[plug] musing on HDD types (William Kenworthy)

Sun Apr 25 15:26:13 AWST 2021

It's not worth getting anything other than cheapest non-SMR drives IMO for
nearly any use case... you can get performance by aggregating enough drives
anyways

On Sun, Apr 25, 2021 at 3:25 PM Benjamin <zorlin at gmail.com> wrote:

> LizardFS is a bag of hurt with dead development. Proceed with hella
> caution if you go that route. I hope it changes and becomes worth pursuing
> though.
>
> MFSpro is justifiable around 50TiB and up, until then it's not really
> worth it.
>
> On Sun, Apr 25, 2021 at 3:22 PM William Kenworthy <billk at iinet.net.au>
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Ben and Paul - this backs up my readings/experience.
>>
>> I will shortly need a new archive drive because I have lest than 80Gb
>> left on the 2Tb WD green I have been using for a  few years.  As
>> performance isn't an issue I will likely go with a Seagate Barracuda this
>> time (still debating shingled or not because this use is more cost
>> sensitive than performance on writing new data across a network - so low
>> priority, busy, but not excessively so when in use - I am happy to allow
>> time for the shingling resilvering to complete as long as it doesn't impact
>> time to actually backup the data too much.)
>>
>> Moosefs is more difficult to quantify whats needed - currently:
>>
>> 8 hosts (8 HDD, 1x M2.SSD, 6x arm32, 1x arm64 and 1x intel - all odroid
>> using gentoo)
>>
>> ~21Tb space, 3/4 in use. I could delete some as there is duplicate data
>> stored so if I lose a drive I can reclaim space easily as well as decrease
>> the goal in some places.
>>
>> As well, I am using storage classes.  High use data has mostly 1 chunk on
>> the intel/SSD for performance and others on HDD's.  I have sc's ranging
>> from 1 to 4 copies with 2, 3 and 4 in common use ... for example things
>> like VM's where there are hot spots with temp file creation I have 2 copies
>> (2SH) whereas backups and user data have 4 copies 4HHHH or 4SHHH depending
>> on priority (eg, /home).  Currently I have one WD Green drive I would
>> already toss if in a commercial system, and two Seagate NAS drives I am not
>> totally happy with.
>>
>> For these, definitely non-shingled (CMR) 7200rpm around 4TB seems ideal -
>> but is a NAS optimised drive useful or a waste for moosefs? - vibration of
>> nearby drives is the only thing I can think of.  Some are bound together
>> (5x odroid HC2) and some are in pairs in relatively heavy PC case baymounts
>> (removed/pinched - from my sons ongoing gaming PC build :) placed on a
>> desk.  I am staring to lean towards the WD blacks for this, but the HGST
>> lines WD are starting to integrate are interesting though more expensive
>> ...
>>
>> I would love to have MFSpro but cant justify it as super uptime isn't
>> necessary, EC isn't really attractive at my scale and multiple masters
>> isn't essential as I have plenty of alternative systems I could bring in
>> quickly ... though I am watching lizardfs and just might jump to it to get
>> the multiple masters that is in the free tier.
>>
>> BillK
>>
>>
>> On 25/4/21 1:19 pm, Benjamin wrote:
>>
>> +1 to all of it, cheers Paul.
>>
>> I think it's worth going for the cheapest externals you can get, shucking
>> them, then using MooseFS since you're already planning to.
>>
>> I'd use copies=3 and if you're storing more than 50TB talk to me about
>> mfspro.
>>
>> On Sun, 25 Apr 2021, 13:03 Paul Del, <p at delfante.it> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Bill
>>>
>>> My 2 cents worth
>>>
>>> I am sure you know the common things that can increase your hard drives
>>> life and performance:
>>> Temperature
>>> Humidity
>>> VIbration
>>> Heavy Writes
>>> Heaving Logging
>>> Clean/Reliable power
>>> Data throughput
>>>
>>> The rust hard drives I have seen the most failures with are: (I
>>> recommend avoiding)
>>> WD Green
>>> WD Blue
>>> Hitachi Deskstar
>>> (Not The server drives)
>>>
>>> The rust hard drives I recommend the most are:
>>> WD Black 7200rpm or better
>>> Seagate 7200pm or better
>>> (Not Red, Blue, Green, Purple)
>>>
>>> If you are doing the moose distribute setup
>>> You could always choose two different brands/types
>>>
>>> if you want to know more specific things about which hard drive
>>> failures. Check out this from backblaze, I am sure there's more around.
>>> Which is one Benjamin sent around ages ago.
>>> https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaze-hard-drive-stats-for-2020/
>>> https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaze-hard-drive-stats-q2-2020/
>>>
>>> Thanks Paul
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, 24 Apr 2021, 09:02 William Kenworthy, <billk at iinet.net.au>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Just musing on what changes I could make to streamline my systems:
>>> >
>>> > After a recent stray "r m  - r f " with a space in it I ended up
>>> > removing both most of my active data files, VM's etc ... and the online
>>> > backups - ouch!
>>> >
>>> > I have restored from offline backups and have noticed a ~10years old WD
>>> > green drive showing a few early symptoms of failing (SMART).
>>> >
>>> > With the plethora of colours now available (!) now what drive is best
>>> for
>>> > a:
>>> >
>>> >     1. moosefs chunkserver (stores files for VM's, data including the
>>> > mail servers user files, home directories and of course the online
>>> > borgbackup archives - the disks are basically hammered all the time.)
>>> >
>>> >     2. offline backups (~2tb data using borgbackup to backup the online
>>> > borgbackup repo, used twice a week for a few minutes at a time.)
>>> >
>>> > My longest serving drives are WD greens 2Tb which until now have just
>>> > keep ticking along.  The failing drive is a WD Green - I have run
>>> > badblocks on it overnight with no errors so far so it might have
>>> > internally remapped the failed sectors ok - I am using xfs which does
>>> > not have badblock support.  Most drives spent previous years in btrfs
>>> > raid 10's or ceph so they have had a hard life!
>>> >
>>> > Newer WD Reds and a Red pro have failed over the years but I still have
>>> > two in the mix (6tb and 2tb)
>>> >
>>> > Some Seagate Ironwolfs that show some SMART errors Backblaze correlate
>>> > with drive failure and throw an occasional USB interface error but
>>> > otherwise seem OK.
>>> >
>>> > There are shingled, non-shingled drives, surveillance, NAS flavours
>>> etc.
>>> > - but what have people had success with? - or should I just choose my
>>> > favourite colour and run with it?
>>> >
>>> > Thoughts?
>>> >
>>> > BillK
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>>
>>
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