not useful. I used to grep, then locate the mailbox, then go and read the message, this is annoying me. I installed swish++ to index my mail, but it only supports the maildir format. Now that I've indexed my mail, this search is only marginally better than grep. What do people use to search their mail? I'm happy to launch a web-browser - there is one running most of the time any way - but what do others use? PS. Evolution 1.4.6 from Debian Testing Onno Benschop Connected via Optus B3 at S27?52'30" - E151?16'25" (Millmerran, QLD) -- ()/)/)() ..ASCII for Onno.. |>>? ..EBCDIC for Onno.. --- -. -. --- ..Morse for Onno.. Proudly supported by Skipper Trucks, Highway1, Concept AV, Sony Central, Dalcon ITmaze - ABN: 56 178 057 063 - ph: 04 1219 8888 - onno at itmaze dot com dot au From billk at iinet.net.au Thu Jul 15 06:44:16 2004 From: billk at iinet.net.au (William Kenworthy) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 06:44:16 +0800 Subject: [plug] Searching Email In-Reply-To: <1089843290.32090.3.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> References: <1089843290.32090.3.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> Message-ID: <1089845056.10301.2.camel@rattus.Localdomain> Create a virtual mail box that contains all 530 mailboxes, then you can use the built in search across the lot. About the only use Ive found for this function that makes sense! BillK On Thu, 2004-07-15 at 06:14, Onno Benschop wrote: > Hey, > > I have 530 mailboxes with 1.4Gb of mail since 1997. I use Evolution as > my interface. Yesterday I manually (six clicks per box:-) converted each > of those mailboxes from mbox to maildir because I need a means of > searching my mail. > > Evolution allows you to search per box, but 1.4Gb of mail in one box is > not useful. I used to grep, then locate the mailbox, then go and read > the message, this is annoying me. > > I installed swish++ to index my mail, but it only supports the maildir > format. Now that I've indexed my mail, this search is only marginally > better than grep. > > What do people use to search their mail? > > I'm happy to launch a web-browser - there is one running most of the > time any way - but what do others use? > > PS. Evolution 1.4.6 from Debian Testing > > Onno Benschop > > Connected via Optus B3 at S27?52'30" - E151?16'25" (Millmerran, QLD) From onno at itmaze.com.au Thu Jul 15 07:22:58 2004 From: onno at itmaze.com.au (Onno Benschop) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:22:58 +1000 Subject: [plug] Searching Email In-Reply-To: <1089845056.10301.2.camel@rattus.Localdomain> References: <1089843290.32090.3.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> <1089845056.10301.2.camel@rattus.Localdomain> Message-ID: <1089847378.32090.8.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> On Thu, 2004-07-15 at 08:44, William Kenworthy wrote: > Create a virtual mail box that contains all 530 mailboxes, then you can > use the built in search across the lot. About the only use Ive found > for this function that makes sense! Yeah, only takes six years to launch :-) I use the vFolders a bit for my In-Box, allowing PLUG email to collect in one vFolder for example, but that's about as sophisticated as I can imagine. I think it's silly to create a vFolder across *all* my mail to just filter out mail for PLUG/client/whatever. Any other suggestions out there? Onno Benschop Connected via Optus B3 at S27?52'30" - E151?16'25" (Millmerran, QLD) -- ()/)/)() ..ASCII for Onno.. |>>? ..EBCDIC for Onno.. --- -. -. --- ..Morse for Onno.. Proudly supported by Skipper Trucks, Highway1, Concept AV, Sony Central, Dalcon ITmaze - ABN: 56 178 057 063 - ph: 04 1219 8888 - onno at itmaze dot com dot au From tsuki_yomi at zephilia.dyndns.org Thu Jul 15 07:45:00 2004 From: tsuki_yomi at zephilia.dyndns.org (James Budworth) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 07:45:00 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Online Banking. Message-ID: Not sure how many out there have noticed, but it seems that the recent security issues with IE are making banks think again about what browsers they support. I just logged onto Police and Nurses yesterday with Mozilla with the user agent changed, no surprise it worked as normal. However on a whim I tried it again with the default Mozilla user agent settings and it still worked! Can anyone confirm that their online banking pages are no longer IE specific? Are there any others that have changed thier tune? -- James Budworth From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Thu Jul 15 08:41:04 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 08:41:04 +0800 Subject: [plug] Online Banking. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200407150841.04729@death.2.spammers> On Thursday 15 July 2004 07:45, James Budworth wrote: > Not sure how many out there have noticed, but it seems that the recent > security issues with IE are making banks think again about what browsers > they support. > I just logged onto Police and Nurses yesterday with Mozilla with the > user agent changed, no surprise it worked as normal. However on a whim I > tried it again with the default Mozilla user agent settings and it still > worked! > Can anyone confirm that their online banking pages are no longer IE > specific? Haven't been for a while. I complained to them a couple of years ago about Opera compatability and the pages are mostly OK. Javascript on BPay is still rooted; Y2K bug when entering future payments. Reported about a year ago; but not fixed. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From r.steicke at bom.gov.au Thu Jul 15 09:05:26 2004 From: r.steicke at bom.gov.au (Russell Steicke) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:05:26 +0800 Subject: [plug] Web space In-Reply-To: <1089813364.6278.6.camel@natalie> References: <1089813364.6278.6.camel@natalie> Message-ID: <20040715010526.GD11731@postoffice.wa.bom.gov.au> On Wed, Jul 14, 2004 at 09:56:04PM +0800, Michael Collard wrote: > I am after some web space somewhere on the net to host a few video files > (different formats) of a promo video I made about linux. This video will > get its debut at the Installfest too :) I have made 5 separate copies > in OGM, AVI (divx) and MPEG formats and they total about 500Mb. > > Anyone know anywhere I can get this kinda hosting (maybe even for > free[hint hint]) to whack these files after the Installfest? I'd host > them myself but I've got a slowish connection (512/128). You could try Burst: http://bur.st/ I can't remember what the quota is without donating, but you could ask them, and the burst admins are on this list. -- Russell Steicke -- Fortune says: The best man for the job is often a woman. From darts at dialix.com.au Thu Jul 15 09:29:21 2004 From: darts at dialix.com.au (Dave Dartnall) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:29:21 +0800 Subject: [Plug] Mysql installation In-Reply-To: <1089807211.5221.8.camel@rattus.Localdomain> References: <200407141731.15960.darts@dialix.com.au> <1089807211.5221.8.camel@rattus.Localdomain> Message-ID: <200407150929.21349.darts@dialix.com.au> On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 08:13 pm, William Kenworthy wrote: > Re: [Plug] Mysql installation > From: > William Kenworthy ??(Home!) > To: > Plug List > Date: > Wed Jul 14 20:13:31 2004 > I cant remember if you mentioned it - but have you checked the mysql > logs? ?On gentoo they are in /var/log/mysql, not sure 'bout Mandrake. > > rattus root # ls -al /var/log/mysql/ > total 1077989 > drwxr-xr-x ? 2 mysql mysql ? ? ? ?112 Mar 20 12:46 . > drwxr-xr-x ?21 root ?root ? ? ? ?1256 Jul 14 07:03 .. > -rw-rw---- ? 1 mysql mysql ? ? ?52836 Jul 14 07:03 mysql.err > -rw-rw---- ? 1 mysql mysql 1102726729 Jul 14 20:10 mysql.log > > (hmmm, I may need to check logrotate ...) > > There is also a /etc/mysql directory with some config files - did you > remove them too? > > rattus root # ls -al /etc/mysql > total 15 > drwxr-xr-x ? ?2 root root ?104 Dec 22 ?2003 . > drwxr-xr-x ?112 root root 7256 Jul 14 07:03 .. > -rw-r--r-- ? ?1 root root 1229 May 23 10:03 my.cnf > -rw-r--r-- ? ?1 root root 1702 May 23 10:03 mysqlaccess.conf > > lastly, how are you starting the daemon? > > BillK Bill, thanks for perservering with this - you've given me something else to work on, and I'll follow up. As you can see, I'm not sure of the right questiond to ask and am still on dailup with only intermittent contact. -feel a bit guilty about wasting people's time on what may be silly questions. Dave D From senectus at gmail.com Thu Jul 15 09:36:23 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:36:23 +0800 Subject: [plug] Online Banking. In-Reply-To: <200407150841.04729@death.2.spammers> References: <200407150841.04729@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: My S.O. Works for PNCS in their Perth Call center (which is also where their IT support is), and yes they know that they support Mozilla, though I don't think they want to advertise it yet... will get an official word if you like.. -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Thu Jul 15 09:49:51 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:49:51 +0800 Subject: [plug] Searching Email In-Reply-To: <1089847378.32090.8.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> References: <1089843290.32090.3.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> <1089845056.10301.2.camel@rattus.Localdomain> <1089847378.32090.8.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> Message-ID: <20040715014951.GA28136@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <1089843290.32090.3.camel at latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> on Thu, Jul 15, 2004 at 08:14:50AM +1000, Onno Benschop wrote: > I have 530 mailboxes with 1.4Gb of mail since 1997. On the machine I'm using to write this message, I have 1.8GB of e-mail in about half as many mailboxes, so perhaps I have a similar problem. I think the problem has been raised on this list before but no one knew the magic bullet. > Evolution allows you to search per box, but 1.4Gb of mail in one box is > not useful. I used to grep, then locate the mailbox, then go and read > the message, this is annoying me. I suggest you steal the Gmail source code. But seriously... People on this list have previously suggested grepmail, so I once hoped it would be a great solution (regardless of whether it has indexing or not). However, its resource consumption makes it impractical for me. And even if it delivers a set of matches, I may need to reconstruct the entire thread (which will sometimes be spread across multiple mailboxes). This suggests I need a unified index of Message-IDs => mailing list archive solutions. That is, feed every stored message into a full-text 'mailing list' indexer that is designed to be able to reconstruct mail/news threads. I don't use Evolution so I don't know if you could expect any 'plug-ins' to help with this. Cameron has mentioned the "Lurker" list archiver, which is web-based but does *not* store HTML copies of every message (phew). Here is his demo site: http://cp.yi.org/lurker/splash/index.html I promise not to post that URL to Slashdot ;-) I notice that the 'List' option has a default setting of 'Any mailing list'. This suggests that it might be good for people with lots of mailboxes. > I'm happy to launch a web-browser - there is one running most of the > time any way - but what do others use? From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Thu Jul 15 10:00:33 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 10:00:33 +0800 Subject: [OT] What is this PLUG "grumpy old men club"? [was: Re: [plug] supressing JUST newline echo] In-Reply-To: <1089815784.2040.43.camel@localhost> References: <40F53FA3.1080405@postnewspapers.com.au> <40F54203.8050807@postnewspapers.com.au> <1089815784.2040.43.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20040715020033.GB28136@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <1089815784.2040.43.camel at localhost> on Wed, Jul 14, 2004 at 10:36:24PM +0800, Chris Caston wrote: > Careful Craig or you'll end up as another member of our grumpy > old men club. ?!?!?! Since it sounds like you and Craig and I are probably within 6 months of each other (unless Craig is a year different or something, I can't remember), I have the following urgent and critical questions: - Why was there no smiley at the end of your post? - Am I eligible to enter "grumpy old men club"? - Am I "over the hill"? - Who else is in the grumpy old men club? - How can you been an "old man" given that Harry must be at least 5 times your age!!* ;-) * Now I guess I'm neither grumpy nor old, just "endangered" ;-) From leon at brooks.fdns.net Thu Jul 15 10:12:21 2004 From: leon at brooks.fdns.net (Leon Brooks) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 10:12:21 +0800 Subject: Recordings of PLUG talks - Was: Re: [plug] ** July PLUG Seminar Notice ** In-Reply-To: <20040713160012.GH2482@blackham.com.au> References: <20040712041121.GR2482@blackham.com.au> <200407131046.43629.sboak@westnet.com.au> <20040713160012.GH2482@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: <200407151012.21711.leon@brooks.fdns.net> On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 00:00, Bernard Blackham wrote: > We started recording tonight's talk, but unfortunately the laptop > recording fell asleep less than 5 minutes in :( Ah, but did it wake up correctly afterwards? (-: Cheers; Leon From leon at brooks.fdns.net Thu Jul 15 10:31:40 2004 From: leon at brooks.fdns.net (Leon Brooks) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 10:31:40 +0800 Subject: [plug] Online Banking. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200407151031.40822.leon@brooks.fdns.net> On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 07:45, James Budworth wrote: > Not sure how many out there have noticed, but it seems that the > recent security issues with IE are making banks think again about > what browsers they support. NAB has supported Mozilla for a fair while, although not officially on Linux. They have a shocking amount of pointless JavaScript and behind-the-scenes messing about going on to make it all happen, but the quality and portability of the JS has steadily improved over the last few years. Cheers; Leon From leon at brooks.fdns.net Thu Jul 15 10:33:53 2004 From: leon at brooks.fdns.net (Leon Brooks) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 10:33:53 +0800 Subject: [plug] Searching Email In-Reply-To: <20040715014951.GA28136@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <1089843290.32090.3.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> <1089847378.32090.8.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> <20040715014951.GA28136@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <200407151033.53032.leon@brooks.fdns.net> On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:49, James Devenish wrote: > In message <1089843290.32090.3.camel at latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> > on Thu, Jul 15, 2004 at 08:14:50AM +1000, Onno Benschop wrote: >> I have 530 mailboxes with 1.4Gb of mail since 1997. > On the machine I'm using to write this message, I have 1.8GB of > e-mail in about half as many mailboxes, so perhaps I have a similar > problem. I think the problem has been raised on this list before but > no one knew the magic bullet. KMail doesn't seem to mind 4GB of mail in 98 MailDirs. Takes about a minute to search one 30,000-message box. Cheers; Leon From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Thu Jul 15 10:38:42 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 10:38:42 +0800 Subject: [plug] Searching Email In-Reply-To: <200407151033.53032.leon@brooks.fdns.net> References: <1089843290.32090.3.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> <1089847378.32090.8.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> <20040715014951.GA28136@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <200407151033.53032.leon@brooks.fdns.net> Message-ID: <20040715023842.GD11625@cp.yi.org> Leon Brooks wrote: > >> I have 530 mailboxes with 1.4Gb of mail since 1997. > > > On the machine I'm using to write this message, I have 1.8GB of > > e-mail in about half as many mailboxes, so perhaps I have a similar > > problem. I think the problem has been raised on this list before but > > no one knew the magic bullet. > > KMail doesn't seem to mind 4GB of mail in 98 MailDirs. Takes about a > minute to search one 30,000-message box. Mutt is appalling with large Maildirs and IMAP boxes, and merely bad with large mboxes. (It can be made slightly faster with Maildirs, BTW, if you use the noatime mount option.) Lurker can search my PLUG archives with ~25000 messages in less time than it takes Mozilla to render the results list (i.e. substantially less than half a second). Cameron. From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Thu Jul 15 10:52:25 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 10:52:25 +0800 Subject: [plug] Searching Email In-Reply-To: <20040715023842.GD11625@cp.yi.org> References: <1089843290.32090.3.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> <200407151033.53032.leon@brooks.fdns.net> <20040715023842.GD11625@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <200407151052.25040@death.2.spammers> On Thursday 15 July 2004 10:38, Cameron Patrick wrote: > Leon Brooks wrote: > > >> I have 530 mailboxes with 1.4Gb of mail since 1997. > > KMail doesn't seem to mind 4GB of mail in 98 MailDirs. Takes about a > Mutt is appalling with large Maildirs and IMAP boxes, and merely bad > Lurker can search my PLUG archives with ~25000 messages in less time Would htdig be of any help? -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Thu Jul 15 11:15:35 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 11:15:35 +0800 Subject: [plug] Root filesystem not remounting read-write? Message-ID: <200407151115.35332@death.2.spammers> My UPS has decided to go insane and shut down sproadically. The root filesystem (reiser) seems to have been afflicted in some way during one crash... it fsck's OK, but a normal boot fails to mount it read-write. I now have to boot to runlevel 1, remount root read-write, clean up the mount table and change runlevel to 5 to get a usable system. I've instrumented boot.localfs with debug statements but not yet tried a reboot with that as I'm doing a huge data transfer right now. Should I be looking at things other than the return status of the mount commands? -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Thu Jul 15 11:33:33 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 11:33:33 +0800 Subject: [plug] Searching Email In-Reply-To: <1089843290.32090.3.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> References: <1089843290.32090.3.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> Message-ID: <40F5FB0D.1090209@postnewspapers.com.au> Onno Benschop wrote: > What do people use to search their mail? I store it on a Cyrus IMAPd back end, use 'squatter' to maintain full text indexes of the mailboxes, and search using the server-side IMAP 'SEARCH' command from Evolution and sometimes Mozilla. Of course, I haven't had my mail in mbox/maildir/anything for a long time, so I can't give a useful speed comparison. My searches aren't as fast as they should be because my server's I/O performance is pretty dismal. All I can suggest is that you try it and see. 'mailutil' from the uw-imapd distribution is pretty good for importing mail into Cyrus, and handles maildir. Unfortunately that's a pretty significant time investment to just get decent mail indexing :-( -- Craig Ringer From scott at linuxit.com.au Thu Jul 15 11:32:23 2004 From: scott at linuxit.com.au (Scott Middleton) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 11:32:23 +0800 Subject: [plug] Mcafee Linux command line scanner licensing Message-ID: <1089862343.3191.76.camel@sarge.int.linuxit.com.au> I always thought Mcafee was expensive to buy if you just wanted to use the command line scanner along with Amavis. I have been buying the Active Virus Scan Suite for clients because I was told (incorrectly) that this was the only way to license the command line scanner. Recently I contacted Mcafee again and I was finally put through to a guy who could help me: Hayden Tanner business at groupservices.com.au You can buy licenses for the Command line scanner alone without all the rest of the guff. They cost under AU$20inc but you have to buy a minimum of 11. This is for the perpetual license. The perpetual license only comes with 1 year of upgrades though :) very schneaky. To pay for upgrades is $7.48 per license per year. I personally would wait until you need an upgrade and then buy it. The command line scanner updates only seem to be around once a year anyway. I know we have had discussions on this list before about which virus scanner to use with Amavis and on each occasion Mcafee came out as too expensive. I was assured that this is quite alright and fine according to their licensing. Regards -- Scott Middleton Linux Information Technology From harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au Thu Jul 15 11:34:51 2004 From: harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au (Harry) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 11:34:51 +0800 Subject: [OT] What is this PLUG "grumpy old men club"? [was: Re: [plug] supressing JUST newline echo] In-Reply-To: <20040715020033.GB28136@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <40F53FA3.1080405@postnewspapers.com.au> <40F54203.8050807@postnewspapers.com.au> <1089815784.2040.43.camel@localhost> <20040715020033.GB28136@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <20040715113451.7fd3a2ac.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 10:00:33 +0800 James Devenish wrote: > - How can you been an "old man" given that Harry must be at least 5 > times your age!!* ;-) =:o !!!!! Damn. Why has no one invented a "fists-on-hips gob-smacked" smiley? Take this: http://www.pizzawithattitude.com.au/pwa.jpg > * Now I guess I'm neither grumpy nor old, just "endangered" ;-) Yeah. Too right. Cheeky bugger :-) I'd rather do stroppy. Sort of cross with attitude when it suits. H From senectus at gmail.com Thu Jul 15 11:52:51 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 11:52:51 +0800 Subject: [plug] Spark accounts? Message-ID: Who do I need to (threaten to) sleep with to get my spark account activated? I only require the account and don't need web space or e-mail (I have far too much/many of these as it is). I'll mostly be using the account for ssh, telnet on port 25 and thats about it.. Though I might like to do firewall testing (port strobing) on the odd occasion (all legit of course), does anyone foresee a problem with any of that? -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Thu Jul 15 11:57:17 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 11:57:17 +0800 Subject: [plug] Root filesystem not remounting read-write? In-Reply-To: <200407151115.35332@death.2.spammers> References: <200407151115.35332@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <20040715035717.GA31722@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <200407151115.35332 at death.2.spammers> on Thu, Jul 15, 2004 at 11:15:35AM +0800, Bernd Felsche wrote: > The root filesystem (reiser) seems to have been afflicted in some > way during one crash... it fsck's OK, but a normal boot fails to > mount it read-write. [...] > I've instrumented boot.localfs with debug statements...should I be > looking at things other than the return status of the mount commands? Forgive me for asking the obvious: - are you sure that your dmesg and other logs do not give any hint as to why the volume ends up read-only? - Is your /etc/fstab OK? From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Thu Jul 15 12:03:59 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:03:59 +0800 Subject: [plug] Spark accounts? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040715040359.GB31722@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message on Thu, Jul 15, 2004 at 11:52:51AM +0800, Senectus . wrote: > Who do I need to (threaten to) sleep with to get my spark account > activated? Funny you should say that* (because of an off-list thread about Cameron's and Bernard's on-list comments to each other regarding distribution of Installfest flyers -- I asked "Which one of you is the wife?). * Although I realise it's most likely an allusion to things that have been said / written on the PLUG website in the past. From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Thu Jul 15 12:09:01 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:09:01 +0800 Subject: [plug] Mcafee Linux command line scanner licensing In-Reply-To: <1089862343.3191.76.camel@sarge.int.linuxit.com.au> References: <1089862343.3191.76.camel@sarge.int.linuxit.com.au> Message-ID: <40F6035D.8060704@postnewspapers.com.au> Scott Middleton wrote: > I know we have had discussions on this list before about which virus > scanner to use with Amavis and on each occasion Mcafee came out as too > expensive. I was assured that this is quite alright and fine according > to their licensing. Hmm. OK. That price is less than 1/4 of the best price I was ever able to determine for Sophos _or_ McAfee. Nice. Frankly, though, I see a virus scanner as a less and less useful tool. With the rapid release of new virus variants, I'm relying almost totally on attachment blocking and quarantining, with virus scanning as a safety measure and as something to stop macro viruses. ClamAV seems to do that job quite nicely. If they'd only offered me a decent price in the first place, I'd probably be using their software today. -- Craig Ringer From bernard at blackham.com.au Thu Jul 15 12:07:59 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:07:59 +0800 Subject: [plug] Spark accounts? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040715040759.GI2482@blackham.com.au> On Thu, Jul 15, 2004 at 11:52:51AM +0800, Senectus . wrote: > Who do I need to (threaten to) sleep with to get my spark account activated? Nobody, hopefully. :) > Though I might like to do firewall testing (port strobing) on the odd > occasion (all legit of course), does anyone foresee a problem with any > of that? Nup. So long as it's within any sensible TOS agreement :) Email me a preferred username offlist, and I'll create one. New members should get one automatically once I get more organised... Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Thu Jul 15 12:09:02 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:09:02 +0800 Subject: [plug] Root filesystem not remounting read-write? In-Reply-To: <20040715035717.GA31722@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <200407151115.35332@death.2.spammers> <20040715035717.GA31722@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <200407151209.02255@death.2.spammers> On Thursday 15 July 2004 11:57, James Devenish wrote: > In message <200407151115.35332 at death.2.spammers> > on Thu, Jul 15, 2004 at 11:15:35AM +0800, Bernd Felsche wrote: > > The root filesystem (reiser) seems to have been afflicted in some > > way during one crash... it fsck's OK, but a normal boot fails to > > mount it read-write. > > [...] > > > I've instrumented boot.localfs with debug statements...should I be > > looking at things other than the return status of the mount commands? > > Forgive me for asking the obvious: > - are you sure that your dmesg and other logs > do not give any hint as to why the volume ends > up read-only? dmesg is the first thing I checked; then /var/log/boot.msg (/var is a separate filesystem) Unfortunately, boot.localfs re-directed some stderr to /dev/null in places, so I hope I'll get some useful diagnostics from my instruments next boot. > - Is your /etc/fstab OK? Yup. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From patrick at tehvand.com Thu Jul 15 12:34:50 2004 From: patrick at tehvand.com (Patrick Tehvand) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:34:50 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] props to Harris Technology Message-ID: <40F6096A.3080001@tehvand.com> Hi all, just wanted to give a big thumbs up to Harris Technology for their customer support. Recently bought a Netgear 602 ADSL modem off them. Was setting it up today and it died. No real reason. Called them and they said within 30 seconds of being on the call, to bring it in and they will swap it for a new one. I told them I didnt have the packing box anymore and they said not a problem. Credit where credit is due I guess. Patrick From jjohnson at sirrah-comp.com Thu Jul 15 12:44:03 2004 From: jjohnson at sirrah-comp.com (Joel Johnson) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:44:03 +0800 Subject: [plug] Sparc and xbox accounts Message-ID: <011b01c46a26$5b7285b0$b501a8c0@joelj> Have recently joined PLUG at this weeks seminar - congrats to Bernard for being able to combine a presentation with a technology demonstration and have the technology do what it was supposed to (laptop going into suspend and then back again) except of course for the sound recording but then that wasn't part of the demo. ;-) Anyways, was wondering what the accounts on the Sparc and xbox machines were for? The website doesn't mention this. Joel Johnson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bernard at blackham.com.au Thu Jul 15 12:53:00 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:53:00 +0800 Subject: [plug] Sparc and xbox accounts In-Reply-To: <011b01c46a26$5b7285b0$b501a8c0@joelj> References: <011b01c46a26$5b7285b0$b501a8c0@joelj> Message-ID: <20040715045300.GK2482@blackham.com.au> On Thu, Jul 15, 2004 at 12:44:03PM +0800, Joel Johnson wrote: > for the sound recording but then that wasn't part of the demo. ;-) Wasn't my laptop doing the recording either ;) I will be more prepared recording-wise next time, though! > Anyways, was wondering what the accounts on the Sparc and xbox machines were > for? The website doesn't mention this. As per my last post to Senectus, I need to get more organised about this!. For now, if you email me a preferred username, I'll double-check you've paid up and create you an account :) Kind regards, Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From quadfour at iinet.net.au Thu Jul 15 12:51:44 2004 From: quadfour at iinet.net.au (Michael) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:51:44 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] [OT] props to Harris Technology In-Reply-To: <40F6096A.3080001@tehvand.com> References: <40F6096A.3080001@tehvand.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jul 2004, Patrick Tehvand wrote: > > Hi all, just wanted to give a big thumbs up to Harris Technology for > their customer support. > > Recently bought a Netgear 602 ADSL modem off them. Was setting it up > today and it died. No real reason. Called them and they said within 30 > seconds of being on the call, to bring it in and they will swap it for a > new one. I told them I didnt have the packing box anymore and they said > not a problem. > > Credit where credit is due I guess. Going a little OT here... The Netgeam DM602 modems are bad. The chipset they use is the same as a DLink DSL302G, both modems have connection & reliability problems & should never have been sold at all. Kinda like LT modems :) Regards Michael Collard From senectus at gmail.com Thu Jul 15 13:00:13 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 13:00:13 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] props to Harris Technology In-Reply-To: References: <40F6096A.3080001@tehvand.com> Message-ID: > DLink DSL302G, both modems have connection & reliability problems & > should never have been sold at all. Kinda like LT modems :) oh GREAT.. NOW you tell me :-( -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From paul at sdmgroup.com.au Thu Jul 15 13:02:57 2004 From: paul at sdmgroup.com.au (Paul Arch) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 13:02:57 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] props to Harris Technology References: <40F6096A.3080001@tehvand.com> Message-ID: <00ae01c46a28$feb3d150$0401050a@cel2000> > The Netgeam DM602 modems are bad. The chipset they use is the same as a > DLink DSL302G, both modems have connection & reliability problems & > should never have been sold at all. Kinda like LT modems :) I have two running, havent had any problems (crosses fingers). They work nicely hanging off linux firewall / eth port :) Cheers Paul From sboak at westnet.com.au Thu Jul 15 13:04:58 2004 From: sboak at westnet.com.au (Steve Boak) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 13:04:58 +0800 Subject: [plug] Online Banking. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200407151304.58970.sboak@westnet.com.au> On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 07:45 am, James Budworth wrote: [...] > Can anyone confirm that their online banking pages are no longer IE > specific? ANZ have been fine with Mozilla on Linux for at least a couple of years. Steve -- "Most men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and continue on as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill From senectus at gmail.com Thu Jul 15 13:12:32 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 13:12:32 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] props to Harris Technology In-Reply-To: <00ae01c46a28$feb3d150$0401050a@cel2000> References: <40F6096A.3080001@tehvand.com> <00ae01c46a28$feb3d150$0401050a@cel2000> Message-ID: > I have two running, havent had any problems (crosses fingers). They work > nicely hanging off linux firewall / eth port :) > I hate them cause they're complete bastards to figure out how to put them into bridging mode. the 300's before them were really REALLY easy. -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au Thu Jul 15 14:16:31 2004 From: harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au (Harry) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:16:31 +0800 Subject: [plug] Canon C43SX support Message-ID: <20040715141631.335c3710.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> Hello Does anyone have experience getting a Canon C43SX printer running under CUPS ? It's not listed on linuxprinting.org and the only reference I can find to it is here: http://www.mail-archive.com/osdn-everything-txt-mm at newsfeed.osdn.com/msg00363.html which suggests preliniary support for the printer in Gimp-Print 4.3.19 (development) I need to set this up on debian woody. I can fetch a newer cup-sys from backports.org which I think I need to use this gimp-print. But first, has anyone tried this version of gimp-print particularly under woody ? It gives the usual development-only warnings so it'd be good to hear if someone is using it or if an alternative gimp-print is now available. cu Harry -- Are you a computer angel? http://www.computerangels.org.au/ From quadfour at iinet.net.au Thu Jul 15 14:16:29 2004 From: quadfour at iinet.net.au (Michael) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:16:29 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] [OT] props to Harris Technology In-Reply-To: <00ae01c46a28$feb3d150$0401050a@cel2000> References: <40F6096A.3080001@tehvand.com> <00ae01c46a28$feb3d150$0401050a@cel2000> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jul 2004, Paul Arch wrote: > > > > > The Netgeam DM602 modems are bad. The chipset they use is the same as a > > DLink DSL302G, both modems have connection & reliability problems & > > should never have been sold at all. Kinda like LT modems :) > > I have two running, havent had any problems (crosses fingers). They work > nicely hanging off linux firewall / eth port :) The DSL302s do seem to work OK in bridged mode (apart from physical problems). Still, you want something that is 100%, or at least I do :) Regards Michael Collard From plug at jensz.id.au Thu Jul 15 14:21:25 2004 From: plug at jensz.id.au (Ben Jensz) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:21:25 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] props to Harris Technology In-Reply-To: <40F6096A.3080001@tehvand.com> References: <40F6096A.3080001@tehvand.com> Message-ID: <40F62265.4000900@jensz.id.au> I've ordered several things off of HT for work and a couple of things for myself before and I've always been pretty happy with their service and support as well. / Ben Patrick Tehvand wrote: > Hi all, just wanted to give a big thumbs up to Harris Technology for > their customer support. > From ranime at westnet.com.au Thu Jul 15 14:32:18 2004 From: ranime at westnet.com.au (ranime) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:32:18 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] props to Harris Technology In-Reply-To: References: <40F6096A.3080001@tehvand.com> <00ae01c46a28$feb3d150$0401050a@cel2000> Message-ID: <40F624F2.4030507@westnet.com.au> Michael wrote: > On Thu, 15 Jul 2004, Paul Arch wrote: > > >> >> >>>The Netgeam DM602 modems are bad. The chipset they use is the same as a >>>DLink DSL302G, both modems have connection & reliability problems & >>>should never have been sold at all. Kinda like LT modems :) >> >>I have two running, havent had any problems (crosses fingers). They work >>nicely hanging off linux firewall / eth port :) > > > The DSL302s do seem to work OK in bridged mode (apart from physical > problems). Still, you want something that is 100%, or at least I do :) > > Regards > Michael Collard Hi, can someone please explain 'bridged mode' ? I have seen it mentioned so many times relating to adsl modems etc... and google search results have just confused me. basicaly, what dose it do ? Thanks Max. From onno at itmaze.com.au Thu Jul 15 14:30:03 2004 From: onno at itmaze.com.au (Onno Benschop) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 16:30:03 +1000 Subject: [plug] Searching Email In-Reply-To: <1089843290.32090.3.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> References: <1089843290.32090.3.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> Message-ID: <1089872728.32090.26.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> On Thu, 2004-07-15 at 08:14, Onno Benschop wrote: > What do people use to search their mail? It's a sign of old age, replying to one's own email, but I just have to share something I learnt in the past hour. apt-cache search search mail index That gave back these results: mairix - Indexes and searches email in Maildir and MH formats mh-e - Emacs interface to the MH mail system swish++ - Simple Document Indexing System for Humans: C++ version htdig - WWW search system for an intranet or small internet Not using Emacs and disliking htdig and having tried swish++, I looked at mairix. I have to say: "Wow!" The user interface is: mairix (That generated the index and an upgraded index, for cron takes about 60 seconds.) The search is: mairix plug searching email evolution The resulting 5 hits are stored in the mailbox format of your preference, which you can place inside your mail program of choice. For maildir, it creates symlinks to the message. Thus, I do the search, browse to my designated mail folder within Evolution, and there are my matched messages... *Very* niiice. Now all I need to do is make a nice UI with a little shortcut on my menu-bar and we're be good to go. But this is too good not to tell you about. Oh, and of course the install was apt-get install mairix and the config file has 5 lines, all explained keyword by keyword in the manual. I'm happy... Onno Benschop Connected via Optus B3 at S27?52'30" - E151?16'25" (Millmerran, QLD) -- ()/)/)() ..ASCII for Onno.. |>>? ..EBCDIC for Onno.. --- -. -. --- ..Morse for Onno.. Proudly supported by Skipper Trucks, Highway1, Concept AV, Sony Central, Dalcon ITmaze - ABN: 56 178 057 063 - ph: 04 1219 8888 - onno at itmaze dot com dot au From plug at jensz.id.au Thu Jul 15 14:41:57 2004 From: plug at jensz.id.au (Ben Jensz) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:41:57 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] props to Harris Technology In-Reply-To: <40F624F2.4030507@westnet.com.au> References: <40F6096A.3080001@tehvand.com> <00ae01c46a28$feb3d150$0401050a@cel2000> <40F624F2.4030507@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <40F62735.4010704@jensz.id.au> It can mean two similar, but different things. 1. You put your ADSL router/modem into bridged mode and you then plug it into a computer which has a PPPoE client on it which handles the authentication. So basically it acts like an old 56K analogue modem in that the computer controls it and handles all the authentication. 2. You put your ADSL router/modem into bridged mode and have a specific bridged ADSL line configuration (non-standard) done to your phone line that doesn't have any authentication on it. You generally lose some features such as shaping with some ISPs if you do this though. Some of the reasons why you'd do the first one would be if the computer you're plugging the modem into handles the authentication and connection in a more reliable and stable manner than the PPPoE client built into the ADSL router/modem does or if you wanted to have finer control over firewalling etc. than the simple NAT / firewalls built into most ADSL routers/modems. / Ben ranime wrote: > > > Hi, can someone please explain 'bridged mode' ? > I have seen it mentioned so many times relating to adsl modems etc... > and google search results have just confused me. > basicaly, what dose it do ? > > Thanks Max. > From ranime at westnet.com.au Thu Jul 15 15:06:23 2004 From: ranime at westnet.com.au (ranime) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 15:06:23 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] props to Harris Technology In-Reply-To: <40F62735.4010704@jensz.id.au> References: <40F6096A.3080001@tehvand.com> <00ae01c46a28$feb3d150$0401050a@cel2000> <40F624F2.4030507@westnet.com.au> <40F62735.4010704@jensz.id.au> Message-ID: <40F62CEF.8080402@westnet.com.au> Thank you Ben, So, the way I understand it now from what you have said is that, if the modem router handles the authentication/logon-passwd etc, then no need for 'bridged mode' ? Is the security risk any different with or without it ? also, is the following correct ? If the modem router has or has not got a built in firewall NAT or no NAT (wich is not a true firewall) you could still configure and use shorwall etc... with or without 'bridged mode' ? thanks Max. Ben Jensz wrote: > It can mean two similar, but different things. > > 1. You put your ADSL router/modem into bridged mode and you then plug > it into a computer which has a PPPoE client on it which handles the > authentication. So basically it acts like an old 56K analogue modem in > that the computer controls it and handles all the authentication. > > 2. You put your ADSL router/modem into bridged mode and have a specific > bridged ADSL line configuration (non-standard) done to your phone line > that doesn't have any authentication on it. You generally lose some > features such as shaping with some ISPs if you do this though. > > Some of the reasons why you'd do the first one would be if the computer > you're plugging the modem into handles the authentication and connection > in a more reliable and stable manner than the PPPoE client built into > the ADSL router/modem does or if you wanted to have finer control over > firewalling etc. than the simple NAT / firewalls built into most ADSL > routers/modems. > > > / Ben > > > ranime wrote: > >> >> >> Hi, can someone please explain 'bridged mode' ? >> I have seen it mentioned so many times relating to adsl modems etc... >> and google search results have just confused me. >> basicaly, what dose it do ? >> >> Thanks Max. >> > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From senectus at gmail.com Thu Jul 15 15:03:21 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 15:03:21 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] props to Harris Technology In-Reply-To: <40F624F2.4030507@westnet.com.au> References: <40F6096A.3080001@tehvand.com> <00ae01c46a28$feb3d150$0401050a@cel2000> <40F624F2.4030507@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: > Hi, can someone please explain 'bridged mode' ? > I have seen it mentioned so many times relating to adsl modems etc... > and google search results have just confused me. > basicaly, what dose it do ? Well I use it so that the firewall (netscreen) uses the modem to dial, rather than the modem dial all on its own.. -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Thu Jul 15 15:05:54 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 15:05:54 +0800 Subject: [plug] Bridging in ADSL modems In-Reply-To: <40F62735.4010704@jensz.id.au> References: <40F6096A.3080001@tehvand.com> <00ae01c46a28$feb3d150$0401050a@cel2000> <40F624F2.4030507@westnet.com.au> <40F62735.4010704@jensz.id.au> Message-ID: <40F62CD2.4030007@postnewspapers.com.au> Ben Jensz wrote: > It can mean two similar, but different things. > > 1. You put your ADSL router/modem into bridged mode and you then plug > it into a computer which has a PPPoE client on it which handles the > authentication. So basically it acts like an old 56K analogue modem in > that the computer controls it and handles all the authentication. This is the more common meaning these days, as there are fewer and fewer bridged ADSL services around. > 2. You put your ADSL router/modem into bridged mode and have a specific > bridged ADSL line configuration (non-standard) done to your phone line > that doesn't have any authentication on it. You generally lose some > features such as shaping with some ISPs if you do this though. On the other hand, the reliability is incredible. I held on to my bridged ADSL connection until iiNet forced us off it kicking and screaming, despite the fact that we paid $30/month extra for it toward the end. Our DSL service has never been anwhere near as solid since - I never used to have to worry about Telstra's authentication services dying. > Some of the reasons why you'd do the first one would be if the computer > you're plugging the modem into handles the authentication and connection > in a more reliable and stable manner than the PPPoE client built into > the ADSL router/modem does or if you wanted to have finer control over > firewalling etc. than the simple NAT / firewalls built into most ADSL > routers/modems. Running your own PPPoE client also gives you better control of packet queuing and things like that. I've found it very helpful when trying to keep latency down on interactive traffic while bulk data transfers are running - especially when combined with a good QoS setup. It's also much easier to tell at a glance what's wrong with your 'net connection. 'tail /var/log/messages' is rather easier than "examine blinking lights in an attempt to figure out what's going on." -- Craig Ringer From plug at jensz.id.au Thu Jul 15 15:04:11 2004 From: plug at jensz.id.au (Ben Jensz) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 15:04:11 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] props to Harris Technology In-Reply-To: <40F62CEF.8080402@westnet.com.au> References: <40F6096A.3080001@tehvand.com> <00ae01c46a28$feb3d150$0401050a@cel2000> <40F624F2.4030507@westnet.com.au> <40F62735.4010704@jensz.id.au> <40F62CEF.8080402@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <40F62C6B.7000404@jensz.id.au> ranime wrote: > Thank you Ben, > So, the way I understand it now from what you have said is that, > if the modem router handles the authentication/logon-passwd etc, then > no need for 'bridged mode' ? > Pretty much. But it depends, some people like to use their Linux box to do it, especially with some cheaper ADSL hardware as it can be a bit unreliable with its authentication at times (even though it works fine in bridged mode). But some ADSL hardware works fine with the ADSL router handling the authentication. Personally I have a D-Link DSL-500 and its fine.. I never have any problems with that and I use that to handle the authentication on my ADSL connection. > Is the security risk any different with or without it ? > Depends who you ask. :) > also, is the following correct ? > If the modem router has or has not got a built in firewall > NAT or no NAT (wich is not a true firewall) > you could still configure and use shorwall etc... with or without > 'bridged mode' ? > You can, but you'd generally put the ADSL router into bridged mode and probably get the shorewall box to do the authentication. / Ben From plug at jensz.id.au Thu Jul 15 15:08:39 2004 From: plug at jensz.id.au (Ben Jensz) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 15:08:39 +0800 Subject: [plug] Bridging in ADSL modems In-Reply-To: <40F62CD2.4030007@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <40F6096A.3080001@tehvand.com> <00ae01c46a28$feb3d150$0401050a@cel2000> <40F624F2.4030507@westnet.com.au> <40F62735.4010704@jensz.id.au> <40F62CD2.4030007@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <40F62D77.5000107@jensz.id.au> Craig Ringer wrote: > > On the other hand, the reliability is incredible. I held on to my > bridged ADSL connection until iiNet forced us off it kicking and > screaming, despite the fact that we paid $30/month extra for it toward > the end. Our DSL service has never been anwhere near as solid since - > I never used to have to worry about Telstra's authentication services > dying. > Telstra's authentication was only a problem on Layer 3 ADSL connections anyway. Any authentication issues on Layer 2 are more likely to be the ISP's authentication. I don't get why iiNet wouldn't let you keep the bridged connection? We have a bridged connection with WestNet at work. Bridged connections are still Layer 3 as I understand it.. but WestNet has never made any noises about moving us. And I definitely agree about the reliability of bridged connections, ours has been flawless. When WestNet had a couple of issues early this year with authentication I think it was.. we didn't get affected at all. / Ben From ranime at westnet.com.au Thu Jul 15 15:28:51 2004 From: ranime at westnet.com.au (ranime) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 15:28:51 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] props to Harris Technology In-Reply-To: <40F62C6B.7000404@jensz.id.au> References: <40F6096A.3080001@tehvand.com> <00ae01c46a28$feb3d150$0401050a@cel2000> <40F624F2.4030507@westnet.com.au> <40F62735.4010704@jensz.id.au> <40F62CEF.8080402@westnet.com.au> <40F62C6B.7000404@jensz.id.au> Message-ID: <40F63233.1080705@westnet.com.au> Thanks, I understand a lot more now about 'bridged mode' than I did yesterday. Ben, your D-link DSL-500 ? i have been looking at D-link DSL504G, that has 4 eth ports. anyone know the difference in the 'G' DSL 504 or DSL504G ? could not find any info relating to this on the web sites . Also any veiws on the Dynalink RTA-770 Dynalink RTA-300 Netgear DG834 I have just discovered that the local exchange is only 100mtrs away, looking good, so now is the time for me to apply for ADSL ! Ben Jensz wrote: > ranime wrote: > >> Thank you Ben, >> So, the way I understand it now from what you have said is that, >> if the modem router handles the authentication/logon-passwd etc, then >> no need for 'bridged mode' ? >> > Pretty much. But it depends, some people like to use their Linux box to > do it, especially with some cheaper ADSL hardware as it can be a bit > unreliable with its authentication at times (even though it works fine > in bridged mode). But some ADSL hardware works fine with the ADSL > router handling the authentication. Personally I have a D-Link DSL-500 > and its fine.. I never have any problems with that and I use that to > handle the authentication on my ADSL connection. > >> Is the security risk any different with or without it ? >> > Depends who you ask. :) > >> also, is the following correct ? >> If the modem router has or has not got a built in firewall >> NAT or no NAT (wich is not a true firewall) >> you could still configure and use shorwall etc... with or without >> 'bridged mode' ? >> > You can, but you'd generally put the ADSL router into bridged mode and > probably get the shorewall box to do the authentication. > > > / Ben > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Thu Jul 15 15:35:51 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 15:35:51 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] props to Harris Technology In-Reply-To: <40F63233.1080705@westnet.com.au> References: <40F6096A.3080001@tehvand.com> <00ae01c46a28$feb3d150$0401050a@cel2000> <40F624F2.4030507@westnet.com.au> <40F62735.4010704@jensz.id.au> <40F62CEF.8080402@westnet.com.au> <40F62C6B.7000404@jensz.id.au> <40F63233.1080705@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <40F633D7.2040408@postnewspapers.com.au> ranime wrote: > anyone know the difference in the 'G' DSL 504 or DSL504G ? > could not find any info relating to this on the web sites . Be aware that if you were to put a DSL router with wireless functionality in to bridged mode, you'd lose the wireless router functionality. I'm not sure exactly how wireless routers work in bridged mode, but it's probably not going to be how you'd want if you want wireless 'net access. A device with a built-in switch probably also won't work quite how you expect when in bridged mode - it will work, and you'll be able to share 'net access between the connected PCs via the gateway PC, but there are IMHO some issues with that layout, as I've mentioned in previous discussion. It should be like a DSL modem plugged into a hub/switch, with all PCs also plugged into the same hub/switch. I use a DSL router in bridged mode, plus a separate wireless AP. Then again, I like to lock down wireless connections very solidly. A wireless DSL router in PPPoE (non-bridged) mode is likely to do the job quite well enough if you're not too concerned about control over security. > I have just discovered that the local exchange is only 100mtrs away, > looking good, so now is the time for me to apply for ADSL ! VHDSL, here we come! (I only wish...) -- Craig Ringer From sjung at mail2me.com.au Thu Jul 15 15:40:36 2004 From: sjung at mail2me.com.au (Aaron Thorn) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 15:40:36 +0800 Subject: [plug] APACHE Message-ID: <200407151540.36147.sjung@mail2me.com.au> Hi all, Firstly, I want to point out I'm a beginner with linux. i?ve installed mandrake 10 and been overwhelmed with its potential. I?ve self configured proftp and samba but I?m more interested in configuring Apache. However, I don?t know where to start. I?ve search the net and book shops for a beginners guide without luck. In the past I?ve worked with asp and want to see if it is easy to migrate over to CGI. I?m experienced in creating databases in MS access and creating forms in drumbeat and dreamweaver. Can someone direct me to the linux equivalent of asp,MS access,drumbeat/dreamweaver? I also want to know how to configure Apache. A good tutorial or web site would be much appreciated. Thanks aaron From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Thu Jul 15 16:23:31 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 16:23:31 +0800 Subject: [plug] APACHE In-Reply-To: <200407151540.36147.sjung@mail2me.com.au> References: <200407151540.36147.sjung@mail2me.com.au> Message-ID: <40F63F03.6050508@postnewspapers.com.au> Aaron Thorn wrote: > Firstly, I want to point out I'm a beginner with linux. i?ve installed > mandrake 10 and been overwhelmed with its potential. I?ve self configured > proftp and samba but I?m more interested in configuring Apache. However, I > don?t know where to start. I?ve search the net and book shops for a beginners > guide without luck. In the past I?ve worked with asp and want to see if it is > easy to migrate over to CGI. Well, CGI in general is a way to run programs that talk to the web server and send their output to the client. You're probably going to be most interested in moving over to PHP, which is in many ways very like ASP. PHP sometimes uses the CGI interface, but can also be run with mod_php as a component of the web server its self (and is much more efficient that way). > Can someone direct me to the linux equivalent of asp, I seem to remember hearing something about running ASP.net using Mono, apparently. Alternately, PHP is apparently quite ASP-like (I've never used ASP) and can normally be installed trivially on most modern distros (if it's not already installed). For more "conventional" CGI programming, Perl is very traditional, and Python is becoming very popular due to the fact that it's easier to write programs you can work on later. > MS > access There's a real hole in the application availibility there. I'm not aware if any good app with MS Access's functionality. OpenOffice has some forms capability, but I've always found it pretty clumsy. There are apps like Rekall that want to be Access-like, but Rekall at least seems to be very early days. > drumbeat/dreamweaver? Again, a serious weakness there. There are lots of HTML editors, but few WYSIWYG HTML editors. Nvu is in very early development, but headed in vaguely that direction. I'm not aware of anything professional, though. DreamWeaver under CrossOver Office? > I also want to know how to configure Apache. A > good tutorial or web site would be much appreciated. Apache should've installed with its own manual, and that's pretty good. Otherwise: http://google.com/search?q=apache+tutorial there doesn't seem to be any shortage... -- Craig Ringer From garbuck at westnet.com.au Thu Jul 15 16:26:50 2004 From: garbuck at westnet.com.au (Garry) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 16:26:50 +0800 Subject: [plug] Canon C43SX support In-Reply-To: <20040715141631.335c3710.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> References: <20040715141631.335c3710.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> Message-ID: <40F63FCA.50309@westnet.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 | Does anyone have experience getting a Canon C43SX printer running under | CUPS ? I remember looking into this last year - since then I bought a laser printer after looking at cartridge evilne$$, Linux compatability and running costs. The C43 was not supported, but the C41 was. Well that's how I remember it. Can you fib and get away with it? 8^)== HTH Garry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFA9j/KvdH9DANniC8RAgn4AKDePlO8hzgF1DJrKGXi8tmWiMABUwCgiXPI ZVI01u+SiQq+l/GoCBXNy8k= =E6QW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From quadfour at iinet.net.au Thu Jul 15 16:34:47 2004 From: quadfour at iinet.net.au (Michael) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 16:34:47 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] [OT] props to Harris Technology In-Reply-To: <40F63233.1080705@westnet.com.au> References: <40F6096A.3080001@tehvand.com> <00ae01c46a28$feb3d150$0401050a@cel2000> <40F624F2.4030507@westnet.com.au> <40F62735.4010704@jensz.id.au> <40F62CEF.8080402@westnet.com.au> <40F62C6B.7000404@jensz.id.au> <40F63233.1080705@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jul 2004, ranime wrote: > > Thanks, I understand a lot more now about 'bridged mode' than I did > yesterday. > > Ben, your D-link DSL-500 ? i have been looking at D-link DSL504G, > that has 4 eth ports. > anyone know the difference in the 'G' DSL 504 or DSL504G ? > could not find any info relating to this on the web sites . > > Also any veiws on the > Dynalink RTA-770 > Dynalink RTA-300 > Netgear DG834 > > I have just discovered that the local exchange is only 100mtrs away, > looking good, so now is the time for me to apply for ADSL ! Please stay away from the DSL504G or anything else with a G on the end, they're bad!. The best to go for right now is the DSL504 or the Netcomm NB1300. Linksys are good too, but expensive. Just that anything else I find can have problems (netgear, billion etc). If you don't mind an occasional reboot you might try Webexcel's they're not too bad :) Regards Michael Collard > Ben Jensz wrote: > > ranime wrote: > > > >> Thank you Ben, > >> So, the way I understand it now from what you have said is that, > >> if the modem router handles the authentication/logon-passwd etc, then > >> no need for 'bridged mode' ? > >> > > Pretty much. But it depends, some people like to use their Linux box to > > do it, especially with some cheaper ADSL hardware as it can be a bit > > unreliable with its authentication at times (even though it works fine > > in bridged mode). But some ADSL hardware works fine with the ADSL > > router handling the authentication. Personally I have a D-Link DSL-500 > > and its fine.. I never have any problems with that and I use that to > > handle the authentication on my ADSL connection. > > > >> Is the security risk any different with or without it ? > >> > > Depends who you ask. :) > > > >> also, is the following correct ? > >> If the modem router has or has not got a built in firewall > >> NAT or no NAT (wich is not a true firewall) > >> you could still configure and use shorwall etc... with or without > >> 'bridged mode' ? > >> > > You can, but you'd generally put the ADSL router into bridged mode and > > probably get the shorewall box to do the authentication. > > > > > > / Ben > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > From harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au Thu Jul 15 16:41:43 2004 From: harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au (Harry) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 16:41:43 +0800 Subject: [plug] Canon C43SX support In-Reply-To: <40F63FCA.50309@westnet.com.au> References: <20040715141631.335c3710.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> <40F63FCA.50309@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <20040715164143.17ed3bd9.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 16:26:50 +0800 Garry wrote: > The C43 was not supported, but the C41 was. Well that's how I remember > it. Can you fib and get away with it? 8^)== I fibbed and didn't. I'll see what success I have with getting the new gimp-print into woody. Thanks Garry. cu Harry -- Are you a computer angel? http://www.computerangels.org.au/ From russ at powerstech.com Thu Jul 15 16:47:50 2004 From: russ at powerstech.com (Russ Powers) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 16:47:50 +0800 Subject: [plug] APACHE In-Reply-To: <40F63F03.6050508@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <200407151540.36147.sjung@mail2me.com.au> <40F63F03.6050508@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <200407151647.50647.russ@powerstech.com> On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 04:23 pm, Craig Ringer wrote: > Aaron Thorn wrote: > > drumbeat/dreamweaver? > > Again, a serious weakness there. There are lots of HTML editors, but few > WYSIWYG HTML editors. Nvu is in very early development, but headed in > vaguely that direction. I'm not aware of anything professional, though. Netscape composer is very easy to use for creating web pages. > > DreamWeaver under CrossOver Office? > > > I also want to know how to configure Apache. A > > good tutorial or web site would be much appreciated. > > Apache should've installed with its own manual, and that's pretty good. > Otherwise: > http://google.com/search?q=apache+tutorial > there doesn't seem to be any shortage... > > -- > Craig Ringer > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -- Regards, Russ From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Thu Jul 15 17:02:47 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 17:02:47 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] props to Harris Technology In-Reply-To: References: <40F6096A.3080001@tehvand.com> <00ae01c46a28$feb3d150$0401050a@cel2000> <40F624F2.4030507@westnet.com.au> <40F62735.4010704@jensz.id.au> <40F62CEF.8080402@westnet.com.au> <40F62C6B.7000404@jensz.id.au> <40F63233.1080705@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <40F64837.9050304@postnewspapers.com.au> Michael wrote: > Please stay away from the DSL504G or anything else with a G on the end, > they're bad!. You're not the first person I've heard say that. Hmm. > The best to go for right now is the DSL504 or the Netcomm > NB1300. Linksys are good too, but expensive. Just that anything else I > find can have problems (netgear, billion etc). I was forced to buy a Billion ADSL modem for work (!!) recently, because our trusty Alcatel SpeedTouch Pro was stone cold dead on Monday morning and that's all I could get on short notice. I was astonished - it took me one minute to unpack it and get it hooked up, another minute to connect to it, 10 seconds to configure it for bridging, two minutes to figure out I really only need to do what I'd done in those 10 seconds, and then I was up and running. It's been 100% rock solid ever since. So ... I'm impressed. I keep on hearing people saying good things about them, but I'm used to people saying good things about anything nasty but cheap. In this case, at least in bridging mode, they seem pretty impressive. I have heard about problems with their PPPoE client, but ... doesn't bother me :-) -- Craig Ringer P.S: It'd be nice if you could trim the trailing quoted sigs and list notices on your posts. From natdan at gmail.com Thu Jul 15 17:19:54 2004 From: natdan at gmail.com (Nathan D) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 17:19:54 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] props to Harris Technology In-Reply-To: <40F64837.9050304@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <40F6096A.3080001@tehvand.com> <00ae01c46a28$feb3d150$0401050a@cel2000> <40F624F2.4030507@westnet.com.au> <40F62735.4010704@jensz.id.au> <40F62CEF.8080402@westnet.com.au> <40F62C6B.7000404@jensz.id.au> <40F63233.1080705@westnet.com.au> <40F64837.9050304@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <1a49a4c1040715021947e2df8e@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 17:02:47 +0800, Craig Ringer wrote: > I was forced to buy a Billion ADSL modem for work (!!) recently, because > our trusty Alcatel SpeedTouch Pro was stone cold dead on Monday morning > and that's all I could get on short notice. I was astonished - it took > me one minute to unpack it and get it hooked up, another minute to > connect to it, 10 seconds to configure it for bridging, two minutes to > figure out I really only need to do what I'd done in those 10 seconds, > and then I was up and running. It's been 100% rock solid ever since. > > So ... I'm impressed. I keep on hearing people saying good things about > them, but I'm used to people saying good things about anything nasty but > cheap. In this case, at least in bridging mode, they seem pretty > impressive. I have heard about problems with their PPPoE client, but ... > doesn't bother me :-) After hearing the good things about Billion, I bought one and waited for my exchange to be enabled a bit over a year ago. I played with the modem while waiting for the line to be activated and then put it into bridging mode as soon as ADSL was alive. A bit over a year later with the Billion 711CE and a ipcop/smoothwall firewall and I could not be happier. A friend has just got a 504G through iiNet and has had to give it a reset twice so far to get it back in action. I'm yet to have a look at it to see if I can help fix it at all. regards, Nathan D. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ natdan at gmail.com 1000 Mbs of email !! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From patrick at tehvand.com Thu Jul 15 17:33:45 2004 From: patrick at tehvand.com (Patrick Tehvand) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 17:33:45 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] props to Harris Technology In-Reply-To: <1a49a4c1040715021947e2df8e@mail.gmail.com> References: <40F6096A.3080001@tehvand.com> <00ae01c46a28$feb3d150$0401050a@cel2000> <40F624F2.4030507@westnet.com.au> <40F62735.4010704@jensz.id.au> <40F62CEF.8080402@westnet.com.au> <40F62C6B.7000404@jensz.id.au> <40F63233.1080705@westnet.com.au> <40F64837.9050304@postnewspapers.com.au> <1a49a4c1040715021947e2df8e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <40F64F79.9070508@tehvand.com> I have a Netgear DM602 conected to a linksys wrt54g with a custom firmware. I am currently messing with teh wrt54g in the hope of getting asterisk up and running on it. This farms out our wireless and fixed pcs etc. Up until the one today I haven't had an issue with the 602 after installing them in 6 locations. cheers Patrick From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Thu Jul 15 18:05:32 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:05:32 +0800 Subject: [plug] Root filesystem not remounting read-write? In-Reply-To: <200407151209.02255@death.2.spammers> References: <200407151115.35332@death.2.spammers> <20040715035717.GA31722@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <200407151209.02255@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <200407151805.32653@death.2.spammers> On Thursday 15 July 2004 12:09, I wrote: > On Thursday 15 July 2004 11:57, James Devenish wrote: > > In message <200407151115.35332 at death.2.spammers> > > > > on Thu, Jul 15, 2004 at 11:15:35AM +0800, Bernd Felsche wrote: > > > The root filesystem (reiser) seems to have been afflicted in some > > > way during one crash... it fsck's OK, but a normal boot fails to > > > mount it read-write. > > > > [...] > > > > > I've instrumented boot.localfs with debug statements...should I be > > > looking at things other than the return status of the mount commands? > > > > Forgive me for asking the obvious: > > - are you sure that your dmesg and other logs > > do not give any hint as to why the volume ends > > up read-only? > > dmesg is the first thing I checked; then /var/log/boot.msg > (/var is a separate filesystem) > > Unfortunately, boot.localfs re-directed some stderr to /dev/null in > places, so I hope I'll get some useful diagnostics from my > instruments next boot. > > > - Is your /etc/fstab OK? > > Yup. Problem found... I'd enabled scsidev to give reliable scsi device names for scanners and the card reader. The boot.scsidev, which runs after boot.localfs had a bug... it remounted the root filesystem as read-only on startup. OOPS! I changed the "ro" to "rw". Can't think of a reason why one would leave root read-only. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From ranime at westnet.com.au Thu Jul 15 18:40:06 2004 From: ranime at westnet.com.au (ranime) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:40:06 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] props to Harris Technology In-Reply-To: <40F633D7.2040408@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <40F6096A.3080001@tehvand.com> <00ae01c46a28$feb3d150$0401050a@cel2000> <40F624F2.4030507@westnet.com.au> <40F62735.4010704@jensz.id.au> <40F62CEF.8080402@westnet.com.au> <40F62C6B.7000404@jensz.id.au> <40F63233.1080705@westnet.com.au> <40F633D7.2040408@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <40F65F06.4040502@westnet.com.au> Craig, with regard to the following that you wrote... "It should be like a DSL modem plugged into a hub/switch, with all PCs also plugged into the same hub/switch." Are you saying that this is how it is with a built in switch ?... or this is how you would prefer to set up,bridged or not bridged, with a seperate modem and a seperate router and switch, and then if required, a seperate wireless unit? I just need a little clarification please. thank you. Max... Craig Ringer wrote: > > Be aware that if you were to put a DSL router with wireless > functionality in to bridged mode, you'd lose the wireless router > functionality. I'm not sure exactly how wireless routers work in bridged > mode, but it's probably not going to be how you'd want if you want > wireless 'net access. > > A device with a built-in switch probably also won't work quite how you > expect when in bridged mode - it will work, and you'll be able to share > 'net access between the connected PCs via the gateway PC, but there are > IMHO some issues with that layout, as I've mentioned in previous > discussion. It should be like a DSL modem plugged into a hub/switch, > with all PCs also plugged into the same hub/switch. > > I use a DSL router in bridged mode, plus a separate wireless AP. Then > again, I like to lock down wireless connections very solidly. > > A wireless DSL router in PPPoE (non-bridged) mode is likely to do the > job quite well enough if you're not too concerned about control over > security. > >> I have just discovered that the local exchange is only 100mtrs away, >> looking good, so now is the time for me to apply for ADSL ! > > > VHDSL, here we come! > > (I only wish...) > > -- > Craig Ringer From ranime at westnet.com.au Thu Jul 15 18:52:58 2004 From: ranime at westnet.com.au (ranime) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:52:58 +0800 Subject: [plug] Bridging in ADSL modems In-Reply-To: <40F62D77.5000107@jensz.id.au> References: <40F6096A.3080001@tehvand.com> <00ae01c46a28$feb3d150$0401050a@cel2000> <40F624F2.4030507@westnet.com.au> <40F62735.4010704@jensz.id.au> <40F62CD2.4030007@postnewspapers.com.au> <40F62D77.5000107@jensz.id.au> Message-ID: <40F6620A.2070606@westnet.com.au> (Sorry, I should have seen the Subject name change.) Craig, with regard to the following that you wrote... "It should be like a DSL modem plugged into a hub/switch, with all PCs also plugged into the same hub/switch." Are you saying that this is how it is with a built in switch ?... or this is how you would prefer to set up,bridged or not bridged, with a seperate modem and a seperate router and switch, and then if required, a seperate wireless unit? I just need a little clarification please. thank you. Max... Craig Ringer wrote: > > Be aware that if you were to put a DSL router with wireless functionality in to bridged mode, you'd lose the wireless router functionality. I'm not sure exactly how wireless routers work in bridged mode, but it's probably not going to be how you'd want if you want wireless 'net access. > > A device with a built-in switch probably also won't work quite how you expect when in bridged mode - it will work, and you'll be able to share 'net access between the connected PCs via the gateway PC, but there are IMHO some issues with that layout, as I've mentioned in previous discussion. It should be like a DSL modem plugged into a hub/switch, with all PCs also plugged into the same hub/switch. > > I use a DSL router in bridged mode, plus a separate wireless AP. Then again, I like to lock down wireless connections very solidly. > > A wireless DSL router in PPPoE (non-bridged) mode is likely to do the job quite well enough if you're not too concerned about control over security. > >> I have just discovered that the local exchange is only 100mtrs away, >> looking good, so now is the time for me to apply for ADSL ! > > > > VHDSL, here we come! > > (I only wish...) > > -- > Craig Ringer From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Thu Jul 15 19:27:05 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 19:27:05 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] props to Harris Technology In-Reply-To: <40F65F06.4040502@westnet.com.au> References: <40F6096A.3080001@tehvand.com> <00ae01c46a28$feb3d150$0401050a@cel2000> <40F624F2.4030507@westnet.com.au> <40F62735.4010704@jensz.id.au> <40F62CEF.8080402@westnet.com.au> <40F62C6B.7000404@jensz.id.au> <40F63233.1080705@westnet.com.au> <40F633D7.2040408@postnewspapers.com.au> <40F65F06.4040502@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <40F66A09.7080905@postnewspapers.com.au> ranime wrote: > Craig, > with regard to the following that you wrote... > > "It should be like a DSL modem plugged into a hub/switch, > with all PCs also plugged into the same hub/switch." > > Are you saying that this is how it is with a built in switch ?... Yes. The behaviour I've seen from most ADSL modems with a built in switch is that when configured in bridged mode they function exactly the same as a basic ADSL modem plugged into an external switch. > or > this is how you would prefer to set up,bridged or not bridged, Oh no. Definitely not. This is a configuration I run screaming from. I know people use it with no problems, but plugging my PCs into a bridged connection to the world (even if it is pretty much private to you and the exchange) isn't something I'm a fan of. > with a seperate modem and a seperate router and switch, > and then if required, a seperate wireless unit? That's my preference, yes. I tend to have a PC with a great many NICs to plug everything into, too, as I intensely dislike putting a DSL modem on the same network segment as client machines. Ditto a wireless AP (except for users on the wireless segment, obviously). > I just need a little clarification please. Understandably. -- Craig Ringer From arie99 at ozemail.com.au Thu Jul 15 20:07:08 2004 From: arie99 at ozemail.com.au (Arie Hol) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 20:07:08 +0800 Subject: [plug] APACHE In-Reply-To: <200407151540.36147.sjung@mail2me.com.au> Message-ID: <40F6E3EC.17662.A4CDE6@localhost> On 15 Jul 2004 at 15:40, Aaron Thorn wrote: 8<---------- snip ----------->8 > > Firstly, I want to point out I'm a beginner with linux. i?ve installed > mandrake 10 and been overwhelmed with its potential. I?ve self configured > proftp and samba but I?m more interested in configuring Apache. However, I > don?t know where to start. I?ve search the net and book shops for a beginners > guide without luck. 8<---------- snip ----------->8 Some Places to look that may be of interest re Apache : http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/00/44/index4a.html http://modperl.com:9000/perl_conference/handout.html http://httpd.apache.org/docs/ http://httpd.apache.org/docs-project/ http://perl.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fperl.apache.org%2F http://builder.cnet.com/webbuilding/pages/Servers/Apache/ss02a.html http://www.devshed.com/Server_Side/Administration/APACHE/page1.html http://www.apache.org/dist/httpd/ http://www.php.net/manual/en/install.apache.php http://www.webmasterbase.com/article/230/9 http://httpd.apache.org/docs/mod/index.html HTH From nofixed at westnet.com.au Thu Jul 15 20:22:53 2004 From: nofixed at westnet.com.au (Jim Householder) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 20:22:53 +0800 Subject: [plug] What distro for old laptop? In-Reply-To: <40F538A8.6000205@book-keepingnetwork.com.au> References: <40F2CA48.60602@westnet.com.au> <20040713010307.GA13070@wagoonline.com> <20040713011732.GA29105@cp.yi.org> <20040713023650.GD7515@cp.yi.org> <40F53090.1020503@westnet.com.au> <40F538A8.6000205@book-keepingnetwork.com.au> Message-ID: <40F6771D.8000805@westnet.com.au> Alex Polglaze wrote: > > > Jim Householder wrote: > >> Thanks for all the comments. I've decided to try debian woody with >> ratpoison. I will probably try other WMs before I'm done though. >> > Joining two posts, you don't have to go that far! > > Surely debian woody and and some of the previously mentioned blankers > would be cheaper than the rat poison.:-) > > Probably safer too. > I have settled (for the moment) on woody with fvwm2. I had to install xserver-svga in order to get a clean display on my Acer Extensa 367D with NeoMagic video (NM2097). The last major hurdle is networking. The Acer's window to the outside world is a USB LAN-Key. While I had KDE thrashing, I found that it is recognized and correctly identified by usbmgr, but the networking side does not see it. What am I missing? TIA Jim From vk6ksj at westnet.com.au Thu Jul 15 20:31:27 2004 From: vk6ksj at westnet.com.au (Kai) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 20:31:27 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] props to Harris Technology In-Reply-To: <1a49a4c1040715021947e2df8e@mail.gmail.com> References: <40F6096A.3080001@tehvand.com> <00ae01c46a28$feb3d150$0401050a@cel2000> <40F624F2.4030507@westnet.com.au> <40F62735.4010704@jensz.id.au> <40F62CEF.8080402@westnet.com.au> <40F62C6B.7000404@jensz.id.au> <40F63233.1080705@westnet.com.au> <40F64837.9050304@postnewspapers.com.au> <1a49a4c1040715021947e2df8e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <40F6791F.8040702@westnet.com.au> Nathan D wrote: > On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 17:02:47 +0800, Craig Ringer > wrote: > >>I was forced to buy a Billion ADSL modem for work (!!) recently, because >>our trusty Alcatel SpeedTouch Pro was stone cold dead on Monday morning >>and that's all I could get on short notice. I was astonished - it took >>me one minute to unpack it and get it hooked up, another minute to >>connect to it, 10 seconds to configure it for bridging, two minutes to >>figure out I really only need to do what I'd done in those 10 seconds, >>and then I was up and running. It's been 100% rock solid ever since. >> >>So ... I'm impressed. I keep on hearing people saying good things about >>them, but I'm used to people saying good things about anything nasty but >>cheap. In this case, at least in bridging mode, they seem pretty >>impressive. I have heard about problems with their PPPoE client, but ... >>doesn't bother me :-) > > After hearing the good things about Billion, I bought one and waited > for my exchange to be enabled a bit over a year ago. I played with > the modem while waiting for the line to be activated and then put it > into bridging mode as soon as ADSL was alive. A bit over a year later > with the Billion 711CE and a ipcop/smoothwall firewall and I could not > be happier. > A friend has just got a 504G through iiNet and has had to give it a > reset twice so far to get it back in action. I'm yet to have a look > at it to see if I can help fix it at all. > > regards, > Nathan D. In late 2002 I bought the first series of BIPAC 711CE101's from Computer Cash 'n' Carry in Leederville and considering how many brownouts and other power problems we have at my place I'm happy it's still working well. The power at our place (any maybe in the whole town ?) isn't very reliable, especially in the wet season. I'm gunna buy a UPS when I get home 'cause all those hard shutdowns can't be doing any good. A lot of people told me I was an idiot for buying a Billion, but I'm happy with my purchase ! Now, to keep on track with credit where credit's due, the day before I left Perth for Sweden I bought an HP NX9010 from HT in Osborne Park. I had tried for about 8 weeks to get a lappy from Trinix but the staff member I was dealing with was hard to get hold of, their supplier kept giving them different shipping dates and I needed something before I left the country, three days before leaving Broome I contacted Kyle (?) from Harris and told him I wanted an NX9010 and how fast could he get one...we had this lappy confirmed, on hold and waiting for me before I left town - ready to pick up when I got to Perth. Excellent service and I'll be going back there again if I need anything. Cheers Kai -- currently in S?dert?lje, Stockholm, Sverige From nofixed at westnet.com.au Thu Jul 15 20:37:22 2004 From: nofixed at westnet.com.au (Jim Householder) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 20:37:22 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] props to Harris Technology In-Reply-To: <40F66A09.7080905@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <40F6096A.3080001@tehvand.com> <00ae01c46a28$feb3d150$0401050a@cel2000> <40F624F2.4030507@westnet.com.au> <40F62735.4010704@jensz.id.au> <40F62CEF.8080402@westnet.com.au> <40F62C6B.7000404@jensz.id.au> <40F63233.1080705@westnet.com.au> <40F633D7.2040408@postnewspapers.com.au> <40F65F06.4040502@westnet.com.au> <40F66A09.7080905@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <40F67A82.4050102@westnet.com.au> I'm using an NB1300+4, and seem to lose the connection to WestNet about once a fortnight. I have been cycling the power to restore service, but recently it occurred to me that all I really needed to do is log into the management site on it and reconnect. I'll try that next time... Also, the first/only time I connected the laptop I used the IP address currently in use, but its machine (P-II) was powered down. It appeared to stuff the modem royally. No connection, and after entering username & password, all I got for a configuration page was an empty page frame. I had to press the reset button and reconfigure it to get going again. The connection attempt was with RH 7.3 installed. Jim BTW I forgot to mention in my previous post that the laptop's kernel is now debian's 2.4.18-bf2.4. From caston at arach.net.au Thu Jul 15 20:45:00 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 20:45:00 +0800 Subject: [OT] What is this PLUG "grumpy old men club"? [was: Re: [plug] supressing JUST newline echo] In-Reply-To: <20040715020033.GB28136@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <40F53FA3.1080405@postnewspapers.com.au> <40F54203.8050807@postnewspapers.com.au> <1089815784.2040.43.camel@localhost> <20040715020033.GB28136@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <1089895500.2153.2.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2004-07-15 at 10:00, James Devenish wrote: > In message <1089815784.2040.43.camel at localhost> > on Wed, Jul 14, 2004 at 10:36:24PM +0800, Chris Caston wrote: > > Careful Craig or you'll end up as another member of our grumpy > > old men club. > > ?!?!?! Since it sounds like you and Craig and I are probably within 6 > months of each other (unless Craig is a year different or something, I > can't remember), I have the following urgent and critical questions: > > - Why was there no smiley at the end of your post? > - Am I eligible to enter "grumpy old men club"? > - Am I "over the hill"? > - Who else is in the grumpy old men club? > - How can you been an "old man" given that Harry must be at least 5 > times your age!!* ;-) > > * Now I guess I'm neither grumpy nor old, just "endangered" ;-) > It's a joke. Once when my dad was between jobs and having a whine about the high taxes in this country I told him about the club it looked like he was going to join. I now use it on anyone regardless of their age. > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From patrick at tehvand.com Thu Jul 15 21:40:48 2004 From: patrick at tehvand.com (Patrick Tehvand) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 21:40:48 +0800 Subject: [plug] Ftp daemons (risk of flame war high) Message-ID: <40F68960.9020501@tehvand.com> Hello all. I have been using wu-ftp forever. But with our new debian server I am greeted with the opportunity to check out others. What do you guys use for ftp daemons and reasons is what Im after I guess. cheers Patrick From nima at it.net.au Thu Jul 15 23:12:48 2004 From: nima at it.net.au (Nima Talebi) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 23:12:48 +0800 Subject: [plug] Ftp daemons (risk of flame war high) In-Reply-To: <40F68960.9020501@tehvand.com> References: <40F68960.9020501@tehvand.com> Message-ID: <1089904368.4478.20.camel@playboy> I think of something like a FTP server, as a FTP Server. If it works and you like it, why do you want to change? Like you, I have used proftpd, not much else, basically because it has done what I want. Hence I have not looked for anything else. Are you bored? :) Nima On Thu, 2004-07-15 at 21:40, Patrick Tehvand wrote: > Hello all. I have been using wu-ftp forever. But with our new debian > server I am greeted with the opportunity to check out others. > > What do you guys use for ftp daemons and reasons is what Im after I guess. > > cheers > Patrick > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From hippo at sdf.lonestar.org Thu Jul 15 23:36:44 2004 From: hippo at sdf.lonestar.org (Michal Wirski) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 15:36:44 GMT Subject: [plug] post installfest talk Message-ID: <200407151536.i6FFai8s026478@sdf.lonestar.org> I would like to conduct the post install fest talk. The sooner I get a response informing if my offer has been accepted or denied, the better. As such a talk will have to be distribution nuetral and tailored in such a way that will enable users to be able to learn to think for themselves under Linux, the talk will require alot of preparation time. Thank you in advance. (p.s. I have had formal UNIX training at university.) From fostware at westnet.com.au Fri Jul 16 06:52:29 2004 From: fostware at westnet.com.au (Craig Foster) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 06:52:29 +0800 Subject: [plug] Bridging in ADSL modems In-Reply-To: <40F62CD2.4030007@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <20040715225247.85AFD79C6@spark.plug.linux.org.au> > -----Original Message----- > From: plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au > [mailto:plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au] On Behalf Of Craig Ringer > Sent: Thursday, 15 July 2004 3:06 PM > To: plug at plug.linux.org.au > Subject: Re: [plug] Bridging in ADSL modems > > > Running your own PPPoE client also gives you better control > of packet queuing and things like that. I've found it very > helpful when trying to keep latency down on interactive > traffic while bulk data transfers are running - especially > when combined with a good QoS setup. You guys run QuickCut as well don't you... Urgh... Typically 30MB HTTP form POST... > It's also much easier to tell at a glance what's wrong with > your 'net connection. 'tail /var/log/messages' is rather > easier than "examine blinking lights in an attempt to figure > out what's going on." "Ah, WiredCity isn't your problem, the ADSL can't talk to the South Perth exchange. It says so here in the logs..." True story about Telstra never setting the codes properly on a ADSL port, but the linux box running the connection for over a year before a problem actually occurred. I love text logs ^_^ > -- > Craig Ringer CraigF From ccornish at eftel.com.au Fri Jul 16 09:44:05 2004 From: ccornish at eftel.com.au (Chris Cornish) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 09:44:05 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] props to Harris Technology In-Reply-To: <40F63233.1080705@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: I setup a netgear 1300 with a sonic wall attached in bridged mode today for a customer very happy with the combo easy setup and very solid Regards chris -----Original Message----- From: plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au [mailto:plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au] On Behalf Of ranime Sent: Thursday, 15 July 2004 3:29 PM To: plug at plug.linux.org.au Subject: Re: [plug] [OT] props to Harris Technology Thanks, I understand a lot more now about 'bridged mode' than I did yesterday. Ben, your D-link DSL-500 ? i have been looking at D-link DSL504G, that has 4 eth ports. anyone know the difference in the 'G' DSL 504 or DSL504G ? could not find any info relating to this on the web sites . Also any veiws on the Dynalink RTA-770 Dynalink RTA-300 Netgear DG834 I have just discovered that the local exchange is only 100mtrs away, looking good, so now is the time for me to apply for ADSL ! Ben Jensz wrote: > ranime wrote: > >> Thank you Ben, >> So, the way I understand it now from what you have said is that, >> if the modem router handles the authentication/logon-passwd etc, then >> no need for 'bridged mode' ? >> > Pretty much. But it depends, some people like to use their Linux box to > do it, especially with some cheaper ADSL hardware as it can be a bit > unreliable with its authentication at times (even though it works fine > in bridged mode). But some ADSL hardware works fine with the ADSL > router handling the authentication. Personally I have a D-Link DSL-500 > and its fine.. I never have any problems with that and I use that to > handle the authentication on my ADSL connection. > >> Is the security risk any different with or without it ? >> > Depends who you ask. :) > >> also, is the following correct ? >> If the modem router has or has not got a built in firewall >> NAT or no NAT (wich is not a true firewall) >> you could still configure and use shorwall etc... with or without >> 'bridged mode' ? >> > You can, but you'd generally put the ADSL router into bridged mode and > probably get the shorewall box to do the authentication. > > > / Ben > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > _______________________________________________ PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.713 / Virus Database: 469 - Release Date: 30/06/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.713 / Virus Database: 469 - Release Date: 30/06/2004 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3496 bytes Desc: not available URL: From John.Usher at perth.maptek.com.au Fri Jul 16 11:02:15 2004 From: John.Usher at perth.maptek.com.au (John Usher (Maptek)) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 11:02:15 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] props to Harris Technology Message-ID: <20E0F651F8B82F45ABCBACC58A2D995B564535@mexper1> >-----Original Message----- >From: plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au [mailto:plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au] On Behalf Of Jim Householder >I'm using an NB1300+4, and seem to lose the connection to WestNet about once a fortnight. I have been >cycling the power to restore service, but recently it occurred to me that all I really needed to do is log >into the management site on it and reconnect. I'll try that next time... My NB1300+4 regularly locks up hard once every one to two weeks. I can't get to the management interface. I just power cycle and it all comes good. From jjohnson at sirrah-comp.com Fri Jul 16 11:12:30 2004 From: jjohnson at sirrah-comp.com (Joel Johnson) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 11:12:30 +0800 Subject: [plug] Sparc and xbox accounts Message-ID: <011801c46ae2$bbbf0df0$b501a8c0@joelj> > As per my last post to Senectus, I need to get more organised about > this!. For now, if you email me a preferred username, I'll > double-check you've paid up and create you an account :) Bernard, wasn't actually asking for an account .. was asking what they were for? Joel From zombie at penguincare.com.au Fri Jul 16 12:11:35 2004 From: zombie at penguincare.com.au (Matt Kemner) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 12:11:35 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Sparc and xbox accounts In-Reply-To: <011801c46ae2$bbbf0df0$b501a8c0@joelj> Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Jul 2004, quoth Joel Johnson: > Bernard, wasn't actually asking for an account .. was asking what they were > for? They're useful if you want a shell account on a remote network for testing your firewall, or doing traceroutes when you think your ISP is screwy, or if you are coding and want to see how portable your code is by trying to compile it on the sparc, or even if you just want an @plug.linux.org.au email address. Bandwidth (and mains power) is sponsored by Linux IT, please don't abuse it. Regards, - Matt From senectus at gmail.com Fri Jul 16 12:47:07 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 12:47:07 +0800 Subject: [plug] One time special offer for 200gig PATA drives Message-ID: We haven't been able to get a server through commander due to various reasons, so I hit upon the idea of buy a big Hard drive and using it for the install fest and then taking it home afterwards for my own... collections :-P I've managed to get a once off nice price for Seagate 200gig, PATA-100, 7200 rpm IDE hard drives for $185.00 I know this is short notice but if anyone wants one (it'd be appreciated if we could borrow it for the weekend.) I am taking orders for the next 30 mins. (till 1:15 pm) Cash only and payment required by Sunday please. Thanks. -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From patrick at tehvand.com Fri Jul 16 13:04:40 2004 From: patrick at tehvand.com (Patrick Tehvand) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 13:04:40 +0800 Subject: [plug] debian - perl question. Message-ID: <40F761E8.1000100@tehvand.com> From Perl on a redhat7.3 box creates and uses Berkeley hash files version 7, which is from Berkeley DB 3. All the db_ commands are aliased to db3_ commands. DB_File is 1.75. From Perl on a debian 3.0r2 box creates and uses Berkeley has files version 5, which is from Berkeley DB 2 or 1 (not sure, probably 1). I manually aliased the db_ commands like the redhat box DB_File is 1.75. Both servers are fine with reading the db files from the command line; > managed:/data/scripts# db3_stat -d regusers.txt > 61561 Hash magic number. > 7 Hash version number. (etc etc) However, the debian box cannot read the Berkeley DB 3 files from within Perl if I copy them from redhat box. > managed:/home/data/scripts# perl > use DB_File; > > $REGUSERS = tie (%regusers, "DB_File", "regusers.txt", O_RDONLY, 0444, $DB_HASH) > or print "could not open user database for RPoL, error was: ", $!, " at line ", __LINE__, "\n"; > ^D > could not open user database for RPoL, error was: at line 4 Help? I am assuming it is a perl-cpan issue and as I know nothing about debian's packaging system other than dpkg --list and all that. versions between the boxen are fine. cheers Patrick From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Fri Jul 16 13:12:59 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 13:12:59 +0800 Subject: [plug] Bridging in ADSL modems In-Reply-To: <20040715225247.85AFD79C6@spark.plug.linux.org.au> References: <20040715225247.85AFD79C6@spark.plug.linux.org.au> Message-ID: <1089954778.21874.10.camel@rasputin.localnet> On Fri, 2004-07-16 at 06:52, Craig Foster wrote: > You guys run QuickCut as well don't you... > Urgh... Typically 30MB HTTP form POST... Yep. QuickCut is ugly in a lot of ways, mostly when it comes to user interface. The back end is pure bliss, however, and saves so much time and pain it's just incredible. I'm surprised you'd be sending 30MB jobs. One of our ~A3+ pages, in full colour and with lots of graphics, rarely tops 4MB. Then again, we're printing on newsprint with a pretty rough screen and low resolution. My pet hate with QuickCut is the MSIE-only interface. At least it works for a user running as 'restricted user' under WinXP, unlike some sites I've seen. Gotta love sites that need a plugin that can't be installed as restricted user... but won't work except when running as the user it was installed under. I love UNIX 'default to least permissions' user security. > > It's also much easier to tell at a glance what's wrong with > > your 'net connection. 'tail /var/log/messages' is rather > > easier than "examine blinking lights in an attempt to figure > > out what's going on." > > "Ah, WiredCity isn't your problem, the ADSL can't talk to the South Perth > exchange. It says so here in the logs..." I keep on confusing ISP tech support by being able to do things like probe for DSLAMs ( pppoe -A ) and watch PPPoE session negotiation traffic (tethereal). It seems pretty basic to me, but lots of support types don't seem to understand that it's possible, and I've been told on more than one occasion that I'm obviously wrong because it's impossible to do that. Hmm. -- Craig Ringer From easygoing at aijv.com.au Fri Jul 16 13:31:13 2004 From: easygoing at aijv.com.au (landerson) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 13:31:13 +0800 Subject: [plug] Trying to locate "vgagl.h" Message-ID: <20040716133113.79cf7184.easygoing@aijv.com.au> Dear pluggers I am hoping to restore an old games program, it was converted to run under linux (1993-4), compiled using gcc 2.4.5, I believe I have all the source codes. The program uses svgalib & the framebuffer-library. There are knowdoubt many changes that have taken place since it's original linux conversion & therefore adjustments will need to be carried out. Needed to install svgalib When I do a "make ...." get a series of errors but the one of current interest is #include no such file or directory from all I have read the file "vgagl.h is part of svgalib but haven't been able to locate it, where do I find it??? & get it to function as it should. How should the command line be structured so the results from a "make ...." command be sent to file for analysis, this does make life a little easier. At the moment 'cann't see the wood for the trees' when reading some of the "man or info files" Thanks Laurie From ranime at westnet.com.au Fri Jul 16 13:38:49 2004 From: ranime at westnet.com.au (ranime) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 13:38:49 +0800 Subject: [plug] Bridging in ADSL modems In-Reply-To: <1089954778.21874.10.camel@rasputin.localnet> References: <20040715225247.85AFD79C6@spark.plug.linux.org.au> <1089954778.21874.10.camel@rasputin.localnet> Message-ID: <40F769E9.3070300@westnet.com.au> This is what I want to achive, ADSL modem/router with 4 eth switch supplies internet access to four linux pc's. Each computer can access the internet, and each other using NFS or samba. Each computer is running shorwall firewall. The IP addresses of the computers are static assigned. Will this work ? also, from what I understand, is that if the modem is not in 'bridged mode' then the modem handles the authentication etc.. so how can i monitor the internet traffic from any computer on the network without having a ppp-oe client running on the computer ? and being that the adsl modem/router is not in visual sight. Have I misunderstood how this is supposed to work ? Thanks again Max.... From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Fri Jul 16 13:53:26 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 13:53:26 +0800 Subject: [plug] Bridging in ADSL modems In-Reply-To: <40F769E9.3070300@westnet.com.au> References: <20040715225247.85AFD79C6@spark.plug.linux.org.au> <1089954778.21874.10.camel@rasputin.localnet> <40F769E9.3070300@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <1089957205.21874.29.camel@rasputin.localnet> On Fri, 2004-07-16 at 13:38, ranime wrote: > This is what I want to achive, > > ADSL modem/router with 4 eth switch > supplies internet access to four linux pc's. > > Each computer can access the internet, > and each other using NFS or samba. > > Each computer is running shorwall firewall. > The IP addresses of the computers are static assigned. > > Will this work ? So long as you pick IP addresses in the range the DSL modem is expecting (since most assume you'll be using DHCP), yes that should be fine. In fact, it's pretty much the default configuration for using a DSL router. You should be able to plug in the router, plug your computers into the router, set your ISP username and password in its web interface, and have everything just work. Note that all your PCs will have private IP addresses, usually in the 192.168.x.x range, and it will not be possible to connect to them from the outside world. Most DSL modems will let you designate one PC to receive connection attempts from the outside world, so that it appears to "be" the world-reachable IP address as far as the rest of the world is concerned - but that's the best you'll get. This will be true no matter how you set up your DSL, though, unless you get an expensive connection with multiple IP addresses (and usually a very expensive bit of Cisco hardware to go with it). If you don't care about connecting to your computers from elsewhere on the internet, you can totally ignore the above paragraph. > also, from what I understand, is that if the modem > is not in 'bridged mode' then the modem handles the authentication > etc.. That's right - it handles the PPPoE session with your ISP that carries your Internet traffic between your network and your ISP, and it does the network address translation (NAT) required to have multiple computers share one world-visible IPv4 address. The DSL modem becomes your network's gateway router to the rest of the Internet. > so how can i monitor the internet traffic from any computer on > the network without having a ppp-oe client running on the computer ? Unfortunately, the answer to that is usually "with considerable difficulty, if at all." :-( Some DSL modems will let you use SNMP to get at least some traffic statistics. I haven't seen one with a web interface or custom SNMP MIB that could give you really useful traffic stats, though. There's very little substitute for the control provided by iptables, and the easy monitoring of [t]ethereal, gkrellm, and etherape. This is one of the many reasons I prefer to use a modem in bridged mode and run a Linux firewall. It's considerably more complicated to do it that way, but it gives much more flexibility. Of course, it depends on what you want to montor. If you only want total received and transmitted bytes, then SNMP (if your modem supports it) should be able to tell you that much. You could then use MRTG on a PC to graph the traffic and provide the graphs as a web page if you wanted. On the other hand, if you want per-PC traffic meters or to track traffic by port, that's probably not going to be something the modem can do. If all you want is to determine the connection state - "connected" or "disconnected" - then most modems web interfaces will let you do that much. -- Craig Ringer From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Fri Jul 16 13:58:48 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 13:58:48 +0800 Subject: [plug] Trying to locate "vgagl.h" In-Reply-To: <20040716133113.79cf7184.easygoing@aijv.com.au> References: <20040716133113.79cf7184.easygoing@aijv.com.au> Message-ID: <1089957527.21874.34.camel@rasputin.localnet> On Fri, 2004-07-16 at 13:31, landerson wrote: > from all I have read the file "vgagl.h is part of svgalib but haven't been able to > locate it, where do I find it??? & get it to function as it should. http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?word=vgagl.h&searchmode=searchfiles&case=insensitive&version=stable&arch=i386 http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?word=vgagl.h&searchmode=searchfiles&case=insensitive&version=testing&arch=i386 > How should the command line be structured so the results from a "make ...." > command be sent to file for analysis, this does make life a little easier. make 2>&1 | tee /tmp/makelog > At the moment 'cann't see the wood for the trees' when reading some of the "man or > info files" I'm afraid that's something you'll probably have to get used to. It seems to be the tradition in UNIX documentation. I'm currently having the same experience reading the ncurses documentation, wanting to know how to do one simple thing... -- Craig Ringer From hesuma at bigpond.net.au Fri Jul 16 14:49:00 2004 From: hesuma at bigpond.net.au (Helmut Gerhold) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 14:49:00 +0800 Subject: [plug] Speedtouch 530 driver Message-ID: <000001c46b00$fa34c1b0$0601a8c0@hesuma.local> Hi, I am pretty new to linux and follow your e-mail conversation with interest for some time now, not that I understand much of it! I am looking forward to come to the installfest on Sunday and hopefully learn a lot more about Linux. I have actually installed Suse 9.1 pro on a 350MHz PC but that is it as far as it goes and not much time to look through the manuals. I can connect to the intranet but cannot connect to the Canon S520. The reason I write is to see if someone has got a CD with the driver for an Alcatel Speedtouch 530 ADSL modem as my customer has lost it, so he says. Looking forward to meet you guys on Sunday. Regards, Helmut Gerhold -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From quadfour at iinet.net.au Fri Jul 16 14:58:46 2004 From: quadfour at iinet.net.au (quadfour at iinet.net.au) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 14:58:46 +0800 Subject: [plug] Speedtouch 530 driver In-Reply-To: <000001c46b00$fa34c1b0$0601a8c0@hesuma.local> References: <000001c46b00$fa34c1b0$0601a8c0@hesuma.local> Message-ID: <1089961126.40f77ca633aea@mail.iinet.net.au> Quoting Helmut Gerhold : > Hi, I am pretty new to linux and follow your e-mail conversation with > interest for some time now, not that I understand much of it! > > I am looking forward to come to the installfest on Sunday and hopefully > learn a lot more about Linux. I have actually installed Suse 9.1 pro on > a 350MHz PC but that is it as far as it goes and not much time to look > through the manuals. I can connect to the intranet but cannot connect to > the Canon S520. > > The reason I write is to see if someone has got a CD with the driver for > an Alcatel Speedtouch 530 ADSL modem as my customer has lost it, so he > says. > > Looking forward to meet you guys on Sunday. The 530 didn't have a driver as far as I was aware. Its got a built in web server configurator thingy doesn it? Regards Michael Collard From hesuma at bigpond.net.au Fri Jul 16 15:39:10 2004 From: hesuma at bigpond.net.au (Helmut Gerhold) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 15:39:10 +0800 Subject: [plug] Speedtouch 530 driver In-Reply-To: <1089961126.40f77ca633aea@mail.iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <000a01c46b07$fbbf5520$0601a8c0@hesuma.local> That's correct, but the manual (downloaded) states you need the driver disk to initialize the modem using usb connection. I'll give it a try using the eth connection. Thanks, Helmut Gerhold -----Original Message----- From: plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au [mailto:plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au] On Behalf Of quadfour at iinet.net.au Sent: Friday, 16 July 2004 2:59 PM To: plug at plug.linux.org.au Subject: Re: [plug] Speedtouch 530 driver Quoting Helmut Gerhold : > Hi, I am pretty new to linux and follow your e-mail conversation with > interest for some time now, not that I understand much of it! > > I am looking forward to come to the installfest on Sunday and hopefully > learn a lot more about Linux. I have actually installed Suse 9.1 pro on > a 350MHz PC but that is it as far as it goes and not much time to look > through the manuals. I can connect to the intranet but cannot connect to > the Canon S520. > > The reason I write is to see if someone has got a CD with the driver for > an Alcatel Speedtouch 530 ADSL modem as my customer has lost it, so he > says. > > Looking forward to meet you guys on Sunday. The 530 didn't have a driver as far as I was aware. Its got a built in web server configurator thingy doesn it? Regards Michael Collard _______________________________________________ PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au From leon at lostrealm.com Fri Jul 16 15:55:09 2004 From: leon at lostrealm.com (Leon Blackwell) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 15:55:09 +0800 Subject: [plug] Speedtouch 530 driver In-Reply-To: <000a01c46b07$fbbf5520$0601a8c0@hesuma.local> References: <1089961126.40f77ca633aea@mail.iinet.net.au> <000a01c46b07$fbbf5520$0601a8c0@hesuma.local> Message-ID: <20040716075509.GB30097@grail.lostrealm.com> On Fri, Jul 16, 2004 at 03:39:10PM +0800, Helmut Gerhold wrote: > That's correct, but the manual (downloaded) states you need the driver > disk to initialize the modem using usb connection. Mr Google suggests the following: http://helpdesk.invitel.hu/download/speedtouch530.exe -- Leon Blackwell | A nice thing about not planning is http://www.lostrealm.com/ | that failure comes as a complete jabber:lionfire at lostrealm.com | surprise and is not preceded by long | periods of worry and depression. From hesuma at bigpond.net.au Fri Jul 16 16:23:29 2004 From: hesuma at bigpond.net.au (Helmut Gerhold) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 16:23:29 +0800 Subject: [plug] Speedtouch 530 driver In-Reply-To: <20040716075509.GB30097@grail.lostrealm.com> Message-ID: <000b01c46b0e$2d0430a0$0601a8c0@hesuma.local> Thank you all for your help. Helmut -----Original Message----- From: plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au [mailto:plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au] On Behalf Of Leon Blackwell Sent: Friday, 16 July 2004 3:55 PM To: plug at plug.linux.org.au Subject: Re: [plug] Speedtouch 530 driver On Fri, Jul 16, 2004 at 03:39:10PM +0800, Helmut Gerhold wrote: > That's correct, but the manual (downloaded) states you need the driver > disk to initialize the modem using usb connection. Mr Google suggests the following: http://helpdesk.invitel.hu/download/speedtouch530.exe -- Leon Blackwell | A nice thing about not planning is http://www.lostrealm.com/ | that failure comes as a complete jabber:lionfire at lostrealm.com | surprise and is not preceded by long | periods of worry and depression. _______________________________________________ PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au From bernard at blackham.com.au Fri Jul 16 20:18:39 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 20:18:39 +0800 Subject: [plug] Call for chefs at the Installfest Message-ID: <20040716121839.GC2482@blackham.com.au> If anybody really doesn't feel like dealing with Linux all day, we do need people to help out with running the BBQ. Just involves cooking and selling sausages and drinks. The BBQ will be running from around 11:30 till 1:30pm or thereabouts. If you are interested or can persuade anybody into being interested, please email installfest at plug.linux.org.au :) Thanks! Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Fri Jul 16 20:28:59 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 20:28:59 +0800 Subject: [plug] Call for chefs at the Installfest In-Reply-To: <20040716121839.GC2482@blackham.com.au> References: <20040716121839.GC2482@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: <1089980939.21874.151.camel@rasputin.localnet> On Fri, 2004-07-16 at 20:18, Bernard Blackham wrote: > If anybody really doesn't feel like dealing with Linux all day, we > do need people to help out with running the BBQ. Not too many chefs, for once? -- Craig Ringer From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Fri Jul 16 20:31:47 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 20:31:47 +0800 Subject: [plug] Call for chefs at the Installfest In-Reply-To: <1089980939.21874.151.camel@rasputin.localnet> References: <20040716121839.GC2482@blackham.com.au> <1089980939.21874.151.camel@rasputin.localnet> Message-ID: <20040716123147.GD872@cp.yi.org> Craig Ringer wrote: > > If anybody really doesn't feel like dealing with Linux all day, we > > do need people to help out with running the BBQ. > > Not too many chefs, for once? While normally too many chefs spoil the broth, in this case too much broth spoils the chef :-P CP From sboak at westnet.com.au Fri Jul 16 20:54:24 2004 From: sboak at westnet.com.au (Steve Boak) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 20:54:24 +0800 Subject: [plug] VOIP - I'm connected! Message-ID: <200407162054.24261.sboak@westnet.com.au> Free phonecalls, here I come :-) I received my IP phone today, a Grandstream Budgetone 100 from iTech. It took all of five minutes to set it up using the one-page internal web form, get a number from Free World Dialup, now all I need is someone to talk to... For those interested, the phone came in black, not the white that was advertised (I don't mind), wrapped in bubble-wrap in a flimsy cardboard box. It seems well made, looks and feels exactly like a 'normal' phone, except it plugs into a network cable instead of a phone line. There was no instructions of any kind with the unit, but a google search of 'grandstream budge-tone 100' gave me the current 36 page user manual on the top of the first page. The only thing I needed the manual for was to find the default login password for the internal webpage, and everything I needed to know about configuration was on the FWD site. All local network configuration was completely automatic via dhcp. And yes, it does seem to work seemlessly over a NAT enabled firewall, once I poked a hole at udp port 5060 for the SIP stream. Call quality seems excellent, although with a noticeable (but not bad) delay when talking to the FWD echo server as a test. I assume this would be much less apparent in a real conversation. All in all, a definite thumbs-up :-) Steve -- Free World Dial number 454566 - Via 128k ISDN - 24hrs "Most men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and continue on as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill From jjohnson at sirrah-comp.com Fri Jul 16 21:14:22 2004 From: jjohnson at sirrah-comp.com (Joel Johnson) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 21:14:22 +0800 Subject: [plug] Mandrake mirrors Message-ID: <002401c46b36$d2624c80$0201a8c0@home> Just installed Mandrake 9.0 on an older laptop (Pentium 1). Mandrake 10 didn't want to install so reverted to the older version. Now trying to do an update but it seems that the Mandrake 9.0 mirror on 3FL is no longer maintained. Does anyone know if I have to use a mirror for Mandrake 9.0 or can I use the Mandrake 9.2 mirror on 3FL? Alternatively, does anyone know of any Mandrake 9.0 mirrors in the WAIX neighbourhood? TIA Joel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vk6ksj at westnet.com.au Fri Jul 16 21:34:40 2004 From: vk6ksj at westnet.com.au (Kai) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 21:34:40 +0800 Subject: [plug] Mandrake mirrors In-Reply-To: <002401c46b36$d2624c80$0201a8c0@home> References: <002401c46b36$d2624c80$0201a8c0@home> Message-ID: <40F7D970.4060207@westnet.com.au> Joel Johnson wrote: > Just installed Mandrake 9.0 on an older laptop (Pentium 1). Mandrake 10 > didn't want to install so reverted to the older version. Now trying to > do an update but it seems that the Mandrake 9.0 mirror on 3FL is no > longer maintained. > > Does anyone know if I have to use a mirror for Mandrake 9.0 or can I use > the Mandrake 9.2 mirror on 3FL? > > Alternatively, does anyone know of any Mandrake 9.0 mirrors in the WAIX > neighbourhood? > > TIA > > Joel Hi Joel, I can't help you with the mirror question, but can you let me know what laptop you have and why Mdk 10 won't install on it ? I have an HP NX9010 (http://www.ht.com.au/Scripts/xworks.exe?PART:M1158#Tof), I've google'd and haven't found anything usefull. James Budworth suggested reburning CD 1 at the lowest speed and see if that works, I downloaded and reburned the ISO at my burner's lowest speed but I still can't get Mdk 10 Official to get past the initial install stage - it hangs at the end of hardware detection. I would download and burn Mdk 9.2 but I don't have any burnable CD's with me and I haven't got around to buying any. Tomorrow I leave for Karlstad and a mate there has Intel based hardware I can test my installations CD's on to see if they work. He also has a burner and prolly CD's so I might give Mdk 9.2 a go from his place. Cheers Kai -- currently in S?dert?lje, Stockholm, Sverige From sboak at westnet.com.au Fri Jul 16 21:46:35 2004 From: sboak at westnet.com.au (Steve Boak) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 21:46:35 +0800 Subject: [plug] VOIP - I'm connected! - Correction In-Reply-To: <200407162054.24261.sboak@westnet.com.au> References: <200407162054.24261.sboak@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <200407162146.35649.sboak@westnet.com.au> On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 08:54 pm, Steve Boak wrote: > Free phonecalls, here I come :-) > > I received my IP phone today, a Grandstream Budgetone 100 from iTech. It Damn! Wrong 'Tech'! I got it from TechTopia, here in Perth. Steve -- Free World Dial number 454566 - Via 128k ISDN - 24hrs "Most men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and continue on as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill From renene at barekoala.net Fri Jul 16 21:57:30 2004 From: renene at barekoala.net (Rennie) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 21:57:30 +0800 Subject: [plug] Mandrake mirrors In-Reply-To: <002401c46b36$d2624c80$0201a8c0@home> References: <002401c46b36$d2624c80$0201a8c0@home> Message-ID: <200407162157.30402.renene@barekoala.net> On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 09:14 pm, Joel Johnson wrote: > Just installed Mandrake 9.0 on an older laptop (Pentium 1). Mandrake 10 > didn't want to install so reverted to the older version. Now trying to do > an update but it seems that the Mandrake 9.0 mirror on 3FL is no longer > maintained. > > Does anyone know if I have to use a mirror for Mandrake 9.0 or can I use > the Mandrake 9.2 mirror on 3FL? > > Alternatively, does anyone know of any Mandrake 9.0 mirrors in the WAIX > neighbourhood? > > TIA > > Joel Try http://mirror.pacific.net.au/linux/Mandrakelinux/ and planetmirror also. I not sure if either of these are on WAIX, but I can vaguely remember the WestNet WAIX info site referring to one of them. Cheers. Rennie From nofixed at westnet.com.au Sat Jul 17 00:07:37 2004 From: nofixed at westnet.com.au (Jim Householder) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 00:07:37 +0800 Subject: [plug] Mandrake mirrors In-Reply-To: <40F7D970.4060207@westnet.com.au> References: <002401c46b36$d2624c80$0201a8c0@home> <40F7D970.4060207@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <40F7FD49.1050007@westnet.com.au> Kai wrote: > Joel Johnson wrote: > >> Just installed Mandrake 9.0 on an older laptop (Pentium 1). Mandrake >> 10 didn't want to install so reverted to the older version. Now trying >> to do an update but it seems that the Mandrake 9.0 mirror on 3FL is no >> longer maintained. >> >> Does anyone know if I have to use a mirror for Mandrake 9.0 or can I >> use the Mandrake 9.2 mirror on 3FL? >> >> Alternatively, does anyone know of any Mandrake 9.0 mirrors in the >> WAIX neighbourhood? >> >> TIA >> >> Joel > > > Hi Joel, > > I can't help you with the mirror question, but can you let me know what > laptop you have and why Mdk 10 won't install on it ? > > I have an HP NX9010 > (http://www.ht.com.au/Scripts/xworks.exe?PART:M1158#Tof), I've google'd > and haven't found anything usefull. > > James Budworth suggested reburning CD 1 at the lowest speed and see if > that works, I downloaded and reburned the ISO at my burner's lowest > speed but I still can't get Mdk 10 Official to get past the initial > install stage - it hangs at the end of hardware detection. > > I would download and burn Mdk 9.2 but I don't have any burnable CD's > with me and I haven't got around to buying any. > > Tomorrow I leave for Karlstad and a mate there has Intel based hardware > I can test my installations CD's on to see if they work. He also has a > burner and prolly CD's so I might give Mdk 9.2 a go from his place. > > Cheers > Kai > I, having nothing better to do :-), am installing MDK 10 on my Acer in hopes it will recognize the USB LAN key. The initial try using the default install resulted in a blue screen with the standard 'X' cursor in the middle which responded nicely to the mouse, but otherwise hung. The second try, using the text-mode install, appears to be working. The "Installing" message box is now at 7%. Having become used to 15-minute installs on my desktop, I had forgotten the hour+ it used to take, and still takes on the Acer (200MHz). HTH Jim From jjohnson at westnet.com.au Sat Jul 17 00:12:19 2004 From: jjohnson at westnet.com.au (Joel Johnson) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 00:12:19 +0800 Subject: [plug] Mandrake mirrors References: <002401c46b36$d2624c80$0201a8c0@home> <40F7D970.4060207@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <005001c46b4f$accdbf90$0201a8c0@home> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kai" > Hi Joel, > > I can't help you with the mirror question, but can you let me know what > laptop you have and why Mdk 10 won't install on it ? > Kai, primary problem for me is that Mandrake 10 CDs don't have the appropriate USB image file on the disk despite the docs saying it is there. This is a known bug and has been reported on the Mandrake bug-reporting site. I managed to get it to start the installation using the PCMCIA image file using a PCMCIA CD drive but it started reporting lack of resources before it even got to the partitioning section. I have a Sharp PC-A250 - a Pentium 1 sub-notebook sort of like the Toshiba Prot?g?s so no built in CD or floppy. Under Mandrake 9.0 it was a dream to install. Has a Trident graphics chip so missed out on all of the "fun" of getting a nVidia chip working under X (past experiences with nVidia on Toshiba laptops). Joel From senectus at gmail.com Sat Jul 17 00:49:04 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 00:49:04 +0800 Subject: [plug] Call for chefs at the Installfest In-Reply-To: <20040716123147.GD872@cp.yi.org> References: <20040716121839.GC2482@blackham.com.au> <1089980939.21874.151.camel@rasputin.localnet> <20040716123147.GD872@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: I'll take my turn outside a bit.... On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 20:31:47 +0800, Cameron Patrick wrote: > Craig Ringer wrote: > > > > If anybody really doesn't feel like dealing with Linux all day, we > > > do need people to help out with running the BBQ. > > > > Not too many chefs, for once? > > While normally too many chefs spoil the broth, in this case too much > broth spoils the chef :-P > > CP > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From jjohnson at sirrah-comp.com Sat Jul 17 01:17:35 2004 From: jjohnson at sirrah-comp.com (Joel Johnson) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 01:17:35 +0800 Subject: [plug] Mandrake mirrors References: <002401c46b36$d2624c80$0201a8c0@home> <200407162157.30402.renene@barekoala.net> Message-ID: <007601c46b58$cbafb2c0$0201a8c0@home> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rennie" > Try http://mirror.pacific.net.au/linux/Mandrakelinux/ and planetmirror also. > > I not sure if either of these are on WAIX, but I can vaguely remember the > WestNet WAIX info site referring to one of them. Rennie, thanks for that. I checked on the WAIX site and found that Pacific is a WAIX member - which is lucky as there is around 500Mb worth of updates available for everything I have installed! Joel From billk at iinet.net.au Sat Jul 17 06:34:19 2004 From: billk at iinet.net.au (William Kenworthy) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 06:34:19 +0800 Subject: [plug] Mandrake mirrors In-Reply-To: <40F7D970.4060207@westnet.com.au> References: <002401c46b36$d2624c80$0201a8c0@home> <40F7D970.4060207@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <1090017259.11282.6.camel@rattus.Localdomain> Mandrake used to (I havent installed a binary distro for a log time now) have a way to turn hw detection off, and allow the necessary manual entry for devices. Did you try this, as well as checking if turning off ioapic and dma helped? BillK On Fri, 2004-07-16 at 21:34, Kai wrote: > Joel Johnson wrote: > > > Just installed Mandrake 9.0 on an older laptop (Pentium 1). Mandrake 10 > > didn't want to install so reverted to the older version. Now trying to > > From caston at arach.net.au Sat Jul 17 09:17:58 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 09:17:58 +0800 Subject: [plug] Call for chefs at the Installfest In-Reply-To: References: <20040716121839.GC2482@blackham.com.au> <1089980939.21874.151.camel@rasputin.localnet> <20040716123147.GD872@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <1090027078.2142.0.camel@localhost> On Sat, 2004-07-17 at 00:49, Senectus . wrote: > I'll take my turn outside a bit.... Should we organise a keg? > > On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 20:31:47 +0800, Cameron Patrick > wrote: > > Craig Ringer wrote: > > > > > > If anybody really doesn't feel like dealing with Linux all day, we > > > > do need people to help out with running the BBQ. > > > > > > Not too many chefs, for once? > > > > While normally too many chefs spoil the broth, in this case too much > > broth spoils the chef :-P > > > > CP > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > From senectus at gmail.com Sat Jul 17 09:14:50 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 09:14:50 +0800 Subject: [plug] Call for chefs at the Installfest In-Reply-To: <1090027078.2142.0.camel@localhost> References: <20040716121839.GC2482@blackham.com.au> <1089980939.21874.151.camel@rasputin.localnet> <20040716123147.GD872@cp.yi.org> <1090027078.2142.0.camel@localhost> Message-ID: *shrug* I can't stand beer.. so don't ask me.. :-P On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 09:17:58 +0800, Chris Caston wrote: > On Sat, 2004-07-17 at 00:49, Senectus . wrote: > > I'll take my turn outside a bit.... > > Should we organise a keg? > > wrote: > > > Craig Ringer wrote: > > > > > > > > If anybody really doesn't feel like dealing with Linux all day, we > > > > > do need people to help out with running the BBQ. > > > > > > > > Not too many chefs, for once? > > > > > > While normally too many chefs spoil the broth, in this case too much > > > broth spoils the chef :-P > > > > > > CP > -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From senectus at gmail.com Sat Jul 17 09:24:16 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 09:24:16 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backup of drives for installfest?? Message-ID: I don't remember getting an answer for this earlier.. so sorry if you have answered it already.. What are we using to "ghost" the PC's before we install stuff on them? I'm looking for a way to move my entire system over to the 200gig drive I bought.. and ghost for unix came up.. is this the tool we're using for the fest? -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Sat Jul 17 09:27:56 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 09:27:56 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backup of drives for installfest?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040717012756.GC16516@cp.yi.org> Senectus . wrote: > I don't remember getting an answer for this earlier.. so sorry if you > have answered it already.. > > What are we using to "ghost" the PC's before we install stuff on them? Partimage over NFS is my plan. (Alternatively, if someone can compile a partimage server that isn't broken, i.e. not the Debian packaged version, we could use the native partimage server which should achieve next to wire speed.) > I'm looking for a way to move my entire system over to the 200gig > drive I bought.. and ghost for unix came up.. is this the tool we're > using for the fest? No, I don't think so. Cameron. From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Sat Jul 17 09:56:30 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 09:56:30 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backup of drives for installfest?? In-Reply-To: <20040717012756.GC16516@cp.yi.org> References: <20040717012756.GC16516@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <200407170956.30984@death.2.spammers> On Saturday 17 July 2004 09:27, Cameron Patrick wrote: > Senectus . wrote: > > I don't remember getting an answer for this earlier.. so sorry if you > > have answered it already.. > > > > What are we using to "ghost" the PC's before we install stuff on them? > > Partimage over NFS is my plan. (Alternatively, if someone can compile > a partimage server that isn't broken, i.e. not the Debian packaged > version, we could use the native partimage server which should achieve > next to wire speed.) SysRescueCD contains partimage as well as QTparted to resize those nasty NTFS partitions to make dual-boot machines. Other tools include dump/restore, GNU parted, Sfdisk and a plethora of other filesystem tools. http://www.sysresccd.org/systools.en.php It's about 100MB of iso image. There are instructions on how to make a bootable USB stick from that. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Sat Jul 17 09:58:46 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 09:58:46 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backup of drives for installfest?? In-Reply-To: <20040717012756.GC16516@cp.yi.org> References: <20040717012756.GC16516@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <1090029525.27681.5.camel@rasputin.localnet> On Sat, 2004-07-17 at 09:27, Cameron Patrick wrote: > Partimage over NFS is my plan. (Alternatively, if someone can compile > a partimage server that isn't broken, i.e. not the Debian packaged > version, we could use the native partimage server which should achieve > next to wire speed.) Yep, my experience at CA is that it's really damnn fast, especially if you make sure to gzip the install images (much faster than uncompressed for any computer you're likely to encounter now). I only wish partimage had one of the super fast compression schemes as an option too. A static partimage server and client shouldn't be too difficult (well-behaved libraries permitting). I was able to built Partimage as a a local app for LTSP, so I figure a fairly portable static build shouldn't be too bad. When would you need them by - I'll see what I can do, but no promises because I'm very busy ATM. -- Craig Ringer From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Sat Jul 17 10:02:37 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 10:02:37 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backup of drives for installfest?? In-Reply-To: <200407170956.30984@death.2.spammers> References: <20040717012756.GC16516@cp.yi.org> <200407170956.30984@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <20040717020237.GD16516@cp.yi.org> Bernd Felsche wrote: > SysRescueCD contains partimage as well as QTparted to resize those > nasty NTFS partitions to make dual-boot machines. I know all about SysRescCD, I even hacked their initrd to make it work from our netboot CDs :-) Cameron. From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Sat Jul 17 10:03:58 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 10:03:58 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backup of drives for installfest?? In-Reply-To: <1090029525.27681.5.camel@rasputin.localnet> References: <20040717012756.GC16516@cp.yi.org> <1090029525.27681.5.camel@rasputin.localnet> Message-ID: <20040717020358.GE16516@cp.yi.org> Craig Ringer wrote: > On Sat, 2004-07-17 at 09:27, Cameron Patrick wrote: > > > Partimage over NFS is my plan. (Alternatively, if someone can compile > > a partimage server that isn't broken, i.e. not the Debian packaged > > version, we could use the native partimage server which should achieve > > next to wire speed.) > > Yep, my experience at CA is that it's really damnn fast, especially if > you make sure to gzip the install images (much faster than uncompressed > for any computer you're likely to encounter now). I only wish partimage > had one of the super fast compression schemes as an option too. Pretty sure it has LZF compression these days. Will have to make sure that the one on SysRescCD supports it too though. > A static partimage server and client shouldn't be too difficult > (well-behaved libraries permitting). I was able to built Partimage as a > a local app for LTSP, so I figure a fairly portable static build > shouldn't be too bad. When would you need them by - I'll see what I can > do, but no promises because I'm very busy ATM. Ideally today for the installfest tomorrow. If you reckon they're easy I might have a shot at compiling them tonight ... Cameron. From fostware at westnet.com.au Sat Jul 17 10:06:14 2004 From: fostware at westnet.com.au (Craig Foster) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 10:06:14 +0800 Subject: [plug] Bridging in ADSL modems In-Reply-To: <40F769E9.3070300@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <20040717020634.F18C678CF@spark.plug.linux.org.au> > -----Original Message----- > From: plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au > [mailto:plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au] On Behalf Of ranime > Sent: Friday, 16 July 2004 1:39 PM > To: plug at plug.linux.org.au > Subject: Re: [plug] Bridging in ADSL modems > > This is what I want to achive, > > ADSL modem/router with 4 eth switch > supplies internet access to four linux pc's. Draytek 2600 ADSL modem, router/firewall, 4port switch, DHCP server, SNMP, and syslog support. Oh, and it can also limit bandwidth on particular ethernet ports on the back. Supports VLAN, DHCP Relay, 2 IPSEC VPNs, and more... It runs ucLinux :) And if I rememeber correctly, the one we opened had an Alcatel modem chip, thus talking nicely to the Alcatel equipment at the Telstra DSLAMs Regards, CraigF. From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Sat Jul 17 10:10:19 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 10:10:19 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backup of drives for installfest?? In-Reply-To: <20040717020358.GE16516@cp.yi.org> References: <20040717012756.GC16516@cp.yi.org> <1090029525.27681.5.camel@rasputin.localnet> <20040717020358.GE16516@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <1090030219.27681.10.camel@rasputin.localnet> On Sat, 2004-07-17 at 10:03, Cameron Patrick wrote: > Ideally today for the installfest tomorrow. If you reckon they're > easy I might have a shot at compiling them tonight ... I /think/ it should be fairly easy. You will need to build partimage's dependencies as static libraries first. Obviously I can't guarantee it'll work without trying it myself now. I can't remember if rebuilding the server with --no-ssl --no-login (or whatever - sorry, it's been a while since I worked on that stuff) is enough, or if you need to rebuild the client to talk to the authentication-less server as well. I suspect it might've been the latter when I looked at it, unfortunately. -- Craig Ringer From senectus at gmail.com Sat Jul 17 10:16:34 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 10:16:34 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backup of drives for installfest?? In-Reply-To: <1090030219.27681.10.camel@rasputin.localnet> References: <20040717012756.GC16516@cp.yi.org> <1090029525.27681.5.camel@rasputin.localnet> <20040717020358.GE16516@cp.yi.org> <1090030219.27681.10.camel@rasputin.localnet> Message-ID: oh yeah, I duno if Bernard mentioned or not.. but have managed to get a halfway decent Compaq (uh i think its a 2ru DL380...) Server. So we'll be building that bugger today. On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 10:10:19 +0800, Craig Ringer wrote: > On Sat, 2004-07-17 at 10:03, Cameron Patrick wrote: > > > Ideally today for the installfest tomorrow. If you reckon they're > > easy I might have a shot at compiling them tonight ... > > I /think/ it should be fairly easy. You will need to build partimage's > dependencies as static libraries first. Obviously I can't guarantee > it'll work without trying it myself now. > > I can't remember if rebuilding the server with --no-ssl --no-login (or > whatever - sorry, it's been a while since I worked on that stuff) is > enough, or if you need to rebuild the client to talk to the > authentication-less server as well. I suspect it might've been the > latter when I looked at it, unfortunately. > > -- > Craig Ringer > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From plasma at kesshou.org Sat Jul 17 10:29:51 2004 From: plasma at kesshou.org (plasma at kesshou.org) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 10:29:51 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Installfest - Gentoo installs? Message-ID: <1275.203.220.217.45.1090031391.squirrel@webmail.kesshou.org> Hi, I'm going to this installfest to put names to faces and help out with Gentoo Installs and freaky laptop hardware, as well as wireless hardware. Knowing that it is highly unlikely, but I'll ask anyhow, will DSL be available? Most of the install can be done from the CDs, but internet access would be useful for downloading any necessary modules for unusual hardware. Thanks, Nathan Manzi From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Sat Jul 17 10:25:18 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 10:25:18 +0800 Subject: [plug] Installfest - Gentoo installs? In-Reply-To: <1275.203.220.217.45.1090031391.squirrel@webmail.kesshou.org> References: <1275.203.220.217.45.1090031391.squirrel@webmail.kesshou.org> Message-ID: <20040717022518.GF16516@cp.yi.org> plasma at kesshou.org wrote: > I'm going to this installfest to put names to faces and help out with > Gentoo Installs and freaky laptop hardware, as well as wireless hardware. > Knowing that it is highly unlikely, but I'll ask anyhow, will DSL be > available? Most of the install can be done from the CDs, but internet > access would be useful for downloading any necessary modules for unusual > hardware. DSL will be available, mainly for web browsing and (as you said) grabbing drivers if necessary. We won't be doing the installs over the Internet or from CD, though. I'm just about to head into uni to slurp doing a full Gentoo mirror from ftp.uwa :-) Cameron. From senectus at gmail.com Sat Jul 17 10:28:12 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 10:28:12 +0800 Subject: [plug] Installfest - Gentoo installs? In-Reply-To: <1275.203.220.217.45.1090031391.squirrel@webmail.kesshou.org> References: <1275.203.220.217.45.1090031391.squirrel@webmail.kesshou.org> Message-ID: I don't think we managed to sort that out... though that *may* change between now and then. I have an rsync mirror that I use for home.. I'll bring that in happily, and Bernard told me this morning that he's going to bring over a full package mirror 0.o So we "SHOULD" be able to deal with most issue's. I've never figured out how to build/maintain a a package mirror, but hey.. learning on the fly is what we do, huh.. :-P On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 10:29:51 +0800 (WST), plasma at kesshou.org wrote: > Hi, > > I'm going to this installfest to put names to faces and help out with > Gentoo Installs and freaky laptop hardware, as well as wireless hardware. > Knowing that it is highly unlikely, but I'll ask anyhow, will DSL be > available? Most of the install can be done from the CDs, but internet > access would be useful for downloading any necessary modules for unusual > hardware. > > Thanks, > Nathan Manzi > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From caston at arach.net.au Sat Jul 17 10:34:49 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 10:34:49 +0800 Subject: [plug] Installfest - Gentoo installs? In-Reply-To: <20040717022518.GF16516@cp.yi.org> References: <1275.203.220.217.45.1090031391.squirrel@webmail.kesshou.org> <20040717022518.GF16516@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <1090031689.2142.3.camel@localhost> On Sat, 2004-07-17 at 10:25, Cameron Patrick wrote: > plasma at kesshou.org wrote: > > > I'm going to this installfest to put names to faces and help out with > > Gentoo Installs and freaky laptop hardware, as well as wireless hardware. > > Knowing that it is highly unlikely, but I'll ask anyhow, will DSL be > > available? Most of the install can be done from the CDs, but internet > > access would be useful for downloading any necessary modules for unusual > > hardware. > > DSL will be available, mainly for web browsing and (as you said) > grabbing drivers if necessary. We won't be doing the installs over > the Internet or from CD, though. I'm just about to head into uni to > slurp doing a full Gentoo mirror from ftp.uwa :-) > > Cameron. > Speaking or mirrors. If I bring in my machine can I rsync a Debian mirror from someone? > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Sat Jul 17 10:33:21 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 10:33:21 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backup of drives for installfest?? In-Reply-To: <20040717020358.GE16516@cp.yi.org> References: <1090029525.27681.5.camel@rasputin.localnet> <20040717020358.GE16516@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <200407171033.21266@death.2.spammers> On Saturday 17 July 2004 10:03, Cameron Patrick wrote: > Craig Ringer wrote: > > On Sat, 2004-07-17 at 09:27, Cameron Patrick wrote: > > > Partimage over NFS is my plan. (Alternatively, if someone can > > > compile a partimage server that isn't broken, i.e. not the Debian > > > packaged version, we could use the native partimage server which > > > should achieve next to wire speed.) > > Yep, my experience at CA is that it's really damnn fast, especially if > > you make sure to gzip the install images (much faster than uncompressed > > for any computer you're likely to encounter now). I only wish partimage > > had one of the super fast compression schemes as an option too. > Pretty sure it has LZF compression these days. Will have to make sure > that the one on SysRescCD supports it too though. The "latest" SysRescCD has the -z1 option for gzip compression; and a -z2 option bzip2 for time-consuming compression. SysRescCD is probably another good option for PXE/NetBoot. NB: Newbies who walk up with a machine that's got all of its 120GB as a C: partition under Windows had better start defragmentation as soon as they can... unless they have another drive for dual-boot. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From senectus at gmail.com Sat Jul 17 10:34:52 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 10:34:52 +0800 Subject: [plug] Installfest - Gentoo installs? In-Reply-To: <1090031689.2142.3.camel@localhost> References: <1275.203.220.217.45.1090031391.squirrel@webmail.kesshou.org> <20040717022518.GF16516@cp.yi.org> <1090031689.2142.3.camel@localhost> Message-ID: > Speaking or mirrors. If I bring in my machine can I rsync a Debian > mirror from someone? Limited DLS will be available... but thats better than no DSL. There will be a full Debian mirror there from the sounds of it.. :-) From plasma at kesshou.org Sat Jul 17 10:44:50 2004 From: plasma at kesshou.org (plasma at kesshou.org) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 10:44:50 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Installfest - Gentoo installs? In-Reply-To: References: <1275.203.220.217.45.1090031391.squirrel@webmail.kesshou.org> Message-ID: <1284.203.220.217.45.1090032290.squirrel@webmail.kesshou.org> > I don't think we managed to sort that out... though that *may* change > between now and then. > I have an rsync mirror that I use for home.. I'll bring that in > happily, and Bernard told me this morning that he's going to bring > over a full package mirror 0.o Great! If you aren't too busy with other people at the installfest, I'd love to grab a general idea on setting up an rsync server. Full package mirror? Wow. ^^; Thanks, Nathan Manzi From senectus at gmail.com Sat Jul 17 10:40:45 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 10:40:45 +0800 Subject: [plug] Installfest - Gentoo installs? In-Reply-To: <1284.203.220.217.45.1090032290.squirrel@webmail.kesshou.org> References: <1275.203.220.217.45.1090031391.squirrel@webmail.kesshou.org> <1284.203.220.217.45.1090032290.squirrel@webmail.kesshou.org> Message-ID: Heh.. I did it by Reading the forum LOTS, and much luck.. :-P Yeah.. failing the package mirror I'm getting down every one of the package CD's that I can. I have most now.. and am only missing 2004.1 versions of i686 ans x86 :-P On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 10:44:50 +0800 (WST), plasma at kesshou.org wrote: > > I don't think we managed to sort that out... though that *may* change > > between now and then. > > I have an rsync mirror that I use for home.. I'll bring that in > > happily, and Bernard told me this morning that he's going to bring > > over a full package mirror 0.o > > Great! If you aren't too busy with other people at the installfest, I'd > love to grab a general idea on setting up an rsync server. Full package > mirror? Wow. ^^; > > > > Thanks, > Nathan Manzi > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From magni at plug.linux.org.au Sat Jul 17 11:09:20 2004 From: magni at plug.linux.org.au (Tony Breeds) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 11:09:20 +0800 Subject: [plug] debian - perl question. In-Reply-To: <40F761E8.1000100@tehvand.com> References: <40F761E8.1000100@tehvand.com> Message-ID: <20040717030920.GB15568@spark.plug.linux.org.au> On Fri, Jul 16, 2004 at 01:04:40PM +0800, Patrick Tehvand wrote: > From Perl on a redhat7.3 box creates and uses Berkeley hash files > version 7, which is from Berkeley DB 3. > > All the db_ commands are aliased to db3_ commands. > > DB_File is 1.75. > > From Perl on a debian 3.0r2 box creates and uses Berkeley has files > version 5, which is from Berkeley DB 2 or 1 (not sure, probably 1). Try installing the Berkley DB3 packages: --- tony at pythia:~$ apt-cache search db3 db3-doc - Berkeley v3 Database Documentation [html] libdb3 - Berkeley v3 Database Libraries [runtime] libdb3++ - Berkeley v3 Database Libraries for C++ [runtime] libdb3++-dev - Berkeley v3 Database Libraries for C++ [development] libdb3-dev - Berkeley v3 Database Libraries [development] libdb3-tcl - Berkeley v3 Database Libraries for TCL [module] libdb3-util - Berkeley v3 Database Utilities python-bsddb3 - Python interface to libdb3 --- Use something like: dpkg -l '*db2*' | egrep ^ii to work out which v2 libraries you currently have. -- Yours Tony Linux.Conf.AU http://lca2005.linux.org.au/ Apr 18-23 2005 The Australian Linux Technical Conference! From fiasco_j at iinet.net.au Sat Jul 17 11:07:52 2004 From: fiasco_j at iinet.net.au (John H) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 11:07:52 +0800 Subject: [plug] VOIP - I'm connected! In-Reply-To: <200407162054.24261.sboak@westnet.com.au> References: <200407162054.24261.sboak@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <200407171107.52935.fiasco_j@iinet.net.au> Why not install Skype, plug in a mic and do VoIP on your 'puter? john h On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 08:54 pm, Steve Boak wrote: > Free phonecalls, here I come :-) > > I received my IP phone today, a Grandstream Budgetone 100 from iTech. It > took all of five minutes to set it up using the one-page internal web form, > get a number from Free World Dialup, now all I need is someone to talk > to... > > For those interested, the phone came in black, not the white that was > advertised (I don't mind), wrapped in bubble-wrap in a flimsy cardboard > box. It seems well made, looks and feels exactly like a 'normal' phone, > except it plugs into a network cable instead of a phone line. > > There was no instructions of any kind with the unit, but a google search of > 'grandstream budge-tone 100' gave me the current 36 page user manual on the > top of the first page. The only thing I needed the manual for was to find > the default login password for the internal webpage, and everything I > needed to know about configuration was on the FWD site. All local network > configuration was completely automatic via dhcp. > > And yes, it does seem to work seemlessly over a NAT enabled firewall, once > I poked a hole at udp port 5060 for the SIP stream. > > Call quality seems excellent, although with a noticeable (but not bad) > delay when talking to the FWD echo server as a test. I assume this would be > much less apparent in a real conversation. > > All in all, a definite thumbs-up :-) > > Steve -- We all have to make sacrifices. I didn't get where I am today without having to make sacrifices. -C.J. From sboak at westnet.com.au Sat Jul 17 11:14:06 2004 From: sboak at westnet.com.au (Steve Boak) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 11:14:06 +0800 Subject: [plug] hdparm troubles Message-ID: <200407171114.06732.sboak@westnet.com.au> Hi all, I'm trying to optimise the hd performance on my Via C3 500MHz system, and wondering why I have such terrible performance with what I thought was a fairly good configuration. min:~# hdparm -X68 -c3 -m16 -d1 /dev/hda /dev/hda: setting 32-bit IO_support flag to 3 setting multcount to 16 setting using_dma to 1 (on) setting xfermode to 68 (UltraDMA mode4) multcount = 16 (on) IO_support = 3 (32-bit w/sync) using_dma = 1 (on) min:~# hdparm -Tt /dev/hda /dev/hda: Timing buffer-cache reads: 192 MB in 2.03 seconds = 94.58 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 12 MB in 3.20 seconds = 3.75 MB/sec 3.75 MB/sec ??? udma is enabled in the BIOS, 80-way cables installed, brand new WDC WD800BB hd. What have I missed? Steve -- VOIP-Phone - Free World Dialup number 454566 - Via 128k ISDN "Most men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and continue on as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill From bernard at blackham.com.au Sat Jul 17 11:15:58 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 11:15:58 +0800 Subject: [plug] Installfest - Gentoo installs? In-Reply-To: References: <1275.203.220.217.45.1090031391.squirrel@webmail.kesshou.org> <20040717022518.GF16516@cp.yi.org> <1090031689.2142.3.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20040717031558.GC2523@blackham.com.au> On Sat, Jul 17, 2004 at 10:34:52AM +0800, Senectus . wrote: > > Speaking or mirrors. If I bring in my machine can I rsync a Debian > > mirror from someone? > > Limited DLS will be available... but thats better than no DSL. > > There will be a full Debian mirror there from the sounds of it.. :-) Indeed there will be! At least one :) Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From patrick at tehvand.com Sat Jul 17 11:19:09 2004 From: patrick at tehvand.com (Patrick Tehvand) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 11:19:09 +0800 Subject: [plug] debian - perl question. In-Reply-To: <20040717030920.GB15568@spark.plug.linux.org.au> References: <40F761E8.1000100@tehvand.com> <20040717030920.GB15568@spark.plug.linux.org.au> Message-ID: <40F89AAD.9030508@tehvand.com> Tony Breeds wrote: > On Fri, Jul 16, 2004 at 01:04:40PM +0800, Patrick Tehvand wrote: > >>From Perl on a redhat7.3 box creates and uses Berkeley hash files >>version 7, which is from Berkeley DB 3. >> >>All the db_ commands are aliased to db3_ commands. >> >>DB_File is 1.75. >> >>From Perl on a debian 3.0r2 box creates and uses Berkeley has files >>version 5, which is from Berkeley DB 2 or 1 (not sure, probably 1). > > > Try installing the Berkley DB3 packages: > --- > tony at pythia:~$ apt-cache search db3 > db3-doc - Berkeley v3 Database Documentation [html] > libdb3 - Berkeley v3 Database Libraries [runtime] > libdb3++ - Berkeley v3 Database Libraries for C++ [runtime] > libdb3++-dev - Berkeley v3 Database Libraries for C++ [development] > libdb3-dev - Berkeley v3 Database Libraries [development] > libdb3-tcl - Berkeley v3 Database Libraries for TCL [module] > libdb3-util - Berkeley v3 Database Utilities > python-bsddb3 - Python interface to libdb3 > --- > > Use something like: > dpkg -l '*db2*' | egrep ^ii > > to work out which v2 libraries you currently have. Yup. we already had the db3 packages. what it turned out to be was an old version of DB_File which I updated using CPAN. sigh. Sorry, forgot to inform the list. p. From sboak at westnet.com.au Sat Jul 17 11:24:46 2004 From: sboak at westnet.com.au (Steve Boak) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 11:24:46 +0800 Subject: [plug] VOIP - I'm connected! In-Reply-To: <200407171107.52935.fiasco_j@iinet.net.au> References: <200407162054.24261.sboak@westnet.com.au> <200407171107.52935.fiasco_j@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <200407171124.46909.sboak@westnet.com.au> On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 11:07 am, John H wrote: > Why not install Skype, plug in a mic and do VoIP on your 'puter? > Several reasons: ongoing problems with sound on my motherboard (and no, there isn't room for another audio card in the Mini-ITX case), I wanted to experiment with new technology, and last but most important, I LOVE NEW TOYS :-) Steve -- VOIP-Phone - Free World Dialup number 454566 - Via 128k ISDN "Most men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and continue on as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill From anarchist_tomato at hotmail.com Sat Jul 17 11:45:29 2004 From: anarchist_tomato at hotmail.com (John Knight) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 11:45:29 +0800 Subject: [plug] hdparm troubles Message-ID: I hate to ask the obvious, but is there a slave device on there? Do you know that your older BIOS supports these modes? If not, it'll probably be detrimental to performance. "...it was brilliant, there was three up against a thousand, and boy, did we give those three heaps!" >Hi all, > >I'm trying to optimise the hd performance on my Via C3 500MHz system, and >wondering why I have such terrible performance with what I thought was a >fairly good configuration. > >min:~# hdparm -X68 -c3 -m16 -d1 /dev/hda >/dev/hda: > setting 32-bit IO_support flag to 3 > setting multcount to 16 > setting using_dma to 1 (on) > setting xfermode to 68 (UltraDMA mode4) > multcount = 16 (on) > IO_support = 3 (32-bit w/sync) > using_dma = 1 (on) > >min:~# hdparm -Tt /dev/hda >/dev/hda: > Timing buffer-cache reads: 192 MB in 2.03 seconds = 94.58 MB/sec > Timing buffered disk reads: 12 MB in 3.20 seconds = 3.75 MB/sec > >3.75 MB/sec ??? > >udma is enabled in the BIOS, >80-way cables installed, >brand new WDC WD800BB hd. >What have I missed? > >Steve > >-- >VOIP-Phone - Free World Dialup number 454566 - Via 128k ISDN > >"Most men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves >up and continue on as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au _________________________________________________________________ Play Love Hunt to win a $9000 holiday and find love! http://mobilecentral.ninemsn.com.au/mclovehunt/lovehunt.aspx From sboak at westnet.com.au Sat Jul 17 12:04:02 2004 From: sboak at westnet.com.au (Steve Boak) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 12:04:02 +0800 Subject: [plug] hdparm troubles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200407171204.03524.sboak@westnet.com.au> On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 11:45 am, John Knight wrote: > I hate to ask the obvious, but is there a slave device on there? Do you > know that your older BIOS supports these modes? If not, it'll probably be > detrimental to performance. No, only one drive on the bus. The motherboard manual says it supports Ultra-DMA 33/66/100. The BIOS was updated less than a year ago. Steve -- VOIP-Phone - Free World Dialup number 454566 - Via 128k ISDN "Most men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and continue on as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill From caston at arach.net.au Sat Jul 17 12:21:45 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 12:21:45 +0800 Subject: [plug] Linux friendly accountants? Message-ID: <1090038105.2181.33.camel@localhost> Hello, Does anyone know of an accountant or firm that is more than happy to work with OSS? thanks, -- Chris Caston Aptitude Technology Office: 1300 722 146 Mobile: 0422 978 315 Rule #1 Everything puts you at an advantage Rule #2 If something puts you at a disadvantage see rule #1 From fostware at westnet.com.au Sat Jul 17 12:24:53 2004 From: fostware at westnet.com.au (Craig Foster) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 12:24:53 +0800 Subject: [plug] hdparm troubles In-Reply-To: <200407171114.06732.sboak@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <20040717042505.0465778AC@spark.plug.linux.org.au> > -----Original Message----- > From: plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au > [mailto:plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au] On Behalf Of Steve Boak > Sent: Saturday, 17 July 2004 11:14 AM > To: Perth Linux Users Group > Subject: [plug] hdparm troubles > > Hi all, > > I'm trying to optimise the hd performance on my Via C3 500MHz > system, and wondering why I have such terrible performance > with what I thought was a fairly good configuration. > What motherboard do you have? > > 3.75 MB/sec ??? > > udma is enabled in the BIOS, > 80-way cables installed, > brand new WDC WD800BB hd. > What have I missed? > > Steve Regards, CraigF. From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Sat Jul 17 12:28:05 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 12:28:05 +0800 Subject: [plug] hdparm troubles In-Reply-To: <200407171114.06732.sboak@westnet.com.au> References: <200407171114.06732.sboak@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <200407171228.05023@death.2.spammers> On Saturday 17 July 2004 11:14, Steve Boak wrote: > I'm trying to optimise the hd performance on my Via C3 500MHz system, and > wondering why I have such terrible performance with what I thought was a > fairly good configuration. > > min:~# hdparm -X68 -c3 -m16 -d1 /dev/hda > /dev/hda: > setting 32-bit IO_support flag to 3 > setting multcount to 16 > setting using_dma to 1 (on) > setting xfermode to 68 (UltraDMA mode4) > multcount = 16 (on) > IO_support = 3 (32-bit w/sync) > using_dma = 1 (on) > > min:~# hdparm -Tt /dev/hda > /dev/hda: > Timing buffer-cache reads: 192 MB in 2.03 seconds = 94.58 MB/sec > Timing buffered disk reads: 12 MB in 3.20 seconds = 3.75 MB/sec > > 3.75 MB/sec ??? > udma is enabled in the BIOS, > 80-way cables installed, > brand new WDC WD800BB hd. > What have I missed? Seems like DMA isn't actually on. I get 5.64 MB/sec on my 933MHz C3 reading 64MB with a non-DMA drive in a generic Pentium 2.2.x kernel... and 37.74 off a 7200rpm 80GB with UDMA on a C3-compiled 2.4.20(?) kernel. Maybe the IDE chipset drivers aren't working. Scary figures on this system; /dev/hda: Timing buffer-cache reads: 128 MB in 0.32 seconds =400.00 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 1.35 seconds = 47.41 MB/sec Buffer-cache is very fast, but actual disk isn't very much quicker than the Mini-ITX -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From garbuck at westnet.com.au Sat Jul 17 12:28:24 2004 From: garbuck at westnet.com.au (Garry) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 12:28:24 +0800 Subject: [plug] Linux friendly accountants? In-Reply-To: <1090038105.2181.33.camel@localhost> References: <1090038105.2181.33.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <40F8AAE8.5010404@westnet.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Chris Caston wrote: | Hello, | | Does anyone know of an accountant or firm that is more than happy to | work with OSS? | | thanks, Might be worth chatting with Jaycar Electronics (Newcastle St). They do their POS stuff on Linux, so they might be able to recommend someone. Garry - -- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFA+KrnvdH9DANniC8RAvfjAKDiFA4sUAm5Xg48tL6fWs4KWLaAzACff+bp wHIT4sIoHNgQIgduM8MXSgc= =x0rB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Sat Jul 17 12:32:02 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 12:32:02 +0800 Subject: [plug] Linux friendly accountants? In-Reply-To: <1090038105.2181.33.camel@localhost> References: <1090038105.2181.33.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <200407171232.02767@death.2.spammers> On Saturday 17 July 2004 12:21, Chris Caston wrote: > Does anyone know of an accountant or firm that is more than happy to > work with OSS? Sorry; I can't see how OSS makes a difference to accountants. Computers are just tools to accountants. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From sboak at westnet.com.au Sat Jul 17 13:28:20 2004 From: sboak at westnet.com.au (Steve Boak) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 13:28:20 +0800 Subject: [plug] hdparm troubles In-Reply-To: <20040717042505.0465778AC@spark.plug.linux.org.au> References: <20040717042505.0465778AC@spark.plug.linux.org.au> Message-ID: <200407171328.20833.sboak@westnet.com.au> On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 12:24 pm, Craig Foster wrote: [...] > What motherboard do you have? The motherboard is a Via EPAI-V C3 mini-itx with a Via Eden 533MHz processor, VIA8601A northbridge and VT8231 Southbridge chipsets. Debian testing, and custom Kernel 2.4.22 if that matters, relevant kernel options: # IDE chipset support/bugfixes (unset options removed) # CONFIG_BLK_DEV_CMD640=y CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDEPCI=y CONFIG_IDEPCI_SHARE_IRQ=y CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDEDMA_PCI=y CONFIG_IDEDMA_PCI_AUTO=y CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDEDMA=y CONFIG_BLK_DEV_PIIX=y CONFIG_BLK_DEV_RZ1000=y CONFIG_BLK_DEV_VIA82CXXX=y CONFIG_IDEDMA_AUTO=y CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDE_MODES=y I agree with Bernd in a separate reply: >Seems like DMA isn't actually on. I get 5.64 MB/sec on my 933MHz C3 I tested with dma off (hdparm -X68 -c1 -m16 -d0 /dev/hda), and the disk transfer rate *almost doubled* from 3.69MB/sec to 6.64MB/sec! So there is definitely something wrong with DMA, either the driver or the hardware. I'm off to google some more... Out of interest, here's the proc info on the ide interface: min:~# cat /proc/ide/via ----------VIA BusMastering IDE Configuration---------------- Driver Version: 3.37 South Bridge: VIA vt8231 Revision: ISA 0x10 IDE 0x6 Highest DMA rate: UDMA100 BM-DMA base: 0xd000 PCI clock: 33.3MHz Master Read Cycle IRDY: 0ws Master Write Cycle IRDY: 0ws BM IDE Status Register Read Retry: yes Max DRDY Pulse Width: No limit -----------------------Primary IDE-------Secondary IDE------ Read DMA FIFO flush: yes yes End Sector FIFO flush: no no Prefetch Buffer: yes yes Post Write Buffer: yes yes Enabled: yes no Simplex only: no no Cable Type: 80w 40w -------------------drive0----drive1----drive2----drive3----- Transfer Mode: UDMA PIO PIO PIO Address Setup: 30ns 120ns 120ns 120ns Cmd Active: 90ns 90ns 480ns 480ns Cmd Recovery: 30ns 30ns 480ns 480ns Data Active: 90ns 330ns 330ns 330ns Data Recovery: 30ns 270ns 270ns 270ns Cycle Time: 30ns 600ns 600ns 600ns Transfer Rate: 66.6MB/s 3.3MB/s 3.3MB/s 3.3MB/s Any more information that would help? Steve -- VOIP-Phone - Free World Dialup number 454566 - Via 128k ISDN "Most men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and continue on as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill From easygoing at aijv.com.au Sat Jul 17 14:05:24 2004 From: easygoing at aijv.com.au (landerson) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 14:05:24 +0800 Subject: [plug] Re: vgagl.h Message-ID: <20040717140524.656f0c23.easygoing@aijv.com.au> Craig Ringer, Many thanks for the info. If all goes well can take a few more steps forward. Laurie From russ at powerstech.com Sat Jul 17 14:02:43 2004 From: russ at powerstech.com (Russ Powers) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 14:02:43 +0800 Subject: [plug] firefox 0.9 Message-ID: <200407171402.43280.russ@powerstech.com> Hi, Anybody using firefox 0.9? I'm trying to figure out how to get it to import my firefox 0.8 bookmarks (suppose I could just copy them into the appropriate directory). And I'm having a problem with the extensions manager. When I go to my bank site, it comes up with a message saying I need to install the java 2 extension. I replied yes, it downloaded, and then said it had installed successfully. I went back to the site and the same message came up. So I shut firefox down, restarted it, and went back to the site. Same message. Anybody run into this? Thanks. -- Regards, Russ From garbuck at westnet.com.au Sat Jul 17 14:27:47 2004 From: garbuck at westnet.com.au (Garry) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 14:27:47 +0800 Subject: [plug] firefox 0.9 In-Reply-To: <200407171402.43280.russ@powerstech.com> References: <200407171402.43280.russ@powerstech.com> Message-ID: <40F8C6E3.2080009@westnet.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Russ Powers wrote: | Hi, | | Anybody using firefox 0.9? There's some info on: http://plugindoc.mozdev.org/faqs/firefox-linux.html#install-java I'm downloading jre1.4.2 right now as per this page, will give it a try. HTH Garry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFA+MbjvdH9DANniC8RAuMSAKCELnG90caGCdLjw9VhFwP3P37wBQCfWbgd TGaVkt0DpYZMTRoOIRAvqqc= =4QNo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From garbuck at westnet.com.au Sat Jul 17 14:35:10 2004 From: garbuck at westnet.com.au (Garry) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 14:35:10 +0800 Subject: [plug] firefox 0.9 In-Reply-To: <40F8C6E3.2080009@westnet.com.au> References: <200407171402.43280.russ@powerstech.com> <40F8C6E3.2080009@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <40F8C89E.9050503@westnet.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 | I'm downloading jre1.4.2 right now as per this page, will give it a try. Nup. No good. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFA+MievdH9DANniC8RAiIKAJ9ugAE04kVZAvEVP75Oap43CLrJ5QCfcq3Y 9T1xZC6Oft9wwlVab2TNx9Q= =nAYv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mungotheb at hotmail.com Sat Jul 17 15:08:56 2004 From: mungotheb at hotmail.com (Mungo TheB) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 07:08:56 +0000 Subject: [plug] firefox 0.9 Message-ID: i managed to get JAVA working by folling the instructions at SUN site its the linking to the netscape plugin that will work (NOT the download plugin) MungoTheB _________________________________________________________________ Love Movies? You'll love HomeScreen. Rental DVDs - no late fees! Go to: http://www.ninemsn.homescreen.com.au/account/freetrial/?.promo=9msn_hotmail_ tagline From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Sat Jul 17 15:28:39 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 15:28:39 +0800 Subject: [plug] hdparm troubles In-Reply-To: <200407171114.06732.sboak@westnet.com.au> References: <200407171114.06732.sboak@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <1090049319.28058.58.camel@rasputin.localnet> On Sat, 2004-07-17 at 11:14, Steve Boak wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm trying to optimise the hd performance on my Via C3 500MHz system, and > wondering why I have such terrible performance with what I thought was a > fairly good configuration. > > min:~# hdparm -X68 -c3 -m16 -d1 /dev/hda > /dev/hda: > setting 32-bit IO_support flag to 3 > setting multcount to 16 > setting using_dma to 1 (on) > setting xfermode to 68 (UltraDMA mode4) > multcount = 16 (on) > IO_support = 3 (32-bit w/sync) > using_dma = 1 (on) Have you tried flipping unmasked interrupts (-u) on? I'd also try enabling DMA without trying to set the speed (let the disk/interface decide it) by omitting the -X68. I'd also try 16 bit mode .. just in case there's some stupid driver or controller bug. On the same line of thinking, I'd also run some tests with multicount disabled. When you're doing the testing, what sort of CPU load do you see? Have you tried a recent kernel? Perhaps the via IDE drivers have improved for these boards. IIRC they're known to be a little eccentric and have had Linux support issues in the past. Do the boards have an IO-APIC? If yes, try booting with 'noapic' in case it's braindead. Check /proc/interrupts to see if your IDE controller is being forced to share interrupts with anything. Do you have anything else in the system that might be generating heavy interrupt loads (TV input cards, for example)? > min:~# hdparm -Tt /dev/hda > /dev/hda: > Timing buffer-cache reads: 192 MB in 2.03 seconds = 94.58 MB/sec > Timing buffered disk reads: 12 MB in 3.20 seconds = 3.75 MB/sec > > 3.75 MB/sec ??? Wow. -- Craig Ringer From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Sat Jul 17 16:20:32 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 16:20:32 +0800 Subject: [plug] hdparm troubles In-Reply-To: <200407171328.20833.sboak@westnet.com.au> References: <20040717042505.0465778AC@spark.plug.linux.org.au> <200407171328.20833.sboak@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <200407171620.32271@death.2.spammers> On Saturday 17 July 2004 13:28, Steve Boak wrote: > On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 12:24 pm, Craig Foster wrote: > [...] > > > What motherboard do you have? > > The motherboard is a Via EPAI-V C3 mini-itx with a Via Eden 533MHz > processor, VIA8601A northbridge and VT8231 Southbridge chipsets. Just for you, I've just assembled a system with EPIA V C3 at 1GHz; and 512MB -- gross overkill but components were on the shelf except for the mainboard which was cheaper than the Eden. I've booted with SuSE Linux's 7.3 kernel; a firewall system now moved to a new-ish drive... clutch:~ # uname -a Linux clutch 2.4.16-4GB #1 Wed Dec 19 09:08:41 GMT 2001 i686 unknown clutch:~ # hdparm /dev/hda /dev/hda: multcount = 32 (on) I/O support = 1 (32-bit) unmaskirq = 1 (on) using_dma = 1 (on) keepsettings = 0 (off) nowerr = 0 (off) readonly = 0 (off) readahead = 8 (on) geometry = 16708/16/63, sectors = 16841664, start = 0 Those are the default settings detected at boot-up. I've not forced any parameters. Just let the drivers do their thing. clutch:/proc/ide # cat via ----------VIA BusMastering IDE Configuration---------------- Driver Version: 3.29 South Bridge: VIA vt8231 Revision: ISA 0x10 IDE 0x6 Highest DMA rate: UDMA100 BM-DMA base: 0xe000 PCI clock: 33MHz Master Read Cycle IRDY: 0ws Master Write Cycle IRDY: 0ws BM IDE Status Register Read Retry: yes Max DRDY Pulse Width: No limit -----------------------Primary IDE-------Secondary IDE------ Read DMA FIFO flush: yes yes End Sector FIFO flush: no no Prefetch Buffer: yes yes Post Write Buffer: yes yes Enabled: yes no Simplex only: no no Cable Type: 80w 40w -------------------drive0----drive1----drive2----drive3----- Transfer Mode: UDMA PIO PIO PIO Address Setup: 30ns 120ns 120ns 120ns Cmd Active: 90ns 90ns 480ns 480ns Cmd Recovery: 30ns 30ns 480ns 480ns Data Active: 90ns 330ns 330ns 330ns Data Recovery: 30ns 270ns 270ns 270ns Cycle Time: 30ns 600ns 600ns 600ns Transfer Rate: 66.0MB/s 3.3MB/s 3.3MB/s 3.3MB/s clutch:/proc/ide/ide0/hda # cat model ST38410A Now the tests on an "idle" system: clutch:~ # hdparm -Tt /dev/hda /dev/hda: Timing buffer-cache reads: 128 MB in 1.35 seconds = 94.81 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 3.18 seconds = 20.13 MB/sec clutch:~ # hdparm -Tt /dev/hda /dev/hda: Timing buffer-cache reads: 128 MB in 1.21 seconds =105.79 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 3.16 seconds = 20.25 MB/sec clutch:~ # hdparm -Tt /dev/hda /dev/hda: Timing buffer-cache reads: 128 MB in 1.25 seconds =102.40 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 3.16 seconds = 20.25 MB/sec i.e. It looks like DMA works. Indeed more automagically than with the EPIA-M I tested earlier. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Sat Jul 17 16:25:27 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 16:25:27 +0800 Subject: [plug] hdparm troubles In-Reply-To: <200407171328.20833.sboak@westnet.com.au> References: <20040717042505.0465778AC@spark.plug.linux.org.au> <200407171328.20833.sboak@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <200407171625.27599@death.2.spammers> Oh, I forgot... what does hdparm -i show on your system? clutch:~ # hdparm -i /dev/hda /dev/hda: Model=ST38410A, FwRev=3.20, SerialNo=7DX02MWG Config={ HardSect NotMFM HdSw>15uSec Fixed DTR>10Mbs RotSpdTol>.5% } RawCHS=16383/16/63, TrkSize=0, SectSize=0, ECCbytes=4 BuffType=unknown, BuffSize=512kB, MaxMultSect=32, MultSect=32 CurCHS=16383/16/63, CurSects=-66060037, LBA=yes, LBAsects=16841664 IORDY=on/off, tPIO={min:240,w/IORDY:120}, tDMA={min:120,rec:120} PIO modes: pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4 DMA modes: mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 *udma4 AdvancedPM=yes: unknown setting Drive Supports : Reserved : ATA-1 ATA-2 ATA-3 ATA-4 ATA-5 Kernel Drive Geometry LogicalCHS=16708/16/63 PhysicalCHS=16708/16/63 HTH -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From russ at powerstech.com Sat Jul 17 16:29:08 2004 From: russ at powerstech.com (Russ Powers) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 16:29:08 +0800 Subject: [plug] firefox 0.9 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200407171629.08245.russ@powerstech.com> On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 03:08 pm, Mungo TheB wrote: > i managed to get JAVA working by folling the instructions at SUN site > > its the linking to the netscape plugin that will work (NOT the download > plugin) Well, java seems to work. I'm able to use the web site. But it is annoying to have that extension request pop up every time. And that it downloaded all 14M and said i was a success, then didn't work. > > MungoTheB > > _________________________________________________________________ > Love Movies? You'll love HomeScreen. Rental DVDs - no late fees! Go to: > http://www.ninemsn.homescreen.com.au/account/freetrial/?.promo=9msn_hotmail >_ tagline > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -- Regards, Russ From sboak at westnet.com.au Sat Jul 17 17:28:39 2004 From: sboak at westnet.com.au (Steve Boak) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 17:28:39 +0800 Subject: [plug] hdparm troubles In-Reply-To: <200407171620.32271@death.2.spammers> References: <20040717042505.0465778AC@spark.plug.linux.org.au> <200407171328.20833.sboak@westnet.com.au> <200407171620.32271@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <200407171728.39822.sboak@westnet.com.au> On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 04:20 pm, Bernd Felsche wrote: > > Just for you, I've just assembled a system with EPIA V C3 at 1GHz; > and 512MB -- gross overkill but components were on the shelf except > for the mainboard which was cheaper than the Eden. Wish I had that sort of kit 'just laying around' :-) Your processor is twice the speed of mine, but that shouldn't make significant difference to the dma speed. I also have 512MB of Ram. I've disabled the hdparm I was using at startup, now running on the system defaults. No change in cache or disk read speeds. > > I've booted with SuSE Linux's 7.3 kernel; a firewall system > now moved to a new-ish drive... > > clutch:~ # uname -a > Linux clutch 2.4.16-4GB #1 Wed Dec 19 09:08:41 GMT 2001 i686 unknown > > clutch:~ # hdparm /dev/hda > /dev/hda: > multcount = 32 (on) > I/O support = 1 (32-bit) > unmaskirq = 1 (on) > using_dma = 1 (on) > keepsettings = 0 (off) > nowerr = 0 (off) > readonly = 0 (off) > readahead = 8 (on) > geometry = 16708/16/63, sectors = 16841664, start = 0 > Identical to mine, except for the disk geometry. > Those are the default settings detected at boot-up. I've not forced > any parameters. Just let the drivers do their thing. > > clutch:/proc/ide # cat via > ----------VIA BusMastering IDE Configuration---------------- > Driver Version: 3.29 I have version 3.37 > South Bridge: VIA vt8231 > Revision: ISA 0x10 IDE 0x6 > Highest DMA rate: UDMA100 > BM-DMA base: 0xe000 and 0xd000 here > PCI clock: 33MHz > Master Read Cycle IRDY: 0ws > Master Write Cycle IRDY: 0ws > BM IDE Status Register Read Retry: yes > Max DRDY Pulse Width: No limit > -----------------------Primary IDE-------Secondary IDE------ > Read DMA FIFO flush: yes yes > End Sector FIFO flush: no no > Prefetch Buffer: yes yes > Post Write Buffer: yes yes > Enabled: yes no > Simplex only: no no > Cable Type: 80w 40w > -------------------drive0----drive1----drive2----drive3----- > Transfer Mode: UDMA PIO PIO PIO > Address Setup: 30ns 120ns 120ns 120ns > Cmd Active: 90ns 90ns 480ns 480ns > Cmd Recovery: 30ns 30ns 480ns 480ns > Data Active: 90ns 330ns 330ns 330ns > Data Recovery: 30ns 270ns 270ns 270ns > Cycle Time: 30ns 600ns 600ns 600ns > Transfer Rate: 66.0MB/s 3.3MB/s 3.3MB/s 3.3MB/s all the rest are the same. min:~# hdparm -i /dev/hda /dev/hda: Model=WDC WD800BB-75FJA1, FwRev=14.03G14, SerialNo=WD-WMAJ93861386 Config={ HardSect NotMFM HdSw>15uSec SpinMotCtl Fixed DTR>5Mbs FmtGapReq } RawCHS=16383/16/63, TrkSize=0, SectSize=0, ECCbytes=58 BuffType=unknown, BuffSize=2048kB, MaxMultSect=16, MultSect=16 CurCHS=4047/16/255, CurSects=16511760, LBA=yes, LBAsects=156250000 IORDY=on/off, tPIO={min:120,w/IORDY:120}, tDMA={min:120,rec:120} PIO modes: pio0 pio3 pio4 DMA modes: mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 UDMA modes: udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 *udma5 AdvancedPM=no WriteCache=enabled Drive conforms to: device does not report version: * signifies the current active mode Hmmm - it's gone to udma5 on it's own now. > Timing buffer-cache reads: 128 MB in 1.25 seconds =102.40 MB/sec > Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 3.16 seconds = 20.25 MB/sec Timing buffer-cache reads: 180 MB in 2.04 seconds = 88.24 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 12 MB in 3.27 seconds = 3.67 MB/sec > > i.e. It looks like DMA works. Indeed more automagically than with > the EPIA-M I tested earlier. Wish it did on mine :-) Now I'll go and try Craig's suggestions... Steve -- VOIP-Phone - Free World Dialup number 454566 - Via 128k ISDN "Most men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and continue on as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill From sboak at westnet.com.au Sat Jul 17 17:47:43 2004 From: sboak at westnet.com.au (Steve Boak) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 17:47:43 +0800 Subject: [plug] hdparm troubles In-Reply-To: <1090049319.28058.58.camel@rasputin.localnet> References: <200407171114.06732.sboak@westnet.com.au> <1090049319.28058.58.camel@rasputin.localnet> Message-ID: <200407171747.44506.sboak@westnet.com.au> On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 03:28 pm, Craig Ringer wrote: [...] > Have you tried flipping unmasked interrupts (-u) on? it is on by default: (and makes no difference if I turn it off) min:~# hdparm /dev/hda /dev/hda: multcount = 16 (on) IO_support = 1 (32-bit) unmaskirq = 1 (on) using_dma = 1 (on) keepsettings = 0 (off) readonly = 0 (off) readahead = 8 (on) geometry = 23937/16/63, sectors = 156250000, start = 0 > I'd also try > enabling DMA without trying to set the speed (let the disk/interface > decide it) by omitting the -X68. min:~# hdparm -c1 -m16 -d1 /dev/hda /dev/hda: setting 32-bit IO_support flag to 1 setting multcount to 16 setting using_dma to 1 (on) multcount = 16 (on) IO_support = 1 (32-bit) using_dma = 1 (on) min:~# hdparm -Tt /dev/hda /dev/hda: Timing buffer-cache reads: 192 MB in 2.00 seconds = 96.00 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 12 MB in 3.17 seconds = 3.79 MB/sec > I'd also try 16 bit mode .. just in case there's some stupid driver or > controller bug. min:~# hdparm -c0 -m16 -d1 /dev/hda /dev/hda: setting 32-bit IO_support flag to 0 setting multcount to 16 setting using_dma to 1 (on) multcount = 16 (on) IO_support = 0 (default 16-bit) using_dma = 1 (on) min:~# hdparm -Tt /dev/hda /dev/hda: Timing buffer-cache reads: 176 MB in 2.02 seconds = 87.13 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 12 MB in 3.36 seconds = 3.57 MB/sec > On the same line of > thinking, I'd also run some tests with multicount disabled. Also makes no difference. > > When you're doing the testing, what sort of CPU load do you see? > Cache test 100% cpu usage, disk reads about 10-20% > Have you tried a recent kernel? Perhaps the via IDE drivers have > improved for these boards. IIRC they're known to be a little eccentric > and have had Linux support issues in the past. OK, how hard can it be to move up to 2.6 :-) > Do the boards have an IO-APIC? If yes, try booting with 'noapic' in case > it's braindead. Don't know, but tried it anyway - no difference :-( > Check /proc/interrupts to see if your IDE controller is > being forced to share interrupts with anything. min:~# cat /proc/interrupts CPU0 0: 208512 XT-PIC timer 1: 9269 XT-PIC keyboard 2: 0 XT-PIC cascade 5: 1513 XT-PIC VIA686A 9: 5229 XT-PIC usb-uhci, usb-uhci 10: 0 XT-PIC eth1 11: 388 XT-PIC eth0 12: 29373 XT-PIC PS/2 Mouse 14: 62866 XT-PIC ide0 NMI: 0 LOC: 0 ERR: 0 Does XT-PIC mean anything significant? min:~# cat /proc/dma 4: cascade How about cascaded dma? Is this important? > Do you have anything > else in the system that might be generating heavy interrupt loads (TV > input cards, for example)? Nope - only room for one extra RTL PCI NIC card. From top: Cpu(s): 3.2% user, 3.2% system, 0.0% nice, 93.6% idle > > > min:~# hdparm -Tt /dev/hda > > /dev/hda: > > Timing buffer-cache reads: 192 MB in 2.03 seconds = 94.58 MB/sec > > Timing buffered disk reads: 12 MB in 3.20 seconds = 3.75 MB/sec > > > > 3.75 MB/sec ??? > > Wow. > > -- > Craig Ringer Thanks everyone. I have found a couple of mentions of similar, though not exactly the same, problems through google - but unfortunately no answers yet. I'll leave the settings with dma off and put up with ~6MB/sec for the moment until I decide if I should upgrade the kernel. At least it's twice as fast as it was before. Thank goodness I don't have to trawl terrabytes of data that some of you guys mention in passing as though it was an everyday occurrence :-) Steve -- VOIP-Phone - Free World Dialup number 454566 - Via 128k ISDN "Most men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and continue on as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill From billk at iinet.net.au Sat Jul 17 18:00:30 2004 From: billk at iinet.net.au (William Kenworthy) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 18:00:30 +0800 Subject: [plug] Installfest - Gentoo installs? In-Reply-To: <1284.203.220.217.45.1090032290.squirrel@webmail.kesshou.org> References: <1275.203.220.217.45.1090031391.squirrel@webmail.kesshou.org> <1284.203.220.217.45.1090032290.squirrel@webmail.kesshou.org> Message-ID: <1090058430.23601.16.camel@rattus.Localdomain> gentoo server: in /etc/rsync/rsync.conf [distfiles] uid = portage gid = portage path = /usr/portage/distfiles auth users = gentoo secrets file = /etc/rsync/rsyncd.secrets readonly = yes then "/etc/init.d/rsyncd start" "rc-update add rsyncd default" I use a user/password in the clients /etc/make.conf, however for something like the installfest, an open server would be fine. I have a fairly comprehensive distfiles, but there is the hassel of getting the data to the installfest ... BillK On Sat, 2004-07-17 at 10:44, plasma at kesshou.org wrote: > > I don't think we managed to sort that out... though that *may* change > > between now and then. > > I have an rsync mirror that I use for home.. I'll bring that in > > happily, and Bernard told me this morning that he's going to bring > > over a full package mirror 0.o > > Great! If you aren't too busy with other people at the installfest, I'd > love to grab a general idea on setting up an rsync server. Full package > mirror? Wow. ^^; > > Thanks, > Nathan Manzi > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From adam_ashley at softhome.net Sat Jul 17 13:06:16 2004 From: adam_ashley at softhome.net (Adam Ashley) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 13:06:16 +0800 Subject: [plug] Installfest - Gentoo installs? In-Reply-To: <1284.203.220.217.45.1090032290.squirrel@webmail.kesshou.org> References: <1275.203.220.217.45.1090031391.squirrel@webmail.kesshou.org> <1284.203.220.217.45.1090032290.squirrel@webmail.kesshou.org> Message-ID: <1090040776.8232.1.camel@localhost> On Sat, 2004-07-17 at 10:44 +0800, plasma at kesshou.org wrote: > > I don't think we managed to sort that out... though that *may* change > > between now and then. > > I have an rsync mirror that I use for home.. I'll bring that in > > happily, and Bernard told me this morning that he's going to bring > > over a full package mirror 0.o > > Great! If you aren't too busy with other people at the installfest, I'd > love to grab a general idea on setting up an rsync server. Full package > mirror? Wow. ^^; > I'd be happy to talk shop about this on sunday, for a little while early last year i ran on of the gentoo rsync servers, thinking about offering up the bandwidth again actually Adam From weirdo at tigris.org Sat Jul 17 17:12:08 2004 From: weirdo at tigris.org (Tim White) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 17:12:08 +0800 Subject: [plug] Login Restrictions Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20040717170923.01dde9a8@127.0.0.1> I wish to be able to prevent a user from local[1] login without preventing network access. I know that putting /bin/false in for their shell will prevent text based logins but not graphical logins. Also if there is a way to do this under WinXP and Win2k then please tell me as I have a few windows machines that I wish to lock down by preventing some users from local login[1]. Thanks Tim [1] Local login = Logging in at the physical terminal. I don't mind telnet or ssh weirdo AT tigris DOT org (MSN Enabled) | ICQ# 255176389 | Riverton, Perth, WA --- Computer languages are the only real universal languages From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Sat Jul 17 19:14:22 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 19:14:22 +0800 Subject: [plug] Login Restrictions In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20040717170923.01dde9a8@127.0.0.1> References: <6.1.2.0.2.20040717170923.01dde9a8@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <20040717111422.GA21481@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <6.1.2.0.2.20040717170923.01dde9a8 at 127.0.0.1> on Sat, Jul 17, 2004 at 05:12:08PM +0800, Tim White wrote: > I wish to be able to prevent a user from local[1] login without preventing > network access. I know that putting /bin/false in for their shell will > prevent text based logins but not graphical logins. Okay, don't change your users' shells (because that will interfere with SSH). Console text logins are usually mediated by processes called `getty` or `ttymon` (name varies with platform) which will then hand off to `login` once a username and password are entered. On your system, it is possible that `login` will use "PAM" for authentication. If so, have a look at /etc/security/access.conf. Make the appropriate additions, then enable this file by editing /etc/pam.d/login (search the latter for the string 'access.conf'). Be warned that I might be completely off track, so don't expect miracles ;-) As for console X11 logins, that might depend on your display manager (e.g. xdm, gdm, kdm). If yours uses PAM, then find the appropriate file in /etc/pam.d (e.g. /etc/pam.d/gdm) and make the same sort of modification that you made in /etc/pam.d/login. I'm just guessing. Maybe let us know whether it works, fails or locks you out of your system ;-) From nofixed at westnet.com.au Sat Jul 17 21:02:31 2004 From: nofixed at westnet.com.au (Jim Householder) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 21:02:31 +0800 Subject: [plug] firefox 0.9 In-Reply-To: <200407171629.08245.russ@powerstech.com> References: <200407171629.08245.russ@powerstech.com> Message-ID: <40F92367.3090300@westnet.com.au> Russ Powers wrote: > On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 03:08 pm, Mungo TheB wrote: > >>i managed to get JAVA working by folling the instructions at SUN site >> >>its the linking to the netscape plugin that will work (NOT the download >>plugin) > > > Well, java seems to work. I'm able to use the web site. > > But it is annoying to have that extension request pop up every time. And that > it downloaded all 14M and said i was a success, then didn't work. > I cannot even get the download. I visit a site, get the popup saying I need the plugin, click yes, and get the page with buttons for windows, international and linux. When I click on linux, nothing happens. Jim From caston at arach.net.au Sat Jul 17 22:46:53 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 22:46:53 +0800 Subject: [plug] Linux friendly accountants? In-Reply-To: <200407171232.02767@death.2.spammers> References: <1090038105.2181.33.camel@localhost> <200407171232.02767@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <1090075613.2170.3.camel@localhost> On Sat, 2004-07-17 at 12:32, Bernd Felsche wrote: > On Saturday 17 July 2004 12:21, Chris Caston wrote: > > > Does anyone know of an accountant or firm that is more than happy to > > work with OSS? > > Sorry; I can't see how OSS makes a difference to accountants. > Computers are just tools to accountants. Well all the accountants I know only use Windows and handle customers using stuff like MYOB and Quicken. Obviously this is not right for a business that runs all its systems on OSS. Otherwise I'm stuck doing all the accounting myself like I am now (in gnucash and OO.o calc) which is a big drain of my time and my creativity in other areas. Maybe I should just setup some good ERP. regards, Chris Caston From arie99 at ozemail.com.au Sat Jul 17 22:57:19 2004 From: arie99 at ozemail.com.au (Arie Hol) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 22:57:19 +0800 Subject: [plug] firefox 0.9 In-Reply-To: <200407171402.43280.russ@powerstech.com> Message-ID: <40F9AECF.18270.2F85CB@localhost> On 17 Jul 2004 at 14:02, Russ Powers wrote: > Hi, > > Anybody using firefox 0.9? > > I'm trying to figure out how to get it to import my firefox 0.8 bookmarks > (suppose I could just copy them into the appropriate directory). > > And I'm having a problem with the extensions manager. When I go to my bank > site, it comes up with a message saying I need to install the java 2 > extension. I replied yes, it downloaded, and then said it had installed > successfully. I went back to the site and the same message came up. So I shut > firefox down, restarted it, and went back to the site. Same message. > > Anybody run into this? Check out the forums at : http://forums.mozillazine.org/index.php?c=4 If you cannot find a thread that addresses your problem - start a new one - it won't take long for somebody "in the know" to respond to your post. There is a wealth of info available through the Mozillazine forums. HTH From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Sun Jul 18 00:45:57 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 00:45:57 +0800 Subject: [plug] hdparm troubles In-Reply-To: <200407171747.44506.sboak@westnet.com.au> References: <200407171114.06732.sboak@westnet.com.au> <1090049319.28058.58.camel@rasputin.localnet> <200407171747.44506.sboak@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <1090082756.28837.6.camel@rasputin.localnet> On Sat, 2004-07-17 at 17:47, Steve Boak wrote: > > Have you tried a recent kernel? Perhaps the via IDE drivers have > > improved for these boards. IIRC they're known to be a little eccentric > > and have had Linux support issues in the past. > > OK, how hard can it be to move up to 2.6 :-) I'd try 2.4.recent first. Why upgrade a whole major series just to /see/ if there are some driver improvements that might help? > > Do the boards have an IO-APIC? If yes, try booting with 'noapic' in case > > it's braindead. > Don't know, but tried it anyway - no difference :-( According to the below, your system is does not have or is not using an IO-APIC, so 'noapic' would not have any effect. > 14: 62866 XT-PIC ide0 > Does XT-PIC mean anything significant? Yes. It means your system is using the local APIC in the processor for interrupt handling, not an IO-APIC. I lack the knowledge to properly explain what the difference is, but AFAIK an IO-APIC provides a larger interrupt space and more efficient interrupt handling. > min:~# cat /proc/dma > 4: cascade > > How about cascaded dma? Is this important? Isn't DMA 4 (cascade) the DMA number reserved for activating the high range DMA addresses not supported in ancient hardware? I think it is just a legacy quirk of the i386 architecture (and always there). Well, I'm going to have to throw my hands up in the air. My next step would definitely be to fetch an up-to-date 2.4 kernel, just to see if there are any fixes/improvements that affect your problem. -- Craig Ringer From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Sun Jul 18 00:49:10 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 00:49:10 +0800 Subject: [plug] Login Restrictions In-Reply-To: <20040717111422.GA21481@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <6.1.2.0.2.20040717170923.01dde9a8@127.0.0.1> <20040717111422.GA21481@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <1090082949.28837.9.camel@rasputin.localnet> On Sat, 2004-07-17 at 19:14, James Devenish wrote: > In message <6.1.2.0.2.20040717170923.01dde9a8 at 127.0.0.1> > on Sat, Jul 17, 2004 at 05:12:08PM +0800, Tim White wrote: > > I wish to be able to prevent a user from local[1] login without preventing > > network access. I know that putting /bin/false in for their shell will > > prevent text based logins but not graphical logins. > > Okay, don't change your users' shells (because that will interfere with > SSH). Console text logins are usually mediated by processes called > `getty` or `ttymon` (name varies with platform) which will then hand off > to `login` once a username and password are entered. On your system, it > is possible that `login` will use "PAM" for authentication. If so, have > a look at /etc/security/access.conf. I'd also advise you to look at pam_console - it might provide a quick and easy solution. While it's normally used to _grant_ extra access to console users, it should be quite capable of doing the reverse. -- Craig Ringer From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Sun Jul 18 09:11:12 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 09:11:12 +0800 Subject: [plug] hdparm troubles In-Reply-To: <200407171728.39822.sboak@westnet.com.au> References: <20040717042505.0465778AC@spark.plug.linux.org.au> <200407171620.32271@death.2.spammers> <200407171728.39822.sboak@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <200407180911.12583@death.2.spammers> On Saturday 17 July 2004 17:28, Steve Boak wrote: > On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 04:20 pm, Bernd Felsche wrote: > > Just for you, I've just assembled a system with EPIA V C3 at 1GHz; > > and 512MB -- gross overkill but components were on the shelf except > > for the mainboard which was cheaper than the Eden. > > Wish I had that sort of kit 'just laying around' :-) Your processor is I don't; usually. Just happened to have picked up the mainboard from the post office. It's unfortunate that I had to order it in the first place. > twice the speed of mine, but that shouldn't make significant difference > to the dma speed. I also have 512MB of Ram. > > Those are the default settings detected at boot-up. I've not forced > > any parameters. Just let the drivers do their thing. > > clutch:/proc/ide # cat via > > ----------VIA BusMastering IDE Configuration---------------- > > Driver Version: 3.29 > > I have version 3.37 > > > South Bridge: VIA vt8231 > > Revision: ISA 0x10 IDE 0x6 > > Highest DMA rate: UDMA100 > > BM-DMA base: 0xe000 > > and 0xd000 here I can't see a reason for that to be different unless perhaps you have something plugged into the PCI. Unplug everything from the PCI and disable everything you're not using in the BIOS. BIOS is version 1.06 on the 1GHz V-Series. > > -----------------------Primary IDE-------Secondary IDE------ > > Cable Type: 80w 40w Make sure it's recognized the 80-wire cable on your system. If you have access to another Linux system, try the hard drive on that... could be a flakey drive. > min:~# hdparm -i /dev/hda > /dev/hda: [snip] > DMA modes: mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 > UDMA modes: udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 *udma5 > > Hmmm - it's gone to udma5 on it's own now. I work on the base assumption that the accummulated knowledge presented in the drivers is far greater than my own tenuous understanding. You might want to try a smaller MaxMultSect on WDC drives. See hdparm -m option description in the man pages. > > Timing buffer-cache reads: 128 MB in 1.25 seconds =102.40 MB/sec > > Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 3.16 seconds = 20.25 MB/sec > > Timing buffer-cache reads: 180 MB in 2.04 seconds = 88.24 MB/sec > Timing buffered disk reads: 12 MB in 3.27 seconds = 3.67 MB/sec This does look a bit sus'. Why had hdparm chosen a smaller size of transfer? The driver seems to have detected and chosen udma5; yet selected a smaller transfer volume appropriate for mdma or even pio. > > i.e. It looks like DMA works. Indeed more automagically than with > > the EPIA-M I tested earlier. > Wish it did on mine :-) -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Sun Jul 18 09:16:40 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 09:16:40 +0800 Subject: [plug] hdparm troubles In-Reply-To: <1090082756.28837.6.camel@rasputin.localnet> References: <200407171114.06732.sboak@westnet.com.au> <200407171747.44506.sboak@westnet.com.au> <1090082756.28837.6.camel@rasputin.localnet> Message-ID: <200407180916.40109@death.2.spammers> On Sunday 18 July 2004 00:45, Craig Ringer wrote: > On Sat, 2004-07-17 at 17:47, Steve Boak wrote: > > > Have you tried a recent kernel? Perhaps the via IDE drivers have > > > improved for these boards. IIRC they're known to be a little > > > eccentric and have had Linux support issues in the past. > > OK, how hard can it be to move up to 2.6 :-) > I'd try 2.4.recent first. Why upgrade a whole major series just to /see/ > if there are some driver improvements that might help? IIRC, he's running a newer kernel than I. It works with SuSE's build of 2.4.16. # cat /proc/ide/drivers ide-floppy version 0.97.sv ide-cdrom version 4.59 ide-disk version 1.11 I'd first confirm that the IDE cable is correct, that the drive functions "correctly" on another system, that another drive behaves as badly on the same system and that the BIOS is up to date. As outlined in another message; hdparm's behaviour is puzzling. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From myk at westnet.com.au Sun Jul 18 11:35:22 2004 From: myk at westnet.com.au (Michael Holland) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 11:35:22 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] firefox 0.9 In-Reply-To: <200407171402.43280.russ@powerstech.com> References: <200407171402.43280.russ@powerstech.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 17 Jul 2004, Russ Powers wrote: > Anybody using firefox 0.9? Yes, but finding it crashes occasionally. 0.8 might be better. > I'm trying to figure out how to get it to import my firefox 0.8 bookmarks Should be automatic the first time you run it. > (suppose I could just copy them into the appropriate directory). Yes. ~/.mozilla/firefox/default.??? > And I'm having a problem with the extensions manager. When I go to my bank > site, it comes up with a message saying I need to install the java 2 Try downloading from Sun, e.g. j2re-1_4_2_05-linux-i586-rpm.bin Then put a symbolic link in your firefox plugins directory to /usr/java/j2re*/plugin/i386/ns610-gcc32/libjavaplugin_oji.so > extension. I replied yes, it downloaded, and then said it had installed > successfully. I went back to the site and the same message came up. So I shut > firefox down, restarted it, and went back to the site. Same message. I hate those "wizards". Use the command line, Luke. -- Reading this .sig? So are your customers. From sboak at westnet.com.au Sun Jul 18 11:39:53 2004 From: sboak at westnet.com.au (Steve Boak) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 11:39:53 +0800 Subject: [plug] hdparm troubles In-Reply-To: <200407180916.40109@death.2.spammers> References: <200407171114.06732.sboak@westnet.com.au> <1090082756.28837.6.camel@rasputin.localnet> <200407180916.40109@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <200407181139.53771.sboak@westnet.com.au> On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 09:16 am, Bernd Felsche wrote: > On Sunday 18 July 2004 00:45, Craig Ringer wrote: > > I'd try 2.4.recent first. Why upgrade a whole major series just to /see/ > > if there are some driver improvements that might help? > > IIRC, he's running a newer kernel than I. It works with SuSE's build > of 2.4.16. Yep - 2.4.22, latest is only 2.4.26 - I'll leave this as-is for now. > > # cat /proc/ide/drivers > ide-floppy version 0.97.sv > ide-cdrom version 4.59 > ide-disk version 1.11 > Mine is ide-disk version 1.17 > I'd first confirm that the IDE cable is correct, that the drive > functions "correctly" on another system, that another drive behaves > as badly on the same system and that the BIOS is up to date. min:~# cat /proc/ide/via -----------------------Primary IDE-------Secondary IDE------ Cable Type: 80w 40w Previous drive, a Seagate 30Gb acted exactly the same - upgrading the drive was the reason for having another go at getting the performance up a bit. The bios was upgraded about 6 months ago (to enable USB booting) to the latest available for my board - EPIA Bios ver 1.06, 19/6/2003. I've checked and there is nothing newer available. > > As outlined in another message; hdparm's behaviour is puzzling. Every case of hdparm -Tt I have seen in messages has a different test block size - from the low 100's to around 2000MB - seems to be dynamic depending on the processor speed (and maybe memory capacity)? I think I will drop this to background priority for now and investigate the possibility of strangeness in the Via chipset or driver patches. Thanks heaps to all who have helped on this, I'll report back to the list anything I find that may be a help to anyone else later. Steve -- VOIP-Phone - Free World Dialup number 454566 - Via 128k ISDN "Most men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and continue on as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill From John.Usher at perth.maptek.com.au Sun Jul 18 11:42:37 2004 From: John.Usher at perth.maptek.com.au (John Usher) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 11:42:37 +0800 Subject: [plug] Login Restrictions In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20040717170923.01dde9a8@127.0.0.1> References: <6.1.2.0.2.20040717170923.01dde9a8@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <40F9F1AD.30303@perth.maptek.com.au> Tim White wrote: > Also if there is a way to do this under WinXP and Win2k then please > tell me as I have a few windows machines that I wish to lock down by > preventing some users from local login[1]. > Thanks As tersely as possible: Administrative Tools->Local Security Policy->Local Policies->User Rights Assignment->Log on locally ...John... From weirdo at tigris.org Sun Jul 18 11:49:09 2004 From: weirdo at tigris.org (Tim White) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 11:49:09 +0800 Subject: [plug] DVD Distro with Remote Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20040718114256.01d9e010@127.0.0.1> Looking at turning a nice laptop into a part time DVD player. As windows sucks at lots of stuff and I like the Linux DVD players better (Played with Xine, and Mplayer) I would like to dual boot it. This will also hopefully be faster than booting into windows. I need a DVD Distro that will basically just boot straight into the DVD player and play DVD's. IT would be nice if it could also play music and DivX's, Xvids and other compressed video files. The main feature I need is remote control functionality. Windows doesn't allow you to use the Infared port for that as it's drivers have complete control of it for file transfers. I have boot KNOPPIX and used XMMS to test the remote and it works fine. If I can't get a Distro that has all this then I will build one my self from a KNOPPIX CD but I need to know what DVD software has remote support and how easy it is to use. Thanks Tim p.s. Windows also does funny stuff with the sound card when playing DVD's as it likes to mute it when I press pause. I would also still like to be able to use the volume buttons on the keyboard and/or remote but this isn't as important. weirdo AT tigris DOT org (MSN Enabled) | ICQ# 255176389 | Riverton, Perth, WA --- Computer languages are the only real universal languages From darts at dialix.com.au Sun Jul 18 17:07:17 2004 From: darts at dialix.com.au (Dave Dartnall) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 17:07:17 +0800 Subject: [Plug] Mysql installation In-Reply-To: <1089807211.5221.8.camel@rattus.Localdomain> References: <200407141731.15960.darts@dialix.com.au> <1089807211.5221.8.camel@rattus.Localdomain> Message-ID: <200407181707.17851.darts@dialix.com.au> On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 08:13 pm, William Kenworthy wrote: > I cant remember if you mentioned it - but have you checked the mysql > logs? On gentoo they are in /var/log/mysql, not sure 'bout Mandrake. No I didn't. > rattus root # ls -al /var/log/mysql/ > total 1077989 > drwxr-xr-x 2 mysql mysql 112 Mar 20 12:46 . > drwxr-xr-x 21 root root 1256 Jul 14 07:03 .. > -rw-rw---- 1 mysql mysql 52836 Jul 14 07:03 mysql.err > -rw-rw---- 1 mysql mysql 1102726729 Jul 14 20:10 mysql.log > > (hmmm, I may need to check logrotate ...) > > > There is also a /etc/mysql directory with some config files - did you > remove them too? Yes, I did that... > rattus root # ls -al /etc/mysql > total 15 > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 104 Dec 22 2003 . > drwxr-xr-x 112 root root 7256 Jul 14 07:03 .. > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1229 May 23 10:03 my.cnf > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1702 May 23 10:03 mysqlaccess.conf > > lastly, how are you starting the daemon? As I understood the installation docs the server was to start at bootup but that didn't seem to happen. Then I tried 'mysqld_safe --user=mysql &' as set out in the file 'mysqlinstall' with the response to the effect that it couldn't find the socket.... Then I found a detailed series of explanation of various causes of access denied errors in 'MySQL-4.0.18 /manual.html#Common_errors' section 5.4.9 which seemed to be putting me on the right track - but I got pissed off after spending the best part of a day and a half on it, got rid of mysql as far as possible and tried postgresql - with success! So I apologise for wasting your time - please accept my thanks for trying to help. regards Dave D From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Sun Jul 18 19:29:28 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 19:29:28 +0800 Subject: [plug] Stuff left behind at the Installfest Message-ID: <20040718112928.GA16694@patrick.wattle.id.au> Hi all, I took a few items home from the Installfest belonging to others that were left over at the end of the day. * NICs belonging to Computer Angels. * Access point belonging to Matt Kemner (I think). * Keyboard belonging to unknown. Distinctive "Diamond Touch Keyboard" with the Windows key replaced with a sticker saying "fuckit". * Side panel of some computer case. I'm not sure who took this back or whether it's still at Commander, or whether it was claimed by its owner before we left. If the owner of the keyboard would like it back, please contact me off-list. Cameron. From scott at LinuxIT.com.au Sun Jul 18 19:41:42 2004 From: scott at LinuxIT.com.au (Scott Middleton) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 19:41:42 +0800 Subject: [plug] Congrats on the installfest Message-ID: <1090150902.1826.251.camel@virgo.srgw.linuxit.com.au.201.168.192.in-addr.arpa> Congratulations to the committee on the success of the installfest. Particularly to Cameron and Bernard, that installer was fantastic, I don't think i have ever installed Mandrake so fast :) It seemed to me to be a very professional job and well executed. There just simply wasn't the room for everybody. Whens the next one? Regards -- Scott Middleton From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Sun Jul 18 19:44:43 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 19:44:43 +0800 Subject: [plug] Congrats on the installfest In-Reply-To: <1090150902.1826.251.camel@virgo.srgw.linuxit.com.au.201.168.192.in-addr.arpa> References: <1090150902.1826.251.camel@virgo.srgw.linuxit.com.au.201.168.192.in-addr.arpa> Message-ID: <20040718114443.GA2103@cp.yi.org> Scott Middleton wrote: > Whens the next one? Aaaaaaaaaaargh!! Cameron. From bernard at blackham.com.au Sun Jul 18 19:48:09 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 19:48:09 +0800 Subject: [plug] Installfest aftermath Message-ID: <20040718114809.GA15034@blackham.com.au> I think it's safe to say it was a success! About 60 or so people turned up, some installees, some installers, some just having a look. Thanks must go to ... - Commander, for the venue and an underutilised server :) - Scott & Matt from LinuxIT, for their server, CDs (many CDs!), and knowledge - Cameron, for tireless days and nights getting the netbooting Installfest CD running, running around, amongst countless other things - Marcus, for the place, the idea, general "stuff", and forcing a BBQ into a van that was never meant to be. - Adrian, for slicing up the pre-sliced hotdog buns ;) - Mark for manning the rego desk, and generally being organised. - The crew from CTV for recording bits and pieces of the event to promote Linux and Open Source (heading to Channel 31 sometime soon) - Everybody else that turned up yesterday and early this morning to setup - Installers, instalees, people loaning gear, and the idly curious :) (why does this sound like an emmy awards speech?...) Well, I hope everybody enjoyed it and got something out of it all. I think I did :) Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From bernard at blackham.com.au Sun Jul 18 19:53:34 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 19:53:34 +0800 Subject: [plug] Congrats on the installfest In-Reply-To: <1090150902.1826.251.camel@virgo.srgw.linuxit.com.au.201.168.192.in-addr.arpa> References: <1090150902.1826.251.camel@virgo.srgw.linuxit.com.au.201.168.192.in-addr.arpa> Message-ID: <20040718115334.GH2573@blackham.com.au> On Sun, Jul 18, 2004 at 07:41:42PM +0800, Scott Middleton wrote: > Whens the next one? On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 09:29:48AM +0000, Senectus - wrote: > I had a chat with the boss.. and he's quiet happy with the idea of > using some of our ample room for an installfest. 68 days from when the next bright spark speaks up? ;) (I'm actually not too terrified to schedule one for early December or thereabouts? Not sure if the rest of the committee are with me though ;) On Sun, Jul 18, 2004 at 07:44:43PM +0800, Cameron Patrick wrote: > Aaaaaaaaaaargh!! Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au Sun Jul 18 20:01:18 2004 From: harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au (Harry) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 20:01:18 +0800 Subject: [plug] Congrats on the installfest In-Reply-To: <20040718114443.GA2103@cp.yi.org> References: <1090150902.1826.251.camel@virgo.srgw.linuxit.com.au.201.168.192.in-addr.arpa> <20040718114443.GA2103@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <20040718200118.2845f4a8.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 19:44:43 +0800 Cameron Patrick wrote: > Scott Middleton wrote: > > Whens the next one? > > Aaaaaaaaaaargh!! Steady there. But seriously, should the Mark G Box-o-PLUG-Stuff contain a Wizard or similar with a 120GB drive and latest distros so Flash InstallFests are possible ? BoPS and it's operatives could just appear at a moment (or five)'s notice and spread Linux goodness into computer hardware. Perhaps we could get buskers license for Street Software like those balloon guys. Well ... ok ... bit too progressive atm. But you get the idea. Linux-to-GoGo. Harry -- Are you a computer angel? http://www.computerangels.org.au/ From bernard at blackham.com.au Sun Jul 18 20:17:16 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 20:17:16 +0800 Subject: [plug] Installfest aftermath In-Reply-To: <20040718114809.GA15034@blackham.com.au> References: <20040718114809.GA15034@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: <20040718121715.GJ2573@blackham.com.au> On Sun, Jul 18, 2004 at 07:48:09PM +0800, Bernard Blackham wrote: > Thanks must go to ... - Harry and Computer Angels for loan of some NICs for installations - Harry for achieving amazing feats with a marker and a roll of yellow sticky tape :) - and anybody else I forgot ... sorry Harry :) Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From weirdo at tigris.org Sun Jul 18 20:19:44 2004 From: weirdo at tigris.org (Tim White) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 20:19:44 +0800 Subject: [plug] Windows Linux Samba problem Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20040718193700.01d97b48@127.0.0.1> Recently I emailed the list about a samba problem I was having regarding a Windows Box and a Linux Box. The problem is as follows: Samba traffic between: The windows computers[1] and my Linux workstation[2] crawls to a halt. The windows computers and my Linux server[3] is fine. The windows computers is fine. My Linux server and my Linux workstation is fine. The Linux server and windows computers and my Linux workstation when it has dual booted into WindowsXP is fine. All other network traffic that I have tested (ftp, ssh, pop3, nfs)[4] flows alright between all the computers. From memory from the last thread I Managed to copy a file from the Linux Workstation to the Win2k Box and windows created a placeholder for the file but didn't copy any data and failed with a message but failed to remove the placed holder that was exactly the right size except full of garbage (what ever was on the disk in the blocks that the placeholder referenced.) Trying to copy some files from the Xp box to the Linux workstation resulted in a "Path to deep" error. I managed to get the 300Mb worth of photos to the workstation by copying them to the Linux server and the over NFS to the Linux box(I didn't have time to check to see if I had ftp installed as it was disabled). After enabling ftp this evening I managed to copy a 500Mb file from the Linux workstation to the XP box in reasonable time.[4] All computers are connected through the same 100Mbit switch and it doesn't matter which cables are used. This isn't the first installation that this has happened on and it may not be the same computer. The previous time it was on Debian(Some version just before 3.0) and I tried updating samba to 3. Not long after that I scrapped that hard drive so I didn't get to test if that worked. As this workstation is running Samba 3.0.1 I don't think it was an old samba problem. Ifconfig shows that eth0 has had 272 errors and it increases every time a samba packet flows when it is crawling to a halt. No dropped or overrun packets. I'm out of ideas. Thanks Tim p.s. I like the samba function to filter out visible and/or accessible files. No longer am I sharing executables, dll's, windows system files and windows password files. [1] 1 Win2k (P3 800), 1 WinXP(P2 400), Identical network cards. On Workgroup "Workgroup" [2] Knoppix HD install 3.4, Samba 3.0.1 On Workgroup "Workgroup" Intel desktop board. 3Com (3c905C) network card [3] Debian 3.0r1 Samba 2.2.3a-12 On Domain/Workgroup "White.lan" (It has been set up as a domain controller) [4] Speed test copying file over ftp from Linux Workstation to WindowsXP computer ftp: 515253748 bytes received in 312.53Seconds 1648.66Kbytes/sec. weirdo AT tigris DOT org (MSN Enabled) | ICQ# 255176389 | Riverton, Perth, WA --- Computer languages are the only real universal languages From scott at LinuxIT.com.au Sun Jul 18 20:39:17 2004 From: scott at LinuxIT.com.au (Scott Middleton) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 20:39:17 +0800 Subject: [plug] Installfest aftermath In-Reply-To: <20040718121715.GJ2573@blackham.com.au> References: <20040718114809.GA15034@blackham.com.au> <20040718121715.GJ2573@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: <1090154357.1826.255.camel@virgo.srgw.linuxit.com.au.201.168.192.in-addr.arpa> On Sun, 2004-07-18 at 20:17, Bernard Blackham wrote: > On Sun, Jul 18, 2004 at 07:48:09PM +0800, Bernard Blackham wrote: > > Thanks must go to ... > > - Harry and Computer Angels for loan of some NICs for installations > - Harry for achieving amazing feats with a marker and a roll of > yellow sticky tape :) > > - and anybody else I forgot ... sorry Harry :) Who supplied the Gb switch. That saved many an hour! Regards -- Scott Middleton From senectus at gmail.com Sun Jul 18 21:37:31 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 21:37:31 +0800 Subject: [plug] Stuff left behind at the Installfest In-Reply-To: <20040718112928.GA16694@patrick.wattle.id.au> References: <20040718112928.GA16694@patrick.wattle.id.au> Message-ID: Heh.. the keyboards mine.. :-P the fuckit sticker is on the ctrl or alt button on the bottom right hand side :-D On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 19:29:28 +0800, Cameron Patrick wrote: > Hi all, > > I took a few items home from the Installfest belonging to others that > were left over at the end of the day. > > * NICs belonging to Computer Angels. > > * Access point belonging to Matt Kemner (I think). > > * Keyboard belonging to unknown. Distinctive "Diamond Touch > Keyboard" with the Windows key replaced with a sticker > saying "fuckit". > > * Side panel of some computer case. I'm not sure who took > this back or whether it's still at Commander, or whether it > was claimed by its owner before we left. > > If the owner of the keyboard would like it back, please contact me > off-list. > > Cameron. > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Sun Jul 18 22:09:09 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:09:09 +0800 Subject: [plug] Installfest aftermath In-Reply-To: <1090154357.1826.255.camel@virgo.srgw.linuxit.com.au.201.168.192.in-addr.arpa> References: <20040718114809.GA15034@blackham.com.au> <20040718121715.GJ2573@blackham.com.au> <1090154357.1826.255.camel@virgo.srgw.linuxit.com.au.201.168.192.in-addr.arpa> Message-ID: <20040718140908.GC2103@cp.yi.org> Scott Middleton wrote: > Who supplied the Gb switch. That saved many an hour! Marcus (actually Commander) supplied that. I think we should also thank Bernard, for getting the whole thing going once Marcus gave us a nudge with a venue. And also for doing hideous things with LaTeX to generate the LCA2003 name tags, giving me the scripts to generate them so that I could wrestle them into submission to create name tags for the installfest helpers. Cameron. From caston at arach.net.au Sun Jul 18 22:23:08 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:23:08 +0800 Subject: [plug] Installfest aftermath In-Reply-To: <20040718140908.GC2103@cp.yi.org> References: <20040718114809.GA15034@blackham.com.au> <20040718121715.GJ2573@blackham.com.au> <1090154357.1826.255.camel@virgo.srgw.linuxit.com.au.201.168.192.in-addr.arpa> <20040718140908.GC2103@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <1090160588.2102.10.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2004-07-18 at 22:09, Cameron Patrick wrote: > Scott Middleton wrote: > > Who supplied the Gb switch. That saved many an hour! > > Marcus (actually Commander) supplied that. > > I think we should also thank Bernard, for getting the whole thing > going once Marcus gave us a nudge with a venue. And also for doing > hideous things with LaTeX to generate the LCA2003 name tags, giving me > the scripts to generate them so that I could wrestle them into > submission to create name tags for the installfest helpers. > > Cameron. > Lets no forget that several more people joined up to the ranks of PLUG membership thanks to Mark at the counter and everyone that helped with the design of the cards and the laminate machine. > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From apolglaze at book-keepingnetwork.com.au Sun Jul 18 22:13:15 2004 From: apolglaze at book-keepingnetwork.com.au (Alex Polglaze) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:13:15 +0800 Subject: [plug] Linux friendly accountants? In-Reply-To: <1090075613.2170.3.camel@localhost> References: <1090038105.2181.33.camel@localhost> <200407171232.02767@death.2.spammers> <1090075613.2170.3.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <40FA857B.4010003@book-keepingnetwork.com.au> Chris Caston wrote: >>>Does anyone know of an accountant or firm that is more than happy to >>>work with OSS? >> >>Sorry; I can't see how OSS makes a difference to accountants. >>Computers are just tools to accountants. > > > Well all the accountants I know only use Windows and handle customers > using stuff like MYOB and Quicken. Obviously this is not right for a > business that runs all its systems on OSS. > > Otherwise I'm stuck doing all the accounting myself like I am now (in > gnucash and OO.o calc) which is a big drain of my time and my creativity > in other areas. FWIW, we do book-keeping for other businesses. We use our own software developed over many years and now, for the last 4 years, we have been running on Linux. We supply all the necessary info to our clients accountants. This is not and advert, really :-), just for general information. Alex From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Mon Jul 19 00:31:09 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 00:31:09 +0800 Subject: [Plug] Mysql installation In-Reply-To: <200407181707.17851.darts@dialix.com.au> References: <200407141731.15960.darts@dialix.com.au> <1089807211.5221.8.camel@rattus.Localdomain> <200407181707.17851.darts@dialix.com.au> Message-ID: <1090168268.31176.10.camel@rasputin.localnet> On Sun, 2004-07-18 at 17:07, Dave Dartnall wrote: > Then I tried 'mysqld_safe --user=mysql &' as set out in the file > 'mysqlinstall' with the response to the effect that it couldn't find the > socket.... Possibly the distributor placed the socket file in a different place (this is quite common). > Then I found a detailed series of explanation of various causes of access > denied errors in 'MySQL-4.0.18 /manual.html#Common_errors' section 5.4.9 > which seemed to be putting me on the right track - but I got pissed off after > spending the best part of a day and a half on it Oh, yeah. I'm far too familar with that. There are lot of things I like about OSS, but that's not one of them. On the other hand, I've also wasted days trying to get things working on systems I've paid a lot of money for, usually with tech support who're either not helpful or even more expensive than the software. So I should stop complaining ;-) > got rid of mysql as far as > possible and tried postgresql - with success! The PostgreSQL database access controls seem considerably less flexible than MySQL's, but so _very_ much easier to use. Anyway, PostgreSQL provides excellent in-database access control, which helps offset that. You're better off with PostgreSQL anyway, IMHO. It'll save you the pain of a DB server migration once you outgrow MySQL and want *ahem* "fancy" features like stored procedures (esp in external languages), triggers, constraints, referential integrity enforcement, and transactions (yes, in fairness 4.0 does have transactions on InnoDB tables). > So I apologise for wasting your time - please accept my thanks for trying to > help. Heh. One tip for future reference is that distributors often change things about the software they're distributing, but rarely bother to update the documentation that shipped with the software - especially install documentation. This is irritating, but understandable given how much they need to do to get a release out the door. Very common changes include defaults, file locations, authentication methods (ie use PAM instead of old-style UNIX auth functions), socket locations, disabling network access, and changing the way services are started. They generally do this to make all the software more consistent and to make it work as an admin expects... but at the cost of causing it to differ somewhat from the install docs. I'm coming rather late to this thread, so if I'm completely misreading things, I'm sorry. -- Craig Ringer From bernard at blackham.com.au Mon Jul 19 02:44:21 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 02:44:21 +0800 Subject: [plug] Installfest aftermath In-Reply-To: <1090154357.1826.255.camel@virgo.srgw.linuxit.com.au.201.168.192.in-addr.arpa> References: <20040718114809.GA15034@blackham.com.au> <20040718121715.GJ2573@blackham.com.au> <1090154357.1826.255.camel@virgo.srgw.linuxit.com.au.201.168.192.in-addr.arpa> Message-ID: <20040718184421.GA2239@blackham.com.au> On Sun, Jul 18, 2004 at 08:39:17PM +0800, Scott Middleton wrote: > Who supplied the Gb switch. That saved many an hour! Ahh, yes. HP loaned that to us, through Commander. Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Mon Jul 19 08:02:53 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 08:02:53 +0800 Subject: [Plug] Mysql installation In-Reply-To: <1090168268.31176.10.camel@rasputin.localnet> References: <200407141731.15960.darts@dialix.com.au> <1089807211.5221.8.camel@rattus.Localdomain> <200407181707.17851.darts@dialix.com.au> <1090168268.31176.10.camel@rasputin.localnet> Message-ID: <20040719000253.GB16070@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <40BD7742.9000002 at postnewspapers.com.au> on Wed, Jun 02, 2004 at 02:44:18PM +0800, Craig Ringer wrote: > [of MySQL...] at least it now supports transactions In message <1090168268.31176.10.camel at rasputin.localnet> on Mon, Jul 19, 2004 at 12:31:09AM +0800, Craig Ringer wrote: > [of MySQL...] in fairness 4.0 does have transactions on InnoDB tables). Hmm, because of the way you keep saying that, I was about to pointedly pronounce that "version 3 of MySQL that's in *Debian woody* supports transactions, and you can hardly call that new!" ;-) However, I just tried it and it didn't seem to work. I have no idea why this is, as it works fine on machines where I've custom-installed MySQL. I'm not sure if this is due to the way the Debian machine is configured, or whether its package missed out on transactions by a margin of about one subversion number. ? From paul at sdmgroup.com.au Mon Jul 19 10:04:55 2004 From: paul at sdmgroup.com.au (Paul Arch) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 10:04:55 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] Wizard PC Message-ID: <14a401c46d34$c9466fa0$0401050a@cel2000> Hi, I know a few people on this list were using Wizard PCs (from Netway) as various linux enabled devices. I am setting one up as firewall/router for my home internet access (e-wire). A few months ago I brought a DUB-100 USB-> ethernet adapter to act as my secondary network card. I have recently found out this works quite well with linux ( I am using SuSE 9.1), so should work well with Wizard PC. But I remember the USB lead that came with the wizard PCs was incorrectly wired. At the time of purchase, I didnt require usb so I didnt take to much notice. I now need usb :) Does anyone know the pinout of what the lead to the mobo should be ? If I can remember, it was only a matter of swapping 2 wires around ? Cheers Paul Arch Software Engineer S.D.M. Group Pty. Ltd. http://www.sdmgroup.com.au From dsbrown at cyllene.uwa.edu.au Mon Jul 19 10:22:36 2004 From: dsbrown at cyllene.uwa.edu.au (Denis Brown) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 10:22:36 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] Wizard PC In-Reply-To: <14a401c46d34$c9466fa0$0401050a@cel2000> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040719101950.02fcca20@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> At 10:04 19/07/2004 +0800, Paul Arch wrote: >Hi, > > I know a few people on this list were using Wizard PCs (from Netway) as >various linux enabled devices. > Does anyone know the pinout of what the lead to the mobo should be ? If I >can remember, it was only a matter of swapping 2 wires around ? According to the manual... Connector CN5 1 - USBVCC1 2 - D1F- 3 - D1F+ 4 - GND 5 - USBVCC2 6 - D2F- 7 - D2F+ 8, 9 and 10 all GND Hope this helps, Denis From paul at sdmgroup.com.au Mon Jul 19 10:26:35 2004 From: paul at sdmgroup.com.au (Paul Arch) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 10:26:35 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] Wizard PC References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040719101950.02fcca20@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <14d001c46d37$d04b2130$0401050a@cel2000> > > Does anyone know the pinout of what the lead to the mobo should be ? If I > >can remember, it was only a matter of swapping 2 wires around ? > > According to the manual... > Connector CN5 > 1 - USBVCC1 > 2 - D1F- > 3 - D1F+ > 4 - GND > 5 - USBVCC2 > 6 - D2F- > 7 - D2F+ > 8, 9 and 10 all GND > You wouldnt know which colours represent what ? Are the colours used standard ? Cheers From harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au Mon Jul 19 10:31:23 2004 From: harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au (Harry) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 10:31:23 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] Wizard PC In-Reply-To: <14a401c46d34$c9466fa0$0401050a@cel2000> References: <14a401c46d34$c9466fa0$0401050a@cel2000> Message-ID: <20040719103123.40bfaee4.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 10:04:55 +0800 "Paul Arch" wrote: > But I remember the USB lead that came with the wizard PCs was incorrectly > wired. > Does anyone know the pinout of what the lead to the mobo should be ? If I > can remember, it was only a matter of swapping 2 wires around ? Hi Paul I think mine was already corrected by Netway. Make sure you don't swap it _back_ and rune your USB-NIC. I don't have the mods close to hand because I didn't need to correct it. I'm not using USB either. Harry -- Are you a computer angel? http://www.computerangels.org.au/ From sboak at westnet.com.au Mon Jul 19 10:55:45 2004 From: sboak at westnet.com.au (Steve Boak) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 10:55:45 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] Wizard PC In-Reply-To: <14d001c46d37$d04b2130$0401050a@cel2000> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040719101950.02fcca20@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> <14d001c46d37$d04b2130$0401050a@cel2000> Message-ID: <200407191055.45361.sboak@westnet.com.au> On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 10:26 am, Paul Arch wrote: > > > Does anyone know the pinout of what the lead to the mobo should be ? > > If I > > > >can remember, it was only a matter of swapping 2 wires around ? > > > > According to the manual... > > Connector CN5 > > You wouldnt know which colours represent what ? Are the colours used > standard ? As connected on my wizard box (which works :) 1 - USBVCC1 - red 2 - D1F- - white 3 - D1F+ - green 4 - GND1 - black 5 - USBVCC2 - red 6 - D2F- - white 7 - D2F+ - green 8 - GND2 - black 9 - Shield1 0 - Shield2 Steve -- VOIP-Phone - Free World Dialup number 454566 - Via 128k ISDN "Most men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and continue on as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill From sboak at westnet.com.au Mon Jul 19 11:12:01 2004 From: sboak at westnet.com.au (Steve Boak) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 11:12:01 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] Wizard PC - correction In-Reply-To: <200407191055.45361.sboak@westnet.com.au> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040719101950.02fcca20@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> <14d001c46d37$d04b2130$0401050a@cel2000> <200407191055.45361.sboak@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <200407191112.01953.sboak@westnet.com.au> On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 10:55 am, Steve Boak wrote: > On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 10:26 am, Paul Arch wrote: > > > > Does anyone know the pinout of what the lead to the mobo should be ? > > > > If I > > > > > >can remember, it was only a matter of swapping 2 wires around ? > > > > > > According to the manual... > > > Connector CN5 > > > > You wouldnt know which colours represent what ? Are the colours used > > standard ? > > As connected on my wizard box (which works :) > > 1 - USBVCC1 - red > 2 - D1F- - white > 3 - D1F+ - green > 4 - GND1 - black > 5 - USBVCC2 - red > 6 - D2F- - white > 7 - D2F+ - green > 8 - GND2 - black > 9 - Shield1 > 0 - Shield2 ^^ should be '10' Steve -- VOIP-Phone - Free World Dialup number 454566 - Via 128k ISDN "Most men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and continue on as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill From paul at sdmgroup.com.au Mon Jul 19 11:24:49 2004 From: paul at sdmgroup.com.au (Paul Arch) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 11:24:49 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] Wizard PC - correction References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040719101950.02fcca20@cyllene.uwa.edu.au><14d001c46d37$d04b2130$0401050a@cel2000><200407191055.45361.sboak@westnet.com.au> <200407191112.01953.sboak@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <152601c46d3f$f2f20110$0401050a@cel2000> > > As connected on my wizard box (which works :) > > > > 1 - USBVCC1 - red > > 2 - D1F- - white > > 3 - D1F+ - green > > 4 - GND1 - black > > 5 - USBVCC2 - red > > 6 - D2F- - white > > 7 - D2F+ - green > > 8 - GND2 - black > > 9 - Shield1 > > 0 - Shield2 > ^^ should be '10' > Yep, thanks steve works a treat now :) For whoever is interested, I am using Dlink DUB-E100 USB->Ethernet adapter, sourced from Harris Technology ~ $55 cheers From bernard at blackham.com.au Mon Jul 19 20:28:16 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 20:28:16 +0800 Subject: [plug] Testing ... Message-ID: <20040719122816.GT2239@blackham.com.au> Curious why there hasn't been an email since 11:26 ... -- Bernard Blackham From nofixed at westnet.com.au Mon Jul 19 20:33:04 2004 From: nofixed at westnet.com.au (Jim Householder) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 20:33:04 +0800 Subject: [Plug] Mysql installation In-Reply-To: <200407181707.17851.darts@dialix.com.au> References: <200407141731.15960.darts@dialix.com.au> <1089807211.5221.8.camel@rattus.Localdomain> <200407181707.17851.darts@dialix.com.au> Message-ID: <40FBBF80.6010405@westnet.com.au> > spending the best part of a day and a half on it, got rid of mysql as far as > possible and tried postgresql - with success! > So I apologise for wasting your time - please accept my thanks for trying to > help. > Time *not* wasted - learning experience! :-) From sboak at westnet.com.au Mon Jul 19 20:36:46 2004 From: sboak at westnet.com.au (Steve Boak) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 20:36:46 +0800 Subject: [plug] Testing ... In-Reply-To: <20040719122816.GT2239@blackham.com.au> References: <20040719122816.GT2239@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: <200407192036.46295.sboak@westnet.com.au> On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 08:28 pm, Bernard Blackham wrote: > Curious why there hasn't been an email since 11:26 ... Me too - but I got yours :-) Steve -- VOIP-Phone - Free World Dialup number 454566 - Via 128k ISDN "Most men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and continue on as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill From brad at wasp.net.au Mon Jul 19 20:39:35 2004 From: brad at wasp.net.au (Brad Campbell) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 16:39:35 +0400 Subject: [plug] Testing ... In-Reply-To: <20040719122816.GT2239@blackham.com.au> References: <20040719122816.GT2239@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: <40FBC107.3020606@wasp.net.au> Bernard Blackham wrote: > Curious why there hasn't been an email since 11:26 ... > Wewe aww out hunting wabbits! From harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au Mon Jul 19 20:47:41 2004 From: harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au (Harry) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 20:47:41 +0800 Subject: [plug] Testing ... In-Reply-To: <20040719122816.GT2239@blackham.com.au> References: <20040719122816.GT2239@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: <20040719204741.73bfd186.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 20:28:16 +0800 Bernard Blackham wrote: > Curious why there hasn't been an email since 11:26 ... The noisiest contributors are recovering from Installfest ;-) Or in CP's case .. still on a bus somewhere. CP returned the NICs today despite my protests that here was no urgency. I administered strong brewed coffee and sent him on his way. So if he looks like he's still coming down off a caffeine episode, it's my fault. Thanks anyway Cameron. Harry From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Mon Jul 19 21:04:06 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:04:06 +0800 Subject: [plug] Testing ... In-Reply-To: <20040719204741.73bfd186.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> References: <20040719122816.GT2239@blackham.com.au> <20040719204741.73bfd186.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> Message-ID: <20040719130406.GA22801@patrick.wattle.id.au> Harry wrote: > > Curious why there hasn't been an email since 11:26 ... > The noisiest contributors are recovering from Installfest ;-) Dunno about that, Chris and I were there on Sunday, but Craig and James were otherwise occupied... > Or in CP's case .. still on a bus somewhere. I managed to find my way quite successfully from your place to LinuxIT despite my unfamiliarity with that side of the river and the bus driver's insistence that route 881 went nowhere near South St. (It actually passes the bus stop right outside Linux IT, on the corner of South and Carrington.) I think I got Matt's AP back to him before the wireless withdrawal symptoms had set in too badly ;-) Cameron. From vk6ksj at westnet.com.au Tue Jul 20 04:36:01 2004 From: vk6ksj at westnet.com.au (Kai) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 04:36:01 +0800 Subject: [plug] Lindows, I mean Lind--- I mean Linspire, has prevailed ?! Message-ID: <40FC30B1.2070407@westnet.com.au> When I read that headline I was expecting Microsoft to have tried to coax Robertson into some stupid agreement which would've made the settlement even more useless than the US DoJ vs MS "settlement", sure, USD $20 million is chicken feed for them but it's better than what they could've tried to do ! Microsoft settles L-----s dispute http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/07/19/microsoft_linspire_settlement/ I really like this quote: "All I know is that I'm being sued for unfair business practices by Microsoft. Hello pot? It's kettle on line two," he said when Microsoft first opened fire two and half years ago. :P Cheers Kai -- currently in Karlstad, V?rmland, Sverige From jtwarwick at iinet.net.au Tue Jul 20 06:59:20 2004 From: jtwarwick at iinet.net.au (Jay Warwick) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 06:59:20 +0800 Subject: [plug] newbie - output from antivirus program Message-ID: <1090277959.2593.6.camel@holin01.jtajt.local> Yesterday I downloaded f-prot antivirus so I would have some measure of security on my system. I also setup cron jobs to - 1. Check for daily updates and 2. Weekly scan of system But as I am setting these jobs to be done at 4am, how do I check they are actually being done? I figure I need to create a text file where it will output the information for me to look at later. Do I do this as part of the cron job or do I set it up somewhere else? thanks JW From mark at musicalstoat.co.uk Tue Jul 20 11:03:31 2004 From: mark at musicalstoat.co.uk (Mark O'Shea) Date: 20 Jul 2004 11:03:31 +0800 Subject: [plug] newbie - output from antivirus program In-Reply-To: <1090277959.2593.6.camel@holin01.jtajt.local> References: <1090277959.2593.6.camel@holin01.jtajt.local> Message-ID: <1090292613.962.4.camel@anya> On Tue, 2004-07-20 at 06:59, Jay Warwick wrote: > Yesterday I downloaded f-prot antivirus so I would have some measure of > security on my system. I also setup cron jobs to - > 1. Check for daily updates and > 2. Weekly scan of system > > But as I am setting these jobs to be done at 4am, how do I check they > are actually being done? I figure I need to create a text file where it > will output the information for me to look at later. Do I do this as > part of the cron job or do I set it up somewhere else? > Well, you'd probably be better off using the logging and emailing output facilities of cron to check this. The logs will tell you what ran and when, and the email will have the output of the job (std out and st err if they haven't been redirected elsewhere). See: man 8 cron for details. Regards, -- Mark From leon at brooks.fdns.net Tue Jul 20 11:16:12 2004 From: leon at brooks.fdns.net (Leon Brooks) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:16:12 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] props to Harris Technology In-Reply-To: References: <40F6096A.3080001@tehvand.com> Message-ID: <200407201116.12804.leon@brooks.fdns.net> On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:51, Michael wrote: > The Netgeam DM602 modems are bad. The chipset they use is the same as > a DLink DSL302G, both modems have connection & reliability problems & > should never have been sold at all. Kinda like LT modems :) Admittedly, it's predecessor died a slow and horrible death, the coup de grace being when ArachNet tried to flash it and it went completely toes-up. Sorry to interrupt, ploughing through my spam while I wait for a compile. Cheers; Leon From leon at brooks.fdns.net Tue Jul 20 11:18:32 2004 From: leon at brooks.fdns.net (Leon Brooks) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:18:32 +0800 Subject: [plug] Searching Email In-Reply-To: <1089872728.32090.26.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> References: <1089843290.32090.3.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> <1089872728.32090.26.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> Message-ID: <200407201118.32974.leon@brooks.fdns.net> On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:30, Onno Benschop wrote: > Thus, I do the search, browse to my designated mail folder within > Evolution, and there are my matched messages... Um, that's what KMail does. You can organise collections of search results just like any other mail folder. Cheers; Leon From leon at brooks.fdns.net Tue Jul 20 11:36:46 2004 From: leon at brooks.fdns.net (Leon Brooks) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:36:46 +0800 Subject: [plug] APACHE - the Mandrake answer In-Reply-To: <200407151540.36147.sjung@mail2me.com.au> References: <200407151540.36147.sjung@mail2me.com.au> Message-ID: <200407201136.46448.leon@brooks.fdns.net> On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 15:40, Aaron Thorn wrote: > I?ve worked with asp and want to see if it is easy to migrate > over to CGI. Try this as root: urpmi apache2-mod_php php-pgsql php-cli php-gd php-ming php-imap That will give you a nice collection of PHP tools. The on-line annotated manual lives here: http://www.php.net/manual/en/ They have a section somewhere on the site for users converting from ASP. You might also find this helpful, but I think you'll need to have your package manager configured to see the contribs as well as the main packages: urpmi asp2php If that comes up empty, try something like this, then go back and try for asp2php again: urpmi.addmedium contrib ftp://mirror.pacific.net.au/mandrake/RPMS2 \ with ../base/hdlist2.cz There's also a GUI for that called gtkasp2php. If you haven't yet configured for updates, do it now: urpmi.addmedium --update pacupd \ ftp://mirror.pacific.net.au/mandrake/updates/10.0/RPMS \ with ../base/hdlist.cz ...then... urpmi --auto-select This will take a *long* time the first time through on a dialup. Visit a friend with DSL and a few hundred MB of spare quota. Ever after: urpmi.update pacupd urpmi --auto-select Unless you are doing something fancy, you can use Apache as-is out of the box. I generally do this in/etc/httpd/2.0/conf/httpd2.conf: #Include conf/vhosts/Vhosts.conf Include conf/vhosts/DynamicVhosts.conf ...and then uncover in /etc/httpd/2.0/conf/vhosts/DynamicVhosts.conf: UseCanonicalName Off LogFormat "%V %h %l %u %t \"%r\" %s %b" vcommon CustomLog logs/access_log vcommon VirtualDocumentRoot /var/www/virtual/%-3.0.%-2.0.%-1/%-4 Allow from all AllowOverride AuthConfig Indexes Limit Options Options FollowSymLinks Indexes IndexOptions NameWidth=* FoldersFirst IgnoreCase VersionSort FancyIndexing ReadMeName README (FancyIndexing should be on the end of the IndexOptions line) then restart the service: service httpd restart Now just add DNS entries and make directories like this for your content, no further config tweaking needed: mkdir /var/www/virtual/mydomain.com.au/www cd /var/www/virtual/mydomain.com.au ln -s www _ chown -R nameofuser www cd ~nameofuser ln -s /var/www/virtual/mydomain.com.au/www web The effect of this is that anyone logged in as nameofuser (including through Samba) can drop files into web/ and they'll appear at http://www.mydomain.com.au/ and also http://mydomain.com.au/ OK, that compile's finished now (kdegraphics). Have a good day. (-: Cheers; Leon From leon at brooks.fdns.net Tue Jul 20 11:44:12 2004 From: leon at brooks.fdns.net (Leon Brooks) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:44:12 +0800 Subject: [plug] Mandrake mirrors In-Reply-To: <002401c46b36$d2624c80$0201a8c0@home> References: <002401c46b36$d2624c80$0201a8c0@home> Message-ID: <200407201144.12755.leon@brooks.fdns.net> On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 21:14, Joel Johnson wrote: > Just installed Mandrake 9.0 on an older laptop (Pentium 1). Mandrake > 10 didn't want to install so reverted to the older version. Now > trying to do an update but it seems that the Mandrake 9.0 mirror on > 3FL is no longer maintained. Or anywhere. Try ftp.proxad.net and look under "old" in the Mandrake updates directory. That'll bring you up to about March, when they EOL'ed it. If you point URPMI at a later Mandrake mirror, you can do this to upgrade the entire distro: urpmi urpmi urpmi --auto-select Remember to include an update medium to avoid downloading stuff twice (once the original, then later an updated version when you do an update). I *don't* recommend doing this via dialup. It involves downloading hundreds (thousands on a full system) of megabytes of RPMs, and it may drop your PPP connection while doing so, and be unable to remake it (unlikely but not impossible). I recommend going to 9.2 first, as that won't break as many things as updating direct to 10.0, then doing it again to 10.0 once you're sure it's all happy. Back up everything precious (data and config) before trying this, and there is no warranty, but it's worked for me a couple of times. Cheers; Leon [now compiling kdepim] From leon at brooks.fdns.net Tue Jul 20 11:52:20 2004 From: leon at brooks.fdns.net (Leon Brooks) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:52:20 +0800 Subject: [plug] Linux friendly accountants? [commercial reply] In-Reply-To: <1090075613.2170.3.camel@localhost> References: <1090038105.2181.33.camel@localhost> <200407171232.02767@death.2.spammers> <1090075613.2170.3.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <200407201152.20351.leon@brooks.fdns.net> On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 22:46, Chris Caston wrote: > Otherwise I'm stuck doing all the accounting myself like I am now (in > gnucash and OO.o calc) which is a big drain of my time and my > creativity in other areas. I just hand all of my paperwork to Alex Polglaze<*>, also on this list, and at year's end to Mark Egan, his preferred accountant. No computers involved and they're good at sorting out financial disasters too. They use Linux for a lot of gateway and server stuff and as soon as I can get proper Lotus Word Pro and 1-2-3 support into OpenOffice, they'll switch entirely to Linux (that's the _only_ thing stopping them: http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=11215 - vote for that if you want to help). http://www.book-keepingnetwork.com.au/ Cheers; Leon [still compiling kdepim on a dual-3GHz P4] <*> Full disclosure: I usually hand it to Jodie, which leaves Alex free for important stuff like 4WDing along Cable Beach. From leon at brooks.fdns.net Tue Jul 20 11:55:00 2004 From: leon at brooks.fdns.net (Leon Brooks) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:55:00 +0800 Subject: [plug] Congrats on the installfest In-Reply-To: <20040718115334.GH2573@blackham.com.au> References: <1090150902.1826.251.camel@virgo.srgw.linuxit.com.au.201.168.192.in-addr.arpa> <20040718115334.GH2573@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: <200407201155.00935.leon@brooks.fdns.net> On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 19:53, Bernard Blackham wrote: > On Sun, Jul 18, 2004 at 07:41:42PM +0800, Scott Middleton wrote: >> Whens the next one? > On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 09:29:48AM +0000, Senectus - wrote: >> I had a chat with the boss.. and he's quiet happy with the idea of >> using some of our ample room for an installfest. > 68 days from when the next bright spark speaks up? ;) > (I'm actually not too terrified to schedule one for early December > or thereabouts? Not sure if the rest of the committee are with me > though ;) Linux For Christmas, 28 Nov? Gives time to iron bugs out. Cheers; Leon From leon at brooks.fdns.net Tue Jul 20 11:56:26 2004 From: leon at brooks.fdns.net (Leon Brooks) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:56:26 +0800 Subject: [plug] Linux friendly accountants? In-Reply-To: <40FA857B.4010003@book-keepingnetwork.com.au> References: <1090038105.2181.33.camel@localhost> <1090075613.2170.3.camel@localhost> <40FA857B.4010003@book-keepingnetwork.com.au> Message-ID: <200407201156.26355.leon@brooks.fdns.net> On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:13, Alex Polglaze wrote: > This is not and advert, really :-), just for general information. Well, mine was, but it wasn't for me. (-: Cheers; Leon [kdepim finally done, now compiling a gazillion i18ns] From senectus at gmail.com Tue Jul 20 13:17:42 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 13:17:42 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OTish] VPN and China Firewall? Message-ID: I have a client that is trying to VPN from inside of china and we're getting strange results.. Stuff like the VPN software is Authenticating, and "some" packets will get back here but some wont... Is it possible that the "Great Firewall of China" is causing us some heartache? Also is it possible for services out side of the vpn tunnel to block ICMP etc? It is hard to test this stuff me being here and the client being in China... :-/ -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Tue Jul 20 13:23:37 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 13:23:37 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OTish] VPN and China Firewall? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040720052337.GA21316@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message on Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 01:17:42PM +0800, Senectus . wrote: > "some" packets will get back here but some wont... Are you differentiating this from general ONOPS issues (e.g. network congestion, attack, failure of an international network link, weather-related disturbances, etc.)? From senectus at gmail.com Tue Jul 20 13:26:59 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 13:26:59 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OTish] VPN and China Firewall? In-Reply-To: <20040720052337.GA21316@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <20040720052337.GA21316@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: Well it doesn't seem to have any issue at all getting authentication... but there is no ping reply at all. Next time I talk to him I'll ask him to telnet on 25 to the mail server back here.. by both the public address and the private one.. see what result that gets. > Are you differentiating this from general ONOPS issues (e.g. > network congestion, attack, failure of an international network > link, weather-related disturbances, etc.)? -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From alan.graham at infonetsystems.com.au Tue Jul 20 15:40:40 2004 From: alan.graham at infonetsystems.com.au (Alan Graham) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 15:40:40 +0800 Subject: [plug] Netgear 802.11g PCMCIA card works under Linux Message-ID: <1090309240.3037.19.camel@bart.graham.fdns.net> Just thought I'd let people know... I asked if anyone had an 802.11g card working a couple of weeks ago, so that I could buy a "known to work" card. After browsing the web, googling everywhere, etc, I finally bought a Netgear access point and 802.11g card package from Harris Technology (approx $170). I installed it this morning, and it all works fine. Setting up the pcmcia card under Linux was harder than setting up the networking on my wife's mac powerbook, but not by too much. I had to download the firmware and place it in /usr/lib/hotplug/firmware, then use iwconfig to set the WEP key, set up the default route, and I was away! The laptop's an old Gateway PIII 550, running Mandrake 10.0 official. Kernel 2.6.3-7mdk. The card's a Netgear WG511. One caveat; this card is running the prism chipset (or at least, it's using the prism54 driver) Some people have reported that Netgear have changed chipsets on the WG511 a couple of times, so you can't guarantee that all WG511 cards will work. One other problem; the prism54 driver doesn't support WPA yet. WEP works fine tho', and WPA is coming Real Soon Now(tm) :-) BTW, the firmware is for the Intersil ISL3890. Googleing (sp?) for that should get a download site, or email me and I can email the one I downloaded. It's only about 90k. Regards Alan -- Alan Graham -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From myk at westnet.com.au Tue Jul 20 16:07:46 2004 From: myk at westnet.com.au (Michael Holland) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 16:07:46 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] iso9660 and 2GB filesize limit Message-ID: I used growisofs to write a 3,554,029,869 byte file to DVD+RW . It reads fine under XP, but mounting on Linux (2.6.3) shows only a 14,037,293 byte file, though df shows correctly 3.4G/100% . With google, I read that iso9660 has a 2GB filesize limit. But damnit, both mkisofs and win-XP seem to do better. isoinfo also shows the iso as contaqining the 3.5BG file. Can I make the linux kernel do it? -- Reading this .sig? So are your customers. From billk at iinet.net.au Tue Jul 20 16:29:23 2004 From: billk at iinet.net.au (William Kenworthy) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 16:29:23 +0800 Subject: [plug] iso9660 and 2GB filesize limit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1090312163.13924.7.camel@rattus.Localdomain> I would like to know this myself. I had a dvd burnt (on a mac) of some backups, but linux refused to read it properly. Eventually gave up in disgust without finding a way around it. At least macs and windose can read them ... BillK On Tue, 2004-07-20 at 16:07, Michael Holland wrote: > I used growisofs to write a 3,554,029,869 byte file to DVD+RW . > It reads fine under XP, but mounting on Linux (2.6.3) shows only > a 14,037,293 byte file, though df shows correctly 3.4G/100% . > > With google, I read that iso9660 has a 2GB filesize limit. > But damnit, both mkisofs and win-XP seem to do better. > isoinfo also shows the iso as contaqining the 3.5BG file. > Can I make the linux kernel do it? > > -- > Reading this .sig? So are your customers. > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From jtwarwick at iinet.net.au Tue Jul 20 17:01:35 2004 From: jtwarwick at iinet.net.au (Jay Warwick) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 17:01:35 +0800 Subject: [plug] newbie - perl problem Message-ID: <1090314095.7865.23.camel@holin01.jtajt.local> trying to setup 'razor' spam filter, but after 'make' I get following error - make: *** No rule to make target `/usr/lib/perl5/5.8.3/i386-linux-thread-multi/CORE/config.h', needed by `Makefile'. Stop. Am using Mandrake 10 while I learn more about Linux and I have followed the 'CORE' directory but there is no 'config.h' file there. It appears to me that Perl is setup properly as it shows the version when doing 'perl -v'. What do I need to change to setup razor now? (I don't know if this is the right thing to do but have included the razor 'Makefile' to help). thanks JW -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Makefile Type: text/x-makefile Size: 25678 bytes Desc: not available URL: From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Tue Jul 20 17:52:41 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 17:52:41 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OTish] VPN and China Firewall? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40FCEB69.9070701@postnewspapers.com.au> Senectus . wrote: > I have a client that is trying to VPN from inside of china and we're > getting strange results.. > Stuff like the VPN software is Authenticating, and "some" packets will > get back here but some wont... > Is it possible that the "Great Firewall of China" is causing us some heartache? Given that you haven't even mentioned what sort of VPN you're trying to set up, it's rather hard to say :-( Frankly, I doubt it a lot. I was able to use SSH tunnels with no problems, at least, and why block one technology that can be used for unfiltered 'net access (ssh tunnel to an HTTP proxy) but not another? > Also is it possible for services out side of the vpn tunnel to block ICMP etc? Unless the VPN is frighteningly not-so-P, it should not be possible. > It is hard to test this stuff me being here and the client being in China... :-/ Been there, done that. The power going off reguarly didn't help with the guy I was trying to work with. Nor did the fact that I had to catch him early in his day, before he'd caught up with too much beer... -- Craig Ringer From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Tue Jul 20 17:55:03 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 17:55:03 +0800 Subject: [plug] newbie - perl problem In-Reply-To: <1090314095.7865.23.camel@holin01.jtajt.local> References: <1090314095.7865.23.camel@holin01.jtajt.local> Message-ID: <40FCEBF7.7060308@postnewspapers.com.au> Jay Warwick wrote: > trying to setup 'razor' spam filter, but after 'make' I get following > error - > > make: *** No rule to make target > `/usr/lib/perl5/5.8.3/i386-linux-thread-multi/CORE/config.h', needed by > `Makefile'. Stop. > > Am using Mandrake 10 while I learn more about Linux and I have followed > the 'CORE' directory but there is no 'config.h' file there. Do you have the perl devel packages installed? You'll need them to install that software, given that it's looking for config.h . -- Craig Ringer From jtwarwick at iinet.net.au Tue Jul 20 18:27:00 2004 From: jtwarwick at iinet.net.au (Jay Warwick) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:27:00 +0800 Subject: [plug] newbie - perl problem In-Reply-To: <40FCEBF7.7060308@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <1090314095.7865.23.camel@holin01.jtajt.local> <40FCEBF7.7060308@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <1090319219.7865.28.camel@holin01.jtajt.local> Great thanks Craig. Was missing some other packages as well after - your suggestion made me look closer at the bash output. thanks JW -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Craig Ringer Subject: Re: [plug] newbie - perl problem Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 17:55:03 +0800 Size: 1778 URL: From senectus at gmail.com Tue Jul 20 18:36:14 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:36:14 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OTish] VPN and China Firewall? In-Reply-To: <40FCEB69.9070701@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <40FCEB69.9070701@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: Ok cool, thanks for the feed back... will try to solve the issue other ways.. thanks again. > Given that you haven't even mentioned what sort of VPN you're trying to > set up, it's rather hard to say :-( > Frankly, I doubt it a lot. I was able to use SSH tunnels with no > problems, at least, and why block one technology that can be used for > unfiltered 'net access (ssh tunnel to an HTTP proxy) but not another? > > > Also is it possible for services out side of the vpn tunnel to block ICMP etc? > > Unless the VPN is frighteningly not-so-P, it should not be possible. > > > It is hard to test this stuff me being here and the client being in China... :-/ > > Been there, done that. The power going off reguarly didn't help with the > guy I was trying to work with. Nor did the fact that I had to catch him > early in his day, before he'd caught up with too much beer... > > -- > Craig Ringer > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Tue Jul 20 18:42:09 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:42:09 +0800 Subject: [plug] iso9660 and 2GB filesize limit In-Reply-To: <1090312163.13924.7.camel@rattus.Localdomain> References: <1090312163.13924.7.camel@rattus.Localdomain> Message-ID: <20040720104209.GA10425@cp.yi.org> William Kenworthy wrote: > I would like to know this myself. I had a dvd burnt (on a mac) of some > backups, but linux refused to read it properly. Eventually gave up in > disgust without finding a way around it. Looking at fs/isofs/inode.c, there is this comment: /* * The ISO-9660 filesystem only stores 32 bits for file size. * mkisofs handles files up to 2GB-2 = 2147483646 = 0x7FFFFFFE bytes * in size. This is according to the large file summit paper from 1996. * WARNING: ISO-9660 filesystems > 1 GB and even > 2 GB are fully * legal. Do not prevent to use DVD's schilling at fokus.gmd.de */ [...] printk(KERN_WARNING "Warning: defective CD-ROM. " "Enabling \"cruft\" mount option.\n"); [...] /* * Some dipshit decided to store some other bit of information * in the high byte of the file length. Catch this and holler. * WARNING: this will make it impossible for a file to be > 16MB * on the CDROM. */ If you see that "defective CD-ROM" message in syslog, then I'd guess that the attached patch (written by me, utterly untested, use at your own risk) may fix it. Googling reveals some postings on the cdrecord list from a year ago which suggest that ISO Level 3 (required for large files) isn't properly supported under Linux, though, so it may just make things worse. There is however a function that claims to implement it, isofs_read_level3_size, also in isofs/inode.c. Cameron. diff -ru kernel-source-2.6.7.orig/fs/isofs/inode.c kernel-source-2.6.7/fs/isofs/inode.c --- kernel-source-2.6.7.orig/fs/isofs/inode.c 2004-07-08 14:08:13.000000000 +0800 +++ kernel-source-2.6.7/fs/isofs/inode.c 2004-07-20 18:39:56.000000000 +0800 @@ -1276,23 +1276,10 @@ */ if ((inode->i_size < 0 || inode->i_size > 0x7FFFFFFE) && sbi->s_cruft == 'n') { - printk(KERN_WARNING "Warning: defective CD-ROM. " - "Enabling \"cruft\" mount option.\n"); + printk(KERN_WARNING "Warning: using Cameron's dodgy hack to disable checks on file size"); sbi->s_cruft = 'y'; } - /* - * Some dipshit decided to store some other bit of information - * in the high byte of the file length. Catch this and holler. - * WARNING: this will make it impossible for a file to be > 16MB - * on the CDROM. - */ - - if (sbi->s_cruft == 'y' && - inode->i_size & 0xff000000) { - inode->i_size &= 0x00ffffff; - } - if (de->interleave[0]) { printk("Interleaved files not (yet) supported.\n"); inode->i_size = 0; From jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au Tue Jul 20 19:54:13 2004 From: jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au (Jon Miller) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:54:13 +0800 Subject: [plug] 2nd NIC not loading Message-ID: Like to know where and how do I get the 2nd NIC in a Debian server to load the module at bootup. It's a e100.o driver for the Intel Ethernet Card and it does not load automatically. I have to issue a insmod command to load the module and then the commands to load eth1 and the default gateway. Also I want to make 192.168.100.1 the default gateway for the server as this point to the router interface. I have the configuration for the /etc/network/interface # /etc/network/interfaces -- configuration file for ifup(8), ifdown(8) # The loopback interface auto lo iface lo inet loopback # The first network card - this entry was created during the Debian installation auto eth0 iface eth0 inet static address 192.168.1.99 netmask 255.255.255.0 auto eth1 iface eth1 inet static address 192.168.100.2 netmask 255.255.255.0 gateway 192.168.100.1 Regards, Jon L. Miller, MCNE, CNS, ASE Director/Sr Systems Consultant MMT Networks Pty Ltd http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: TEXT.htm URL: From r.steicke at bom.gov.au Tue Jul 20 19:17:20 2004 From: r.steicke at bom.gov.au (Russell Steicke) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:17:20 +0800 Subject: [plug] 2nd NIC not loading In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040720111720.GH18373@postoffice.wa.bom.gov.au> On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 07:54:13PM +0800, Jon Miller wrote: > Like to know where and how do I get the 2nd NIC in a Debian server to > load the module at bootup. It's a e100.o driver for the Intel > Ethernet Card and it does not load automatically. I have to issue a > insmod command to load the module and then the commands to load eth1 > and the default gateway. Put a line "e100" in /etc/modules. Make sure it's after the line for the first network interface so that the e100 becomes eth1. > Also I want to make 192.168.100.1 the default gateway for the server > as this point to the router interface. The gateway line in /etc/network/interfaces as you have it below should do that. If, after boot, you're currently doing modprobe e100 ifup eth1 your default gateway should be set automatically. If you're issuing ifconfig commands instead of ifup, then you'll have to set the gateway yourself (like you've said you're doing now). But if you load the module automatically (by referencing it in /etc/modules), then eth1 will exist when the network gets configured, and all will be good. > I have the configuration for the /etc/network/interface > > # /etc/network/interfaces -- configuration file for ifup(8), ifdown(8) > # The loopback interface > auto lo > iface lo inet loopback > > # The first network card - this entry was created during the Debian installation > auto eth0 > iface eth0 inet static > address 192.168.1.99 > netmask 255.255.255.0 > > auto eth1 > iface eth1 inet static > address 192.168.100.2 > netmask 255.255.255.0 > gateway 192.168.100.1 -- Russell Steicke -- Fortune says: No matter how much you do you never do enough. From michael at aussie.oddsocks.net Tue Jul 20 20:51:34 2004 From: michael at aussie.oddsocks.net (Michael Hunt) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 20:51:34 +0800 Subject: [plug] Changing of sub details. Message-ID: <1090327895.17827.19.camel@gilgal> Hi ya all, Due to increasing costs on my Net at ddress service (once free, reliable web based e-mail) I will no longer be subscribed to this list as michael.j.hunt at usa.net. Instead I will be subscribed with michael at aussie.oddsocks.net. It is a bit of a sad moment for me, having had this address for over 6 years there are a multitude of memories attached to it. It has been with me all over the world on my travels, given out to numerous friends and even on occasions come up in a goggle search of someone in another far of part of the world struggling with some Linux issue that I have posted about on PLUG. In some ways I feel apart of me has just died ..... To michael.j.hunt at usa.net I say :- "So long. And thanks for all the fish" Michael Hunt An aussie oddsock. From senectus at gmail.com Tue Jul 20 23:25:49 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 23:25:49 +0800 Subject: [plug] Changing of sub details. In-Reply-To: <1090327895.17827.19.camel@gilgal> References: <1090327895.17827.19.camel@gilgal> Message-ID: I'd be happy to hand over one of these fantastic Gmail accounts next time I get an invite if you like.... On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 20:51:34 +0800, Michael Hunt wrote: > Hi ya all, > > Due to increasing costs on my Net at ddress service (once free, reliable > web based e-mail) I will no longer be subscribed to this list as > michael.j.hunt at usa.net. Instead I will be subscribed with > michael at aussie.oddsocks.net. > > It is a bit of a sad moment for me, having had this address for over 6 > years there are a multitude of memories attached to it. It has been with > me all over the world on my travels, given out to numerous friends and > even on occasions come up in a goggle search of someone in another far > of part of the world struggling with some Linux issue that I have posted > about on PLUG. > > In some ways I feel apart of me has just died ..... > > To michael.j.hunt at usa.net I say :- > > "So long. And thanks for all the fish" > > Michael Hunt > > An aussie oddsock. > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From onno at itmaze.com.au Wed Jul 21 09:13:24 2004 From: onno at itmaze.com.au (Onno Benschop) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:13:24 +1000 Subject: [plug] Time Lapse Movie Message-ID: <1090372404.6274.7.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> Hey, after the spate of postings about changing the desktop under gnome, I decided that using this as my desktop would be cool: (note, this file will be deleted ~ 36 hours from now :-) http://www.bom.gov.au/gms/IDE00005.200407210030.gif And wrote a script that puts all the files into a weather directory. Using the time honoured ImageMagick software I've been playing with making a time-lapse movie of this. The most obvious conversion is: convert *gif weather.mpg This works fine, but it starts dying at frame 100 or so with all manner of buffer delay blah errors and the resulting movie is very blocky for those frames. The next conversion I tried is: convert *gif weather.m2v This works great and plays fine in xine - and sometimes even in mplayer. However, it fills up RAM with all the images, and causes a phenomenal system load *before* it actually starts doing anything with the encoder. The system is completely unusable during the conversion. I've spent some time with google looking for ways to append a single frame to a movie with no success. So, how can I make a movie of all these frames and how do I do it in such a way that I can append the latest frame to the movie every hour? PS. I know that a package motion appends frames, but I've no idea how it does it and I don't really have the inclination to actually write any application to do this, seeing as I've got about 40 others of a higher priority :-) Any suggestions? Onno Benschop Connected via Optus B3 at S27?52'30" - E151?16'25" (Millmerran, QLD) -- ()/)/)() ..ASCII for Onno.. |>>? ..EBCDIC for Onno.. --- -. -. --- ..Morse for Onno.. Proudly supported by Skipper Trucks, Highway1, Concept AV, Sony Central, Dalcon ITmaze - ABN: 56 178 057 063 - ph: 04 1219 8888 - onno at itmaze dot com dot au From michael at aussie.oddsocks.net Wed Jul 21 09:23:36 2004 From: michael at aussie.oddsocks.net (Michael Hunt) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 09:23:36 +0800 Subject: [plug] Changing of sub details. In-Reply-To: References: <1090327895.17827.19.camel@gilgal> Message-ID: <1090373016.18518.18.camel@gilgal> On Tue, 2004-07-20 at 23:25 +0800, Senectus . wrote: > I'd be happy to hand over one of these fantastic Gmail accounts next > time I get an invite if you like.... That would be great. Gmail actually got me thinking about what I was paying for my usa.net account. Basically I was getting the following for $40US/yr :- * 10Mb storage * POP Access * Spam and Virus Filtering * Use of an email address that I had for quite some time. Stack this up to Gmail and you are probably wondering why I would even consider keeping it, let alone pay for it !!! Pretty much it was that last point only. Lets just say I was baited hook, line and sinker !!! Make it free to begin with, then starting charging (nothing unreasonable) and then soon you are so caught in their snares you can't ever leave. Sorry I'm not really bitter, and the loss is not that great. I'm probably more sad that I have to go back to classes tomorrow after 4 weeks holiday than anything else :-). On the possibility of a Gmail account, I tried to get one before my sub with usa.net ran out, (it sounded perfect for what I want) unfortunately try as I may I couldn't get one so I resorted to a subdomain address of my main domain oddsocks.net. It will do in the mean time. I would still be interested in a Gmail account if a spare invite comes your way. Michael Hunt From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Wed Jul 21 09:27:51 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 09:27:51 +0800 Subject: [plug] [scarf3b@yahoo.com.au: [plug-ctte] Modem problems] Message-ID: <20040721012751.GA12520@patrick.wattle.id.au> This message was sent to committee at plug. Terry probably isn't subscribed to the list, please CC him on any replies (and mention the mailing list!). ----- Forwarded message from Terry Hunt ----- Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 01:51:08 +1000 (EST) To: committee at plug.org.au Cc: From: Terry Hunt Subject: [plug-ctte] Modem problems Hi there, Just seeing if there's any-one at P.L.U.G. that can point me in the right direction in regards to actually being able to get a modem to work on my new Mandrake system. I was at the installfest at the week-end and got Mandrake put on my computer but no-one explained how difficult it would be to be able to get this thing to work on-line. I'm sorry I have no expertise with the inner machinations of this magical device I'm sitting in front of, I'm used to Windows doing all the work, even if I have to pay Microsoft every time I need to actually do something with the thing. I thought I'd try Linux to see if the claims of new user-friendlyness were true. I've talked to Linux IT about a modem to work on Linux and only get blank stares as if I've asked a rude question. A computer shop sold me a new modem saying that they thought it may work ( No-one was prepared to put thier name on the line). I have looked up a few sites on the net ( thank god for Explorer ) and it seems to me that user-friendly and modem are not words that go together in the Linux world. The crux of the matter is: Can I go out and buy a modem that I can plug into this computer to make my shiny new Linux system work on the Net. If so please,please, please point me in that direction. Thanks very much for your time and any help you may be able to supply. Terry Hunt --------------------------------- Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. _______________________________________________ committee mailing list committee at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/committee ----- End forwarded message ----- From onno at itmaze.com.au Wed Jul 21 10:14:12 2004 From: onno at itmaze.com.au (Onno Benschop) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:14:12 +1000 Subject: [plug] [scarf3b@yahoo.com.au: [plug-ctte] Modem problems] In-Reply-To: <20040721012751.GA12520@patrick.wattle.id.au> References: <20040721012751.GA12520@patrick.wattle.id.au> Message-ID: <1090376052.6274.25.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> On Wed, 2004-07-21 at 11:27, Cameron Patrick wrote: > This message was sent to committee at plug. Terry probably isn't > subscribed to the list, please CC him on any replies (and mention the > mailing list!). Terry, I suggest that you subscribe to the mailing list for all manner of on-line instant assistance :-) PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > ----- Forwarded message from Terry Hunt ----- > > Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 01:51:08 +1000 (EST) > To: committee at plug.org.au > Cc: > From: Terry Hunt > Subject: [plug-ctte] Modem problems > > Hi there, > > Just seeing if there's any-one at P.L.U.G. that can point me in the > right direction in regards to actually being able to get a modem to > work on my new Mandrake system. I was at the installfest at the > week-end and got Mandrake put on my computer but no-one explained how > difficult it would be to be able to get this thing to work > on-line. Well, that is a pretty loaded way of approaching the problem. I understand your frustration and on occasion share it also. The challenge you're facing is not a new one and you should not feel like you are on your own either. PLUG is a great place to get help in all manner of issues that can and will crop up. No-one ever said that Linux is the answer to everyone's problems, but let me start with giving you some tips... Seeing as I wasn't at the Install Fest, nor do I run Mandrake, nor do I use a modem, I can only supply you with general comment. There is a large variety of modems available and you don't supply me with a hint to what you are needing to achieve. Also, I presume you're connected in some way, otherwise I'd not be reading your email. 1. Is the computer you are writing this email on, the same one that you had Mandrake installed on and want to use to connect to the net? If yes, then what modem is it? 2. Are you using your modem with a dial-up account or ADSL/Cable/ISDN? 3. If you don't have a modem yet, is the modem you are looking at Internal or External? 4. If you don't have a modem yet, did you know there are at least five ways to connect a modem, some work better or are simpler to install than others - see below. Some modem types and their uses: Modems can be connected to your computer in several ways, either as an on monther board modem, additional internal card, as a USB device, as a serial device or as an Ethernet device. I've avoided internal modems like the plague for many years and I don't intend to stop now, and I don't regularly use on-board ones either. Others on this list may be able to assist with those. Serial and Ethernet modems are generally simplest to setup. USB modems can work out of the box, or they can also require all manner of configuration. Search google with the model of the modem you want to use before you purchase. Now if all that wasn't complicated enough, you also need to make your modem talk to the other end. Under Windows, this is likely done with the Dial-Up settings, but under Linux, this is done most likely with a PPP client of some sort. Finally, if you've gotten to here in the message, please understand that we here at PLUG are happy to assist with questions, and remember that many millions of people use Linux every day. Things work differently under Linux, just like a diesel engine doesn't work the same as a petrol one, both get you to your destination. Hope this helps. PS. Feel free to mail the mailing list at plug at plug.linux.org.au Onno Benschop Connected via Optus B3 at S27?52'30" - E151?16'25" (Millmerran, QLD) -- ()/)/)() ..ASCII for Onno.. |>>? ..EBCDIC for Onno.. --- -. -. --- ..Morse for Onno.. Proudly supported by Skipper Trucks, Highway1, Concept AV, Sony Central, Dalcon ITmaze - ABN: 56 178 057 063 - ph: 04 1219 8888 - onno at itmaze dot com dot au From senectus at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 10:28:00 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 10:28:00 +0800 Subject: [plug] Anyone else been watching SCO's stock? Message-ID: I've noticed that their stock has dropped a lot of recent.. and stayed down.. (US$4.53 http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=SCOX&t=1y&l=on&z=m&q=l&c= ) for a few days or so, that that alone is unusual.. especially since this ( http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/07/20/2024215&tid=88&tid=106 ) sort of announcement normally drives their stock up for a bit... Is there any general market stuff that I'm not aware of driving this, or its because of their AZ and DC cases both being placed on hold? -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au Wed Jul 21 11:20:19 2004 From: jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au (Jon Miller) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:20:19 +0800 Subject: [plug] 2nd NIC not loading Message-ID: Looking in /etc/modules there isn't a listing for the 1st nic so if I put this in will this file load before the the 1st nic is loaded? Thanks Jon L. Miller, MCNE, CNS, ASE Director/Sr Systems Consultant MMT Networks Pty Ltd http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby >>> r.steicke at bom.gov.au 7:17:20 pm 20/07/2004 >>> On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 07:54:13PM +0800, Jon Miller wrote: > Like to know where and how do I get the 2nd NIC in a Debian server to > load the module at bootup. It's a e100.o driver for the Intel > Ethernet Card and it does not load automatically. I have to issue a > insmod command to load the module and then the commands to load eth1 > and the default gateway. Put a line "e100" in /etc/modules. Make sure it's after the line for the first network interface so that the e100 becomes eth1. > Also I want to make 192.168.100.1 the default gateway for the server > as this point to the router interface. The gateway line in /etc/network/interfaces as you have it below should do that. If, after boot, you're currently doing modprobe e100 ifup eth1 your default gateway should be set automatically. If you're issuing ifconfig commands instead of ifup, then you'll have to set the gateway yourself (like you've said you're doing now). But if you load the module automatically (by referencing it in /etc/modules), then eth1 will exist when the network gets configured, and all will be good. > I have the configuration for the /etc/network/interface > > # /etc/network/interfaces -- configuration file for ifup(8), ifdown(8) > # The loopback interface > auto lo > iface lo inet loopback > > # The first network card - this entry was created during the Debian installation > auto eth0 > iface eth0 inet static > address 192.168.1.99 > netmask 255.255.255.0 > > auto eth1 > iface eth1 inet static > address 192.168.100.2 > netmask 255.255.255.0 > gateway 192.168.100.1 -- Russell Steicke -- Fortune says: No matter how much you do you never do enough. _______________________________________________ PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From senectus at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 10:35:40 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 10:35:40 +0800 Subject: [plug] Next installfest - "going Corp" Message-ID: My boss has asked when we plan on having the next one, but what he really wants is to get us, Novell, IBM and HP (etc) to put on a "Corporate" focused gig. Now I'm not sure how we'd approach such a thing.. but I'm all for the idea. I believe that Novell and IBM in particular would damn near throw the party themselves... as they're being quiet active in pushing Novell/SUSE/IBM servers in the local Perth Business market at the moment. I'm sure that Linux I.T. would like to ride this wave as well, I'm not aware of other "Linux shops" in Perth.. Except for one guy I met (and forgot his name) at the Novell sales pitch a few weeks ago. What's the feel here? -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Wed Jul 21 10:45:20 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 10:45:20 +0800 Subject: [plug] Time Lapse Movie In-Reply-To: <1090372404.6274.7.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> References: <1090372404.6274.7.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> Message-ID: <40FDD8C0.5040708@postnewspapers.com.au> Onno Benschop wrote: > However, it fills up RAM with all the images, and causes a phenomenal > system load *before* it actually starts doing anything with the encoder. > The system is completely unusable during the conversion. That's just 'the ImageMagick way' :-( You should see what it does to my server when I try to make a thumbnail directory of a gigabyte of images, mostly JPEG and EPS files. *shudder*. > So, how can I make a movie of all these frames and how do I do it in > such a way that I can append the latest frame to the movie every hour? [snip] > Any suggestions? Most movie formats (such as MPEG) aren't designed to do what you want, because data from several frames is mixed together. MJPEG _is_ designed for frame-by-frame manipulation though, and would seem a good choice if you can find the software to manipulate it. Mencoder will create MJPEG, and knows how to create a movie from a series of frames, but I don't know if it can add a single frame to an existing file. Another avenue to look at might be MNG. I don't know how well supported it is ATM, unfortuately. -- Craig Ringer From senectus at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 10:48:52 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 10:48:52 +0800 Subject: [plug] Time Lapse Movie In-Reply-To: <40FDD8C0.5040708@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <1090372404.6274.7.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> <40FDD8C0.5040708@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: >Most movie formats (such as MPEG) aren't designed to do what you want, >because data from several frames is mixed together. I remember that there is a bom.gov.au site that has a JAVA applet with that map.. Its 4 separate images played next to each other (ie no movie format). Might that be a better solution? I'm not in a position to find it right now, but I will as soon as I get a chance. -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From myk at westnet.com.au Wed Jul 21 10:50:03 2004 From: myk at westnet.com.au (Michael Holland) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 10:50:03 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] iso9660 and 2GB filesize limit In-Reply-To: <20040720104209.GA10425@cp.yi.org> References: <1090312163.13924.7.camel@rattus.Localdomain> <20040720104209.GA10425@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Jul 2004, Cameron Patrick wrote: > printk(KERN_WARNING "Warning: defective CD-ROM. " > "Enabling \"cruft\" mount option.\n"); Yes, I'm seeing that. > If you see that "defective CD-ROM" message in syslog, then I'd guess > that the attached patch (written by me, utterly untested, use at your Uh ... kernel code is interesting to look at. And often disappointing (havn't these people heard of comments!??). But I get a bit nervous at the words "untested kernel patch". Phrases like "memory leak", "buffer overflow", "subltle filesystem corruption", deadlock, and "race condition" come to mind. Yes, I'm afraid I'm kernel-mode-phobic. Eh, WTF. But I'll do a backup first. One work-around is to burn the DVD with the '-udf' option. That generates lots of 'UDF-fs DEBUG fs/udf/super.c:' messages in the syslog on mounting, and shows a large UID (4294967295), but the large files read OK. Are there any user-mode tools to extract files from an ISOFS images? I can't find one. > - printk(KERN_WARNING "Warning: defective CD-ROM. " > - "Enabling \"cruft\" mount option.\n"); > + printk(KERN_WARNING "Warning: using Cameron's dodgy hack to disable checks on file size"); > sbi->s_cruft = 'y'; > - /* > - * Some dipshit decided to store some other bit of information > - * in the high byte of the file length. Catch this and holler. > - * WARNING: this will make it impossible for a file to be > 16MB > - * on the CDROM. > - */ > - > - if (sbi->s_cruft == 'y' && > - inode->i_size & 0xff000000) { > - inode->i_size &= 0x00ffffff; > - } > - Wow! So any one file over 2GB will cripple ALL files over 16MB !!! And this is a dumb hack that's been sitting there since 1998? I'd rather remove the "enable cruft on seeing a large file", than disable cruft completely. Is that OK? Perhaps the "right way" would be to add another isofs-specific mount option? That patch leaves in lots of code that now serves no purpose. I'm doing a 'make modules' now, and its slow. (The kernel has got huge!) Whats the easy way to make and install a single module? thanks, Mike. -- Reading this .sig? So are your customers. From jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au Wed Jul 21 11:38:55 2004 From: jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au (Jon Miller) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:38:55 +0800 Subject: [plug] Next installfest - "going Corp" Message-ID: I'm sure you can get someone from Novell and IBM, I attended their workshop last week and it was packed. Jon Jon L. Miller, MCNE, CNS, ASE Director/Sr Systems Consultant MMT Networks Pty Ltd http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby >>> senectus at gmail.com 10:35:40 am 21/07/2004 >>> My boss has asked when we plan on having the next one, but what he really wants is to get us, Novell, IBM and HP (etc) to put on a "Corporate" focused gig. Now I'm not sure how we'd approach such a thing.. but I'm all for the idea. I believe that Novell and IBM in particular would damn near throw the party themselves... as they're being quiet active in pushing Novell/SUSE/IBM servers in the local Perth Business market at the moment. I'm sure that Linux I.T. would like to ride this wave as well, I'm not aware of other "Linux shops" in Perth.. Except for one guy I met (and forgot his name) at the Novell sales pitch a few weeks ago. What's the feel here? -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net _______________________________________________ PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at mjg.id.au Wed Jul 21 10:58:27 2004 From: mark at mjg.id.au (Mark J Gaynor) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 10:58:27 +0800 Subject: [plug] Installfest aftermath In-Reply-To: <20040718140908.GC2103@cp.yi.org> References: <20040718114809.GA15034@blackham.com.au> <20040718121715.GJ2573@blackham.com.au> <1090154357.1826.255.camel@virgo.srgw.linuxit.com.au.201.168.192.in-addr.arpa> <20040718140908.GC2103@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <200407211058270960.1DD27C3A@mail.webace.com.au> I support you here Cameron, Bernard did a lot to hold things together and keep us going. Then it is Bernard we are talking about. We done Bernard! Mark -- *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 18/07/2004 at 10:09 PM Cameron Patrick wrote: >Scott Middleton wrote: >> Who supplied the Gb switch. That saved many an hour! > >Marcus (actually Commander) supplied that. > >I think we should also thank Bernard, for getting the whole thing >going once Marcus gave us a nudge with a venue. And also for doing >hideous things with LaTeX to generate the LCA2003 name tags, giving me >the scripts to generate them so that I could wrestle them into >submission to create name tags for the installfest helpers. > >Cameron. > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au From ryan at westnet.net.au Wed Jul 21 10:56:42 2004 From: ryan at westnet.net.au (Ryan Smith) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 10:56:42 +0800 Subject: [plug] self shutdown Message-ID: <20040721025642.GA3714@tesla> hello About 10 minutes ago my gateway magically shut itself, which is kinda scary, cause im the only one using it and I'm pretty sure that it wasnt me. So I was wondering how do I find out how it was shutdown. I did find this line in auth.log Jul 20 10:57:22 faraday su[490]: + ??? root-nobody Just to be on the safe side. is it possible to only allow certain users to su? cheers Ryan From senectus at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 11:00:05 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:00:05 +0800 Subject: [plug] Next installfest - "going Corp" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:38:55 +0800, Jon Miller wrote: > I'm sure you can get someone from Novell and IBM, I attended their workshop last week and it was packed. > Yeah thats what I was thinking. How did you find the course? *On a personal level - You bastard :-) I was booked to go on that, and cause no one cancelled I couldn't go :-( Incidentally they're trying to get the numbers to fit another session in August.. so if anyone else is interested in what i think is a damned cheap course for installing SUSE on IBM Xseries servers.. I could fwd the details.. ( I think they need another 10 people.) -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From tenzero at iinet.net.au Wed Jul 21 11:02:27 2004 From: tenzero at iinet.net.au (Dion) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:02:27 +0800 Subject: [plug] self shutdown In-Reply-To: <20040721025642.GA3714@tesla> References: <20040721025642.GA3714@tesla> Message-ID: <40FDDCC3.3050204@iinet.net.au> Ryan Smith wrote: >hello > >About 10 minutes ago my gateway magically shut itself, which is kinda >scary, cause im the only one using it and I'm pretty sure that it wasnt >me. So I was wondering how do I find out how it was shutdown. > >I did find this line in auth.log >Jul 20 10:57:22 faraday su[490]: + ??? root-nobody >Just to be on the safe side. is it possible to only allow certain users >to su? > >cheers >Ryan >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > > This may be irrelevant, however did it actually shutdown or simply reboot?? Dodgy ram is a classic for magical reboots mid think. Memtest might be a good idea if you think this may be in the ballpark. Otherwise, NFI but good luck. D. -- "Never ascribe to malice that which may adequately be explained by incompetence." - Napoleon Bonaparte From senectus at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 11:03:16 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:03:16 +0800 Subject: [plug] self shutdown In-Reply-To: <20040721025642.GA3714@tesla> References: <20040721025642.GA3714@tesla> Message-ID: > Just to be on the safe side. is it possible to only allow certain users > to su? I'm pretty sure that you need to be in the "wheel" group to "su" And if your using SSH you can also set it up so only particular people can SSH into it. ( id o this at home, only one account can SSH in, and the that account has to "su" to do "stuff". Which reminds me I need to edit my "wheel" group :-P -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From gpearson at iinet.net.au Wed Jul 21 11:07:51 2004 From: gpearson at iinet.net.au (Daniel Pearson) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:07:51 +0800 Subject: [plug] self shutdown References: <20040721025642.GA3714@tesla> Message-ID: <004d01c46ecf$ea4347e0$0401a8c0@flashware> Wheel group.. I thought that was BSD only that did it like that? Or maybe its just been too long since i've done hands on work with Linux ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Senectus ." To: Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 11:03 AM Subject: Re: [plug] self shutdown > > Just to be on the safe side. is it possible to only allow certain users > > to su? > > I'm pretty sure that you need to be in the "wheel" group to "su" > > And if your using SSH you can also set it up so only particular people > can SSH into it. ( id o this at home, only one account can SSH in, and > the that account has to "su" to do "stuff". > Which reminds me I need to edit my "wheel" group :-P > > > -- > Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. > - PJ, Groklaw.net > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From Adrian at Diskworld.com.au Wed Jul 21 11:11:45 2004 From: Adrian at Diskworld.com.au (Adrian Woodley) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:11:45 +0800 Subject: [plug] Anyone else been watching SCO's stock? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40FDDEF1.2090704@Diskworld.com.au> Senectus . wrote: >I've noticed that their stock has dropped a lot of recent.. and stayed >down.. (US$4.53 >http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=SCOX&t=1y&l=on&z=m&q=l&c= ) for a few >days or so, that that alone is unusual.. especially since this ( >http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/07/20/2024215&tid=88&tid=106 ) >sort of announcement normally drives their stock up for a bit... > > >Is there any general market stuff that I'm not aware of driving this, >or its because of their AZ and DC cases both being placed on hold? > > > > I think this one is also a little telling... http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=1y&s=SCOX&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=IBM Adrian -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 256 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From griffinster at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 11:14:05 2004 From: griffinster at gmail.com (Chris Griffin) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:14:05 +0800 Subject: [plug] Mandrake 10 shutdown question Message-ID: I know I have probably been looking straight at it, but how do I shut down with Mandrake 10? I only seem to get logoff options and at the logon screen all the shutdown/reboot options are greyed out. At the moment I am doing an init 0 in a shell, but that does not power it off and I should be able to do it a little neater than that. Chris G From senectus at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 11:14:15 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:14:15 +0800 Subject: [plug] self shutdown In-Reply-To: <004d01c46ecf$ea4347e0$0401a8c0@flashware> References: <20040721025642.GA3714@tesla> <004d01c46ecf$ea4347e0$0401a8c0@flashware> Message-ID: Well I only know this from when I didn't add my user account to the "wheel" group during my second Gentoo install and this is what stopped me from "su"ing, someone on IRC told me to check it.. Again.. I could be wrong, there may be other ways (more than likely) but that was my experience... regurgitated... On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:07:51 +0800, Daniel Pearson wrote: > Wheel group.. I thought that was BSD only that did it like that? Or maybe > its just been too long since i've done hands on work with Linux ;) > > > > Just to be on the safe side. is it possible to only allow certain users > > > to su? > > > > I'm pretty sure that you need to be in the "wheel" group to "su" > > > > And if your using SSH you can also set it up so only particular people > > can SSH into it. ( id o this at home, only one account can SSH in, and > > the that account has to "su" to do "stuff". > > Which reminds me I need to edit my "wheel" group :-P > > -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From garbuck at westnet.com.au Wed Jul 21 11:24:52 2004 From: garbuck at westnet.com.au (Garry) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:24:52 +0800 Subject: [plug] Anyone else been watching SCO's stock? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40FDE204.6070400@westnet.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Senectus . wrote: | I've noticed that their stock has dropped a lot of recent.. and stayed | down.. (US$4.53 | http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=SCOX&t=1y&l=on&z=m&q=l&c= ) for a few | days or so, that that alone is unusual.. especially since this ( | http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/07/20/2024215&tid=88&tid=106 ) | sort of announcement normally drives their stock up for a bit... | | | Is there any general market stuff that I'm not aware of driving this, | or its because of their AZ and DC cases both being placed on hold? | | I too have been watching it.. If you look down a bit you an see the headlines relating to SCOX.. Often it points to groklaw, which has been relating to how SCO is not travelling too well in the courts.. Seems things are starting to come to a head and the media tactics (which were driving the price...) are being nutted.. But it is entertaining to watch the court progress, the share price and how thin the trading volume is... Garry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFA/eIDvdH9DANniC8RArFTAJ9wd0KTwgvc1XGMNmfhDVGDewPW2QCePVJ0 kJVNhJojwu96ymuewNmcOLU= =oMel -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From garbuck at westnet.com.au Wed Jul 21 11:27:36 2004 From: garbuck at westnet.com.au (Garry) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:27:36 +0800 Subject: [plug] Mandrake 10 shutdown question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40FDE2A8.7090109@westnet.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Chris Griffin wrote: | I know I have probably been looking straight at it, but how do I shut | down with Mandrake 10? | I only seem to get logoff options and at the logon screen all the | shutdown/reboot options are greyed out. At the moment I am doing an | init 0 in a shell, but that does not power it off and I should be able | to do it a little neater than that. If you are using KDE, click on the "K" menu, then "logout". HTH Garry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFA/eKovdH9DANniC8RAlPqAJ0T/LdLTjAf71WS7ztJ6b2OFYDC2QCaAkwN 4nLvY1WM2fZX2cAJrbkbPDg= =XunC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mark at musicalstoat.co.uk Wed Jul 21 11:30:17 2004 From: mark at musicalstoat.co.uk (Mark O'Shea) Date: 21 Jul 2004 11:30:17 +0800 Subject: [plug] self shutdown In-Reply-To: <004d01c46ecf$ea4347e0$0401a8c0@flashware> References: <20040721025642.GA3714@tesla> <004d01c46ecf$ea4347e0$0401a8c0@flashware> Message-ID: <1090380632.1119.4.camel@anya> On Wed, 2004-07-21 at 11:07, Daniel Pearson wrote: > Wheel group.. I thought that was BSD only that did it like that? Or maybe > its just been too long since i've done hands on work with Linux ;) > Well it doesn't do it as standard (some distros might). But you can change the behaviour in /etc/pam.conf or /etc/pam.d/su depending on how your system is set out. YOu can also have slightly more fine grained control as well I think. Regards, -- Mark. From ryan at westnet.net.au Wed Jul 21 11:31:33 2004 From: ryan at westnet.net.au (Ryan Smith) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:31:33 +0800 Subject: [plug] self shutdown In-Reply-To: References: <20040721025642.GA3714@tesla> <004d01c46ecf$ea4347e0$0401a8c0@flashware> Message-ID: <20040721033133.GA3207@tesla> On Wed, Jul 21, 2004 at 11:14:15AM +0800, Senectus . wrote: | | Again.. I could be wrong, there may be other ways (more than likely) | but that was my experience... regurgitated... After adding wheel group and editing pam.d/su, now only I have rights to use su to root. One step closer to a slightly more secure system and curing paranoi a bit. thanks for that. Ryan From mark at musicalstoat.co.uk Wed Jul 21 11:36:37 2004 From: mark at musicalstoat.co.uk (Mark O'Shea) Date: 21 Jul 2004 11:36:37 +0800 Subject: [plug] 2nd NIC not loading In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1090381013.968.9.camel@anya> On Wed, 2004-07-21 at 11:20, Jon Miller wrote: > Looking in /etc/modules there isn't a listing for the 1st nic so if I put this in will this file load before the the 1st nic is loaded? > > Thanks > I don't know actually. There is an easy way to find out though... But you might want to check out /etc/modules.conf and put an alias in for eth1 (alias eth1 e100). On debian though they use files under /etc/modutils/ to build the modules.conf file. So put the alias in /etc/modutils/aliases I hope this helps. -- Mark O'Shea From senectus at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 11:40:30 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:40:30 +0800 Subject: [plug] self shutdown In-Reply-To: <20040721033133.GA3207@tesla> References: <20040721025642.GA3714@tesla> <004d01c46ecf$ea4347e0$0401a8c0@flashware> <20040721033133.GA3207@tesla> Message-ID: Just out of interest... what distro are you using? On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:31:33 +0800, Ryan Smith wrote: > On Wed, Jul 21, 2004 at 11:14:15AM +0800, Senectus . wrote: > | > | Again.. I could be wrong, there may be other ways (more than likely) > | but that was my experience... regurgitated... > After adding wheel group and editing pam.d/su, now only I have rights to > use su to root. One step closer to a slightly more secure system and > curing paranoi a bit. > > thanks for that. > Ryan -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From garbuck at westnet.com.au Wed Jul 21 11:47:48 2004 From: garbuck at westnet.com.au (Garry) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:47:48 +0800 Subject: [plug] Shell commands Message-ID: <40FDE764.2090103@westnet.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 There's an article (http://www.zdnet.com.au/insight/security/0,39023764,39153880,00.htm) which goes into how most of the fuctionality of the DOS shell can be replicated with a linux shell.. Love this: "With this basic scripting knowledge you should be able to easily mimic almost every major Windows command line program." They seem to have forgotten how the DOS shell was a poor imitation of the *nix shells... How dare those linux people copy the DOS shell. ;^)== Garry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFA/edjvdH9DANniC8RAjUPAJ4n2nxNK56yRxDH+v+zyVVsJThhRgCfWyhc jAbFZedS3zVF4/zQnUvi5sk= =Fhmt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From senectus at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 11:52:20 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:52:20 +0800 Subject: [plug] Shell commands In-Reply-To: <40FDE764.2090103@westnet.com.au> References: <40FDE764.2090103@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: Heh.. i have a zip file here of common unix command binaries for windows.. just drop them into the system32 directory and I have grep, ls, gzip, cat, chmod etc etc on the command line :-) Add to that "tab completion from the "power toys" patch and I'm in a nearly familiar environment.. :-) On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:47:48 +0800, Garry wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > There's an article > (http://www.zdnet.com.au/insight/security/0,39023764,39153880,00.htm) > which goes into how most of the fuctionality of the DOS shell can be > replicated with a linux shell.. > > Love this: > > "With this basic scripting knowledge you should be able to easily mimic > almost every major Windows command line program." > > They seem to have forgotten how the DOS shell was a poor imitation of > the *nix shells... > > How dare those linux people copy the DOS shell. ;^)== > > Garry > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFA/edjvdH9DANniC8RAjUPAJ4n2nxNK56yRxDH+v+zyVVsJThhRgCfWyhc > jAbFZedS3zVF4/zQnUvi5sk= > =Fhmt > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From ryan at westnet.net.au Wed Jul 21 11:53:18 2004 From: ryan at westnet.net.au (Ryan Smith) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:53:18 +0800 Subject: [plug] self shutdown In-Reply-To: References: <20040721025642.GA3714@tesla> <004d01c46ecf$ea4347e0$0401a8c0@flashware> <20040721033133.GA3207@tesla> Message-ID: <20040721035318.GB3207@tesla> On Wed, Jul 21, 2004 at 11:40:30AM +0800, Senectus . wrote: | Just out of interest... what distro are you using? | debian - woody | > curing paranoi a bit. Woops I cant spell. From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Wed Jul 21 12:01:09 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:01:09 +0800 Subject: [plug] self shutdown In-Reply-To: <20040721025642.GA3714@tesla> References: <20040721025642.GA3714@tesla> Message-ID: <20040721040109.GA16032@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <20040721025642.GA3714 at tesla> on Wed, Jul 21, 2004 at 10:56:42AM +0800, Ryan Smith wrote: > Jul 20 10:57:22 faraday su[490]: + ??? root-nobody > Just to be on the safe side. is it possible to only allow certain > users to su? Yes: only give the password to certain users ;-) From ryan at westnet.net.au Wed Jul 21 12:09:26 2004 From: ryan at westnet.net.au (Ryan Smith) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:09:26 +0800 Subject: [plug] self shutdown In-Reply-To: <20040721040109.GA16032@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <20040721025642.GA3714@tesla> <20040721040109.GA16032@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <20040721040926.GC3207@tesla> On Wed, Jul 21, 2004 at 12:01:09PM +0800, James Devenish wrote: | In message <20040721025642.GA3714 at tesla> | on Wed, Jul 21, 2004 at 10:56:42AM +0800, Ryan Smith wrote: | > Jul 20 10:57:22 faraday su[490]: + ??? root-nobody | > Just to be on the safe side. is it possible to only allow certain | > users to su? | | Yes: only give the password to certain users ;-) this works. as far as i know im the only one who knows it. but it wont stop any one from using a password cracker Ryan From myk at westnet.com.au Wed Jul 21 12:13:26 2004 From: myk at westnet.com.au (Michael Holland) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:13:26 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] iso9660 and 2GB filesize limit In-Reply-To: References: <1090312163.13924.7.camel@rattus.Localdomain> <20040720104209.GA10425@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jul 2004, Michael Holland wrote: > > If you see that "defective CD-ROM" message in syslog, then I'd guess > > that the attached patch (written by me, utterly untested, use at your > > Eh, WTF. But I'll do a backup first. One nervous kernel patch later ... % ll /cd/ total 2146760083 dr-xr-xr-x 2 root root 2048 Jul 18 23:20 ./ drwxr-xr-x 6 root root 4096 Jun 29 10:09 ../ -rw-r--r-- 1 myk myk 18446744072968614189 Jul 18 22:10 the_closet.mpg % ls -lh /cd/ total 2.0T -rw-r--r-- 1 myk myk 16E Jul 18 22:10 the_closet.mpg Hmmm ... looks like the kernel and utils are quite happy with a 16 exabyte file. But the isofs still cannot cope with >2GB files. % umount /cd ; rmmod isofs -- Reading this .sig? So are your customers. From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Wed Jul 21 12:30:27 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:30:27 +0800 Subject: [plug] Mandrake 10 shutdown question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40FDF163.8070304@postnewspapers.com.au> Chris Griffin wrote: > I know I have probably been looking straight at it, but how do I shut > down with Mandrake 10? > I only seem to get logoff options and at the logon screen all the > shutdown/reboot options are greyed out. At the moment I am doing an > init 0 in a shell, but that does not power it off and I should be able > to do it a little neater than that. To shut down a machine from the command line, run shutdown -h now running 'poweroff' will also work and will go through normal shutdown, but will have unexpected and unpleasant results if you ever try it on a non-Linux system: Power off ... umm, OK, if you're sure. Somewhat like typing 'halt' on most SYSV machines: # halt System Halted probably not the result one wants. For that reason, use 'shutdown -h now'. -- Craig Ringer From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Wed Jul 21 12:32:00 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:32:00 +0800 Subject: [plug] Shell commands In-Reply-To: References: <40FDE764.2090103@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <40FDF1C0.3070804@postnewspapers.com.au> Senectus . wrote: >>"With this basic scripting knowledge you should be able to easily mimic >>almost every major Windows command line program." Indeed. -------- @echo off cd C:\cygwin_setup setup -------- :-P -- Craig Ringer From ahewitt at globaldial.com Wed Jul 21 13:25:47 2004 From: ahewitt at globaldial.com (Adam Hewitt) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 13:25:47 +0800 Subject: [plug] Double emails? Message-ID: <005501c46ee3$2dc89c50$b9023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> Hi All, Is anyone else receiving two of each message from the PLUG list? I have just set up a new email client and I haven't added any rules. I am only subscribed using the one account. I can't see any reason for me getting them, and I am subscribed to multiple lists and it is only happening from PLUG, so its not a mail server issue. Cheers, Adam. From gpearson at iinet.net.au Wed Jul 21 13:27:40 2004 From: gpearson at iinet.net.au (Daniel Pearson) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 13:27:40 +0800 Subject: [plug] Double emails? References: <005501c46ee3$2dc89c50$b9023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <00e701c46ee3$71196de0$0401a8c0@flashware> Nope, not happening here.. all ok on this end. Cheers, Daniel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Hewitt" To: "PLUG" Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 1:25 PM Subject: [plug] Double emails? > Hi All, > > Is anyone else receiving two of each message from the PLUG list? I have > just set up a new email client and I haven't added any rules. I am only > subscribed using the one account. > > I can't see any reason for me getting them, and I am subscribed to > multiple lists and it is only happening from PLUG, so its not a mail > server issue. > > Cheers, > > Adam. > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From renene at barekoala.net Wed Jul 21 13:28:01 2004 From: renene at barekoala.net (Rennie) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 13:28:01 +0800 Subject: [plug] Double emails? In-Reply-To: <005501c46ee3$2dc89c50$b9023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> References: <005501c46ee3$2dc89c50$b9023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <40FDFEE1.3000800@barekoala.net> Not I. Adam Hewitt wrote: >Hi All, > >Is anyone else receiving two of each message from the PLUG list? I have >just set up a new email client and I haven't added any rules. I am only >subscribed using the one account. > >I can't see any reason for me getting them, and I am subscribed to >multiple lists and it is only happening from PLUG, so its not a mail >server issue. > >Cheers, > >Adam. > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > From senectus at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 13:36:04 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 13:36:04 +0800 Subject: [plug] Double emails? In-Reply-To: <40FDFEE1.3000800@barekoala.net> References: <005501c46ee3$2dc89c50$b9023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> <40FDFEE1.3000800@barekoala.net> Message-ID: Me neither. Your all alone >:-) On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 13:28:01 +0800, Rennie wrote: > Not I. > > > > Adam Hewitt wrote: > > >Hi All, > > > >Is anyone else receiving two of each message from the PLUG list? I have > >just set up a new email client and I haven't added any rules. I am only > >subscribed using the one account. > > > >I can't see any reason for me getting them, and I am subscribed to > >multiple lists and it is only happening from PLUG, so its not a mail > >server issue. > > > >Cheers, > > > >Adam. > > > >_______________________________________________ > >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From garbuck at westnet.com.au Wed Jul 21 13:40:00 2004 From: garbuck at westnet.com.au (Garry) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 13:40:00 +0800 Subject: [plug] Double emails? In-Reply-To: <005501c46ee3$2dc89c50$b9023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> References: <005501c46ee3$2dc89c50$b9023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <40FE01B0.3000109@westnet.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Adam Hewitt wrote: | Hi All, | | Is anyone else receiving two of each message from the PLUG list? I have | just set up a new email client and I haven't added any rules. I am only | subscribed using the one account. | | I can't see any reason for me getting them, and I am subscribed to | multiple lists and it is only happening from PLUG, so its not a mail | server issue. Not here.. Are you "Deleting after download" on the server? HTH Garry - -- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFA/gGwvdH9DANniC8RAojtAKDUiodf4a33ua2raU3QCTRr95xXOACghkah L2blmq8Rij7pw8UGfnAfaSU= =CyN4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gpearson at iinet.net.au Wed Jul 21 13:41:13 2004 From: gpearson at iinet.net.au (Daniel Pearson) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 13:41:13 +0800 Subject: [plug] Double emails? References: <005501c46ee3$2dc89c50$b9023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au><40FDFEE1.3000800@barekoala.net> Message-ID: <00fd01c46ee5$57dd3ee0$0401a8c0@flashware> You[']re all alone? Cool, i'll be there soon! :D ----- Original Message ----- From: "Senectus ." To: Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [plug] Double emails? > Me neither. > Your all alone >:-) > > On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 13:28:01 +0800, Rennie wrote: > > Not I. > > > > > > > > Adam Hewitt wrote: > > > > >Hi All, > > > > > >Is anyone else receiving two of each message from the PLUG list? I have > > >just set up a new email client and I haven't added any rules. I am only > > >subscribed using the one account. > > > > > >I can't see any reason for me getting them, and I am subscribed to > > >multiple lists and it is only happening from PLUG, so its not a mail > > >server issue. > > > > > >Cheers, > > > > > >Adam. > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > > >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > > >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > > > -- > Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. > - PJ, Groklaw.net > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From ahewitt at globaldial.com Wed Jul 21 13:54:18 2004 From: ahewitt at globaldial.com (Adam Hewitt) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 13:54:18 +0800 Subject: [plug] Double emails? In-Reply-To: <40FE01B0.3000109@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <005c01c46ee7$296b86f0$b9023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> -----Original Message----- From: plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au [mailto:plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au] On Behalf Of Garry Sent: Wednesday, 21 July 2004 1:40 PM To: plug at plug.linux.org.au Subject: Re: [plug] Double emails? WARNING: Unsanitized content follows. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Not here.. Are you "Deleting after download" on the server? Nope, because I am using IMAP... Adam. - -- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFA/gGwvdH9DANniC8RAojtAKDUiodf4a33ua2raU3QCTRr95xXOACghkah L2blmq8Rij7pw8UGfnAfaSU= =CyN4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au From griffinster at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 13:55:19 2004 From: griffinster at gmail.com (Chris Griffin) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 13:55:19 +0800 Subject: [plug] Shell commands In-Reply-To: References: <40FDE764.2090103@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: And I can get this zip file from? Chris G On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:52:20 +0800, Senectus . wrote: > Heh.. i have a zip file here of common unix command binaries for > windows.. just drop them into the system32 directory and I have grep, > ls, gzip, cat, chmod etc etc on the command line :-) > Add to that "tab completion from the "power toys" patch and I'm in a > nearly familiar environment.. :-) > > > > On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:47:48 +0800, Garry wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > There's an article > > (http://www.zdnet.com.au/insight/security/0,39023764,39153880,00.htm) > > which goes into how most of the fuctionality of the DOS shell can be > > replicated with a linux shell.. > > > > Love this: > > > > "With this basic scripting knowledge you should be able to easily mimic > > almost every major Windows command line program." > > > > They seem to have forgotten how the DOS shell was a poor imitation of > > the *nix shells... > > > > How dare those linux people copy the DOS shell. ;^)== > > > > Garry > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) > > > > iD8DBQFA/edjvdH9DANniC8RAjUPAJ4n2nxNK56yRxDH+v+zyVVsJThhRgCfWyhc > > jAbFZedS3zVF4/zQnUvi5sk= > > =Fhmt > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > > > -- > Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. > - PJ, Groklaw.net > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From ryank at globaldial.com Thu Jul 22 04:54:40 2004 From: ryank at globaldial.com (Ryan King) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 13:54:40 -0700 Subject: [plug] Double emails? In-Reply-To: <005501c46ee3$2dc89c50$b9023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> References: <005501c46ee3$2dc89c50$b9023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <1090443279.3968.20.camel@linux.site> sucks to be you. On Tue, 2004-07-20 at 22:25, Adam Hewitt wrote: > Hi All, > > Is anyone else receiving two of each message from the PLUG list? I have > just set up a new email client and I haven't added any rules. I am only > subscribed using the one account. > > I can't see any reason for me getting them, and I am subscribed to > multiple lists and it is only happening from PLUG, so its not a mail > server issue. > > Cheers, > > Adam. > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au From griffinster at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 14:03:16 2004 From: griffinster at gmail.com (Chris Griffin) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 14:03:16 +0800 Subject: [plug] Mandrake 10 shutdown question In-Reply-To: <40FDE2A8.7090109@westnet.com.au> References: <40FDE2A8.7090109@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: That's what I have tried. But this only gets me back to the logon screen where the shutdown and reboot options are greyed out. I actually want to do a shutdown. On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:27:36 +0800, Garry wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Chris Griffin wrote: > | I know I have probably been looking straight at it, but how do I shut > > > | down with Mandrake 10? > | I only seem to get logoff options and at the logon screen all the > | shutdown/reboot options are greyed out. At the moment I am doing an > | init 0 in a shell, but that does not power it off and I should be able > | to do it a little neater than that. > > If you are using KDE, click on the "K" menu, then "logout". > > HTH > > Garry > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFA/eKovdH9DANniC8RAlPqAJ0T/LdLTjAf71WS7ztJ6b2OFYDC2QCaAkwN > 4nLvY1WM2fZX2cAJrbkbPDg= > =XunC > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Wed Jul 21 14:04:29 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 14:04:29 +0800 Subject: [plug] Double emails? In-Reply-To: <1090443279.3968.20.camel@linux.site> References: <005501c46ee3$2dc89c50$b9023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> <1090443279.3968.20.camel@linux.site> Message-ID: <40FE076D.7020403@smlintl.com.au> Hi Adam, I don't know but maybe cause you signed up with an alias. e.g. account at blah blah is aliased to you. I have had that work and just changed it around. Anyways just a suggestion. Ryan King wrote: >sucks to be you. > >On Tue, 2004-07-20 at 22:25, Adam Hewitt wrote: > > >>Hi All, >> >>Is anyone else receiving two of each message from the PLUG list? I have >>just set up a new email client and I haven't added any rules. I am only >>subscribed using the one account. >> >>I can't see any reason for me getting them, and I am subscribed to >>multiple lists and it is only happening from PLUG, so its not a mail >>server issue. >> >>Cheers, >> >>Adam. >> >>_______________________________________________ >>PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >>http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >>Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > From sjung at mail2me.com.au Wed Jul 21 14:12:02 2004 From: sjung at mail2me.com.au (Aaron Thorn) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 14:12:02 +0800 Subject: [plug] Internet logs and firewall Message-ID: <200407211412.02798.sjung@mail2me.com.au> hi all, In mandrake 10 is there any logs that keep a track on what internet sites you have visited? I?ve set up the mandrake firewall using the KDE gui but I don?t get the option to set the net device to ppp0(which is my dialup connection). The only options I have are eth0 and eth1. Does this mean only my ethernet connections are protected? how do you force the firewall to work only work on your dialup connection? Thanks PS. How do you change your computer name? From senectus at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 14:08:20 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 14:08:20 +0800 Subject: [plug] Shell commands In-Reply-To: References: <40FDE764.2090103@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 13:55:19 +0800, Chris Griffin wrote: > And I can get this zip file from? > Me.. Just ask :-) -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From griffinster at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 14:12:39 2004 From: griffinster at gmail.com (Chris Griffin) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 14:12:39 +0800 Subject: [plug] Mandrake 10 shutdown question In-Reply-To: <40FDF163.8070304@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <40FDF163.8070304@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: This is what I have been doing :shutdown -h now" but it does not power it off like it used too. But I also figure that the logon menu items should not be greyed out? On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:30:27 +0800, Craig Ringer wrote: > > > Chris Griffin wrote: > > I know I have probably been looking straight at it, but how do I shut > > down with Mandrake 10? > > I only seem to get logoff options and at the logon screen all the > > shutdown/reboot options are greyed out. At the moment I am doing an > > init 0 in a shell, but that does not power it off and I should be able > > to do it a little neater than that. > > To shut down a machine from the command line, run > shutdown -h now > running 'poweroff' will also work and will go through normal shutdown, > but will have unexpected and unpleasant results if you ever try it on a > non-Linux system: > > Power off ... umm, OK, if you're sure. > > Somewhat like typing 'halt' on most SYSV machines: > > # halt > System Halted > > probably not the result one wants. For that reason, use 'shutdown -h now'. > > -- > Craig Ringer > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Wed Jul 21 14:19:09 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 14:19:09 +0800 Subject: [plug] Internet logs and firewall In-Reply-To: <200407211412.02798.sjung@mail2me.com.au> References: <200407211412.02798.sjung@mail2me.com.au> Message-ID: <40FE0ADD.90605@smlintl.com.au> I'm assuming that it is guard dog that you are using. http://www.simonzone.com/software/guarddog/manual2/index.html That should answer your question if it is. My suggestion look at iptables and a gui interface on that. Aaron Thorn wrote: >hi all, >In mandrake 10 is there any logs that keep a track on what internet sites you >have visited? > >I?ve set up the mandrake firewall using the KDE gui but I don?t get the option >to set the net device to ppp0(which is my dialup connection). The only >options I have are eth0 and eth1. Does this mean only my ethernet connections >are protected? how do you force the firewall to work only work on your dialup >connection? > >Thanks > >PS. How do you change your computer name? >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > From sjung at mail2me.com.au Wed Jul 21 14:33:22 2004 From: sjung at mail2me.com.au (Aaron Thorn) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 14:33:22 +0800 Subject: [plug] Running pppd by command prompt. Message-ID: <200407211433.22855.sjung@mail2me.com.au> Another beginners question. I'm setting up internet sharing with my mandrake server and a windows xp computer and want to know the best way to make the mandrake server dialup my isp when the XP computer wants to surf the net. I thinking I?ll need to telnet into the mandrake computer and initiate pppd. Is there any other way? and how do you run pppd by command prompt? I?ve only used the KDE GUI to run pppd Thanks Again. PS. I now look at windows as a games console OS!! From PBennett at arg.net.au Wed Jul 21 14:33:43 2004 From: PBennett at arg.net.au (Bennett, Phillip) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 14:33:43 +0800 Subject: [plug] Running pppd by command prompt. Message-ID: <851545268AD5D5118929000629A8722A0299A1F1@mail.arg.net.au> Try using wvdial. AFAIK, this has auto connect and auto re-connect. It's command line driven, but a quick google should return some good results. hth, Phil. -----Original Message----- From: Aaron Thorn [mailto:sjung at mail2me.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 21 July 2004 2:33 PM To: plug at plug.linux.org.au Subject: [plug] Running pppd by command prompt. Another beginners question. I'm setting up internet sharing with my mandrake server and a windows xp computer and want to know the best way to make the mandrake server dialup my isp when the XP computer wants to surf the net. I thinking I?ll need to telnet into the mandrake computer and initiate pppd. Is there any other way? and how do you run pppd by command prompt? I?ve only used the KDE GUI to run pppd Thanks Again. PS. I now look at windows as a games console OS!! _______________________________________________ PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sjung at mail2me.com.au Wed Jul 21 14:37:33 2004 From: sjung at mail2me.com.au (Aaron Thorn) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 14:37:33 +0800 Subject: [plug] Re: Running pppd by command prompt. In-Reply-To: <200407211433.22855.sjung@mail2me.com.au> References: <200407211433.22855.sjung@mail2me.com.au> Message-ID: <200407211437.33855.sjung@mail2me.com.au> Whoops, I meant KPPP not pppd. On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 02:33 pm, you wrote: > Another beginners question. I'm setting up internet sharing with my > mandrake server and a windows xp computer and want to know the best way to > make the mandrake server dialup my isp when the XP computer wants to surf > the net. I thinking I?ll need to telnet into the mandrake computer and > initiate pppd. Is there any other way? and how do you run pppd by command > prompt? I?ve only used the KDE GUI to run pppd > > Thanks Again. > > PS. I now look at windows as a games console OS!! From russ at powerstech.com Wed Jul 21 14:29:53 2004 From: russ at powerstech.com (Russ Powers) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 14:29:53 +0800 Subject: [plug] Mandrake 10 shutdown question In-Reply-To: References: <40FDE2A8.7090109@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <200407211429.53965.russ@powerstech.com> On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 02:03 pm, Chris Griffin wrote: > That's what I have tried. But this only gets me back to the logon > screen where the shutdown and reboot options are greyed out. I > actually want to do a shutdown. Have you done it as root? > > On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:27:36 +0800, Garry wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Chris Griffin wrote: > > | I know I have probably been looking straight at it, but how do I shut > > | > > | > > | down with Mandrake 10? > > | I only seem to get logoff options and at the logon screen all the > > | shutdown/reboot options are greyed out. At the moment I am doing an > > | init 0 in a shell, but that does not power it off and I should be able > > | to do it a little neater than that. > > > > If you are using KDE, click on the "K" menu, then "logout". > > > > HTH > > > > Garry > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) > > > > iD8DBQFA/eKovdH9DANniC8RAlPqAJ0T/LdLTjAf71WS7ztJ6b2OFYDC2QCaAkwN > > 4nLvY1WM2fZX2cAJrbkbPDg= > > =XunC > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -- Regards, Russ From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Wed Jul 21 14:36:45 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 14:36:45 +0800 Subject: [plug] Internet logs and firewall In-Reply-To: <200407211412.02798.sjung@mail2me.com.au> References: <200407211412.02798.sjung@mail2me.com.au> Message-ID: <40FE0EFD.5090003@postnewspapers.com.au> Aaron Thorn wrote: > hi all, > In mandrake 10 is there any logs that keep a track on what internet sites you > have visited? There might be - it depends on what browser you use. Mozilla and Konqueror both support browsing histories, but both permit you to disable them in the application preferences. I advise you to go digging in your app preferences if you wish to disable this. If you're looking for a more generalised logging facility, you'd need to use something like squid (a proxy server) or do some serious trickery with iptables. -- Craig Ringer From russ at powerstech.com Wed Jul 21 14:30:58 2004 From: russ at powerstech.com (Russ Powers) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 14:30:58 +0800 Subject: [plug] Double emails? In-Reply-To: <40FE01B0.3000109@westnet.com.au> References: <005501c46ee3$2dc89c50$b9023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> <40FE01B0.3000109@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <200407211430.58433.russ@powerstech.com> I've gotten a few doubles, but not every message. On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 01:40 pm, Garry wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Adam Hewitt wrote: > | Hi All, > | > | Is anyone else receiving two of each message from the PLUG list? I have > | just set up a new email client and I haven't added any rules. I am only > | subscribed using the one account. > | > | I can't see any reason for me getting them, and I am subscribed to > | multiple lists and it is only happening from PLUG, so its not a mail > | server issue. > > Not here.. > > Are you "Deleting after download" on the server? > > HTH > > > Garry > > > - -- > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFA/gGwvdH9DANniC8RAojtAKDUiodf4a33ua2raU3QCTRr95xXOACghkah > L2blmq8Rij7pw8UGfnAfaSU= > =CyN4 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -- Regards, Russ From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Wed Jul 21 14:36:10 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 14:36:10 +0800 Subject: [plug] Running pppd by command prompt. In-Reply-To: <200407211433.22855.sjung@mail2me.com.au> References: <200407211433.22855.sjung@mail2me.com.au> Message-ID: <40FE0EDA.2060803@smlintl.com.au> Ok for the sake of explanation I have dsl and it turns on as I reboot my computer and its been way to long for me to remember how to use pppd since I always had a separate line for dialup. I had a look up on the web and I have a link for ya to answer your question. http://axion.physics.ubc.ca/ppp-linux.html Have a look it does answer your question and the majority of isp's btw use pap. Aaron Thorn wrote: >Another beginners question. I'm setting up internet sharing with my mandrake >server and a windows xp computer and want to know the best way to make the >mandrake server dialup my isp when the XP computer wants to surf the net. I >thinking I?ll need to telnet into the mandrake computer and initiate pppd. Is >there any other way? and how do you run pppd by command prompt? I?ve only >used the KDE GUI to run pppd > >Thanks Again. > >PS. I now look at windows as a games console OS!! >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Wed Jul 21 14:39:32 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 14:39:32 +0800 Subject: [plug] Running pppd by command prompt. In-Reply-To: <200407211433.22855.sjung@mail2me.com.au> References: <200407211433.22855.sjung@mail2me.com.au> Message-ID: <40FE0FA4.2080901@smlintl.com.au> Aaron, Here's another link I found. http://www.linuxgazette.com/node/view/3448 Aaron Thorn wrote: >Another beginners question. I'm setting up internet sharing with my mandrake >server and a windows xp computer and want to know the best way to make the >mandrake server dialup my isp when the XP computer wants to surf the net. I >thinking I?ll need to telnet into the mandrake computer and initiate pppd. Is >there any other way? and how do you run pppd by command prompt? I?ve only >used the KDE GUI to run pppd > >Thanks Again. > >PS. I now look at windows as a games console OS!! >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > From griffinster at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 15:46:33 2004 From: griffinster at gmail.com (Chris Griffin) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 15:46:33 +0800 Subject: [plug] Mandrake 10 shutdown question In-Reply-To: <200407211429.53965.russ@powerstech.com> References: <40FDE2A8.7090109@westnet.com.au> <200407211429.53965.russ@powerstech.com> Message-ID: Yup, same story. On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 14:29:53 +0800, Russ Powers wrote: > On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 02:03 pm, Chris Griffin wrote: > > That's what I have tried. But this only gets me back to the logon > > screen where the shutdown and reboot options are greyed out. I > > actually want to do a shutdown. > > Have you done it as root? > > > > > On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:27:36 +0800, Garry wrote: > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > > > Chris Griffin wrote: > > > | I know I have probably been looking straight at it, but how do I shut > > > | > > > | > > > | down with Mandrake 10? > > > | I only seem to get logoff options and at the logon screen all the > > > | shutdown/reboot options are greyed out. At the moment I am doing an > > > | init 0 in a shell, but that does not power it off and I should be able > > > | to do it a little neater than that. > > > > > > If you are using KDE, click on the "K" menu, then "logout". > > > > > > HTH > > > > > > Garry > > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) > > > > > > iD8DBQFA/eKovdH9DANniC8RAlPqAJ0T/LdLTjAf71WS7ztJ6b2OFYDC2QCaAkwN > > > 4nLvY1WM2fZX2cAJrbkbPDg= > > > =XunC > > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > > > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > > > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > -- > Regards, > Russ > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From mark at musicalstoat.co.uk Wed Jul 21 16:09:25 2004 From: mark at musicalstoat.co.uk (Mark O'Shea) Date: 21 Jul 2004 16:09:25 +0800 Subject: [plug] Mandrake 10 shutdown question In-Reply-To: References: <40FDE2A8.7090109@westnet.com.au> <200407211429.53965.russ@powerstech.com> Message-ID: <1090397367.968.27.camel@anya> On Wed, 2004-07-21 at 15:46, Chris Griffin wrote: > Yup, same story. > > On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 14:29:53 +0800, Russ Powers wrote: > > On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 02:03 pm, Chris Griffin wrote: > > > That's what I have tried. But this only gets me back to the logon > > > screen where the shutdown and reboot options are greyed out. I > > > actually want to do a shutdown. > > > > Have you done it as root? Hi, I don't know if Mandrake has any custom frontends for doing this but normally kde can be made to change this behaviour by using the control center, in the system settings->Login manager-> sessions -> allow shutdowns -> console. You need to be logged on as root to make the changes. This is assuming you are using kdm as the desktop manager. Regards, -- Mark O'Shea From darts at dialix.com.au Wed Jul 21 17:29:33 2004 From: darts at dialix.com.au (Dave Dartnall) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 17:29:33 +0800 Subject: [Plug] Mysql installation In-Reply-To: <40FBBF80.6010405@westnet.com.au> References: <200407141731.15960.darts@dialix.com.au> <200407181707.17851.darts@dialix.com.au> <40FBBF80.6010405@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <200407211729.33110.darts@dialix.com.au> On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 08:33 pm, Jim Householder wrote: > > spending the best part of a day and a half on it, got rid of mysql as far > > as possible and tried postgresql - with success! > > So I apologise for wasting your time - please accept my thanks for trying > > to help. > > Time *not* wasted - learning experience! :-) Certainly for me! Thanks again Dave > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au From bernard at blackham.com.au Wed Jul 21 19:01:30 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 19:01:30 +0800 Subject: [plug] Fw: [plug-ctte] Modem problems Message-ID: <20040721110129.GW2239@blackham.com.au> ----- Forwarded message from Terry Hunt ----- Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 01:51:08 +1000 (EST) From: Terry Hunt Subject: [plug-ctte] Modem problems Hi there, Just seeing if there's any-one at P.L.U.G. that can point me in the right direction in regards to actually being able to get a modem to work on my new Mandrake system. I was at the installfest at the week-end and got Mandrake put on my computer but no-one explained how difficult it would be to be able to get this thing to work on-line. I'm sorry I have no expertise with the inner machinations of this magical device I'm sitting in front of, I'm used to Windows doing all the work, even if I have to pay Microsoft every time I need to actually do something with the thing. I thought I'd try Linux to see if the claims of new user-friendlyness were true. I've talked to Linux IT about a modem to work on Linux and only get blank stares as if I've asked a rude question. A computer shop sold me a new modem saying that they thought it may work ( No-one was prepared to put thier name on the line). I have looked up a few sites on the net ( thank god for Explorer ) and it seems to me that user-friendly and modem are not words that go together in the Linux world. The crux of the matter is: Can I go out and buy a modem that I can plug into this computer to make my shiny new Linux system work on the Net. If so please,please, please point me in that direction. Thanks very much for your time and any help you may be able to supply. Terry Hunt ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Bernard Blackham From bernard at blackham.com.au Wed Jul 21 19:09:48 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 19:09:48 +0800 Subject: [plug] Fw: [plug-ctte] Modem problems In-Reply-To: <20040721110129.GW2239@blackham.com.au> References: <20040721110129.GW2239@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: <20040721110948.GY2239@blackham.com.au> On Wed, Jul 21, 2004 at 07:01:30PM +0800, Bernard Blackham wrote: > ----- Forwarded message from Terry Hunt ----- D'oh. Should read all my mail first ... sorry about the duplication. Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Wed Jul 21 20:42:38 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 20:42:38 +0800 Subject: [plug] Fw: [plug-ctte] Modem problems In-Reply-To: <20040721110129.GW2239@blackham.com.au> References: <20040721110129.GW2239@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: <40FE64BE.4010002@postnewspapers.com.au> Frankly, this illustrates one of my concerns about installfests and about people telling others that "you should use linux". It's very hard to properly explain to people the issues they're likely to encounter such as their PCI/USB 56k/DSL modem, webcam, 3D accel, external disk devices, 802.11{ag} hardware, etc possibly not working or taking considerable extra effort to get working. In particular, I think the winmodem spiel (TM) is very, very important. "These things are a pain, and don't work well with Linux. I don't know if your model will work and don't have time to look into it now, so be aware that you may not be able to use it under Linux or it might take a lot of complex fiddling." Saying "Linux is great, it'll solve all your problems, blah blah" will frequently result in disappointed, frustrated new users. Presumably that's not what is desired. -- Craig Ringer From caston at arach.net.au Wed Jul 21 21:31:01 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 21:31:01 +0800 Subject: [plug] Fw: [plug-ctte] Modem problems In-Reply-To: <40FE64BE.4010002@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <20040721110129.GW2239@blackham.com.au> <40FE64BE.4010002@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <1090416661.4297.21.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2004-07-21 at 20:42, Craig Ringer wrote: > Frankly, this illustrates one of my concerns about installfests and > about people telling others that "you should use linux". It's very hard > to properly explain to people the issues they're likely to encounter > such as their PCI/USB 56k/DSL modem, webcam, 3D accel, external disk > devices, 802.11{ag} hardware, etc possibly not working or taking > considerable extra effort to get working. > > In particular, I think the winmodem spiel (TM) is very, very important. > "These things are a pain, and don't work well with Linux. I don't know > if your model will work and don't have time to look into it now, so be > aware that you may not be able to use it under Linux or it might take a > lot of complex fiddling." > > Saying "Linux is great, it'll solve all your problems, blah blah" will > frequently result in disappointed, frustrated new users. Presumably > that's not what is desired. > As a person that fixes peoples Windows (and hardware) problems 12 hours a day, 6 days week can I easily attest that there are many many areas in which setting up hardware and software under Linux is much easier than it is under Windows. Sure there's a handful of little annoying things that poke out but they become less and less of a problem as the software develops. Add to this that the pace of development in open source software is probably the fastest it has ever been.Look at where Linux was 2 years ago compared to where it is today. Now imagine it next year and the year after. The mind boggles. For example setting up a cd burner under Linux used to be a big pain (especially for new users) but now with 2.6 you can just do cdrecord -dev=/dev/cdrom without messing about installing ide-scsi modules or playing with lilo. Sure when you buy hardware you get Windows software and drivers with it but it's always different and works only with the hardware it came with and constantly changing. With Linux you have mostly the same open source tools that will work with hardware from most vendors. Contrast this is Windows: * Different vendor wireless utilities * Different TV tuner software (that only works with the card it was bundled with) * Different printer and scanner utilities (all dumbed down to the point of being almost useless) with almost no conformity * The dopey and crazily organised Nero Express 2 as well as an earlier version of Nero that had stupid stuff bundled like Media center that caused XP to BSOD. * The time you need to spend downloading drivers and wading through manufacturers websites like the Aopen site that always seems to load slower than XP on a PII Celeron with 64mb RAM. > -- > Craig Ringer > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From adam_ashley at softhome.net Wed Jul 21 21:36:53 2004 From: adam_ashley at softhome.net (Adam Ashley) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 21:36:53 +0800 Subject: [plug] Fw: [plug-ctte] Modem problems In-Reply-To: <40FE64BE.4010002@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <20040721110129.GW2239@blackham.com.au> <40FE64BE.4010002@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <1090417013.8334.1.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2004-07-21 at 20:42 +0800, Craig Ringer wrote: > Frankly, this illustrates one of my concerns about installfests and > about people telling others that "you should use linux". It's very hard > to properly explain to people the issues they're likely to encounter > such as their PCI/USB 56k/DSL modem, webcam, 3D accel, external disk > devices, 802.11{ag} hardware, etc possibly not working or taking > considerable extra effort to get working. > > In particular, I think the winmodem spiel (TM) is very, very important. > "These things are a pain, and don't work well with Linux. I don't know > if your model will work and don't have time to look into it now, so be > aware that you may not be able to use it under Linux or it might take a > lot of complex fiddling." > actually at the installfest i was helping one guy with his gentoo install and it took less than 5mins to get the winmodem working :) of course it was a lucent winmodem so emerge ltmodem killall -HUP devfsd Adam From caston at arach.net.au Wed Jul 21 22:11:24 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 22:11:24 +0800 Subject: [plug] Fw: [plug-ctte] Modem problems In-Reply-To: <1090417013.8334.1.camel@localhost> References: <20040721110129.GW2239@blackham.com.au> <40FE64BE.4010002@postnewspapers.com.au> <1090417013.8334.1.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1090419084.4297.27.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2004-07-21 at 21:36, Adam Ashley wrote: > On Wed, 2004-07-21 at 20:42 +0800, Craig Ringer wrote: > > Frankly, this illustrates one of my concerns about installfests and > > about people telling others that "you should use linux". It's very hard > > to properly explain to people the issues they're likely to encounter > > such as their PCI/USB 56k/DSL modem, webcam, 3D accel, external disk > > devices, 802.11{ag} hardware, etc possibly not working or taking > > considerable extra effort to get working. > > > > In particular, I think the winmodem spiel (TM) is very, very important. > > "These things are a pain, and don't work well with Linux. I don't know > > if your model will work and don't have time to look into it now, so be > > aware that you may not be able to use it under Linux or it might take a > > lot of complex fiddling." > > > > actually at the installfest i was helping one guy with his gentoo > install and it took less than 5mins to get the winmodem working :) > > of course it was a lucent winmodem so > > emerge ltmodem > killall -HUP devfsd > > Adam I'll second that but with Debian. When I first started using Linux fulltime when I had moved from Windows I couldn't get a ISA modem working but it had worked previously with Redhat. I went out and bought one from Megamart and had it running within an hour thanks to help from linmodems.org The LtWinmodems are very common. In Windows I usually don't bother trying to find modem drivers because the cost of another card is usually half the cost in labour time that it takes to scour the web for the driver on good day. > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From garbuck at westnet.com.au Thu Jul 22 08:30:58 2004 From: garbuck at westnet.com.au (Garry) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 08:30:58 +0800 Subject: [plug] It has started Message-ID: <40FF0AC2.6080608@westnet.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Here's news all of us have been expecting... On Groklaw: "Eyewitness Reports from the DC Hearing - SCO Trounced" http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20040721122325926 Looks like Daimler Chrysler have sent SCO packing, with only a question of response time to be answered. (And a suggested reason is given...) This will be good news to those who are asked questions by Linux [potential] customers about the SCO show. Happy with that. 8^)== Garry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFA/wrCvdH9DANniC8RAg9kAKCRy4QR3Rj/BGXsl27KTDJDjpkLqgCeLH6j AiOwadZ1nBrhQJU+8vgvQhg= =JLjs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From myk at westnet.com.au Wed Jul 21 12:59:01 2004 From: myk at westnet.com.au (Michael Holland) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:59:01 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Mandrake 10 shutdown question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jul 2004, Chris Griffin wrote: > I know I have probably been looking straight at it, but how do I shut > down with Mandrake 10? from the console, the 3-finger salute will do it. See /etc/inittab for the 'shutdown' command line that it runs. > I only seem to get logoff options and at the logon screen all the > shutdown/reboot options are greyed out. At the moment I am doing an Did you do a text-mode login, and start X from there? > init 0 in a shell, but that does not power it off and I should be able Do you have ACPI enabled? -- Reading this .sig? So are your customers. From myk at westnet.com.au Thu Jul 22 10:21:47 2004 From: myk at westnet.com.au (Michael Holland) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 10:21:47 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Re: Running pppd by command prompt. In-Reply-To: <200407211437.33855.sjung@mail2me.com.au> References: <200407211433.22855.sjung@mail2me.com.au> <200407211437.33855.sjung@mail2me.com.au> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jul 2004, Aaron Thorn wrote: > Whoops, I meant KPPP not pppd. Why? Whats wrong with running pppd from the command prompt? It _is_ designed for that. Install it set-uid-root, and put the desired options in /etc/ppp/peers/ . e.g. % pppd call Who needs all that extra complexity of GUI layers? More to go wrong. -- Reading this .sig? So are your customers. From myk at westnet.com.au Thu Jul 22 10:44:33 2004 From: myk at westnet.com.au (Michael Holland) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 10:44:33 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Internet logs and firewall In-Reply-To: <200407211412.02798.sjung@mail2me.com.au> References: <200407211412.02798.sjung@mail2me.com.au> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jul 2004, Aaron Thorn wrote: > In mandrake 10 is there any logs that keep a track on what internet sites you > have visited? Judging by the auto-completion of previously visited URLs in mozilla, I'd say yes. See the Mozilla Feelthy Perverts FAQ for ways to disable that. Remember, Echelon and your God are always watching. As well as the web browser, its possible you (or your ISP) are using a proxy (squid?) which may keep logs. The OS itself does not log IP traffic by host or domain. > PS. How do you change your computer name? See 'hostname' command. On Mandrake startup, you can put it in /etc/sysconfig/network , or just /etc/hosts (or DNS?) if the port is up on boot. -- Reading this .sig? So are your customers. From dsbrown at cyllene.uwa.edu.au Thu Jul 22 11:43:38 2004 From: dsbrown at cyllene.uwa.edu.au (Denis Brown) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 11:43:38 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Linux/OSS based network knowledge packages? In-Reply-To: References: <200407211412.02798.sjung@mail2me.com.au> Message-ID: Dear PLUG list members, Network diagramming / database software, preferrably open source, to run on Linux that someone has actually used... The Windows-based netViz (www.netviz.com) dr.diagram book suite looks ideal. Google has several suggestions but Scotty/Tkined, MapNet, Geotraceman do not do what I'm after at a cabling level, that I can see. They are too high-level. My pipe dream is a system for capturing and reguritating physical network data, for easy troubleshooting. For example a fibre cable between two buildings has certain physical characteristics - it has been puchased and installed by identifiable entities (for asset tracking purposes), it consists of N circuits, each circuit carries one or more subnets, each end terminates at some site, building, level, room number, rack number, patchpanel ID, connector IDs and possibly also listing connector type. This cable may appear on one or more site drawings, so the relevant drawing number(s) also need to be recorded. Each circuit in the cable, at each end, is patched to some other cable / equipment - such as a switch or router, or possibly a straight-through fibre patch to another between-building or between-floor cable. And so on. Each item of equipment is then recorded... a switch has N ports, a model & serial number, an admin username/password and IP adddress (if managable switch)[1], what type of ports (fibre, UTP, ...), what subnet(s) does it handle, etc. In a database model there would be tables for cable runs, various types of equipment, etc. On the "output" side of this collection of data it should then be possible to query by subnet -- find all cables, switches, maybe even patchleads, media convertors, etc that pertain to it. Query by building/level/room etc to find out what would be affected if power was lost to this location, and so on. Query by equipment ID - if I want to manage this switch, what is its username/password or where do I find it on the 'net. Netviz looks ideal and maybe I should just look into costs and whether it will run on Crossover Office, for example. But I thought I'd ask here first for any other solutions that people find handy in the real world, especially if they're open source. Scale-wise we're talking several sites, several buildings, most multi-floor and a userbase (number of network appliances, printers, PCs, servers) in the high hundreds. TIA, Denis [1] obviously we'd be talking a secure database here!! From griffinster at gmail.com Thu Jul 22 13:42:46 2004 From: griffinster at gmail.com (Chris Griffin) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 13:42:46 +0800 Subject: [plug] Mandrake 10 shutdown question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:59:01 +0800 (WST), Michael Holland wrote: > On Wed, 21 Jul 2004, Chris Griffin wrote: > > > I know I have probably been looking straight at it, but how do I shut > > down with Mandrake 10? > > from the console, the 3-finger salute will do it. See /etc/inittab for > the 'shutdown' command line that it runs. I was trying to avoid this sort of thing, anyway the three finger salute would result in a reboot, not a shutdown. > > > I only seem to get logoff options and at the logon screen all the > > shutdown/reboot options are greyed out. At the moment I am doing an > > Did you do a text-mode login, and start X from there? > No, init level is set to 5 at startup. > > > init 0 in a shell, but that does not power it off and I should be able > > Do you have ACPI enabled? > Mm, I would have to check this one. What does ACPI do? > > -- > Reading this .sig? So are your customers. > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From Adrian at Diskworld.com.au Thu Jul 22 13:46:31 2004 From: Adrian at Diskworld.com.au (Adrian Woodley) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 13:46:31 +0800 Subject: [plug] Which Wiki? Message-ID: <40FF54B7.6000406@Diskworld.com.au> G'Day all, We've decided to use a Wiki to for office documentation (procedures, etc). Simple question followed by a slightly harder one:- 1. Which wiki would people recommend? I think the two most important features are ease of use, particularly a sensible mark-up, and good handling of bullets and numbered list. 2. Is it better to store the wiki in a database, flat file or something else? Cheers, Adrian -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 256 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From Milan.Pospisil at swantafe.wa.edu.au Thu Jul 22 13:55:55 2004 From: Milan.Pospisil at swantafe.wa.edu.au (Milan Pospisil) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 13:55:55 +0800 Subject: [plug] Fw: [plug-ctte] Modem problems Message-ID: >>> bernard at blackham.com.au 07/21/04 07:01pm wrote:>>> ----- Forwarded message from Terry Hunt ----- Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 01:51:08 +1000 (EST) From: Terry Hunt Subject: [plug-ctte] Modem problems >Hi there, >Just seeing if there's any-one at P.L.U.G. that can point me in the right >direction in regards to actually being able to get a modem to work on my new >Mandrake system. I was at the installfest at the week-end and got Mandrake put >on my computer but no-one explained how difficult it would be to be able to get >this thing to work on-line. I'm sorry I have no expertise with the inner >machinations of this magical device I'm sitting in front of, I'm used to >Windows doing all the work, even if I have to pay Microsoft every time I need >to actually do something with the thing. I thought I'd try Linux to see if the >claims of new user-friendlyness were true. I've talked to Linux IT about a >modem to work on Linux and only get blank stares as if I've asked a rude >question. A computer shop sold me a new modem saying that they thought it may >work ( No-one was prepared to put thier name on the line). Have you actually bought a new modem? If yes, what brand and model? If it does not work I would take it back! Clearly, they should have been able to tell you if the product what they are selling works with Linux or not! There is a shop in Osborne Park called Navada Computers which is Linux-friendly; in most other cases your average computer shop assistant may or may not have an answer to your Linux related question/problem for various reasons. Having said that a word of warning: Stay away from Austin Computers in Osborne Park as they are clearly hostile to Linux and rearly will miss an opportunity to have a go at anyone who dares to mention Linux in their shop; Austin Computers in Cannington are OK. >I have looked up a few sites on the net ( thank god for Explorer ) and it seems >to me that user-friendly and modem are not words that go together in the Linux >world. Go to Gogle(http://www.google.com) ->Advanced Search -> Linux - Search all penguin-friendly pages, click on the blue highlighted word Linux and in the new search promt type: external linux modem or go to Google and in the URL(address) promt type: http://www.google.com.au/linux and as above in the search promt type: external linux modem >The crux of the matter is: Can I go out and buy a modem that I can plug into >this computer to make my shiny new Linux system work on the Net. Yes, you can. Generally, most of the external modems will work with Linux as they do not rely on the operating system(Windows) to work. I am using a Cougar Spirit modem which I bought some years ago(bit old now) and never had any problems with it as to Linux compatibility. > If so please,please, please point me in that direction. >Thanks very much for your time and any help you may be able to supply. >Terry Hunt >snip< There is a PLUG workshop meeting every fourth Monday of the month(ie this comming Monday 26.7.04) at the University of WA (Cameron Hall loft, UWA. Upstairs from the Tavern. at 7:30PM till 11PM ) http://www.plug.linux.org.au/events/workshop Perhaps you could bring your computer and your modem with you. Regards Milan Pospisil From myk at westnet.com.au Thu Jul 22 15:17:00 2004 From: myk at westnet.com.au (Michael Holland) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:17:00 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Mandrake 10 shutdown question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Chris Griffin wrote: > > from the console, the 3-finger salute will do it. See /etc/inittab for > > the 'shutdown' command line that it runs. > I was trying to avoid this sort of thing, anyway the three finger > salute would result in a reboot, not a shutdown. Not if you modify -r to -h in the line I mentioned above. Why avoid it? It does the proper scripted shutdown. > Mm, I would have to check this one. What does ACPI do? Power management. Newer alternative to APM. -- Reading this .sig? So are your customers. From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Thu Jul 22 15:46:15 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:46:15 +0800 Subject: [plug] Which Wiki? In-Reply-To: <40FF54B7.6000406@Diskworld.com.au> References: <40FF54B7.6000406@Diskworld.com.au> Message-ID: <20040722074615.GG10425@cp.yi.org> Adrian Woodley wrote: > 1. Which wiki would people recommend? I think the two most > important features are ease of use, particularly a sensible mark-up, and > good handling of bullets and numbered list. I like Odd Muse. It's simple, the mark-up is simple, installation is relatively painless as it's just a perl script, and if you need more functionality you can write perl modules to extend it (or download ones that others have written from oddmuse.org). It's less than amazing speed-wise, though, so if you expect a lot of concurrent users or have a slow server, you may wish to avoid it. There's decent documentation on http://www.oddmuse.org/ Cameron. From r.steicke at bom.gov.au Thu Jul 22 16:29:32 2004 From: r.steicke at bom.gov.au (Russell Steicke) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 16:29:32 +0800 Subject: [plug] Which Wiki? In-Reply-To: <40FF54B7.6000406@Diskworld.com.au> References: <40FF54B7.6000406@Diskworld.com.au> Message-ID: <20040722082932.GC3619@postoffice.wa.bom.gov.au> On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 01:46:31PM +0800, Adrian Woodley wrote: ... > 1. Which wiki would people recommend? I think the two most > important features are ease of use, particularly a sensible mark-up, and > good handling of bullets and numbered list. I use moinmoin for my own notes (http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/). It was very simple to install, but the markup can be a bit verbose. It uses lots of double and triple quotes, eg '''''foo''''' makes foo bold italic, and fixed width font is done with {{{text here}}}. We have an internal twiki (http://twiki.org/) at work. The markup is a bit easier on the eye than moinmoin's. > 2. Is it better to store the wiki in a database, flat file or > something else? Both of these store data in files, which is my preference for simplicity. Moinmoin stores each revision in a file with a time-stamped name, and twiki uses RCS files. You can backup the whole thing easily with a short shell script. If you think you're going to be explaining the markup to people, I'd recommend twiki over moinmoin. -- Russell Steicke -- Fortune says: Now there's a violent movie titled, "The Croquet Homicide," or "Murder With Mallets Aforethought." -- Shelby Friedman, WSJ. From shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au Thu Jul 22 16:32:56 2004 From: shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au (Shayne O'Neill) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 16:32:56 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Which Wiki? In-Reply-To: <20040722082932.GC3619@postoffice.wa.bom.gov.au> Message-ID: Theres a few out there now that use htmlarea (including my own one which alas I'm not really into explaining how to set up, since its servlet(!) based) I saw another htmlarea one the other day, and alas cant remember the name, but these are great, since its pretty much wysiwyg, and on the windoze boxes even let folks paste in word stuff with formatting etc intact. -- "the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 27, 2003 Shayne O'Neill. http://www.perthimc.asn.au On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Russell Steicke wrote: > On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 01:46:31PM +0800, Adrian Woodley wrote: > ... > > 1. Which wiki would people recommend? I think the two most > > important features are ease of use, particularly a sensible mark-up, and > > good handling of bullets and numbered list. > > I use moinmoin for my own notes (http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/). It > was very simple to install, but the markup can be a bit verbose. It > uses lots of double and triple quotes, eg '''''foo''''' makes foo bold > italic, and fixed width font is done with {{{text here}}}. > > We have an internal twiki (http://twiki.org/) at work. The markup is a > bit easier on the eye than moinmoin's. > > > 2. Is it better to store the wiki in a database, flat file or > > something else? > > Both of these store data in files, which is my preference for > simplicity. Moinmoin stores each revision in a file with a time-stamped > name, and twiki uses RCS files. You can backup the whole thing easily > with a short shell script. > > If you think you're going to be explaining the markup to people, I'd > recommend twiki over moinmoin. > > > > > > -- > Russell Steicke > > -- Fortune says: > Now there's a violent movie titled, "The Croquet Homicide," or "Murder > With Mallets Aforethought." > -- Shelby Friedman, WSJ. > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au Thu Jul 22 16:39:56 2004 From: shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au (Shayne O'Neill) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 16:39:56 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Which Wiki? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: http://piece.stanford.edu/~brendano/wysimoin/ knock yerself out. Works with moz, firefox, ie > v5.1 does not work with ie on mac , opera and konq/safari -- "the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 27, 2003 Shayne O'Neill. http://www.perthimc.asn.au On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Shayne O'Neill wrote: > > Theres a few out there now that use htmlarea (including my own one which > alas I'm not really into explaining how to set up, since its servlet(!) > based) > > I saw another htmlarea one the other day, and alas cant remember the name, > but these are great, since its pretty much wysiwyg, and on the windoze > boxes even let folks paste in word stuff with formatting etc intact. > > -- > "the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And > we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." > George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 27, 2003 > > Shayne O'Neill. http://www.perthimc.asn.au > > On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Russell Steicke wrote: > > > On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 01:46:31PM +0800, Adrian Woodley wrote: > > ... > > > 1. Which wiki would people recommend? I think the two most > > > important features are ease of use, particularly a sensible mark-up, and > > > good handling of bullets and numbered list. > > > > I use moinmoin for my own notes (http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/). It > > was very simple to install, but the markup can be a bit verbose. It > > uses lots of double and triple quotes, eg '''''foo''''' makes foo bold > > italic, and fixed width font is done with {{{text here}}}. > > > > We have an internal twiki (http://twiki.org/) at work. The markup is a > > bit easier on the eye than moinmoin's. > > > > > 2. Is it better to store the wiki in a database, flat file or > > > something else? > > > > Both of these store data in files, which is my preference for > > simplicity. Moinmoin stores each revision in a file with a time-stamped > > name, and twiki uses RCS files. You can backup the whole thing easily > > with a short shell script. > > > > If you think you're going to be explaining the markup to people, I'd > > recommend twiki over moinmoin. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Russell Steicke > > > > -- Fortune says: > > Now there's a violent movie titled, "The Croquet Homicide," or "Murder > > With Mallets Aforethought." > > -- Shelby Friedman, WSJ. > > _______________________________________________ > > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From r.steicke at bom.gov.au Thu Jul 22 17:08:24 2004 From: r.steicke at bom.gov.au (Russell Steicke) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:08:24 +0800 Subject: [plug] Which Wiki? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040722090824.GE3619@postoffice.wa.bom.gov.au> On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 04:39:56PM +0800, Shayne O'Neill wrote: > > http://piece.stanford.edu/~brendano/wysimoin/ (Oops, meant to send to list.) Thanks, I'll give that a go. One thing I forgot to mention about twiki: you can install a drawing plugin. It's a java applet that lets you edit drawings inline. It saves some sort of vector format description of the lines and boxes in the drawing, and a gif file for display. http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/TWikiDrawPlugin -- Russell Steicke -- Fortune says: OS/2 must die! From hooker at iinet.net.au Thu Jul 22 17:12:41 2004 From: hooker at iinet.net.au (hooker at iinet.net.au) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:12:41 +0800 Subject: [plug] Which Wiki? In-Reply-To: <40FF54B7.6000406@Diskworld.com.au> References: <40FF54B7.6000406@Diskworld.com.au> Message-ID: <1090487561.40ff8509da08c@mail.iinet.net.au> Quoting Adrian Woodley : > G'Day all, > We've decided to use a Wiki to for office documentation > (procedures, etc). Simple question followed by a slightly harder one:- > > 1. Which wiki would people recommend? I think the two most > important features are ease of use, particularly a sensible mark-up, and > good handling of bullets and numbered list. > > 2. Is it better to store the wiki in a database, flat file or > something else? I ended up writing my own specifically to handle technical documents, and it works well, at least for me. I store the raw wiki text in flat files, and convert from raw to HTML immediately after editing. Bold is handled using *word*, and italic by _word_, pretty much like Usenet and email. I didn't implement numbered lists, but it shouldn't be hard to do. Hooker From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Thu Jul 22 17:35:03 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:35:03 +0800 Subject: [plug] Fwd: Server boot problem ! Message-ID: <20040722093503.GA20291@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Another non-subscriber enquiry. ----- Forwarded message from mahesh ----- Message-ID: <000b01c46f15$9573ff20$6400a8c0 at win2k> From: "mahesh" To: Subject: [plug] Server boot problem ! Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 16:40:04 +0530 I have one Redhat Linux 7.3 Box. When i try to boot this server , i get this problem. "Freeing unused kernel memory: 280k freed". So server can not boot. how to solve this problem? plz advise. ----- End forwarded message ----- From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Thu Jul 22 17:38:21 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:38:21 +0800 Subject: [plug] Fwd: Server boot problem ! In-Reply-To: <20040722093503.GA20291@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <20040722093503.GA20291@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <20040722093821.GA18549@cp.yi.org> James Devenish wrote: > Another non-subscriber enquiry. > ----- Forwarded message from mahesh ----- I find it curious that we seem to get quite a few messages from India. Is there another Perth over there, or another PLUG perhaps, or perhaps it's just coincidence? Cameron. From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Thu Jul 22 17:49:42 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:49:42 +0800 Subject: [plug] Fwd: Server boot problem ! In-Reply-To: <20040722093821.GA18549@cp.yi.org> References: <20040722093503.GA20291@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <20040722093821.GA18549@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <20040722094942.GA20435@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <20040722093821.GA18549 at cp.yi.org> on Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 05:38:21PM +0800, Cameron Patrick wrote: > James Devenish wrote: > > Another non-subscriber enquiry. > > ----- Forwarded message from mahesh ----- > > I find it curious that we seem to get quite a few messages from > India. Yeah, and they get all our phone calls ;-) > Is there another Perth over there, or another PLUG perhaps, or perhaps > it's just coincidence? Maybe the person who replies to the original poster can ask? It does seem odd that overseas people would seek English-language support from. ^ | Perth Google does actually list http://www.plug.org.in/ (Pune GNU/Linux Users' Group) which is in English. Not sure how that explains people sending e-mail to plug at plug.linux.org.au instead of plug-mail at plug.org.in On the other hand, enter 'PLUG linux' into Google USA and click "I'm feeling lucky"... From garbuck at westnet.com.au Thu Jul 22 18:33:12 2004 From: garbuck at westnet.com.au (Garry) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 18:33:12 +0800 Subject: [plug] Linspire song Message-ID: <40FF97E8.9040008@westnet.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Following the $20M payment from MS, Linspire seems to have felt creative... http://www.linspire.com/RunLinspireFlash.php 8^)== Garry - -- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFA/5fovdH9DANniC8RAmizAJ0YcJalzkwc6fQ6hIjNo26vtt2FJACg6fPf XpwzpDHgSuJsQkQa8TJA3Xs= =9e9H -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gpearson at iinet.net.au Thu Jul 22 18:36:37 2004 From: gpearson at iinet.net.au (Daniel Pearson) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 18:36:37 +0800 Subject: [plug] Linspire song References: <40FF97E8.9040008@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <028201c46fd7$c4741450$0401a8c0@flashware> Strange.. I was only just looking at that last night, heh. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garry" To: Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 6:33 PM Subject: [plug] Linspire song > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > Following the $20M payment from MS, Linspire seems to have felt creative... > > > > http://www.linspire.com/RunLinspireFlash.php > > 8^)== > > Garry > > - -- > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFA/5fovdH9DANniC8RAmizAJ0YcJalzkwc6fQ6hIjNo26vtt2FJACg6fPf > XpwzpDHgSuJsQkQa8TJA3Xs= > =9e9H > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au Thu Jul 22 19:40:29 2004 From: shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au (Shayne O'Neill) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 19:40:29 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Which Wiki? In-Reply-To: <1090487561.40ff8509da08c@mail.iinet.net.au> Message-ID: taglist = { '[heading]':'

','[/heading]':'

', '[bold]':'','[/bold]':'', '[italics]':'','[/italics]':'', '[imageleft]':'', '[imageright]':'', '\n':'
','\\"':'"', '\\\'':'\'', '[[':'',']]':'', '[=':'Click here', '':' ','':' ' def rendertext(wikitext): for k,v in taglist: self.text = self.text.replace(str(k),str(v)) return self.text instant wiki. (add code to accept edits, display, store and retrieve, and bobs yer uncle) -- "the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 27, 2003 Shayne O'Neill. http://www.perthimc.asn.au On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 hooker at iinet.net.au wrote: > Quoting Adrian Woodley : > > G'Day all, > > We've decided to use a Wiki to for office documentation > > (procedures, etc). Simple question followed by a slightly harder one:- > > > > 1. Which wiki would people recommend? I think the two most > > important features are ease of use, particularly a sensible mark-up, and > > good handling of bullets and numbered list. > > > > 2. Is it better to store the wiki in a database, flat file or > > something else? > > I ended up writing my own specifically to handle technical documents, and it > works well, at least for me. I store the raw wiki text in flat files, and > convert from raw to HTML immediately after editing. Bold is handled using > *word*, and italic by _word_, pretty much like Usenet and email. I didn't > implement numbered lists, but it shouldn't be hard to do. > > Hooker > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au Thu Jul 22 19:41:15 2004 From: shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au (Shayne O'Neill) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 19:41:15 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Fwd: Server boot problem ! In-Reply-To: <20040722094942.GA20435@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: Our reputations precede us. -- "the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 27, 2003 Shayne O'Neill. http://www.perthimc.asn.au On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, James Devenish wrote: > In message <20040722093821.GA18549 at cp.yi.org> > on Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 05:38:21PM +0800, Cameron Patrick wrote: > > James Devenish wrote: > > > Another non-subscriber enquiry. > > > ----- Forwarded message from mahesh ----- > > > > I find it curious that we seem to get quite a few messages from > > India. > > Yeah, and they get all our phone calls ;-) > > > Is there another Perth over there, or another PLUG perhaps, or perhaps > > it's just coincidence? > > Maybe the person who replies to the original poster can ask? > It does seem odd that overseas people would seek English-language > support from. > ^ > | > Perth > > Google does actually list http://www.plug.org.in/ (Pune GNU/Linux Users' > Group) which is in English. Not sure how that explains people sending > e-mail to plug at plug.linux.org.au instead of plug-mail at plug.org.in > On the other hand, enter 'PLUG linux' into Google USA and click "I'm > feeling lucky"... > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From brad at wasp.net.au Thu Jul 22 21:08:24 2004 From: brad at wasp.net.au (Brad Campbell) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:08:24 +0400 Subject: [plug] Fwd: Server boot problem ! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40FFBC48.9050109@wasp.net.au> Shayne O'Neill wrote: > Our reputations precede us. > Plug seems to have one of the best google archives. A number of searches end up pulling stuff from our mailing list archive. On another note, I note an increase lately of requests for certain information mainly related to tcp sockets and sk_buff structures on the linux-kernel list that appear to be coming from Indian students, not unlike the one we had here a while ago. I am wondering if perhaps an Indian university or school is using the linux kernel as part of its course and one of the tasks is modification of the tcp stack in some way. A lot of the questions are quite similar and simple. I'd like to hope thats what it's all about anyway :p) Regards, Brad From arie99 at ozemail.com.au Thu Jul 22 21:56:22 2004 From: arie99 at ozemail.com.au (Arie Hol) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 21:56:22 +0800 Subject: [plug] Newbie Install of Debain "woody" Message-ID: <41003806.17687.B57758@localhost> After the attending the installfest as an observer, I got brave and decided to try and install Debian 'woody' and say goodbye to RH 7.3. I installed Debian from the DVD that came with the June edition of APC magazine. The PC I installed on had no DVD drive, so I copied the whole shebang onto a 6 Gb partition on the HDD, over a 10 Mbit/s network (oooooooh sooooooooo sloooooooooooow !!!!!!!!!!!!!), but I succeeded. I then made up a set of installation boot disks according to the instructions in the APC magazine. Everything went well - and I now have a base installation of Debian 'woody' which multiboots with Win98 using lilo. The machine is stable, and runs quite well (so far) Problem 1 -------------- For installing software I could not get dselect to accept any of the paths to the partition/directories where all the Package.gz and *.deb files are located. In fstab I have : /dev/hda12 /mnt/setup vfat defaults 0 0 So the path required for dselect should be (I hope) : /mnt/setup/pool/main/l/less/less_374-4_i386.deb But dselect spits the dummy - I moves on to tasksel (?????) Problem 2 --------------- I could not figure out how to use tasksel - so I gave up and went straight to dpkg using : dpkg --install /mnt/setup/pool/main/l/less/less_374-4_i386.deb And it worked - now all I have to do is figure which software to install out 8,250 .deb files stored on /setup. I suppose I should start with the 'X Windows system' ---- Can somebody tell me what I should and should not install - and is there a correct sequence ( I suppose this raises many questions about what the system will be used for etc.etc....) just basic system at the moment - will expand as my skill level grows and my dependancy on M$oft recedes. Problem 3 -------------- Cannot get network card to work - the nic is an ethernet express (eepro.o is the required module and worked OK for RH 7.3 ) insmod will install the module (using autodetect=1) and I can ping 127.0.0.1 no problems, but 'Network Unreachable' on all other IP's on my network. The module will not install at system boot - dmesg shows : eepro_init_module: Probe is very dangerous in ISA boards! eepro_init_module: Please add "autodetect=1" to force probe Where do I add the '"autodetect=1" to have it work from boot up. I have been trying the advice given to Jon Miller on the list over the last few days - but no luck. I have been reading the Debian FAQ and relevant How-To's - but no luck. Tire lots of things - but no luck. Problem X --------------- I will probably start a flame war because of my choice of Debian over Gentoo, Suse, Mandrake etc, etc..... I like them all - but the ones I have tried would not install/configure correctly on this particular PC - AMD K6-2/450 - 128 Mb RAM - 20Gb HDD - Matrox G400 (but detected as a G200). I like so much about Debian and its supporting philosophies - and since doing the base install I now have a better understanding/appreciation of how Linux addresses hardware - a factor which is hidden from most people when installing RH, Mandrake and Suse etc.... due to their really great installers TIA. All and any advice will greatly appreciated. >--------------------------------------------------------------< For the concert of life, nobody has a program. >--------------------------------------------------------------< From shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au Thu Jul 22 23:04:33 2004 From: shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au (Shayne O'Neill) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 23:04:33 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Fwd: Server boot problem ! In-Reply-To: <40FFBC48.9050109@wasp.net.au> Message-ID: Perhaps its worth finding a resource we can point these kids at if its the same question over and over? -- "the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 27, 2003 Shayne O'Neill. http://www.perthimc.asn.au On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Brad Campbell wrote: > Shayne O'Neill wrote: > > Our reputations precede us. > > > > Plug seems to have one of the best google archives. A number of searches end up pulling stuff from > our mailing list archive. > > On another note, I note an increase lately of requests for certain information mainly related to tcp > sockets and sk_buff structures on the linux-kernel list that appear to be coming from Indian > students, not unlike the one we had here a while ago. I am wondering if perhaps an Indian university > or school is using the linux kernel as part of its course and one of the tasks is modification of > the tcp stack in some way. A lot of the questions are quite similar and simple. > > I'd like to hope thats what it's all about anyway :p) > > Regards, > Brad > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From fostware at westnet.com.au Thu Jul 22 23:14:18 2004 From: fostware at westnet.com.au (Craig Foster) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 23:14:18 +0800 Subject: [plug] Newbie Install of Debain "woody" In-Reply-To: <41003806.17687.B57758@localhost> Message-ID: <20040722151433.9511478D7@spark.plug.linux.org.au> >From a RHCE who worked in a Debian shop... > -----Original Message----- > From: plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au > [mailto:plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au] On Behalf Of Arie Hol > Sent: Thursday, 22 July 2004 9:56 PM > To: plug at plug.linux.org.au > Subject: [plug] Newbie Install of Debain "woody" > > > > After the attending the installfest as an observer, I got > brave and decided to try and install Debian 'woody' and say > goodbye to RH 7.3. Fair enough... :) > I installed Debian from the DVD that came with the June > edition of APC magazine. > > The PC I installed on had no DVD drive, so I copied the whole > shebang onto a 6 Gb partition on the HDD, over a 10 Mbit/s > network (oooooooh sooooooooo sloooooooooooow !!!!!!!!!!!!!), > but I succeeded. Never underestimate, whether it's ADSL overnight or a PLUG workshop in minutes, installing an "old" woody 3.2 and using "apt-get dist-upgrade" > I then made up a set of installation boot disks according to > the instructions in the APC magazine. > > Everything went well - and I now have a base installation of > Debian 'woody' which multiboots with > Win98 using lilo. > > The machine is stable, and runs quite well (so far) > > Problem 1 > -------------- > For installing software I could not get dselect to accept any > of the paths to the partition/directories where all the > Package.gz and *.deb files are located. > > In fstab I have : > > /dev/hda12 /mnt/setup vfat defaults > 0 0 > > So the path required for dselect should be (I hope) : > > /mnt/setup/pool/main/l/less/less_374-4_i386.deb > > But dselect spits the dummy - I moves on to tasksel (?????) Forget dselect if you're approaching this as a newbie!!! Ask yourself what you want to do with your machine and run tasksel, or apt-cache search / apt-get install. > Problem 2 > --------------- > > I could not figure out how to use tasksel - so I gave up and > went straight to dpkg using : > > dpkg --install /mnt/setup/pool/main/l/less/less_374-4_i386.deb > > And it worked - now all I have to do is figure which software > to install out 8,250 .deb files stored on /setup. > > I suppose I should start with the 'X Windows system' ---- > > Can somebody tell me what I should and should not install - > and is there a correct sequence ( I suppose this raises many > questions about what the system will be used for etc.etc....) > just basic system at the moment - will expand as my skill > level grows and my dependancy on M$oft recedes. Think of something application wise. Eg Gnumeric. Apt-get install gnumeric and watch all the requirements download/copy/install automatically. > Problem 3 > -------------- > Cannot get network card to work - the nic is an ethernet > express (eepro.o is the required module and worked OK for RH > 7.3 ) insmod will install the module (using autodetect=1) and > I can ping > 127.0.0.1 no problems, but 'Network Unreachable' on all other > IP's on my network. > > The module will not install at system boot - dmesg shows : > > eepro_init_module: Probe is very dangerous in ISA boards! > eepro_init_module: Please add "autodetect=1" to force probe > > Where do I add the '"autodetect=1" to have it work from boot up. > > I have been trying the advice given to Jon Miller on the list > over the last few days - but no luck. > > I have been reading the Debian FAQ and relevant How-To's - > but no luck. > > Tire lots of things - but no luck. Urgh! The old eepro100 vs e100 debate :P Try e100 as a module and see how that goes... > Problem X > --------------- > I will probably start a flame war because of my choice of > Debian over Gentoo, Suse, Mandrake etc, etc..... > > I like them all - but the ones I have tried would not > install/configure correctly on this particular PC - AMD > K6-2/450 - 128 Mb RAM - 20Gb HDD - Matrox G400 (but detected > as a G200). > > I like so much about Debian and its supporting philosophies - > and since doing the base install I now have a better > understanding/appreciation of how Linux addresses hardware - > a factor which is hidden from most people when installing RH, > Mandrake and Suse etc.... due to their really great installers Umm I use apt for RedHat (fedoralegacy.org and FreshRPMS)... You can also use the sarge beta installer as referenced on this list previously. It uses Anaconda (yes the RedHat text installer), so it's a little more intuitive > TIA. > All and any advice will greatly appreciated. I can understand what you're going through. I used to be RedHat only, until I did a stint at a business that pretty much only did Debian. I suppose the most important thing I learnt it to ignore dselect during installation and rely on the magic of apt. Regards, CraigF. From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Thu Jul 22 23:24:16 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 23:24:16 +0800 Subject: [plug] Newbie Install of Debain "woody" In-Reply-To: <20040722151433.9511478D7@spark.plug.linux.org.au> References: <41003806.17687.B57758@localhost> <20040722151433.9511478D7@spark.plug.linux.org.au> Message-ID: <20040722152416.GH10425@cp.yi.org> Craig Foster wrote: > Never underestimate, whether it's ADSL overnight or a PLUG workshop in > minutes, installing an "old" woody 3.2 and using "apt-get > dist-upgrade" (Presumably you mean upgrading the machine to Sarge or Sid? There is no Debian 3.2: the current release is Woody, a.k.a. Debian 3.0, and the next release, Sarge, will be Debian 3.1.) > > So the path required for dselect should be (I hope) : > > > > /mnt/setup/pool/main/l/less/less_374-4_i386.deb > > > > But dselect spits the dummy - I moves on to tasksel (?????) Rather than messing around with dselect, use apt. Run apt-setup, tell it you have files on a local filesystem, enter /mnt/setup at the appropriate time, and away you go. > Forget dselect if you're approaching this as a newbie!!! > Ask yourself what you want to do with your machine and run tasksel, or > apt-cache search / apt-get install. Aptitude is also kind of nice, if you're into full-screen text-based UIs. > > Problem 3 > > -------------- > > Cannot get network card to work - [...] > > 7.3 ) insmod will install the module (using autodetect=1) and [...] > > Where do I add the '"autodetect=1" to have it work from boot up. Make a file in /etc/modutils/ (e.g. /etc/modutils/eepro) and put in it: options eepro autodetect=1 Then run update-modutils. Cameron. From vk6ksj at westnet.com.au Thu Jul 22 23:41:12 2004 From: vk6ksj at westnet.com.au (Kai) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 23:41:12 +0800 Subject: [plug] Linspire song In-Reply-To: <40FF97E8.9040008@westnet.com.au> References: <40FF97E8.9040008@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <40FFE018.2000606@westnet.com.au> Hehehe, gold ! Speaking of MS and their attitude (towards Linux), I just read this: http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/dw_blog_comments.jspa?blog=318&entry=54781&ca=dgr-+lnxw20MOC%3EMicrosoft (that URL will wrap, sorry) I think the aticle is good but I thought his version of FUD is classic: FUD == (fear, uncertainty, and decepti-- er, doubt) Cheers Kai -- currently in Hylteberga, Sk?ne, Sverige Garry wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > Following the $20M payment from MS, Linspire seems to have felt creative... > > > > http://www.linspire.com/RunLinspireFlash.php > > 8^)== > > Garry From caston at arach.net.au Thu Jul 22 23:53:21 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (Chris Caston) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 23:53:21 +0800 Subject: [plug] Newbie Install of Debain "woody" In-Reply-To: <20040722152416.GH10425@cp.yi.org> References: <41003806.17687.B57758@localhost> <20040722151433.9511478D7@spark.plug.linux.org.au> <20040722152416.GH10425@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <1090511601.2131.12.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2004-07-22 at 23:24, Cameron Patrick wrote: > Craig Foster wrote: > > > Never underestimate, whether it's ADSL overnight or a PLUG workshop in > > minutes, installing an "old" woody 3.2 and using "apt-get > > dist-upgrade" > > (Presumably you mean upgrading the machine to Sarge or Sid? There is > no Debian 3.2: the current release is Woody, a.k.a. Debian 3.0, and the > next release, Sarge, will be Debian 3.1.) So the next release after that will be Debian 95? ;) > From arie99 at ozemail.com.au Fri Jul 23 00:42:36 2004 From: arie99 at ozemail.com.au (Arie Hol) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 00:42:36 +0800 Subject: [plug] Newbie Install of Debain "woody" In-Reply-To: <20040722152416.GH10425@cp.yi.org> References: <20040722151433.9511478D7@spark.plug.linux.org.au> Message-ID: <41005EFC.6898.14DAFC0@localhost> On 22 Jul 2004 at 23:24, Cameron Patrick wrote: > Rather than messing around with dselect, use apt. Run apt-setup, > tell it you have files on a local filesystem, enter /mnt/setup at the > appropriate time, and away you go. apt-setup would not accept the above settings - played around a bit and edited /etc/apt/sources.list which now looks like this : deb file:/mnt/setup/ dists/woody/main/binary-i386/ deb file:/mnt/setup/ dists/woody/contrib/binary-i386/ apt-setup is happy and so am I. > Make a file in /etc/modutils/ (e.g. /etc/modutils/eepro) and put in it: > > options eepro autodetect=1 > > Then run update-modutils. update-modutils not on my machine - so I rebooted and played around - 2 reboots and eth0 is up and working I can now ping my network. Thanks for the help Cameron, now it's time for more reading and learning until I get something else wrong. Might even try getting some sleep. Cheers >--------------------------------------------------------------< For the concert of life, nobody has a program. >--------------------------------------------------------------< From fostware at westnet.com.au Fri Jul 23 06:58:48 2004 From: fostware at westnet.com.au (Craig Foster) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 06:58:48 +0800 Subject: [plug] Newbie Install of Debain "woody" In-Reply-To: <1090511601.2131.12.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20040722225904.332F378A4@spark.plug.linux.org.au> No, there's still a version with better network setup called 3.11 for workgroups... Oooh that works on sooo many levels :P ^_^ Sorry I meant 3.0r2 ^_^ CraigF. > -----Original Message----- > From: plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au > [mailto:plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au] On Behalf Of Chris Caston > Sent: Thursday, 22 July 2004 11:53 PM > To: plug at plug.linux.org.au > Subject: Re: [plug] Newbie Install of Debain "woody" > > On Thu, 2004-07-22 at 23:24, Cameron Patrick wrote: > > Craig Foster wrote: > > > > > Never underestimate, whether it's ADSL overnight or a > PLUG workshop > > > in minutes, installing an "old" woody 3.2 and using "apt-get > > > dist-upgrade" > > > > (Presumably you mean upgrading the machine to Sarge or Sid? > There is > > no Debian 3.2: the current release is Woody, a.k.a. Debian 3.0, and > > the next release, Sarge, will be Debian 3.1.) > > So the next release after that will be Debian 95? > ;) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From jtwarwick at iinet.net.au Fri Jul 23 07:27:13 2004 From: jtwarwick at iinet.net.au (Jay Warwick) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 07:27:13 +0800 Subject: [plug] newbie - office install on wine Message-ID: <1090538833.25517.23.camel@holin01.jtajt.local> Tried to run wine that came with Mandrake 10, but wouldn't work so I decided to go it alone by installing the latest version (Wine 20040716). Everything seems ok i.e. I can open notepad, but get the following error trying to install office 2000. This error is created after right clicking on setup.exe and choosing 'wine' Error Start - err:wave:OSS_WaveOutInit /dev/mixer1: No such file or directory fixme:msi:MsiEnableLogA 00000516 "c:\\windows\\temp\\Office 2000 Premium Setup(0012)_MsiExec.txt" 0 fixme:msi:MsiInstallProductW L"Z:\\mnt\\cdrom2\\data1.msi" L" " fixme:msi:HANDLE_CustomType1 DATABASE NOT THREADSAFE... not starting fixme:msi:HANDLE_CustomType1 DATABASE NOT THREADSAFE... not starting fixme:msi:HANDLE_CustomType1 DATABASE NOT THREADSAFE... not starting fixme:msi:HANDLE_CustomType1 DATABASE NOT THREADSAFE... not starting fixme:msi:HANDLE_CustomType1 DATABASE NOT THREADSAFE... not starting err:msi:COND_GetOne Got unknown character /(2f) - Error Finish This produces an error in a window - Error Start - [ProductNameNonQualified] setup needs to replace some Windows system components. This requires administrator rights. Please log in as an administrator to complete [ProductNameNonQualified] Setup. - Error Finish After clicking ok the wineconsole closes and the error window disappears so i can't get any more info. Note - I no longer using M$Office instead preferring openoffice but need to keep a windows machine for the kids school stuff. When I send documents I send in native openoffice format including in the e-mail how the receiver can download openoffice to open document. If they don't want to download I then convert to pdf using openoffice. just wondering what else we can do to help convert others to Linux and other open source applications. Thanks JW From bernard at blackham.com.au Fri Jul 23 07:55:36 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 07:55:36 +0800 Subject: [plug] Newbie Install of Debain "woody" In-Reply-To: <41005EFC.6898.14DAFC0@localhost> References: <20040722151433.9511478D7@spark.plug.linux.org.au> <41005EFC.6898.14DAFC0@localhost> Message-ID: <20040722235535.GJ2239@blackham.com.au> On Fri, Jul 23, 2004 at 12:42:36AM +0800, Arie Hol wrote: > > Make a file in /etc/modutils/ (e.g. /etc/modutils/eepro) and put in it: > > > > options eepro autodetect=1 > > > > Then run update-modutils. > > update-modutils not on my machine - so I rebooted and played > around - 2 reboots and eth0 is up and working I can now ping my > network. update-modules is the one you're after. Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From weirdo at tigris.org Fri Jul 23 20:04:29 2004 From: weirdo at tigris.org (Tim White) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 08:04:29 -0400 Subject: [plug] Default Route, ppp, LAN Message-ID: <1090584268.1288.6.camel@linmedia> Hi. I normally access the net through a gateway on the LAN. Occasionally I need to dialup myself (e.g. When I am not on the LAN or I am testing a different server) When I dialup if eth0 is still up with the default route set to point at the gateway then ppp0 can't set it's self as the default route and I can't access the internet through ppp0. If I bring eth0 down then ppp0 up then eth0 up it also fails[1] as it appears to be trying to get it's DNS from a non existent server on the LAN rather than the ISP.[2] I want it to be able to stay on the LAN while connected to the net so that I may also be able to share the connection with the LAN. This is similar to a problem I am having with a temporary gateway. So that it can act as a gateway I can't set the default route to the LAN gateway. Thanks Tim [1] Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface 211.29.214.254 * 255.255.255.255 UH 0 0 0 ppp0 192.168.0.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth0 default dw 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 eth0 default 211.29.214.254 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 ppp0 Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface welax13.optusne * 255.255.255.255 UH 0 0 0 ppp0 default welax13.optusne 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 ppp0 [2] From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Fri Jul 23 08:38:10 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 08:38:10 +0800 Subject: [plug] Default Route, ppp, LAN In-Reply-To: <1090584268.1288.6.camel@linmedia> References: <1090584268.1288.6.camel@linmedia> Message-ID: <41005DF2.9090203@smlintl.com.au> Create 2 separate connections and make the default gw as part of the connection. I run Fedora which is basically red-hat. So for me where the "script" is for my network connection I have eth0 and then another eth1 connection. Since I use a laptop my only problem is drivers. However that seemed to work for me. e.g. /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ Thats where the network scripts are on my system. The two files are: ifcfg-eth0 ifcfg-eth1 ifcfg-ppp0 ifcfg-lo I don't know what system so I can sorta help any further since some or most systems are different and similar in there own way. Tim White wrote: >Hi. I normally access the net through a gateway on the LAN. Occasionally >I need to dialup myself (e.g. When I am not on the LAN or I am testing a >different server) >When I dialup if eth0 is still up with the default route set to point at >the gateway then ppp0 can't set it's self as the default route and I >can't access the internet through ppp0. >If I bring eth0 down then ppp0 up then eth0 up it also fails[1] as it >appears to be trying to get it's DNS from a non existent server on the >LAN rather than the ISP.[2] >I want it to be able to stay on the LAN while connected to the net so >that I may also be able to share the connection with the LAN. >This is similar to a problem I am having with a temporary gateway. So >that it can act as a gateway I can't set the default route to the LAN >gateway. >Thanks >Tim > >[1] >Kernel IP routing table >Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use >Iface >211.29.214.254 * 255.255.255.255 UH 0 0 0 >ppp0 >192.168.0.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 >eth0 >default dw 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 >eth0 >default 211.29.214.254 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 >ppp0 >Kernel IP routing table >Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use >Iface >welax13.optusne * 255.255.255.255 UH 0 0 0 >ppp0 >default welax13.optusne 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 >ppp0 > >[2] > > > > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > From weirdo at tigris.org Fri Jul 23 20:41:11 2004 From: weirdo at tigris.org (Tim White) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 08:41:11 -0400 Subject: [plug] Default Route, ppp, LAN In-Reply-To: <41005DF2.9090203@smlintl.com.au> References: <1090584268.1288.6.camel@linmedia> <41005DF2.9090203@smlintl.com.au> Message-ID: <1090586471.1287.8.camel@linmedia> Sorry. This is Debian 3.0r1 (Knoppix 3.4 hd-install) Tim On Thu, 2004-07-22 at 20:38, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Create 2 separate connections and make the default gw as part of the > connection. > > I run Fedora which is basically red-hat. So for me where the "script" > is for my network connection I have eth0 and then another eth1 > connection. Since I use a laptop my only problem is drivers. However > that seemed to work for me. > > e.g. /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ > Thats where the network scripts are on my system. > The two files are: > ifcfg-eth0 > ifcfg-eth1 > ifcfg-ppp0 > ifcfg-lo > > I don't know what system so I can sorta help any further since some or > most systems are different and similar in there own way. > > Tim White wrote: > > >Hi. I normally access the net through a gateway on the LAN. Occasionally > >I need to dialup myself (e.g. When I am not on the LAN or I am testing a > >different server) > >When I dialup if eth0 is still up with the default route set to point at > >the gateway then ppp0 can't set it's self as the default route and I > >can't access the internet through ppp0. > >If I bring eth0 down then ppp0 up then eth0 up it also fails[1] as it > >appears to be trying to get it's DNS from a non existent server on the > >LAN rather than the ISP.[2] > >I want it to be able to stay on the LAN while connected to the net so > >that I may also be able to share the connection with the LAN. > >This is similar to a problem I am having with a temporary gateway. So > >that it can act as a gateway I can't set the default route to the LAN > >gateway. > >Thanks > >Tim > > > >[1] > >Kernel IP routing table > >Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use > >Iface > >211.29.214.254 * 255.255.255.255 UH 0 0 0 > >ppp0 > >192.168.0.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 > >eth0 > >default dw 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 > >eth0 > >default 211.29.214.254 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 > >ppp0 > >Kernel IP routing table > >Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use > >Iface > >welax13.optusne * 255.255.255.255 UH 0 0 0 > >ppp0 > >default welax13.optusne 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 > >ppp0 > > > >[2] > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Fri Jul 23 09:03:02 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 09:03:02 +0800 Subject: [plug] Default Route, ppp, LAN In-Reply-To: <1090586471.1287.8.camel@linmedia> References: <1090584268.1288.6.camel@linmedia> <41005DF2.9090203@smlintl.com.au> <1090586471.1287.8.camel@linmedia> Message-ID: <410063C6.3000309@smlintl.com.au> I think under debian its under the etc and your ppp scripts. Can't remember I always have driver issues everytime I install debian so I just don't bother anymore. Sorry I can't be more help Tim White wrote: >Sorry. This is Debian 3.0r1 (Knoppix 3.4 hd-install) >Tim >On Thu, 2004-07-22 at 20:38, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > >>Create 2 separate connections and make the default gw as part of the >>connection. >> >>I run Fedora which is basically red-hat. So for me where the "script" >>is for my network connection I have eth0 and then another eth1 >>connection. Since I use a laptop my only problem is drivers. However >>that seemed to work for me. >> >>e.g. /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ >>Thats where the network scripts are on my system. >>The two files are: >>ifcfg-eth0 >>ifcfg-eth1 >>ifcfg-ppp0 >>ifcfg-lo >> >>I don't know what system so I can sorta help any further since some or >>most systems are different and similar in there own way. >> >>Tim White wrote: >> >> >> >>>Hi. I normally access the net through a gateway on the LAN. Occasionally >>>I need to dialup myself (e.g. When I am not on the LAN or I am testing a >>>different server) >>>When I dialup if eth0 is still up with the default route set to point at >>>the gateway then ppp0 can't set it's self as the default route and I >>>can't access the internet through ppp0. >>>If I bring eth0 down then ppp0 up then eth0 up it also fails[1] as it >>>appears to be trying to get it's DNS from a non existent server on the >>>LAN rather than the ISP.[2] >>>I want it to be able to stay on the LAN while connected to the net so >>>that I may also be able to share the connection with the LAN. >>>This is similar to a problem I am having with a temporary gateway. So >>>that it can act as a gateway I can't set the default route to the LAN >>>gateway. >>>Thanks >>>Tim >>> >>>[1] >>>Kernel IP routing table >>>Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use >>>Iface >>>211.29.214.254 * 255.255.255.255 UH 0 0 0 >>>ppp0 >>>192.168.0.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 >>>eth0 >>>default dw 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 >>>eth0 >>>default 211.29.214.254 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 >>>ppp0 >>>Kernel IP routing table >>>Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use >>>Iface >>>welax13.optusne * 255.255.255.255 UH 0 0 0 >>>ppp0 >>>default welax13.optusne 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 >>>ppp0 >>> >>>[2] >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >>>http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >>>Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >>http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >>Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Fri Jul 23 09:07:25 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 09:07:25 +0800 Subject: [plug] Newbie Install of Debain "woody" In-Reply-To: <41005EFC.6898.14DAFC0@localhost> References: <20040722151433.9511478D7@spark.plug.linux.org.au> <41005EFC.6898.14DAFC0@localhost> Message-ID: <20040723010725.GI25731@patrick.wattle.id.au> Arie Hol wrote: > apt-setup would not accept the above settings - played around a bit and edited > /etc/apt/sources.list which now looks like this : > > > deb file:/mnt/setup/ dists/woody/main/binary-i386/ > deb file:/mnt/setup/ dists/woody/contrib/binary-i386/ A better way to achieve exactly the same thing is with the one line: deb file:/mnt/setup woody main contrib You might want to put non-free on the end of the line too -- but you'd probably have to use an HTTP or FTP mirror site because the CDs don't include non-free. e.g. deb http://ftp.it.net.au/debian woody non-free > > Then run update-modutils. > update-modutils not on my machine (Ooops, I got the name wrong, should be update-modules.) Cameron. From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Fri Jul 23 09:08:04 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 09:08:04 +0800 Subject: [plug] Default Route, ppp, LAN In-Reply-To: <1090586471.1287.8.camel@linmedia> References: <1090584268.1288.6.camel@linmedia> <41005DF2.9090203@smlintl.com.au> <1090586471.1287.8.camel@linmedia> Message-ID: <20040723010804.GJ25731@patrick.wattle.id.au> Tim White wrote: > Sorry. This is Debian 3.0r1 (Knoppix 3.4 hd-install) "man interfaces" describes Debian's equivalent. Cameron. From weirdo at tigris.org Fri Jul 23 21:48:46 2004 From: weirdo at tigris.org (Tim White) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 09:48:46 -0400 Subject: [plug] LoginMatrix Linux Binary Challenge Message-ID: <1090590526.1287.16.camel@linmedia> Has any one done this? (www.loginmatrix.com and its down the left hand side) The first one asks you "Can you make me show the code ??" which appears to be impossible (does any one out there know how to extract the code from a binary file? It appears to have no debugging as well) Tim From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Fri Jul 23 11:10:33 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 11:10:33 +0800 Subject: [plug] LoginMatrix Linux Binary Challenge In-Reply-To: <1090590526.1287.16.camel@linmedia> References: <1090590526.1287.16.camel@linmedia> Message-ID: <410081A9.3060801@smlintl.com.au> Just had a look at it. I think the point of the challenge is just that a challenge. I'm sure there is a way to reverse engineer code if that is part of the challenge. Marc Tim White wrote: >Has any one done this? (www.loginmatrix.com and its down the left hand >side) >The first one asks you "Can you make me show the code ??" which appears >to be impossible (does any one out there know how to extract the code >from a binary file? It appears to have no debugging as well) >Tim > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > From sboak at westnet.com.au Fri Jul 23 11:52:13 2004 From: sboak at westnet.com.au (Steve Boak) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 11:52:13 +0800 Subject: [plug] ssl, certificates, authotities etc Message-ID: <200407231152.13321.sboak@westnet.com.au> My brain is full :-) Can anyone point me to human readable documentation on how to set up my own ssl certificates and how to get them signed? I have googled and read lots, but I am now more confused about the whole thing than when I started. Steve -- VOIP-Phone - Free World Dialup number 454566 - Via 128k ISDN "Most men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and continue on as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Fri Jul 23 12:06:32 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 12:06:32 +0800 Subject: [plug] ethereal Message-ID: <41008EC8.2030200@smlintl.com.au> I'm just messing around with stuff on my fc computer and I've come across ethereal. Now I know its a packet monitoring program can someone please explain what the purpose apart from looking at packets its used for. Thanks Marc From ryan at is.as.geeky.as Fri Jul 23 12:10:21 2004 From: ryan at is.as.geeky.as (Ryan) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 12:10:21 +0800 Subject: [plug] dd progress patches Message-ID: <1090555820.1676.14.camel@vaio> Hi Folks, I know this has been discussed many times before, but I'm having troubles applying the various dd progress patches I've found around the traps. I was specifically interesting in one Leon posted long ago that I found with google: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-fileutils/2003-08/msg00001.html I know how to patch kernel source etc, but can't get this one to work, have tried various version of fileutils etc. with no luck. Can anyone point me in the right direction? I just want to patch the standard Debian Woody dd from fileutils 4.10 - libc6 2.2.5. Is there an 'official' source for these progress patches or anything a bit friendlier than stuff pasted into mailing lists? Alternatively, are there are binary packages available anywhere with some kind of progress patch applied? Thanks, Ryan From zombie at penguincare.com.au Fri Jul 23 12:12:15 2004 From: zombie at penguincare.com.au (Matt Kemner) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 12:12:15 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] ssl, certificates, authotities etc In-Reply-To: <200407231152.13321.sboak@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Jul 2004, quoth Steve Boak: > Can anyone point me to human readable documentation on how to set up my own > ssl certificates and how to get them signed? I have googled and read lots, > but I am now more confused about the whole thing than when I started. There's usually great documentation at the SSL cert "registries" eg: http://www.instantssl.com/ssl-certificate-support/csr_generation/ssl-certificate-mod_ssl.html?currency=USD®ion=Australasia&country=AU Regards, - Matt From Adrian at Diskworld.com.au Fri Jul 23 12:12:22 2004 From: Adrian at Diskworld.com.au (Adrian Woodley) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 12:12:22 +0800 Subject: [plug] ssl, certificates, authotities etc In-Reply-To: <200407231152.13321.sboak@westnet.com.au> References: <200407231152.13321.sboak@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <41009026.1030606@Diskworld.com.au> G'Day Steve, This is a pretty good article, although aimed at courier imap/pop, the steps for creating a Certificate Authority are valid. I used another source as well, but I can't remember what it was. http://milliwaysconsulting.net/support/systems/courier-ssl.html You'll need sign.sh from libapache-mod-ssl. Adrian Steve Boak wrote: >My brain is full :-) > >Can anyone point me to human readable documentation on how to set up my own >ssl certificates and how to get them signed? I have googled and read lots, >but I am now more confused about the whole thing than when I started. > >Steve > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 256 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From tcleary2 at csc.com.au Fri Jul 23 12:28:19 2004 From: tcleary2 at csc.com.au (tcleary2 at csc.com.au) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 12:28:19 +0800 Subject: [plug] ethereal Message-ID: Marc, You said: >Now I know its a packet monitoring program can someone >please explain what the purpose apart from looking at packets its used for. You need something more? ;-) ethereal is one of the best troubleshooting tools you can get because it does things like permitting you to follow particular conversations from a captured datastream by selective use of filtering/masking. This is especially useful when some nasty person attacks you, because you can reconstruct what the bounder did, if you can get a full packet dump in a transportable format ( i.e. pcap format ) I've found it very useful when investigating "malicious activity" of various sorts, backing up IDS alerts. It is pleasant to disabuse people of the notion that "In Cyberspace no one can see your crime". Regards, tom. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tom Cleary - Security Architect CSC Perth "In IT, acceptable solutions depend upon humans - Computers don't negotiate." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in delivery. NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to bind CSC to any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit written agreement or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail for such purpose. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Fri Jul 23 13:01:26 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 13:01:26 +0800 Subject: [plug] ssl, certificates, authotities etc In-Reply-To: <200407231152.13321.sboak@westnet.com.au> References: <200407231152.13321.sboak@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <1090558886.6841.11.camel@albert.localnet> On Fri, 2004-07-23 at 11:52, Steve Boak wrote: > My brain is full :-) > > Can anyone point me to human readable documentation on how to set up my own > ssl certificates and how to get them signed? I have googled and read lots, > but I am now more confused about the whole thing than when I started. Are you looking to set up a private certificate authority that can sign other certificates, or are you just looking to create a certificate request and key you can send off to a CA to have signed? If the latter, any CA's website should have the required info. If you're looking to set up a private CA, then I share your pain regarding documentation. It all turns out to be reasonably simple to do, but the documentation I found was all written with the assumption that you already understood OpenSSL and the major aspects of certificates. Unfortunately, I don't remember the details of how I set up my CA cert well enough to be comfortable trying to explain - I'd probably get it wrong and confuse you even more. A private CA is useful for all sorts of things. I use mine for creating server certificates for your internal services on the LAN so I can use SSL. I also create client certificates for my users so I can have more strict control over remote access to mail and the intranet web server (neither of which will even _talk_ to a remote user unless they have a valid client cert). -- Craig Ringer From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Fri Jul 23 13:13:04 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 13:13:04 +0800 Subject: [plug] ssl, certificates, authotities etc In-Reply-To: <200407231152.13321.sboak@westnet.com.au> References: <200407231152.13321.sboak@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <1090558886.6841.11.camel@albert.localnet> On Fri, 2004-07-23 at 11:52, Steve Boak wrote: > My brain is full :-) > > Can anyone point me to human readable documentation on how to set up my own > ssl certificates and how to get them signed? I have googled and read lots, > but I am now more confused about the whole thing than when I started. Are you looking to set up a private certificate authority that can sign other certificates, or are you just looking to create a certificate request and key you can send off to a CA to have signed? If the latter, any CA's website should have the required info. If you're looking to set up a private CA, then I share your pain regarding documentation. It all turns out to be reasonably simple to do, but the documentation I found was all written with the assumption that you already understood OpenSSL and the major aspects of certificates. Unfortunately, I don't remember the details of how I set up my CA cert well enough to be comfortable trying to explain - I'd probably get it wrong and confuse you even more. A private CA is useful for all sorts of things. I use mine for creating server certificates for your internal services on the LAN so I can use SSL. I also create client certificates for my users so I can have more strict control over remote access to mail and the intranet web server (neither of which will even _talk_ to a remote user unless they have a valid client cert). -- Craig Ringer From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Fri Jul 23 13:13:31 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 13:13:31 +0800 Subject: [plug] ethereal In-Reply-To: <41008EC8.2030200@smlintl.com.au> References: <41008EC8.2030200@smlintl.com.au> Message-ID: <1090559584.7358.8.camel@albert.localnet> On Fri, 2004-07-23 at 12:06, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > I'm just messing around with stuff on my fc computer and I've come > across ethereal. Now I know its a packet monitoring program can someone > please explain what the purpose apart from looking at packets its used for. Well, it's used for network troubleshooting, program testing, protocol reverse engineering, network security analysis and network intrusion monitoring (as mentioned by Marc) among other things. It's handy for all these things because it's so flexible - it can display and analyze traffic in real time or from a stored capture file, it can filter traffic based on an incredibly flexible ruleset, and it can track relationships between packets in traffic flows. Ethereal can make it possible to pick out one connection in amongst a 100MBit/s traffic stream, then reconstruct that connection's traffic into a human-readable text display of the data transmitted, plus a delay graph showing how long the gaps between each packet were. It's great, and it's saved my sanity several times when trying to debug weird network problems. When combined with a good switch that can dump all traffic down one designated monitoring port (ideally a gigabit port), Ethereal is just incredible for tracking down odd network problems. Ethereal is a great tool to be familiar with, and I'd advise you to play with it and learn about it if you plan to work with networks in the future. -- Craig Ringer From brad at wasp.net.au Fri Jul 23 13:11:47 2004 From: brad at wasp.net.au (Brad Campbell) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 09:11:47 +0400 Subject: [plug] Fwd: Server boot problem ! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41009E13.8040309@wasp.net.au> Shayne O'Neill wrote: > Perhaps its worth finding a resource we can point these kids at if its the > same question over and over? > /usr/src/linux I have to admit, it's also nice to have a virtual machine to run kernels under while doing development. It shortens the crash and burn cycle greatly. Doing iPAQ kernel work is a pain. Compile, rsync kernel to machine, reboot machine, oops machine, attempt to capture oops on serial console - fail miserably, put more printk's in kernel, lather, rinse, repeat. Brad From billk at iinet.net.au Fri Jul 23 13:32:16 2004 From: billk at iinet.net.au (Bill Kenworthy) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 13:32:16 +0800 Subject: [plug] ethereal In-Reply-To: <1090559584.7358.8.camel@albert.localnet> References: <41008EC8.2030200@smlintl.com.au> <1090559584.7358.8.camel@albert.localnet> Message-ID: <1090560735.8302.10.camel@cbbcbitl303c.murdoch.edu.au> Also check out etherape - its a "live" view of whats happening. BillK On Fri, 2004-07-23 at 13:13, Craig Ringer wrote: > On Fri, 2004-07-23 at 12:06, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > I'm just messing around with stuff on my fc computer and I've come > > across ethereal. Now I know its a packet monitoring program can someone > > please explain what the purpose apart from looking at packets its used for. > > Well, it's used for network troubleshooting, program testing, protocol From ldlist at westnet.com.au Fri Jul 23 13:40:41 2004 From: ldlist at westnet.com.au (Luke Dudney) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 13:40:41 +0800 Subject: [plug] ssl, certificates, authotities etc In-Reply-To: <200407231152.13321.sboak@westnet.com.au> References: <200407231152.13321.sboak@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <4100A4D9.3060804@westnet.com.au> Steve Boak wrote: >My brain is full :-) > >Can anyone point me to human readable documentation on how to set up my own >ssl certificates and how to get them signed? I have googled and read lots, >but I am now more confused about the whole thing than when I started. > >Steve > > > The openssl distribution comes bundled with a wrapper to "openssl ca" called CA.pl (or just "CA" in the redhat distribution). On my FC2 desktop this is located in /usr/share/ssl/misc/CA It's not a huge improvement over using "openssl ca", but it does provide an automated and fairly easy follow-the-steps frontend to creating and managing your own CA, generating certificate requests, creating self-signed certificates, signing CSRs etc. It might also be helpful in making apparent what you didn't know you were after in the first place. See the ca(1) man page for some further help. Cheers Luke From simpware at yahoo.com Fri Jul 23 14:24:00 2004 From: simpware at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Andrew=20Furey?=) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 16:24:00 +1000 (EST) Subject: [plug] Weird network fallover? Message-ID: <20040723062400.45320.qmail@web40704.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, I have a rackmount server running woody, with a LiteOn (onboard, I suspect) tulip-driver network card. This machine also has a VMware install of Win98, which we use for the various Windows requirements (which are few, fortunately). The VMware is set up in "host-only" mode, so the Win98 has its own IP address on the same subnet as the server (as opposed to being masqueraded through it). We access the Win98 using VNC. This has worked fine for years (although they were reinstalled a few months ago), but over the last few weeks we've been having an increasingly-more-frequent (and more-annoying) problem. At seemingly random times (but possibly related to actual usage, since we don't notice it otherwise) the network will suddenly stop. The interface is still up with correct settings, the lights are on, mii-tool reports a connection, but nothing can ping through to/from either IP. There's no error messages of any sort when it happens, it just dies. The weird thing is, I can simply restart the networking system (/etc/init.d/networking restart) and it will be fine (without even reloading the driver). Until next time, which these days might be <30s... Has anyone seen anything remotely like this? Any suggestions (apart from a watchdog daemon / cronjob)? Thanks, Andrew ===== Linux supports the notion of a command line or a shell for the same reason that only children read books with only pictures in them. Language, be it English or something else, is the only tool flexible enough to accomplish a sufficiently broad range of tasks. -- Bill Garrett Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Fri Jul 23 14:39:19 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 14:39:19 +0800 Subject: [plug] Weird network fallover? In-Reply-To: <20040723062400.45320.qmail@web40704.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040723062400.45320.qmail@web40704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4100B297.20901@smlintl.com.au> It might be completely unrelated but I had a similar incident and it just happened that all that was happening was that the win box didn't like dhcpd for some reason. So all I did was make it static and it worked. Just a suggestion. Andrew Furey wrote: >Hi all, > >I have a rackmount server running woody, with a LiteOn >(onboard, I suspect) tulip-driver network card. This >machine also has a VMware install of Win98, which we >use for the various Windows requirements (which are >few, fortunately). > >The VMware is set up in "host-only" mode, so the Win98 >has its own IP address on the same subnet as the >server (as opposed to being masqueraded through it). >We access the Win98 using VNC. > >This has worked fine for years (although they were >reinstalled a few months ago), but over the last few >weeks we've been having an increasingly-more-frequent >(and more-annoying) problem. At seemingly random times >(but possibly related to actual usage, since we don't >notice it otherwise) the network will suddenly stop. > >The interface is still up with correct settings, the >lights are on, mii-tool reports a connection, but >nothing can ping through to/from either IP. There's no >error messages of any sort when it happens, it just >dies. > >The weird thing is, I can simply restart the >networking system (/etc/init.d/networking restart) and >it will be fine (without even reloading the driver). >Until next time, which these days might be <30s... > >Has anyone seen anything remotely like this? Any >suggestions (apart from a watchdog daemon / cronjob)? > >Thanks, >Andrew > >===== >Linux supports the notion of a command line or a shell for the same >reason that only children read books with only pictures in them. >Language, be it English or something else, is the only tool flexible >enough to accomplish a sufficiently broad range of tasks. > -- Bill Garrett > >Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. >http://au.movies.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > From ryan at is.as.geeky.as Fri Jul 23 14:50:34 2004 From: ryan at is.as.geeky.as (Ryan) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 14:50:34 +0800 Subject: [plug] Weird network fallover? In-Reply-To: <4100B297.20901@smlintl.com.au> References: <20040723062400.45320.qmail@web40704.mail.yahoo.com> <4100B297.20901@smlintl.com.au> Message-ID: <1090565433.1675.22.camel@vaio> On Fri, 2004-07-23 at 14:39, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > It might be completely unrelated but I had a similar incident and it > just happened that all that was happening was that the win box didn't > like dhcpd for some reason. So all I did was make it static and it worked. ditto. I i think it was dhclient I've had problems with in the past. It daemonises and will repeatedly request IPs at seemingly random times - sometimes even if you have no interfaces designated as dynamic. If you've manually assigned an IP to the interface, it will wipe it out with DHCP information when it feels like it. Be worth checking if dhclient or variants are lurking in the process list unnecessarily maybe? Ryan From caston at arach.net.au Fri Jul 23 16:04:20 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (caston at arach.net.au) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 16:04:20 +0800 Subject: [plug] Data recovery with Gentoo system rescue cd Message-ID: <1090569860.4100c684dab58@mailmanager.arach.net.au> Hello, I have here a 80gb ide Seagate 11a (I think) drive that fails the Seagate SMART check. The drive was the one from my main system and I tried booting up this afternoon to see the tune2fs/fsck was not liking it which alerted me to the problem. Of course I hadn't backed up my home parition in about 6 weeks! I'm sure sure if there is an issue with these drives but I was using a hardcano 11 and felt that the drive temp was usually above what it should be. I watched it climb to 35degrees at the installfest. I've now just put the drive in another machine and copying the contents to an identical drive that I bought from soon after finding the problem. I'm using the gentoo systemlive cd and cp -r to do it. I will probably then copy that again to a SATA drive on another machine once I have set it up again with Mandrake 10. A few questions: Would it be worth using dd to dump the entire drive contents to the new drive or should I rebuild from scatch? What is the dd command and block size I should use? thanks, Chris Caston From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Fri Jul 23 16:22:18 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 16:22:18 +0800 Subject: [plug] Data recovery with Gentoo system rescue cd In-Reply-To: <1090569860.4100c684dab58@mailmanager.arach.net.au> References: <1090569860.4100c684dab58@mailmanager.arach.net.au> Message-ID: <1090570938.7358.46.camel@albert.localnet> On Fri, 2004-07-23 at 16:04, caston at arach.net.au wrote: > I'm sure sure if there is an issue with these drives but I was using a > hardcano 11 and felt that the drive temp was usually above what it should be. > I watched it climb to 35degrees at the installfest. 35 degrees seems pretty normal to me. That's where my RAID disks in my server at work sit normally, but they can climb to more than 45 degrees under heavy load. My home desktop's disks tend to be more like 25 degrees, but then they're very well cooled and doing very little. > A few questions: > > Would it be worth using dd to dump the entire drive contents to the new drive > or should I rebuild from scatch? dd will get you a more exact copy (down to the same inode numbers etc), but chances are that doesn't matter. When migrating data off failing disks I tend to use dd where possible because it's fast and easy. If dd cannot read some sectors and fails, it is probably safer to make a new filesystem on the target and copy all the files instead ('cpio -p' is good for this) rather than using dd with conv=noerror. > What is the dd command and block size I should use? I find that bs=1M (or more) massively improves the transfer rate. Otherwise, a normal dd if=/dev/source_device of=/dev/target_device bs=1M should do nicely. I would recommend building a new partition table on the new disk and doing partition-by-partition copies rather than trying to copy the entire disk, as I've seen some odd results with full disk copies in the past. You will need to reinstall the boot loader on the new disk, too. Of course, with this sort of thing there is no one "right" way, and in the end so long as you get your data off safely it's good enough. -- Craig Ringer From caston at arach.net.au Fri Jul 23 16:45:39 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (caston at arach.net.au) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 16:45:39 +0800 Subject: [plug] Data recovery with Gentoo system rescue cd In-Reply-To: <1090570938.7358.46.camel@albert.localnet> References: <1090569860.4100c684dab58@mailmanager.arach.net.au> <1090570938.7358.46.camel@albert.localnet> Message-ID: <1090572339.4100d033cfcdf@mailmanager.arach.net.au> Quoting Craig Ringer : > On Fri, 2004-07-23 at 16:04, caston at arach.net.au wrote: > > > I'm sure sure if there is an issue with these drives but I was using a > > hardcano 11 and felt that the drive temp was usually above what it should > be. > > I watched it climb to 35degrees at the installfest. > > 35 degrees seems pretty normal to me. That's where my RAID disks in my > server at work sit normally, but they can climb to more than 45 degrees > under heavy load. My home desktop's disks tend to be more like 25 > degrees, but then they're very well cooled and doing very little. > > > A few questions: > > > > Would it be worth using dd to dump the entire drive contents to the new > drive > > or should I rebuild from scatch? > > dd will get you a more exact copy (down to the same inode numbers etc), > but chances are that doesn't matter. When migrating data off failing > disks I tend to use dd where possible because it's fast and easy. > > If dd cannot read some sectors and fails, it is probably safer to make a > new filesystem on the target and copy all the files instead ('cpio -p' > is good for this) rather than using dd with conv=noerror. > thanks Craig, Right now I am doing cp -r * The source is ext3 and the target is ext2. I was in such a rush that I didn't adding journaling to the new disks file system. What is the difference between this and cpio -p ? I believe the last time I used cpio was unpacking oracle disk images and I didn't know what it was then and probably still don't now. > > What is the dd command and block size I should use? > > I find that bs=1M (or more) massively improves the transfer rate. > Otherwise, a normal > > dd if=/dev/source_device of=/dev/target_device bs=1M > Thanks. I'm feeling that I may rebuild from scratch anyway just incase. Does anyone here know if KDE or anything else major is currently broken in sid? > should do nicely. I would recommend building a new partition table on > the new disk and doing partition-by-partition copies rather than trying > to copy the entire disk, as I've seen some odd results with full disk > copies in the past. > > You will need to reinstall the boot loader on the new disk, too. > > Of course, with this sort of thing there is no one "right" way, and in > the end so long as you get your data off safely it's good enough. > > -- > Craig Ringer > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From caston at arach.net.au Fri Jul 23 16:55:46 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (caston at arach.net.au) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 16:55:46 +0800 Subject: HDD cooling was Re: [plug] Data recovery with Gentoo system rescue cd In-Reply-To: <1090570938.7358.46.camel@albert.localnet> References: <1090569860.4100c684dab58@mailmanager.arach.net.au> <1090570938.7358.46.camel@albert.localnet> Message-ID: <1090572946.4100d292a4922@mailmanager.arach.net.au> Quoting Craig Ringer : > On Fri, 2004-07-23 at 16:04, caston at arach.net.au wrote: > > > I'm sure sure if there is an issue with these drives but I was using a > > hardcano 11 and felt that the drive temp was usually above what it should > be. > > I watched it climb to 35degrees at the installfest. > > 35 degrees seems pretty normal to me. That's where my RAID disks in my > server at work sit normally, but they can climb to more than 45 degrees > under heavy load. My home desktop's disks tend to be more like 25 > degrees, but then they're very well cooled and doing very little. > OK. Well I don't think my disks do that much either but I prefer them to sit in 26 degrees. HDs without a cooler will usually sit on about 37-40degrees in my experience. I also see that is is heavily dependent on the weather. I find the HDs are always MUCH cooler in an airconditioned office compared to a noisy factory room. I always buy Seagates because they have temp sensors that work with hddtemp. I usually prefer hardcanos but where cost is an issue I use the $10 hddfans that screw over the top of the drives curcuit board with 5 1/3" drive bay brackets if requied. I have a strict policy of providing hddfans with all the drives that I sell and usually strongly recommend installing one on a customers machine is they don't have one. I don't get exposed to RAID but I hear that one hot drive in a RAID array can cause serious issues. From jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au Fri Jul 23 17:45:51 2004 From: jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au (Jon Miller) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 17:45:51 +0800 Subject: [plug] zombie state Message-ID: On a Debian server an application will go into a zombie state and lock-up. Is there a reason for this? or better still is there a way to unlock it automatically? The application is a virus scanning software that receives mail on port 25, scans the mail and sends it to another server on another servers port 25. Thanks Jon L. Miller, MCNE, CNS, ASE Director/Sr Systems Consultant MMT Networks Pty Ltd http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: TEXT.htm URL: From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Fri Jul 23 16:59:56 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 16:59:56 +0800 Subject: [plug] Data recovery with Gentoo system rescue cd In-Reply-To: <1090572339.4100d033cfcdf@mailmanager.arach.net.au> References: <1090569860.4100c684dab58@mailmanager.arach.net.au> <1090570938.7358.46.camel@albert.localnet> <1090572339.4100d033cfcdf@mailmanager.arach.net.au> Message-ID: <1090573196.7358.54.camel@albert.localnet> On Fri, 2004-07-23 at 16:45, caston at arach.net.au wrote: > Right now I am doing cp -r * Hmm. If you're copying things like /usr, /var, or /dev you'll want to use cp -aR instead of cp -r. 'cp -r' doesn't deal well with some special files, particularly device nodes and fifos. If you use 'cp -r' your copy may stall partway through when it finds a fifo, and it may not preserve all file attributes, symlinks, etc. > The source is ext3 and the target is ext2. I was in such a rush that I didn't > adding journaling to the new disks file system. > > What is the difference between this and cpio -p ? cpio is a (rather old) archival tool in much the same style as tar. It has a handy passthrough mode where it can read a list of files from stdin and for each file copy it to a target directory. I've found 'cpio -p' to be faster for many small files than 'cp -aR' is. You should get the same effect as cpio by using (cd /source && tar cvf - . )|(cd /destination && tar xvf -) which I probably should've suggested instead, I'm just used to cpio myself so it tends to come to mind first. -- Craig Ringer From jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au Fri Jul 23 18:06:08 2004 From: jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au (Jon Miller) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 18:06:08 +0800 Subject: [plug] ethereal Message-ID: well stated!! Jon Jon L. Miller, MCNE, CNS, ASE Director/Sr Systems Consultant MMT Networks Pty Ltd http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby >>> craig at postnewspapers.com.au 1:13:31 pm 23/07/2004 >>> On Fri, 2004-07-23 at 12:06, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > I'm just messing around with stuff on my fc computer and I've come > across ethereal. Now I know its a packet monitoring program can someone > please explain what the purpose apart from looking at packets its used for. Well, it's used for network troubleshooting, program testing, protocol reverse engineering, network security analysis and network intrusion monitoring (as mentioned by Marc) among other things. It's handy for all these things because it's so flexible - it can display and analyze traffic in real time or from a stored capture file, it can filter traffic based on an incredibly flexible ruleset, and it can track relationships between packets in traffic flows. Ethereal can make it possible to pick out one connection in amongst a 100MBit/s traffic stream, then reconstruct that connection's traffic into a human-readable text display of the data transmitted, plus a delay graph showing how long the gaps between each packet were. It's great, and it's saved my sanity several times when trying to debug weird network problems. When combined with a good switch that can dump all traffic down one designated monitoring port (ideally a gigabit port), Ethereal is just incredible for tracking down odd network problems. Ethereal is a great tool to be familiar with, and I'd advise you to play with it and learn about it if you plan to work with networks in the future. -- Craig Ringer _______________________________________________ PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au Fri Jul 23 18:10:55 2004 From: jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au (Jon Miller) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 18:10:55 +0800 Subject: [plug] ethereal Message-ID: It's every network engineers best friend for troubleshooting "why the network is slow". I've used it to track down workstations that had viruses on them. Users abusing network policies with steaming video and music. So yes it's a very good tool (and it's free too). I had prior to this a $18,000 tool to do the same except it did explain everything in plain English, however when the $$$$ are coming out of your pocket you tend to look for a good replacement and this fit the bill perfectly (even using tethereal on the Linux side is worth using). Jon Jon L. Miller, MCNE, CNS, ASE Director/Sr Systems Consultant MMT Networks Pty Ltd http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby >>> tcleary2 at csc.com.au 12:28:19 pm 23/07/2004 >>> Marc, You said: >Now I know its a packet monitoring program can someone >please explain what the purpose apart from looking at packets its used for. You need something more? ;-) ethereal is one of the best troubleshooting tools you can get because it does things like permitting you to follow particular conversations from a captured datastream by selective use of filtering/masking. This is especially useful when some nasty person attacks you, because you can reconstruct what the bounder did, if you can get a full packet dump in a transportable format ( i.e. pcap format ) I've found it very useful when investigating "malicious activity" of various sorts, backing up IDS alerts. It is pleasant to disabuse people of the notion that "In Cyberspace no one can see your crime". Regards, tom. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tom Cleary - Security Architect CSC Perth "In IT, acceptable solutions depend upon humans - Computers don't negotiate." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in delivery. NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to bind CSC to any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit written agreement or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail for such purpose. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From onno at itmaze.com.au Fri Jul 23 19:04:01 2004 From: onno at itmaze.com.au (Onno Benschop) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 21:04:01 +1000 Subject: [plug] ethereal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1090580641.7218.80.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> Is it just me, or does anyone else get annoyed when people send HTML attachments to the list? Onno Benschop Connected via Optus B3 at S27?52'30" - E151?16'25" (Millmerran, QLD) -- ()/)/)() ..ASCII for Onno.. |>>? ..EBCDIC for Onno.. --- -. -. --- ..Morse for Onno.. Proudly supported by Skipper Trucks, Highway1, Concept AV, Sony Central, Dalcon ITmaze - ABN: 56 178 057 063 - ph: 04 1219 8888 - onno at itmaze dot com dot au From alan.graham at infonetsystems.com.au Fri Jul 23 19:07:20 2004 From: alan.graham at infonetsystems.com.au (Alan Graham) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 19:07:20 +0800 Subject: [plug] zombie state In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1090580840.2903.8.camel@bart.graham.fdns.net> A zombie isn't an application locked up. It's a child process that has finished, whose parent hasn't cleaned it up properly. Unix processes start other processes by executing a 'fork'. The 'fork' copies the process, so that there are two identical processes except for the process id. The copy is termed the child process, the original is the parent. Typically, the code after the fork looks at the PID to see if this is the parent or the child If it's the parent, it 'wait's for the child to end. If it doesn't 'wait', when the child ends it zombies. The idea is that eventually the parent will execute a 'wait', which will allow the zombies to end. It sounds like the virus scanner is forking a child process to handle each incoming mail. Once each child ends, it zombies. The parent process continues to monitor port 25 while the child is examining the mail to ensure that each mail coming in is handled in a timely fashion, no matter how long each preceding mail is taking to be scanned. The parent should be cleaning up its own child processes periodically. Zombies don't normally cause problems. They should have released their resources before they ended, so it's just an entry on the process table. Are they causing a problem? HTH Alan On Fri, 2004-07-23 at 17:45, Jon Miller wrote: > On a Debian server an application will go into a zombie state and lock-up. Is there a reason for this? or better still is there a way to unlock it automatically? The application is a virus scanning software that receives mail on port 25, scans the mail and sends it to another server on another servers port 25. > > > Thanks > > Jon L. Miller, MCNE, CNS, ASE > Director/Sr Systems Consultant > MMT Networks Pty Ltd > http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au > > "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure > is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -- Alan Graham -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au Fri Jul 23 19:10:23 2004 From: harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au (Harry) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 19:10:23 +0800 Subject: [plug] ethereal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040723191023.5274f82c.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 18:10:55 +0800 "Jon Miller" wrote: > Users abusing network policies with steaming video and music. Do you mean steamy or was that a Freudian slip, Jon ? ;-) All the best Harry -- Are you a computer angel? http://www.computerangels.org.au/ From garbuck at westnet.com.au Fri Jul 23 19:18:48 2004 From: garbuck at westnet.com.au (Garry) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 19:18:48 +0800 Subject: [plug] ethereal In-Reply-To: <20040723191023.5274f82c.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> References: <20040723191023.5274f82c.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> Message-ID: <4100F418.4050603@westnet.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 | Do you mean steamy or was that a Freudian slip, Jon ? Look out. Harry is in form.. 8^)== Garry - -- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBAPQYvdH9DANniC8RAt8QAJ93q9fIv1kgVU+YWJPkr+SdUxUypQCdG83+ UJwWqRG93gCoOIgYkCDrtps= =nSe+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sboak at westnet.com.au Fri Jul 23 20:34:11 2004 From: sboak at westnet.com.au (Steve Boak) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 20:34:11 +0800 Subject: [plug] CDMA 1x for broadband blackspots Message-ID: <200407232034.11720.sboak@westnet.com.au> Hi you lucky ADSL users... I had heard CDMA 1x suggested for rural areas where physical lines are not available or not up to a standard that wired broadband is a viable option. A a large part of my local area fits into that description. Wireless connection at 144Kb/sec wherever there is CDMA mobile coverage? Sounds great! After a little research, it seems only if you have very deep pockets, and live in Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane metropolitan areas :-) From http://www.telstra.com.au/mobile/business/plans/cdma1x.htm Usage Monthly data Monthly fee Charge/10KB Speed Low 1MB $10 10? 72 kbps Medium 4MB $30 10? 72 kbps High 15MB $85 10? 144 kbps No, I didn't type the above charge wrongly - it does say $85 for 15MB, and 10c per additional 10KB! (but you can stay online for 24 hours for each 22c connection fee. If the connection doesn't drop out.) How does that look to those of you used to bumping up against GB limits? Working out the cost of your average daily use at the above charges is left as an exercise for the interested reader :-) Steve P.S. Apologies if my tabs don't line up with yours... -- VOIP-Phone - Free World Dialup number 454566 - Via 128k ISDN "Most men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and continue on as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill From arie99 at ozemail.com.au Fri Jul 23 20:44:51 2004 From: arie99 at ozemail.com.au (Arie Hol) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 20:44:51 +0800 Subject: [plug] Newbie Install of Debain "woody" In-Reply-To: <20040723010725.GI25731@patrick.wattle.id.au> References: <41005EFC.6898.14DAFC0@localhost> Message-ID: <410178C3.13413.176480@localhost> For those that are curious about the version that I have installed - it is Debian - 3.0r2 "woody". Thanks for all the advice, and thanks again to Cameron. Since my last problem, I have moved on and installed ssh and I am now able to access my Linux box from my Win98 boxes using Putty and Winscp. It seemed just too easy, doing it the Debian way as compared to RH 7.3. I have achieved more in 48 hours with Debian (and Cameron's advice) than I ever did with RH in six months. Now it's time be be bold again and try to install more essential features on my new Linux box, so I guess I will be back soon with more problems and seeking more help. >--------------------------------------------------------------< For the concert of life, nobody has a program. >--------------------------------------------------------------< From jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au Fri Jul 23 21:37:17 2004 From: jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au (Jon Miller) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 21:37:17 +0800 Subject: [plug] ethereal Message-ID: oops I meant streaming, although the video was steamy.... Jon Jon L. Miller, MCNE, CNS, ASE Director/Sr Systems Consultant MMT Networks Pty Ltd http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby >>> harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au 7:10:23 pm 23/07/2004 >>> On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 18:10:55 +0800 "Jon Miller" wrote: > Users abusing network policies with steaming video and music. Do you mean steamy or was that a Freudian slip, Jon ? ;-) All the best Harry -- Are you a computer angel? http://www.computerangels.org.au/ _______________________________________________ PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au Fri Jul 23 21:42:33 2004 From: jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au (Jon Miller) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 21:42:33 +0800 Subject: [plug] zombie state Message-ID: What happens is the scanner when loaded (or reloaded) has about 12 threads (I believe this is the correct term) to handle mail as it comes in. If more is needed more threads are given to a set maximum number. What I can see when this happens is there are a lot of threads or instances of the threads listed when doing a ps -A. I have to issue a killall -9 and scanner name to remove the entries. Then I can restart the program. This doesn't happen all the time, but lately I've been seeing this on site where there is a heavy load of e-mail. Jon Jon L. Miller, MCNE, CNS, ASE Director/Sr Systems Consultant MMT Networks Pty Ltd http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby >>> alan.graham at infonetsystems.com.au 7:07:20 pm 23/07/2004 >>> A zombie isn't an application locked up. It's a child process that has finished, whose parent hasn't cleaned it up properly. Unix processes start other processes by executing a 'fork'. The 'fork' copies the process, so that there are two identical processes except for the process id. The copy is termed the child process, the original is the parent. Typically, the code after the fork looks at the PID to see if this is the parent or the child If it's the parent, it 'wait's for the child to end. If it doesn't 'wait', when the child ends it zombies. The idea is that eventually the parent will execute a 'wait', which will allow the zombies to end. It sounds like the virus scanner is forking a child process to handle each incoming mail. Once each child ends, it zombies. The parent process continues to monitor port 25 while the child is examining the mail to ensure that each mail coming in is handled in a timely fashion, no matter how long each preceding mail is taking to be scanned. The parent should be cleaning up its own child processes periodically. Zombies don't normally cause problems. They should have released their resources before they ended, so it's just an entry on the process table. Are they causing a problem? HTH Alan On Fri, 2004-07-23 at 17:45, Jon Miller wrote: > On a Debian server an application will go into a zombie state and lock-up. Is there a reason for this? or better still is there a way to unlock it automatically? The application is a virus scanning software that receives mail on port 25, scans the mail and sends it to another server on another servers port 25. > > > Thanks > > Jon L. Miller, MCNE, CNS, ASE > Director/Sr Systems Consultant > MMT Networks Pty Ltd > http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au > > "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure > is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -- Alan Graham -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au Fri Jul 23 21:44:04 2004 From: jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au (Jon Miller) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 21:44:04 +0800 Subject: [plug] ethereal Message-ID: Onno, sorry about the HTML, seems my e-mail wasn't set to plain text when it should have been. Jon Jon L. Miller, MCNE, CNS, ASE Director/Sr Systems Consultant MMT Networks Pty Ltd http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby >>> onno at itmaze.com.au 7:04:01 pm 23/07/2004 >>> Is it just me, or does anyone else get annoyed when people send HTML attachments to the list? Onno Benschop Connected via Optus B3 at S27?52'30" - E151?16'25" (Millmerran, QLD) -- ()/)/)() ..ASCII for Onno.. >> ..EBCDIC for Onno.. --- -. -. --- ..Morse for Onno.. Proudly supported by Skipper Trucks, Highway1, Concept AV, Sony Central, Dalcon ITmaze - ABN: 56 178 057 063 - ph: 04 1219 8888 - onno at itmaze dot com dot au _______________________________________________ PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au From bernard at blackham.com.au Fri Jul 23 20:58:52 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 20:58:52 +0800 Subject: [plug] LoginMatrix Linux Binary Challenge In-Reply-To: <410081A9.3060801@smlintl.com.au> References: <1090590526.1287.16.camel@linmedia> <410081A9.3060801@smlintl.com.au> Message-ID: <20040723125851.GN2239@blackham.com.au> On Fri, Jul 23, 2004 at 11:10:33AM +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Just had a look at it. I think the point of the challenge is just that > a challenge. > > I'm sure there is a way to reverse engineer code if that is part of the > challenge. gdb is a good starting point. Learning how to drive it is an invaluable tool (along with knowing a little x86 assembly). I'm not sure of how they /want/ you to go about the challenge, but gdb and objdump was all I needed. strace, ltrace, xtrace, and other things may come in handy also. There was a talk at LCA2004 about reverse engineering, IIRC - should be on the CD-ROM/DVD that will be out soon with any luck! Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From sboak at westnet.com.au Fri Jul 23 21:08:09 2004 From: sboak at westnet.com.au (Steve Boak) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 21:08:09 +0800 Subject: [plug] ethereal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200407232108.09847.sboak@westnet.com.au> On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 09:44 pm, Jon Miller wrote: > Onno, sorry about the HTML, seems my e-mail wasn't set to plain text when > it should have been. > > Jon > And your clock is wrong - it's not 9:44 pm yet :-) Steve -- VOIP-Phone - Free World Dialup number 454566 - Via 128k ISDN "Most men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and continue on as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill From sboak at westnet.com.au Fri Jul 23 21:20:51 2004 From: sboak at westnet.com.au (Steve Boak) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 21:20:51 +0800 Subject: [plug] ethereal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200407232120.51234.sboak@westnet.com.au> On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 09:44 pm, Jon Miller wrote: > Onno, sorry about the HTML, seems my e-mail wasn't set to plain text when > it should have been. > > Jon Actually, looking at the headers on your last email, it looks like your gateway clock is wrong - maybe that's why your time is wrong if you are synchronizing with it? Steve -- VOIP-Phone - Free World Dialup number 454566 - Via 128k ISDN "Most men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and continue on as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill From bernard at blackham.com.au Fri Jul 23 21:42:00 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 21:42:00 +0800 Subject: [plug] dd progress patches In-Reply-To: <1090555820.1676.14.camel@vaio> References: <1090555820.1676.14.camel@vaio> Message-ID: <20040723134159.GO2239@blackham.com.au> On Fri, Jul 23, 2004 at 12:10:21PM +0800, Ryan wrote: > I know this has been discussed many times before, but I'm having > troubles applying the various dd progress patches I've found around the > traps. > > Is there an 'official' source for these progress patches or anything a > bit friendlier than stuff pasted into mailing lists? Unless upstream takes it, not really. Last I read, they believed that the SIGUSR1 method was adequate? (kill -SIGUSR1 `pidof dd` to get statistics from dd so far). Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From plug at jensz.id.au Fri Jul 23 23:01:08 2004 From: plug at jensz.id.au (Ben Jensz) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 23:01:08 +0800 Subject: [plug] [OT] CDMA 1x for broadband blackspots In-Reply-To: <200407232034.11720.sboak@westnet.com.au> References: <200407232034.11720.sboak@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <41012834.3070200@jensz.id.au> Burstable to 144kbit... in practice it seems to be around the 80-90kbit mark... but it fluctuates a bit. I've seen it in use... and its rather interesting. Those plans suck though... but there are other plans you can get onto, but they still aren't really competitive with ADSL prices. Basically all it was, was with a PCMCIA card in a laptop and some software from Telstra to start the connection... of course it'd be Windows only. I think its still aimed at mobile laptop users... so sort of competing in the wireless net access space, not really the broadband space. It is better than wireless in that the fella that was showing it off, said that he had actually had it working on the internet with signal so poor that it wouldn't hold a phone call, but the cdma1x service was working perfectly still. Telstra are still upgrading their cdma towers to be cdma1x capable, and they are doing it to all of their cdma towers. For instance I think all of the towers up here in the Kimberley have been done... but Telstra are holding off on really announcing it and publicising it until its all done. I think they were supposed to be aiming at around September this year for a proper product launch. So you may see some better plans for it come out around that time as well. / Ben Steve Boak wrote: >Hi you lucky ADSL users... > >I had heard CDMA 1x suggested for rural areas where physical lines are not >available or not up to a standard that wired broadband is a viable option. A >a large part of my local area fits into that description. Wireless connection >at 144Kb/sec wherever there is CDMA mobile coverage? Sounds great! > >After a little research, it seems only if you have very deep pockets, and live >in Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane metropolitan areas :-) > >From http://www.telstra.com.au/mobile/business/plans/cdma1x.htm > >Usage Monthly data Monthly fee Charge/10KB Speed >Low 1MB $10 10? 72 kbps >Medium 4MB $30 10? 72 kbps >High 15MB $85 10? 144 kbps > >No, I didn't type the above charge wrongly - it does say $85 for 15MB, and 10c >per additional 10KB! (but you can stay online for 24 hours for each 22c >connection fee. If the connection doesn't drop out.) How does that look to >those of you used to bumping up against GB limits? > >Working out the cost of your average daily use at the above charges is left as >an exercise for the interested reader :-) > >Steve > >P.S. Apologies if my tabs don't line up with yours... > > > From parisse at iprimus.com.au Sat Jul 24 09:24:13 2004 From: parisse at iprimus.com.au (paul) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 09:24:13 +0800 Subject: [plug] LoginMatrix Linux Binary Challenge In-Reply-To: <20040723125851.GN2239@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: <41004EAE00052216@> (added by postmaster@iprimus.com.au) How do I access this challenge? -----Original Message----- From: plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au [mailto:plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au] On Behalf Of Bernard Blackham Sent: Friday, 23 July 2004 8:59 PM To: plug at plug.linux.org.au Subject: Re: [plug] LoginMatrix Linux Binary Challenge On Fri, Jul 23, 2004 at 11:10:33AM +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Just had a look at it. I think the point of the challenge is just that > a challenge. > > I'm sure there is a way to reverse engineer code if that is part of the > challenge. gdb is a good starting point. Learning how to drive it is an invaluable tool (along with knowing a little x86 assembly). I'm not sure of how they /want/ you to go about the challenge, but gdb and objdump was all I needed. strace, ltrace, xtrace, and other things may come in handy also. There was a talk at LCA2004 about reverse engineering, IIRC - should be on the CD-ROM/DVD that will be out soon with any luck! Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham _______________________________________________ PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.721 / Virus Database: 477 - Release Date: 16/07/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.721 / Virus Database: 477 - Release Date: 16/07/2004 From bernard at blackham.com.au Sat Jul 24 09:42:44 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 09:42:44 +0800 Subject: [plug] LoginMatrix Linux Binary Challenge In-Reply-To: <41004EAE00052216@> References: <20040723125851.GN2239@blackham.com.au> <41004EAE00052216@> Message-ID: <20040724014243.GX2239@blackham.com.au> On Sat, Jul 24, 2004 at 09:24:13AM +0800, paul wrote: > How do I access this challenge? On Fri, Jul 23, 2004 at 09:48:46AM -0400, Tim White wrote: > Has any one done this? (www.loginmatrix.com and its down the left > hand side) -- Bernard Blackham From mbailey at arach.net.au Sat Jul 24 11:30:21 2004 From: mbailey at arach.net.au (Mark Bailey) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 11:30:21 +0800 Subject: [plug] LoginMatrix Linux Binary Challenge In-Reply-To: <20040724014243.GX2239@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: <20040724033029.2027981C2@spark.plug.linux.org.au> This might be really dumb question but I am pretty new to all this stuff so I will not be surprised if someone flames the crap out of me. Can someone please advise if the following is possible. I have scoured a heap of docmentation and cannot find any reference to it. It is in relation to VirtualHosts in Apache. I am trying to point a VirtualHost DocumentRoot to a directory on another machine on the network. ie. Apache is running on 192.168.1.1. I want the DocumentRoot for one of the domains to be on 192.168.1.4. I can find no reference showing a DocumentRoot to somewhere other than a directory on the host machine. Thanx in advance. Cheers, Mark Bailey Perth, Western Australia "The world is moving so fast that there are days when the person who says it can't be done is interrupted by the person who it doing it." - Anonymous --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.718 / Virus Database: 474 - Release Date: 9/07/2004 From mbailey at arach.net.au Sat Jul 24 11:34:50 2004 From: mbailey at arach.net.au (Mark Bailey) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 11:34:50 +0800 Subject: [plug] VirtualHosts Problem In-Reply-To: <20040724033029.2027981C2@spark.plug.linux.org.au> Message-ID: <20040724033457.6702681C2@spark.plug.linux.org.au> Sorry...forgot to change subject. Cheers, Mark Bailey Perth, Western Australia Condoning sloppy spelling is guache -----Original Message----- From: plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au [mailto:plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au] On Behalf Of Mark Bailey Sent: Saturday, 24 July 2004 11:30 AM To: plug at plug.linux.org.au Subject: RE: [plug] LoginMatrix Linux Binary Challenge This might be really dumb question but I am pretty new to all this stuff so I will not be surprised if someone flames the crap out of me. Can someone please advise if the following is possible. I have scoured a heap of docmentation and cannot find any reference to it. It is in relation to VirtualHosts in Apache. I am trying to point a VirtualHost DocumentRoot to a directory on another machine on the network. ie. Apache is running on 192.168.1.1. I want the DocumentRoot for one of the domains to be on 192.168.1.4. I can find no reference showing a DocumentRoot to somewhere other than a directory on the host machine. Thanx in advance. Cheers, Mark Bailey Perth, Western Australia "The world is moving so fast that there are days when the person who says it can't be done is interrupted by the person who it doing it." - Anonymous --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.718 / Virus Database: 474 - Release Date: 9/07/2004 _______________________________________________ PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.718 / Virus Database: 474 - Release Date: 9/07/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.718 / Virus Database: 474 - Release Date: 9/07/2004 From garbuck at westnet.com.au Sat Jul 24 11:38:15 2004 From: garbuck at westnet.com.au (Garry) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 11:38:15 +0800 Subject: [plug] LoginMatrix Linux Binary Challenge In-Reply-To: <20040724033029.2027981C2@spark.plug.linux.org.au> References: <20040724033029.2027981C2@spark.plug.linux.org.au> Message-ID: <4101D9A7.9060101@westnet.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Mark Bailey wrote: | This might be really dumb question but I am pretty new to | all this stuff so I will not be surprised if someone flames the | crap out of me. | | Can someone please advise if the following is possible. | I have scoured a heap of docmentation and cannot find any | reference to it. | | It is in relation to VirtualHosts in Apache. | | I am trying to point a VirtualHost DocumentRoot to a directory | on another machine on the network. | | ie. Apache is running on 192.168.1.1. I want the DocumentRoot for one | of the domains to be on 192.168.1.4. | | I can find no reference showing a DocumentRoot to somewhere other than | a directory on the host machine. | I suspect you'd have to have it mounted as a NFS mount.. Never tried this though. HTH Garry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBAdmnvdH9DANniC8RAnKbAKCs3CN8PrifpfAD7fblYj5Ppvh8rQCdHCUb /U4wpFj+QbFSoZyb2sc25c8= =GOCj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From bernard at blackham.com.au Sat Jul 24 11:38:23 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 11:38:23 +0800 Subject: [plug] VirtualHosts Problem In-Reply-To: <20040724033457.6702681C2@spark.plug.linux.org.au> References: <20040724033029.2027981C2@spark.plug.linux.org.au> <20040724033457.6702681C2@spark.plug.linux.org.au> Message-ID: <20040724033823.GA2239@blackham.com.au> On Sat, Jul 24, 2004 at 11:34:50AM +0800, Mark Bailey wrote: > I am trying to point a VirtualHost DocumentRoot to a directory on another > machine on the network. > > ie. Apache is running on 192.168.1.1. I want the DocumentRoot for one of the > domains to be on 192.168.1.4. > I can find no reference showing a DocumentRoot to somewhere other than a > directory on the host machine. That's because it's not possible :) You could: (a) mount the directory from the other machine over NFS and then set the document root accordingly; or (b) install apache on the other machine and read up on the documentation for mod_proxy and ProxyPass. HTH, Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From mbailey at arach.net.au Sat Jul 24 11:45:07 2004 From: mbailey at arach.net.au (Mark Bailey) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 11:45:07 +0800 Subject: [plug] VirtualHosts Problem In-Reply-To: <20040724033823.GA2239@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: <20040724034514.483FB81C2@spark.plug.linux.org.au> Thanx Bernard and Garry. I'll go have a look at that. Cheers, Mark Bailey Perth, Western Australia WANTED: Meaningful overnight relationship. -----Original Message----- From: plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au [mailto:plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au] On Behalf Of Bernard Blackham Sent: Saturday, 24 July 2004 11:38 AM To: plug at plug.linux.org.au Subject: Re: [plug] VirtualHosts Problem On Sat, Jul 24, 2004 at 11:34:50AM +0800, Mark Bailey wrote: > I am trying to point a VirtualHost DocumentRoot to a directory on > another machine on the network. > > ie. Apache is running on 192.168.1.1. I want the DocumentRoot for one > of the domains to be on 192.168.1.4. > I can find no reference showing a DocumentRoot to somewhere other than > a directory on the host machine. That's because it's not possible :) You could: (a) mount the directory from the other machine over NFS and then set the document root accordingly; or (b) install apache on the other machine and read up on the documentation for mod_proxy and ProxyPass. HTH, Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham _______________________________________________ PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.718 / Virus Database: 474 - Release Date: 9/07/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.718 / Virus Database: 474 - Release Date: 9/07/2004 From fostware at westnet.com.au Sat Jul 24 12:18:09 2004 From: fostware at westnet.com.au (Craig Foster) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 12:18:09 +0800 Subject: [plug] VirtualHosts Problem In-Reply-To: <20040724033457.6702681C2@spark.plug.linux.org.au> Message-ID: <20040724041831.300F3806B@spark.plug.linux.org.au> > -----Original Message----- > From: plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au > [mailto:plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au] On Behalf Of Mark Bailey > Sent: Saturday, 24 July 2004 11:35 AM > To: plug at plug.linux.org.au > Subject: [plug] VirtualHosts Problem > > This might be really dumb question but I am pretty new to all > this stuff so I will not be surprised if someone flames the > crap out of me. > > Can someone please advise if the following is possible. > I have scoured a heap of docmentation and cannot find any > reference to it. > > It is in relation to VirtualHosts in Apache. > > I am trying to point a VirtualHost DocumentRoot to a > directory on another machine on the network. > > ie. Apache is running on 192.168.1.1. I want the DocumentRoot > for one of the domains to be on 192.168.1.4. > > I can find no reference showing a DocumentRoot to somewhere > other than a directory on the host machine. ProxyPass and mod_proxy are your friends. I use them on various sites to section off Windows IIS Servers from the outside world, eg /resources/qa-docs/ or Exchange Web Access > Thanx in advance. > > Cheers, > Mark Bailey > Perth, Western Australia Regards, CraigF From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Sat Jul 24 20:03:25 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 20:03:25 +0800 Subject: [plug] LoginMatrix Linux Binary Challenge In-Reply-To: <4101D9A7.9060101@westnet.com.au> References: <20040724033029.2027981C2@spark.plug.linux.org.au> <4101D9A7.9060101@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <1090670605.6847.2.camel@albert.localnet> On Sat, 2004-07-24 at 11:38, Garry wrote: > Mark Bailey wrote: > | I am trying to point a VirtualHost DocumentRoot to a directory > | on another machine on the network. > I suspect you'd have to have it mounted as a NFS mount.. Never tried > this though. It works fine for me with NFS and smbfs - kernel 2.6.7 connecting to SCO OpenServer 5.0.5 and Windows NT 4.0, using Apache 2.0.4something. I did have to modify Apache so that it wouldn't try to use sendfile(), because it didn't recover gracefully from failure and those filesystems don't support it. IIRC this wasn't an issue under kernel 2.4 due to lack of sendfile() support. -- Craig Ringer From Rob.Dunne at CSIRO.AU Sat Jul 24 22:12:10 2004 From: Rob.Dunne at CSIRO.AU (Rob Dunne) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 00:12:10 +1000 Subject: [plug] what port is xfs running on? Message-ID: <16642.28218.646273.222254@pride.nsw.cmis.CSIRO.AU> HI list, how do I tell what port xfs is running on? $ ps ax|grep xfs 3299 ? S 0:04 [xfs] doesnt help me a lot. I am following the instructions on http://www.ibiblio.org/Linux/HOWTO/Font-HOWTO/xfonts.html#AEN223 to add truetype fonts so that MathML works in firefox. bye rob -- Rob Dunne Fax: +61 2 9325 3200 Tel: +61 2 9325 3263 CSIRO Mathematical and Information Sciences +61 2 9325 3100 Locked Bag 17, North Ryde, New South Wales, Australia, 1670 http://www.bioinformatics.csiro.au Email: Rob.Dunne at csiro.au Java has certainly revolutionized marketing and litigation. From r.steicke at bom.gov.au Sat Jul 24 22:38:40 2004 From: r.steicke at bom.gov.au (Russell Steicke) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 22:38:40 +0800 Subject: [plug] what port is xfs running on? In-Reply-To: <16642.28218.646273.222254@pride.nsw.cmis.CSIRO.AU> References: <16642.28218.646273.222254@pride.nsw.cmis.CSIRO.AU> Message-ID: <20040724143840.GI3619@postoffice.wa.bom.gov.au> On Sun, Jul 25, 2004 at 12:12:10AM +1000, Rob Dunne wrote: > > > > HI list, > how do I tell what port xfs is running on? > > $ ps ax|grep xfs > 3299 ? S 0:04 [xfs] Well, it should be 7100, if it's listening for external connections: $ grep xfs /etc/services font-service 7100/tcp xfs # X Font Service font-service 7100/udp xfs $ But you could try this: # lsof | grep xfs xfs 532 root cwd DIR 8,5 4096 2 / xfs 532 root rtd DIR 8,5 4096 2 / xfs 532 root txt REG 8,5 456696 570170 /usr/X11R6/bin/xfs xfs 532 root 0u CHR 1,3 539213 /dev/null xfs 532 root 1u CHR 1,3 539213 /dev/null xfs 532 root 2u CHR 1,3 539213 /dev/null xfs 532 root 3u unix 0xdbb0d040 1704 /tmp/.font-unix/fs7100 xfs 532 root 4u unix 0xdbb0d400 1710 socket xfs 532 root 5u unix 0xdd8b2820 106328157 /tmp/.font-unix/fs7100 # Mine's not listening for tcp connections, so there are no "TCP *:xfs" entries there, but yours may be different. There are probably niftier ways to use lsof (or netstat) but this works for me. -- Russell Steicke -- Fortune says: October 12, the Discovery. It was wonderful to find America, but it would have been more wonderful to miss it. -- Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar" From speedster at westnet.com.au Sat Jul 24 22:41:02 2004 From: speedster at westnet.com.au (Dean Holland) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 22:41:02 +0800 Subject: [plug] what port is xfs running on? In-Reply-To: <16642.28218.646273.222254@pride.nsw.cmis.CSIRO.AU> References: <16642.28218.646273.222254@pride.nsw.cmis.CSIRO.AU> Message-ID: <410274FE.7010506@westnet.com.au> Hi Rob, Use lsof -i to show open INET "files". speedster at sook:~$ sudo lsof -i -P | grep xfs xfs 409 root 3u IPv4 1406 TCP *:7100 (LISTEN) Dean Rob Dunne wrote: > > > HI list, > how do I tell what port xfs is running on? > > $ ps ax|grep xfs > 3299 ? S 0:04 [xfs] > > > doesnt help me a lot. > > I am following the instructions on > http://www.ibiblio.org/Linux/HOWTO/Font-HOWTO/xfonts.html#AEN223 > > to add truetype fonts so that MathML works in firefox. > > bye > rob > From Rob.Dunne at CSIRO.AU Sat Jul 24 22:55:10 2004 From: Rob.Dunne at CSIRO.AU (Rob Dunne) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 00:55:10 +1000 Subject: [plug] what port is xfs running on? In-Reply-To: <410274FE.7010506@westnet.com.au> References: <16642.28218.646273.222254@pride.nsw.cmis.CSIRO.AU> <410274FE.7010506@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <16642.30798.883742.945183@pride.nsw.cmis.CSIRO.AU> thanks Dean and Russell, I now see that I have a problem. $ /usr/sbin/lsof -i -P | grep xfs reveals nothing -- only ssh connections however $ grep xfs /etc/services xfs 7100/tcp # X font server $ tail -1 /etc/X11/fs/config no-listen = tcp could this be the problem? What should I change it too? bye rob Dean Holland writes: > Hi Rob, > > Use lsof -i to show open INET "files". > > speedster at sook:~$ sudo lsof -i -P | grep xfs > xfs 409 root 3u IPv4 1406 TCP *:7100 (LISTEN) > > Dean > > Rob Dunne wrote: > > > > > > HI list, > > how do I tell what port xfs is running on? > > > > $ ps ax|grep xfs > > 3299 ? S 0:04 [xfs] > > > > > > doesnt help me a lot. > > > > I am following the instructions on > > http://www.ibiblio.org/Linux/HOWTO/Font-HOWTO/xfonts.html#AEN223 > > > > to add truetype fonts so that MathML works in firefox. > > > > bye > > rob > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au From speedster at westnet.com.au Sat Jul 24 23:09:30 2004 From: speedster at westnet.com.au (Dean Holland) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 23:09:30 +0800 Subject: [plug] what port is xfs running on? In-Reply-To: <16642.30798.883742.945183@pride.nsw.cmis.CSIRO.AU> References: <16642.28218.646273.222254@pride.nsw.cmis.CSIRO.AU> <410274FE.7010506@westnet.com.au> <16642.30798.883742.945183@pride.nsw.cmis.CSIRO.AU> Message-ID: <41027BAA.8050808@westnet.com.au> Rob, You should run the lsof command as root (if possible), when run as a normal user it will only show open files for processes that you own. If you can't run it as root then I suggest netstat -an | grep "LISTEN " The normal port for XFS as Russell mentioned is TCP/7100 Dean Rob Dunne wrote: > thanks Dean and Russell, > > I now see that I have a problem. > > > > $ /usr/sbin/lsof -i -P | grep xfs > reveals nothing -- only ssh connections > > however > > $ grep xfs /etc/services > xfs 7100/tcp # X font server > > > > $ tail -1 /etc/X11/fs/config > no-listen = tcp > > could this be the problem? What should I change it too? > > bye > rob > > > Dean Holland writes: > > Hi Rob, > > > > Use lsof -i to show open INET "files". > > > > speedster at sook:~$ sudo lsof -i -P | grep xfs > > xfs 409 root 3u IPv4 1406 TCP *:7100 (LISTEN) > > > > Dean > > > > Rob Dunne wrote: > > > > > > > > > HI list, > > > how do I tell what port xfs is running on? > > > > > > $ ps ax|grep xfs > > > 3299 ? S 0:04 [xfs] > > > > > > > > > doesnt help me a lot. > > > > > > I am following the instructions on > > > http://www.ibiblio.org/Linux/HOWTO/Font-HOWTO/xfonts.html#AEN223 > > > > > > to add truetype fonts so that MathML works in firefox. > > > > > > bye > > > rob > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From r.steicke at bom.gov.au Sat Jul 24 23:12:03 2004 From: r.steicke at bom.gov.au (Russell Steicke) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 23:12:03 +0800 Subject: [plug] what port is xfs running on? In-Reply-To: <16642.30798.883742.945183@pride.nsw.cmis.CSIRO.AU> References: <16642.28218.646273.222254@pride.nsw.cmis.CSIRO.AU> <410274FE.7010506@westnet.com.au> <16642.30798.883742.945183@pride.nsw.cmis.CSIRO.AU> Message-ID: <20040724151203.GJ3619@postoffice.wa.bom.gov.au> On Sun, Jul 25, 2004 at 12:55:10AM +1000, Rob Dunne wrote: > > thanks Dean and Russell, > > I now see that I have a problem. > > > > $ /usr/sbin/lsof -i -P | grep xfs > reveals nothing -- only ssh connections > > however > > $ grep xfs /etc/services > xfs 7100/tcp # X font server > > > > $ tail -1 /etc/X11/fs/config > no-listen = tcp > > could this be the problem? What should I change it too? Unless you're setting up a font server for use by multiple machines on a network (and if you don't know you're doing that, then you're probably not) this is not a problem. Your local X server will be getting fonts by talking to the font server on its unix domain socket, or by reading fonts directly from the file system. Have you done the "xset -q" thing from that HOWTO, to find out where your X server expects the fonts to be? -- Russell Steicke -- Fortune says: There's nothing worse for your business than extra Santa Clauses smoking in the men's room. -- W. Bossert From Rob.Dunne at CSIRO.AU Sat Jul 24 23:30:22 2004 From: Rob.Dunne at CSIRO.AU (Rob Dunne) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 01:30:22 +1000 Subject: [plug] what port is xfs running on? In-Reply-To: <20040724151203.GJ3619@postoffice.wa.bom.gov.au> References: <16642.28218.646273.222254@pride.nsw.cmis.CSIRO.AU> <410274FE.7010506@westnet.com.au> <16642.30798.883742.945183@pride.nsw.cmis.CSIRO.AU> <20040724151203.GJ3619@postoffice.wa.bom.gov.au> Message-ID: <16642.32910.176250.907609@pride.nsw.cmis.CSIRO.AU> HI guys, as root [root at plastic]# tail -1 /etc/X11/fs/config no-listen = tcp [root at plastic]# /etc/rc.d/init.d/xfs restart Restarting xfs: Shutting down xfs: [ OK ] Starting xfs: [ OK ] [root at plastic]# /usr/sbin/lsof -i -P | grep xfs # nothing [root at plastic]# vi /etc/X11/fs/config [root at plastic]# tail -1 /etc/X11/fs/config #no-listen = tcp [root at plastic]# /etc/rc.d/init.d/xfs restart Restarting xfs: Shutting down xfs: [ OK ] Starting xfs: [ OK ] [root at plastic]# /usr/sbin/lsof -i -P | grep xfs xfs 6620 xfs 3u IPv4 211994 TCP *:7100 (LISTEN) [root at plastic]# xset -q Font Path: /home/robd/.kde/share/fonts/override,unix/:7100,/home/robd/.kde/share/fonts I am not setting up a network font server. http://kb.mozillazine.org/index.phtml?title=Gecko:_FAQs_:_Linux_XFT_and_MathML gives instructions of how to add fonts for firefox if " --enable-xft " appears in about:buildconfig what that didnt seem to work properly (missing characters in the display) I had a look at http://www.ibiblio.org/Linux/HOWTO/Font-HOWTO/xfonts.html#AEN223 which seems to expect xfs to be listening at a port bye rob Russell Steicke writes: > On Sun, Jul 25, 2004 at 12:55:10AM +1000, Rob Dunne wrote: > > > > thanks Dean and Russell, > > > > I now see that I have a problem. > > > > > > > > $ /usr/sbin/lsof -i -P | grep xfs > > reveals nothing -- only ssh connections > > > > however > > > > $ grep xfs /etc/services > > xfs 7100/tcp # X font server > > > > > > > > $ tail -1 /etc/X11/fs/config > > no-listen = tcp > > > > could this be the problem? What should I change it too? > > Unless you're setting up a font server for use by multiple machines on a > network (and if you don't know you're doing that, then you're probably > not) this is not a problem. Your local X server will be getting fonts > by talking to the font server on its unix domain socket, or by reading > fonts directly from the file system. > > Have you done the "xset -q" thing from that HOWTO, to find out where > your X server expects the fonts to be? > > > > -- > Russell Steicke > > -- Fortune says: > There's nothing worse for your business than extra Santa Clauses > smoking in the men's room. > -- W. Bossert From fostware at westnet.com.au Sun Jul 25 13:52:05 2004 From: fostware at westnet.com.au (Craig Foster) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 13:52:05 +0800 Subject: [plug] what port is xfs running on? In-Reply-To: <41027BAA.8050808@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <20040725055235.58ACD7940@spark.plug.linux.org.au> > -----Original Message----- > From: plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au > [mailto:plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au] On Behalf Of Dean Holland > Sent: Saturday, 24 July 2004 11:10 PM > To: plug at plug.linux.org.au > Subject: Re: [plug] what port is xfs running on? > > Rob, > > You should run the lsof command as root (if possible), when > run as a normal user it will only show open files for > processes that you own. > > If you can't run it as root then I suggest netstat -an | grep > "LISTEN " Umm, or you could just use netstat -plnt There should be a nnnnn/xfsd on the rightmost column. > The normal port for XFS as Russell mentioned is TCP/7100 > > Dean > > Rob Dunne wrote: > Regards, CraigF. From simpware at yahoo.com Sun Jul 25 14:57:38 2004 From: simpware at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Andrew=20Furey?=) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:57:38 +1000 (EST) Subject: [plug] Weird network fallover? In-Reply-To: <1090565433.1675.22.camel@vaio> Message-ID: <20040725065738.19851.qmail@web40708.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ryan wrote: > On Fri, 2004-07-23 at 14:39, Marc Wiriadisastra > wrote: > > It might be completely unrelated but I had a > > similar incident and it just happened that all > > that was happening was that the win box didn't > > like dhcpd for some reason. So all I did was make > > it static and it worked. > > ditto. I i think it was dhclient I've had problems > with in the past. It daemonises and will > repeatedly request IPs at seemingly random times - > sometimes even if you have no interfaces designated > as dynamic. If you've manually assigned an IP to > the interface, it will wipe it out with DHCP > information when it feels like it. Be worth > checking if dhclient or variants are lurking in the > process list unnecessarily maybe? Ah, silly me. Checking on on the Linux box didn't reveal any processes (dhcp-client is installed but not used), but the Windows box showed that the NIC had been "installed" twice; one with the correct static IP info, and the other dynamic. Bleh... Thanks Ryan, Marc. Andrew ===== Linux supports the notion of a command line or a shell for the same reason that only children read books with only pictures in them. Language, be it English or something else, is the only tool flexible enough to accomplish a sufficiently broad range of tasks. -- Bill Garrett Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com From bernard at blackham.com.au Mon Jul 26 00:16:24 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 00:16:24 +0800 Subject: [plug] Fw: mandrake 10.0 Message-ID: <20040725161624.GQ2245@blackham.com.au> Another query from off-list. Same state this time though :) ----- Forwarded message from peter ----- Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 22:00:03 +0800 From: peter To: committee at plug.org.au Subject: [plug-ctte] mandrake 10.0 gudday from the cold south,,,,,,installed mandrake 10.0 from dvd from english magazine Linux format. It went to my secondary hdd of 13G.I cannot go on the net. On installation there is a section for country and ISP provider. Australia is not listed. This I assume is my problem. Could you please inform me as to my next course of action, to surf with mandrake. Could you please answer in plain text, I'm new to linux.Do you have a postal address, to send my membership money to. Thank you. Regards pete. ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Bernard Blackham From bernard at blackham.com.au Mon Jul 26 00:21:58 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 00:21:58 +0800 Subject: [plug] ** July Workshop Notice ** Message-ID: <20040725162158.GR2245@blackham.com.au> Just a reminder that the monthly PLUG workshop will be happening tonight (Monday 26th July). If your computer is in need of some hands-on help to configure or install Linux, it's the best opportunity to get some assistance. It's also an ideal time to just meet and chat Linux with other PLUGgers! Venue: University Computer Club (UCC), Upper level of Cameron Hall, above the Tavern. University of WA. For detailed directions, see http://ucc.asn.au/aboutucc/contact.ucc When: 7:30pm, Monday 22nd March 2004 Visitors and friends are most welcome. Regards, Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au Mon Jul 26 11:04:07 2004 From: harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au (Harry) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 11:04:07 +0800 Subject: [plug] Lite HTTP server Message-ID: <20040726110407.5d7a1dff.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> Dear PLUGers To Cameron's amusement, I'm going to make a 20GB debian mirror bootable so I can pop the drive stand-alone in any system :-) *think installfest-to-go* I don't need Apache's size so can someone advise the lightest http and ftp servers that I can use to keep the base install partition as small as ? Sorry, I haven't even looked to see if sarge base has some already. Hastily installing now .. I'll drop on rsync and then be good to go for an uber-slurp of debian goodness from the largish pipes at UCC tonight. Thanks Harry -- Are you a computer angel? http://www.computerangels.org.au/ From bernard at blackham.com.au Mon Jul 26 11:37:21 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 11:37:21 +0800 Subject: [plug] Fw: Perl Training in Perth, members discount Message-ID: <20040726033721.GB6090@blackham.com.au> For any interested parties, these guys are running Perl training courses in Perth, and offering a discount to PLUG members. -- Forwarded message from Jacinta Richardson -- Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 11:58:54 +1000 From: Jacinta Richardson Subject: Re: Perl Training in Perth, members discount G'day PLUG members, This is a brief reminder that our Early Bird Special runs out in 10 business days. This special allows you (or your organisation) to receive one free Perl book (of your choice) per person per course booking. However, you must book and pay for the courses before Aug 6th! Books are listed at http://www.perltraining.com.au/books.html If you or your collegues are thinking of joining us on our training courses on the following dates: Introduction to Perl - Tuesday 31st August - Wednesday 1st September Intermediate Perl - Thursday 2nd September - Friday 3rd September then now is the time to be getting your bookings in. This special is in addition to the PLUG discount of $50 per person per course, and in addition to the group booking of (another) $50 per person per course for bookings of 3 people or more on the same course. To get the PLUG discount, mention PLUG as your referrer. To book places on these courses please visit: http://www.perltraining.com.au/bookings.html We look forward to having you on our courses. All the very best, Jacinta Richardson Training Coordinator -- ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ | Jacinta Richardson | `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) | Perl Training Australia | (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' | +61 3 9354 6001 | _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' | contact at perltraining.com.au | (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' | ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Bernard Blackham From bernard at blackham.com.au Mon Jul 26 11:44:11 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 11:44:11 +0800 Subject: [plug] Lite HTTP server In-Reply-To: <20040726110407.5d7a1dff.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> References: <20040726110407.5d7a1dff.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> Message-ID: <20040726034411.GD6090@blackham.com.au> On Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 11:04:07AM +0800, Harry wrote: > To Cameron's amusement, I'm going to make a 20GB debian mirror bootable so > I can pop the drive stand-alone in any system :-) *think installfest-to-go* Very cool idea :) > I don't need Apache's size so can someone advise the lightest http and > ftp servers that I can use to keep the base install partition as small > as ? boa is relatively light-weight, has a small memory footprint, and is blindingly fast for static content. > I'll drop on rsync and then be good to go for an uber-slurp of debian > goodness from the largish pipes at UCC tonight. We'll be ready for you :) Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From patrick at tehvand.com Mon Jul 26 11:52:07 2004 From: patrick at tehvand.com (Patrick Tehvand) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 11:52:07 +0800 Subject: [plug] Perl Question Message-ID: <41047FE7.9090605@tehvand.com> Hi all. I may be making things to complex for myself but is there a way to join two scalar values to give the name of a scalar? my brain says litteraly it should be: $ifvariable = $scalar1 . $scalar2; if ($"$ifvariable" eq blah) { I know above doesnt work. nether does adding a $ to the "$ifvariable" using . I hope this makes sense to you all as my brain just exploded from abstract thought. Patrick From bernard at blackham.com.au Mon Jul 26 12:06:44 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 12:06:44 +0800 Subject: [plug] Perl Question In-Reply-To: <41047FE7.9090605@tehvand.com> References: <41047FE7.9090605@tehvand.com> Message-ID: <20040726040644.GF6090@blackham.com.au> On Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 11:52:07AM +0800, Patrick Tehvand wrote: > I may be making things to complex for myself but is there a way to join > two scalar values to give the name of a scalar? > > my brain says litteraly it should be: > > $ifvariable = $scalar1 . $scalar2; > if ($"$ifvariable" eq blah) { > > I know above doesnt work. nether does adding a $ to the "$ifvariable" > using . I think you're probably looking for an eval block, eg: $a = 'foo'; $b = 'bar'; eval "\$$a$b = 'blah'"; print $foobar."\n"; HTH, Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From ryan at is.as.geeky.as Mon Jul 26 12:07:45 2004 From: ryan at is.as.geeky.as (Ryan) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 12:07:45 +0800 Subject: [plug] Perl Question In-Reply-To: <41047FE7.9090605@tehvand.com> References: <41047FE7.9090605@tehvand.com> Message-ID: <1090814865.1293.19.camel@vaio> On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 11:52, Patrick Tehvand wrote: > I may be making things to complex for myself but is there a way to join > two scalar values to give the name of a scalar? > > my brain says litteraly it should be: > > $ifvariable = $scalar1 . $scalar2; > if ($"$ifvariable" eq blah) { > > I know above doesnt work. nether does adding a $ to the "$ifvariable" > using . You want to 'construct' variable names from scalar values? $scalar1 = 'sca'; $scalar2 = 'lar3'; $scalar3 = 'blah'; $ifvariable = $scalar1 . $scalar2; if (${$ifvariable} eq 'blah') { print "scalar3 is blah\n"; } Is that what you mean? Ryan From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Mon Jul 26 12:11:13 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 12:11:13 +0800 Subject: [plug] Fw: Perl Training in Perth, members discount In-Reply-To: <20040726033721.GB6090@blackham.com.au> References: <20040726033721.GB6090@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: <41048461.9050507@smlintl.com.au> Sorta unrelated. Does anyone know whether there are places that offer a linux version of this. What I mean by linux isn't so much the getting around linux and things like that I think they are pretty quickly learnt I think its the programs. E.g. Samba, or Bash scripting or things associated like that that support the linux os server itself. Marc Bernard Blackham wrote: >For any interested parties, these guys are running Perl training >courses in Perth, and offering a discount to PLUG members. > >-- Forwarded message from Jacinta Richardson -- > >Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 11:58:54 +1000 >From: Jacinta Richardson >Subject: Re: Perl Training in Perth, members discount > >G'day PLUG members, > >This is a brief reminder that our Early Bird Special runs out in 10 >business days. This special allows you (or your organisation) to >receive one free Perl book (of your choice) per person per course >booking. However, you must book and pay for the courses before Aug 6th! > >Books are listed at http://www.perltraining.com.au/books.html > >If you or your collegues are thinking of joining us on our training >courses on the following dates: > >Introduction to Perl - Tuesday 31st August - Wednesday 1st September >Intermediate Perl - Thursday 2nd September - Friday 3rd September > >then now is the time to be getting your bookings in. > >This special is in addition to the PLUG discount of $50 per person per >course, and in addition to the group booking of (another) $50 per person >per course for bookings of 3 people or more on the same course. > >To get the PLUG discount, mention PLUG as your referrer. > >To book places on these courses please visit: > http://www.perltraining.com.au/bookings.html > >We look forward to having you on our courses. > >All the very best, > > Jacinta Richardson > Training Coordinator > > > From patrick at tehvand.com Mon Jul 26 12:18:08 2004 From: patrick at tehvand.com (Patrick Tehvand) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 12:18:08 +0800 Subject: [plug] Perl Question In-Reply-To: <1090814865.1293.19.camel@vaio> References: <41047FE7.9090605@tehvand.com> <1090814865.1293.19.camel@vaio> Message-ID: <41048600.3020008@tehvand.com> Ryan wrote: > On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 11:52, Patrick Tehvand wrote: > >>I may be making things to complex for myself but is there a way to join >>two scalar values to give the name of a scalar? >> >>my brain says litteraly it should be: >> >>$ifvariable = $scalar1 . $scalar2; >>if ($"$ifvariable" eq blah) { >> >>I know above doesnt work. nether does adding a $ to the "$ifvariable" >>using . > > > You want to 'construct' variable names from scalar values? > > $scalar1 = 'sca'; > $scalar2 = 'lar3'; > $scalar3 = 'blah'; > $ifvariable = $scalar1 . $scalar2; > if (${$ifvariable} eq 'blah') { print "scalar3 is blah\n"; } > > Is that what you mean? > > Ryan > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > Thanks that worked well. And thanks to Bernard for the reminder that TIMTOWTSAC. Patrick From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Mon Jul 26 12:23:04 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 12:23:04 +0800 Subject: [plug] Perl Question In-Reply-To: <20040726040644.GF6090@blackham.com.au> References: <41047FE7.9090605@tehvand.com> <20040726040644.GF6090@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: <1090815784.6765.11.camel@albert.localnet> On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 12:06, Bernard Blackham wrote: > I think you're probably looking for an eval block, eg: > > $a = 'foo'; > $b = 'bar'; > > eval "\$$a$b = 'blah'"; > > print $foobar."\n"; Is there any way to get a list of all defined variables as a hash in Perl? If so, you could do the equivalent of Python's globals()['varname'] lookup. Alternately, hopefully there will be a built in function to look up a variable value by variable name, somewhat similar to Python's Class.getattr() . I haven't used Perl much for a while, so sorry I can't be more helpful. I'm just trying to provide you with another direction for inquiry. I'd be somewhat surprised if the only way to do it is with an eval. -- Craig Ringer From senectus at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 12:37:35 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 12:37:35 +0800 Subject: [plug] Novell / IBM training Message-ID: For those of you that are interested this is DAMN good value.. http://www.novell.com/training/linux/workshop/ap_workshop.html We're about 10 people away from another class (I hear) being setup for maybe august.. so register your interest asap if you want to go.. Marcus -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From bernard at blackham.com.au Mon Jul 26 12:57:04 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 12:57:04 +0800 Subject: [plug] Perl Question In-Reply-To: <1090815784.6765.11.camel@albert.localnet> References: <41047FE7.9090605@tehvand.com> <20040726040644.GF6090@blackham.com.au> <1090815784.6765.11.camel@albert.localnet> Message-ID: <20040726045704.GG6090@blackham.com.au> On Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 12:23:04PM +0800, Craig Ringer wrote: > I haven't used Perl much for a while, so sorry I can't be more helpful. > I'm just trying to provide you with another direction for inquiry. > > I'd be somewhat surprised if the only way to do it is with an eval. That was just my way of skinning that cat. Ryan's method makes a lot more sense :) Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Mon Jul 26 13:19:48 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 13:19:48 +0800 Subject: [plug] Perl Question In-Reply-To: <20040726040644.GF6090@blackham.com.au> References: <41047FE7.9090605@tehvand.com> <20040726040644.GF6090@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: <1090815784.6765.11.camel@albert.localnet> On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 12:06, Bernard Blackham wrote: > I think you're probably looking for an eval block, eg: > > $a = 'foo'; > $b = 'bar'; > > eval "\$$a$b = 'blah'"; > > print $foobar."\n"; Is there any way to get a list of all defined variables as a hash in Perl? If so, you could do the equivalent of Python's globals()['varname'] lookup. Alternately, hopefully there will be a built in function to look up a variable value by variable name, somewhat similar to Python's Class.getattr() . I haven't used Perl much for a while, so sorry I can't be more helpful. I'm just trying to provide you with another direction for inquiry. I'd be somewhat surprised if the only way to do it is with an eval. -- Craig Ringer From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Mon Jul 26 13:19:51 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 13:19:51 +0800 Subject: [plug] Perl Question In-Reply-To: <20040726045704.GG6090@blackham.com.au> References: <41047FE7.9090605@tehvand.com> <20040726040644.GF6090@blackham.com.au> <1090815784.6765.11.camel@albert.localnet> <20040726045704.GG6090@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: <1090819188.8113.1.camel@albert.localnet> On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 12:57, Bernard Blackham wrote: > That was just my way of skinning that cat. Ryan's method makes a lot > more sense :) Yeah. I hadn't seen that post when I wrote mine, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered. It's pretty clear that I misunderstood something about Perl references when I was working with Perl, going by Ryan's post. Oh well. -- Craig Ringer From dsbrown at cyllene.uwa.edu.au Mon Jul 26 13:22:48 2004 From: dsbrown at cyllene.uwa.edu.au (Denis Brown) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 13:22:48 +0800 Subject: [plug] Novell / IBM training In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040726130358.03015b80@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> At 12:37 26/07/2004 +0800, Senectus . wrote: >For those of you that are interested this is DAMN good value.. >http://www.novell.com/training/linux/workshop/ap_workshop.html > >We're about 10 people away from another class (I hear) being setup for >maybe august.. so register your interest asap if you want to go.. I went to the one they held in Perth two weeks ago. Very full house. Sounds like the same thing they wanted $39 for then. Note the blurb says "advanced Linux users should not attend" but there were quite a few in the audience who are obviously using Linux pretty darned effectively :-) Quite a few of my colleagues from the HDWA side of town, staunch Novell + Windows users who had either been dabbling in Linux or were impressed (by the Linux side) out of the box. Don't expect a lot of high-tech insights in the actual demo - the fellow walked us through an installation of SUSE (no lowercase u now apparently) on an IBM laptop. The presenter was talking at the level of "these are several useful commands ... ls mkdir rmdir" ps did not rate a mention. I'm not being negative just pointing out what was on offer then. Presenter was responding to higher-level questions from the audience. The upside was a goodie bag including full 3-CD set of SUSE, a trial version of Novell on Linux, an amazingly good spread of food if being held at Excom in the City, and people who liked to talk shop during the breaks! I went along principally because I wanted to see how Linux is being portrayed in the marketplace and what Novell customers could expect to see. Not a lot of emphasis on the Novell side - certainly we did not get into NDS trees, etc. Hey, what can you fit into one day anyway :-) SUSE installed semi-cleanly onto the IBM laptop. The show stopper was the non-recognition of the NIC, the correction to which was explained and demonstrated to be viable - grab a different driver :-) Cheers, Denis From jjohnson at westnet.com.au Mon Jul 26 14:21:24 2004 From: jjohnson at westnet.com.au (Joel Johnson) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 14:21:24 +0800 Subject: [plug] Xandros OS Message-ID: <011f01c472d8$c77c6fe0$b501a8c0@joelj> Just noticed that the latest Australian Developer mag has a copy of Xandros Desktop OS on the cover CD and was wondering if anyone has had a play with Xandros in the past and what they thought of it? Regards Joel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au Mon Jul 26 14:36:04 2004 From: shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au (Shayne O'Neill) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 14:36:04 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Xandros OS In-Reply-To: <011f01c472d8$c77c6fe0$b501a8c0@joelj> Message-ID: Yes. Xandros is marvelous. Its a custom tweaked debian that fits together really tightly. Its kde based, and the gnome/other apps are tweaked to take advantage of KDE (Ie, mozilla and Open Office default to k-printer, etc). You might be slightly disturbed by some of the windows-isms in it, but basically whats happening is xandros succeeds where lycoris/lindows/etc fail... ie its not retarded. The crossover office integration is only in the pay-for version, so wont be on the cover. I'm told it works beautifully, giving a true windows alternative. I'm moving back to it, because its as easy to install as knoppix (the autodetection is fab) and not as gonzo as knoppix. Give it to yer mother. -- "the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 27, 2003 Shayne O'Neill. http://www.perthimc.asn.au On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, Joel Johnson wrote: > Just noticed that the latest Australian Developer mag has a copy of Xandros Desktop OS on the cover CD and was wondering if anyone has had a play with Xandros in the past and what they thought of it? > > Regards > > Joel From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Mon Jul 26 14:43:43 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 14:43:43 +0800 Subject: [plug] Lite HTTP server In-Reply-To: <20040726110407.5d7a1dff.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> References: <20040726110407.5d7a1dff.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> Message-ID: <20040726064342.GA24118@cp.yi.org> Harry wrote: > I don't need Apache's size so can someone advise the lightest http and > ftp servers that I can use to keep the base install partition as small > as ? For http: thttpd? dhttpd? publicfile? Dunno about ftp, the "ftpd" package isn't exactly large though (43kb). Cameron. From harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au Mon Jul 26 14:56:05 2004 From: harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au (Harry) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 14:56:05 +0800 Subject: [plug] Lite HTTP server In-Reply-To: <20040726064342.GA24118@cp.yi.org> References: <20040726110407.5d7a1dff.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> <20040726064342.GA24118@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <20040726145605.08cd5c6b.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 14:43:43 +0800 Cameron Patrick wrote: > Harry wrote: > > > I don't need Apache's size so can someone advise the lightest http and > > ftp servers that I can use to keep the base install partition as small > > as ? > > For http: thttpd? dhttpd? publicfile? > Dunno about ftp, the "ftpd" package isn't exactly large though (43kb). > > Cameron. Thanks B and C boa is on. Drive has a 250MB partition 88% full so it doesn't cut into the available space too much. I'll pop on ftpd (it might already be in base). I made the /mirror partition reiserfs .. probably because I can *shrug* I'm off to buy a Wizard to 20GB IDE cable for some reason .. Harry -- Are you a computer angel? http://www.computerangels.org.au/ From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Mon Jul 26 15:41:50 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 15:41:50 +0800 Subject: [plug] Xandros OS In-Reply-To: <011f01c472d8$c77c6fe0$b501a8c0@joelj> References: <011f01c472d8$c77c6fe0$b501a8c0@joelj> Message-ID: <4104B5BE.9040108@smlintl.com.au> Is there a free version of xandros? Also I'm wondering whether anyone has managed to get Quickbooks Pro working under linux or MYOB. Regards, Marc Joel Johnson wrote: > Just noticed that the latest Australian Developer mag has a copy of > Xandros Desktop OS on the cover CD and was wondering if anyone has had > a play with Xandros in the past and what they thought of it? > > Regards > > Joel > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > From jjohnson at westnet.com.au Mon Jul 26 15:56:16 2004 From: jjohnson at westnet.com.au (Joel Johnson) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 15:56:16 +0800 Subject: [plug] Xandros OS References: <011f01c472d8$c77c6fe0$b501a8c0@joelj> <4104B5BE.9040108@smlintl.com.au> Message-ID: <016a01c472e6$083d34d0$b501a8c0@joelj> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Wiriadisastra" To: ; "Joel Johnson" Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 3:41 PM Subject: Re: [plug] Xandros OS > Is there a free version of xandros? > The one on the cover of the August Australian Developer mag is the "Open Circulation Edition" - ie for non-commercial use and no e-mail support (not too big a problem as apparently it's based on Debian so shouldn't be too difficult to get assistance from other PLUG members). Joel From bret at busby.net Mon Jul 26 16:38:54 2004 From: bret at busby.net (Bret Busby) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 16:38:54 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] ** July Workshop Notice ** In-Reply-To: <20040725162158.GR2245@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, Bernard Blackham wrote: > > Just a reminder that the monthly PLUG workshop will be happening > tonight (Monday 26th July). If your computer is in need of some > hands-on help to configure or install Linux, it's the best > opportunity to get some assistance. It's also an ideal time to just > meet and chat Linux with other PLUGgers! > > Venue: University Computer Club (UCC), Upper level of Cameron Hall, > above the Tavern. University of WA. For detailed directions, see > http://ucc.asn.au/aboutucc/contact.ucc > > When: 7:30pm, Monday 22nd March 2004 > > Visitors and friends are most welcome. > > Regards, > > Bernard. > > Will there be anyone there, who knows Smoothwall for using with an ADSL modem/router thing - that can help getting it setup and configured? Thanks in anticipation. -- Bret Busby Armadale West Australia .............. "So once you do know what the question actually is, you'll know what the answer means." - Deep Thought, Chapter 28 of "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: A Trilogy In Four Parts", written by Douglas Adams, published by Pan Books, 1992 .................................................... From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Mon Jul 26 16:42:29 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 16:42:29 +0800 Subject: [plug] ** July Workshop Notice ** In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200407261642.30322@death.2.spammers> On Monday 26 July 2004 16:38, Bret Busby wrote: > On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, Bernard Blackham wrote: > > Just a reminder that the monthly PLUG workshop will be happening > > tonight (Monday 26th July). If your computer is in need of some > > hands-on help to configure or install Linux, it's the best > > opportunity to get some assistance. It's also an ideal time to just > > meet and chat Linux with other PLUGgers! > > > > Venue: University Computer Club (UCC), Upper level of Cameron Hall, > > above the Tavern. University of WA. For detailed directions, see > > http://ucc.asn.au/aboutucc/contact.ucc > > When: 7:30pm, Monday 22nd March 2004 > Will there be anyone there, who knows Smoothwall for using with an ADSL > modem/router thing - that can help getting it setup and configured? There good news and bad news. Bad news is that I won't be there due to the flu. The good news is that I know nothing about Smoothwall anyway. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From senectus at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 16:44:48 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 16:44:48 +0800 Subject: [plug] looking for fellow Gentoo users.... Message-ID: I've just made an rsync server that should be available on the web.. I'm needing two Gentoo users.. one on WAIX and one off WAIX... to see if I can figure out how to lock it down to WAIX users only.. anyone else out there? -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From senectus at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 16:48:16 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 16:48:16 +0800 Subject: [plug] ** July Workshop Notice ** In-Reply-To: <200407261642.30322@death.2.spammers> References: <200407261642.30322@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: > There good news and bad news. > > Bad news is that I won't be there due to the flu. > The good news is that I know nothing about Smoothwall anyway. > Funny :-P I guess that makes two of us.. as I won't be there cause I've been up and working since 3 am this morning... and I too know nothing of smoothwall (I use shorewall) -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Mon Jul 26 16:51:38 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 16:51:38 +0800 Subject: [plug] looking for fellow Gentoo users.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4104C61A.807@smlintl.com.au> In order to lock it down to waix the "easiest" way is to get a list of waix ranges which is easy enough to get I can get hold of that stuff but after that you need to put it in a firewall script. If you want the list ask me and I'll email it. Regards, Marc Senectus . wrote: >I've just made an rsync server that should be available on the web.. >I'm needing two Gentoo users.. one on WAIX and one off WAIX... to see >if I can figure out how to lock it down to WAIX users only.. anyone >else out there? > > From a.blockley at poboxes.com Mon Jul 26 16:55:31 2004 From: a.blockley at poboxes.com (Adrian Blockley) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 16:55:31 +0800 Subject: [plug] looking for fellow Gentoo users.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040726165531.26eab538@family1> On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 16:44:48 +0800 "Senectus ." wrote: > I've just made an rsync server that should be available on the web.. > I'm needing two Gentoo users.. one on WAIX and one off WAIX... to see > if I can figure out how to lock it down to WAIX users only.. anyone > else out there? Ok a fellow WAIX connected Gentoo type here... What do I need to do? Cheers Age -- "There are only 10 kinds of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't." Adrian Blockley 32 Darwinia Loop Canningvale WA, 6155 Ph: 08 9256 1953 Mobile: 0405 609 990 From senectus at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 16:56:57 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 16:56:57 +0800 Subject: [plug] looking for fellow Gentoo users.... In-Reply-To: <4104C61A.807@smlintl.com.au> References: <4104C61A.807@smlintl.com.au> Message-ID: Great.. thanks :-) I'll have that any time your ready to give it :-) rsync.conf script will let me dictate what IP ranges to allow and not. BTW for anyone interested.. Gentoo 2004.2 has been released today. On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 16:51:38 +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > In order to lock it down to waix the "easiest" way is to get a list of > waix ranges which is easy enough to get I can get hold of that stuff but > after that you need to put it in a firewall script. > > If you want the list ask me and I'll email it. > > Regards, > > Marc From Adrian at Midland.RoyWeston.com.au Mon Jul 26 16:52:19 2004 From: Adrian at Midland.RoyWeston.com.au (Adrian Woodley) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 16:52:19 +0800 Subject: [plug] Hacker Nights (was ** July Workshop Notice **) In-Reply-To: <20040725162158.GR2245@blackham.com.au> References: <20040725162158.GR2245@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: <4104C643.8090205@Midland.RoyWeston.com.au> G'Day PLUGers, On a semi-related topic, I've been thinking about starting a monthly Hacker Night. This would be similar to the workshop but instead of turning up to get someone to help, people will turn up to work on their own project. I've noticed that there is a mild amount of frustration amoug "those who know" when their own work is un-completed in favour of helping others. Do not get me wrong, the workshops are a very important part of PLUG and I don't think anyone "who knows" would berate people for asking for help. On the contrary I think the people attending PLUG workshops enjoy helping others with their Linux problems. However, PLUG is more than just support for new users, we should be promoting and supporting those are doing exciting things on theor own. There is scope for asking for a small amount of assistance, but generally its to get a group of people together who are doing cool things in Linux, maybe buy some pizza, and generally hack on for an evening. At appropriate times of the year these meetings could be converted to bug squashing events, but on the whole people should be working on their project buy themselves. I'm not sure if my idea has been translated correctly into this email, but I think people will get the idea. All we need now is a time and a place (I'd prefer not UCC - we should be sharing the love around :P ). Regards, Adrian Bernard Blackham wrote: >Just a reminder that the monthly PLUG workshop will be happening >tonight (Monday 26th July). If your computer is in need of some >hands-on help to configure or install Linux, it's the best >opportunity to get some assistance. It's also an ideal time to just >meet and chat Linux with other PLUGgers! > >Venue: University Computer Club (UCC), Upper level of Cameron Hall, >above the Tavern. University of WA. For detailed directions, see >http://ucc.asn.au/aboutucc/contact.ucc > >When: 7:30pm, Monday 22nd March 2004 > >Visitors and friends are most welcome. > >Regards, > >Bernard. > > > From shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au Mon Jul 26 17:09:06 2004 From: shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au (Shayne O'Neill) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 17:09:06 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Hacker Nights (was ** July Workshop Notice **) In-Reply-To: <4104C643.8090205@Midland.RoyWeston.com.au> Message-ID: On that subject, It'd be nice to have 2 plug lists [plug] and [plug-newbies] or something. The basic idea being plug-newbies being a list where beginners can feel free to ask 'dumb' questions ('What is the root account'? etc) without the intimidation that a list full of eosoteria about kernel tuning and deep-level scripting can bring a beginner. The concept would be those of us who are happy to share our knowledge can sit on the list and answer beginner questions, and that beginners who know answers can feel free to answer questions without feeling intimidated by more experienced crew. Plus those who feel fatigued by 'dumb' questions would be spared them. Shayne. -- "the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 27, 2003 Shayne O'Neill. http://www.perthimc.asn.au On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, Adrian Woodley wrote: > G'Day PLUGers, > On a semi-related topic, I've been thinking about starting a > monthly Hacker Night. This would be similar to the workshop but instead > of turning up to get someone to help, people will turn up to work on > their own project. I've noticed that there is a mild amount of > frustration amoug "those who know" when their own work is un-completed > in favour of helping others. > Do not get me wrong, the workshops are a very important part of > PLUG and I don't think anyone "who knows" would berate people for asking > for help. On the contrary I think the people attending PLUG workshops > enjoy helping others with their Linux problems. However, PLUG is more > than just support for new users, we should be promoting and supporting > those are doing exciting things on theor own. > There is scope for asking for a small amount of assistance, but > generally its to get a group of people together who are doing cool > things in Linux, maybe buy some pizza, and generally hack on for an > evening. At appropriate times of the year these meetings could be > converted to bug squashing events, but on the whole people should be > working on their project buy themselves. > I'm not sure if my idea has been translated correctly into this > email, but I think people will get the idea. All we need now is a time > and a place (I'd prefer not UCC - we should be sharing the love around :P ). > > Regards, > Adrian > > Bernard Blackham wrote: > > >Just a reminder that the monthly PLUG workshop will be happening > >tonight (Monday 26th July). If your computer is in need of some > >hands-on help to configure or install Linux, it's the best > >opportunity to get some assistance. It's also an ideal time to just > >meet and chat Linux with other PLUGgers! > > > >Venue: University Computer Club (UCC), Upper level of Cameron Hall, > >above the Tavern. University of WA. For detailed directions, see > >http://ucc.asn.au/aboutucc/contact.ucc > > > >When: 7:30pm, Monday 22nd March 2004 > > > >Visitors and friends are most welcome. > > > >Regards, > > > >Bernard. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au Mon Jul 26 17:10:17 2004 From: harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au (Harry) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 17:10:17 +0800 Subject: Groan .. no cable .. Re: [plug] Lite HTTP server In-Reply-To: <20040726145605.08cd5c6b.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> References: <20040726110407.5d7a1dff.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> <20040726064342.GA24118@cp.yi.org> <20040726145605.08cd5c6b.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> Message-ID: <20040726171017.7ec74bdb.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 14:56:05 +0800 Harry wrote: > I'm off to buy a Wizard to 20GB IDE cable for some reason .. Wah! Netway Wombley said they had the 44 to 40 way IDE but when I got there the cupboard was bare :-( Rang Willeton .. then Kardinya .. no go :'-( Does anyone have one to borrow for an evening who will be at UCC tonight ? Otherwise I'll bring an alternative box = heavier. Harry -- Are you a computer angel? http://www.computerangels.org.au/ From weirdo at tigris.org Mon Jul 26 17:12:44 2004 From: weirdo at tigris.org (Tim White) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 17:12:44 +0800 Subject: [plug] Hacker Nights (was ** July Workshop Notice **) In-Reply-To: <4104C643.8090205@Midland.RoyWeston.com.au> Message-ID: I like this idea. Maybe if we have something between the Workshop and the Lecture/talk things. Possibly HOW-TO do some cool hacker/programming tricks and people share their cool and funky projects and ideas around. It could be a good plug for some people and possible get others intrested in others projects. This would have to be open source projects more than personal/work related things but I'm sure there is probably some game programers out there that would love to 'show off' there work and give a little demo/example to others who are interested. Somethings look too big to tackle until you have seen someone else do it. I would love to learn a little kernel programming for example and I'm sure that some people out there would love to give CSS a go. Just an idea Tim ----- Original Message --------------- Subject: [plug] Hacker Nights (was ** July Workshop Notice **) From: Adrian Woodley Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 16:52:19 +0800 To: plug at plug.linux.org.au >G'Day PLUGers, > On a semi-related topic, I've been thinking about starting a >monthly Hacker Night. This would be similar to the workshop but instead >of turning up to get someone to help, people will turn up to work on >their own project. I've noticed that there is a mild amount of >frustration amoug "those who know" when their own work is un-completed >in favour of helping others. > Do not get me wrong, the workshops are a very important part of >PLUG and I don't think anyone "who knows" would berate people for asking >for help. On the contrary I think the people attending PLUG workshops >enjoy helping others with their Linux problems. However, PLUG is more >than just support for new users, we should be promoting and supporting >those are doing exciting things on theor own. > There is scope for asking for a small amount of assistance, but >generally its to get a group of people together who are doing cool >things in Linux, maybe buy some pizza, and generally hack on for an >evening. At appropriate times of the year these meetings could be >converted to bug squashing events, but on the whole people should be >working on their project buy themselves. > I'm not sure if my idea has been translated correctly into this >email, but I think people will get the idea. All we need now is a time >and a place (I'd prefer not UCC - we should be sharing the love around :P ). > >Regards, >Adrian > >Bernard Blackham wrote: > >>Just a reminder that the monthly PLUG workshop will be happening >>tonight (Monday 26th July). If your computer is in need of some >>hands-on help to configure or install Linux, it's the best >>opportunity to get some assistance. It's also an ideal time to just >>meet and chat Linux with other PLUGgers! >> >>Venue: University Computer Club (UCC), Upper level of Cameron Hall, >>above the Tavern. University of WA. For detailed directions, see >>http://ucc.asn.au/aboutucc/contact.ucc >> >>When: 7:30pm, Monday 22nd March 2004 >> >>Visitors and friends are most welcome. >> >>Regards, >> >>Bernard. >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ From weirdo at tigris.org Mon Jul 26 17:17:11 2004 From: weirdo at tigris.org (Tim White) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 17:17:11 +0800 Subject: [plug] Hacker Nights (was ** July Workshop Notice **) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sounds alright. It would probably get repetitive and from my knowledge (but i can't remember exact details at the time) there is already a similar list else were that volunters from around the world use. Something like that is more suited to realtime IRC. Maybe people contribute lots of dump questions and answers and we compile and FAQ, then if the question isn't on the list they can send a message to [plug-newbies] ether by subscribing or through a web form. Then we would reply directly to the person as well as adding there question and an answer to the FAQ. Obviously the FAQ would have the bare basics and then sub catagories below that. I wouldn't mind being on this [plug-newbies] list as I was once one of them (just over 2 years ago. Mind you I started using Debian when the last 2. something version was just released) and I would love to help by giving back to the community. If any html/php/css skills are needed then I am happy to give what I have. Tim ----- Original Message --------------- Subject: Re: [plug] Hacker Nights (was ** July Workshop Notice **) From: "Shayne O'Neill" Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 17:09:06 +0800 (WST) To: plug at plug.linux.org.au > >On that subject, It'd be nice to have 2 plug lists [plug] and >[plug-newbies] or something. > >The basic idea being plug-newbies being a list where beginners can feel >free to ask 'dumb' questions ('What is the root account'? etc) without >the intimidation that a list full of eosoteria about kernel tuning and >deep-level scripting can bring a beginner. The concept would be those of >us who are happy to share our knowledge can sit on the list and answer >beginner questions, and that beginners who know answers can feel free to >answer questions without feeling intimidated by more experienced crew. > >Plus those who feel fatigued by 'dumb' questions would be spared them. > >Shayne. > >-- >"the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And >we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." >George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 27, 2003 > >Shayne O'Neill. http://www.perthimc.asn.au > >On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, Adrian Woodley wrote: > >> G'Day PLUGers, >> On a semi-related topic, I've been thinking about starting a >> monthly Hacker Night. This would be similar to the workshop but instead >> of turning up to get someone to help, people will turn up to work on >> their own project. I've noticed that there is a mild amount of >> frustration amoug "those who know" when their own work is un-completed >> in favour of helping others. >> Do not get me wrong, the workshops are a very important part of >> PLUG and I don't think anyone "who knows" would berate people for asking >> for help. On the contrary I think the people attending PLUG workshops >> enjoy helping others with their Linux problems. However, PLUG is more >> than just support for new users, we should be promoting and supporting >> those are doing exciting things on theor own. >> There is scope for asking for a small amount of assistance, but >> generally its to get a group of people together who are doing cool >> things in Linux, maybe buy some pizza, and generally hack on for an >> evening. At appropriate times of the year these meetings could be >> converted to bug squashing events, but on the whole people should be >> working on their project buy themselves. >> I'm not sure if my idea has been translated correctly into this >> email, but I think people will get the idea. All we need now is a time >> and a place (I'd prefer not UCC - we should be sharing the love around :P ). >> >> Regards, >> Adrian From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Mon Jul 26 17:17:47 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 17:17:47 +0800 Subject: [plug] looking for fellow Gentoo users.... In-Reply-To: References: <4104C61A.807@smlintl.com.au> Message-ID: <4104CC3B.3080905@smlintl.com.au> The easiest way for me to give it to you is to show you the link that was given to me which sorta gives you the "tools" to do it yourself. http://www.martybugs.net/linux/waix.ipac/ What it does is create a script for you to get everyday at a certain time I think 8pm to get the updated list. If you have issues contact me and I'll go through it with you since I've implemented the whole thing several times. Regards, Marc Senectus . wrote: >Great.. thanks :-) I'll have that any time your ready to give it :-) >rsync.conf script will let me dictate what IP ranges to allow and not. > >BTW for anyone interested.. Gentoo 2004.2 has been released today. > >On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 16:51:38 +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra > wrote: > > >>In order to lock it down to waix the "easiest" way is to get a list of >>waix ranges which is easy enough to get I can get hold of that stuff but >>after that you need to put it in a firewall script. >> >>If you want the list ask me and I'll email it. >> >>Regards, >> >>Marc >> >> >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Mon Jul 26 17:21:38 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 17:21:38 +0800 Subject: [plug] Hacker Nights (was ** July Workshop Notice **) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4104CD22.40105@smlintl.com.au> I agree I would definately like to know about heaps more stuff that I can't sorta think of at the moment. Regards, Marc Tim White wrote: >I like this idea. >Maybe if we have something between the Workshop and the Lecture/talk things. Possibly HOW-TO do some cool hacker/programming tricks and people share their cool and funky projects and ideas around. It could be a good plug for some people and possible get others intrested in others projects. This would have to be open source projects more than personal/work related things but I'm sure there is probably some game programers out there that would love to 'show off' there work and give a little demo/example to others who are interested. Somethings look too big to tackle until you have seen someone else do it. I would love to learn a little kernel programming for example and I'm sure that some people out there would love to give CSS a go. >Just an idea >Tim > >----- Original Message --------------- > >Subject: [plug] Hacker Nights (was ** July Workshop Notice **) > From: Adrian Woodley > Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 16:52:19 +0800 > To: plug at plug.linux.org.au > > > >>G'Day PLUGers, >> On a semi-related topic, I've been thinking about starting a >>monthly Hacker Night. This would be similar to the workshop but instead >>of turning up to get someone to help, people will turn up to work on >>their own project. I've noticed that there is a mild amount of >>frustration amoug "those who know" when their own work is un-completed >>in favour of helping others. >> Do not get me wrong, the workshops are a very important part of >>PLUG and I don't think anyone "who knows" would berate people for asking >>for help. On the contrary I think the people attending PLUG workshops >>enjoy helping others with their Linux problems. However, PLUG is more >>than just support for new users, we should be promoting and supporting >>those are doing exciting things on theor own. >> There is scope for asking for a small amount of assistance, but >>generally its to get a group of people together who are doing cool >>things in Linux, maybe buy some pizza, and generally hack on for an >>evening. At appropriate times of the year these meetings could be >>converted to bug squashing events, but on the whole people should be >>working on their project buy themselves. >> I'm not sure if my idea has been translated correctly into this >>email, but I think people will get the idea. All we need now is a time >>and a place (I'd prefer not UCC - we should be sharing the love around :P ). >> >>Regards, >>Adrian >> >>Bernard Blackham wrote: >> >> >> >>>Just a reminder that the monthly PLUG workshop will be happening >>>tonight (Monday 26th July). If your computer is in need of some >>>hands-on help to configure or install Linux, it's the best >>>opportunity to get some assistance. It's also an ideal time to just >>>meet and chat Linux with other PLUGgers! >>> >>>Venue: University Computer Club (UCC), Upper level of Cameron Hall, >>>above the Tavern. University of WA. For detailed directions, see >>>http://ucc.asn.au/aboutucc/contact.ucc >>> >>>When: 7:30pm, Monday 22nd March 2004 >>> >>>Visitors and friends are most welcome. >>> >>>Regards, >>> >>>Bernard. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >> >> >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Mon Jul 26 17:45:44 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 17:45:44 +0800 Subject: [plug] Hacker Nights (was ** July Workshop Notice **) In-Reply-To: References: <4104C643.8090205@Midland.RoyWeston.com.au> Message-ID: <20040726094544.GA31458@cp.yi.org> Shayne O'Neill wrote: > On that subject, It'd be nice to have 2 plug lists [plug] and > [plug-newbies] or something. This idea has been suggested before, I believe. The main reservation I have towards it is that it would encourage a tendency for those who could perhaps be the most help to these newbies[1] to not listen to their questions. Other people may start out inexperienced, but pick up stuff from reading mailing list posts from those who have been around for longer. It may also have a tendency to split the PLUG community a bit. Both of these would be less of a problem if PLUG were larger -- or maybe we're big enough already and I've just not noticed it! :-) FWIW I've heard of a "linux elitists" mailing list for those whose egos require them to be vindictive towards newcomers. While splitting [plug] won't necessarily encourage that kind of attitude, it's still one step in that direction. > Plus those who feel fatigued by 'dumb' questions would be spared > them. *shrug* You're under no obligation to actually /answer/ them. Cheers, Cam- brave defender of the status quo -eron. [1] How many "newbie" problems get a reply from James Devenish 30 seconds after hitting the list, saying something like "I don't have a clue how to solve your particular problem because I'm not really a Linux user but on some operating systems [insert correct solution to newbie's problem here]"? :-P -- or similar from any of quite a few other knowledgeable folks we have on this list. From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Mon Jul 26 17:58:56 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 17:58:56 +0800 Subject: Groan .. no cable .. Re: [plug] Lite HTTP server In-Reply-To: <20040726171017.7ec74bdb.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> References: <20040726110407.5d7a1dff.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> <20040726064342.GA24118@cp.yi.org> <20040726145605.08cd5c6b.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> <20040726171017.7ec74bdb.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> Message-ID: <4104D5E0.7050303@postnewspapers.com.au> Harry wrote: > Does anyone have one to borrow for an evening who will be at > UCC tonight ? Otherwise I'll bring an alternative box = heavier. I have a cable I know is suited for running a 44 pin drive on a 40 pin machine. I presume it can be used in the other direction too (some workaround for the 12v issue permitting). I can't guarantee I'll be able to find it though, as I'm still slooowly unpacking after the move. -- Craig Ringer From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Mon Jul 26 18:01:26 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 18:01:26 +0800 Subject: [plug] Hacker Nights (was ** July Workshop Notice **) In-Reply-To: References: <4104C643.8090205@Midland.RoyWeston.com.au> Message-ID: <20040726100126.GB31458@cp.yi.org> Tim White wrote: > [Adrian: let's have Hacker Nights] > I like this idea. I like it too! > Possibly HOW-TO do some cool hacker/programming tricks and people > share their cool and funky projects and ideas around. It could be a > good plug for some people and possible get others intrested in > others projects. Yes. One problem about PLUG is that there aren't /that/ many people who are actively involved in open source development -- but there are certainly a few, and it would be great to get more involved. You mentioned getting more involved in Debian... well, perhaps we could hold a PLUG Debian bug-squashing party some time. If that went well, it could give people some experience of how things happen in the Debian world, how to dive into a Debian package and do stuff to it. (I find that seeing how other people do things is a great way to learn how to do something similar yourself.) > This would have to be open source projects more than personal/work > related things There may even be scope for, once in a while, showing off personal or work accomplishments somewhere; or perhaps drumming up interest for everyone's pet interesting but lesser known open source projects. e.g. Craig Ringer's "This is how I put together an office network with $SPIFFY_STUFF using a lot of open source technology" which has kind of been coming through as digested anecdotes on this list for a while now. Other examples include my repeated subtle plugging of the Ratpoison window manager (which I started as a user of, and then dived in and started submitting patches to) or even the Arch revision control system on this list. The next seminar is a "newbie" introduction to Linux... perhaps we could have another seminar later for more "advanced" or command line oriented tips and tricks? I've picked up quite a few things from other PLUGgers, such as the use and abuse of GNU screen, Vim, zsh and a whole bunch of other tools which I don't know what I'd do without. Maybe a "Shell scripting for masochists" or the like, too. > I would love to learn a little kernel programming for example and > I'm sure that some people out there would love to give CSS a go. Actually, I would too. We have a couple of kernel hackers on the list: Brad Campbell (sadly not in Perth) and Bernard B spring to mind. Perhaps there are more who I've forgotten or haven't spoken up? Cheers, Cameron. (Now afraid that since I've thrown up all these ideas, people will expect me to be the one to do something about them :-/) From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Mon Jul 26 18:03:34 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 18:03:34 +0800 Subject: Groan .. no cable .. Re: [plug] Lite HTTP server In-Reply-To: <4104D5E0.7050303@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <20040726110407.5d7a1dff.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> <20040726064342.GA24118@cp.yi.org> <20040726145605.08cd5c6b.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> <20040726171017.7ec74bdb.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> <4104D5E0.7050303@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <20040726100334.GC31458@cp.yi.org> Craig Ringer wrote: > I have a cable I know is suited for running a 44 pin drive on a 40 pin > machine. I do too, I'll bring it to the workshop. > I presume it can be used in the other direction too No idea -- my first guess is "no" but I'm unable to come up with a good reason why not at the moment. > (some workaround for the 12v issue permitting) Should be trivial: don't plug anything into the molex connector on the adapter, and use the one on your real PSU instead. Cameron. From jtwarwick at iinet.net.au Mon Jul 26 18:06:19 2004 From: jtwarwick at iinet.net.au (Jay Warwick) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 18:06:19 +0800 Subject: [plug] Hacker Nights (was ** July Workshop Notice **) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1090836379.2641.11.camel@hosrv01.jtajt.local> Sounds to me like you are fobbing us newbies off. Does this mean that the newbies will be sending emails to newbies for help? Doesn't seem to be much point in that! >From my 'newbie' observations there are not many newbie questions, or at least we put 'newbie' in the subject line which gives you advanced guys the option to not even open our emails. Thanks JW -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Shayne O'Neill Subject: Re: [plug] Hacker Nights (was ** July Workshop Notice **) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 17:09:06 +0800 (WST) Size: 5574 URL: From nofixed at westnet.com.au Mon Jul 26 18:05:59 2004 From: nofixed at westnet.com.au (Jim Householder) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 18:05:59 +0800 Subject: [plug] Xandros OS In-Reply-To: <016a01c472e6$083d34d0$b501a8c0@joelj> References: <011f01c472d8$c77c6fe0$b501a8c0@joelj> <4104B5BE.9040108@smlintl.com.au> <016a01c472e6$083d34d0$b501a8c0@joelj> Message-ID: <4104D787.20004@westnet.com.au> Joel Johnson wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > > >>Is there a free version of xandros? >> > > > The one on the cover of the August Australian Developer mag is the "Open > Circulation Edition" - ie for non-commercial use and no e-mail support (not > too big a problem as apparently it's based on Debian so shouldn't be too > difficult to get assistance from other PLUG members). > > Joel xandros 2 was the first distro I used full-time. Until it came out with the April 2004 issue of Australian PC Authority I dabbled a bit and played around with it, but nothing serious. xandros installed smoothly and for a while I was quite happy with it. Very easy to use. However while being of debian origin, it is quite heavily tweaked. It is good for users, but not for hackers. I eventually moved on to other distros because of things xandros did not cater for or had been modified to hide. xandros-networks is quite convenient for package management, but be aware that it is *not* fault-tolerant. Better to use apt. I have tried to use dselect, but found that if too many dependencies need to be satisfied it gets hopelessly tangled. Jim From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Mon Jul 26 18:20:49 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 18:20:49 +0800 Subject: plug-newbies@plug [was: [plug] Hacker Nights (was ** July Workshop Notice **)] In-Reply-To: <1090836379.2641.11.camel@hosrv01.jtajt.local> References: <1090836379.2641.11.camel@hosrv01.jtajt.local> Message-ID: <20040726102049.GA21358@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <1090836379.2641.11.camel at hosrv01.jtajt.local> on Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 06:06:19PM +0800, Jay Warwick wrote: > Sounds to me like you are fobbing us newbies off. Don't worry --- there was also recently a suggestion to administratively strangle non-newbie posters. The idea of a plug-newbies list does have its merits (and don't worry -- non-newbies would be subscribed). However, I personally doubt that there's "critical mass" to ensure that such partitioning would function naturally under its own steam. If I recall correctly, June of this year was basically a "newbie month" on this list. I assume it is just the ebb and flow of what people happen to have on their plates. In contrast to the current musing, I think in June there was a query about finding an alternative for "experts" (as opposed to an alternative for "newbies"). When the list traffic is high and biased strongly towards "newbie" or "expert", partitioning seems to be preferred by some subscribers. But as people will point out, this sort of cross-over (for want of a better description) has benefits of its own. Note also that there have been already been various prior ideas about having multiple lists, newsgroups, website fora or maybe IRC channels. So far, I think the only one that has got off the ground is the off-topic list. From nofixed at westnet.com.au Mon Jul 26 18:21:05 2004 From: nofixed at westnet.com.au (Jim Householder) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 18:21:05 +0800 Subject: [plug] OCR Message-ID: <4104DB11.9080301@westnet.com.au> I have a project in mind which appears to lend itself to OCR. My wife does a lot of cross-stitch needlework, and some of the patterns she gets use a rather poor set of symbols to indicate colours, etc. Sometimes as bad as ';' for green, ':' for blue! What I want to do is scan the pattern and print a new copy having replaced the symbols with a more readable set. For that I think I need an OCR program that is capable of learning new character sets. Any thoughts or suggestions? Jim From shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au Mon Jul 26 18:38:02 2004 From: shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au (Shayne O'Neill) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 18:38:02 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Hacker Nights (was ** July Workshop Notice **) In-Reply-To: <1090836379.2641.11.camel@hosrv01.jtajt.local> Message-ID: nonononono. The idea was that experienced folk'd be on that list too, but it'd be a 'safer' feeling space for newbies to ask questions. I know I used to be terified of the old unix newsgroups back in the day when I was learning, basically because I'd look at the high level stuff and feel like a dummy. -- "the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 27, 2003 Shayne O'Neill. http://www.perthimc.asn.au On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, Jay Warwick wrote: > Sounds to me like you are fobbing us newbies off. Does this mean that > the newbies will be sending emails to newbies for help? Doesn't seem to > be much point in that! > > >From my 'newbie' observations there are not many newbie questions, or at > least we put 'newbie' in the subject line which gives you advanced guys > the option to not even open our emails. > > Thanks > JW > From andrew at operationaldynamics.com Mon Jul 26 19:17:22 2004 From: andrew at operationaldynamics.com (Andrew Cowie) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 21:17:22 +1000 Subject: [plug] looking for fellow Gentoo users.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1090840642.15301.69.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 16:44 +0800, Senectus . wrote: > Gentoo user ... one on WAIX and one off WAIX... For what it's worth, I'm definitely off WAIX. Contact me off list if you're still looking for route testing assistance. AfC Sydney -- Andrew Frederick Cowie OPERATIONAL DYNAMICS Operations Consultants and Infrastructure Engineers http://www.operationaldynamics.com/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Mon Jul 26 19:32:30 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 19:32:30 +0800 Subject: [plug] looking for fellow Gentoo users.... In-Reply-To: <1090840642.15301.69.camel@localhost> References: <1090840642.15301.69.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20040726113230.GA22862@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <1090840642.15301.69.camel at localhost> on Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 09:17:22PM +1000, Andrew Cowie wrote: > On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 16:44 +0800, Senectus . wrote: > > Gentoo user ... one on WAIX and one off WAIX... > For what it's worth, I'm definitely off WAIX. Contact me off list if > you're still looking for route testing assistance. Are you sure? Oops, that sounds rude. What I mean to say is: are you sure this is correct for the particular host with which you will be accessing the Perth rsync server? The reason I ask is that some non-WA service providers have peering arrangements such that interstate sites are routed as WAIX peers. A traceroute from your end could help to confirm if there is a visible "risk" of being "on WAIX" (unless you already know about this or are using one of "those" ISPs, e.g. Optus or Telstra, where you are already sure that no such arrangements exist). :-P > Sydney From jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au Mon Jul 26 20:34:53 2004 From: jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au (Jon Miller) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 20:34:53 +0800 Subject: [plug] Novell / IBM training Message-ID: Yeah I agree, I wasn't expecting too much from the technical side, since that would have taken more time and explanation, but for an overview of what IBM , Novell and SUSE are doing seems good. Keep in mind that Novell and IBM have products and application that they want to sell, and they want to use SUSE as their vehicle. Overall it was good Jon Jon L. Miller, ASE, CNS, CLS, MCNE Director/Sr Systems Consultant MMT Networks Pty Ltd http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby >>> dsbrown at cyllene.uwa.edu.au 1:22:48 pm 26/07/2004 >>> At 12:37 26/07/2004 +0800, Senectus . wrote: >For those of you that are interested this is DAMN good value.. >http://www.novell.com/training/linux/workshop/ap_workshop.html > >We're about 10 people away from another class (I hear) being setup for >maybe august.. so register your interest asap if you want to go.. I went to the one they held in Perth two weeks ago. Very full house. Sounds like the same thing they wanted $39 for then. Note the blurb says "advanced Linux users should not attend" but there were quite a few in the audience who are obviously using Linux pretty darned effectively :-) Quite a few of my colleagues from the HDWA side of town, staunch Novell + Windows users who had either been dabbling in Linux or were impressed (by the Linux side) out of the box. Don't expect a lot of high-tech insights in the actual demo - the fellow walked us through an installation of SUSE (no lowercase u now apparently) on an IBM laptop. The presenter was talking at the level of "these are several useful commands ... ls mkdir rmdir" ps did not rate a mention. I'm not being negative just pointing out what was on offer then. Presenter was responding to higher-level questions from the audience. The upside was a goodie bag including full 3-CD set of SUSE, a trial version of Novell on Linux, an amazingly good spread of food if being held at Excom in the City, and people who liked to talk shop during the breaks! I went along principally because I wanted to see how Linux is being portrayed in the marketplace and what Novell customers could expect to see. Not a lot of emphasis on the Novell side - certainly we did not get into NDS trees, etc. Hey, what can you fit into one day anyway :-) SUSE installed semi-cleanly onto the IBM laptop. The show stopper was the non-recognition of the NIC, the correction to which was explained and demonstrated to be viable - grab a different driver :-) Cheers, Denis _______________________________________________ PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au From r.steicke at bom.gov.au Mon Jul 26 19:49:03 2004 From: r.steicke at bom.gov.au (Russell Steicke) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 19:49:03 +0800 Subject: [plug] looking for fellow Gentoo users.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040726114903.GC1524@postoffice.wa.bom.gov.au> On Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 04:44:48PM +0800, Senectus . wrote: > I've just made an rsync server that should be available on the web.. > I'm needing two Gentoo users.. one on WAIX and one off WAIX... to see > if I can figure out how to lock it down to WAIX users only.. anyone > else out there? You probably don't need gentoo to test access to your rsync server, unless there's something special about gentoo and its package archives I don't know. You could get a shell account somewhere and test it yourself with plain command line rsync. For instance you can get a free shell account on metawire.org, hosted in the US somewhere. It runs openbsd, and doesn't have rsync installed, but you could install it in your home dir there, or find a free shell provider that does have rsync. -- Russell Steicke -- Fortune says: Life is full of concepts that are poorly defined. In fact, there are very few concepts that aren't. It's hard to think of any in non-technical fields. -- Daniel Kimberg From arie99 at ozemail.com.au Mon Jul 26 20:18:08 2004 From: arie99 at ozemail.com.au (Arie Hol) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 20:18:08 +0800 Subject: [plug] Lite HTTP server In-Reply-To: <20040726110407.5d7a1dff.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> Message-ID: <41056700.7486.231CE6@localhost> On 26 Jul 2004 at 11:04, Harry wrote: 8< ---------- snip ---------- >8 > I don't need Apache's size so can someone advise the lightest http and > ftp servers that I can use to keep the base install partition as small > as ? 8< ---------- snip ---------- >8 For a lightweight http server have a look at teepeedee, it's a micro web/ftp server. More info at : http://john.fremlin.de/programs/teepeedee/ >--------------------------------------------------------------< For the concert of life, nobody has a program. >--------------------------------------------------------------< From arie99 at ozemail.com.au Mon Jul 26 20:22:23 2004 From: arie99 at ozemail.com.au (Arie Hol) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 20:22:23 +0800 Subject: [plug] Perl Question In-Reply-To: <41047FE7.9090605@tehvand.com> Message-ID: <410567FF.31880.27012A@localhost> On 26 Jul 2004 at 11:52, Patrick Tehvand wrote: > Hi all. > > I may be making things to complex for myself but is there a way to join > two scalar values to give the name of a scalar? > > my brain says litteraly it should be: > > $ifvariable = $scalar1 . $scalar2; > if ($"$ifvariable" eq blah) { > 8< ----------- snip ------------>8 A wild guess here - I can't remember very much ATM. try ; $ifvariable .= $scalar2; Well I think that's how it goes !!! HTH >--------------------------------------------------------------< For the concert of life, nobody has a program. >--------------------------------------------------------------< From adam_ashley at softhome.net Mon Jul 26 20:35:35 2004 From: adam_ashley at softhome.net (Adam Ashley) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 20:35:35 +0800 Subject: [plug] looking for fellow Gentoo users.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1090845335.9558.0.camel@localhost> umm why not just use mirror.pacific.net.au's gentoo mirror? it comes in over waix for me on iinet and at work on westnet Adam On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 16:44 +0800, Senectus . wrote: > I've just made an rsync server that should be available on the web.. > I'm needing two Gentoo users.. one on WAIX and one off WAIX... to see > if I can figure out how to lock it down to WAIX users only.. anyone > else out there? From arie99 at ozemail.com.au Mon Jul 26 20:40:19 2004 From: arie99 at ozemail.com.au (Arie Hol) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 20:40:19 +0800 Subject: plug-newbies@plug [was: [plug] Hacker Nights (was ** July Workshop Notice **)] In-Reply-To: <20040726102049.GA21358@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <1090836379.2641.11.camel@hosrv01.jtajt.local> Message-ID: <41056C33.17336.376E40@localhost> On 26 Jul 2004 at 18:20, James Devenish wrote: 8< ----------snip -------------->8 > The idea of a plug-newbies list does have its merits (and don't worry -- > non-newbies would be subscribed). Segregation kills society, so what would it do for P.L.U.G. How can you hope to attract new members and Linux supporters if you want to segregate them at what is often/usually their first approach to P.L.U.G. I thought "WE" were a community of "Like minded Individuals" - but I guess I joined the wrong club. "Open software - closed minds" at work here - hummmmmph ! If you elitist @#^%&*'s want segregation why not set up secret list, and spare us newbies the crap in our mailboxes. All for one and one for all !!! From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Mon Jul 26 20:43:22 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 20:43:22 +0800 Subject: plug-newbies@plug [was: [plug] Hacker Nights (was ** July Workshop Notice **)] In-Reply-To: <41056C33.17336.376E40@localhost> References: <1090836379.2641.11.camel@hosrv01.jtajt.local> <41056C33.17336.376E40@localhost> Message-ID: <20040726124321.GA24422@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <41056C33.17336.376E40 at localhost> on Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 08:40:19PM +0800, Arie Hol wrote: > On 26 Jul 2004 at 18:20, James Devenish wrote: > 8< ----------snip -------------->8 > > The idea of a plug-newbies list does have its merits (and don't > > worry -- non-newbies would be subscribed). > > Segregation kills society, so what would it do for P.L.U.G. LOL I'm with Cameron -- status quo. But as Shayne points out, some "newbies" may themselves feel invited by such an approach. There are various open-source groups which use such an approach, too. I'm not rushing to set up any such list, though, as I don't think it's warranted for PLUG. From weirdo at tigris.org Tue Jul 27 09:33:37 2004 From: weirdo at tigris.org (Tim White) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 21:33:37 -0400 Subject: [plug] Spark POP3 Server Message-ID: <1090892016.864.8.camel@linmedia> I am away from home at the moment so my little used spark account is getting a few emails. It appears to me that the POP3 server doesn't work properly in that it doesn't appear to change to status of the emails to read. I am using evolution under Debian 3.0r1 (knoppix 3.4) and had set it up so that it left the emails on the server (spark) this appears to not be working as each time I check my mail my 2 messages sitting on spark redownload. Is anyone else using the spark pop3 server and experiancing this? Is it just the pop3 server(which appears to be cucipop)? Tim p.s. It doesn't appear to be doing this to all my messages just 2. From fostware at westnet.com.au Mon Jul 26 23:43:27 2004 From: fostware at westnet.com.au (Craig Foster) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 23:43:27 +0800 Subject: [plug] Spark POP3 Server In-Reply-To: <1090892016.864.8.camel@linmedia> Message-ID: <20040726154356.B070078AC@spark.plug.linux.org.au> The POP3 download list is client based... The server has no idea what you've looked at. IMAP however can mark a message read on client programs behalf... Regards, CraigF. > -----Original Message----- > From: plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au > [mailto:plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au] On Behalf Of Tim White > Sent: Tuesday, 27 July 2004 9:34 AM > To: plug at plug.linux.org.au > Subject: [plug] Spark POP3 Server > > I am away from home at the moment so my little used spark > account is getting a few emails. It appears to me that the > POP3 server doesn't work properly in that it doesn't appear > to change to status of the emails to read. I am using > evolution under Debian 3.0r1 (knoppix 3.4) and had set it up > so that it left the emails on the server (spark) this appears > to not be working as each time I check my mail my 2 messages > sitting on spark redownload. > Is anyone else using the spark pop3 server and experiancing this? > Is it just the pop3 server(which appears to be cucipop)? > Tim > p.s. It doesn't appear to be doing this to all my messages just 2. From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Tue Jul 27 00:09:14 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 00:09:14 +0800 Subject: [plug] Hacker Nights: getting organised In-Reply-To: <4104C643.8090205@Midland.RoyWeston.com.au> References: <20040725162158.GR2245@blackham.com.au> <4104C643.8090205@Midland.RoyWeston.com.au> Message-ID: <20040726160914.GA17519@cp.yi.org> Adrian Woodley wrote: > On a semi-related topic, I've been thinking about starting a > monthly Hacker Night. In the interests of getting things moving, I'm going to tentatively suggest a venue and day. Comments and suggestions are welcome (especially if you're thinking of coming). INAUGURAL PLUG HACKER NIGHT -- a.k.a. Third Thursday Meetings What: For people who know Linux well to get cool things done, in the company of other like-minded inviduals. (i.e., what Adrian said) *** If you're thinking of coming, please let me know, as we will have to get tables etc sorted out ahead of time, and it helps to have some idea of the numbers involved. Thank you. Time: Thursday, 19th August 2004. 7:30pm onwards. If this proves to be a success, we may make this a regular event, put it up on the PLUG web site, etc. Location: Central Chemical Consulting Pty Ltd, upstairs rooms Unit 1, 11 Narloo Street Malaga Approximate driving directions: Coming from the south, head north along Alexander Drive. Take the Reid Highway to Malaga Drive, turn left (north) a short distance to Beringarra Road (first on the right), then take the first left (Narloo Street). (There's a big blue sign on the building, but it probably won't be too visible at night.) Network arrangements: There are only a couple of network jacks upstairs, we will need PLUG's switch (and AP, cables, etc). Limited internet access will be available through our proxy. Regards, Cameron. From bernard at blackham.com.au Tue Jul 27 00:15:13 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 00:15:13 +0800 Subject: [plug] looking for fellow Gentoo users.... In-Reply-To: <20040726113230.GA22862@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <1090840642.15301.69.camel@localhost> <20040726113230.GA22862@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <20040726161513.GF2841@blackham.com.au> On Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 07:32:30PM +0800, James Devenish wrote: > In message <1090840642.15301.69.camel at localhost> > on Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 09:17:22PM +1000, Andrew Cowie wrote: > > On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 16:44 +0800, Senectus . wrote: > > > Gentoo user ... one on WAIX and one off WAIX... > > For what it's worth, I'm definitely off WAIX. > > Are you sure? Oops, that sounds rude. What I mean to say is: are you > sure this is correct for the particular host with which you will be > accessing the Perth rsync server? The reason I ask is that some non-WA > service providers have peering arrangements such that interstate sites > are routed as WAIX peers. At least from your last dialup IP, it appears to pass through WAIX thanks to Comindico: 3. gi0-1-9.perth.westnet.com.au 4. comindico.ix.waia.asn.au <-- ix.waia indicates waix 5. ser6-0.wsr01-ross-glb.comindico.com 6. f0-1-1.syd005.pacific.net.au 7. FastEthernet1-0-2.syd001.pacific.ne 8. g0-1-600.syd006.pacific.net.au The route from your end back to WAIX may well differ, but the routing table that Senectus will be using will probably be more closely linked with outbound routes from WAIX (as obtained in the above traceroute Perth -> Sydney). Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From senectus at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 05:31:59 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 05:31:59 +0800 Subject: [plug] Telstra get friendlier with Bill's boy's... Message-ID: Looks like they used the "Linux threat" to get some "discounts" from Microsoft. http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,10255954%5E15306%5E%5Enbv%5E,00.html I'm a fool for ever thinking Telstra might change its stripes... -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Tue Jul 27 08:22:07 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 08:22:07 +0800 Subject: plug-newbies@plug [was: [plug] Hacker Nights (was ** July Workshop Notice **)] In-Reply-To: <20040726102049.GA21358@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <1090836379.2641.11.camel@hosrv01.jtajt.local> <20040726102049.GA21358@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <4105A02F.9060107@smlintl.com.au> I don't actually think thats the case of fobbing newbies off. I for one and I'm sure a few others here have a situation where they aren't "experts" in and yet like me enjoy helping other "newbies" in sticky situations. I find that I often contribute to other forum type situations as well because I find information for me and I can offer information and I think most people are in the same boat. Regards, Marc James Devenish wrote: >In message <1090836379.2641.11.camel at hosrv01.jtajt.local> >on Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 06:06:19PM +0800, Jay Warwick wrote: > > >>Sounds to me like you are fobbing us newbies off. >> >> > >Don't worry --- there was also recently a suggestion to administratively >strangle non-newbie posters. > >The idea of a plug-newbies list does have its merits (and don't worry -- >non-newbies would be subscribed). However, I personally doubt that >there's "critical mass" to ensure that such partitioning would function >naturally under its own steam. If I recall correctly, June of this year >was basically a "newbie month" on this list. I assume it is just the ebb >and flow of what people happen to have on their plates. In contrast to >the current musing, I think in June there was a query about finding an >alternative for "experts" (as opposed to an alternative for "newbies"). >When the list traffic is high and biased strongly towards "newbie" or >"expert", partitioning seems to be preferred by some subscribers. But as >people will point out, this sort of cross-over (for want of a better >description) has benefits of its own. > >Note also that there have been already been various prior ideas about >having multiple lists, newsgroups, website fora or maybe IRC channels. >So far, I think the only one that has got off the ground is the >off-topic list. > > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Tue Jul 27 08:29:37 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 08:29:37 +0800 Subject: plug-newbies@plug [was: [plug] Hacker Nights (was ** July Workshop Notice **)] In-Reply-To: <20040726124321.GA24422@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <1090836379.2641.11.camel@hosrv01.jtajt.local> <41056C33.17336.376E40@localhost> <20040726124321.GA24422@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <4105A1F1.7010707@smlintl.com.au> Ariel I in no way agree with it but I thought you were being a bit emotional with that statement. I mean I don't or didn't take in any way a comment by what people said as saying they don't want to help or don't want to contribute to help others. I took it in the simplest thing that they want to get the "coders" together for open source growth. Now I know I'm not a coder so it would be ill informed of me to turn around and jump up and down and say I want to join. Thats not to say I don't want to learn to contribute further in that way. I've seen and been a part of other lists where you have a list that has install questions because "newbies" have install issues and another list that has everything else questions I like that idea since if I install Debian for instance I'm a complete stupid noob yet on Fedora or a Red Hat based systems I'm not that much of a noob. I can set most things up I just struggle with Debian thats all. Anways my 0.02 Marc James Devenish wrote: >In message <41056C33.17336.376E40 at localhost> >on Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 08:40:19PM +0800, Arie Hol wrote: > > >>On 26 Jul 2004 at 18:20, James Devenish wrote: >>8< ----------snip -------------->8 >> >> >>>The idea of a plug-newbies list does have its merits (and don't >>>worry -- non-newbies would be subscribed). >>> >>> >>Segregation kills society, so what would it do for P.L.U.G. >> >> > >LOL I'm with Cameron -- status quo. But as Shayne points out, some >"newbies" may themselves feel invited by such an approach. There are >various open-source groups which use such an approach, too. I'm not >rushing to set up any such list, though, as I don't think it's warranted >for PLUG. > > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Tue Jul 27 08:44:16 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 08:44:16 +0800 Subject: [plug] Dovecot issues Message-ID: <4105A560.2040304@smlintl.com.au> I haven't had a chance to look at google my question is that I seem to in my daily logs get error messasges from dovecot-auth claiming that uid < 100 however I still am able to use dovecot to retrieve emails and as a imap server. It works with squirrelmail and all of that so I'm wondering if anyoen has come across this message before. dovecot-auth: pam_succeed_if: requirement "uid < 100" not met by user "simon-g" dovecot-auth: pam_succeed_if: requirement "uid < 100" not met by user "marc-w" TIA Marc From onno at itmaze.com.au Tue Jul 27 08:51:41 2004 From: onno at itmaze.com.au (Onno Benschop) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 10:51:41 +1000 Subject: [plug] Re: plug-newbies@plug In-Reply-To: <4105A02F.9060107@smlintl.com.au> References: <1090836379.2641.11.camel@hosrv01.jtajt.local> <20040726102049.GA21358@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <4105A02F.9060107@smlintl.com.au> Message-ID: <1090889500.3257.15.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> On Tue, 2004-07-27 at 10:22, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > I for one and I'm sure a few others here have a situation where they > aren't "experts" in and yet like me enjoy helping other "newbies" in > sticky situations. I find that I often contribute to other forum type > situations as well because I find information for me and I can offer > information and I think most people are in the same boat. Well, while I understand and would like to encourage new users to assist other new users, it is in the mistakes that get made that learning occurs. If that learning is without the assistance of more experienced users, you may get to the situation where incorrect assistance is being provided. >From a quality of service perspective, both types of users win by keeping new and experienced users on the same list. While I understand that some new users might feel that their question is too silly or too simple, they should also realise that the experts also had to go through this phase, to become experts. An analogous example is that *every* pilot flying a plane, from Cessna to Jumbo had to complete their first flight. For some it was decades ago, and for some it was yesterday, but all had to pass through that gate. So, I'd like to encourage new users to continue to send their questions to the group and encourage existing more or less experienced users to assist them - this is what makes a community. Perhaps if you get frustrated by the silly questions, ignore them, and similarly, if you get shot down in flames, think about why you might have attracted the response you got. At the end of the day it is very easy for us Internet communities to forget that at the end of every email (well most ;-) is a human with feelings and emotions, good and bad days, warts and all. So, get to it, enjoy your community and go and use Linux! Onno Benschop Connected via Optus B3 at S27?52'30" - E151?16'25" (Millmerran, QLD) -- ()/)/)() ..ASCII for Onno.. |>>? ..EBCDIC for Onno.. --- -. -. --- ..Morse for Onno.. Proudly supported by Skipper Trucks, Highway1, Concept AV, Sony Central, Dalcon ITmaze - ABN: 56 178 057 063 - ph: 04 1219 8888 - onno at itmaze dot com dot au From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Tue Jul 27 09:03:17 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 09:03:17 +0800 Subject: [plug] Ignore dovecot Message-ID: <4105A9D5.1060602@smlintl.com.au> I've just had a search on the fedora mailing list. It is just Dovecot being very verbose with its logs is the quote from them. Also for those people wanting to try fedora my suggestion stick with fedora core 1 I run core 2 but unless you really really wanna have fun fixing certain things you will be better of sticking with core 1. Regards, Marc From griffinster at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 09:19:02 2004 From: griffinster at gmail.com (Chris Griffin) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 09:19:02 +0800 Subject: [plug] Re: plug-newbies@plug In-Reply-To: <1090889500.3257.15.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> References: <1090836379.2641.11.camel@hosrv01.jtajt.local> <20040726102049.GA21358@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <4105A02F.9060107@smlintl.com.au> <1090889500.3257.15.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> Message-ID: Well said Onno :) On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 10:51:41 +1000, Onno Benschop wrote: > On Tue, 2004-07-27 at 10:22, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > I for one and I'm sure a few others here have a situation where they > > aren't "experts" in and yet like me enjoy helping other "newbies" in > > sticky situations. I find that I often contribute to other forum type > > situations as well because I find information for me and I can offer > > information and I think most people are in the same boat. > > Well, while I understand and would like to encourage new users to assist > other new users, it is in the mistakes that get made that learning > occurs. If that learning is without the assistance of more experienced > users, you may get to the situation where incorrect assistance is being > provided. > > >From a quality of service perspective, both types of users win by > keeping new and experienced users on the same list. > > While I understand that some new users might feel that their question is > too silly or too simple, they should also realise that the experts also > had to go through this phase, to become experts. An analogous example is > that *every* pilot flying a plane, from Cessna to Jumbo had to complete > their first flight. For some it was decades ago, and for some it was > yesterday, but all had to pass through that gate. > > So, I'd like to encourage new users to continue to send their questions > to the group and encourage existing more or less experienced users to > assist them - this is what makes a community. Perhaps if you get > frustrated by the silly questions, ignore them, and similarly, if you > get shot down in flames, think about why you might have attracted the > response you got. > > At the end of the day it is very easy for us Internet communities to > forget that at the end of every email (well most ;-) is a human with > feelings and emotions, good and bad days, warts and all. > > So, get to it, enjoy your community and go and use Linux! > > Onno Benschop > > Connected via Optus B3 at S27?52'30" - E151?16'25" (Millmerran, QLD) > -- > ()/)/)() ..ASCII for Onno.. > |>>? ..EBCDIC for Onno.. > --- -. -. --- ..Morse for Onno.. > > Proudly supported by Skipper Trucks, Highway1, Concept AV, Sony Central, Dalcon > ITmaze - ABN: 56 178 057 063 - ph: 04 1219 8888 - onno at itmaze dot com dot au > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Tue Jul 27 12:14:51 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 12:14:51 +0800 Subject: [plug] crossover office Message-ID: <4105D6BB.6000801@smlintl.com.au> Well just tried installing quickbooks pro 2003 using crossover office. Didn't get very far at all the front page and bang couldn't read the fonts. Now I gotta step through the wine installation and start filing the bug reports. Regards, Marc From Milan.Pospisil at swantafe.wa.edu.au Tue Jul 27 13:40:20 2004 From: Milan.Pospisil at swantafe.wa.edu.au (Milan Pospisil) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 13:40:20 +0800 Subject: [plug] Xandros OS Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, Joel Johnson wrote: >> Just noticed that the latest Australian Developer mag has a copy of Xandros Desktop OS on the cover CD and was wondering >>if anyone has had a play with Xandros in the past and what they thought of it? >> >> Regards >> >> Joel > shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au 07/26/04 02:36pm wrote:> >Yes. Xandros is marvelous. >Its a custom tweaked debian that fits together really tightly. Its kde >based, and the gnome/other apps are tweaked to take advantage of KDE (Ie, >mozilla and Open Office default to k-printer, etc). You might be slightly >disturbed by some of the windows-isms in it, but basically whats happening >is xandros succeeds where lycoris/lindows/etc fail... ie its not retarded. >The crossover office integration is only in the pay-for version, so wont >be on the cover. I'm told it works beautifully, giving a true windows >alternative. >I'm moving back to it, because its as easy to install as knoppix (the >autodetection is fab) and not as gonzo as knoppix. >Give it to yer mother. >Shayne O'Neill. http://www.perthimc.asn.au I second that, Shane! However, there is one more thing worth mentioning: Unlike SuSE or Mandrake Xandros does not come with a firewall installed. That has to be taken from the Application CD (which is supplied only with the pay for version) or downloaded from the net. Very much recomended to do so IMHO, because when it comes to security you do not want to imitate a 'doze box even vaguely. Regards Milan Pospisil From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Tue Jul 27 13:49:16 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 13:49:16 +0800 Subject: [plug] Telstra get friendlier with Bill's boy's... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4105ECDC.4090908@postnewspapers.com.au> Senectus . wrote: > Looks like they used the "Linux threat" to get some "discounts" from Microsoft. > http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,10255954%5E15306%5E%5Enbv%5E,00.html > > I'm a fool for ever thinking Telstra might change its stripes... I don't doubt that they will use Linux on some servers and perhaps call centre terminals - that's what they were testing with, and it does make sense. I wouldn't be surprised if talk of using OpenOffice is genuine, too. Nonetheless, part of the motivation for all this will be to be able to remind MS that they are willing to jump ship (or try) if MS gets too pushy. They probably also want to force MS into selling parts of Office at attractive prices instead of forcing Telstra to buy the whole bundle, for example. Frankly, if I was in their position I'd probably be doing the same thing. I'd be using things like Linux and OO.o where appropriate, and talking loudly about using them where I didn't think they'd be suitable in the hopes of forcing discounts and better deals from my other suppliers. -- Craig Ringer From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Tue Jul 27 14:34:36 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 14:34:36 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backup's Message-ID: <4105F77C.80305@smlintl.com.au> If I wanted to do backup's to a dvd drive at a pre-determined time obvioulsy I would use a cron job with a dvd but would it be in a script or just entered into the crontab. Also would I use dd or some other method for backup's solely btw it has to all be bash based can't be gui because its a server and we don't have x on it. TIA Marc From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Tue Jul 27 15:10:46 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 15:10:46 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backups In-Reply-To: <4105F77C.80305@smlintl.com.au> References: <4105F77C.80305@smlintl.com.au> Message-ID: <20040727071045.GA25648@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <4105F77C.80305 at smlintl.com.au> on Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 02:34:36PM +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > If I wanted to do [backups] to a DVD drive at a pre-determined time > obviously I would use a cron job with a DVD but would it be in a > script or just entered into the crontab? This really need only depend on your administrative tendencies and the complexity of the task. Generally, it would be better to make a nice script in a nice file of its own, and simply invoke that file from a cron job (rather than entering everything on one line in the crontab). This also means that you can edit, backup, and modify your script independently of cron (i.e. you can test the backup or do an unscheduled backup easily). > Also, would I use dd or some other method for [backups]? (I think this is somewhat of a frequently-asked question, so there will be further information in the list archives and via Google.) This question about dd can be considered in the general case (i.e. not linked to DVDs), in which you'd have to ask yourself whether `dd` will produce a self-consistent backup. If the disk partition is in use for writing (e.g. databases, log files), then this is unlikely. But depending on the filesystem and nature of your files, it *might* still be acceptable, for *your* purposes, to use dd (even if a bit of `fsck`ing is necessary). But if you need to be careful, you'll have to take down your daemons, sync, take a filesystem snapshot, then do a backup using the snapshot. This sort of thing is mentioned in the list archives. This is in a sense a "grey area" and people do whatever is gives the best tradeoff between practicality and recoverability. Something like `dump` is generally better, because you can restore files on a arbitrary basis onto arbitrary partitions (whereas `dd` limits you to restoring an entire filesystem onto an identical partition). There are various suggestions and examples in the list archives. > it has to all be bash based No worries -- this will not limit what you can achieve, except to say that you won't be able use GUI apps. It's pretty rare for anyone to use GUI apps within cron anyway. Note that there may be two "phases" for your backup process: one to generate a backup stream or "image" for your DVD, and another phase to burn the DVD. Both of these can be done without GUIs. > can't be GUI because [it's] a server and we don't have X on it. Just as a point of clarification: you don't necessarily "have to have X installed" on a server just to use X11 programmes. Since X11 is inherently based on a client-server model, you can use your own /workstation/ to interact with your server's X11 programmes -- you don't need to have a display or keyboard attached to your server. You /will/, however, need to install a set of X11 software libraries on your server. But at least you don't have to install an "X11 server" on your server -- you just use your workstation as the X11 server. From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Tue Jul 27 15:19:18 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 15:19:18 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backups In-Reply-To: <20040727071045.GA25648@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <4105F77C.80305@smlintl.com.au> <20040727071045.GA25648@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <410601F6.5010109@smlintl.com.au> I never thought I would answer questions I never asked thats a mint reply. Thanks heaps for that James thats just clarified a hell of a lot of questions that I never thought to ask or even thought about. Marc James Devenish wrote: >In message <4105F77C.80305 at smlintl.com.au> >on Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 02:34:36PM +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > >>If I wanted to do [backups] to a DVD drive at a pre-determined time >>obviously I would use a cron job with a DVD but would it be in a >>script or just entered into the crontab? >> >> > >This really need only depend on your administrative tendencies and the >complexity of the task. Generally, it would be better to make a nice >script in a nice file of its own, and simply invoke that file from a >cron job (rather than entering everything on one line in the crontab). >This also means that you can edit, backup, and modify your script >independently of cron (i.e. you can test the backup or do an unscheduled >backup easily). > > > >>Also, would I use dd or some other method for [backups]? >> >> > >(I think this is somewhat of a frequently-asked question, so there will >be further information in the list archives and via Google.) This >question about dd can be considered in the general case (i.e. not linked >to DVDs), in which you'd have to ask yourself whether `dd` will produce >a self-consistent backup. If the disk partition is in use for writing >(e.g. databases, log files), then this is unlikely. But depending on the >filesystem and nature of your files, it *might* still be acceptable, for >*your* purposes, to use dd (even if a bit of `fsck`ing is necessary). >But if you need to be careful, you'll have to take down your daemons, >sync, take a filesystem snapshot, then do a backup using the snapshot. >This sort of thing is mentioned in the list archives. This is in a sense >a "grey area" and people do whatever is gives the best tradeoff between >practicality and recoverability. Something like `dump` is generally >better, because you can restore files on a arbitrary basis onto >arbitrary partitions (whereas `dd` limits you to restoring an entire >filesystem onto an identical partition). There are various suggestions >and examples in the list archives. > > > >>it has to all be bash based >> >> > >No worries -- this will not limit what you can achieve, except to say >that you won't be able use GUI apps. It's pretty rare for anyone to use >GUI apps within cron anyway. Note that there may be two "phases" for >your backup process: one to generate a backup stream or "image" for your >DVD, and another phase to burn the DVD. Both of these can be done >without GUIs. > > > >>can't be GUI because [it's] a server and we don't have X on it. >> >> > >Just as a point of clarification: you don't necessarily "have to have X >installed" on a server just to use X11 programmes. Since X11 is >inherently based on a client-server model, you can use your own >/workstation/ to interact with your server's X11 programmes -- you don't >need to have a display or keyboard attached to your server. You /will/, >however, need to install a set of X11 software libraries on your server. >But at least you don't have to install an "X11 server" on your server -- >you just use your workstation as the X11 server. > > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Tue Jul 27 15:39:13 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 15:39:13 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backups In-Reply-To: <20040727071045.GA25648@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <4105F77C.80305@smlintl.com.au> <20040727071045.GA25648@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <410606A1.2070906@postnewspapers.com.au> James Devenish wrote: >>Also, would I use dd or some other method for [backups]? > > This > question about dd can be considered in the general case (i.e. not linked > to DVDs), in which you'd have to ask yourself whether `dd` will produce > a self-consistent backup. If the disk partition is in use for writing > (e.g. databases, log files), then this is unlikely. But depending on the > filesystem and nature of your files, it *might* still be acceptable, for > *your* purposes, to use dd (even if a bit of `fsck`ing is necessary). > But if you need to be careful, you'll have to take down your daemons, > sync, take a filesystem snapshot, then do a backup using the snapshot. > This sort of thing is mentioned in the list archives. This is in a sense > a "grey area" and people do whatever is gives the best tradeoff between > practicality and recoverability. In general, I would tend to advise you NOT to use dd unless you have good reasons to do so. For regular backups, I do not think it is a good idea at all. Imagine if you discovered that all your recent backups had the same subtle filesystem corruption as your main filesystem when you when to recover a file... dd is also very inefficient for backups, because it'll happily copy all the space the filesystem has marked as 'free'. That space is likely to contain old, deleted data which might well not be very compressible - or it might contain data you'd prefer was NOT archived anywhere. To top things off, to safely make a copy of a filesystem with dd you must either unmount the filesystem or remount it read only. This means you can't be doing much else with it at the time, and it's very difficult to automate reliably. The alternative, using dd to clone the filesystem while it's mounted read/write and in use, is a recipe for massively corrupt backups. If you are using something like LVM, then you can reasonably safely clone a filesystem that's mounted read/write by using an LVM snapshot. You will still need to perform filesystem recovery if you restore it later, but it should not need much and at worst a few files may be corrupt if they were being written to as the snapshot was taken. Without LVM, you've got to be crazy. You may have guessed by now that my attitude to using dd for backups is "just don't." > Something like `dump` is generally > better, because you can restore files on a arbitrary basis onto > arbitrary partitions (whereas `dd` limits you to restoring an entire > filesystem onto an identical partition). There are various suggestions > and examples in the list archives. The time honoured approach is using an archiver like tar, pax, or cpio. This is much safer but can be somewhat slower than image based backups. (It can also be a lot faster if you're backing up a mostly empty volume or only doing incremental backups). In general, I think it should be considered the default approach for backups, to be used unless you have a good reason to choose something else. Another increasingly common option is to use backups on large random-access media like hard disks, storing a normal filesystem on it. The backup is then updated periodically, rather than rewritten entirely. IMHO this is good for rather large chunks of data that change infrequently and don't need to be backed up too regularly. If you're writing to DVD, I think that an archiver is the safest choice. Creating a UDF or ISO9660 image with the files on it directly may not preserve all file metadata. Using 'dd' to create an image to archive isn't overly safe - one scratch, and you could potentially lose the entire filesystem image. Unfortunately, IIRC compressed archives suffer from the same problem to some extent, so ideally I'd archive my data uncompressed or compress it before, rather than after, archiving. That way an unreadable block will result in, at worst, one unusable file instead of potentially large chunks of the archive being lost. A quick aside: Does anybody here know of a tool that can create compressed-then-archived archives, similar to what the Zip tool does under DOS? I'd be looking for something that fully supported all the UNIX file permissions, extended attributes, etc but knew how to run each file through gzip before archiving it. I'm not too comfortable with tar's -z option, because AFAIK gzip's compression deals very poorly with corruption or unreadable blocks, and a bad block could render the rest of the archive unreadable. -- Craig Ringer From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Tue Jul 27 15:49:10 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 15:49:10 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backups In-Reply-To: <410606A1.2070906@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <4105F77C.80305@smlintl.com.au> <20040727071045.GA25648@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <410606A1.2070906@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <20040727074910.GA26739@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <410606A1.2070906 at postnewspapers.com.au> on Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 03:39:13PM +0800, Craig Ringer wrote: > The time honoured approach is using an archiver like tar, pax, or cpio. Absolutely. One note about `dump` recovery (merely as an example to contrast against pax, tar, and cpio): it restores inodes, folder timestamps, driver nodes, ACLs, etc, which tar won't necessarily do. But the obvious downside is that `dump` tools are filesystem-specific and the format is not particularly 'transparent and portable' in the same way as others. From nick at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Tue Jul 27 15:53:20 2004 From: nick at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (Nick Bannon) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 15:53:20 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backups In-Reply-To: <410606A1.2070906@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <4105F77C.80305@smlintl.com.au> <20040727071045.GA25648@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <410606A1.2070906@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <20040727075320.GE238693@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> On Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 03:39:13PM +0800, Craig Ringer wrote: > A quick aside: Does anybody here know of a tool that can create > compressed-then-archived archives, similar to what the Zip tool does > under DOS? I'd be looking for something that fully supported all the [...] That'd be "zip" (Info-Zip), that handy cross platform tool that happens to have a DOS port as well as the PK-ware implementation. ::-) "unzip -X" is needed for ownership, but basic permissions and symlinks seem to get restored by default. Nick. -- Nick Bannon | "I made this letter longer than usual because nick-sig at rcpt.to | I lack the time to make it shorter." - Pascal From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Tue Jul 27 16:00:56 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 16:00:56 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backups In-Reply-To: <20040727074910.GA26739@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <4105F77C.80305@smlintl.com.au> <20040727071045.GA25648@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <410606A1.2070906@postnewspapers.com.au> <20040727074910.GA26739@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <41060BB8.7030507@postnewspapers.com.au> James Devenish wrote: > In message <410606A1.2070906 at postnewspapers.com.au> > on Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 03:39:13PM +0800, Craig Ringer wrote: > >>The time honoured approach is using an archiver like tar, pax, or cpio. > > Absolutely. One note about `dump` recovery (merely as an example to > contrast against pax, tar, and cpio): it restores inodes, folder > timestamps, driver nodes, ACLs, etc, which tar won't necessarily do. If you're worried about ACLs you should probably be using star, which WILL restore them. IIRC recent pax versions will too. I don't know about folder timestamps, and I can't imagine any archiver being able to restore inode numbers without some serious low level filesystem magic and special support from the filesystem driver. Any decent archiver should be able to handle device nodes without fuss, though. Another issue is that many of them don't restore hard links, and it's especially dificult to do so in incremental backups or backups of a subtree of the filesystem. > But the obvious downside is that `dump` tools are filesystem-specific > and the format is not particularly 'transparent and portable' in the > same way as others. Indeed. I've never been too sure about using filesystem dumpers, in part because of issues that they might be a wee bit /too/ faithful and possibly reproduce some forms of FS corruption. I'm also not sure how easy it is to do a partial restore, or to restore into a working directory or temporary volume. It doesn't help that I don't really know enough about them either. I think I'd prefer to use a `dump` program, if availible for the filesystem type I was working on, in preference to `dd`, though. -- Craig Ringer From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Tue Jul 27 16:04:26 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 16:04:26 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backups In-Reply-To: <410606A1.2070906@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <4105F77C.80305@smlintl.com.au> <20040727071045.GA25648@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <410606A1.2070906@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <41060C8A.6030705@smlintl.com.au> I've just been doing heaps of reading up and the majority of people are saying don't use tar because as its getting fed through programs such as tar and cpio it alters file systems if they are mounted as read write. The people at the dump web site are saying that dump does not alter file system and to use dump to create backups. I'm starting to get real confused real easy maybe its just me. I've always used tar to move stuff around apart from the 2GB file size limit but thats just how I set it up I think. Anyways do I have to mount the file system as read only backup then unmoutn and remount it as read and write. As I said this sits on 24/7 granted its not used constantly and I'm not worried about but its just a situation where I don't want to lose data and the just in case a murphy's stupid laws is what concerns me. TIA Marc Craig Ringer wrote: > James Devenish wrote: > >>> Also, would I use dd or some other method for [backups]? >> >> >> This >> question about dd can be considered in the general case (i.e. not linked >> to DVDs), in which you'd have to ask yourself whether `dd` will produce >> a self-consistent backup. If the disk partition is in use for writing >> (e.g. databases, log files), then this is unlikely. But depending on the >> filesystem and nature of your files, it *might* still be acceptable, for >> *your* purposes, to use dd (even if a bit of `fsck`ing is necessary). >> But if you need to be careful, you'll have to take down your daemons, >> sync, take a filesystem snapshot, then do a backup using the snapshot. >> This sort of thing is mentioned in the list archives. This is in a sense >> a "grey area" and people do whatever is gives the best tradeoff between >> practicality and recoverability. > > > In general, I would tend to advise you NOT to use dd unless you have > good reasons to do so. For regular backups, I do not think it is a > good idea at all. Imagine if you discovered that all your recent > backups had the same subtle filesystem corruption as your main > filesystem when you when to recover a file... > > dd is also very inefficient for backups, because it'll happily copy > all the space the filesystem has marked as 'free'. That space is > likely to contain old, deleted data which might well not be very > compressible - or it might contain data you'd prefer was NOT archived > anywhere. > > To top things off, to safely make a copy of a filesystem with dd you > must either unmount the filesystem or remount it read only. This means > you can't be doing much else with it at the time, and it's very > difficult to automate reliably. The alternative, using dd to clone the > filesystem while it's mounted read/write and in use, is a recipe for > massively corrupt backups. If you are using something like LVM, then > you can reasonably safely clone a filesystem that's mounted read/write > by using an LVM snapshot. You will still need to perform filesystem > recovery if you restore it later, but it should not need much and at > worst a few files may be corrupt if they were being written to as the > snapshot was taken. Without LVM, you've got to be crazy. > > You may have guessed by now that my attitude to using dd for backups > is "just don't." > >> Something like `dump` is generally >> better, because you can restore files on a arbitrary basis onto >> arbitrary partitions (whereas `dd` limits you to restoring an entire >> filesystem onto an identical partition). There are various suggestions >> and examples in the list archives. > > > The time honoured approach is using an archiver like tar, pax, or > cpio. This is much safer but can be somewhat slower than image based > backups. (It can also be a lot faster if you're backing up a mostly > empty volume or only doing incremental backups). In general, I think > it should be considered the default approach for backups, to be used > unless you have a good reason to choose something else. > > Another increasingly common option is to use backups on large > random-access media like hard disks, storing a normal filesystem on > it. The backup is then updated periodically, rather than rewritten > entirely. IMHO this is good for rather large chunks of data that > change infrequently and don't need to be backed up too regularly. > > If you're writing to DVD, I think that an archiver is the safest > choice. Creating a UDF or ISO9660 image with the files on it directly > may not preserve all file metadata. Using 'dd' to create an image to > archive isn't overly safe - one scratch, and you could potentially > lose the entire filesystem image. Unfortunately, IIRC compressed > archives suffer from the same problem to some extent, so ideally I'd > archive my data uncompressed or compress it before, rather than after, > archiving. That way an unreadable block will result in, at worst, one > unusable file instead of potentially large chunks of the archive being > lost. > > A quick aside: Does anybody here know of a tool that can create > compressed-then-archived archives, similar to what the Zip tool does > under DOS? I'd be looking for something that fully supported all the > UNIX file permissions, extended attributes, etc but knew how to run > each file through gzip before archiving it. I'm not too comfortable > with tar's -z option, because AFAIK gzip's compression deals very > poorly with corruption or unreadable blocks, and a bad block could > render the rest of the archive unreadable. > > -- > Craig Ringer > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Tue Jul 27 16:05:24 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 16:05:24 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backups In-Reply-To: <41060BB8.7030507@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <4105F77C.80305@smlintl.com.au> <20040727071045.GA25648@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <410606A1.2070906@postnewspapers.com.au> <20040727074910.GA26739@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <41060BB8.7030507@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <20040727080524.GA27797@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <41060BB8.7030507 at postnewspapers.com.au> on Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 04:00:56PM +0800, Craig Ringer wrote: > Another issue is that many of them don't restore hard links, and it's > especially dificult to do so in incremental backups or backups of a > subtree of the filesystem. Doh! I was going to mention that as a `dump`-style feature but thought twice about it for some reason. I should have mentioned incremental backups in the same breath, but I forgot. > Indeed. I've never been too sure about using filesystem dumpers, in > part because of issues that they might be a wee bit /too/ faithful and > possibly reproduce some forms of FS corruption. I'd not assumed it was any more or less of a problem than high-level archivers (e.g. if you have overlapping blocks or corrupted file lengths, those are going to affect high-level archivers, too). > I'm also not sure how easy it is to do a partial restore, or to > restore into a working directory or temporary volume. Just FYI, I don't recall any problems with either of those. > I think I'd prefer to use a `dump` program, if availible for the > filesystem type I was working on, in preference to `dd`, though. LOL From russ at powerstech.com Tue Jul 27 16:04:36 2004 From: russ at powerstech.com (Russ Powers) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 16:04:36 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backups In-Reply-To: <410606A1.2070906@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <4105F77C.80305@smlintl.com.au> <20040727071045.GA25648@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <410606A1.2070906@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <200407271604.36578.russ@powerstech.com> On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 03:39 pm, Craig Ringer wrote: > A quick aside: Does anybody here know of a tool that can create > compressed-then-archived archives, similar to what the Zip tool does > under DOS? I'd be looking for something that fully supported all the > UNIX file permissions, extended attributes, etc but knew how to run each > file through gzip before archiving it. I'm not too comfortable with > tar's -z option, because AFAIK gzip's compression deals very poorly with > corruption or unreadable blocks, and a bad block could render the rest > of the archive unreadable. DAR: http://dar.linux.free.fr/ And the documentation is very good. > > -- > Craig Ringer > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -- Regards, Russ From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Tue Jul 27 16:12:46 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 16:12:46 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backups In-Reply-To: <20040727075320.GE238693@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> References: <4105F77C.80305@smlintl.com.au> <20040727071045.GA25648@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <410606A1.2070906@postnewspapers.com.au> <20040727075320.GE238693@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <41060E7E.7010200@postnewspapers.com.au> Nick Bannon wrote: > That'd be "zip" (Info-Zip), that handy cross platform tool that happens > to have a DOS port as well as the PK-ware implementation. ::-) > > "unzip -X" is needed for ownership, but basic permissions and symlinks > seem to get restored by default. Interesting. I'd be a needing to keep ACLs and other extended attributes as well though, which is something many of the UNIX-native archivers can't even handle. I don't see any indication that Info-Zip can either. I'm not currently using ACLs very heavily, but I'm increasingly getting frustrated with the *NIX permissions model (just let me put a group in a group, dammit!) and expect my use of ACLs to increase. Especially once NetATalk gets decent ACL support. ACLs can easily bloat into unmanagable messes, but well used I'm increasingly suspect they'll make life a LOT easier than the current set-up. It's not like our needs are even all that complex... -- Craig Ringer From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Tue Jul 27 16:11:09 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 16:11:09 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backups In-Reply-To: <41060C8A.6030705@smlintl.com.au> References: <4105F77C.80305@smlintl.com.au> <20040727071045.GA25648@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <410606A1.2070906@postnewspapers.com.au> <41060C8A.6030705@smlintl.com.au> Message-ID: <20040727081109.GB27797@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <41060C8A.6030705 at smlintl.com.au> on Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 04:04:26PM +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > The people at the Pretend you'd asked "what music should I like"? People will tell you competing things about what /they/ like, but in the end it'll be up to you to find your own comfort. Pick a friend and just do what that person says for the time being ;-) From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Tue Jul 27 16:22:16 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 16:22:16 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backups In-Reply-To: <41060C8A.6030705@smlintl.com.au> References: <4105F77C.80305@smlintl.com.au> <20040727071045.GA25648@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <410606A1.2070906@postnewspapers.com.au> <41060C8A.6030705@smlintl.com.au> Message-ID: <410610B8.6050804@postnewspapers.com.au> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Anyways do I have to mount the file system as read only backup then > unmoutn and remount it as read and write. As I said this sits on 24/7 > granted its not used constantly and I'm not worried about but its just a > situation where I don't want to lose data and the just in case a > murphy's stupid laws is what concerns me. OK. What, exactly, are you trying to accomplish. There are several different things people tend to talk about under the heading 'backups', and I'm not entirely clear on what you're after. This would seem to be an important thing to estabilish before going into too much detail about the various availible tools. Common "backup" tasks include: - Regular backups of frequently changing information on a system. Often done nightly or sometimes weekly.. - Incremental backups, where only information that changed since the last backup is backed up. - Archival style backups, where often large chunks of data are being backed up in preparation to either delete the originals to save space, or to cease backing up the originals to free up capacity on regular backups. - System snapshots, where the goal is to make a clone of the entire OS and data with the intent of having something that can be restored in a total loss situation (system crack, server theft, fire, etc). A system snapshot is sometimes being taken with the intent of immediately restoring it to another system so that that other system can be used as a cold spare/warm spare. IMHO all of the above are a good idea. I like to use differential backups myself (though I'm currently using daily full backups of reguarly changing content), combined with off-site archival of older data and regular system snapshots. Nonetheless, it'd be helpful to know what you're currently trying to achieve. -- Craig Ringer From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Tue Jul 27 16:25:38 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 16:25:38 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backups In-Reply-To: <410610B8.6050804@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <4105F77C.80305@smlintl.com.au> <20040727071045.GA25648@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <410606A1.2070906@postnewspapers.com.au> <41060C8A.6030705@smlintl.com.au> <410610B8.6050804@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <41061182.4070408@smlintl.com.au> Sorry to not clarify since I've "never" backed up network data under linux before. I would like full whole harddrive back up once a week for the sake of if the system all goes to the preverbial out house. I would also like nightly incremental backups with one weekly backup of the following folders being the "usual" ones and then rotate those over a weekly basis e.g. keep for 1 week or maybe longer I don't know. /etc/ /home /workdir /var Regards, Marc Craig Ringer wrote: > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > >> Anyways do I have to mount the file system as read only backup then >> unmoutn and remount it as read and write. As I said this sits on >> 24/7 granted its not used constantly and I'm not worried about but >> its just a situation where I don't want to lose data and the just in >> case a murphy's stupid laws is what concerns me. > > > OK. What, exactly, are you trying to accomplish. There are several > different things people tend to talk about under the heading > 'backups', and I'm not entirely clear on what you're after. This would > seem to be an important thing to estabilish before going into too much > detail about the various availible tools. > > Common "backup" tasks include: > > - Regular backups of frequently changing information on a system. > Often done nightly or sometimes weekly.. > > - Incremental backups, where only information that changed since the > last backup is backed up. > > - Archival style backups, where often large chunks of data are being > backed up in preparation to either delete the originals to save space, > or to cease backing up the originals to free up capacity on regular > backups. > > - System snapshots, where the goal is to make a clone of the entire OS > and data with the intent of having something that can be restored in a > total loss situation (system crack, server theft, fire, etc). A system > snapshot is sometimes being taken with the intent of immediately > restoring it to another system so that that other system can be used > as a cold spare/warm spare. > > IMHO all of the above are a good idea. I like to use differential > backups myself (though I'm currently using daily full backups of > reguarly changing content), combined with off-site archival of older > data and regular system snapshots. > > Nonetheless, it'd be helpful to know what you're currently trying to > achieve. > > -- > Craig Ringer > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From nick at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Tue Jul 27 16:27:29 2004 From: nick at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (Nick Bannon) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 16:27:29 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backups In-Reply-To: <41060C8A.6030705@smlintl.com.au> References: <4105F77C.80305@smlintl.com.au> <20040727071045.GA25648@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <410606A1.2070906@postnewspapers.com.au> <41060C8A.6030705@smlintl.com.au> Message-ID: <20040727082728.GA268084@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> On Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 04:04:26PM +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > I've just been doing heaps of reading up and the majority of people are > saying don't use tar because as its getting fed through programs such as > tar and cpio it alters file systems if they are mounted as read write. > The people at the dump web site are saying that dump does not alter file [...] By default, most UNIX filesystems record when each file was last accessed. If that's always "last night, by the backup script", that's not as useful. Any program that reads the files on disc will do that though, it's not a big deal except to say that dump sidesteps it by reading the filesystem directly. You can "mount -o remount,noatime /", then "mount -o remount,atime /" to disable it temporarily, if you like, but it may not be important to you. [...] > granted its not used constantly and I'm not worried about but its just a > situation where I don't want to lose data and the just in case a > murphy's stupid laws is what concerns me. The only way you can have some peace of mind there is, every so often, to pretend that you've just lost your hard disc and to test a restore using only your backup copy. Nick. -- Nick Bannon | "I made this letter longer than usual because nick-sig at rcpt.to | I lack the time to make it shorter." - Pascal From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Tue Jul 27 17:42:58 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 17:42:58 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backups In-Reply-To: <41061182.4070408@smlintl.com.au> References: <4105F77C.80305@smlintl.com.au> <20040727071045.GA25648@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <410606A1.2070906@postnewspapers.com.au> <41060C8A.6030705@smlintl.com.au> <410610B8.6050804@postnewspapers.com.au> <41061182.4070408@smlintl.com.au> Message-ID: <410623A2.2060604@postnewspapers.com.au> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Sorry to not clarify since I've "never" backed up network data under > linux before. No worries. That's why I asked ;-) > I would like full whole harddrive back up once a week for the sake of if > the system all goes to the preverbial out house. [note: reading my own reply, it becomes clear I'm not good at clear and simple answers. Sorry. I lack the time to edit this down right now, so I hope it's some use to you as-is. Please forgive all the assumptions.]. OK, so we're talking a full system snapshot there. Any idea what media you'll be using for that - do you want to try to fit it on a DVD, or will you be using tapes or perhaps hard disks? My personal inclination with those backups is toward using something like LVM (Linux Volume Manager) to take a filesystem snapshot, then copying the snapshot onto the backup media as individual files.. This won't work so well for a DVD or tape backup though, I'm used to using SATA disks for my system snapshots. For DVD or tape (ie non-random-access media), my inclination would be to use an uncompressed (if possible) `tar` or `star` archive. It's slow for partial restores and searches, but pretty quick for a full restore, and it's going to retain almost all info on the system. James' suggestion of `dump` also bears thinking about here. James: is `dump` capable of dumping a consistent point-in-time copy of a filesystem that's in read/write use, or must measures like read-only remounts or LVM snapshots be used? Note that unless you're using something like LVM that permits you to make a 'frozen in time' view of a filesystem while continuing to work on it, you'll probably need to bring most services down to make a consistent system snapshot. > I would also like nightly incremental backups with one weekly backup of > the following folders being the "usual" ones and then rotate those over > a weekly basis e.g. keep for 1 week or maybe longer I don't know. > > /etc/ /home /workdir /var ... and some periodic data and configuration backups. This is a classic case for `tar`, `pax`, or `cpio` (with `tar` being the most common among Linux users it seems) and I'd use one of those unless I had a good reason to do otherwise. There should be no problem with creating DVD images containing tar files and using those for your backups. You also have the option of just storing individual files on your DVD images, but you may run into "fun" with permissions, deep directory trees, and long file names with this approach. If you're thinking about differential or incremental backups intead, then `dump` might again be a reasonable option, but I don't know enough about it to say. I've realised that one aspect of this that might need clarifying is what all these different backup methods we're talking about /are/. We've covered what the differences in functionality are, but not so much anything else. The main classes of backups we've discussed are: - File-by-file copies - Archives - Filesystem images - Filesystem dumps Don't worry if not all of this makes sense. (a) I'm rather bad at explaining things clearly, and (b) you probably don't need to know it all in detail anyway. If you're interested, though, I hope this info helps clarify what we've been talking about with `dump`, `dd`, `tar`, etc. A file by file copy is the simplest. It's a backup where you simply copy your files to some other volume, usually a normal filesystem on random-I/O media like another hard disk, but it can also be an ISO9660 or UDF image for a CD or DVD. You might, for example, plug in a second hard disk, partition it to be the same as your current hard disk, make filesystems on the partitions, and copy all the files across. Just to confuse things even more, archiver programs are often used to copy files between the source and destination because they're usually more efficient than using 'cp' - but despite the use of an archiver program, it's still just a file-by-file backup. Archives involve collecting all the files to be backed up into a large archive file (a Zip file is a type of archive). This file contains not only the file data, but their metadata - file name, last accessed time, permissions, ownership, etc. Archives are also often compressed. Common archiving tools include `tar`, `pax`, `cpio`, and `star` with `tar` being by far the most commonly used on Linux. Archives are probably the most portable approach, in that it's often possible to restore them to almost any kind of computer, but it can be slow and painful to do a restore of only a few files out of a large archive. A filesystem image is usually a byte-for-byte clone of the entire filesystem data, including internal filesystem structures, free disk space contents, etc. `dd` is often used to create these images. This is NOT the same as programs like Norton Ghost and Partimage, which are somewhere between raw filesystem images and filesystem dumps. Some filesystem imaging tools - like the aforementioned partimage and Ghost - understand the filesystem to some extent and can do things like leave out free space. These are halfway between dumpers and imaging tools, really. Dumpers ... well, James knows lots more than I do about these, but I'll give you a quick summary. In general, they're programs that understand a particular filesystem and can copy all the important information from it into a form that can later be restored, without copying the parts that aren't useful like the contents of empty space. Neither dumpers nor filesystem imagers will do you any good if you want to back up a remote filesystem mounted over NFS, SMB, etc. I think we've covered the upsides and downsides of these various approaches reasonably well before, so I won't go into that now. Nick Bannon wrote: > On Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 04:04:26PM +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >> granted its not used constantly and I'm not worried about but its >> just a situation where I don't want to lose data and the just in >> case a murphy's stupid laws is what concerns me. > > The only way you can have some peace of mind there is, every so often, > to pretend that you've just lost your hard disc and to test a restore > using only your backup copy. Yep. Alas, just doing a restore isn't good enough. You really need to then /use/ the restored machine for your live services*. Fail to do that, and I guarantee you'll discover you've missed something critical as soon as you really need it. * I haven't yet followed my own advice here. A _full_ restore here will take 12 + hours (though it's < 1 hour from bare metal to working critical services), and I lack a spare machine with sufficient grunt to handle the main server role. Machines with 2GB or more of RAM and 750GB RAID arrays are not something I have just lying around. Both of these issues mean that my own backups are not up to scratch - mostly due to lack of available funds to do the proper testing. *sigh*. -- Craig Ringer From weirdo at tigris.org Wed Jul 28 05:51:05 2004 From: weirdo at tigris.org (Tim White) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 17:51:05 -0400 Subject: [plug] Bandwidth limiting Message-ID: <4106CE49.8070108@tigris.org> I am looking for a bandwidth limiting program for limiting my download speeds. I am currently using trickle in standalone mode. What I want is for a bandwidth limiter to detect what other programs are using and never stop them from using bandwidth. Instead of reserving 20% for http and chat I would like it to detect if other programs are using the connection and to throttle then. If the connection is empty then i want it to use all of the bandwidth. I think I can do this using trickled but i havn't had time to look yet and what I did see looked complex. Tim From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Tue Jul 27 17:56:10 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 17:56:10 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backups In-Reply-To: <410623A2.2060604@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <4105F77C.80305@smlintl.com.au> <20040727071045.GA25648@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <410606A1.2070906@postnewspapers.com.au> <41060C8A.6030705@smlintl.com.au> <410610B8.6050804@postnewspapers.com.au> <41061182.4070408@smlintl.com.au> <410623A2.2060604@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <20040727095610.GA31336@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <410623A2.2060604 at postnewspapers.com.au> on Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 05:42:58PM +0800, Craig Ringer wrote: > James: is `dump` capable of dumping a consistent point-in-time copy of > a filesystem that's in read/write use, or must measures like read-only > remounts or LVM snapshots be used? "Must"? I wouldn't say so. I don't think it is any worse than tar (i.e. won't lead to "filesystem corruption" as such). This remark is based entirely on personal fortune with dump/restore systems appearing to be robust. But I don't know whether this is by design or luck. Also, I don't know how reliable the ext2/3 dump/restore utilities are -- but I assume they're of high quality. Also, it's possible that last time I had to restore, it was done on a system with snapshot support anyway (which leaves your question unanswered). > If you're thinking about differential or incremental backups intead, > then `dump` might again be a reasonable option, but I don't know enough > about it to say. Dump is designed for this, but I guess if he's using write-once DVDs, it might not be convenient to make lots and lots of incremental backups with that type of medium. I can't remember how 'restore' handles incremental backups (i.e. although it is designed specifically for such usage, I can't remember how you 'tell it' the location of each backup). From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Tue Jul 27 18:01:14 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 18:01:14 +0800 Subject: [plug] Bandwidth limiting In-Reply-To: <4106CE49.8070108@tigris.org> References: <4106CE49.8070108@tigris.org> Message-ID: <410627EA.1080809@postnewspapers.com.au> Tim White wrote: > I am looking for a bandwidth limiting program for limiting my download > speeds. I am currently using trickle in standalone mode. What I want is > for a bandwidth limiter to detect what other programs are using and > never stop them from using bandwidth. Instead of reserving 20% for http > and chat I would like it to detect if other programs are using the > connection and to throttle then. If the connection is empty then i want > it to use all of the bandwidth. I think I can do this using trickled but > i havn't had time to look yet and what I did see looked complex. It sounds like you want a full QoS solution. I've used HTB very succesfully, but it took me a while to learn. For a quick fix that might work, check out WonderShaper, a CFQ/HTB setup script. http://lartc.org/wondershaper/ I found I needed to write my own script to fit my needs, so I didn't use it, but I've heard people have good results with it for simple things. -- Craig Ringer From russ at powerstech.com Tue Jul 27 17:56:00 2004 From: russ at powerstech.com (Russ Powers) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 17:56:00 +0800 Subject: [plug] phone fax / answering machine Message-ID: <200407271756.00875.russ@powerstech.com> Hi, Anybody out there use a linux box as an answering machine and fax send/receive? Any success stories? I have a fax/answering machine but I also have a server that's on all the time so it seems a waste of power having them both on all the time. I also change the answering machine settings depending on the time of day and day of the week. For instance weekends I set it to pick up immediately. But I have to do that manually and usually forget. It would be nice to have a cron job do it automagically. I've been looking around and most seem to involve using vgetty with a modem. Don't know how vgetty and linux would go with an on board modem or how this would impact adsl. I'd be interested in any decent gui's too. Didn't see much available. Thanks. -- Regards, Russ From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Tue Jul 27 18:06:03 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 18:06:03 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backups In-Reply-To: <20040727095610.GA31336@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <4105F77C.80305@smlintl.com.au> <20040727071045.GA25648@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <410606A1.2070906@postnewspapers.com.au> <41060C8A.6030705@smlintl.com.au> <410610B8.6050804@postnewspapers.com.au> <41061182.4070408@smlintl.com.au> <410623A2.2060604@postnewspapers.com.au> <20040727095610.GA31336@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <4106290B.4020506@postnewspapers.com.au> James Devenish wrote: > In message <410623A2.2060604 at postnewspapers.com.au> > on Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 05:42:58PM +0800, Craig Ringer wrote: > >>James: is `dump` capable of dumping a consistent point-in-time copy of >>a filesystem that's in read/write use, or must measures like read-only >>remounts or LVM snapshots be used? > > > "Must"? I wouldn't say so. I don't think it is any worse than tar (i.e. > won't lead to "filesystem corruption" as such). The dump man page, which I've now had a look through, suggests that it'll deal OK with the FS changing under it, and you'll get a backup that can be restored. Whether it's a valid backup as far as the applications are concerned is another matter entirely - I wouldn't want to rely on this for backing up my mail spools, for example. As you say, it looks like it's much the same as using tar on a live filesystem - I'm not game to do it, but for some things - or on less active servers - it could be OK. I'm beginning to find the idea of using dump's differential backup support, combined with LVM snapshots, quite attractive. Alas, I'm using reiserfs on almost all my volumes because of the dynamic resizing and general lvm-friendlyness, and it doesn't seem to have a `dump` program. > This remark is based > entirely on personal fortune with dump/restore systems appearing to be > robust. But I don't know whether this is by design or luck. Also, I > don't know how reliable the ext2/3 dump/restore utilities are -- but I > assume they're of high quality. I think it's safe to assume they're well tested - but they seem to be going out of fashion, so I wonder how well that'll last. -- Craig Ringer From senectus at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 19:40:32 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 19:40:32 +0800 Subject: [plug] Crontab?? Message-ID: I have various jobs that I want to start and stop at particular times. I've tried all sorts of things but I've never seem to be able to get crontab to do what I want it to do, when I want it... I've read man files (not much use), and various howto's etc.. and none of them seem to make any sense.. does anyone know of a decent tutorial for crontab? -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Tue Jul 27 19:51:45 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 19:51:45 +0800 Subject: [plug] Crontab?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040727115145.GA1117@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Hi, In message on Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 07:40:32PM +0800, Senectus . wrote: > I have various jobs that I want to start and stop at particular times. > I've tried all sorts of things but I've never seem to be able to get > crontab to do what I want it to do, when I want it... > I've read man files (not much use), ?! What do you mean? Crontab is a highly-established tradition, so there should be no problem using it. Google must surely be a vast source of repetitive training materials! If not, I have included a sample from the man page supplied in Debian woody (the man page describes the exact format, too). If none of these things works, perhaps there is a problem with your computer? There should be a `cron` process running at all times. Depending on your OS/distro, maybe you need to "enable" cron in some way (wow)? It would normally be started from /etc/init.d/cron when booting. # run five minutes after midnight, every day 5 0 * * * $HOME/bin/daily.job >> $HOME/tmp/out 2>&1 # run at 2:15pm on the first of every month -- output mailed to paul 15 14 1 * * $HOME/bin/monthly # run at 10 pm on weekdays, annoy Joe 0 22 * * 1-5 mail -s "It's 10pm" joe%Joe,%%Where are your kids?% 23 0-23/2 * * * echo "run 23 minutes after midn, 2am, 4am ..., everyday" 5 4 * * sun echo "run at 5 after 4 every sunday" From billk at iinet.net.au Tue Jul 27 19:51:49 2004 From: billk at iinet.net.au (William Kenworthy) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 19:51:49 +0800 Subject: [plug] Crontab?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1090929109.17656.0.camel@rattus.Localdomain> Cron doesnt do all timing things well, "at" may be more what you need? BillK On Tue, 2004-07-27 at 19:40, Senectus . wrote: > I have various jobs that I want to start and stop at particular times. > I've tried all sorts of things but I've never seem to be able to get > crontab to do what I want it to do, when I want it... > I've read man files (not much use), and various howto's etc.. and none > of them seem to make any sense.. does anyone know of a decent tutorial > for crontab? > From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Tue Jul 27 19:54:33 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 19:54:33 +0800 Subject: [plug] Crontab?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040727115433.GB17519@cp.yi.org> Senectus . wrote: > I have various jobs that I want to start and stop at particular times. > I've tried all sorts of things but I've never seem to be able to get > crontab to do what I want it to do, when I want it... > I've read man files (not much use), and various howto's etc.. and none > of them seem to make any sense.. does anyone know of a decent tutorial > for crontab? It's dead easy once you see it done so I'll give a couple of examples which may make the man pages easier to follow. There are actually two types of crontab files, one for normal users (which users can edit themselves) and one for the whole system (which will let you run stuff as any user). The system-wide one lives in /etc/crontab; the per-user ones are edited by the crontab command: $ crontab my.crontab <-- install my.crontab as my per-user crontab $ crontab -e <-- open an editor with my crontab file $ crontab -l <-- list the contents of my crontab The format of the crontab files is described in crontab(5). Basically you list one job on each line, preceded by several fields saying when you want it to run. Here are some examples: #min hr day month dayofweek 45 21 * * * /home/cameron/bin/backup-xbox-to-euclid This one runs the mentioned shell script at 9:45 every night. 00 21 * * fri some-script This one runs at 9pm on Friday nights. */2 * * * * some-script This one runs every two minutes. The per-user crontab files live somewhere in var so to edit them you *have* to go through the crontab command. The system-wide /etc/crontab can be edited like any file. The format is similar but it also has a column for which user to run the command as. Examples: 0,30 * * * * root script-to-run-every-half-hour 20 18 * * * root script-to-run-at-6:20pm-every-day 20 18 * * 6 root script-to-run-on-saturdays 20 18 1 * * root script-to-run-on-the-first-of-each-month Cameron. From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Tue Jul 27 20:08:53 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 20:08:53 +0800 Subject: [plug] Crontab?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200407272008.53347@death.2.spammers> On Tuesday 27 July 2004 19:40, Senectus . wrote: > I have various jobs that I want to start and stop at particular times. > I've tried all sorts of things but I've never seem to be able to get > crontab to do what I want it to do, when I want it... Try setting the system clock correctly. :-) > I've read man files (not much use), and various howto's etc.. and > none of them seem to make any sense.. does anyone know of a decent > tutorial for crontab? Which cron? Paul Vixie's works at several levels: system and user. Individual users may be permitted to set up their personal crontab. Anything in them gets run with the privileges of its owner. Such crontabs are maintained by the use of the "crontab" command. System-wise; /etc/crontab controls most of cron's behaviour. Your system may have /etc/cron.{hourly,daily,weekly,monthly} directories that hold *programs* based on that default schedule. Then there's /etc/cron.d which contains application/package crontabs. A nice feature, if you don't get trapped by it, is that application crontabs can be "suspended" by renaming them as only those with name consisting solely of upper- and lower-case letters, digits, underscores, and hyphens are valid. So renaming to something with a dot in the name is convenient. The crontab file has one of two formats, depending on being user- or system-crontab. The latter adds a "user" field to each command; for the userid to be used to run the corresponding command. The cron daemon will notice if a crontab changes and reload its internal idea of what to do next. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From senectus at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 20:13:10 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 20:13:10 +0800 Subject: [plug] Crontab?? In-Reply-To: <20040727115433.GB17519@cp.yi.org> References: <20040727115433.GB17519@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: I get the following when i try to crontab as a user: senectus at one-eye senectus $ crontab -l -bash: /usr/bin/crontab: Permission denied -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Tue Jul 27 20:16:19 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 20:16:19 +0800 Subject: [plug] Crontab?? In-Reply-To: References: <20040727115433.GB17519@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <20040727121619.GA2098@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message on Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 08:13:10PM +0800, Senectus . wrote: > I get the following when i try to crontab as a user: > senectus at one-eye senectus $ crontab -l > -bash: /usr/bin/crontab: Permission denied Are you using Mandrake? Perhaps there is a bug filed against this in Mandrake's tracking system (I'm just guessing). Alternatively, perhaps there's a problem with your computer for some reason. What does `ls` tell you about permissions? E.g.: % ls -ld /usr/bin/crontab -rwsr-xr-x 1 root root 22460 Oct 1 2001 /usr/bin/crontab % ls -ld /usr/bin/ drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 31744 Jul 21 11:57 /usr/bin/ % ls -ld /usr/ drwxr-xr-x 16 root root 1024 Apr 7 2002 /usr/ From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Tue Jul 27 20:19:04 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 20:19:04 +0800 Subject: [plug] Crontab?? In-Reply-To: <20040727121619.GA2098@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <20040727115433.GB17519@cp.yi.org> <20040727121619.GA2098@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <20040727121904.GA2236@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <20040727121619.GA2098 at mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> on Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 08:16:19PM +0800, James Devenish wrote: > Are you using Mandrake? I really meant to say something else, didn't I? From senectus at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 20:19:56 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 20:19:56 +0800 Subject: [plug] Crontab?? In-Reply-To: <20040727121619.GA2098@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <20040727115433.GB17519@cp.yi.org> <20040727121619.GA2098@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: Alternatively, perhaps there's a problem > with your computer for some reason. What does `ls` tell you about permissions? > E.g.: > > % ls -ld /usr/bin/crontab > -rwsr-xr-x 1 root root 22460 Oct 1 2001 /usr/bin/crontab > % ls -ld /usr/bin/ > drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 31744 Jul 21 11:57 /usr/bin/ > % ls -ld /usr/ > drwxr-xr-x 16 root root 1024 Apr 7 2002 /usr/ > root at one-eye senectus # ls -ld /usr/bin/crontab -rwsr-x--- 1 root cron 24548 Apr 30 05:54 /usr/bin/crontab root at one-eye senectus # ls -ld /usr/bin/ drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 32768 Jul 27 15:17 /usr/bin/ root at one-eye senectus # ls -ld /usr/ drwxr-xr-x 16 root root 4096 Jul 11 23:27 /usr/ Gentoo user :-P -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From arie99 at ozemail.com.au Tue Jul 27 20:25:32 2004 From: arie99 at ozemail.com.au (Arie Hol) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 20:25:32 +0800 Subject: [plug] Re: plug-newbies@plug In-Reply-To: References: <1090889500.3257.15.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> Message-ID: <4106BA3C.2541.2A515B@localhost> On 27 Jul 2004 at 9:19, Chris Griffin wrote: > Well said Onno :) Thank you Onno for those well chosen words. I just wish that my Linux skills were more developed that way I might be more of helper than a critic - maybe with time I will get better - but I will need a lot of time. As for Marc's comments about being emotional - no offence taken there - I am after all an emotional person, but I prefer to think of it as 'passionate' - I fully endorse Linux and the open software paradigm - I also endorse the activities of P.L.U.G. (that's why I am a financial member). I don't mind reading discussions about highly technical aspects of Linux - (even though I don't understand a lot of it) - but it demonstrates to me the potential of my decision to adopt Linux and the inherent skills that come with it (hopefully). I have a great respect for the expertise and knowledge demonstrated through the people who use this list - but I get really "bitter and twisted" by some of the attitudes that surface from time to time. No offence taken and non intended. >--------------------------------------------------------------< For the concert of life, nobody has a program. >--------------------------------------------------------------< From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Tue Jul 27 20:25:21 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 20:25:21 +0800 Subject: [plug] Crontab?? In-Reply-To: References: <20040727115433.GB17519@cp.yi.org> <20040727121619.GA2098@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <20040727122520.GB2236@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message on Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 08:19:56PM +0800, Senectus . wrote: > root at one-eye senectus # ls -ld /usr/bin/crontab > -rwsr-x--- 1 root cron 24548 Apr 30 05:54 /usr/bin/crontab That's...interesting. Usually it's executable by everyone (this can be achieved by `chmod a+rx /usr/bin/crontab` as root). Not sure why Gentoo would disable crontab. The only other permissions scheme I recall is -r-xr-sr-x (as opposed to -rwsr-xr-x). From senectus at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 20:32:00 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 20:32:00 +0800 Subject: [plug] Crontab?? In-Reply-To: <20040727122520.GB2236@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <20040727115433.GB17519@cp.yi.org> <20040727121619.GA2098@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <20040727122520.GB2236@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: ok that helped.. so now I have this open up my app like so: 00 21 * * fri firefox How do I get it to shut it down at a particular time? On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 20:25:21 +0800, James Devenish wrote: > In message > on Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 08:19:56PM +0800, Senectus . wrote: > > root at one-eye senectus # ls -ld /usr/bin/crontab > > -rwsr-x--- 1 root cron 24548 Apr 30 05:54 /usr/bin/crontab > > That's...interesting. Usually it's executable by everyone (this can be > achieved by `chmod a+rx /usr/bin/crontab` as root). Not sure why Gentoo > would disable crontab. The only other permissions scheme I recall is > -r-xr-sr-x (as opposed to -rwsr-xr-x). > > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Tue Jul 27 20:35:41 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 20:35:41 +0800 Subject: [plug] Crontab?? In-Reply-To: References: <20040727115433.GB17519@cp.yi.org> <20040727121619.GA2098@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <20040727122520.GB2236@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <20040727123541.GA2610@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message on Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 08:32:00PM +0800, Senectus . wrote: > How do I get it to shut it down at a particular time? 00 22 * * fri pkill firefox :-P From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Tue Jul 27 20:38:03 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 20:38:03 +0800 Subject: [plug] Crontab?? In-Reply-To: References: <20040727115433.GB17519@cp.yi.org> <20040727121619.GA2098@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <20040727122520.GB2236@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <20040727123803.GB2610@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message on Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 08:32:00PM +0800, Senectus . wrote: > ok that helped.. > so now I have this open up my app like so: > 00 21 * * fri firefox By the way: this will probably send you an e-mail explaining why it failed (because I would expect it to fail). Basically, firefox will need to know "where" it should open. If you want it to attempt to open itself on your graphical console (e.g. if you're logged in with an X11 window manager), you might need to do: 00 21 * * fri env DISPLAY=:0 firefox Also, note that it might not be a good idea to attempt a "long-running" cron job. If you test the above and it works, you might then choose to change it to this in future: 00 21 * * fri env DISPLAY=:0 firefox & From senectus at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 20:42:08 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 20:42:08 +0800 Subject: [plug] Crontab?? In-Reply-To: <20040727123803.GB2610@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <20040727115433.GB17519@cp.yi.org> <20040727121619.GA2098@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <20040727122520.GB2236@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <20040727123803.GB2610@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: ok thanks.. will see if that runs tonight.. :-) -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Tue Jul 27 21:30:28 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 21:30:28 +0800 Subject: [plug] Crontab?? In-Reply-To: <20040727122520.GB2236@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <20040727122520.GB2236@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <200407272130.28868@death.2.spammers> On Tuesday 27 July 2004 20:25, James Devenish wrote: > In message > > on Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 08:19:56PM +0800, Senectus . wrote: > > root at one-eye senectus # ls -ld /usr/bin/crontab > > -rwsr-x--- 1 root cron 24548 Apr 30 05:54 /usr/bin/crontab > > That's...interesting. Usually it's executable by everyone (this can be > achieved by `chmod a+rx /usr/bin/crontab` as root). Not sure why Gentoo > would disable crontab. The only other permissions scheme I recall is > -r-xr-sr-x (as opposed to -rwsr-xr-x). You'd better make sure that the security hole in crontab has been plugged before exposing /usr/bin/crontab. There was an advisory some time ago about a vulnerability... I've not seen a corresponding fix, other than removal of "other" execute permissions from the command. NB: Any member of the "cron" group can still run the command. It's probably safer using that facility than giving carte-blanche access in order to avoid opening the security hole too widely... -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From weirdo at tigris.org Wed Jul 28 10:20:41 2004 From: weirdo at tigris.org (Tim White) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 22:20:41 -0400 Subject: [plug] apt-get regex Message-ID: <41070D79.7020601@tigris.org> I wish to install some packages with a regex. The command I want to run is 'apt-get install xmms*' but I have a few broken packages and confilcts when I do that. Instead of writing out all the packages I want (about 30) is there a way to say 'apt-get install xmms* exclude xmms-alarm-bmp1 xmms-arts xmms-xmmplater xmmsarts'? I know that it is probably just a modification of the regex but not sure how to do it. Thanks Tim From r.steicke at bom.gov.au Tue Jul 27 22:51:46 2004 From: r.steicke at bom.gov.au (Russell Steicke) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 22:51:46 +0800 Subject: [plug] apt-get regex In-Reply-To: <41070D79.7020601@tigris.org> References: <41070D79.7020601@tigris.org> Message-ID: <20040727145146.GG1524@postoffice.wa.bom.gov.au> On Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 10:20:41PM -0400, Tim White wrote: > I wish to install some packages with a regex. The command I want to run > is 'apt-get install xmms*' but I have a few broken packages and > confilcts when I do that. Instead of writing out all the packages I want > (about 30) is there a way to say 'apt-get install xmms* exclude > xmms-alarm-bmp1 xmms-arts xmms-xmmplater xmmsarts'? > I know that it is probably just a modification of the regex but not sure > how to do it. Try this: apt-get install xmms\* xmms-alarm-bmp1- xmms-arts- xmms-xmmplater- xmmsarts- The trailing '-' on the package name turns install into remove. I _think_ apt handles the apparently conflicting instructions for those packages in the way you want. -- Russell Steicke -- Fortune says: Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in hospitals dying of nothing. -- Redd Foxx From sboak at westnet.com.au Tue Jul 27 23:29:43 2004 From: sboak at westnet.com.au (Steve Boak) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 23:29:43 +0800 Subject: [plug] phone fax / answering machine In-Reply-To: <200407271756.00875.russ@powerstech.com> References: <200407271756.00875.russ@powerstech.com> Message-ID: <200407272329.43770.sboak@westnet.com.au> On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 05:56 pm, Russ Powers wrote: > Hi, > > Anybody out there use a linux box as an answering machine and fax > send/receive? Any success stories? > > I have a fax/answering machine but I also have a server that's on all the > time so it seems a waste of power having them both on all the time. > > I also change the answering machine settings depending on the time of day > and day of the week. For instance weekends I set it to pick up immediately. > But I have to do that manually and usually forget. It would be nice to have > a cron job do it automagically. > > I've been looking around and most seem to involve using vgetty with a > modem. Don't know how vgetty and linux would go with an on board modem or > how this would impact adsl. > > I'd be interested in any decent gui's too. Didn't see much available. > > Thanks. I have been investigating Astersk at http://www.asterisk.org/ for use as an exchange for Voice over IP phones (and *almost* have it working - I can dial out, but not get calls in yet :-). It has all the features you could want for voice menus, multiple message banks for extention numbers, and can be set up to change it's behavior at different times during the day. It comes with a whole host of recorded messages built in when you install it. Unfortunately it requires a telephone line interface card to do what you want, and as it is only just coming up to release status the documentation at http://www.voip-info.org/wiki-Asterisk is still a bit hard to follow. It's probably a bit more complex than you were after and doesn't have it's own setup GUI, although there is a GUI add-on called 'actos' that may do the job. You will have to download the source and compile it yourself, but for me that was simply 'make' and 'make install' and it worked. Then you have to work out how to configure it :-) Oh, I almost forgot - astersk does not do faxes, but you should be able to use your modem as the fax device (if it works as a regular modem under Linux) connected to your normal phone line without bothering your ADSL connection. Software wise, I don't know - I've never tried it. By the way, does anyone else have a working implementation of asterix using IAX protocol that I could ask a few questions of? Steve -- VOIP-Phone - Free World Dialup number 454566 - Via 128k ISDN "Most men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and continue on as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill From jtwarwick at iinet.net.au Wed Jul 28 06:30:19 2004 From: jtwarwick at iinet.net.au (Jay Warwick) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 06:30:19 +0800 Subject: [plug] Crontab?? In-Reply-To: <20040727123803.GB2610@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <20040727115433.GB17519@cp.yi.org> <20040727121619.GA2098@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <20040727122520.GB2236@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <20040727123803.GB2610@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <1090967419.6792.12.camel@hosrv01.jtajt.local> On Tue, 2004-07-27 at 20:38, James Devenish wrote: > Also, note that it might not be a good idea to attempt a "long-running" > cron job. If you test the above and it works, you might then choose to > change it to this in future: > > 00 21 * * fri env DISPLAY=:0 firefox & A week or so ago I asked a crontab question and was informed my answer was probably in the man pages - I was trying to get my computer to run a virus scan on the whole system at a specific time each week. The job would not work, however if I simply ran the command myself it would run. After much searching on the internet I concluded that it must be timing-out because crontab implements every minute so set-up a script to be run instead. This brings me to my question - on the last line above, what is the meaning of the '&', does it allow the job to stay open for a longer period? From weirdo at tigris.org Wed Jul 28 18:47:18 2004 From: weirdo at tigris.org (Tim White) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 06:47:18 -0400 Subject: [plug] Pon and Poff on Gnome Bar Message-ID: <41078436.8030703@tigris.org> I wish to have icons on my Gnome menu bar to dialup and disconnect to the net. (i.e. pon Optus and poff) Does any one know how to do that? I tried a launcher and it says that pon Optus isn't a launchable item Thanks Tim From weirdo at tigris.org Wed Jul 28 18:51:37 2004 From: weirdo at tigris.org (Tim White) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 06:51:37 -0400 Subject: [plug] apt-get regex In-Reply-To: <20040727145146.GG1524@postoffice.wa.bom.gov.au> References: <41070D79.7020601@tigris.org> <20040727145146.GG1524@postoffice.wa.bom.gov.au> Message-ID: <41078539.90305@tigris.org> Russell Steicke wrote: > apt-get install xmms\* xmms-alarm-bmp1- xmms-arts- xmms-xmmplayer- xmmsarts- > > > Thanks. Worked a treat. I will remember that for later. I had tried a leading '-' but haden't thought of a trailing one. Tim From onno at itmaze.com.au Wed Jul 28 06:58:44 2004 From: onno at itmaze.com.au (Onno Benschop) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 08:58:44 +1000 Subject: [plug] Crontab?? In-Reply-To: References: <20040727115433.GB17519@cp.yi.org> <20040727121619.GA2098@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <20040727122520.GB2236@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <1090969124.5894.2.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> On Tue, 2004-07-27 at 22:32, Senectus . wrote: > ok that helped.. > so now I have this open up my app like so: > 00 21 * * fri firefox Hmm, Can I be ignorant and ask why on earth you would want to launch firefox with a cron-job? Moreover, why would you want to launch *any* GUI application with cron? Cheers, Onno Benschop Connected via Optus B3 at S27?52'30" - E151?16'25" (Millmerran, QLD) -- ()/)/)() ..ASCII for Onno.. |>>? ..EBCDIC for Onno.. --- -. -. --- ..Morse for Onno.. Proudly supported by Skipper Trucks, Highway1, Concept AV, Sony Central, Dalcon ITmaze - ABN: 56 178 057 063 - ph: 04 1219 8888 - onno at itmaze dot com dot au From dsbrown at cyllene.uwa.edu.au Wed Jul 28 06:59:08 2004 From: dsbrown at cyllene.uwa.edu.au (Denis Brown) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 06:59:08 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Crontab?? In-Reply-To: <1090967419.6792.12.camel@hosrv01.jtajt.local> References: <20040727115433.GB17519@cp.yi.org> <20040727121619.GA2098@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <20040727122520.GB2236@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <20040727123803.GB2610@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <1090967419.6792.12.camel@hosrv01.jtajt.local> Message-ID: Dear Jay, On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Jay Warwick wrote: > On Tue, 2004-07-27 at 20:38, James Devenish wrote: > > > Also, note that it might not be a good idea to attempt a "long-running" > > cron job. If you test the above and it works, you might then choose to > > change it to this in future: > > > > 00 21 * * fri env DISPLAY=:0 firefox & > > be run instead. This brings me to my question - on the last line above, > what is the meaning of the '&', does it allow the job to stay open for a > longer period? > The & at the end of a command line causes the command, once initiated, to be sent "to the background" for continued execution. The means, for example, that you can start a long job, then log off without the job stopping (because you logged off.) Thus you might have an hypothetical job "calculate pi to 10,000,000 decimal places" that will probably take quite some time to complete. If you did myprompt> calcpi and then logged off, the job would collapse. On the other hand if you added the & character myprompt> calcpi & you could safely log off, log back on in a week's time and check on progress :-) To return a job to the foreground, type fg and the job number. The job number can be found by using the jobs command. I have a feeling that man bash givs more details, alterntively consult something like the bash howto (Linux Documentation Project) or the Linux Admnistrator's Guide (also Lin Doc Proj) Hope this helps, Denis From senectus at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 07:00:21 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 07:00:21 +0800 Subject: [plug] Crontab?? In-Reply-To: <1090967419.6792.12.camel@hosrv01.jtajt.local> References: <20040727115433.GB17519@cp.yi.org> <20040727121619.GA2098@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <20040727122520.GB2236@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <20040727123803.GB2610@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <1090967419.6792.12.camel@hosrv01.jtajt.local> Message-ID: & detaches the job.. Might even be a good idea to use nohup appname & My crontab did not work last night either.. I might try the above. > > A week or so ago I asked a crontab question and was informed my answer > was probably in the man pages - I was trying to get my computer to run a > virus scan on the whole system at a specific time each week. The job > would not work, however if I simply ran the command myself it would > run. After much searching on the internet I concluded that it must be > timing-out because crontab implements every minute so set-up a script to > be run instead. This brings me to my question - on the last line above, > what is the meaning of the '&', does it allow the job to stay open for a > longer period? -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From billk at iinet.net.au Wed Jul 28 07:02:29 2004 From: billk at iinet.net.au (William Kenworthy) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 07:02:29 +0800 Subject: [plug] Crontab?? In-Reply-To: <1090967419.6792.12.camel@hosrv01.jtajt.local> References: <20040727115433.GB17519@cp.yi.org> <20040727121619.GA2098@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <20040727122520.GB2236@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <20040727123803.GB2610@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <1090967419.6792.12.camel@hosrv01.jtajt.local> Message-ID: <1090969349.10356.5.camel@rattus.Localdomain> cron implements a very "bare" environment that uses the primative "sh" shell and applications that depend on having a normal environment will often fail. This can often be passed on the command line (if you can find out what it needs) e.g., to set the MYVAR env. variable for the spawn try "MYVAR=something command" The "&" tells the command to execute and return control back to the terminal straight away. Normally not used in a crontab, and might cause problems. BillK On Wed, 2004-07-28 at 06:30, Jay Warwick wrote: > On Tue, 2004-07-27 at 20:38, James Devenish wrote: > > > Also, note that it might not be a good idea to attempt a "long-running" > > cron job. If you test the above and it works, you might then choose to > > change it to this in future: > > > > 00 21 * * fri env DISPLAY=:0 firefox & > > A week or so ago I asked a crontab question and was informed my answer > was probably in the man pages - I was trying to get my computer to run a > virus scan on the whole system at a specific time each week. The job > would not work, however if I simply ran the command myself it would > run. After much searching on the internet I concluded that it must be > timing-out because crontab implements every minute so set-up a script to > be run instead. This brings me to my question - on the last line above, > what is the meaning of the '&', does it allow the job to stay open for a > longer period? > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From senectus at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 07:02:18 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 07:02:18 +0800 Subject: [plug] Crontab?? In-Reply-To: <1090969124.5894.2.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> References: <20040727115433.GB17519@cp.yi.org> <20040727121619.GA2098@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <20040727122520.GB2236@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <1090969124.5894.2.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> Message-ID: > > Hmm, > > Can I be ignorant and ask why on earth you would want to launch firefox > with a cron-job? Moreover, why would you want to launch *any* GUI > application with cron? > Firefox I don't want to run, but a gui app I do.. I just didn't want to say WHAT it was I needed to run.. for whatever reasons... -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From jtwarwick at iinet.net.au Wed Jul 28 07:13:14 2004 From: jtwarwick at iinet.net.au (Jay Warwick) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 07:13:14 +0800 Subject: [plug] Crontab?? In-Reply-To: References: <20040727115433.GB17519@cp.yi.org> <20040727121619.GA2098@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <20040727122520.GB2236@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <20040727123803.GB2610@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <1090967419.6792.12.camel@hosrv01.jtajt.local> Message-ID: <1090969994.6792.16.camel@hosrv01.jtajt.local> On Wed, 2004-07-28 at 06:59, Denis Brown wrote: > Dear Jay, > > On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Jay Warwick wrote: > > > On Tue, 2004-07-27 at 20:38, James Devenish wrote: > > > > > Also, note that it might not be a good idea to attempt a "long-running" > > > cron job. If you test the above and it works, you might then choose to > > > change it to this in future: > > > > > > 00 21 * * fri env DISPLAY=:0 firefox & > > > > > > > be run instead. This brings me to my question - on the last line above, > > what is the meaning of the '&', does it allow the job to stay open for a > > longer period? > > > The & at the end of a command line causes the command, once initiated, to > be sent "to the background" for continued execution. The means, for > example, that you can start a long job, then log off without the job > stopping (because you logged off.) > > Thus you might have an hypothetical job "calculate pi to 10,000,000 > decimal places" that will probably take quite some time to complete. If > you did > > myprompt> calcpi > > and then logged off, the job would collapse. On the other hand if you > added the & character > > myprompt> calcpi & > > you could safely log off, log back on in a week's time and check on > progress :-) To return a job to the foreground, type fg and the job > number. The job number can be found by using the jobs command. > > I have a feeling that man bash givs more details, alterntively consult > something like the bash howto (Linux Documentation Project) or the Linux > Admnistrator's Guide (also Lin Doc Proj) > > Hope this helps, > Denis Thanks Denis, Not sure if this means I need to be logged on to be able to start the job - root job scheduled to start at 4am, but your info gives me more to look into. Thanks JW From ryan at is.as.geeky.as Wed Jul 28 07:26:52 2004 From: ryan at is.as.geeky.as (Ryan) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 07:26:52 +0800 Subject: [plug] Pon and Poff on Gnome Bar In-Reply-To: <41078436.8030703@tigris.org> References: <41078436.8030703@tigris.org> Message-ID: <1090970812.1261.2.camel@vaio> The 'Modem Lights' applet that comes standard with the gnome-applets packages does what you want - and a bit more. You can click the left button and it will run a chosen command to connect and disconnect, which is set in the preferences of the applet. It is under the 'Internet' applet submenu. Ryan On Wed, 2004-07-28 at 18:47, Tim White wrote: > I wish to have icons on my Gnome menu bar to dialup and disconnect to > the net. (i.e. pon Optus and poff) > Does any one know how to do that? I tried a launcher and it says that > pon Optus isn't a launchable item > Thanks > Tim > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Wed Jul 28 08:35:31 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 08:35:31 +0800 Subject: [plug] phone fax / answering machine In-Reply-To: <200407272329.43770.sboak@westnet.com.au> References: <200407271756.00875.russ@powerstech.com> <200407272329.43770.sboak@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <4106F4D3.3010305@smlintl.com.au> There is a company here in WA thats has a working implementation of it. My understanding is that it may be that you do not have an account or you do not have the right equipment. As you you need to have someone of getting off the telephone exchange to a person's house. A VOIP phone company will give you that. Also you do have voip telephone equipment to change the structure of the data. BTW the only reason I know bugger all about this "product" is because we are going to implement it in work shortly with an old dual pentium we have lying about and we are actually using asterisk or going to use asterisk as the program on a debian 3.0r2 box that will hide in the corner. I can't do anything put rave about asterisk anyways because you can set it up to switch between your telephone carrier and an internet carrier. You can look for the cheapest method and get it to use that method. YOu can have your own message bank. Divert the phone calls to your mobile and if you don't pick up go to a message bank at home. Basically these big company type telephone services for free because of the maginificent open source. http://www.techtopia.com.au/index.php Thats the company in WA. HTH Marc Steve Boak wrote: >On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 05:56 pm, Russ Powers wrote: > > >>Hi, >> >>Anybody out there use a linux box as an answering machine and fax >>send/receive? Any success stories? >> >>I have a fax/answering machine but I also have a server that's on all the >>time so it seems a waste of power having them both on all the time. >> >>I also change the answering machine settings depending on the time of day >>and day of the week. For instance weekends I set it to pick up immediately. >>But I have to do that manually and usually forget. It would be nice to have >>a cron job do it automagically. >> >>I've been looking around and most seem to involve using vgetty with a >>modem. Don't know how vgetty and linux would go with an on board modem or >>how this would impact adsl. >> >>I'd be interested in any decent gui's too. Didn't see much available. >> >>Thanks. >> >> > >I have been investigating Astersk at http://www.asterisk.org/ for use as an >exchange for Voice over IP phones (and *almost* have it working - I can dial >out, but not get calls in yet :-). It has all the features you could want for >voice menus, multiple message banks for extention numbers, and can be set up >to change it's behavior at different times during the day. It comes with a >whole host of recorded messages built in when you install it. Unfortunately >it requires a telephone line interface card to do what you want, and as it is >only just coming up to release status the documentation at >http://www.voip-info.org/wiki-Asterisk is still a bit hard to follow. >It's probably a bit more complex than you were after and doesn't have it's own >setup GUI, although there is a GUI add-on called 'actos' that may do the job. >You will have to download the source and compile it yourself, but for me that >was simply 'make' and 'make install' and it worked. Then you have to work out >how to configure it :-) > >Oh, I almost forgot - astersk does not do faxes, but you should be able to use >your modem as the fax device (if it works as a regular modem under Linux) >connected to your normal phone line without bothering your ADSL connection. >Software wise, I don't know - I've never tried it. > >By the way, does anyone else have a working implementation of asterix using >IAX protocol that I could ask a few questions of? > >Steve > > > From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Wed Jul 28 08:54:12 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 08:54:12 +0800 Subject: [plug] Crontab?? In-Reply-To: <1090969994.6792.16.camel@hosrv01.jtajt.local> References: <20040727115433.GB17519@cp.yi.org> <20040727121619.GA2098@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <20040727122520.GB2236@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <20040727123803.GB2610@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <1090967419.6792.12.camel@hosrv01.jtajt.local> <1090969994.6792.16.camel@hosrv01.jtajt.local> Message-ID: <20040728005412.GA11136@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <1090969994.6792.16.camel at hosrv01.jtajt.local> on Wed, Jul 28, 2004 at 07:13:14AM +0800, Jay Warwick wrote: > Not sure if this means I need to be logged on to be able to start the > job - root job scheduled to start at 4am It should run fine even if you are not logged in at all, unless it is a GUI programme. But your comment (and Marcus') to the effect that "the job would not work" confuses me. It almost sounds like you're saying that you get "no feedback" about your jobs, and that surprises me. Normally, if a cron job fails (or even if it just prints a message), cron will e-mail you with the details. I wonder if this is related to Bernd's comment about an "unfixed" security problem in cron -- is this really true? If such a fundamental and widespread problem exists, I am somewhat surprised that it slipped right past me (it does not seem to have made it into any AUSCERT advisories or development lists or package distributions that I monitor -- how could it be so widely overlooked?). In message <1090969349.10356.5.camel at rattus.Localdomain> on Wed, Jul 28, 2004 at 07:02:29AM +0800, William Kenworthy wrote: > The "&" tells the command to execute and return control back to the > terminal straight away. Normally not used in a crontab, and might cause > problems. & should not cause problems, except that 'error messages' won't be captured directly by cron. Although I'm a zsh user and could be mistaken about POSIX shell behaviour, I was under the impression that cron jobs would run without "job control". Thus, you do not have to worry about SIGHUP or anything like that -- jobs will go into the background in "disowned" state (which is a good thing). Marcus' idea of using nohup, though, is useful for capturing a backgrounded process's output. But generally I prefer ( date; env BLAH=blah programme ) >> $HOME/programme.log 2>&1 & so that I can both keep a history of events without worrying about the job "timing out" or anything like that. I don't always put long jobs in the background, though. And, sometimes, I use `tee` to both keep a log file on the local host *and* let cron send me e-mail. I just depends on the circumstances and the host on which the jobs run. Options, options. From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Wed Jul 28 09:03:36 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 09:03:36 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backups In-Reply-To: <410623A2.2060604@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <4105F77C.80305@smlintl.com.au> <20040727071045.GA25648@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <410606A1.2070906@postnewspapers.com.au> <41060C8A.6030705@smlintl.com.au> <410610B8.6050804@postnewspapers.com.au> <41061182.4070408@smlintl.com.au> <410623A2.2060604@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <4106FB68.9030604@smlintl.com.au> Is my understanding of dump correct. If I want to use dump the weekly full file system I would use dump -0 (number 0) for a full filesystem and then for the incremental just make the daily backups dump -1 so those are incremental. If decided from all readings to use dump predominantly because the basic install won't take me to long to get everything active. All I need are the .conf files and other small stuff and the workdir and the homes and everything else is "not" needed. Also because I'm unsure about size I wanted to compress it to my harddrive then cron job it to transfer to the dvd drive when I'm at work and yes it is dvd +- R/ +- RW so I can use read writable media which is what I was planning to do mainly for cost savings methodology but still effectiveness. I had errors before which I tried to tar.gz a group of files for max 2gig file size limit or something I have ext3fs so maybe it was how I did the command it was a while ago but yeah everyone I've spoken has no idea. Is that a logical method to backup stuff or am I like off target or am I missing something. TIA Marc Craig Ringer wrote: > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > >> Sorry to not clarify since I've "never" backed up network data under >> linux before. > > > No worries. That's why I asked ;-) > >> I would like full whole harddrive back up once a week for the sake of >> if the system all goes to the preverbial out house. > > > [note: reading my own reply, it becomes clear I'm not good at clear > and simple answers. Sorry. I lack the time to edit this down right > now, so I hope it's some use to you as-is. Please forgive all the > assumptions.]. > > OK, so we're talking a full system snapshot there. Any idea what media > you'll be using for that - do you want to try to fit it on a DVD, or > will you be using tapes or perhaps hard disks? > > My personal inclination with those backups is toward using something > like LVM (Linux Volume Manager) to take a filesystem snapshot, then > copying the snapshot onto the backup media as individual files.. This > won't work so well for a DVD or tape backup though, I'm used to using > SATA disks for my system snapshots. > > For DVD or tape (ie non-random-access media), my inclination would be > to use an uncompressed (if possible) `tar` or `star` archive. It's > slow for partial restores and searches, but pretty quick for a full > restore, and it's going to retain almost all info on the system. > James' suggestion of `dump` also bears thinking about here. James: is > `dump` capable of dumping a consistent point-in-time copy of a > filesystem that's in read/write use, or must measures like read-only > remounts or LVM snapshots be used? > > Note that unless you're using something like LVM that permits you to > make a 'frozen in time' view of a filesystem while continuing to work > on it, you'll probably need to bring most services down to make a > consistent system snapshot. > >> I would also like nightly incremental backups with one weekly backup >> of the following folders being the "usual" ones and then rotate those >> over a weekly basis e.g. keep for 1 week or maybe longer I don't know. >> >> /etc/ /home /workdir /var > > > ... and some periodic data and configuration backups. This is a > classic case for `tar`, `pax`, or `cpio` (with `tar` being the most > common among Linux users it seems) and I'd use one of those unless I > had a good reason to do otherwise. There should be no problem with > creating DVD images containing tar files and using those for your > backups. You also have the option of just storing individual files on > your DVD images, but you may run into "fun" with permissions, deep > directory trees, and long file names with this approach. > > If you're thinking about differential or incremental backups intead, > then `dump` might again be a reasonable option, but I don't know > enough about it to say. > > > I've realised that one aspect of this that might need clarifying is > what all these different backup methods we're talking about /are/. > We've covered what the differences in functionality are, but not so > much anything else. > > The main classes of backups we've discussed are: > > - File-by-file copies > - Archives > - Filesystem images > - Filesystem dumps > > Don't worry if not all of this makes sense. (a) I'm rather bad at > explaining things clearly, and (b) you probably don't need to know it > all in detail anyway. If you're interested, though, I hope this info > helps clarify what we've been talking about with `dump`, `dd`, `tar`, > etc. > > A file by file copy is the simplest. It's a backup where you simply > copy your files to some other volume, usually a normal filesystem on > random-I/O media like another hard disk, but it can also be an ISO9660 > or UDF image for a CD or DVD. You might, for example, plug in a second > hard disk, partition it to be the same as your current hard disk, make > filesystems on the partitions, and copy all the files across. Just to > confuse things even more, archiver programs are often used to copy > files between the source and destination because they're usually more > efficient than using 'cp' - but despite the use of an archiver > program, it's still just a file-by-file backup. > > Archives involve collecting all the files to be backed up into a large > archive file (a Zip file is a type of archive). This file contains not > only the file data, but their metadata - file name, last accessed > time, permissions, ownership, etc. Archives are also often compressed. > Common archiving tools include `tar`, `pax`, `cpio`, and `star` with > `tar` being by far the most commonly used on Linux. Archives are > probably the most portable approach, in that it's often possible to > restore them to almost any kind of computer, but it can be slow and > painful to do a restore of only a few files out of a large archive. > > A filesystem image is usually a byte-for-byte clone of the entire > filesystem data, including internal filesystem structures, free disk > space contents, etc. `dd` is often used to create these images. This > is NOT the same as programs like Norton Ghost and Partimage, which are > somewhere between raw filesystem images and filesystem dumps. > > Some filesystem imaging tools - like the aforementioned partimage and > Ghost - understand the filesystem to some extent and can do things > like leave out free space. These are halfway between dumpers and > imaging tools, really. > > Dumpers ... well, James knows lots more than I do about these, but > I'll give you a quick summary. In general, they're programs that > understand a particular filesystem and can copy all the important > information from it into a form that can later be restored, without > copying the parts that aren't useful like the contents of empty space. > > Neither dumpers nor filesystem imagers will do you any good if you > want to back up a remote filesystem mounted over NFS, SMB, etc. > > I think we've covered the upsides and downsides of these various > approaches reasonably well before, so I won't go into that now. > > > Nick Bannon wrote: > > On Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 04:04:26PM +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > >> granted its not used constantly and I'm not worried about but its > >> just a situation where I don't want to lose data and the just in > >> case a murphy's stupid laws is what concerns me. > > > > The only way you can have some peace of mind there is, every so often, > > to pretend that you've just lost your hard disc and to test a restore > > using only your backup copy. > > Yep. Alas, just doing a restore isn't good enough. You really need to > then /use/ the restored machine for your live services*. Fail to do > that, and I guarantee you'll discover you've missed something critical > as soon as you really need it. > > * I haven't yet followed my own advice here. A _full_ restore here > will take 12 + hours (though it's < 1 hour from bare metal to working > critical services), and I lack a spare machine with sufficient grunt > to handle the main server role. Machines with 2GB or more of RAM and > 750GB RAID arrays are not something I have just lying around. Both of > these issues mean that my own backups are not up to scratch - mostly > due to lack of available funds to do the proper testing. *sigh*. > > -- > Craig Ringer > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Wed Jul 28 10:14:57 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 10:14:57 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backups In-Reply-To: <4106FB68.9030604@smlintl.com.au> References: <4105F77C.80305@smlintl.com.au> <20040727071045.GA25648@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <410606A1.2070906@postnewspapers.com.au> <41060C8A.6030705@smlintl.com.au> <410610B8.6050804@postnewspapers.com.au> <41061182.4070408@smlintl.com.au> <410623A2.2060604@postnewspapers.com.au> <4106FB68.9030604@smlintl.com.au> Message-ID: <1090980897.6765.32.camel@albert.localnet> On Wed, 2004-07-28 at 09:03, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > If I want to use dump the weekly full file system I would use dump -0 > (number 0) for a full filesystem and then for the incremental just make > the daily backups dump -1 so those are incremental. No idea, sorry. [snip] > Also because I'm unsure about size. I wanted to compress it to my > harddrive then use a cron job to transfer to the dvd drive when I'm at work. File size issues are something you'll have to deal with no matter what backup method you're using (well, unless you're streaming directly to tape). > Yes it is dvd +- R/ +- RW so I can use read writable media, which is > what I was planning to do mainly for cost savings. I thought DVD-RW was only rewritable after an erase pass, but generally behaves much the same as a CD-R or DVD-R - you write an image, and that's it. If so, while useful this is not what I was taking about when I said 'randomly rewritable'. Randomly rewritable media like hard disks can seek to any location and overwrite just that location without affecting anything else (they can also usually do this reasonably quickly). Basically, you need randomly rewritable media to be able to put a normal filesystem on, and I didn't think DVD-RW qualified. IFAIK DVD+RW /is/ randomly rewritable, but I don't know what the driver and filesystem support for that is like under Linux, and it has some limitations that would make me reluctant to use it. > I had errors before which I tried to tar.gz a group of files for max > 2gig file size limit or something. Odd - that should only be happening with very old distros and kernels. Could you have been saving the tar file to a different filesystem (say, fat32)? > Is that a logical method to backup stuff or am I like off target or am I > missing something. Omitting the specifics about dump, because I don't know enough to say, it seems reasonable. You'll probably need to find a way to prevent dump from trying to dump the dump file you're creating on the hard drive, though. You'll also need to think about how you're going to write the dump file to CD - you'll probably want to include it in an ISO9660 or UDF image with mkisofs or a similar tool. It might be possible to write the dump image onto the DVD without a filesystem, using the DVD much like one would tape media. I haven't tested this though, and don't know what potential issues might be encountered. -- Craig Ringer From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Wed Jul 28 10:18:29 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 10:18:29 +0800 Subject: [plug] Crontab?? In-Reply-To: References: <1090967419.6792.12.camel@hosrv01.jtajt.local> Message-ID: <200407281018.29228@death.2.spammers> On Wednesday 28 July 2004 06:59, Denis Brown wrote: > On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Jay Warwick wrote: > > On Tue, 2004-07-27 at 20:38, James Devenish wrote: > > > Also, note that it might not be a good idea to attempt a > > > "long-running" cron job. If you test the above and it works, you > > > might then choose to change it to this in future: > > > > > > 00 21 * * fri env DISPLAY=:0 firefox & > > > be run instead. This brings me to my question - on the last line above, > > what is the meaning of the '&', does it allow the job to stay open for > > a longer period? Not at all. Cron jobs run as long as they have to; unless there's an external signal/reset/power-off. Cron only _starts_ jobs at the designated times, watches for their termination and sends an email of stdout/stderr from the job to the invoking user. It doesn't manage jobs... > The & at the end of a command line causes the command, once initiated, to > be sent "to the background" for continued execution. The means, for > example, that you can start a long job, then log off without the job > stopping (because you logged off.) As cron tasks already run detached from any terminal, the ampersand is worse than superfluous. Cron will think that the command has terminated and log the event as being completed before it's actually done. You'll also miss out on error messages from the job so won't be able to figure out why they terminate without doing what you want. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Wed Jul 28 10:34:04 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 10:34:04 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backups In-Reply-To: <1090980897.6765.32.camel@albert.localnet> References: <4105F77C.80305@smlintl.com.au> <20040727071045.GA25648@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <410606A1.2070906@postnewspapers.com.au> <41060C8A.6030705@smlintl.com.au> <410610B8.6050804@postnewspapers.com.au> <41061182.4070408@smlintl.com.au> <410623A2.2060604@postnewspapers.com.au> <4106FB68.9030604@smlintl.com.au> <1090980897.6765.32.camel@albert.localnet> Message-ID: <4107109C.9090503@smlintl.com.au> Yeah not 100% sure yet how its all going to go because upon further reading from people offering advise they say use dump for full filesystems and incremetanl full filesystems but use tar for the specifics so I don't know either way I'm gonna have to test it out prior to full running it. It might come down to me using tar for specific folders but I can't really justify to myself backing up stuff that can be updated quite quickly. Anyway going to have to sit down and have a good think. I also forgot to mention that a few databases, webpage are also in use so those are addtional folders that I completely forgot about. http://pierre.mit.edu/compfac/linux/Securing-Optimizing-Linux-RH-Edition-v1.3/chap29sec305.html Thats a link I was looking at so I might follow that advise and follow pretty much exactly with that except to dvd. My only concern is whether it works or not as in corrupted data but now I know of data verification I'm a lot less worried. Thanks for the help so far. In regards to the dvd not 100% sure I think I will have to run mkisofs anyway though. I tested it again and I think it was because I was tar from an ntfs to another file system using linux tar as a conduit or something like that at the time it was confusing the wierd thing I haven't come across it again. Marc Craig Ringer wrote: >On Wed, 2004-07-28 at 09:03, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > >>If I want to use dump the weekly full file system I would use dump -0 >>(number 0) for a full filesystem and then for the incremental just make >>the daily backups dump -1 so those are incremental. >> >> > >No idea, sorry. > >[snip] > > > >>Also because I'm unsure about size. I wanted to compress it to my >>harddrive then use a cron job to transfer to the dvd drive when I'm at work. >> >> > >File size issues are something you'll have to deal with no matter what >backup method you're using (well, unless you're streaming directly to >tape). > > > >>Yes it is dvd +- R/ +- RW so I can use read writable media, which is >>what I was planning to do mainly for cost savings. >> >> > >I thought DVD-RW was only rewritable after an erase pass, but generally >behaves much the same as a CD-R or DVD-R - you write an image, and >that's it. If so, while useful this is not what I was taking about when >I said 'randomly rewritable'. Randomly rewritable media like hard disks >can seek to any location and overwrite just that location without >affecting anything else (they can also usually do this reasonably >quickly). Basically, you need randomly rewritable media to be able to >put a normal filesystem on, and I didn't think DVD-RW qualified. > >IFAIK DVD+RW /is/ randomly rewritable, but I don't know what the driver >and filesystem support for that is like under Linux, and it has some >limitations that would make me reluctant to use it. > > > >>I had errors before which I tried to tar.gz a group of files for max >>2gig file size limit or something. >> >> > >Odd - that should only be happening with very old distros and kernels. >Could you have been saving the tar file to a different filesystem (say, >fat32)? > > > >>Is that a logical method to backup stuff or am I like off target or am I >>missing something. >> >> > >Omitting the specifics about dump, because I don't know enough to say, >it seems reasonable. You'll probably need to find a way to prevent dump >from trying to dump the dump file you're creating on the hard drive, >though. You'll also need to think about how you're going to write the >dump file to CD - you'll probably want to include it in an ISO9660 or >UDF image with mkisofs or a similar tool. It might be possible to write >the dump image onto the DVD without a filesystem, using the DVD much >like one would tape media. I haven't tested this though, and don't know >what potential issues might be encountered. > >-- >Craig Ringer > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Wed Jul 28 10:58:07 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 10:58:07 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backups In-Reply-To: <4107109C.9090503@smlintl.com.au> References: <4105F77C.80305@smlintl.com.au> <20040727071045.GA25648@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <410606A1.2070906@postnewspapers.com.au> <41060C8A.6030705@smlintl.com.au> <410610B8.6050804@postnewspapers.com.au> <41061182.4070408@smlintl.com.au> <410623A2.2060604@postnewspapers.com.au> <4106FB68.9030604@smlintl.com.au> <1090980897.6765.32.camel@albert.localnet> <4107109C.9090503@smlintl.com.au> Message-ID: <20040728025807.GA15015@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Hi, Sorry I don't have time to reply to the last few posts properly, but just quickly. In message <4107109C.9090503 at smlintl.com.au> on Wed, Jul 28, 2004 at 10:34:04AM +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Yeah not 100% sure yet how its all going to go because upon further > reading from people offering advise they say use dump for full > filesystems and incremetanl full filesystems but use tar for the > specifics Okay, I think the problem is this: while dump works fine for specifics, it will not do incremental backups for them (it will only do incrementals for entire filesystems). If you were doing your whole filesytem, you could look at it this way: the dump will give you a more faithful restoration (and not interfere with your atimes) compared to tar, even though tar is a more generally-applicable and is used vastly for day-to-day tasks. People are simply more accustomed to using tar. tar can be used by non-root users and its archives work independently of platform and filesystem. (Obviously, tar and cpio get a lot of use for the specific purpose of backups, but aren't not so good for restoring a machine to its 'exact' previous state.) By the way, there's nothing to stop you from trying both of these solutions (or any other solution). tar won't give you incrementals automatically, but if you are only backing up once per week to plentiful fixed media, incrementals might not be so important to you. dump, however, can write an independent 'table of contents', which can be faster than having to get tar to trawl through the entire DVD just to find specific files. From myk at westnet.com.au Wed Jul 28 11:23:04 2004 From: myk at westnet.com.au (Michael Holland) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 11:23:04 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Backups In-Reply-To: <41060C8A.6030705@smlintl.com.au> References: <4105F77C.80305@smlintl.com.au> <20040727071045.GA25648@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <410606A1.2070906@postnewspapers.com.au> <41060C8A.6030705@smlintl.com.au> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > I've just been doing heaps of reading up and the majority of people are > saying don't use tar because as its getting fed through programs such as > tar and cpio it alters file systems if they are mounted as read write. The atime? Not if you do it properly. See tar --atime-preserve . > stuff around apart from the 2GB file size limit but thats just how I set Best to keep the files under 2GB anyway. See my previous post on isofs problems. Tar can handle multi-volume archives. -- The best things in life go on sale sooner or later. From myk at westnet.com.au Wed Jul 28 11:33:02 2004 From: myk at westnet.com.au (Michael Holland) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 11:33:02 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] phone fax / answering machine In-Reply-To: <200407271756.00875.russ@powerstech.com> References: <200407271756.00875.russ@powerstech.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Russ Powers wrote: > Hi, > > Anybody out there use a linux box as an answering machine and fax > send/receive? Any success stories? Yes, I've used vgetty. No problems. You may need to get a compatible modem though. I think I needed a filter to convert the modem's voice file format. > Don't know how vgetty and linux would go with an on board modem or how this A what!? Get a real modem first. > would impact adsl. No problem. Just use the usual line filter. > I'd be interested in any decent gui's too. Didn't see much available. For what? You can use a GUI editor on the config file, and a GUI mail-reader to play the messages. What more could a Linux user possibly want? -- The best things in life go on sale sooner or later. From tcleary2 at csc.com.au Wed Jul 28 12:15:40 2004 From: tcleary2 at csc.com.au (tcleary2 at csc.com.au) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 12:15:40 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backups Message-ID: My $.02, as a long time dump fan is: Dump both 0 and incremental is "logically easy" because dump, although it needs a quiescent file system for a good copy, can also handle multi-volume save sets - you just keep feeding it media when they're full. This doesn't stop you taking a dump of an active filesystem, you just play a game of chance that the files you need are complete and coherent when you restore. Hopefully, if cronned, you wouldn't expect all the same files to be corrupt at the same time, from night to night - but I guess it depends how scheduled you are on your machine? As it's not a random access backup, filesystem limits don't apply - it does saves "block by block", and so talks to the raw interface of the destination device. i.e. if using a tape drive, you'd have to use the "no rewind" device as the target to get more than one dump on a tape. Dump is aware of the filesystem it's working on and doesn't save any of the "surplus", but does faithfully keep an image of the data on the f/s, including links etc. When restoring, you can select to do it interactively - in which case you get a dump prompt and can go up and down your fs to add only the files you like, but if you want to do a full restore, it's the reverse of a save - just keep feeding media. Incrementals work off the latest dump 0 date stored ( or at least it used to be... ;-) in /etc/dumpdates which is how it computes its' idea of which files to back up - it's a bit like an RDMS checkpoint. Same with restoring from incrementals - you feed it the last dump 0, then 1, then 2, then..... until you get to the last one you did and then you have the complete image since the last dump 0 on disk. And ( for me, at least ) the great joy of dump is it's a "small and stupid" utility. It does one thing well and has few complications, so when it goes off its' task you get an error, which is often ( but not always.. ) reasonably meaningful. For tar/cpio, you have to jump through hoops to get it to "just get a clean image" with loads of switches and obscure gotchas, because tar is really for file data - not making sure the files you want are coherent, and cpio is for blocks, not structured data. For me, if I want a backup of a filesystem, I'd use dump - but as you've alluded to, not REALLY for / , mostly /usr, /home and /var. And I have to say that when I started using journalled filesystems, life became easier 'cos I could bring the fs back on line and have the backups go over into the working day without having people scream - like on VAXes. Joy! ;-) HTH, Regards, tom. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tom Cleary - Security Architect CSC Perth "In IT, acceptable solutions depend upon humans - Computers don't negotiate." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in delivery. NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to bind CSC to any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit written agreement or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail for such purpose. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From senectus at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 13:19:10 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 13:19:10 +0800 Subject: [plug] Crontab?? In-Reply-To: <200407281018.29228@death.2.spammers> References: <1090967419.6792.12.camel@hosrv01.jtajt.local> <200407281018.29228@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: I'm _going_ to make these ruddy cron jobs work.. :-P But I think an *at* command would be better suited to what I want. Problem is, "at" wasn't a recognized command.. is there some package I need to install to make this work? -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From senectus at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 13:21:31 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 13:21:31 +0800 Subject: [plug] phone fax / answering machine In-Reply-To: References: <200407271756.00875.russ@powerstech.com> Message-ID: > > > would impact adsl. > > No problem. Just use the usual line filter. Just a point of interest.. If you don't use a line filter and you get a call on that line, it drops the adsl connection, if the call goes for long enough some modems (adsl modems) will not try to get sync again until its been power cycled.. Had this happen at a clients place.. took a while to find the problem :-P -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From billk at iinet.net.au Wed Jul 28 13:40:58 2004 From: billk at iinet.net.au (Bill Kenworthy) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 13:40:58 +0800 Subject: [plug] Crontab?? In-Reply-To: References: <1090967419.6792.12.camel@hosrv01.jtajt.local> <200407281018.29228@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <1090993258.9027.7.camel@cbbcbitl303c.murdoch.edu.au> emerge at$ -s .... * sys-apps/at Latest version available: 3.1.8-r9 Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ] Size of downloaded files: 106 kB Homepage: ftp://jurix.jura.uni-sb.de/pub/jurix/source/chroot/appl/at/ Description: Queues jobs for later execution License: GPL-2 ...... BillK On Wed, 2004-07-28 at 13:19, Senectus . wrote: > I'm _going_ to make these ruddy cron jobs work.. :-P > > But I think an *at* command would be better suited to what I want. > Problem is, "at" wasn't a recognized command.. is there some package I > need to install to make this work? From russ at powerstech.com Wed Jul 28 13:49:16 2004 From: russ at powerstech.com (Russ Powers) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 13:49:16 +0800 Subject: [plug] phone fax / answering machine In-Reply-To: References: <200407271756.00875.russ@powerstech.com> Message-ID: <200407281349.16544.russ@powerstech.com> On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 11:33 am, Michael Holland wrote: > On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Russ Powers wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Anybody out there use a linux box as an answering machine and fax > > send/receive? Any success stories? > > Yes, I've used vgetty. No problems. You may need to get a compatible modem > though. I think I needed a filter to convert the modem's voice file > format. > > > Don't know how vgetty and linux would go with an on board modem or how > > this > > A what!? Get a real modem first. Kinda defeats one of the reasons for doing it, to cut down on devices and power draw. I'm sure it uses less than my Brother fax. > > would impact adsl. > > No problem. Just use the usual line filter. Cool. > > > I'd be interested in any decent gui's too. Didn't see much available. > > For what? You can use a GUI editor on the config file, and a GUI > mail-reader to play the messages. What more could a Linux user possibly > want? You keep catching me on that! :-) Having read the responses and thinking more about it, yeah, probably the majority of what I want can be done with config files and cron. I was thinking along the lines of checking messages, play back. and sending faxes. > -- > The best things in life go on sale sooner or later. > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -- Regards, Russ From senectus at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 14:56:51 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 14:56:51 +0800 Subject: [plug] phone fax / answering machine In-Reply-To: <200407281349.16544.russ@powerstech.com> References: <200407271756.00875.russ@powerstech.com> <200407281349.16544.russ@powerstech.com> Message-ID: > > > Don't know how vgetty and linux would go with an on board modem or how > > > this > > > > A what!? Get a real modem first. > > Kinda defeats one of the reasons for doing it, to cut down on devices and > power draw. I'm sure it uses less than my Brother fax. > I believe the reason for this is that mgetty/vgetty is VERY particular about what modems it works with... and "win modems" suck in general. -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From senectus at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 15:01:48 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 15:01:48 +0800 Subject: [plug] Crontab?? In-Reply-To: <1090993258.9027.7.camel@cbbcbitl303c.murdoch.edu.au> References: <1090967419.6792.12.camel@hosrv01.jtajt.local> <200407281018.29228@death.2.spammers> <1090993258.9027.7.camel@cbbcbitl303c.murdoch.edu.au> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 13:40:58 +0800, Bill Kenworthy wrote: > emerge at$ -s > cool thanks.. What does the "$" do? -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From billk at iinet.net.au Wed Jul 28 15:22:15 2004 From: billk at iinet.net.au (Bill Kenworthy) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 15:22:15 +0800 Subject: [plug] Crontab?? In-Reply-To: References: <1090967419.6792.12.camel@hosrv01.jtajt.local> <200407281018.29228@death.2.spammers> <1090993258.9027.7.camel@cbbcbitl303c.murdoch.edu.au> Message-ID: <1090999332.9018.15.camel@cbbcbitl303c.murdoch.edu.au> standard regex - $ means t is the last character in the string. "at" is a very common character string in the database so it just restricts the search scope a bit - equiv to /.*at$/, what I should have given was "emerge -s ^at$" which just looks for "at" and nothing else. BillK On Wed, 2004-07-28 at 15:01, Senectus . wrote: > On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 13:40:58 +0800, Bill Kenworthy wrote: > > emerge at$ -s > > > cool thanks.. > What does the "$" do? From senectus at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 15:36:56 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 15:36:56 +0800 Subject: [plug] Crontab?? In-Reply-To: <1090999332.9018.15.camel@cbbcbitl303c.murdoch.edu.au> References: <1090967419.6792.12.camel@hosrv01.jtajt.local> <200407281018.29228@death.2.spammers> <1090993258.9027.7.camel@cbbcbitl303c.murdoch.edu.au> <1090999332.9018.15.camel@cbbcbitl303c.murdoch.edu.au> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 15:22:15 +0800, Bill Kenworthy wrote: > standard regex - $ means t is the last character in the string. "at" is > a very common character string in the database so it just restricts the > search scope a bit - equiv to /.*at$/, what I should have given was > "emerge -s ^at$" which just looks for "at" and nothing else. > > BillK Sweet.. I wondered how I was supposed to find "at".. do a normal search and it give DOZENS of replies :-P -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au Wed Jul 28 18:10:12 2004 From: jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au (Jon Miller) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 18:10:12 +0800 Subject: [plug] NTP Message-ID: I need to setup a few server to be reference their time from the main server in an organization. The gateway server will be the main server getting it's time from an external source. All other servers needs to get their time from the gateway server. Can someone point me to the right document, I had a look on www.ntp.org, but didn't see anything about setting up peer (or secondary) servers in a network. Thanks Jon L. Miller, ASE, CNS, CLS, MCNE Director/Sr Systems Consultant MMT Networks Pty Ltd http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: TEXT.htm URL: From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Wed Jul 28 17:29:23 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 17:29:23 +0800 Subject: [plug] NTP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040728092923.GA24394@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Hi, In message on Wed, Jul 28, 2004 at 06:10:12PM +0800, Jon Miller wrote: > I need to setup a few server to be reference their time from the main > server in an organization. The gateway server will be the main server > getting [its] time from an external source. All other servers needs to > get their time from the gateway server. Can someone point me to the > right document, I had a look on www.ntp.org, but didn't see anything > about setting up peer (or secondary) servers in a network. Just run `ntpd` on your gateway and your other computers. Then, configure those other machines to use the gateway. On the gateway, `ntpd` will both synchronise itself with the remote server and "listen" for connections from your other computers (by default, if I recall correctly). If you want to set up "peers", that is another matter because the term implies some sort of failover / availability arrangement (which is fine, but you probably don't need to make things complicated unless you actually want to). From myk at westnet.com.au Wed Jul 28 18:13:06 2004 From: myk at westnet.com.au (Michael Holland) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 18:13:06 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] phone fax / answering machine In-Reply-To: <200407281349.16544.russ@powerstech.com> References: <200407271756.00875.russ@powerstech.com> <200407281349.16544.russ@powerstech.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Russ Powers wrote: > > > I'd be interested in any decent gui's too. Didn't see much available. > I was thinking along the lines of checking messages, play back. and sending > faxes. For incoming voice messages and faxes, you existing mail program is all the GUI thats needed. For outgoing faxes, there are some GUI front-ends such as TkFax, but I havn't tried them. -- The best things in life go on sale sooner or later. From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Wed Jul 28 18:15:34 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 18:15:34 +0800 Subject: [plug] phone fax / answering machine In-Reply-To: References: <200407271756.00875.russ@powerstech.com> <200407281349.16544.russ@powerstech.com> Message-ID: <20040728101534.GB28319@cp.yi.org> Michael Holland wrote: > For outgoing faxes, there are some GUI front-ends such as TkFax, but I > havn't tried them. Aren't there front ends that act as a printer driver? I'm pretty sure I've seen such a beast (although admittedly it wasn't on Linux) and sounds like a vaguely sane way of doing things. Cameron. From myk at westnet.com.au Wed Jul 28 18:17:41 2004 From: myk at westnet.com.au (Michael Holland) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 18:17:41 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Crontab?? In-Reply-To: References: <20040727115433.GB17519@cp.yi.org> <20040727121619.GA2098@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <20040727122520.GB2236@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <20040727123803.GB2610@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <1090967419.6792.12.camel@hosrv01.jtajt.local> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Denis Brown wrote: > The & at the end of a command line causes the command, once initiated, to > be sent "to the background" for continued execution. The means, for > example, that you can start a long job, then log off without the job > stopping (because you logged off.) Actually, when you log off, the background process should get a HUP (hangup) signal, and exit. Otherwise its running while the controlling terminal, and probably stdout etc, have gone away or maybe are being used by someone else. Someone who, 3 days later, wonders why 10 million apparently random digits are apearing on their (virtual) terminal. > Thus you might have an hypothetical job "calculate pi to 10,000,000 > decimal places" that will probably take quite some time to complete. If -- The best things in life go on sale sooner or later. From myk at westnet.com.au Wed Jul 28 18:37:34 2004 From: myk at westnet.com.au (Michael Holland) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 18:37:34 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Backups In-Reply-To: <1090980897.6765.32.camel@albert.localnet> References: <4105F77C.80305@smlintl.com.au> <20040727071045.GA25648@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <410606A1.2070906@postnewspapers.com.au> <41060C8A.6030705@smlintl.com.au> <410610B8.6050804@postnewspapers.com.au> <41061182.4070408@smlintl.com.au> <410623A2.2060604@postnewspapers.com.au> <4106FB68.9030604@smlintl.com.au> <1090980897.6765.32.camel@albert.localnet> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Craig Ringer wrote: > IFAIK DVD+RW /is/ randomly rewritable, but I don't know what the driver > and filesystem support for that is like under Linux, and it has some > limitations that would make me reluctant to use it. You mean the limited number of write cycles? Apparently that can be OK, but you must mount it -noatime or it dies very fast. See the dvd+rw-tools package documentation. The usermode 'growisofs' program is very handy for dvd+rw. -- The best things in life go on sale sooner or later. From russ at powerstech.com Wed Jul 28 18:52:55 2004 From: russ at powerstech.com (Russ Powers) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 18:52:55 +0800 Subject: [plug] phone fax / answering machine In-Reply-To: References: <200407271756.00875.russ@powerstech.com> <200407281349.16544.russ@powerstech.com> Message-ID: <200407281852.55767.russ@powerstech.com> On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 06:13 pm, Michael Holland wrote: > On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Russ Powers wrote: > > > > I'd be interested in any decent gui's too. Didn't see much available. > > > > I was thinking along the lines of checking messages, play back. and > > sending faxes. > > For incoming voice messages and faxes, you existing mail program is all > the GUI thats needed. > For outgoing faxes, there are some GUI front-ends such as TkFax, but I > havn't tried them. So I can use kmail to read faxes and listen to messages? That's interesting and convenient. I'll give it a go. I'm sure I have at least one modem still buried in a closet somewhere around here. Thanks. > > -- > The best things in life go on sale sooner or later. > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -- Regards, Russ From russ at powerstech.com Wed Jul 28 18:57:43 2004 From: russ at powerstech.com (Russ Powers) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 18:57:43 +0800 Subject: [plug] phone fax / answering machine In-Reply-To: <20040728101534.GB28319@cp.yi.org> References: <200407271756.00875.russ@powerstech.com> <20040728101534.GB28319@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <200407281857.43138.russ@powerstech.com> On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 06:15 pm, Cameron Patrick wrote: > Michael Holland wrote: > > For outgoing faxes, there are some GUI front-ends such as TkFax, but I > > havn't tried them. > > Aren't there front ends that act as a printer driver? I'm pretty sure > I've seen such a beast (although admittedly it wasn't on Linux) and > sounds like a vaguely sane way of doing things. There's kfax at least. And I'm sure you can print to the fax using kde print manager. I had just been thinking along the lines of a single app to do it all (like my answering machine). But after all these responses, I've seen the light. :) I guess it's more logical to not do it that way. Just printing to the fax is, IMHO, a better solution. Thanks. > > Cameron. > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -- Regards, Russ From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Wed Jul 28 19:21:42 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 19:21:42 +0800 Subject: [plug] Backups In-Reply-To: References: <4105F77C.80305@smlintl.com.au> <20040727071045.GA25648@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <410606A1.2070906@postnewspapers.com.au> <41060C8A.6030705@smlintl.com.au> <410610B8.6050804@postnewspapers.com.au> <41061182.4070408@smlintl.com.au> <410623A2.2060604@postnewspapers.com.au> <4106FB68.9030604@smlintl.com.au> <1090980897.6765.32.camel@albert.localnet> Message-ID: <41078C46.6030706@postnewspapers.com.au> Michael Holland wrote: > On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Craig Ringer wrote: > > >>IFAIK DVD+RW /is/ randomly rewritable, but I don't know what the driver >>and filesystem support for that is like under Linux, and it has some >>limitations that would make me reluctant to use it. > > > You mean the limited number of write cycles? That, and the way most filesystems update the (usually fixed location) superblock(s) very frequently. AFAIK DVD+RW doesn't have any sort of write levelling like flash media does, so that could become a serious issue. > Apparently that can be OK, > but you must mount it -noatime or it dies very fast. Hmm. OK. -- Craig Ringer From brad at wasp.net.au Wed Jul 28 19:31:36 2004 From: brad at wasp.net.au (Brad Campbell) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 15:31:36 +0400 Subject: [plug] Backups In-Reply-To: <41078C46.6030706@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <4105F77C.80305@smlintl.com.au> <20040727071045.GA25648@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <410606A1.2070906@postnewspapers.com.au> <41060C8A.6030705@smlintl.com.au> <410610B8.6050804@postnewspapers.com.au> <41061182.4070408@smlintl.com.au> <410623A2.2060604@postnewspapers.com.au> <4106FB68.9030604@smlintl.com.au> <1090980897.6765.32.camel@albert.localnet> <41078C46.6030706@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <41078E98.8040003@wasp.net.au> Craig Ringer wrote: > Michael Holland wrote: > >> On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Craig Ringer wrote: >> >> >>> IFAIK DVD+RW /is/ randomly rewritable, but I don't know what the driver >>> and filesystem support for that is like under Linux, and it has some >>> limitations that would make me reluctant to use it. >> >> >> >> You mean the limited number of write cycles? > > > That, and the way most filesystems update the (usually fixed location) > superblock(s) very frequently. AFAIK DVD+RW doesn't have any sort of > write levelling like flash media does, so that could become a serious > issue. > >> Apparently that can be OK, >> but you must mount it -noatime or it dies very fast. Could be interesting to try using the mtdblock driver and writing it with a jffs2 filesystem. Fully journalled, compressed on the fly, naturally write leveling and designed for raw flash so has minimal io to maintain flash life. Might be the perfect solution. Brad From myk at westnet.com.au Wed Jul 28 20:39:34 2004 From: myk at westnet.com.au (Michael Holland) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 20:39:34 +0800 (WST) Subject: DVD+RW, Re: [plug] Backups In-Reply-To: <41078C46.6030706@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <4105F77C.80305@smlintl.com.au> <20040727071045.GA25648@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <410606A1.2070906@postnewspapers.com.au> <41060C8A.6030705@smlintl.com.au> <410610B8.6050804@postnewspapers.com.au> <41061182.4070408@smlintl.com.au> <410623A2.2060604@postnewspapers.com.au> <4106FB68.9030604@smlintl.com.au> <1090980897.6765.32.camel@albert.localnet> <41078C46.6030706@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Craig Ringer wrote: > That, and the way most filesystems update the (usually fixed location) > superblock(s) very frequently. AFAIK DVD+RW doesn't have any sort of > write levelling like flash media does, so that could become a serious issue. See http://fy.chalmers.se/~appro/linux/DVD+RW/#udf From hippo at sdf.lonestar.org Wed Jul 28 21:22:23 2004 From: hippo at sdf.lonestar.org (Michal Wirski) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 13:22:23 GMT Subject: [plug] Re: PLUG post installfest talk Message-ID: <200407281322.i6SDMN4B020262@sdf.lonestar.org> I will be most proud to do most of the distribution neutral part From jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au Thu Jul 29 00:21:10 2004 From: jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au (Jon Miller) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 00:21:10 +0800 Subject: [plug] listing with total Message-ID: What is the command to do a listing of directory with the total of the file in human form at the bottom of the listing. Thanks Jon L. Miller, ASE, CNS, CLS, MCNE Director/Sr Systems Consultant MMT Networks Pty Ltd http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby From jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au Thu Jul 29 00:24:23 2004 From: jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au (Jon Miller) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 00:24:23 +0800 Subject: [plug] listing with total Message-ID: I figured it out (du -h -c) Jon L. Miller, ASE, CNS, CLS, MCNE Director/Sr Systems Consultant MMT Networks Pty Ltd http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby >>> jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au 12:21:10 am 29/07/2004 >>> What is the command to do a listing of directory with the total of the file in human form at the bottom of the listing. Thanks Jon L. Miller, ASE, CNS, CLS, MCNE Director/Sr Systems Consultant MMT Networks Pty Ltd http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby _______________________________________________ PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au From senectus at gmail.com Thu Jul 29 05:25:02 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 05:25:02 +0800 Subject: [plug] Bandwidth limiting In-Reply-To: <410627EA.1080809@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <4106CE49.8070108@tigris.org> <410627EA.1080809@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: > Tim White wrote: > > I am looking for a bandwidth limiting program for limiting my download > > speeds. I am currently using trickle in standalone mode. What I want is > > for a bandwidth limiter to detect what other programs are using and > > never stop them from using bandwidth. Instead of reserving 20% for http > > and chat I would like it to detect if other programs are using the > > connection and to throttle then. If the connection is empty then i want > > it to use all of the bandwidth. I think I can do this using trickled but > > i havn't had time to look yet and what I did see looked complex. > > It sounds like you want a full QoS solution. I've used HTB very > succesfully, but it took me a while to learn. For a quick fix that might > work, check out WonderShaper, a CFQ/HTB setup script. > > http://lartc.org/wondershaper/ > > I found I needed to write my own script to fit my needs, so I didn't use > it, but I've heard people have good results with it for simple things. > Is this another level of QoS over shorewall's /etc/shorewall/tos ? Would it conflict with that? -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From ccornish at eftel.com.au Thu Jul 29 07:39:27 2004 From: ccornish at eftel.com.au (Chris Cornish) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 07:39:27 +0800 Subject: [plug] OT SCO anyone familier with it ? Message-ID: <001001c474fc$1fc8a400$b500a8c0@chrislaptop> Anyone know much about sco unix and how to use it. I have a friend the wants to copy files to tape on one sco machine maintainging permissions and directry structure and then restoring all files ( along with permissions and directry structure) on a different machine from the tape. Proberly a very easy ask but have been hunting for a couple of weeks for the info and have not managed to get very far , If any one can help it would be much apriciated. TIA Chris --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.713 / Virus Database: 469 - Release Date: 30/06/2004 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From onno at itmaze.com.au Thu Jul 29 08:11:53 2004 From: onno at itmaze.com.au (Onno Benschop) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 10:11:53 +1000 Subject: [plug] Testing a chain of HTTP proxies Message-ID: <1091059913.3977.7.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> I have a connection that chains a number of HTTP proxies together: galeon -> squid -> privoxy -> gilat 360e modem -> satellite proxy server -> network -> web server If I turn off the proxy it all works. If I point galeon at the modem it is broken. I suspect that either the modem proxy or the satellite proxy server that the modem points at is broken. How can I trace packets through the proxy chain to prove this? Onno Benschop Connected via Optus B3 at S27?52'30" - E151?16'25" (Millmerran, QLD) -- ()/)/)() ..ASCII for Onno.. |>>? ..EBCDIC for Onno.. --- -. -. --- ..Morse for Onno.. Proudly supported by Skipper Trucks, Highway1, Concept AV, Sony Central, Dalcon ITmaze - ABN: 56 178 057 063 - ph: 04 1219 8888 - onno at itmaze dot com dot au From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Thu Jul 29 08:17:38 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:17:38 +0800 Subject: [plug] Testing a chain of HTTP proxies In-Reply-To: <1091059913.3977.7.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> References: <1091059913.3977.7.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> Message-ID: <20040729001738.GA3880@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <1091059913.3977.7.camel at latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> on Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 10:11:53AM +1000, Onno Benschop wrote: > galeon -> squid -> privoxy -> gilat 360e modem -> > satellite proxy server -> network -> web server > > If I turn off the proxy it all works. Which one is "the" proxy??? ;-) > How can I trace packets through the proxy chain to prove this? Use generic methods of TCP analysis? From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Thu Jul 29 08:22:03 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:22:03 +0800 Subject: [plug] OT SCO anyone familier with it ? In-Reply-To: <001001c474fc$1fc8a400$b500a8c0@chrislaptop> References: <001001c474fc$1fc8a400$b500a8c0@chrislaptop> Message-ID: <200407290822.03992@death.2.spammers> On Thursday 29 July 2004 07:39, Chris Cornish wrote: > Anyone know much about sco unix and how to use it. I have a friend the > wants to copy files to tape on one sco machine maintainging permissions > and directry structure and then restoring all files ( along with > permissions and directry structure) on a different machine from the > tape. > Proberly a very easy ask but have been hunting for a couple of weeks for > the info and have not managed to get very far , If any one can help it > would be much apriciated. It's just Unix. Most reliable archive format for transfer IME has been cpio. Be careful with the format options as SCO knows a couple that are a bit odd. When extracting the tape content onto another machine, that has to be done as root to preserve ownerships. I set my umask to 000 just in case the stupid system wants to apply it to extracted files. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Thu Jul 29 08:31:48 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:31:48 +0800 Subject: [plug] Wine Message-ID: <41084574.2060609@smlintl.com.au> Ok I'm on the wine users mailing list and if I can indulge I'll post a request in this mailing list if you want to get involved. I'll also explain the program as best as I can using cut n paste. <>This is a simple thing that will seriously help wine development. The wine developers have created a test sistem to check if wine works like microsoft windows, but more users are needed to run the tests. A windows service has been created for this task, once installed, it will download the latest version of the wine tests, run them and send the results to the winehq server. So if you have a computer running windows95/98/me/xp/server2003/nt3.51/nt4 then you can really help. To run the wine tests, download and install the winrash service from this page http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=103445 thank you, Ivan. Please try and use it on computers that you will be using. While it is useful for you to have winrash installed for a while, it's better if you install it on a pc that can keep it installed indefinitly. You do't have to do anything at all to run winrash, it's an automatic program. Ivan. The tests are meant to be invisible, you'll see your results at this address http://test.winehq.com/data at the bottom of the page you'll always find the most recent tests. You can identify the results from your pc from the userid you used when you installed winrash. Ivan. The whole point of winrash is to download and run new tests when they became available, and upload the results. It's an anutomatic thing, you won't see anything. You can see the results on the wienhq server, test.winehq.com/data New tests are released almos every day. Please leave winrash installed if you can. Ivan. Hope this explains it as best as I can understand. Regards, Marc From scott at linuxit.com.au Thu Jul 29 08:54:53 2004 From: scott at linuxit.com.au (Scott Middleton) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:54:53 +0800 Subject: [plug] OT SCO anyone familier with it ? In-Reply-To: <001001c474fc$1fc8a400$b500a8c0@chrislaptop> References: <001001c474fc$1fc8a400$b500a8c0@chrislaptop> Message-ID: <1091062493.3216.2.camel@sarge.int.linuxit.com.au> Thats actually quite funny. I was just talking (literally) to Leon Brooks about doing that for a client of mine. Except we want to back up the data from a SCO box to a Linux Box. Leon charges per hour but he is a unix man. On Thu, 2004-07-29 at 07:39, Chris Cornish wrote: > Anyone know much about sco unix and how to use it. I have a friend the > wants to copy files to tape on one sco machine maintainging > permissions and directry structure and then restoring all files ( > along with permissions and directry structure) on a different machine > from the tape. > > > > Proberly a very easy ask but have been hunting for a couple of weeks > for the info and have not managed to get very far , If any one can > help it would be much apriciated. > > > > TIA > > Chris > > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.713 / Virus Database: 469 - Release Date: 30/06/2004 > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -- Scott Middleton Linux Information Technology From onno at itmaze.com.au Thu Jul 29 08:59:21 2004 From: onno at itmaze.com.au (Onno Benschop) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 10:59:21 +1000 Subject: [plug] Testing a chain of HTTP proxies In-Reply-To: <20040729001738.GA3880@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <1091059913.3977.7.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> <20040729001738.GA3880@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <1091062761.3977.11.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> On Thu, 2004-07-29 at 10:17, James Devenish wrote: > In message <1091059913.3977.7.camel at latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> > on Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 10:11:53AM +1000, Onno Benschop wrote: > > galeon -> squid -> privoxy -> gilat 360e modem -> > > satellite proxy server -> network -> web server > > > > If I turn off the proxy it all works. > > Which one is "the" proxy??? ;-) Well, "the" proxy is anything between galeon and the web server :-) > > How can I trace packets through the proxy chain to prove this? > > Use generic methods of TCP analysis? Hmm, yeah, what I was asking was, how can I send packets through the proxy and see what is happening? Of course I've already done traceroute, tcptraceroute and an etherreal capture, none of which told me anything I didn't already know, that is, one of the items in the proxy chain is broken. Of course, since this email was sent, I phoned the BOC again, only to be told that this time, others were seeing the same problem - heh, I just reported it first :-) Cheers, Onno Benschop Connected via Optus B3 at S27?52'30" - E151?16'25" (Millmerran, QLD) -- ()/)/)() ..ASCII for Onno.. |>>? ..EBCDIC for Onno.. --- -. -. --- ..Morse for Onno.. Proudly supported by Skipper Trucks, Highway1, Concept AV, Sony Central, Dalcon ITmaze - ABN: 56 178 057 063 - ph: 04 1219 8888 - onno at itmaze dot com dot au From shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au Thu Jul 29 08:59:52 2004 From: shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au (Shayne O'Neill) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:59:52 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] OT SCO anyone familier with it ? In-Reply-To: <1091062493.3216.2.camel@sarge.int.linuxit.com.au> Message-ID: My understanding is SCO unix is not dissimilar to BSD yeah? I used an SCO unix box about 5-6 years ago, and it was pretty... well.. BSD-ish. That said, I was never a root admin on the stupid thing. Also, this bizare box had no TCP stack. Never worked out what was up with that. -- "the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 27, 2003 Shayne O'Neill. http://www.perthimc.asn.au On Thu, 29 Jul 2004, Scott Middleton wrote: > Thats actually quite funny. I was just talking (literally) to Leon > Brooks about doing that for a client of mine. Except we want to back up > the data from a SCO box to a Linux Box. > Leon charges per hour but he is a unix man. > > On Thu, 2004-07-29 at 07:39, Chris Cornish wrote: > > Anyone know much about sco unix and how to use it. I have a friend the > > wants to copy files to tape on one sco machine maintainging > > permissions and directry structure and then restoring all files ( > > along with permissions and directry structure) on a different machine > > from the tape. > > > > > > > > Proberly a very easy ask but have been hunting for a couple of weeks > > for the info and have not managed to get very far , If any one can > > help it would be much apriciated. > > > > > > > > TIA > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.713 / Virus Database: 469 - Release Date: 30/06/2004 > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > -- > Scott Middleton > Linux Information Technology > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Thu Jul 29 09:33:22 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 09:33:22 +0800 Subject: [plug] OT SCO anyone familier with it ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <410853E2.5050204@postnewspapers.com.au> Shayne O'Neill wrote: > My understanding is SCO unix is not dissimilar to BSD yeah? Hmm. It seems pretty SYS-V to me: $ ps aux Usage: ps [-aAdefl] [-G groups] [-o format] [-p pids] [-t termlist] \ [-u users] [-U users] [-g pgrplist] etc. It's somewhat hybridised (has both lp and lpr, for example) but very much System V derived. > I used an SCO unix box about 5-6 years ago, and it was pretty... well.. > BSD-ish. That said, I was never a root admin on the stupid thing. Be glad, it's not overly fun. SCO's admin tools, warts and all, kick the pants of anything availible on Linux, but I think that's about the extent of the good bits. > Also, this bizare box had no TCP stack. Never worked out what was up with > that. It was an optional extra for most of the OpenServer series IIRC. Scott Middleton wrote: > Thats actually quite funny. I was just talking (literally) to Leon > Brooks about doing that for a client of mine. Except we want to back up > the data from a SCO box to a Linux Box. I'm using this to make an archive of the whole system over ssh (which you can get from ftp2.sco.com/pub/skunkware): ssh >uk_full_backup.cpio root at uk 'find / \ | egrep -v "^/dev/(core|X|rSt0|logfifo)$" \ | cpio -o -a -H newc -v' HOWEVER I have not yet done a full test restore of the resulting archive, so test first. I also think I might need '-m' on the cpio command to store modification times. Bernd Felsche wrote: > It's just Unix. Most reliable archive format for transfer IME has been > cpio. That's been my experience as well. -- Craig Ringer From simon at plumtek.com Thu Jul 29 09:19:13 2004 From: simon at plumtek.com (Simon Scott) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 09:19:13 +0800 Subject: [plug] OT SCO anyone familier with it ? In-Reply-To: <1091062493.3216.2.camel@sarge.int.linuxit.com.au> References: <001001c474fc$1fc8a400$b500a8c0@chrislaptop> <1091062493.3216.2.camel@sarge.int.linuxit.com.au> Message-ID: <200407290919.13039.simon@plumtek.com> Another person who uses SCO a lot (or did, before his love affair with linux started) is Kirk down at Comsoft in Leeming ((08) 93322044). He's usually pretty busy, but might be worth a shot if you get in trouble. He too charges by the hour tho, so weigh up $$$ vs pain. ps. Leon charges by the hour? Jeez, I think I probably owe him some $$$ and/or beer for phone consultations :D pps. I had a chuckle at the subject - I thought 'yeh, a few of us linux guys have heard of SCO in some regard.....' :D ppps. Sorry for the top post, but it seems traditional in this thread :D On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:54 am, Scott Middleton wrote: > Thats actually quite funny. I was just talking (literally) to Leon > Brooks about doing that for a client of mine. Except we want to back up > the data from a SCO box to a Linux Box. > Leon charges per hour but he is a unix man. > > On Thu, 2004-07-29 at 07:39, Chris Cornish wrote: > > Anyone know much about sco unix and how to use it. I have a friend the > > wants to copy files to tape on one sco machine maintainging > > permissions and directry structure and then restoring all files ( > > along with permissions and directry structure) on a different machine > > from the tape. > > > > > > > > Proberly a very easy ask but have been hunting for a couple of weeks > > for the info and have not managed to get very far , If any one can > > help it would be much apriciated. > > > > > > > > TIA > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.713 / Virus Database: 469 - Release Date: 30/06/2004 > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au From ahewitt at globaldial.com Thu Jul 29 09:16:34 2004 From: ahewitt at globaldial.com (Adam Hewitt) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 09:16:34 +0800 Subject: [plug] Booting linux of an iPod? Message-ID: <00f401c47509$b1a0aff0$b9023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> Hi All, I was wondering if it is possible to get a linux install onto an iPod and then get the PC/laptop to boot off USB and boot the linux install off the iPOD? The reason I ask is that I have recently changed jobs, and I have been given a laptop. However with the implementation of an SOE I am unable to modify anything on it, but I would like to be able to boot into linux to get some development work done. The reason I am asking about the iPOD, is because I would obviously need an external drive for this undertaking, but I will shortly be in the masket for a HDD mp3 player so if I could combine the two that would be awesome. Any ideas or info would be appreciated. Cheers, Adam. From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Thu Jul 29 09:48:32 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 09:48:32 +0800 Subject: [plug] Bandwidth limiting In-Reply-To: References: <4106CE49.8070108@tigris.org> <410627EA.1080809@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <41085770.3020506@postnewspapers.com.au> Senectus . wrote: >>I found I needed to write my own script to fit my needs, so I didn't use >>it, but I've heard people have good results with it for simple things. >> > Is this another level of QoS over shorewall's /etc/shorewall/tos ? > Would it conflict with that? Having never used shorewall, I have absolutely no idea. I should've noted in my original mesage, by the way, that you DO need to run your QoS services on a gateway machine, not the endpoint, as QoS abilities incoming data under Linux are limited or nonexistent. (Why, I don't know. What's the difference between drop on forward and drop on input, really?) -- Craig Ringer From tsuki_yomi at zephilia.dyndns.org Thu Jul 29 09:50:16 2004 From: tsuki_yomi at zephilia.dyndns.org (James Budworth) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 09:50:16 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Booting linux of an iPod? In-Reply-To: <00f401c47509$b1a0aff0$b9023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> References: <00f401c47509$b1a0aff0$b9023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Jul 2004, Adam Hewitt wrote: > Hi All, > > I was wondering if it is possible to get a linux install onto an iPod > and then get the PC/laptop to boot off USB and boot the linux install > off the iPOD? The reason I ask is that I have recently changed jobs, and > I have been given a laptop. However with the implementation of an SOE I > am unable to modify anything on it, but I would like to be able to boot > into linux to get some development work done. > > The reason I am asking about the iPOD, is because I would obviously need > an external drive for this undertaking, but I will shortly be in the > masket for a HDD mp3 player so if I could combine the two that would be > awesome. > > Any ideas or info would be appreciated. > > Cheers, > > Adam. Well the first thing you will need to check is that the laptop itself will actually boot from USB. There are quite a few machine nowadays that will boot from USB, but my expiriences with with a bootable USB memory stick have shown that not all machines WILL actually boot from USB despite saying thay will. Other than that, it _should_ work. But you will have to be careful about messing with the iPod's firmware partition. Mess that up and you will have to restore the firmware again. -- James Budworth From jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au Thu Jul 29 10:53:10 2004 From: jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au (Jon Miller) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 10:53:10 +0800 Subject: [plug] NTP Message-ID: The other servers in the network still are not updating there time to the main server: # ntpdate -d 192.168.1.1 29 Jul 10:20:35 ntpdate[18249]: ntpdate 4.1.1a at 1.791 Sat Aug 31 18:27:31 EDT 2002 (1) transmit(192.168.1.1) transmit(192.168.1.1) transmit(192.168.1.1) transmit(192.168.1.1) transmit(192.168.1.1) 192.168.1.1: Server dropped: no data server 192.168.1.1, port 123 stratum 0, precision 0, leap 00, trust 000 refid [0.0.0.0], delay 0.00000, dispersion 64.00000 transmitted 4, in filter 4 reference time: 00000000.00000000 Thu, Feb 7 2036 14:28:16.000 originate timestamp: 00000000.00000000 Thu, Feb 7 2036 14:28:16.000 transmit timestamp: c4b2dd76.d348b220 Thu, Jul 29 2004 10:20:38.825 filter delay: 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 filter offset: 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 delay 0.00000, dispersion 64.00000 offset 0.000000 29 Jul 10:20:39 ntpdate[18249]: no server suitable for synchronization found Where it states server dropped "192.168.1.1: Server dropped: no data ", does this means the main server is not responding or ignoring requests? I'm thinking the main servershould be sending multicast packets or broadcast packets ? Is this correct? Jon Jon L. Miller, ASE, CNS, CLS, MCNE Director/Sr Systems Consultant MMT Networks Pty Ltd http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby >>> devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au 5:29:23 pm 28/07/2004 >>> Hi, In message on Wed, Jul 28, 2004 at 06:10:12PM +0800, Jon Miller wrote: > I need to setup a few server to be reference their time from the main > server in an organization. The gateway server will be the main server > getting [its] time from an external source. All other servers needs to > get their time from the gateway server. Can someone point me to the > right document, I had a look on www.ntp.org, but didn't see anything > about setting up peer (or secondary) servers in a network. Just run `ntpd` on your gateway and your other computers. Then, configure those other machines to use the gateway. On the gateway, `ntpd` will both synchronise itself with the remote server and "listen" for connections from your other computers (by default, if I recall correctly). If you want to set up "peers", that is another matter because the term implies some sort of failover / availability arrangement (which is fine, but you probably don't need to make things complicated unless you actually want to). _______________________________________________ PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au From onno at itmaze.com.au Thu Jul 29 10:25:20 2004 From: onno at itmaze.com.au (Onno Benschop) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 12:25:20 +1000 Subject: [plug] Booting linux of an iPod? In-Reply-To: <00f401c47509$b1a0aff0$b9023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> References: <00f401c47509$b1a0aff0$b9023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <1091067919.3977.35.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> On Thu, 2004-07-29 at 11:16, Adam Hewitt wrote: > Hi All, > > I was wondering if it is possible to get a linux install onto an iPod > and then get the PC/laptop to boot off USB and boot the linux install > off the iPOD? The reason I ask is that I have recently changed jobs, and > I have been given a laptop. However with the implementation of an SOE I > am unable to modify anything on it, but I would like to be able to boot > into linux to get some development work done. Well, I would boot from a Knoppix CD if it were me. You can store your files on the laptop without affecting your SOE in any way. I realise there are other live CDs out there, but why would I recommend a non-debian solution ;-) Cheers, Onno Benschop Connected via Optus B3 at S27?52'30" - E151?16'25" (Millmerran, QLD) -- ()/)/)() ..ASCII for Onno.. |>>? ..EBCDIC for Onno.. --- -. -. --- ..Morse for Onno.. Proudly supported by Skipper Trucks, Highway1, Concept AV, Sony Central, Dalcon ITmaze - ABN: 56 178 057 063 - ph: 04 1219 8888 - onno at itmaze dot com dot au From myk at westnet.com.au Thu Jul 29 10:54:59 2004 From: myk at westnet.com.au (Michael Holland) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 10:54:59 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] listing with total In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Jul 2004, Jon Miller wrote: > I figured it out (du -h -c) But that doesn't list the files, as the OP requested, just sub-directories. > >>> jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au 12:21:10 am 29/07/2004 >>> > What is the command to do a listing of directory with the total of the > file in human form at the bottom of the listing. Try "ls -hs". Almost, except the total is at the top. Then "ls -hsr | tac" bingo! -- The best things in life go on sale sooner or later. From myk at westnet.com.au Thu Jul 29 11:05:18 2004 From: myk at westnet.com.au (Michael Holland) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 11:05:18 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] OT SCO anyone familier with it ? In-Reply-To: <1091062493.3216.2.camel@sarge.int.linuxit.com.au> References: <001001c474fc$1fc8a400$b500a8c0@chrislaptop> <1091062493.3216.2.camel@sarge.int.linuxit.com.au> Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Jul 2004, Scott Middleton wrote: > Thats actually quite funny. I was just talking (literally) to Leon > Brooks about doing that for a client of mine. Except we want to back up > the data from a SCO box to a Linux Box. Did Leon suggest installing the Gnu tools on SCO? Gnu tar (unlike SCO) should preserve attributes. And you can have the same version on both sides. > On Thu, 2004-07-29 at 07:39, Chris Cornish wrote: > > Anyone know much about sco unix and how to use it. I have a friend the What version? -- The best things in life go on sale sooner or later. From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Thu Jul 29 11:31:30 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 11:31:30 +0800 Subject: [plug] OT SCO anyone familier with it ? In-Reply-To: References: <001001c474fc$1fc8a400$b500a8c0@chrislaptop> <1091062493.3216.2.camel@sarge.int.linuxit.com.au> Message-ID: <41086F92.6030605@postnewspapers.com.au> Michael Holland wrote: > On Thu, 29 Jul 2004, Scott Middleton wrote: > > >>Thats actually quite funny. I was just talking (literally) to Leon >>Brooks about doing that for a client of mine. Except we want to back up >>the data from a SCO box to a Linux Box. > > > Did Leon suggest installing the Gnu tools on SCO? Gnu tar (unlike SCO) > should preserve attributes. And you can have the same version on both > sides. You can get OpenSSH, GNU tar, bash, screen, vim, and all the other things that help keep an admin used to a modern system sane from skunkware. ftp://ftp2.sco.com/pub/skunkware They're packaged to be easy to install using `custom` (the OpenServer 5.x ones, anyway) and install in /usr/local so they won't tread on anything else. >>On Thu, 2004-07-29 at 07:39, Chris Cornish wrote: >> >>>Anyone know much about sco unix and how to use it. I have a friend the > > What version? Most people who ask about it seem to be running OpenServer 5.0.[3456] but it's definitely worth asking. -- Craig Ringer From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Thu Jul 29 11:40:42 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 11:40:42 +0800 Subject: [plug] OT SCO anyone familier with it ? In-Reply-To: <41086F92.6030605@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <001001c474fc$1fc8a400$b500a8c0@chrislaptop> <1091062493.3216.2.camel@sarge.int.linuxit.com.au> <41086F92.6030605@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <410871BA.5030600@smlintl.com.au> I believe if you want a list of all open source or gnu software the gnu main page has a link to a list. http://www.gnu.org Your probably knew that though so if you didn't there it is. HTH Marc Craig Ringer wrote: > Michael Holland wrote: > >> On Thu, 29 Jul 2004, Scott Middleton wrote: >> >> >>> Thats actually quite funny. I was just talking (literally) to Leon >>> Brooks about doing that for a client of mine. Except we want to back up >>> the data from a SCO box to a Linux Box. >> >> >> >> Did Leon suggest installing the Gnu tools on SCO? Gnu tar (unlike SCO) >> should preserve attributes. And you can have the same version on both >> sides. > > > You can get OpenSSH, GNU tar, bash, screen, vim, and all the other > things that help keep an admin used to a modern system sane from > skunkware. > > ftp://ftp2.sco.com/pub/skunkware > > They're packaged to be easy to install using `custom` (the OpenServer > 5.x ones, anyway) and install in /usr/local so they won't tread on > anything else. > >>> On Thu, 2004-07-29 at 07:39, Chris Cornish wrote: >>> >>>> Anyone know much about sco unix and how to use it. I have a friend the >>> >> >> What version? > > > Most people who ask about it seem to be running OpenServer 5.0.[3456] > but it's definitely worth asking. > > -- > Craig Ringer > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au Thu Jul 29 12:33:28 2004 From: jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au (Jon Miller) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 12:33:28 +0800 Subject: [plug] listing with total Message-ID: I didn't put the entire command in my reply. while in the directory I needed to find out the size and total of the .MYI files du -h -c *.MYI did the trick for me. Jon Jon L. Miller, ASE, CNS, CLS, MCNE Director/Sr Systems Consultant MMT Networks Pty Ltd http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby >>> myk at westnet.com.au 10:54:59 am 29/07/2004 >>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2004, Jon Miller wrote: > I figured it out (du -h -c) But that doesn't list the files, as the OP requested, just sub-directories. > >>> jlmiller at mmtnetworks.com.au 12:21:10 am 29/07/2004 >>> > What is the command to do a listing of directory with the total of the > file in human form at the bottom of the listing. Try "ls -hs". Almost, except the total is at the top. Then "ls -hsr | tac" bingo! -- The best things in life go on sale sooner or later. _______________________________________________ PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au From harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au Thu Jul 29 11:45:18 2004 From: harrymc at decisions-and-designs.com.au (Harry) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 11:45:18 +0800 Subject: [plug] Providing access to technology for people with disabilities Message-ID: <20040729114518.78410ba1.harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au> PLUGers I've contacted Iain Murray who is giving a talk at IEAust about his work in this area. See: http://bauhaus.ece.curtin.edu.au/~ieee/activities/seminars.html See the entry at the top for Wed 11 Aug 2004 5.30 pm Iain explained that they are using GPL for their R & D work and will be speaking about hardware they have developed. Iain spoke a few years ago about web access for vision impaired people using (then) M$ and costly proprietary s/w. His move to GPL means access to assistive technologies without financial barriers. This talk would be of particular interest to comp sci and engineering students who need to consider project proposals for final year and masters projects. Projects of this type can provide a well rounded exposure to mechatronics and software development. His last talk was also interesting because the HCI requirements for his work gives a new perspective on GUI development. So GUI hackers might be interested in attending to see what he is doing. The talks are open to the public and the Joint Electrical Technical Program committee provide sandwiches, beer and a chance for a chin wag afterwards too ;-) Harry -- Are you a computer angel? http://www.computerangels.org.au/ From simon at plumtek.com Thu Jul 29 12:06:26 2004 From: simon at plumtek.com (Simon Scott) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 12:06:26 +0800 Subject: [plug] weird Mandrake 10 problem Message-ID: <200407291206.26427.simon@plumtek.com> Hey all Ive been having a few issues with cdrecord and mandrake 10. k3b refuses to detect which speeds the drive will run at, so it always switches back to 0x (full speed!) which is a pain.... so I went looking for a newer version of cdrecord, and it now seems that my urpmi database is corrupt.... [root at leela simon]# urpmq --sources cdrecord The following packages contain cdrecord: cdrecord-cdda2wav cdrecord-devel so it cant even find the cdrecord package on the original disks! I then went to try to update the install media to fix it, but now I get (for example, when trying to update disk 2): examining synthesis file [/var/lib/urpmi/synthesis.hdlist.Installation CD 1 (x86) (cdrom1).cz] mounting /mnt/cdrom unable to access medium "Installation CD 2 (x86) (cdrom2)", this could happen if you mounted manually the directory when creating the medium. This is even tho I have the disk in the drive, and ls /mnt/cdrom shows that it is mounted...... Anybody have anything similar to these problems? as an aside, k3bsetup crashes for me..... which is part of the k3b package. However, there dont appear to be any updates for it. Lastly, how do I force a reinstall with urpmi? Thanks From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Thu Jul 29 12:16:38 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 12:16:38 +0800 Subject: [plug] weird Mandrake 10 problem In-Reply-To: <200407291206.26427.simon@plumtek.com> References: <200407291206.26427.simon@plumtek.com> Message-ID: <41087A26.4040300@smlintl.com.au> I've done a something similar which is remove then re-install and go from there. In regards to corrupt database I switched from yum to apt-get which you can find off rpm.find and things like that. HTH Marc Simon Scott wrote: >Hey all > >Ive been having a few issues with cdrecord and mandrake 10. k3b refuses to >detect which speeds the drive will run at, so it always switches back to 0x >(full speed!) which is a pain.... so I went looking for a newer version of >cdrecord, and it now seems that my urpmi database is corrupt.... > >[root at leela simon]# urpmq --sources cdrecord >The following packages contain cdrecord: >cdrecord-cdda2wav >cdrecord-devel > > >so it cant even find the cdrecord package on the original disks! I then went >to try to update the install media to fix it, but now I get (for example, >when trying to update disk 2): > >examining synthesis file [/var/lib/urpmi/synthesis.hdlist.Installation CD 1 >(x86) (cdrom1).cz] >mounting /mnt/cdrom >unable to access medium "Installation CD 2 (x86) (cdrom2)", >this could happen if you mounted manually the directory when creating the >medium. > >This is even tho I have the disk in the drive, and ls /mnt/cdrom shows that it >is mounted...... > >Anybody have anything similar to these problems? as an aside, k3bsetup >crashes for me..... which is part of the k3b package. However, there dont >appear to be any updates for it. > >Lastly, how do I force a reinstall with urpmi? > >Thanks >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > From j-conversations at decisions-and-designs.com.au Thu Jul 29 13:31:49 2004 From: j-conversations at decisions-and-designs.com.au (Jacqueline McNally) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 13:31:49 +0800 Subject: [plug] OpenOffice.org Conference (OOoCon 2004) Message-ID: <41088BC5.1010307@decisions-and-designs.com.au> Hello There is still time to submit an abstract in response to the call for papers, see: http://marketing.openoffice.org/ooocon2004/cfp.html Closing date is Saturday 31 July. Three days time. Registrations are open, see: http://marketing.openoffice.org/ooocon2004/registration.html A few weeks yet, but it does take time to organise flights and accomodation from Western Australia. So need to look into that before you can start counting sleeps :) All the best Jacqueline McNally -- wOO hOO! OOo for three whole days OpenOffice.org Conference 2004 22nd - 24th September, Berlin, Germany http://marketing.openoffice.org/conference/ From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Thu Jul 29 13:37:31 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 13:37:31 +0800 Subject: [plug] OT SCO anyone familier with it ? In-Reply-To: <410871BA.5030600@smlintl.com.au> References: <001001c474fc$1fc8a400$b500a8c0@chrislaptop> <1091062493.3216.2.camel@sarge.int.linuxit.com.au> <41086F92.6030605@postnewspapers.com.au> <410871BA.5030600@smlintl.com.au> Message-ID: <20040729053731.GA13002@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <410871BA.5030600 at smlintl.com.au> on Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 11:40:42AM +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > I believe if you want a list of all open source or gnu software the gnu > main page has a link to a list. Um, er...that's only true in as much as the GNU website contains a list of GNU software. However, it is NOT a list of "all open source software" nor even a list of "all software under a GNU licence". (In fact, it lists only a very small amount of open source software.) For instance, two of the programmes mentioned by Craig (OpenSSH and vim) are neither GNU projects nor GNU-licensed. The easiest place to find software is `apt-get search` (or equivalent) ;-) Open-source UNIX and Linux software can also be found more generally through Google or dedicated sites (e.g. http://www.freshmeat.org and http://www.sourceforge.net). And PLUG ;-) Craig Ringer wrote: > You can get OpenSSH, GNU tar, bash, screen, vim, and all the other > things that help keep an admin used to a modern system sane from > skunkware. From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Thu Jul 29 13:46:13 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 13:46:13 +0800 Subject: [plug] Bandwidth limiting In-Reply-To: <41085770.3020506@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <4106CE49.8070108@tigris.org> <410627EA.1080809@postnewspapers.com.au> <41085770.3020506@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <20040729054613.GB19548@patrick.wattle.id.au> Craig Ringer wrote: > QoS services on a gateway machine, not the endpoint, as QoS abilities > incoming data under Linux are limited or nonexistent. (Why, I don't > know. What's the difference between drop on forward and drop on input, > really?) Are you sure they're nonexistent? I have a script that I created by half-understanding the voodoo on lartc.org which throttles incoming data from a certain host... I'd be surprised if you couldn't do more if you were good with dribbly candles. Cameron. From mark at musicalstoat.co.uk Thu Jul 29 14:03:45 2004 From: mark at musicalstoat.co.uk (Mark O'Shea) Date: 29 Jul 2004 14:03:45 +0800 Subject: [plug] Bandwidth limiting In-Reply-To: <41085770.3020506@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <4106CE49.8070108@tigris.org> <410627EA.1080809@postnewspapers.com.au> <41085770.3020506@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <1091081026.947.5.camel@anya> On Thu, 2004-07-29 at 09:48, Craig Ringer wrote: > Having never used shorewall, I have absolutely no idea. I should've > noted in my original mesage, by the way, that you DO need to run your > QoS services on a gateway machine, not the endpoint, as QoS abilities > incoming data under Linux are limited or nonexistent. (Why, I don't > know. What's the difference between drop on forward and drop on input, > really?) > Well it's a little pointless throttling input on the endpoint. The packets are still being sent to you at the same rate, your machine has received them and started to process them, so what's the gain? It does seem a little unlinux-like to not have the option though if you really want to. -- Mark O'Shea From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Thu Jul 29 14:05:40 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 14:05:40 +0800 Subject: [plug] OT SCO anyone familier with it ? In-Reply-To: <20040729053731.GA13002@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <001001c474fc$1fc8a400$b500a8c0@chrislaptop> <1091062493.3216.2.camel@sarge.int.linuxit.com.au> <41086F92.6030605@postnewspapers.com.au> <410871BA.5030600@smlintl.com.au> <20040729053731.GA13002@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <410893B4.3050405@smlintl.com.au> My apologies I actually thought it was for all since that web site is proposing the gnu mantra so I would have thought that it would have a list of all gnu software. Soz Marc James Devenish wrote: >In message <410871BA.5030600 at smlintl.com.au> >on Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 11:40:42AM +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > >>I believe if you want a list of all open source or gnu software the gnu >>main page has a link to a list. >> >> > >Um, er...that's only true in as much as the GNU website contains a list >of GNU software. However, it is NOT a list of "all open source software" >nor even a list of "all software under a GNU licence". (In fact, it >lists only a very small amount of open source software.) For instance, >two of the programmes mentioned by Craig (OpenSSH and vim) are neither >GNU projects nor GNU-licensed. The easiest place to find software is >`apt-get search` (or equivalent) ;-) Open-source UNIX and Linux software >can also be found more generally through Google or dedicated sites (e.g. >http://www.freshmeat.org and http://www.sourceforge.net). And PLUG ;-) > >Craig Ringer wrote: > > >>You can get OpenSSH, GNU tar, bash, screen, vim, and all the other >>things that help keep an admin used to a modern system sane from >>skunkware. >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Thu Jul 29 14:18:34 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 14:18:34 +0800 Subject: [plug] OT SCO anyone familier with it ? In-Reply-To: <410893B4.3050405@smlintl.com.au> References: <001001c474fc$1fc8a400$b500a8c0@chrislaptop> <1091062493.3216.2.camel@sarge.int.linuxit.com.au> <41086F92.6030605@postnewspapers.com.au> <410871BA.5030600@smlintl.com.au> <20040729053731.GA13002@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <410893B4.3050405@smlintl.com.au> Message-ID: <20040729061832.GA14334@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <410893B4.3050405 at smlintl.com.au> on Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 02:05:40PM +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > My apologies I actually thought it was for all since that web site is > proposing the gnu mantra so I would have thought that it would have a > list of all gnu software. No worries, but just to clarify: the GNU website *does* have a list of all GNU software. All GNU software is (I assume) licensed under a version of GNU's licence, known as the GNU GPL. But GNU is a distinct project that represents only a "subnet" of all open-source software. Any person can license their own work using the GPL (because the licence can be used by anyone), but that does not mean such software becomes part of the GNU project itself. (It only forms part of the GNU project if it is inducted by the FSF -- I think that most GPL software projects exist outside of the GNU project.) Therefore, such projects are not "GNU software" and the FSF does not have a definitive list of them. From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Thu Jul 29 14:26:21 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 14:26:21 +0800 Subject: [plug] OT SCO anyone familier with it ? In-Reply-To: <20040729061832.GA14334@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <001001c474fc$1fc8a400$b500a8c0@chrislaptop> <1091062493.3216.2.camel@sarge.int.linuxit.com.au> <41086F92.6030605@postnewspapers.com.au> <410871BA.5030600@smlintl.com.au> <20040729053731.GA13002@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <410893B4.3050405@smlintl.com.au> <20040729061832.GA14334@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <4108988D.7060101@smlintl.com.au> Ok that makes it clear as mud but at the end of the GNU is separate to the FSF is the GPL is different again. I thought they were all inter-linked as in GNU software was using the GPL and FSF was anything that was opensource using the GPL. Correct me if I'm wrong but all these different acronyms get a bit confusing. Marc James Devenish wrote: >In message <410893B4.3050405 at smlintl.com.au> >on Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 02:05:40PM +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > >>My apologies I actually thought it was for all since that web site is >>proposing the gnu mantra so I would have thought that it would have a >>list of all gnu software. >> >> > >No worries, but just to clarify: the GNU website *does* have a list of >all GNU software. All GNU software is (I assume) licensed under a >version of GNU's licence, known as the GNU GPL. But GNU is a distinct >project that represents only a "subnet" of all open-source software. Any >person can license their own work using the GPL (because the licence can >be used by anyone), but that does not mean such software becomes part of >the GNU project itself. (It only forms part of the GNU project if it is >inducted by the FSF -- I think that most GPL software projects exist >outside of the GNU project.) Therefore, such projects are not "GNU >software" and the FSF does not have a definitive list of them. > > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Thu Jul 29 14:35:01 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 14:35:01 +0800 Subject: [plug] Bandwidth limiting In-Reply-To: <1091081026.947.5.camel@anya> References: <4106CE49.8070108@tigris.org> <410627EA.1080809@postnewspapers.com.au> <41085770.3020506@postnewspapers.com.au> <1091081026.947.5.camel@anya> Message-ID: <41089A95.1020701@postnewspapers.com.au> Mark O'Shea wrote: > Well it's a little pointless throttling input on the endpoint. The > packets are still being sent to you at the same rate, your machine has > received them and started to process them, so what's the gain? Quite a lot - it's the only control you have. What you do is drop packets as the data rate exceeds a certain threshold. This causes the TCP/IP send algorithm at the sending end to throttle back sending (as it will do whenever packets start getting dropped). Because TCP/IP doesn't have any side-channels for bandwidth negotiation etc, this is the only way you can communicate with the remote host to ask them to slow down. So, while you loose the odd packet (just like you will in any normal TCP/IP connection), you gain control and often a smoother traffic flow. It would be very nice if my ISP would give me administration rights on the router at the other end of my ADSL link, permitting me to impose a more ideal solution. As I don't see this happening, I'm very happy to make use of the control provided by QoS under Linux. [A quick explanation, if it's useful, follows. I'm no expert in this, so be aware that this is just my own understanding of the situation.] One thing that helps make this more effective, by the way, is to cap the total incoming and outgoing data rates at 95% of the maximum supported by your line. It sounds crazy, but this can make your 'net connection faster in one measure - one that matters a lot. What you're doing is sacrificing throughput for control over latency, something that matters a lot if you use ssh, IRC, IM, IMAP mail, games, or anything else interactive. Even normal web browsing and FTP can benefit. The reason capping your connection helps is twofold. For one, your ISP's router will usually keep very deep packet queue so that stalls or gaps in upstream transmission don't interrupt transmission down your link. It's much the same principle as buffering in streming media applications. The cost of this is that a packet for some interactive service can sit for quite a while (relatively) in the queue behind packets from some bulk data transfer, resulting in long packet round trip delays and awful latency. Also, the chances are that your ISP's router doesn't attempt to prioritise packets. It probably doesn't send interactive traffic to the front of the queue, for example. For one thing, it's hard for it to know what traffic /is/ interactive - all it has to go by is the ToS (Type of Service) flag in the packet, and that's not reliably set by lots of programs. Second, it might just not care. If you cap your connection at about 95% of max speed, then there will be no deep queue at the router, because you're moving the bottleneck down the line to yourself. The ISP's router will almost always be able to forward the packet on as soon as it arrives. This, by its self, helps improve latency, because you can choose to maintain much shallower queues on your system if you prefer. You can go further than that, though. If you control the bottleneck, you can do things like putting some types of traffic to the back of the queue, so they're only sent if nothing else more important is waiting. You can also make sure that certain high-priority traffic gets sent as soon as possible, even if there's lots of other traffic waiting. If you're trying to use SSH or a remote X11 application while lobbing huge chunks of data between networks, this is bliss. Note that you can't control when you receive traffic - you have to use the trick with dropping packets to get the other end to slow down, instead. This is usually done by dropping them as they're to be sent (forwarded) out of the "LAN" network interface on your firewall/gateway. So ... in conclusion, I think there are a lot of good reasons to throttle input at the endpoint, mostly thanks to the wonderful flexibility of TCP/IP. If anybody can point out a nice way to use the same QoS tools (tc, HTB, SFQ, etc) to control input rates directly, I'll be happy. Suggestions involving forwarding packets between virtual interfaces created with iproute2 will result in a sound (if remote) whack with a spade - QoS is already quite complicated enough to set up and debug. -- Craig Ringer From mark at musicalstoat.co.uk Thu Jul 29 14:50:59 2004 From: mark at musicalstoat.co.uk (Mark O'Shea) Date: 29 Jul 2004 14:50:59 +0800 Subject: [plug] Bandwidth limiting In-Reply-To: <41089A95.1020701@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <4106CE49.8070108@tigris.org> <410627EA.1080809@postnewspapers.com.au> <41085770.3020506@postnewspapers.com.au> <1091081026.947.5.camel@anya> <41089A95.1020701@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <1091083860.947.19.camel@anya> On Thu, 2004-07-29 at 14:35, Craig Ringer wrote: > Quite a lot <--snip reasons--> I stand corrected. Thanks for taking the time for such a detailed explanation. /me goes off to learn more about QoS in Linux. Regards, -- Mark O'Shea From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Thu Jul 29 15:30:00 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 15:30:00 +0800 Subject: [plug] ownership Message-ID: <4108A778.40304@smlintl.com.au> I'm starting to get a lot of confusing errors with my servers and authorities and stuff so in the process I've got like a few simple questions but I just can't remember the answer thats all. 1. How do I enforce something going into a folder to be changed to the permissions of that folder ignoring what the users rights are. e.g. I have on my desktop a folder I transfer it to the /workdir on the server and people can't access it because the permissions are still what permisssions are on my computer. 2. I can't seem to login to the computer as anything but root as soon as I put my password in putty dies turns off? Now if I ssh into it using the ssh marc-w at blah.com.au it spits out this error in the /var/log/messages Jul 29 15:19:20 dhcp-192-168-0-104 gdm(pam_unix)[2454]: session opened for user marc-w by (uid=0) Jul 29 15:19:35 dhcp-192-168-0-104 gconfd (marc-w-3362): starting (version 2.6.0), pid 3362 user 'marc-w' Jul 29 15:19:35 dhcp-192-168-0-104 gconfd (marc-w-3362): Resolved address "xml:readonly:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory" to a read-only config source at position 0 Jul 29 15:19:35 dhcp-192-168-0-104 gconfd (marc-w-3362): Resolved address "xml:readwrite:/home/marc-w/.gconf" to a writable config source at position 1 Jul 29 15:19:35 dhcp-192-168-0-104 gconfd (marc-w-3362): Resolved address "xml:readonly:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults" to a read-only config source at position 2 Jul 29 15:19:38 dhcp-192-168-0-104 bonobo-activation-server (marc-w-3366): iid OAFIID:BrokenNoType:20000808 has a NULL type Jul 29 15:19:38 dhcp-192-168-0-104 bonobo-activation-server (marc-w-3366): invalid character '#' in iid 'OAFIID:This#!!%$iid%^$%_|~!OAFIID_ContainsBadChars' 3. Lastly I have a samba login specifying my username and password in an auth.smb file with correct passwords uid and gid as well. If I try to gui see it using kde it says I'm not allowed to if I go in through the console or konsole it allows me in there using the /mnt/ sections same folders same mountings. Any help would be appreciated. Marc From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Thu Jul 29 15:38:40 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 15:38:40 +0800 Subject: [plug] ownership In-Reply-To: <4108A778.40304@smlintl.com.au> References: <4108A778.40304@smlintl.com.au> Message-ID: <20040729073840.GA917@cp.yi.org> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > 1. How do I enforce something going into a folder to be changed to the > permissions of that folder ignoring what the users rights are. *sigh* There's no easy way. If it's an smb-mounted directory from a Samba server you can use appropriate settings on the server to force the permissions. Otherwise you can do something similar using Posix ACLs -- but I haven't got around to playing with those because for my purposes I can get away with having all accesses to the shared directory go through Samba. > e.g. I have on my desktop a folder I transfer it to the /workdir on the > server and people can't access it because the permissions are still what > permisssions are on my computer. Use chmod? :-P > 2. I can't seem to login to the computer as anything but root as soon as > I put my password in putty dies turns off? Dunno, I can't make head or tail of the logs. > 3. Lastly I have a samba login specifying my username and password in an > auth.smb file with correct passwords uid and gid as well. If I try to > gui see it using kde it says I'm not allowed to if I go in through the > console or konsole it allows me in there using the /mnt/ sections same > folders same mountings. Perhaps you need to specify the password in KDE? (The password to use for connecting to SMB shares is hidden somewhere in Control Centre.) Cameron. From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Thu Jul 29 15:51:20 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 15:51:20 +0800 Subject: [plug] ownership In-Reply-To: <4108A778.40304@smlintl.com.au> References: <4108A778.40304@smlintl.com.au> Message-ID: <20040729075120.GA16665@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <4108A778.40304 at smlintl.com.au> on Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 03:30:00PM +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > 1. How do I enforce something going into a folder to be changed to the > permissions of that folder ignoring what the users rights are. > e.g. I have on my desktop a folder I transfer Via what means are you transferring those files? > 2. I can't seem to login to the computer as anything but root as soon as > I put my password in putty dies turns off? Now if I ssh into it using > the ssh marc-w at blah.com.au it spits out this error in the /var/log/messages > > Jul 29 15:19:20 dhcp-192-168-0-104 gdm(pam_unix)[2454]: session opened > for user marc-w by (uid=0) Um...I don't quite understand either your description or the relevance of the log lines. I imagine that you are using PuTTY to connect from a Windows machine to a Linux machine over a network. However, the above log lines pertain to "gdm", which is a Linux display manager (i.e. pretty much nothing to do with SSH). From shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au Thu Jul 29 15:52:39 2004 From: shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au (Shayne O'Neill) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 15:52:39 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] init load order Message-ID: Hey. On the guilds secure massmail (student notification) and db server I'm havign a problem with load order. The mailer is a custom hacked mailman with a mysql backend. Problem is , that the system loads mailman's qrunner before mysql loads, causing the qrunner to get puzzled and fall on its head. How do I change the load order. This is a non gui machine with an ultra minimal set of servers. -- "the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 27, 2003 Shayne O'Neill. http://www.perthimc.asn.au From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Thu Jul 29 15:55:47 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 15:55:47 +0800 Subject: [plug] OT SCO anyone familier with it ? In-Reply-To: <4108988D.7060101@smlintl.com.au> References: <001001c474fc$1fc8a400$b500a8c0@chrislaptop> <1091062493.3216.2.camel@sarge.int.linuxit.com.au> <41086F92.6030605@postnewspapers.com.au> <410871BA.5030600@smlintl.com.au> <20040729053731.GA13002@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <410893B4.3050405@smlintl.com.au> <20040729061832.GA14334@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <4108988D.7060101@smlintl.com.au> Message-ID: <20040729075547.GB16665@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <4108988D.7060101 at smlintl.com.au> on Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 02:26:21PM +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Ok that makes it clear as mud but at the end of the GNU is separate to > the FSF is the GPL is different again. I thought they were all > inter-linked as in GNU software was using the GPL and FSF was anything > that was opensource using the GPL. At http://www.gnu.org there is a description of the FSF and the GNU project. The FSF is an organisation. GNU is a project of the FSF. The GPL is a document administered by the FSF and used as part of the GNU project. Anything that the FSF incorporates into the GNU project is open source, and uses the GPL. However, open source is a phenomenon/concept that also exists throughout the wider world (without needing to have any direct ties with the FSF, GNU or GPL). From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Thu Jul 29 15:59:35 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 15:59:35 +0800 Subject: [plug] init load order In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040729075935.GC16665@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message on Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 03:52:39PM +0800, Shayne O'Neill wrote: > Hey. On the guilds secure massmail (student notification) and db server > I'm havign a problem with load order. It runs Linux, yes? Debian? > The mailer is a custom hacked mailman with a mysql backend. Problem is , > that the system loads mailman's qrunner before mysql loads, causing the > qrunner to get puzzled and fall on its head. So, you have something like this: % /sbin/runlevel N 2 % ls /etc/rc2.d/*mailman /etc/rc2.d/S20mailman % ls /etc/rc2.d/*mysql /etc/rc2.d/S50mysql ? > How do I change the load order. Rename S20mailman to S51mailman. (The only hickup is if the Debian package decides in future to add S20mailman back in. However, I'm pretty confident that it understands what you have done and leaves it be.) From bernard at blackham.com.au Thu Jul 29 16:00:26 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:00:26 +0800 Subject: [plug] ownership In-Reply-To: <4108A778.40304@smlintl.com.au> References: <4108A778.40304@smlintl.com.au> Message-ID: <20040729080026.GF1293@blackham.com.au> On Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 03:30:00PM +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > 2. I can't seem to login to the computer as anything but root as soon as > I put my password in putty dies turns off? If I'm reading this right, putty crashes when you try to login? If so, check you're running the latest version of PuTTY. Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Thu Jul 29 16:02:30 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:02:30 +0800 Subject: [plug] ownership In-Reply-To: <20040729075120.GA16665@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <4108A778.40304@smlintl.com.au> <20040729075120.GA16665@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <4108AF16.2030409@smlintl.com.au> James Devenish wrote: >In message <4108A778.40304 at smlintl.com.au> >on Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 03:30:00PM +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > >>1. How do I enforce something going into a folder to be changed to the >>permissions of that folder ignoring what the users rights are. >>e.g. I have on my desktop a folder I transfer >> >> > >Via what means are you transferring those files? > > Ok I'm transferring the files using Open Office as in save as or kde using kde as in copy and paste or Konsole. > > >>2. I can't seem to login to the computer as anything but root as soon as >>I put my password in putty dies turns off? Now if I ssh into it using >>the ssh marc-w at blah.com.au it spits out this error in the /var/log/messages >> >>Jul 29 15:19:20 dhcp-192-168-0-104 gdm(pam_unix)[2454]: session opened >>for user marc-w by (uid=0) >> >> > >Um...I don't quite understand either your description or the relevance >of the log lines. I imagine that you are using PuTTY to connect from a >Windows machine to a Linux machine over a network. However, the above >log lines pertain to "gdm", which is a Linux display manager (i.e. >pretty much nothing to do with SSH). > > > I did that as an example to get an error message I use putty in linux cause the text is really tiny and its easier to use so instead of using konsole and ssh'ing I installed putty and just do that. >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Thu Jul 29 16:03:52 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:03:52 +0800 Subject: [plug] ownership In-Reply-To: <20040729080026.GF1293@blackham.com.au> References: <4108A778.40304@smlintl.com.au> <20040729080026.GF1293@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: <4108AF68.3090603@smlintl.com.au> Bernard Blackham wrote: >On Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 03:30:00PM +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > >>2. I can't seem to login to the computer as anything but root as soon as >>I put my password in putty dies turns off? >> >> > >If I'm reading this right, putty crashes when you try to login? If >so, check you're running the latest version of PuTTY. > >Bernard. > > > Nope doesn't crash per se it just turns off. Thats why I did it in konsole to see what messages came up cause under putty there was no messages that were coming up. From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Thu Jul 29 16:10:18 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:10:18 +0800 Subject: [plug] ownership In-Reply-To: <4108AF16.2030409@smlintl.com.au> References: <4108A778.40304@smlintl.com.au> <20040729075120.GA16665@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <4108AF16.2030409@smlintl.com.au> Message-ID: <20040729081018.GB917@cp.yi.org> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >> Via what means are you transferring those files? > Ok I'm transferring the files using Open Office as in save as or kde > using kde as in copy and paste or Konsole. That's less than helpful :-) I think that James was enquiring as to what kind of networking protocol was involved, e.g. scp, NFS, SMB (i.e. Samba or Windows filesharing), ftp, etc. Cameron. From dsbrown at cyllene.uwa.edu.au Thu Jul 29 16:14:26 2004 From: dsbrown at cyllene.uwa.edu.au (Denis Brown) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:14:26 +0800 Subject: [plug] ownership In-Reply-To: <4108A778.40304@smlintl.com.au> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040729161126.03058bf0@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> At 15:30 29/07/2004 +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >I'm starting to get a lot of confusing errors with my servers and >authorities and stuff so in the process I've got like a few simple >questions but I just can't remember the answer thats all. >2. I can't seem to login to the computer as anything but root as soon as I >put my password in putty dies turns off? Now if I ssh into it using the >ssh marc-w at blah.com.au it spits out this error in the /var/log/messages What version of PuTTY? I found this effect with 0.51 and upgraded to 0.54 after which the problem went away. HTH, Denis From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Thu Jul 29 16:15:45 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:15:45 +0800 Subject: [plug] ownership In-Reply-To: <4108AF16.2030409@smlintl.com.au> References: <4108A778.40304@smlintl.com.au> <20040729075120.GA16665@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <4108AF16.2030409@smlintl.com.au> Message-ID: <20040729081545.GA17363@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <4108AF16.2030409 at smlintl.com.au> on Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 04:02:30PM +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > James Devenish wrote: > >In message <4108A778.40304 at smlintl.com.au> > >on Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 03:30:00PM +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > >>1. How do I enforce something going into a folder to be changed to the > >>permissions of that folder ignoring what the users rights are. > >>e.g. I have on my desktop a folder I transfer > >Via what means are you transferring those files? > Ok I'm transferring the files using Open Office as in save as or kde > using kde as in copy and paste or Konsole. Aiyee. We're about to hit a language barrier here. I'm going to ignore some things that you've previously said, make a few assumptions, and make an answer based on that. Sounds like you have 'mounted' the fileserver's disk onto your workstation over a network, so that it appears just like a hard drive on your workstation. You say that you're "saving" files into that fileserver. 'Saving' a file to a new location is slightly different to what UNIX people usually mean by "transferring". "Saving" a file to a new location is like "starting from scratch". "Transferring", however, is not usually interpreted as "starting from scratch". The permissions of a file created from scratch will often depend on your "umask". This "umask" is a way of preventing you from accidently making your files accessible to everyone. This is quite intentional and it suits most people, but it happens to be different from what you want. The precise rectification of this problem will depend on details that you have not yet provided (I will now let someone else deal with this). > >>Jul 29 15:19:20 dhcp-192-168-0-104 gdm(pam_unix)[2454]: session opened > >>for user marc-w by (uid=0) That log line...is it coming from your workstation or from the remote server to which you are attempting to connect? Can you contact the administrator of that server? From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Thu Jul 29 16:16:58 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:16:58 +0800 Subject: [plug] ownership In-Reply-To: <20040729081018.GB917@cp.yi.org> References: <4108A778.40304@smlintl.com.au> <20040729075120.GA16665@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <4108AF16.2030409@smlintl.com.au> <20040729081018.GB917@cp.yi.org> Message-ID: <4108B27A.6050507@smlintl.com.au> smb sorry didn't understand the question. I've just added under the samba share directories. inherit permissions = yes create mode = 0770 and in hte home directories force create mode = 0770 force directory mode = 0770 probably hsould have done 0660 though Anyways I think that is where my issue is. In regards to even logging into the computer I have no idea where to start for that. I'm going to test that shortly. Cameron Patrick wrote: >Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > >>>Via what means are you transferring those files? >>> >>> >>Ok I'm transferring the files using Open Office as in save as or kde >>using kde as in copy and paste or Konsole. >> >> > >That's less than helpful :-) I think that James was enquiring as to >what kind of networking protocol was involved, e.g. scp, NFS, SMB >(i.e. Samba or Windows filesharing), ftp, etc. > >Cameron. > > > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Thu Jul 29 16:20:35 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:20:35 +0800 Subject: [plug] ownership In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040729161126.03058bf0@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040729161126.03058bf0@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <4108B353.6080507@smlintl.com.au> Denis Brown wrote: > At 15:30 29/07/2004 +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > >> I'm starting to get a lot of confusing errors with my servers and >> authorities and stuff so in the process I've got like a few simple >> questions but I just can't remember the answer thats all. > > > > >> 2. I can't seem to login to the computer as anything but root as soon >> as I put my password in putty dies turns off? Now if I ssh into it >> using the ssh marc-w at blah.com.au it spits out this error in the >> /var/log/messages > > > > > What version of PuTTY? I found this effect with 0.51 and upgraded to > 0.54 after which the problem went away. > Should it happen though if I do it through console and come up with the error message of dropped. BTW I have an unidentified build so I don't even know what version I have. > HTH, > Denis > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Thu Jul 29 16:28:33 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:28:33 +0800 Subject: [plug] ownership In-Reply-To: <20040729081545.GA17363@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <4108A778.40304@smlintl.com.au> <20040729075120.GA16665@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <4108AF16.2030409@smlintl.com.au> <20040729081545.GA17363@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <4108B531.4090600@smlintl.com.au> James Devenish wrote: >In message <4108AF16.2030409 at smlintl.com.au> >on Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 04:02:30PM +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > >>James Devenish wrote: >> >> >>>In message <4108A778.40304 at smlintl.com.au> >>>on Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 03:30:00PM +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >>> >>> >>>>1. How do I enforce something going into a folder to be changed to the >>>>permissions of that folder ignoring what the users rights are. >>>>e.g. I have on my desktop a folder I transfer >>>> >>>> >>>Via what means are you transferring those files? >>> >>> >>Ok I'm transferring the files using Open Office as in save as or kde >>using kde as in copy and paste or Konsole. >> >> > >Aiyee. We're about to hit a language barrier here. I'm going to ignore >some things that you've previously said, make a few assumptions, and >make an answer based on that. Sounds like you have 'mounted' the >fileserver's disk onto your workstation over a network, so that it >appears just like a hard drive on your workstation. You say that you're >"saving" files into that fileserver. 'Saving' a file to a new location >is slightly different to what UNIX people usually mean by >"transferring". "Saving" a file to a new location is like "starting from >scratch". "Transferring", however, is not usually interpreted as >"starting from scratch". The permissions of a file created from scratch >will often depend on your "umask". This "umask" is a way of preventing >you from accidently making your files accessible to everyone. This is >quite intentional and it suits most people, but it happens to be >different from what you want. The precise rectification of this problem >will depend on details that you have not yet provided (I will now let >someone else deal with this). > > In regards to creation of the file I've tried that as well it creates me as the owner and my home group as the group and permissions are the same as the folder however the ownership of that "created" file should be the ownership of that folder I would assume. I basically haver separated all permissions according to groups so the "sales" group puts files in folder x whether new or existing and the owner and group should be the same as the folder that it was put in. For arguments sake. I am marc-w:wheel so therefore if I create a file it gets those permissions therefore if I create a file as in "nano test" it will get those permissions. What I want to happen is if I'm under a certain directory I want that directory to enfore its own permissions on all files under it. The reason or logic behind it is because if I create a document like a fax on my computer and I want to save that new fax on teh server under the sales folder I would want other people in the sales department to have read and write permissions to it whether I am the owner or not. They log in and they see only that folder that works so far but in the creation I sometimes get an error of no permission to write there which is wierd. > > >>>>Jul 29 15:19:20 dhcp-192-168-0-104 gdm(pam_unix)[2454]: session opened >>>>for user marc-w by (uid=0) >>>> >>>> > >That log line...is it coming from your workstation or from the remote >server to which you are attempting to connect? Can you contact the >administrator of that server? > > >That error is coming from my work server which I am the administrator of heheh. I can log in as root but I don't like doing that for some reason I can't log in as myself. Thats the error message from the server sorry. > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Thu Jul 29 16:29:33 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:29:33 +0800 Subject: [plug] ownership In-Reply-To: <4108B27A.6050507@smlintl.com.au> References: <4108A778.40304@smlintl.com.au> <20040729075120.GA16665@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> <4108AF16.2030409@smlintl.com.au> <20040729081018.GB917@cp.yi.org> <4108B27A.6050507@smlintl.com.au> Message-ID: <20040729082933.GC917@cp.yi.org> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > smb sorry didn't understand the question. I've just added under the > samba share directories. > inherit permissions = yes > create mode = 0770 > and in hte home directories > force create mode = 0770 > force directory mode = 0770 > probably hsould have done 0660 though > > Anyways I think that is where my issue is. Indeed it is. If you want the files to be world-readable (and it sounds like you do), you should instead use something like this: create mask = 0664 force create mode = 0664 directory mask = 0775 force directory mode = 0775 Note the last digit -- that's the permissions given to "others", i.e. those who aren't either the owner of the file or in the same group as the file. Cameron. From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Thu Jul 29 16:31:18 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:31:18 +0800 Subject: [plug] ownership In-Reply-To: <4108B353.6080507@smlintl.com.au> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040729161126.03058bf0@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> <4108B353.6080507@smlintl.com.au> Message-ID: <20040729083118.GB17363@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <4108B353.6080507 at smlintl.com.au> on Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 04:20:35PM +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Should it happen though if I do it through console and come up with the > error message of dropped. BTW I have an unidentified build so I don't > even know what version I have. It's not quite clear what your situation or configuration is, but I will suggest that you initially avoid using PuTTY when attempting to isolate your SSH problem. To debug SSH from the client side, you can run it from a terminal window (e.g. xterm, konsole, gnome-terminal) and use the -v option for diagnostics (e.g. `ssh -vvv foo at bar`). From dsbrown at cyllene.uwa.edu.au Thu Jul 29 16:59:44 2004 From: dsbrown at cyllene.uwa.edu.au (Denis Brown) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:59:44 +0800 Subject: PuTTY (font size) - was Re: [plug] ownership In-Reply-To: <4108B353.6080507@smlintl.com.au> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040729161126.03058bf0@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> <5.1.0.14.2.20040729161126.03058bf0@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040729164509.02feed90@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> At 16:20 29/07/2004 +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >Denis Brown wrote: > >>At 15:30 29/07/2004 +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >>What version of PuTTY? I found this effect with 0.51 and upgraded to >>0.54 after which the problem went away. >Should it happen though if I do it through console and come up with the >error message of dropped. BTW I have an unidentified build so I don't even >know what version I have. Sorry, from previous replies I now see that you are using a Linux version of PuTTY so all bets may be off in respect of above :-) You mentioned that you chose PuTTY because the font size (in your KDE konsole) is too small to read? If so you may be able to get a satisfactory font size by adjusting the settings in the konsole itself, and reverting to the use of konsole rather than PuTTY. Apologies if you've Been There and Done That (tm) With konsole on display click Settings, Font and choose one to suit. This should be persistent over sessions but I don't know if it then applies globally or only on a konsole-by-konsole basis. You can also adjust (Settings, Size) the overall size of the display window which might be a help, too. The other thought, if screen fonts are generally way too small, would be to suspect that you have a very high resolution display mode in use and that the X FontPath set in your XF86Config file selects , say, the 75dpi font ahead of the 100dpi font. Better not to get too deeply into that here in case I'm way off track :-) HTH, Denis From griffinster at gmail.com Thu Jul 29 20:44:33 2004 From: griffinster at gmail.com (Chris Griffin) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 20:44:33 +0800 Subject: [plug] Mandrake 10 shutdown question In-Reply-To: <1090397367.968.27.camel@anya> References: <40FDE2A8.7090109@westnet.com.au> <200407211429.53965.russ@powerstech.com> <1090397367.968.27.camel@anya> Message-ID: Mark, I finally managed time to get bacj to this tonight and you were correct, I found the setting, changed it and now all is well, you learn something new evere day. Many thanks for everyones help. Kind regards, Chris Griffin On 21 Jul 2004 16:09:25 +0800, Mark O'Shea wrote: > On Wed, 2004-07-21 at 15:46, Chris Griffin wrote: > > Yup, same story. > > > > On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 14:29:53 +0800, Russ Powers wrote: > > > On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 02:03 pm, Chris Griffin wrote: > > > > That's what I have tried. But this only gets me back to the logon > > > > screen where the shutdown and reboot options are greyed out. I > > > > actually want to do a shutdown. > > > > > > Have you done it as root? > > Hi, > > I don't know if Mandrake has any custom frontends for doing this but > normally kde can be made to change this behaviour by using the control > center, in the system settings->Login manager-> sessions -> allow > shutdowns -> console. You need to be logged on as root to make the > changes. > > This is assuming you are using kdm as the desktop manager. > > Regards, > -- > Mark O'Shea > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From nofixed at westnet.com.au Thu Jul 29 23:16:23 2004 From: nofixed at westnet.com.au (Jim Householder) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 23:16:23 +0800 Subject: [plug] Booting linux of an iPod? In-Reply-To: <1091067919.3977.35.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> References: <00f401c47509$b1a0aff0$b9023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> <1091067919.3977.35.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> Message-ID: <410914C7.9090104@westnet.com.au> >>I have been given a laptop. However with the implementation of an SOE I SOE ??? From garbuck at westnet.com.au Fri Jul 30 00:01:44 2004 From: garbuck at westnet.com.au (Garry) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 00:01:44 +0800 Subject: [plug] Booting linux of an iPod? In-Reply-To: <410914C7.9090104@westnet.com.au> References: <00f401c47509$b1a0aff0$b9023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> <1091067919.3977.35.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> <410914C7.9090104@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <41091F68.5050206@westnet.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Jim Householder wrote: |>> I have been given a laptop. However with the implementation of an SOE I | | | SOE ??? Standard Operating Environment. A standard computer setup to reduce admin trauma.. HTH Garry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBCR9ovdH9DANniC8RAngIAKCQLC0L4xWNGO0j8N6A5/EYh3/LfACgmvtn /8lWUBk4LpAMN6218sx/9DE= =QwMn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Fri Jul 30 00:25:06 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 00:25:06 +0800 Subject: [plug] Booting linux of an iPod? In-Reply-To: <41091F68.5050206@westnet.com.au> References: <00f401c47509$b1a0aff0$b9023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> <1091067919.3977.35.camel@latte.internal.itmaze.com.au> <410914C7.9090104@westnet.com.au> <41091F68.5050206@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <1091118306.6875.10.camel@albert.localnet> On Fri, 2004-07-30 at 00:01, Garry wrote: > Standard Operating Environment. > > A standard computer setup to reduce admin trauma.. Frequently at the cost of user trauma (or at least endless bitter user wailing and gnashing of teeth). Often SOEs just enforce what is good policy anyway (users SHALL NOT install their own software on their desktops, etc). -- Craig Ringer From leon at brooks.fdns.net Fri Jul 30 08:04:00 2004 From: leon at brooks.fdns.net (Leon Brooks) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 08:04:00 +0800 Subject: [plug] This is what Red Hat is good at Message-ID: <200407300804.00636.leon@brooks.fdns.net> From the main OSIA list ---------- Forward; originally to Scott McClintock ---------- Subject: Re: [Osia-discuss] open source threat shakes Microsoft Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 06:38 From: Richard Keech <$INITIAL$SURNAME at redhat.com> To: Scott McClintock <$FORENAME at mu.com.au> Cc: OSIA List On Wed, 2004-07-28 at 23:28, Scott McClintock wrote: > I think the word "had" should be "has"... besides that, an > interesting statement... wonder if its true? That said, its a useful > reference to provide other Aussie corporates who often, rightly or > wrongly, look up to Telstra. > "Telstra had the largest data warehouse running Linux in the world, > Mr Smith said. > Its Terradata/Network Appliance installation uses grid technology and > is the largest Intel-based storage system of its kind, with 30TB of > capacity, which will next year be upgraded to 60TB. " And the best part about it (aside from being Red Hat)? It replaced a Windows data warehouse. -- Richard Keech <$INITIAL$SURNAME at redhat.com> Red Hat Asia-Pacific ------------------------------------------------------- Cheers; Leon From simon at plumtek.com Fri Jul 30 08:17:47 2004 From: simon at plumtek.com (Simon Scott) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 08:17:47 +0800 Subject: [plug] This is what Red Hat is good at In-Reply-To: <200407300804.00636.leon@brooks.fdns.net> References: <200407300804.00636.leon@brooks.fdns.net> Message-ID: <200407300817.47677.simon@plumtek.com> > > > > Its Terradata/Network Appliance installation uses grid technology and > > is the largest Intel-based storage system of its kind, with 30TB of > > capacity, which will next year be upgraded to 60TB. " By 'grid technology' do they mean Oracle 10G? From simon at plumtek.com Fri Jul 30 08:31:11 2004 From: simon at plumtek.com (Simon Scott) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 08:31:11 +0800 Subject: [plug] This is what Red Hat is good at In-Reply-To: <200407300817.47677.simon@plumtek.com> References: <200407300804.00636.leon@brooks.fdns.net> <200407300817.47677.simon@plumtek.com> Message-ID: <200407300831.11277.simon@plumtek.com> On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 08:17 am, Simon Scott wrote: > > > Its Terradata/Network Appliance installation uses grid technology and > > > is the largest Intel-based storage system of its kind, with 30TB of > > > capacity, which will next year be upgraded to 60TB. " > > By 'grid technology' do they mean Oracle 10G? /me slaps forehead upon noticing the word 'Terradata'.... its early for me! soz guys :D From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Fri Jul 30 08:37:39 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 08:37:39 +0800 Subject: [plug] ssh Message-ID: <41099853.1010600@smlintl.com.au> Hey people I'm going to try and deal with one problem at a time. I took your advice and decided to find out what the go is with ssh ignore putty. I don't know I got it that verbose when I ssh. The situation is this. I have a laptop that runs FC I boot into kde so I can use open office so cause I'm in kde I use konsole. I jump in and type this command. ssh -vvv marc-w at blahblah It is all within the one network so if I just put the ip down it wouldn't make a difference. I get this error. debug1: Trying private key: /root/.ssh/id_rsa debug3: no such identity: /root/.ssh/id_rsa debug1: Trying private key: /root/.ssh/id_dsa debug3: no such identity: /root/.ssh/id_dsa debug2: we did not send a packet, disable method debug3: authmethod_lookup keyboard-interactive debug3: remaining preferred: password debug3: authmethod_is_enabled keyboard-interactive debug1: Next authentication method: keyboard-interactive debug2: userauth_kbdint debug2: we sent a keyboard-interactive packet, wait for reply debug1: Authentications that can continue: publickey,password,keyboard-interactive debug3: userauth_kbdint: disable: no info_req_seen debug2: we did not send a packet, disable method debug3: authmethod_lookup password debug3: remaining preferred: debug3: authmethod_is_enabled password debug1: Next authentication method: password marc-w at smlintl.com.au's password: debug3: packet_send2: adding 64 (len 59 padlen 5 extra_pad 64) debug2: we sent a password packet, wait for reply debug1: Authentication succeeded (password). debug1: channel 0: new [client-session] debug3: ssh_session2_open: channel_new: 0 debug2: channel 0: send open debug1: Entering interactive session. debug2: callback start debug2: ssh_session2_setup: id 0 debug1: channel 0: request pty-req and then goes through the tty modes and connection closed. From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Fri Jul 30 08:43:56 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 08:43:56 +0800 Subject: [plug] ssh In-Reply-To: <41099853.1010600@smlintl.com.au> References: <41099853.1010600@smlintl.com.au> Message-ID: <20040730004355.GA1790@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <41099853.1010600 at smlintl.com.au> on Fri, Jul 30, 2004 at 08:37:39AM +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > ssh -vvv marc-w at blahblah Have you ever successfully logged into that machine before? If not, perhaps your account has not been set up to permit interactive sessions (this may be a security measure). At the bottom of this e-mail I have quoted the lines which indicate that you *are* successfully logging into blahblah. Therefore, your problem is not related to your password. I would check on blahblah that you have a valid "shell" (e.g. /usr/bin/zsh or /bin/bash), and that you don't have any mistakes in your shell's "startup scripts". > debug1: Authentications that can continue: > publickey,password,keyboard-interactive [...] > debug1: Next authentication method: password > marc-w at smlintl.com.au's password: [...] > debug1: Authentication succeeded (password). > debug1: channel 0: new [client-session] > debug3: ssh_session2_open: channel_new: 0 > debug2: channel 0: send open > debug1: Entering interactive session. [...] > and then goes through the tty modes and connection closed. From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Fri Jul 30 08:55:59 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 08:55:59 +0800 Subject: [plug] ssh In-Reply-To: <20040730004355.GA1790@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <41099853.1010600@smlintl.com.au> <20040730004355.GA1790@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <41099C9F.80509@smlintl.com.au> Ok I just tried to log in at the physical computer because my password is all good I thought well it would show up a different message. Cannot find name for userid 500 [I have no name!@fcserver marc-w] Thats my issue right there but how do I fix that. James Devenish wrote: >In message <41099853.1010600 at smlintl.com.au> >on Fri, Jul 30, 2004 at 08:37:39AM +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > >>ssh -vvv marc-w at blahblah >> >> > >Have you ever successfully logged into that machine before? If not, >perhaps your account has not been set up to permit interactive sessions >(this may be a security measure). At the bottom of this e-mail I have >quoted the lines which indicate that you *are* successfully logging into >blahblah. Therefore, your problem is not related to your password. I >would check on blahblah that you have a valid "shell" (e.g. /usr/bin/zsh >or /bin/bash), and that you don't have any mistakes in your shell's >"startup scripts". > > > >>debug1: Authentications that can continue: >>publickey,password,keyboard-interactive >> >> >[...] > > >>debug1: Next authentication method: password >>marc-w at smlintl.com.au's password: >> >> >[...] > > >>debug1: Authentication succeeded (password). >>debug1: channel 0: new [client-session] >>debug3: ssh_session2_open: channel_new: 0 >>debug2: channel 0: send open >>debug1: Entering interactive session. >> >> >[...] > > >>and then goes through the tty modes and connection closed. >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Fri Jul 30 08:57:26 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 08:57:26 +0800 Subject: [plug] ssh In-Reply-To: <20040730004355.GA1790@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <41099853.1010600@smlintl.com.au> <20040730004355.GA1790@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <41099CF6.2010300@smlintl.com.au> James Devenish wrote: >In message <41099853.1010600 at smlintl.com.au> >on Fri, Jul 30, 2004 at 08:37:39AM +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > >>ssh -vvv marc-w at blahblah >> >> > >Have you ever successfully logged into that machine before? If not, >perhaps your account has not been set up to permit interactive sessions >(this may be a security measure). At the bottom of this e-mail I have >quoted the lines which indicate that you *are* successfully logging into >blahblah. Therefore, your problem is not related to your password. I >would check on blahblah that you have a valid "shell" (e.g. /usr/bin/zsh >or /bin/bash), and that you don't have any mistakes in your shell's >"startup scripts". > > > yeah in the /etc/passwd there is a /bin/bash as the shell. >>debug1: Authentications that can continue: >>publickey,password,keyboard-interactive >> >> >[...] > > >>debug1: Next authentication method: password >>marc-w at smlintl.com.au's password: >> >> >[...] > > >>debug1: Authentication succeeded (password). >>debug1: channel 0: new [client-session] >>debug3: ssh_session2_open: channel_new: 0 >>debug2: channel 0: send open >>debug1: Entering interactive session. >> >> >[...] > > >>and then goes through the tty modes and connection closed. >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > From leon at brooks.fdns.net Fri Jul 30 09:12:43 2004 From: leon at brooks.fdns.net (Leon Brooks) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 09:12:43 +0800 Subject: [plug] Hacker Nights (was ** July Workshop Notice **) In-Reply-To: <4104C643.8090205@Midland.RoyWeston.com.au> References: <20040725162158.GR2245@blackham.com.au> <4104C643.8090205@Midland.RoyWeston.com.au> Message-ID: <200407300912.43972.leon@brooks.fdns.net> On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 16:52, Adrian Woodley wrote: > On a semi-related topic, I've been thinking about starting a > monthly Hacker Night. Only if you promise not to pinch anyone's wireless MAC address. (-: Now that I live in Currambine, I'd naturally prefer a more northerly venue. Cheers; Leon From leon at brooks.fdns.net Fri Jul 30 09:21:20 2004 From: leon at brooks.fdns.net (Leon Brooks) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 09:21:20 +0800 Subject: [plug] Hacker Nights - newbies In-Reply-To: <1090836379.2641.11.camel@hosrv01.jtajt.local> References: <1090836379.2641.11.camel@hosrv01.jtajt.local> Message-ID: <200407300921.20305.leon@brooks.fdns.net> On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 18:06, Jay Warwick wrote: > Does this mean that the newbies will be sending emails to newbies > for help? Doesn't seem to be much point in that! Actually, there is. The old one-room schoolhouses had a big advantage over the more recent, age-segregated style in that the more experienced children helped with teaching the less. This worked in two ways, one of which speaks for your argument, and one against. The more experienced children were forced to recap and package their knowledge for delivery to the less experienced. This meant that gaps in their knowledge showed up fairly rapidly. This speaks against segregation. The less experienced were recieving instruction from people closer to their own age, worldview, experience and expectations. This meant that the information was more often packaged in ways that they could relate to. This speaks for segregation by experience, it's just that the modern systems take it too far, and are too thoroughly keyed to the (anti-FOSS) idea that wisdom is _only_ reticulated from a central source (the teacher, who in turn derives it from The Approved Curriculum). So... it's not as cut-and-dried as you might think, either way. I'd be tempted to add a guru list but make membership on the newbie list a condition of membership on the guru list, and make acceptance into the guru list (modulo a grandfather clause) require sponsorship from (say) three gurus and three _newbies_. Sure, you can route the newbie list to /dev/null, and some people will, but by and large I think it will keep gurus in the loop. Cheers; Leon From leon at brooks.fdns.net Fri Jul 30 09:27:26 2004 From: leon at brooks.fdns.net (Leon Brooks) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 09:27:26 +0800 Subject: [plug] OT SCO anyone familier with it ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200407300927.26048.leon@brooks.fdns.net> On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:59, Shayne O'Neill wrote: > Also, this bizare box had no TCP stack. Never worked out what was up > with that. The explanation is dead simple: they didn't _pay_ for one. No, I'm not kidding. Cheers; Leon From leon at brooks.fdns.net Fri Jul 30 09:29:03 2004 From: leon at brooks.fdns.net (Leon Brooks) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 09:29:03 +0800 Subject: [plug] OT SCO anyone familier with it ? In-Reply-To: References: <001001c474fc$1fc8a400$b500a8c0@chrislaptop> <1091062493.3216.2.camel@sarge.int.linuxit.com.au> Message-ID: <200407300929.03396.leon@brooks.fdns.net> On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 11:05, Michael Holland wrote: > Did Leon suggest installing the Gnu tools on SCO? Gnu tar (unlike > SCO) should preserve attributes. And you can have the same version on > both sides. Leon hasn't been consulted (good, because he is busy), but that's an excellent suggestion. > > On Thu, 2004-07-29 at 07:39, Chris Cornish wrote: > > > Anyone know much about sco unix and how to use it. I have a > > > friend the > What version? Almost invariably OpenServer 5.0.x, 4 <= x <= 7. Cheers; Leon From leon at brooks.fdns.net Fri Jul 30 09:36:10 2004 From: leon at brooks.fdns.net (Leon Brooks) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 09:36:10 +0800 Subject: [plug] weird Mandrake 10 problem: reset URPMI In-Reply-To: <200407291206.26427.simon@plumtek.com> References: <200407291206.26427.simon@plumtek.com> Message-ID: <200407300936.10474.leon@brooks.fdns.net> On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 12:06, Simon Scott wrote: > Lastly, how do I force a reinstall with urpmi? urpmi.removemedia -a edit /etc/urpmi/urpmi.conf and clean out any crud delete any *.nameofurpmisource files in /var/lib/urpmi urpmi.addmedium main \ http://mandrake.waixusers.net/pub/official/10.0/i586/Mandrake/RPMS \ with ../base/hdlist.cz urpmi.addmedium contrib \ http://mandrake.waixusers.net/pub/official/10.0/i586/Mandrake/RPMS2 \ with ../base/hdlist2.cz urpmi.addmedium --update updates \ http://mandrake.waixusers.net/pub/official/updates/10.0/RPMS \ with ../base/hdlist.cz urpmi --auto-select urpmi kernel Cheers; Leon From jturner at bsis.com.au Fri Jul 30 10:25:22 2004 From: jturner at bsis.com.au (Jay Turner) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 10:25:22 +0800 Subject: [plug] Hacker Nights - newbies In-Reply-To: <200407300921.20305.leon@brooks.fdns.net> Message-ID: Leon Brooks Said: > So... it's not as cut-and-dried as you might think, either way. I'd be > tempted to add a guru list but make membership on the newbie list a > condition of membership on the guru list, and make acceptance into the > guru list (modulo a grandfather clause) require sponsorship from (say) > three gurus and three _newbies_. Sure, you can route the newbie list > to /dev/null, and some people will, but by and large I think it will > keep gurus in the loop. I would be against this. Mainly because I don't consider myself, nor do I think others would consider me a 'guru'. However, as I haven't achieved 'guru' status, doesn't mean I wouldn't want to be able to listen and learn from the actual 'gurus'. Often I learn things not by asking questions, but by reading what the 'gurus' are up to day to day in their never-ending quest to build a better system. I don't feel that sticking me (or people like me) at the newbie table is the way to go. Sure I may be able to help others out with the skills that I currently do have, but my pipeline for learning more has been removed. I'm in favour of leaving the one list as it is, or if you are deadset on having two lists, have them, but make them open to everyone, but just specify the level of technical difficulty that should be addressed on each list. Perhaps a 'newbie' type list where someone could post about setting file permissions, getting ssh to work properly etc.. And a more advanced list for people who have more advanced questions perhaps relating to the sort of things that Craig, Cameron and Bernard often discuss. The problem with this is where do you draw the line at what is easy and what is hard? Maybe if we encourage people to make better use of the archives and maybe create an FAQ or something we can encourage people to explore other avenues fully before posting here, cutting down the number of 'newbie' type posts. The one thing I have found with Linux/OSS software is that there is generally a lack of doco or if doco is available, not being able to find it easily. Maybe we could start an online reference library where as people stumble across useful articles (for example getting Squid to work with Samba 3 or the steps required to update the packages and the anaconda installer in RedHat EL or getting the Promise RAID controller src to compile and be available at boot with a new kernel etc..) they could post links to them or submit copies of the information and any of the notes, observations they made during their experience. That is just my 2c on how I think PLUG can work for everyone. I assume that there maybe many people like me who don't post that often, but are sitting paying attention quietly in the wings. Jay From PBennett at arg.net.au Fri Jul 30 10:38:35 2004 From: PBennett at arg.net.au (Bennett, Phillip) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 10:38:35 +0800 Subject: [plug] OT SCO anyone familier with it ? Message-ID: <851545268AD5D5118929000629A8722A0299A222@mail.arg.net.au> > -----Original Message----- > From: Leon Brooks [mailto:leon at brooks.fdns.net] > Sent: Friday, 30 July 2004 9:29 AM > To: plug at plug.linux.org.au > Subject: Re: [plug] OT SCO anyone familier with it ? > > > On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 11:05, Michael Holland wrote: > > Did Leon suggest installing the Gnu tools on SCO? Gnu tar (unlike > > SCO) should preserve attributes. And you can have the same > version on > > both sides. > > Leon hasn't been consulted (good, because he is busy), but that's an > excellent suggestion. > > > > On Thu, 2004-07-29 at 07:39, Chris Cornish wrote: > > > > Anyone know much about sco unix and how to use it. I have a > > > > friend the > > > What version? > > Almost invariably OpenServer 5.0.x, 4 <= x <= 7. I just love being the exception to the norm! :) We are running with v3.2 :( Incidently Leon, how hard would it be to upgrade to version 5? If we can at all? Is is really that different? We have paid for a TCP license. Handy :P Phil. > > Cheers; Leon > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From leon at brooks.fdns.net Fri Jul 30 11:28:16 2004 From: leon at brooks.fdns.net (Leon Brooks) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 11:28:16 +0800 Subject: [plug] OT SCO anyone familier with it ? In-Reply-To: <851545268AD5D5118929000629A8722A0299A222@mail.arg.net.au> References: <851545268AD5D5118929000629A8722A0299A222@mail.arg.net.au> Message-ID: <200407301128.16118.leon@brooks.fdns.net> On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 10:38, Bennett, Phillip wrote: > I just love being the exception to the norm! :) We are running > with v3.2 Whaaat...? Not Internet exposed at all, I hope? > Incidently Leon, how hard would it be to upgrade to version 5? If we > can at all? Dunno, not much into SCO archaeology. (-: > Is is really that different? Better off recompiling the app for Linux or {Free,Open,Net}BSD if you can. Get modern hardware support and software facilities. > We have paid for a TCP license. Handy :P And also -ing unbelieveable that in this day and age you should have to. Cheers; leon From leon at brooks.fdns.net Fri Jul 30 11:37:46 2004 From: leon at brooks.fdns.net (Leon Brooks) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 11:37:46 +0800 Subject: [plug] Dr Seuss: the full Monty Message-ID: <200407301137.46278.leon@brooks.fdns.net> http://people.cornell.edu/pages/elz1/clocktower/DrSeuss.html Audio here (RealAudio only, and slow/chunky, but MPlayer works under Mandrake 10 (may need the PLF win32codecs RPM, I haven't tried without)): http://www.abc.net.au/melbourne/stories/s889271.htm Cheers; Leon From outrider at operamail.com Fri Jul 30 12:06:45 2004 From: outrider at operamail.com (Ari Finander) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 12:06:45 +0800 Subject: [plug] OT: anyone looking for an old Sun? Message-ID: <20040730040645.BF10123C0B@ws5-3.us4.outblaze.com> A friend is has a Sun computer he wants to get rid of. I know nothing about Sun, so I'm just going by what he wrote down on a piece of paper for me because I said someone here might want it (it's bulk rubbish collection next week, and it's going on the curbside Sunday night according to his wife and I don't think she's joking, so be quick): Sun lt scsi external drives 19" monitor frame buffer suspect That's all he wrote down for me. Drop me an email if you want it. Ari -- _____________________________________________________________ Web-based SMS services available at http://www.operamail.com. >From your mailbox to local or overseas cell phones. Powered by Outblaze From cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au Fri Jul 30 12:42:43 2004 From: cameron at patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 12:42:43 +0800 Subject: [plug] Hacker Nights (was ** July Workshop Notice **) In-Reply-To: <200407300912.43972.leon@brooks.fdns.net> References: <20040725162158.GR2245@blackham.com.au> <4104C643.8090205@Midland.RoyWeston.com.au> <200407300912.43972.leon@brooks.fdns.net> Message-ID: <20040730044243.GA2801@cp.yi.org> Leon Brooks wrote: > Now that I live in Currambine, I'd naturally prefer a more northerly > venue. The currently proposed venue (in Malaga) isn't too far -- should only be about a 25 minute drive from Currambine, straight down the freeway and along the Reid Hwy. It's also about half-way to Midland, so it should suit Adrian... And of course, it's convenient for me too. It isn't so close for the southerners and westerners that may want to turn up (e.g. Bernard, Harry and Craig), but that's life. Cameron. From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Fri Jul 30 13:40:51 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 13:40:51 +0800 Subject: [plug] ssh In-Reply-To: <20040730004355.GA1790@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <41099853.1010600@smlintl.com.au> <20040730004355.GA1790@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <4109DF63.2090509@smlintl.com.au> Finally got ssh to work. I did a search after I cam up with that error of not having a name and I found out that something as simple as making the passwd and group world readable and that fixed it. Marc James Devenish wrote: >In message <41099853.1010600 at smlintl.com.au> >on Fri, Jul 30, 2004 at 08:37:39AM +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > >>ssh -vvv marc-w at blahblah >> >> > >Have you ever successfully logged into that machine before? If not, >perhaps your account has not been set up to permit interactive sessions >(this may be a security measure). At the bottom of this e-mail I have >quoted the lines which indicate that you *are* successfully logging into >blahblah. Therefore, your problem is not related to your password. I >would check on blahblah that you have a valid "shell" (e.g. /usr/bin/zsh >or /bin/bash), and that you don't have any mistakes in your shell's >"startup scripts". > > > >>debug1: Authentications that can continue: >>publickey,password,keyboard-interactive >> >> >[...] > > >>debug1: Next authentication method: password >>marc-w at smlintl.com.au's password: >> >> >[...] > > >>debug1: Authentication succeeded (password). >>debug1: channel 0: new [client-session] >>debug3: ssh_session2_open: channel_new: 0 >>debug2: channel 0: send open >>debug1: Entering interactive session. >> >> >[...] > > >>and then goes through the tty modes and connection closed. >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > From marc-w at smlintl.com.au Fri Jul 30 13:45:29 2004 From: marc-w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 13:45:29 +0800 Subject: [plug] ownership In-Reply-To: <20040729075120.GA16665@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> References: <4108A778.40304@smlintl.com.au> <20040729075120.GA16665@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: <4109E079.4020808@smlintl.com.au> Also the way I have so far "fixed" hopefully is to use stickied users and also using umask speaking to friend says thats teh only way including using smb.conf to enforce it. Also my other errors were from the smbmount trying umask did not work which I found out after that same friend pointed out that umask doesn't work under smbmount but rather use fmask and dmask. I was like duh. If anyone else has had these issues I hope thats helped if not reply to me and I'll tell you what I did to clear up the mud lol. Thanks to everyone that helped btw. Marc James Devenish wrote: >In message <4108A778.40304 at smlintl.com.au> >on Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 03:30:00PM +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > >>1. How do I enforce something going into a folder to be changed to the >>permissions of that folder ignoring what the users rights are. >>e.g. I have on my desktop a folder I transfer >> >> > >Via what means are you transferring those files? > > > >>2. I can't seem to login to the computer as anything but root as soon as >>I put my password in putty dies turns off? Now if I ssh into it using >>the ssh marc-w at blah.com.au it spits out this error in the /var/log/messages >> >>Jul 29 15:19:20 dhcp-192-168-0-104 gdm(pam_unix)[2454]: session opened >>for user marc-w by (uid=0) >> >> > >Um...I don't quite understand either your description or the relevance >of the log lines. I imagine that you are using PuTTY to connect from a >Windows machine to a Linux machine over a network. However, the above >log lines pertain to "gdm", which is a Linux display manager (i.e. >pretty much nothing to do with SSH). > > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > From ahewitt at globaldial.com Fri Jul 30 13:47:37 2004 From: ahewitt at globaldial.com (Adam Hewitt) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 13:47:37 +0800 Subject: [plug] OT: anyone looking for an old Sun? In-Reply-To: <20040730040645.BF10123C0B@ws5-3.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <000e01c475f8$b7eb8020$8b023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> Yes please -----Original Message----- From: plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au [mailto:plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au] On Behalf Of Ari Finander Sent: Friday, 30 July 2004 12:07 PM To: plug at plug.linux.org.au Subject: [plug] OT: anyone looking for an old Sun? A friend is has a Sun computer he wants to get rid of. I know nothing about Sun, so I'm just going by what he wrote down on a piece of paper for me because I said someone here might want it (it's bulk rubbish collection next week, and it's going on the curbside Sunday night according to his wife and I don't think she's joking, so be quick): Sun lt scsi external drives 19" monitor frame buffer suspect That's all he wrote down for me. Drop me an email if you want it. Ari -- _____________________________________________________________ Web-based SMS services available at http://www.operamail.com. >From your mailbox to local or overseas cell phones. Powered by Outblaze _______________________________________________ PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au From ahewitt at globaldial.com Fri Jul 30 13:53:35 2004 From: ahewitt at globaldial.com (Adam Hewitt) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 13:53:35 +0800 Subject: [plug] OT: anyone looking for an old Sun? In-Reply-To: <000e01c475f8$b7eb8020$8b023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <001001c475f9$8dc63460$8b023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> Sorry bout that...stupid MS Outlook!! -----Original Message----- From: plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au [mailto:plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au] On Behalf Of Adam Hewitt Sent: Friday, 30 July 2004 1:48 PM To: plug at plug.linux.org.au Subject: RE: [plug] OT: anyone looking for an old Sun? Yes please -----Original Message----- From: plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au [mailto:plug-bounces at plug.linux.org.au] On Behalf Of Ari Finander Sent: Friday, 30 July 2004 12:07 PM To: plug at plug.linux.org.au Subject: [plug] OT: anyone looking for an old Sun? A friend is has a Sun computer he wants to get rid of. I know nothing about Sun, so I'm just going by what he wrote down on a piece of paper for me because I said someone here might want it (it's bulk rubbish collection next week, and it's going on the curbside Sunday night according to his wife and I don't think she's joking, so be quick): Sun lt scsi external drives 19" monitor frame buffer suspect That's all he wrote down for me. Drop me an email if you want it. Ari -- _____________________________________________________________ Web-based SMS services available at http://www.operamail.com. >From your mailbox to local or overseas cell phones. Powered by Outblaze _______________________________________________ PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au _______________________________________________ PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au From ahewitt at globaldial.com Fri Jul 30 14:24:21 2004 From: ahewitt at globaldial.com (Adam Hewitt) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 14:24:21 +0800 Subject: [plug] iPod 40GB vs iRiver H140 40GB Message-ID: <002301c475fd$d9aa7860$8b023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> Hi All, I am currently looking for HDD mp3 player and I have basically narrowed my choices down to these two. As these have enough differences to make the dicision difficult I have started a list of pros and cons of each. What I would like is some real world experiences that people have had with each and if you have anything to add to the pro's and con's of each. $650-750 is a lot to spend on an mp3 player and I would like to make sure I have all my bases covered. Cheers, Adam. iPod: Pros: Excellent user interface ~$100 cheaper than iRiver (although I have found a place that does the iRiver for the same price) Massive amounts of third party add ons Cons: No remote (Non-LCD one available as optinal accessory) Battery doesn't last as long as iRiver Doesn't support OGG No Radio No Record function without third party Mic PC Magazine gives 4 stars iRiver: Pros: LCD Remote Radio Recording functionality Plays OGG Shows up as external hard drive, so OS independent (??) PC Magazine gives it 5 stars Cons: iRiver don't have a presence in their own forums Firmware is a little dodgy, however a new revision is due for August (apparently) Doesn't seem to have the same third party support -- Adam Hewitt - CCNA, LCP Systems Engineer, iiNet From shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au Fri Jul 30 14:43:23 2004 From: shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au (Shayne O'Neill) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 14:43:23 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Rampantly irritating esc codes in spam Message-ID: Ok. Not sure quite whats happening, but I'm getting spam that has some sort of escape code in it that causes underlining to turn on and refuse to turn off, the full effect being that the terminal has underlines on every line. I'm using pine under a screen session , and having to actually kill the terminal since even after quitting pine the underlines are still damn there. Is there anyway to disable the specific control code thats appearing in these spams to stop this effect, sinces its massively irritating. Cheers, Shayne. -- "the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 27, 2003 Shayne O'Neill. http://www.perthimc.asn.au From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Fri Jul 30 14:47:51 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 14:47:51 +0800 Subject: [plug] iPod 40GB vs iRiver H140 40GB In-Reply-To: <002301c475fd$d9aa7860$8b023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> References: <002301c475fd$d9aa7860$8b023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <4109EF17.8020100@postnewspapers.com.au> The Rio Karma is rather nice, and astonishingly tiny. The one I used (my old housemate had one) had some firmware bugs and a really dreadful upload/download application, though. No support for access as a USB disk or network volume. Plays OGG, FLAC, has a 20GB disk. I'd put the Karma in the "It could've been so good..." box. What it really needs is some new firmware to support usb-disk class driver access so you don't have to use the apalling transfer app anymore. -- Craig Ringer From ryan at is.as.geeky.as Fri Jul 30 14:48:04 2004 From: ryan at is.as.geeky.as (Ryan) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 14:48:04 +0800 Subject: [plug] Rampantly irritating esc codes in spam In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1091170084.1689.6.camel@vaio> On Fri, 2004-07-30 at 14:43, Shayne O'Neill wrote: > Is there anyway to disable the specific control code thats appearing in > these spams to stop this effect, sinces its massively irritating. Does the 'reset' command fix the terminal after the fact? Ryan From shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au Fri Jul 30 14:49:54 2004 From: shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au (Shayne O'Neill) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 14:49:54 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] OT SCO anyone familier with it ? In-Reply-To: <200407300927.26048.leon@brooks.fdns.net> Message-ID: Anyone paid up there 'ELF' ip licences lately? *shudder* -- "the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 27, 2003 Shayne O'Neill. http://www.perthimc.asn.au On Fri, 30 Jul 2004, Leon Brooks wrote: > On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:59, Shayne O'Neill wrote: > > Also, this bizare box had no TCP stack. Never worked out what was up > > with that. > > The explanation is dead simple: they didn't _pay_ for one. > > No, I'm not kidding. > > Cheers; Leon > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From patrick at tehvand.com Fri Jul 30 14:52:30 2004 From: patrick at tehvand.com (Patrick Tehvand) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 14:52:30 +0800 Subject: [plug] iPod 40GB vs iRiver H140 40GB In-Reply-To: <002301c475fd$d9aa7860$8b023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> References: <002301c475fd$d9aa7860$8b023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <4109F02E.4020308@tehvand.com> Adam Hewitt wrote: > Hi All, > > I am currently looking for HDD mp3 player and I have basically narrowed > my choices down to these two. As these have enough differences to make > the dicision difficult I have started a list of pros and cons of each. > What I would like is some real world experiences that people have had > with each and if you have anything to add to the pro's and con's of > each. $650-750 is a lot to spend on an mp3 player and I would like to > make sure I have all my bases covered. > > Cheers, > > Adam. > > iPod: > > Pros: > Excellent user interface > ~$100 cheaper than iRiver (although I have found a place that does the > iRiver for the same price) > Massive amounts of third party add ons > > Cons: > No remote (Non-LCD one available as optinal accessory) > Battery doesn't last as long as iRiver > Doesn't support OGG > No Radio > No Record function without third party Mic > PC Magazine gives 4 stars > > iRiver: > > Pros: > LCD Remote > Radio > Recording functionality > Plays OGG > Shows up as external hard drive, so OS independent (??) > PC Magazine gives it 5 stars > > Cons: > iRiver don't have a presence in their own forums > Firmware is a little dodgy, however a new revision is due for August > (apparently) > Doesn't seem to have the same third party support > I have a 40G ipod and absolutly love it. I guess the pro's you have outlined are part the reason I have one, but one can't deny the iconic nature of "gadgets". I think a large portion of it is the fact that it _is_ an ipod, and is so very nice to use. As it is a device that I have with me constantly and in my hand more often than not, the sleakness and great UI is all part and parcel to the features. I guess the thing to ask yourself is what are you buying it for? Do you want a MP3 player or a firewire HDD? Is file format an issue? For me, I have an ibook so the issue of not playing OGG isnt an issue. One last thing I have learnt is to never make your decisions with this sort of thing based on "a new revision is due for August". Wait for the revision if you are leaning toward the iriver and find out if the firmware update does in-fact fix the issues. hth. Patrick From shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au Fri Jul 30 15:10:25 2004 From: shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au (Shayne O'Neill) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 15:10:25 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Rampantly irritating esc codes in spam In-Reply-To: <1091170084.1689.6.camel@vaio> Message-ID: No :( -- "the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 27, 2003 Shayne O'Neill. http://www.perthimc.asn.au On Fri, 30 Jul 2004, Ryan wrote: > On Fri, 2004-07-30 at 14:43, Shayne O'Neill wrote: > > Is there anyway to disable the specific control code thats appearing in > > these spams to stop this effect, sinces its massively irritating. > > Does the 'reset' command fix the terminal after the fact? > > Ryan > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From bernard at blackham.com.au Fri Jul 30 15:16:35 2004 From: bernard at blackham.com.au (Bernard Blackham) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 15:16:35 +0800 Subject: [plug] Rampantly irritating esc codes in spam In-Reply-To: References: <1091170084.1689.6.camel@vaio> Message-ID: <20040730071635.GJ17364@blackham.com.au> On Fri, Jul 30, 2004 at 03:10:25PM +0800, Shayne O'Neill wrote: > On Fri, 30 Jul 2004, Ryan wrote: > > > On Fri, 2004-07-30 at 14:43, Shayne O'Neill wrote: > > > Is there anyway to disable the specific control code thats appearing in > > > these spams to stop this effect, sinces its massively irritating. > > Does the 'reset' command fix the terminal after the fact? > No :( Does "echo -e '\033c'" ? (It fixes some things reset doesn't.) IMHO, PINE shouldn't be displaying escape sequences from emails. Perhaps there's a PINE config option, or a newer version of PINE disables it? Failing that, I'd file a bug on PINE upstream :) Bernard. -- Bernard Blackham From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Fri Jul 30 15:31:56 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 15:31:56 +0800 Subject: [plug] Rampantly irritating esc codes in spam In-Reply-To: <20040730071635.GJ17364@blackham.com.au> References: <1091170084.1689.6.camel@vaio> <20040730071635.GJ17364@blackham.com.au> Message-ID: <4109F96C.4030400@postnewspapers.com.au> Bernard Blackham wrote: > Does "echo -e '\033c'" ? (It fixes some things reset doesn't.) > > IMHO, PINE shouldn't be displaying escape sequences from emails. > Perhaps there's a PINE config option, or a newer version of PINE > disables it? Failing that, I'd file a bug on PINE upstream :) Indeed. Just imagine a terminal hack over email ... ick. I vaguely recall reading that some of the terminal hack problems either haven't been fixed or have resurfaced in recent terminal emulators. -- Craig Ringer From mungotheb at hotmail.com Fri Jul 30 16:07:59 2004 From: mungotheb at hotmail.com (Mungo TheB) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 08:07:59 +0000 Subject: [plug] OT: anyone looking for an old Sun? Message-ID: else i'll have it currently dual monitor samsung syncmaster 957 and Sun 20d10 would mind pushing it further :) Mungo _________________________________________________________________ Play Love Hunt to win a $9000 holiday and find love! http://mobilecentral.ninemsn.com.au/mclovehunt/lovehunt.aspx From trevor.phillips at gmail.com Fri Jul 30 16:57:15 2004 From: trevor.phillips at gmail.com (Trevor Phillips) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 16:57:15 +0800 Subject: [plug] Westnet Usage Monitor for Linux Message-ID: <3fff79a804073001576ffba621@mail.gmail.com> It's finally happened - I'm ADSL Enabled!! ^_^ Soooo - are there any Linux-friendly download usage monitors for Westnet ADSL customers? Preferrably a dockapp-style display, although I'm sure my Wife would want a KDE version... Any SOAP interface? What are others using? What is available? (Yes, I'm Googling, but I still like up-to-date opinions too. -_^) Thanks... -- Trevor Phillips - http://jurai.murdoch.edu.au/ Web Technical Administrator - IT Services, Murdoch University "On nights such as this, evil deeds are done. And good deeds, of course. But mostly evil, on the whole." -- (Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters) From senectus at gmail.com Fri Jul 30 17:05:23 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 17:05:23 +0800 Subject: [plug] Westnet Usage Monitor for Linux In-Reply-To: <3fff79a804073001576ffba621@mail.gmail.com> References: <3fff79a804073001576ffba621@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I saw something on the linux section of the whirlpool.net.au forum... I can't remember if they ever finished it though On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 16:57:15 +0800, Trevor Phillips wrote: > It's finally happened - I'm ADSL Enabled!! ^_^ > > Soooo - are there any Linux-friendly download usage monitors for > Westnet ADSL customers? Preferrably a dockapp-style display, although > I'm sure my Wife would want a KDE version... Any SOAP interface? > > What are others using? What is available? (Yes, I'm Googling, but I > still like up-to-date opinions too. -_^) > > Thanks... > > -- > Trevor Phillips - http://jurai.murdoch.edu.au/ > Web Technical Administrator - IT Services, Murdoch University > "On nights such as this, evil deeds are done. And good deeds, of > course. But mostly evil, on the whole." > -- (Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters) > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From russ at powerstech.com Fri Jul 30 17:48:12 2004 From: russ at powerstech.com (Russ Powers) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 17:48:12 +0800 Subject: [plug] knoppix Message-ID: <200407301748.12408.russ@powerstech.com> Hi, On mirror.3fl.net there's knoppix and knoppix-STD. Anybody have a preference which is more useful as a tool for testing linux compatibility and disaster recovery? Thanks. -- Regards, Russ From craig at postnewspapers.com.au Fri Jul 30 18:10:26 2004 From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 18:10:26 +0800 Subject: [plug] knoppix In-Reply-To: <200407301748.12408.russ@powerstech.com> References: <200407301748.12408.russ@powerstech.com> Message-ID: <410A1E92.1040708@postnewspapers.com.au> Russ Powers wrote: > On mirror.3fl.net there's knoppix and knoppix-STD. Anybody have a preference > which is more useful as a tool for testing linux compatibility and disaster > recovery? For disaster recovery I've had good results with SystemRecoveryCD instead. It's small and boots quickly without a giant string of boot command line options. As for compatibility, no idea sorry. -- Craig Ringer From bowden at iinet.net.au Fri Jul 30 18:52:33 2004 From: bowden at iinet.net.au (Tim Bowden) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 18:52:33 +0800 Subject: [plug] knoppix In-Reply-To: <410A1E92.1040708@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <200407301748.12408.russ@powerstech.com> <410A1E92.1040708@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <1091184753.2914.24.camel@localhost> On Fri, 2004-07-30 at 18:10, Craig Ringer wrote: > Russ Powers wrote: > > On mirror.3fl.net there's knoppix and knoppix-STD. Anybody have a preference > > which is more useful as a tool for testing linux compatibility and disaster > > recovery? > > For disaster recovery I've had good results with SystemRecoveryCD > instead. It's small and boots quickly without a giant string of boot > command line options. As for compatibility, no idea sorry. > > -- > Craig Ringer Second that. You can find it here: http://www.sysresccd.org/ And here is a selection of other 'rescue' cd's: http://www.linuxsecurity.com/docs/Hack-FAQ/unix/bootable-linux-distributions.shtml HTH, Tim Bowden From russ at powerstech.com Fri Jul 30 19:19:38 2004 From: russ at powerstech.com (Russ Powers) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 19:19:38 +0800 Subject: [plug] knoppix In-Reply-To: <410A1E92.1040708@postnewspapers.com.au> References: <200407301748.12408.russ@powerstech.com> <410A1E92.1040708@postnewspapers.com.au> Message-ID: <200407301919.38453.russ@powerstech.com> On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 06:10 pm, Craig Ringer wrote: > Russ Powers wrote: > > On mirror.3fl.net there's knoppix and knoppix-STD. Anybody have a > > preference which is more useful as a tool for testing linux compatibility > > and disaster recovery? > > For disaster recovery I've had good results with SystemRecoveryCD > instead. It's small and boots quickly without a giant string of boot > command line options. As for compatibility, no idea sorry. Thanks Craig. Maybe I'll burn two cd's for two different purposes. > > -- > Craig Ringer > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -- Regards, Russ From russ at powerstech.com Fri Jul 30 21:48:35 2004 From: russ at powerstech.com (Russ Powers) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 21:48:35 +0800 Subject: [plug] knoppix In-Reply-To: <1091184753.2914.24.camel@localhost> References: <200407301748.12408.russ@powerstech.com> <410A1E92.1040708@postnewspapers.com.au> <1091184753.2914.24.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <200407302148.35769.russ@powerstech.com> On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 06:52 pm, Tim Bowden wrote: > On Fri, 2004-07-30 at 18:10, Craig Ringer wrote: > > Russ Powers wrote: > > > On mirror.3fl.net there's knoppix and knoppix-STD. Anybody have a > > > preference which is more useful as a tool for testing linux > > > compatibility and disaster recovery? > > > > For disaster recovery I've had good results with SystemRecoveryCD > > instead. It's small and boots quickly without a giant string of boot > > command line options. As for compatibility, no idea sorry. > > > > -- > > Craig Ringer > > Second that. You can find it here: > > http://www.sysresccd.org/ > > And here is a selection of other 'rescue' cd's: > http://www.linuxsecurity.com/docs/Hack-FAQ/unix/bootable-linux-distribution >s.shtml Thanks for the links! > > > HTH, > Tim Bowden > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -- Regards, Russ From adam_ashley at softhome.net Fri Jul 30 22:54:35 2004 From: adam_ashley at softhome.net (Adam Ashley) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 22:54:35 +0800 Subject: [plug] iPod 40GB vs iRiver H140 40GB In-Reply-To: <002301c475fd$d9aa7860$8b023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> References: <002301c475fd$d9aa7860$8b023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <1091199275.9038.8.camel@localhost> On Fri, 2004-07-30 at 14:24 +0800, Adam Hewitt wrote: > Hi All, > > I am currently looking for HDD mp3 player and I have basically narrowed > my choices down to these two. As these have enough differences to make > the dicision difficult I have started a list of pros and cons of each. > What I would like is some real world experiences that people have had > with each and if you have anything to add to the pro's and con's of > each. $650-750 is a lot to spend on an mp3 player and I would like to > make sure I have all my bases covered. > > Cheers, > > Adam. > > iPod: > > Pros: > Excellent user interface > ~$100 cheaper than iRiver (although I have found a place that does the > iRiver for the same price) > Massive amounts of third party add ons > > Cons: > No remote (Non-LCD one available as optinal accessory) > Battery doesn't last as long as iRiver > Doesn't support OGG > No Radio > No Record function without third party Mic > PC Magazine gives 4 stars > > iRiver: > > Pros: > LCD Remote > Radio > Recording functionality > Plays OGG > Shows up as external hard drive, so OS independent (??) > PC Magazine gives it 5 stars > > Cons: > iRiver don't have a presence in their own forums > Firmware is a little dodgy, however a new revision is due for August > (apparently) > Doesn't seem to have the same third party support > > > > -- > Adam Hewitt - CCNA, LCP > Systems Engineer, iiNet > I have the iRiver and its hands down better than the iPod, the audio quality is noticably better than any of the iPods ive listened too. You mention the lack of third party support as a con for the iRiver, frankly so what. 90% of the third party features of the iPod come as standard on the iRivier The firmware on the 140s is fine, havent had any problems with it. Also at JB Hifi the prices on the two are quite comparable. To your possible question yes the 140 does appear as a external hard drive. it works perfectly with the linux usb-storage driver. The only real issue I have with the 140 is that you cant record from the FM reciever and you need a seperate powerpack to charge it with, both of which are fixed in the 320 series (which despite what is said on the iRiver site is available and JB HiFi has em). Of course it changes the remote and gets rid of the LCD (my sister has one) frankly i prefer the 140. Adam From weirdo at tigris.org Sat Jul 31 22:34:02 2004 From: weirdo at tigris.org (Tim White) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 10:34:02 -0400 Subject: [plug] Thunderbird Delete Mail off POP3 server via filter Message-ID: <410BADDA.8060005@tigris.org> I am using Thunderbird 0.5 under Linux. (Deb package, side note, what apt source can I had so that I can get the latest firefox and thunderbird in deb package?) I have the account settings for my Optus POP3 account to leave the mail on the server. I have a few filters that are supposed to delete the mail of the server if they match the filter and move them to a different folder. It moves the mail to a different folder but doesn't delete them off the server. I set up a test filter and set some mail to myself that should have been deleted off the server and it doesn't work. Has anyone experianced this and know a fix? Tim From shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au Sat Jul 31 11:10:37 2004 From: shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au (Shayne O'Neill) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 11:10:37 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Thunderbird Delete Mail off POP3 server via filter In-Reply-To: <410BADDA.8060005@tigris.org> Message-ID: Do you have imap access? Leaving mail on server with a pop acct just sounds confusing. Try imap if you have it. The filters will probably be more sane also. -- "the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 27, 2003 Shayne O'Neill. http://www.perthimc.asn.au On Sat, 31 Jul 2004, Tim White wrote: > I am using Thunderbird 0.5 under Linux. (Deb package, side note, what > apt source can I had so that I can get the latest firefox and > thunderbird in deb package?) > I have the account settings for my Optus POP3 account to leave the mail > on the server. I have a few filters that are supposed to delete the mail > of the server if they match the filter and move them to a different > folder. It moves the mail to a different folder but doesn't delete them > off the server. > I set up a test filter and set some mail to myself that should have been > deleted off the server and it doesn't work. > Has anyone experianced this and know a fix? > Tim > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From weirdo at tigris.org Sat Jul 31 23:24:05 2004 From: weirdo at tigris.org (Tim White) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 11:24:05 -0400 Subject: [plug] Thunderbird Delete Mail off POP3 server via filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <410BB995.5000507@tigris.org> No IMAP. Its so I can delete Junk and other stuff off the server and when I get home just download all the nice emails I want. Tim Shayne O'Neill wrote: >Do you have imap access? Leaving mail on server with a pop acct just >sounds confusing. > >Try imap if you have it. The filters will probably be more sane also. > > From shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au Sat Jul 31 11:36:43 2004 From: shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au (Shayne O'Neill) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 11:36:43 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Thunderbird Delete Mail off POP3 server via filter In-Reply-To: <410BB995.5000507@tigris.org> Message-ID: Hmm :( Theres a nifty little windows app called mailwasher. Dunno if there is a linux equivilent. The mailwasher thing just gets the headers off a pop server and lets you smack thru em and delete spam etc. I think it uses some of the less retarded spam lists to recomend deletes. wine? -- "the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 27, 2003 Shayne O'Neill. http://www.perthimc.asn.au On Sat, 31 Jul 2004, Tim White wrote: > No IMAP. Its so I can delete Junk and other stuff off the server and > when I get home just download all the nice emails I want. > Tim > Shayne O'Neill wrote: > > >Do you have imap access? Leaving mail on server with a pop acct just > >sounds confusing. > > > >Try imap if you have it. The filters will probably be more sane also. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From trevor.phillips at gmail.com Sat Jul 31 11:43:56 2004 From: trevor.phillips at gmail.com (Trevor Phillips) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 11:43:56 +0800 Subject: [plug] Westnet Usage Monitor for Linux In-Reply-To: References: <3fff79a804073001576ffba621@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3fff79a804073020433b814493@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 17:05:23 +0800, Senectus . wrote: > I saw something on the linux section of the whirlpool.net.au forum... > I can't remember if they ever finished it though I did some digging on the Whirlpool forums - seems the Westnet management have decreed Usage apps to use encryption keys, and not allowing opensource solutions. Hence there doesn't appear to be any Linux capable version at this stage... I wonder how well the Windows ones run under Wine? ^_^ -- Trevor Phillips - http://jurai.murdoch.edu.au/ Web Technical Administrator - IT Services, Murdoch University "On nights such as this, evil deeds are done. And good deeds, of course. But mostly evil, on the whole." -- (Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters) From marks at omninet.net.au Sat Jul 31 12:52:21 2004 From: marks at omninet.net.au (Mark Saxon) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 12:52:21 +0800 Subject: [plug] weird Mandrake 10 problem: reset URPMI In-Reply-To: <200407300936.10474.leon@brooks.fdns.net> References: <200407291206.26427.simon@plumtek.com> <200407300936.10474.leon@brooks.fdns.net> Message-ID: <410B2585.3050001@omninet.net.au> Leon Brooks wrote: >On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 12:06, Simon Scott wrote: > > >>Lastly, how do I force a reinstall with urpmi? >> >> > >urpmi.removemedia -a > >edit /etc/urpmi/urpmi.conf and clean out any crud > >delete any *.nameofurpmisource files in /var/lib/urpmi > >urpmi.addmedium main \ > http://mandrake.waixusers.net/pub/official/10.0/i586/Mandrake/RPMS \ > with ../base/hdlist.cz >urpmi.addmedium contrib \ > http://mandrake.waixusers.net/pub/official/10.0/i586/Mandrake/RPMS2 \ > with ../base/hdlist2.cz >urpmi.addmedium --update updates \ > http://mandrake.waixusers.net/pub/official/updates/10.0/RPMS \ > with ../base/hdlist.cz >urpmi --auto-select >urpmi kernel > >Cheers; Leon > For those of us who don't have access to waix is there another good local mirror for urpmi. Mark >_______________________________________________ >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au >http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > > From caston at arach.net.au Sat Jul 31 13:42:46 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (chris) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 13:42:46 +0800 Subject: [plug] OS Radeon drivers Message-ID: <1091252566.2931.4.camel@localhost> Hello, I have an issue with KDE on Debian Sid where it often will freeze up when using alt-tab. At this point I cannot restart X or switch to a virtual terminal. I can still do limited things on the K menu like log-out. I have been told that there is a bug on the ATI driver for Radeon 9200se and that the open source driver (while lacking some features due to IP reasons) is much more stable. Does anyone here know how I can switch over to the open source driver. I usually don't care much about graphics drivers but this freezing up is really any issue. The XF86 config I'm using was generated using Knoppix.Section "Device" is as follows: Section "Device" ### Available Driver options are:- # sw_cursor is needed for some ati and radeon cards #Option "sw_cursor" #Option "hw_cursor" #Option "NoAccel" #Option "ShowCache" #Option "ShadowFB" #Option "UseFBDev" #Option "Rotate" Identifier "Card0" # The following line is auto-generated by KNOPPIX mkxf86config Driver "vesa" VendorName "All" BoardName "All" # BusID "PCI:1:0:0" EndSection Thanks for your help. regards, Chris Caston From r.steicke at bom.gov.au Sat Jul 31 15:00:57 2004 From: r.steicke at bom.gov.au (Russell Steicke) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 15:00:57 +0800 Subject: [plug] OS Radeon drivers In-Reply-To: <1091252566.2931.4.camel@localhost> References: <1091252566.2931.4.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20040731070057.GU1524@postoffice.wa.bom.gov.au> On Sat, Jul 31, 2004 at 01:42:46PM +0800, chris wrote: > Hello, > > I have an issue with KDE on Debian Sid where it often will freeze up > when using > alt-tab. At this point I cannot restart X or switch to a virtual > terminal. > > I can still do limited things on the K menu like log-out. > > I have been told that there is a bug on the ATI driver for Radeon 9200se > and that the open source driver (while lacking some features due to IP > reasons) is much more stable. > > Does anyone here know how I can switch over to the open source driver. My laptop has this chipset: $ sudo lspci ... 0000:01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon Mobility M7 LW [Radeon Mobility 7500] ... $ And has this Device in XF86Config: Section "Device" Identifier "Generic Video Card" Driver "radeon" BusID "PCI:1:0:0" VideoRam 32768 EndSection radeon(4x) says that the radeon driver is for both your and my chipsets. However, you implied that you're using a proprietary ATI driver. That doesn't appear to be the case: you're using the vesa driver, which is for generic video cards. I suppose it can't hurt to try the other driver anyway. > > I usually don't care much about graphics drivers but this freezing up is > really > any issue. > > The XF86 config I'm using was generated using Knoppix.Section "Device" > is as follows: > > Section "Device" > ### Available Driver options are:- > # sw_cursor is needed for some ati and radeon cards > #Option "sw_cursor" > #Option "hw_cursor" > #Option "NoAccel" > #Option "ShowCache" > #Option "ShadowFB" > #Option "UseFBDev" > #Option "Rotate" > Identifier "Card0" > # The following line is auto-generated by KNOPPIX mkxf86config > Driver "vesa" > VendorName "All" > BoardName "All" > # BusID "PCI:1:0:0" > EndSection > > Thanks for your help. > > regards, > > Chris Caston > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > -- Russell Steicke -- Fortune says: I knew her before she was a virgin. -- Oscar Levant, on Doris Day From caston at arach.net.au Sat Jul 31 17:18:16 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (chris) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 17:18:16 +0800 Subject: [plug] OS Radeon drivers In-Reply-To: <20040731070057.GU1524@postoffice.wa.bom.gov.au> References: <1091252566.2931.4.camel@localhost> <20040731070057.GU1524@postoffice.wa.bom.gov.au> Message-ID: <1091265496.2931.9.camel@localhost> On Sat, 2004-07-31 at 15:00, Russell Steicke wrote: > On Sat, Jul 31, 2004 at 01:42:46PM +0800, chris wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I have an issue with KDE on Debian Sid where it often will freeze up > > when using > > alt-tab. At this point I cannot restart X or switch to a virtual > > terminal. > > > > I can still do limited things on the K menu like log-out. > > > > I have been told that there is a bug on the ATI driver for Radeon 9200se > > and that the open source driver (while lacking some features due to IP > > reasons) is much more stable. > > > > Does anyone here know how I can switch over to the open source driver. > > My laptop has this chipset: > > $ sudo lspci > ... > 0000:01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon Mobility M7 LW [Radeon Mobility 7500] > ... > $ > > And has this Device in XF86Config: > > Section "Device" > Identifier "Generic Video Card" > Driver "radeon" > BusID "PCI:1:0:0" > VideoRam 32768 > EndSection > > radeon(4x) says that the radeon driver is for both your and my chipsets. > > However, you implied that you're using a proprietary ATI driver. That > doesn't appear to be the case: you're using the vesa driver, which is > for generic video cards. I suppose it can't hurt to try the other > driver anyway. > OK I posted that snipped of the config file because I was very suspicious that was the case. lspci gives me: 0000:01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV280 [Radeon 9200 SE] (rev 01) 0000:01:00.1 Displplay controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV280 [Radeon 9200 SE] (Se condary) (rev 01) So I guess I can try the Radeon driver you specified. Is that the OS one or the vendor driver? It will take a while for me to find out if it has fixed the problem because it only occurs about once every 2-3 days. > > > > > > I usually don't care much about graphics drivers but this freezing up is > > really > > any issue. > > > > The XF86 config I'm using was generated using Knoppix.Section "Device" > > is as follows: > > > > Section "Device" > > ### Available Driver options are:- > > # sw_cursor is needed for some ati and radeon cards > > #Option "sw_cursor" > > #Option "hw_cursor" > > #Option "NoAccel" > > #Option "ShowCache" > > #Option "ShadowFB" > > #Option "UseFBDev" > > #Option "Rotate" > > Identifier "Card0" > > # The following line is auto-generated by KNOPPIX mkxf86config > > Driver "vesa" > > VendorName "All" > > BoardName "All" > > # BusID "PCI:1:0:0" > > EndSection > > > > Thanks for your help. > > > > regards, > > > > Chris Caston > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > > From r.steicke at bom.gov.au Sat Jul 31 17:19:39 2004 From: r.steicke at bom.gov.au (Russell Steicke) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 17:19:39 +0800 Subject: [plug] OS Radeon drivers In-Reply-To: <1091265496.2931.9.camel@localhost> References: <1091252566.2931.4.camel@localhost> <20040731070057.GU1524@postoffice.wa.bom.gov.au> <1091265496.2931.9.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20040731091939.GV1524@postoffice.wa.bom.gov.au> On Sat, Jul 31, 2004 at 05:18:16PM +0800, chris wrote: ... > So I guess I can try the Radeon driver you specified. Is that the OS one > or the vendor driver? It's the one in sarge's xserver-xfree86 4.3.0.dfsg.1-4. > It will take a while for me to find out if it has fixed the problem > because it only occurs about once every 2-3 days. Good luck. -- Russell Steicke -- Fortune says: Curiosity killed the cat, but satisfaction brought her back. From chriswhittaker at smartchat.net.au Sat Jul 31 17:37:26 2004 From: chriswhittaker at smartchat.net.au (chris whittaker) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 17:37:26 +0800 Subject: [plug] Help Message-ID: <1091266645.2613.5.camel@localhost> Hello All, I am a newby to Linux and have so far muddled through. I have tried Xandros, Lycoris, Red hat 8 and 9, fedora and finally Mandrake 10.o. I am having trouble with installation and i would appreciate some help. basically I can install RPMs , i dont know where they go when i do but so far installation of RPMs seems to be ok. the big problem I am having is with installing TAR.BZ packages.I would like to install some programs from a disc and also from the internet. I have tried through the KONSOLE as both root and user and I can still not get them to work. Any help or suggestions would be greatfully recieved. Thanks Chris Whittaker From caston at arach.net.au Sat Jul 31 18:04:16 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (chris) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 18:04:16 +0800 Subject: [plug] Customer wants to move away from Windows but.. Message-ID: <1091268256.2931.11.camel@localhost> She came accross this comparison on the web. I think it is a bit biased. Any comments? From caston at arach.net.au Sat Jul 31 18:05:19 2004 From: caston at arach.net.au (chris) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 18:05:19 +0800 Subject: [plug] Customer wants to move away from Windows but... Message-ID: <1091268319.2931.13.camel@localhost> She came accross this comparison on the web. I think it is a bit biased. Any comments? http://people.freebsd.org/~murray/bsd_flier.html regards, Chris From devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au Sat Jul 31 18:05:09 2004 From: devenish at guild.uwa.edu.au (James Devenish) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 18:05:09 +0800 Subject: [plug] Customer wants to move away from Windows but... In-Reply-To: <1091268319.2931.13.camel@localhost> References: <1091268319.2931.13.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20040731100509.GA3921@mail.guild.uwa.edu.au> In message <1091268319.2931.13.camel at localhost> on Sat, Jul 31, 2004 at 06:05:19PM +0800, chris wrote: > I think it is a bit biased. Looks more out-of-date than biased, so you'd have to ask yourself whether the comparison was accurate in January 2002 (rather than whether it is fair at the present time). I've only skimmed it, but I thought it looked reasonable for January 2002 (not that I know enough about Linux to really tell). > http://people.freebsd.org/~murray/bsd_flier.html From garbuck at westnet.com.au Sat Jul 31 18:21:40 2004 From: garbuck at westnet.com.au (Garry) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 18:21:40 +0800 Subject: [plug] Help In-Reply-To: <1091266645.2613.5.camel@localhost> References: <1091266645.2613.5.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <410B72B4.2010001@westnet.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 | the big problem I am having is with installing TAR.BZ packages.I would | like to install some programs from a disc and also from the internet. I | have tried through the KONSOLE as both root and user and I can still not | get them to work. | tar.bz files are zipped up collections of files. To unzip, use "tar jxvf filename.tar.bz" at a prompt. The installation instructions will be inside. You will need to cd into the "filename" directory to get to them.. HTH Garry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBC3K0vdH9DANniC8RAj3WAJ9tP12vn/cfR6z+0krcj86j5NCDcwCeNq5l /ZhkqzuU1fFKQlelPCvHLxA= =ihYI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From garbuck at westnet.com.au Sat Jul 31 18:28:31 2004 From: garbuck at westnet.com.au (Garry) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 18:28:31 +0800 Subject: [plug] SCSI cards Message-ID: <410B744F.3040709@westnet.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 SCSI cards have been discussed before, but today I was asked about a SCSI card for speed... The guy wants to edit video under Linux. So I guess he'll want to gain speed and capacity using multiple PATA drives. I _think_ someone suggested Adaptec as a good one for Linux some time ago, does anyone have any current suggestions of suitable gear? TIA Garry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBC3RPvdH9DANniC8RAubuAKCXzdE1P+iDY8fwH9IT7Tt0lCaOqwCeNXVV NvCBTo5hoknXB82PePh66C8= =gKLL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From myk at westnet.com.au Sat Jul 31 18:35:11 2004 From: myk at westnet.com.au (Michael Holland) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 18:35:11 +0800 (WST) Subject: [plug] Help In-Reply-To: <1091266645.2613.5.camel@localhost> References: <1091266645.2613.5.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Sat, 31 Jul 2004, chris whittaker wrote: > the big problem I am having is with installing TAR.BZ packages.I would These are not software packages. They are the unix equiv of ZIP files. Unpack it with "tar -xvjf " and start reading the README. If it's source code, you may want to go looking for a pre-compiled alternative at this stage. Do you have an introductory book on Linux yet? -- The best things in life go on sale sooner or later. From plug at enterprisefusion.com.au Sat Jul 31 18:57:14 2004 From: plug at enterprisefusion.com.au (Perth Linux Users Group) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 18:57:14 +0800 Subject: [plug] Video Capture Card Message-ID: <011201c476ed$23742f00$0400000a@enterprisefusion.com.au> Hi This is my first post to the group, so a big gday to all :o) Does anyone have any experience with the MiroVideo DC30+ on Lunix ? Its a Zoran based PCI card with quite limited support from its IP owners, pinnacle-sys.com Apart from that, its a broadcast quality analog capture device. Which distro would be best? Also if there are any driver resources that would be good also. I'm considering running Cinelerra to set up a network rendering scenario. Cheers, Douglas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Sat Jul 31 19:58:44 2004 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 19:58:44 +0800 Subject: [plug] SCSI cards In-Reply-To: <410B744F.3040709@westnet.com.au> References: <410B744F.3040709@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <200407311958.44613@death.2.spammers> On Saturday 31 July 2004 18:28, Garry wrote: > SCSI cards have been discussed before, but today I was asked about a > SCSI card for speed... The guy wants to edit video under Linux. So I > guess he'll want to gain speed and capacity using multiple PATA drives. > I _think_ someone suggested Adaptec as a good one for Linux some time > ago, does anyone have any current suggestions of suitable gear? Any controllers that support U320 will provide more than enough bandwidth. Best to use a mainboard with a couple of embedded channels. Most of the U320 controllers require 64-bit PCI anyway - which usually have the U320 option at reasonable cost. PATA/SATA drives simply aren't up to speed; quite literally when compared to the fastest SCSI. Some of the SCSI drives have sustained throughputs in excess of 80 megabytes per second; so four on each U320 channel are enough to saturate the channel completely. To give you an idea of how much that is in terms of video; it's about 8 broadcast-quality video channels per SCSI drive. A single PATA running at 7200 rpm is _enough_ for broadcast-quality editing; but you have to be patient. If you stripe and mirror across 4 drives, then there's ample bandwidth. The SCSI-based system has vastly greater headroom. Depending on how well the kernel (driver) manages the IO, the CPU's FSB could be saturated with data from 6 drives. A 5-drive @7200 rpm PATA-based system with single 32-bit CPU and gigabyte of RAM could be thrown together for about $2000. A 6-drive @15,000 rpm U320 SCSI with dual Opteron (64-bit) CPUs and a gigabyte of ECC RAM for about $5000. You gets what you pays for. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! From senectus at gmail.com Sat Jul 31 20:04:30 2004 From: senectus at gmail.com (Senectus .) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 20:04:30 +0800 Subject: [plug] Westnet Usage Monitor for Linux In-Reply-To: <3fff79a804073020433b814493@mail.gmail.com> References: <3fff79a804073001576ffba621@mail.gmail.com> <3fff79a804073020433b814493@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dunno but I got a reply from a Westnet rep that said he was still thinking of us and to check back in a few months... http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=128668&p=3 I have "cedega 4.0" here so I'll give that a go with the WUG software... On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 11:43:56 +0800, Trevor Phillips wrote: > On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 17:05:23 +0800, Senectus . wrote: > > I saw something on the linux section of the whirlpool.net.au forum... > > I can't remember if they ever finished it though > > I did some digging on the Whirlpool forums - seems the Westnet > management have decreed Usage apps to use encryption keys, and not > allowing opensource solutions. Hence there doesn't appear to be any > Linux capable version at this stage... > > I wonder how well the Windows ones run under Wine? ^_^ > > > > -- > Trevor Phillips - http://jurai.murdoch.edu.au/ > Web Technical Administrator - IT Services, Murdoch University > "On nights such as this, evil deeds are done. And good deeds, of > course. But mostly evil, on the whole." > -- (Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters) > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > -- Attacking Linus' integrity and character is like clubbing baby seals. - PJ, Groklaw.net From nofixed at westnet.com.au Sat Jul 31 20:23:44 2004 From: nofixed at westnet.com.au (Jim Householder) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 20:23:44 +0800 Subject: [plug] weird Mandrake 10 problem: reset URPMI In-Reply-To: <410B2585.3050001@omninet.net.au> References: <200407291206.26427.simon@plumtek.com> <200407300936.10474.leon@brooks.fdns.net> <410B2585.3050001@omninet.net.au> Message-ID: <410B8F50.5070306@westnet.com.au> Mark Saxon wrote: > Leon Brooks wrote: > >> On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 12:06, Simon Scott wrote: >> >> >>> Lastly, how do I force a reinstall with urpmi? >>> >> >> >> urpmi.removemedia -a >> >> edit /etc/urpmi/urpmi.conf and clean out any crud >> >> delete any *.nameofurpmisource files in /var/lib/urpmi >> >> urpmi.addmedium main \ >> http://mandrake.waixusers.net/pub/official/10.0/i586/Mandrake/RPMS \ >> with ../base/hdlist.cz >> urpmi.addmedium contrib \ >> http://mandrake.waixusers.net/pub/official/10.0/i586/Mandrake/RPMS2 \ >> with ../base/hdlist2.cz >> urpmi.addmedium --update updates \ >> http://mandrake.waixusers.net/pub/official/updates/10.0/RPMS \ >> with ../base/hdlist.cz >> urpmi --auto-select >> urpmi kernel >> >> Cheers; Leon >> > > > For those of us who don't have access to waix is there another good local > mirror for urpmi. > > I would think that the sources above would be available to all, just not necessarily free traffic. Just a guess. Try and see. Jim From fiasco_j at iinet.net.au Sat Jul 31 20:28:12 2004 From: fiasco_j at iinet.net.au (John H) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 20:28:12 +0800 Subject: [plug] iPod 40GB vs iRiver H140 40GB In-Reply-To: <002301c475fd$d9aa7860$8b023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> References: <002301c475fd$d9aa7860$8b023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <200407312028.13372.fiasco_j@iinet.net.au> I bought the iriver H140 I like it. Pros: PLays .ogg Records Apparent good batterylife Easily mounts on my debian pc, with tthe usb cable. $50 for a Belken FM transmitter and I can listen to any of my music collection in the car. 4,500 tracks about 13 gb. cons: doesn't charge through the usb cable. i t has saved me putting mp3 cd player in 2 family cars and all the messy creating of cds. John On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 02:24 pm, Adam Hewitt wrote: > Hi All, > > I am currently looking for HDD mp3 player and I have basically narrowed > my choices down to these two. As these have enough differences to make > the dicision difficult I have started a list of pros and cons of each. > What I would like is some real world experiences that people have had > with each and if you have anything to add to the pro's and con's of > each. $650-750 is a lot to spend on an mp3 player and I would like to > make sure I have all my bases covered. > > Cheers, > > Adam. > > iPod: > > Pros: > Excellent user interface > ~$100 cheaper than iRiver (although I have found a place that does the > iRiver for the same price) > Massive amounts of third party add ons > > Cons: > No remote (Non-LCD one available as optinal accessory) > Battery doesn't last as long as iRiver > Doesn't support OGG > No Radio > No Record function without third party Mic > PC Magazine gives 4 stars > > iRiver: > > Pros: > LCD Remote > Radio > Recording functionality > Plays OGG > Shows up as external hard drive, so OS independent (??) > PC Magazine gives it 5 stars > > Cons: > iRiver don't have a presence in their own forums > Firmware is a little dodgy, however a new revision is due for August > (apparently) > Doesn't seem to have the same third party support > > > > -- > Adam Hewitt - CCNA, LCP > Systems Engineer, iiNet > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -- Rick: "What's the difference ? There'll be plenty of chicks for these tigers on the road to the promised land! Who cares about Thatcher and unemployment? We can do just exactly whatever we want to do! And do you know why? Because we're Young Ones! Bachelor Boys! Wild eyed big bottomed anarchists! LOOK OUT !!! CLLLLLIIIIIFFFF !!!" From marks at omninet.net.au Sat Jul 31 21:00:59 2004 From: marks at omninet.net.au (Mark Saxon) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 21:00:59 +0800 Subject: [plug] weird Mandrake 10 problem: reset URPMI In-Reply-To: <410B8F50.5070306@westnet.com.au> References: <200407291206.26427.simon@plumtek.com> <200407300936.10474.leon@brooks.fdns.net> <410B2585.3050001@omninet.net.au> <410B8F50.5070306@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <410B980B.9040708@omninet.net.au> Jim Householder wrote: > Mark Saxon wrote: > >> Leon Brooks wrote: >> >>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 12:06, Simon Scott wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Lastly, how do I force a reinstall with urpmi? >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> urpmi.removemedia -a >>> >>> edit /etc/urpmi/urpmi.conf and clean out any crud >>> >>> delete any *.nameofurpmisource files in /var/lib/urpmi >>> >>> urpmi.addmedium main \ >>> http://mandrake.waixusers.net/pub/official/10.0/i586/Mandrake/RPMS \ >>> with ../base/hdlist.cz >>> urpmi.addmedium contrib \ >>> http://mandrake.waixusers.net/pub/official/10.0/i586/Mandrake/RPMS2 \ >>> with ../base/hdlist2.cz >>> urpmi.addmedium --update updates \ >>> http://mandrake.waixusers.net/pub/official/updates/10.0/RPMS \ >>> with ../base/hdlist.cz >>> urpmi --auto-select >>> urpmi kernel >>> >>> Cheers; Leon >>> >> >> >> For those of us who don't have access to waix is there another good >> local >> mirror for urpmi. >> >> > I would think that the sources above would be available to all, just > not necessarily free traffic. Just a guess. Try and see. > > Jim > ______ Not really. mark > _________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > From nofixed at westnet.com.au Sat Jul 31 21:13:12 2004 From: nofixed at westnet.com.au (Jim Householder) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 21:13:12 +0800 Subject: [plug] Frozen-bubble Message-ID: <410B9AE8.4030907@westnet.com.au> I have installed frozen-bubble as part of a Mdk 10.0 install. When I try to run it I get: Can't load '/usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.2/i386-linux-thread-multi/auto/SDL_perl/SDL_perl.so' for module SDL_perl: libGL.so.1: cannot handle TLS data at /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.3/i386-linux-thread-multi/DynaLoader.pm line 229. at /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.2/i386-linux-thread-multi/SDL.pm line 9 Compilation failed in require at /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.2/i386-linux-thread-multi/SDL.pm line 9. BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.2/i386-linux-thread-multi/SDL.pm line 9. Compilation failed in require at /usr/games/frozen-bubble line 51. BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/games/frozen-bubble line 51. /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.2/i386-linux-thread-multi/auto/SDL_perl/SDL_perl.so exists, and it and all directories above it have root owner and 755 permissions. What's not right? TIA Jim From adam_ashley at softhome.net Sat Jul 31 22:00:17 2004 From: adam_ashley at softhome.net (Adam Ashley) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 22:00:17 +0800 Subject: [plug] iPod 40GB vs iRiver H140 40GB In-Reply-To: <200407312028.13372.fiasco_j@iinet.net.au> References: <002301c475fd$d9aa7860$8b023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> <200407312028.13372.fiasco_j@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <1091282417.9036.3.camel@localhost> where did you get the belken FM transmitter? and whats it quality like? I've been trying to get one for my 140 but havent been able to find one yet Adam On Sat, 2004-07-31 at 20:28 +0800, John H wrote: > > I bought the iriver H140 > I like it. > Pros: PLays .ogg > Records > Apparent good batterylife > Easily mounts on my debian pc, with tthe usb cable. > $50 for a Belken FM transmitter and I can listen to any of my music collection > in the car. > 4,500 tracks about 13 gb. > cons: doesn't charge through the usb cable. > > i t has saved me putting mp3 cd player in 2 family cars and all the messy > creating of cds. > > John > > On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 02:24 pm, Adam Hewitt wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > I am currently looking for HDD mp3 player and I have basically narrowed > > my choices down to these two. As these have enough differences to make > > the dicision difficult I have started a list of pros and cons of each. > > What I would like is some real world experiences that people have had > > with each and if you have anything to add to the pro's and con's of > > each. $650-750 is a lot to spend on an mp3 player and I would like to > > make sure I have all my bases covered. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Adam. > > > > iPod: > > > > Pros: > > Excellent user interface > > ~$100 cheaper than iRiver (although I have found a place that does the > > iRiver for the same price) > > Massive amounts of third party add ons > > > > Cons: > > No remote (Non-LCD one available as optinal accessory) > > Battery doesn't last as long as iRiver > > Doesn't support OGG > > No Radio > > No Record function without third party Mic > > PC Magazine gives 4 stars > > > > iRiver: > > > > Pros: > > LCD Remote > > Radio > > Recording functionality > > Plays OGG > > Shows up as external hard drive, so OS independent (??) > > PC Magazine gives it 5 stars > > > > Cons: > > iRiver don't have a presence in their own forums > > Firmware is a little dodgy, however a new revision is due for August > > (apparently) > > Doesn't seem to have the same third party support > > > > > > > > -- > > Adam Hewitt - CCNA, LCP > > Systems Engineer, iiNet > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > From fiasco_j at iinet.net.au Sat Jul 31 22:18:57 2004 From: fiasco_j at iinet.net.au (John H) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 22:18:57 +0800 Subject: [plug] iPod 40GB vs iRiver H140 40GB In-Reply-To: <1091282417.9036.3.camel@localhost> References: <002301c475fd$d9aa7860$8b023b0a@win2k.iinet.net.au> <200407312028.13372.fiasco_j@iinet.net.au> <1091282417.9036.3.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <200407312218.57622.fiasco_j@iinet.net.au> Dick's (Tandy). It sounds as good as a strong FM radio. I'm in heaven. Family driving other car behind could also tune in, although I find the strongest signal & least interference with it sat on the centre console. (although I often leave the whole iriver/fm transmitter in my pocket and just clip the remote on my shirt-front.) john On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 10:00 pm, Adam Ashley wrote: > where did you get the belken FM transmitter? and whats it quality like? > > I've been trying to get one for my 140 but havent been able to find one > yet > > Adam > > On Sat, 2004-07-31 at 20:28 +0800, John H wrote: > > I bought the iriver H140 > > I like it. > > Pros: PLays .ogg > > Records > > Apparent good batterylife > > Easily mounts on my debian pc, with tthe usb cable. > > $50 for a Belken FM transmitter and I can listen to any of my music > > collection in the car. > > 4,500 tracks about 13 gb. > > cons: doesn't charge through the usb cable. > > > > i t has saved me putting mp3 cd player in 2 family cars and all the messy > > creating of cds. > > > > John > > > > On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 02:24 pm, Adam Hewitt wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > > > I am currently looking for HDD mp3 player and I have basically narrowed > > > my choices down to these two. As these have enough differences to make > > > the dicision difficult I have started a list of pros and cons of each. > > > What I would like is some real world experiences that people have had > > > with each and if you have anything to add to the pro's and con's of > > > each. $650-750 is a lot to spend on an mp3 player and I would like to > > > make sure I have all my bases covered. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Adam. > > > > > > iPod: > > > > > > Pros: > > > Excellent user interface > > > ~$100 cheaper than iRiver (although I have found a place that does the > > > iRiver for the same price) > > > Massive amounts of third party add ons > > > > > > Cons: > > > No remote (Non-LCD one available as optinal accessory) > > > Battery doesn't last as long as iRiver > > > Doesn't support OGG > > > No Radio > > > No Record function without third party Mic > > > PC Magazine gives 4 stars > > > > > > iRiver: > > > > > > Pros: > > > LCD Remote > > > Radio > > > Recording functionality > > > Plays OGG > > > Shows up as external hard drive, so OS independent (??) > > > PC Magazine gives it 5 stars > > > > > > Cons: > > > iRiver don't have a presence in their own forums > > > Firmware is a little dodgy, however a new revision is due for August > > > (apparently) > > > Doesn't seem to have the same third party support > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Adam Hewitt - CCNA, LCP > > > Systems Engineer, iiNet > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > > > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > > > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au > http://mail.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au -- Nonsense, this is a far superior drink to meths. The wankers don't drink it because they can't afford it. -Withnail