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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">and for those of you who have not
      thought about it ... a recent presentation at the ACS said laws
      have recently changed as that the last person in an Australian
      jurisdiction has responsibility for ensuring that data security
      meets all Australian regulations, even if the data is stored in a
      cloud and may end up overseas.  So if ASIC gets interested in a
      corporate data leak, you cant say I sent it to
      Amazon/Azure/WhoEver so its their responsibility :)<br>
      <br>
      The problem with a public cloud is that you are never sure where
      your data will end up, hence why there is still a quite large
      space for private clouds.<br>
      <br>
      BillK<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 28/06/13 16:17, Tim Basten wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAHQ_qXZ3dFZBMg9yXFUayCqYpCJ7XCnAxm-9x8m8LUpm828fMw@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <p dir="ltr">Hi Paul,</p>
      <p dir="ltr">Personally, the reason I was look for such a service
        was I am not to comfortable with my data being stored on servers
        that at governed by  foreign laws. I'd prefer to have my data
        within Australia. OwnCloud seems to be one of the better ones.</p>
      <div class="gmail_quote">On 28/06/2013 2:22 PM, "Paul Del" <<a
          moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:p@delfante.it">p@delfante.it</a>>
        wrote:<br type="attribution">
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
          .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
          <div dir="ltr">Hey Michael, Simon and Tim
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>It's very tempting to install my own <a
                moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://owncloud.org"
                target="_blank">owncloud.org</a> server and possibly
              just spin it up in something like Amazon EC2. </div>
            <div>This place <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="https://owncube.com/networkmap-en.php"
                target="_blank">https://owncube.com/networkmap-en.php</a>
              has so many Data centers in EU and World wide.</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>I have used the <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="http://linonde.org" target="_blank">linonde.org</a>
              stuff years ago and It was quite good even then.</div>
            <div>For the moment I'll do some testing with the <a
                moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://owncloud.org"
                target="_blank">owncloud.org</a> service providers.<br>
            </div>
            <div>There's quite a few cheap and free providers on <a
                moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://owncloud.org"
                target="_blank">owncloud.org</a><br>
            </div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>I should of explained myself better. I'm doing a lot of
              sync and backup of document size files too offsite for
              Australian clients and myself. Currently I use services
              like dropbox, crashplan, google docs and secondary layer
              like sugar sync & egnyte</div>
            <div>Services like dropbox and crashplan work so well and is
              a cheap service for the delta copy it provides.</div>
            <div class="gmail_extra">It would be nice to find something
              that works as well as or better in the open source world.</div>
            <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
            </div>
            <div class="gmail_extra">Cheers<br>
              <br>
              <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 8:00 PM,
                <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:plug-request@plug.org.au"
                    target="_blank">plug-request@plug.org.au</a>></span>
                wrote:<br>
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
                  0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">Send
                  plug mailing list submissions to<br>
                          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au" target="_blank">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
                  <br>
                  To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web,
                  visit<br>
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                    href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug"
                    target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug</a><br>
                  or, via email, send a message with subject or body
                  'help' to<br>
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                    href="mailto:plug-request@plug.org.au"
                    target="_blank">plug-request@plug.org.au</a><br>
                  <br>
                  You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
                          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:plug-owner@plug.org.au" target="_blank">plug-owner@plug.org.au</a><br>
                  <br>
                  When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is
                  more specific<br>
                  than "Re: Contents of plug digest..."<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  Today's Topics:<br>
                  <br>
                     1. Re: [plug-ctte] [Committee] Installing linux on
                  Win 8 PC<br>
                        (Paul Del)<br>
                     2. OwnCloud.org (Paul Del)<br>
                     3. Re: [plug-ctte] [Committee] Installing linux on
                  Win 8 PC<br>
                        (Lucas van staden)<br>
                     4. Re: OwnCloud.org (Michael Van Delft)<br>
                     5. Re: [plug-ctte] [Committee] Installing linux on
                  Win 8 PC<br>
                        (Simon Wise)<br>
                     6. Re: OwnCloud.org (Paul Dean)<br>
                     7. Re: OwnCloud.org (Tim Basten)<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
                  <br>
                  Message: 1<br>
                  Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 13:20:11 +0800<br>
                  From: Paul Del <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:p@delfante.it" target="_blank">p@delfante.it</a>><br>
                  To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:chieftiff@gmail.com" target="_blank">chieftiff@gmail.com</a>,
                  PLUG Committee <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:committee@plug.org.au" target="_blank">committee@plug.org.au</a>>,<br>
                          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au" target="_blank">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
                  Subject: Re: [plug] [plug-ctte] [Committee] Installing
                  linux on Win 8<br>
                          PC<br>
                  Message-ID:<br>
                         
                  <CANM56udHp3p0aN7-fgXrjXqhtBwCZP1JwUj7Vxycq_=<a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:joZhG4Q@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">joZhG4Q@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
                  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
                  <br>
                  Hey Fred<br>
                  <br>
                  Please send your emails to the mailing list. Not
                  committee ;-)<br>
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://plug.org.au/resources/mailing-list"
                    target="_blank">http://plug.org.au/resources/mailing-list</a><br>
                  <br>
                  If your wanting to install Linux on a notebook all
                  good.<br>
                  Make sure you include brand/model/type of your
                  notebook<br>
                  <br>
                  There may be a problem with this new secure boot being
                  locked to Ms Windows<br>
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/M/microsoft_secure_boot.html"
                    target="_blank">http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/M/microsoft_secure_boot.html</a><br>
                  <br>
                  There is guys in the group who will know more about
                  that<br>
                  Ciao<br>
                  <br>
                  ><br>
                  ><br>
                  Hi Perth Linux Guru's,<br>
                  Apologies if I am using the wrong forum for this but I
                  have only just<br>
                  discovered your site ;)<br>
                  I have recently bought a Win 8 notebook PC and want to
                  install Linux on it<br>
                  so that i can have the choice of using Windows or
                  Linux as the OS.  I<br>
                  understabd that this is not very straight forward as
                  Win has a security set<br>
                  - up which needs to be turned off and my research on
                  the net has not been<br>
                  conclusive.  I have not used linux yet but would like
                  to. Can you pse<br>
                  advise on this subject?<br>
                  Kind Rgds,<br>
                  Fred<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 12:27 PM, <<a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:chieftiff@gmail.com" target="_blank">chieftiff@gmail.com</a>>
                  wrote:<br>
                  <br>
                  > Fred sent a message using the contact form at<br>
                  > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://www.plug.org.au/contact**"
                    target="_blank">http://www.plug.org.au/contact**</a>.<br>
                  ><br>
                  > Hi Perth Linux Guru's,<br>
                  > Apologies if I am using the wrong forum for this
                  but I have only just<br>
                  > discovered your site ;)<br>
                  > I have recently bought a Win 8 notebook PC and
                  want to install Linux on it<br>
                  > so that i can have the choice of using Windows or
                  Linux as the OS.  I<br>
                  > understabd that this is not very straight forward
                  as Win has a security set<br>
                  > - up which needs to be turned off and my research
                  on the net has not been<br>
                  > conclusive.  I have not used linux yet but would
                  like to. Can you pse<br>
                  > advise on this subject?<br>
                  > Kind Rgds,<br>
                  > Fred<br>
                  > ______________________________**_________________<br>
                  > committee mailing list<br>
                  > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:committee@plug.org.au" target="_blank">committee@plug.org.au</a><br>
                  > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://lists.plug.org.au/**mailman/listinfo/committee"
                    target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/**mailman/listinfo/committee</a><<a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/committee"
                    target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/committee</a>><br>
                  ><br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  --<br>
                  *Simplifying Information Technology Systems.*<br>
                  <br>
                  Creating reliable Information Systems.<br>
                  Using cutting edge Information Technology.<br>
                  <br>
                  Computer Help Desk IT Support Phone: <a
                    moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2808%29636-55618"
                    value="+61863655618" target="_blank">(08)636-55618</a><br>
                  Websites CMS Cloud Inquiries Phone: <a
                    moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2808%29636-55619"
                    value="+61863655619" target="_blank">(08)636-55619</a><br>
                  <br>
                  Help Desk or IT request<br>
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://bit.ly/deltekhelpdesk" target="_blank">http://bit.ly/deltekhelpdesk</a><br>
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                  <br>
                  ------------------------------<br>
                  <br>
                  Message: 2<br>
                  Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 13:39:21 +0800<br>
                  From: Paul Del <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:p@delfante.it" target="_blank">p@delfante.it</a>><br>
                  To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au" target="_blank">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
                  Subject: [plug] OwnCloud.org<br>
                  Message-ID:<br>
                          <CANM56ueSxtCv_5RcpocxMSE5X2ydJb5LmKGhA2H=<a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:H2JFxbn7vg@mail.gmail.com"
                    target="_blank">H2JFxbn7vg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
                  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
                  <br>
                  Hey<br>
                  <br>
                  Has any one used Owncloud.org?<br>
                  Any thoughts<br>
                  Or other recommendations of similar<br>
                  <br>
                  It's supposed to be more open cloud services<br>
                  <br>
                  Cheers Paul<br>
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                  <br>
                  ------------------------------<br>
                  <br>
                  Message: 3<br>
                  Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:12:47 +0800<br>
                  From: Lucas van staden <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:lvs@dedmeet.com" target="_blank">lvs@dedmeet.com</a>><br>
                  To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au" target="_blank">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
                  Subject: Re: [plug] [plug-ctte] [Committee] Installing
                  linux on Win 8<br>
                          PC<br>
                  Message-ID:<br>
                          <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:CAO0xyVOWORi0YHWn-ezJcQrWhDPgJHR-hzUXUiushYAE9cN63Q@mail.gmail.com"
                    target="_blank">CAO0xyVOWORi0YHWn-ezJcQrWhDPgJHR-hzUXUiushYAE9cN63Q@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
                  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
                  <br>
                  Hey Fred,<br>
                  <br>
                  You can download one of the popular Linux Distro's,
                  boot of the cd/dvd and<br>
                  just follow the install procedure.<br>
                  Most modern linux install processes will deal with the
                  windows partition,<br>
                  and allow you to dual boot. (and set that up for you)<br>
                  <br>
                  Not had any experience with Win 8 yet (don't think I
                  will), thus I cannot<br>
                  say 100% if dual boot setup works with it out-the-box
                  like that, or if you<br>
                  need to do 'stuff' to make it work.<br>
                  <br>
                  As a first time linux user, I would highly recommend
                  Linux Mint as your<br>
                  first step. From experience I had found that windows
                  users find it easy to<br>
                  adapt to that distro.<br>
                  <br>
                  ref: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://www.linuxmint.com/" target="_blank">http://www.linuxmint.com/</a><br>
                  <br>
                  Welcome to Linux.<br>
                  <br>
                  -Lucas<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Paul Del <<a
                    moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:p@delfante.it"
                    target="_blank">p@delfante.it</a>> wrote:<br>
                  <br>
                  > Hey Fred<br>
                  ><br>
                  > Please send your emails to the mailing list. Not
                  committee ;-)<br>
                  > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://plug.org.au/resources/mailing-list"
                    target="_blank">http://plug.org.au/resources/mailing-list</a><br>
                  ><br>
                  > If your wanting to install Linux on a notebook
                  all good.<br>
                  > Make sure you include brand/model/type of your
                  notebook<br>
                  ><br>
                  > There may be a problem with this new secure boot
                  being locked to Ms Windows<br>
                  > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/M/microsoft_secure_boot.html"
                    target="_blank">http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/M/microsoft_secure_boot.html</a><br>
                  ><br>
                  > There is guys in the group who will know more
                  about that<br>
                  > Ciao<br>
                  ><br>
                  > ><br>
                  > ><br>
                  > Hi Perth Linux Guru's,<br>
                  > Apologies if I am using the wrong forum for this
                  but I have only just<br>
                  > discovered your site ;)<br>
                  > I have recently bought a Win 8 notebook PC and
                  want to install Linux on it<br>
                  > so that i can have the choice of using Windows or
                  Linux as the OS.  I<br>
                  > understabd that this is not very straight forward
                  as Win has a security set<br>
                  > - up which needs to be turned off and my research
                  on the net has not been<br>
                  > conclusive.  I have not used linux yet but would
                  like to. Can you pse<br>
                  > advise on this subject?<br>
                  > Kind Rgds,<br>
                  > Fred<br>
                  ><br>
                  ><br>
                  ><br>
                  ><br>
                  > On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 12:27 PM, <<a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:chieftiff@gmail.com" target="_blank">chieftiff@gmail.com</a>>
                  wrote:<br>
                  ><br>
                  >> Fred sent a message using the contact form at<br>
                  >> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://www.plug.org.au/contact**"
                    target="_blank">http://www.plug.org.au/contact**</a>.<br>
                  >><br>
                  >> Hi Perth Linux Guru's,<br>
                  >> Apologies if I am using the wrong forum for
                  this but I have only just<br>
                  >> discovered your site ;)<br>
                  >> I have recently bought a Win 8 notebook PC
                  and want to install Linux on<br>
                  >> it so that i can have the choice of using
                  Windows or Linux as the OS.  I<br>
                  >> understabd that this is not very straight
                  forward as Win has a security set<br>
                  >> - up which needs to be turned off and my
                  research on the net has not been<br>
                  >> conclusive.  I have not used linux yet but
                  would like to. Can you pse<br>
                  >> advise on this subject?<br>
                  >> Kind Rgds,<br>
                  >> Fred<br>
                  >>
                  ______________________________**_________________<br>
                  >> committee mailing list<br>
                  >> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:committee@plug.org.au" target="_blank">committee@plug.org.au</a><br>
                  >> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://lists.plug.org.au/**mailman/listinfo/committee"
                    target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/**mailman/listinfo/committee</a><<a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/committee"
                    target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/committee</a>><br>
                  >><br>
                  ><br>
                  ><br>
                  ><br>
                  > --<br>
                  > *Simplifying Information Technology Systems.*<br>
                  ><br>
                  > Creating reliable Information Systems.<br>
                  > Using cutting edge Information Technology.<br>
                  ><br>
                  > Computer Help Desk IT Support Phone: <a
                    moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2808%29636-55618"
                    value="+61863655618" target="_blank">(08)636-55618</a><br>
                  > Websites CMS Cloud Inquiries Phone: <a
                    moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2808%29636-55619"
                    value="+61863655619" target="_blank">(08)636-55619</a><br>
                  ><br>
                  > Help Desk or IT request<br>
                  > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://bit.ly/deltekhelpdesk" target="_blank">http://bit.ly/deltekhelpdesk</a><br>
                  ><br>
                  > _______________________________________________<br>
                  > PLUG discussion list: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au" target="_blank">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
                  > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug"
                    target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug</a><br>
                  > Committee e-mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:committee@plug.org.au" target="_blank">committee@plug.org.au</a><br>
                  > PLUG Membership: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://www.plug.org.au/membership"
                    target="_blank">http://www.plug.org.au/membership</a><br>
                  ><br>
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                  <br>
                  ------------------------------<br>
                  <br>
                  Message: 4<br>
                  Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:21:42 +0800<br>
                  From: Michael Van Delft <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:michael@hybr.id.au" target="_blank">michael@hybr.id.au</a>><br>
                  To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au" target="_blank">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
                  Subject: Re: [plug] OwnCloud.org<br>
                  Message-ID:<br>
                          <CAJ0HW+fibCw=xG=eNX894=X75=<a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:HBcFT0hRqu2qtrtDAs6WpsDg@mail.gmail.com"
                    target="_blank">HBcFT0hRqu2qtrtDAs6WpsDg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
                  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8<br>
                  <br>
                  Hey Paul,<br>
                  <br>
                  I've setup a cheap VPS from linode running ownCloud
                  and used the<br>
                  desktop client to sync files. I feel like it's 90%
                  there but just<br>
                  needs a bit more polish before it becomes good enough
                  that I'd move<br>
                  all my stuff from Google Drive/Contacts/Calendar/Mail
                  (There is a<br>
                  Roundcube plugin for mail)/Bookmarks. I've found it to
                  be a little<br>
                  slow but that could be because I'm hosting it on the
                  cheapest linode<br>
                  server I could find it's got 512mb RAM and hosted in
                  Singapore. Might<br>
                  be a lot quicker hosted on a beefier machine at home.<br>
                  <br>
                  I've got it running at <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="https://hybr.id.au" target="_blank">https://hybr.id.au</a>
                  if you want to try it out I<br>
                  can set up an account for you. (I use a certificate
                  from <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://cacert.org" target="_blank">cacert.org</a>
                  so<br>
                  if you get a certificate warning don't worry.)<br>
                  <br>
                  I'd also be very interested to hear about any open
                  source self hosted<br>
                  cloud solutions especially if anyone knows of a self
                  hosted office<br>
                  suite like Google Docs.<br>
                  <br>
                  Cheers,<br>
                  Michael<br>
                  <br>
                  On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Paul Del <<a
                    moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:p@delfante.it"
                    target="_blank">p@delfante.it</a>> wrote:<br>
                  > Hey<br>
                  ><br>
                  > Has any one used Owncloud.org?<br>
                  > Any thoughts<br>
                  > Or other recommendations of similar<br>
                  ><br>
                  > It's supposed to be more open cloud services<br>
                  ><br>
                  > Cheers Paul<br>
                  ><br>
                  > _______________________________________________<br>
                  > PLUG discussion list: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au" target="_blank">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
                  > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug"
                    target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug</a><br>
                  > Committee e-mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:committee@plug.org.au" target="_blank">committee@plug.org.au</a><br>
                  > PLUG Membership: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://www.plug.org.au/membership"
                    target="_blank">http://www.plug.org.au/membership</a><br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  ------------------------------<br>
                  <br>
                  Message: 5<br>
                  Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 17:54:55 +0800<br>
                  From: Simon Wise <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:simonzwise@gmail.com" target="_blank">simonzwise@gmail.com</a>><br>
                  To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au" target="_blank">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
                  Subject: Re: [plug] [plug-ctte] [Committee] Installing
                  linux on Win 8<br>
                          PC<br>
                  Message-ID: <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:51CC0BEF.2050107@gmail.com"
                    target="_blank">51CC0BEF.2050107@gmail.com</a>><br>
                  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
                  format=flowed<br>
                  <br>
                  On 27/06/13 14:12, Lucas van staden wrote:<br>
                  > Hey Fred,<br>
                  ><br>
                  > You can download one of the popular Linux
                  Distro's, boot of the cd/dvd and<br>
                  > just follow the install procedure.<br>
                  > Most modern linux install processes will deal
                  with the windows partition,<br>
                  > and allow you to dual boot. (and set that up for
                  you)<br>
                  ><br>
                  > Not had any experience with Win 8 yet (don't
                  think I will), thus I cannot<br>
                  > say 100% if dual boot setup works with it
                  out-the-box like that, or if you<br>
                  > need to do 'stuff' to make it work.<br>
                  ><br>
                  > As a first time linux user, I would highly
                  recommend Linux Mint as your<br>
                  > first step. From experience I had found that
                  windows users find it easy to<br>
                  > adapt to that distro.<br>
                  ><br>
                  > ref: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://www.linuxmint.com/" target="_blank">http://www.linuxmint.com/</a><br>
                  ><br>
                  > Welcome to Linux.<br>
                  <br>
                  Depending on the tablet the secure boot stuff could be
                  either a pain, or will<br>
                  prevent you using Linux (or anything much else) on
                  that device completely. I<br>
                  can't confirm this myself, I have no such device, but
                  when Win 8 was released<br>
                  this was the situation ...<br>
                  <br>
                  If you bought one of the smaller ARM based ones then I
                  believe it is permanently<br>
                  hardware locked to prevent anything except updates
                  approved and signed by<br>
                  Microsoft for your (sic) particular device and the
                  binaries that the (signed by<br>
                  Microsoft and unmodified or else it will not be
                  boot-able) Win 8 OS permits you<br>
                  to run because they are signed by Microsoft and
                  unmodified (i.e. you paid for<br>
                  them via the official app store or whatever it is
                  called in Microsoft land). In<br>
                  which case the "Welcome to Linux" may unfortunately be
                  a little premature, and<br>
                  if you do insist on booting Linux then eBay will be
                  your friend.<br>
                  <br>
                  If you bought an intel based tablet it is apparently
                  possible to turn off the<br>
                  hardware lock, or at least switch the signing
                  authority or something ... an open<br>
                  source organisation has paid (on your behalf, aren't
                  you lucky) the secure boot<br>
                  makers for appropriate codes etc to sign Linux boot
                  systems, and boot disks are<br>
                  I believe able to use this to boot into Linux. One
                  laptop manufacturer and their<br>
                  customers still got badly stung by this, since there
                  was a bug in the secure<br>
                  boot system which completely bricked the laptop if you
                  used this system ... it<br>
                  required a return to the manufacturer before it would
                  do anything at all. The<br>
                  permanent locking to Microsoft exclusively is required
                  by Microsoft before they<br>
                  will certify an ARM device for Windows 8, the
                  removable lock is required for<br>
                  certification for an intel device. Google will be your
                  friend in this case, and<br>
                  the solution less drastic than sell it and buy
                  something better. I haven't<br>
                  tried, I haven't bought (if you can call it that ...
                  not sure who actually<br>
                  'owns' it given the above) a Microsoft tablet.<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  Simon<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  ------------------------------<br>
                  <br>
                  Message: 6<br>
                  Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 19:10:32 +0800<br>
                  From: Paul Dean <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:paul@thecave.ws" target="_blank">paul@thecave.ws</a>><br>
                  To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au" target="_blank">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
                  Subject: Re: [plug] OwnCloud.org<br>
                  Message-ID: <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:20130627191032.1623cf9b@slab3.inthecave.ws"
                    target="_blank">20130627191032.1623cf9b@slab3.inthecave.ws</a>><br>
                  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
                  <br>
                  Hi Michael,<br>
                  <br>
                  What version of ownCloud are you running?<br>
                  <br>
                  I've been watching this over the past few years, and
                  slowly as it matures, v5.0 looked it had reached a
                  reasonable maturity level.<br>
                  <br>
                  Would love to hear more of ppls opinions about it.<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  --<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  Thanks<br>
                  <br>
                  Paul Dean.<br>
                  <br>
                  "Life is not WHAT you make it, it's WHO you have in
                  it..."<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:21:42 +0800<br>
                  Michael Van Delft <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:michael@hybr.id.au" target="_blank">michael@hybr.id.au</a>>
                  wrote:<br>
                  <br>
                  >Hey Paul,<br>
                  ><br>
                  >I've setup a cheap VPS from linode running
                  ownCloud and used the<br>
                  >desktop client to sync files. I feel like it's 90%
                  there but just<br>
                  >needs a bit more polish before it becomes good
                  enough that I'd move<br>
                  >all my stuff from Google
                  Drive/Contacts/Calendar/Mail (There is a<br>
                  >Roundcube plugin for mail)/Bookmarks. I've found
                  it to be a little<br>
                  >slow but that could be because I'm hosting it on
                  the cheapest linode<br>
                  >server I could find it's got 512mb RAM and hosted
                  in Singapore. Might<br>
                  >be a lot quicker hosted on a beefier machine at
                  home.<br>
                  ><br>
                  >I've got it running at <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="https://hybr.id.au" target="_blank">https://hybr.id.au</a>
                  if you want to try it out I<br>
                  >can set up an account for you. (I use a
                  certificate from <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://cacert.org" target="_blank">cacert.org</a>
                  so<br>
                  >if you get a certificate warning don't worry.)<br>
                  ><br>
                  >I'd also be very interested to hear about any open
                  source self hosted<br>
                  >cloud solutions especially if anyone knows of a
                  self hosted office<br>
                  >suite like Google Docs.<br>
                  ><br>
                  >Cheers,<br>
                  >Michael<br>
                  ><br>
                  >On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Paul Del <<a
                    moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:p@delfante.it"
                    target="_blank">p@delfante.it</a>> wrote:<br>
                  >> Hey<br>
                  >><br>
                  >> Has any one used Owncloud.org?<br>
                  >> Any thoughts<br>
                  >> Or other recommendations of similar<br>
                  >><br>
                  >> It's supposed to be more open cloud services<br>
                  >><br>
                  >> Cheers Paul<br>
                  >><br>
                  >>
                  _______________________________________________<br>
                  >> PLUG discussion list: <a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au" target="_blank">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
                  >> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug"
                    target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug</a><br>
                  >> Committee e-mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:committee@plug.org.au" target="_blank">committee@plug.org.au</a><br>
                  >> PLUG Membership: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://www.plug.org.au/membership"
                    target="_blank">http://www.plug.org.au/membership</a><br>
                  >_______________________________________________<br>
                  >PLUG discussion list: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au" target="_blank">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
                  ><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug"
                    target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug</a><br>
                  >Committee e-mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:committee@plug.org.au" target="_blank">committee@plug.org.au</a><br>
                  >PLUG Membership: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://www.plug.org.au/membership"
                    target="_blank">http://www.plug.org.au/membership</a><br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  --<br>
                  <br>
                  Thanks<br>
                  <br>
                  Paul Dean.<br>
                  <br>
                  "Life is not WHAT you make it, it's WHO you have in
                  it..."<br>
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                  <br>
                  ------------------------------<br>
                  <br>
                  Message: 7<br>
                  Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 19:40:44 +0800<br>
                  From: Tim Basten <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:tbasten@gmail.com" target="_blank">tbasten@gmail.com</a>><br>
                  To: "<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au" target="_blank">plug@plug.org.au</a>"
                  <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au" target="_blank">plug@plug.org.au</a>><br>
                  Subject: Re: [plug] OwnCloud.org<br>
                  Message-ID: <-382283334138592506@unknownmsgid><br>
                  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
                  <br>
                  Hi Paul,<br>
                  <br>
                  I jus installed the latest version on the weekend.
                  Without having<br>
                  spent to much time on it, I have picked up a few
                  things which are more<br>
                  of an annoyance then an issue. One of the, being that
                  only allows for<br>
                  vCard formats for importing contacts. Wile there are
                  ways to get most<br>
                  contacts to a vCard, having an option to import from
                  other format<br>
                  types out be better. The other one is the android app
                  is only for file<br>
                  sharing (from what I can tell). If you want to sync
                  your contacts onto<br>
                  your phone, you need to download another app on your
                  android that<br>
                  syncs vCards. Other then those things the layout of
                  the website is<br>
                  really nice, it was really easy to setup and the
                  chrome bookmarks<br>
                  extension work much better then delicious.<br>
                  <br>
                  I haven't been fully converted yet so at this stage I
                  am still using<br>
                  Dropbox and gmail for my contacts.<br>
                  <br>
                  Thanks<br>
                  Tim<br>
                  <br>
                  On 27/06/2013, at 7:11 PM, Paul Dean <<a
                    moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:paul@thecave.ws"
                    target="_blank">paul@thecave.ws</a>> wrote:<br>
                  <br>
                  > Hi Michael,<br>
                  ><br>
                  > What version of ownCloud are you running?<br>
                  ><br>
                  > I've been watching this over the past few years,
                  and slowly as it matures, v5.0 looked it had reached a
                  reasonable maturity level.<br>
                  ><br>
                  > Would love to hear more of ppls opinions about
                  it.<br>
                  ><br>
                  ><br>
                  > --<br>
                  ><br>
                  ><br>
                  > Thanks<br>
                  ><br>
                  > Paul Dean.<br>
                  ><br>
                  > "Life is not WHAT you make it, it's WHO you have
                  in it..."<br>
                  ><br>
                  ><br>
                  > On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:21:42 +0800<br>
                  > Michael Van Delft <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:michael@hybr.id.au" target="_blank">michael@hybr.id.au</a>>
                  wrote:<br>
                  ><br>
                  >> Hey Paul,<br>
                  >><br>
                  >> I've setup a cheap VPS from linode running
                  ownCloud and used the<br>
                  >> desktop client to sync files. I feel like
                  it's 90% there but just<br>
                  >> needs a bit more polish before it becomes
                  good enough that I'd move<br>
                  >> all my stuff from Google
                  Drive/Contacts/Calendar/Mail (There is a<br>
                  >> Roundcube plugin for mail)/Bookmarks. I've
                  found it to be a little<br>
                  >> slow but that could be because I'm hosting it
                  on the cheapest linode<br>
                  >> server I could find it's got 512mb RAM and
                  hosted in Singapore. Might<br>
                  >> be a lot quicker hosted on a beefier machine
                  at home.<br>
                  >><br>
                  >> I've got it running at <a
                    moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://hybr.id.au"
                    target="_blank">https://hybr.id.au</a> if you want
                  to try it out I<br>
                  >> can set up an account for you. (I use a
                  certificate from <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://cacert.org" target="_blank">cacert.org</a>
                  so<br>
                  >> if you get a certificate warning don't
                  worry.)<br>
                  >><br>
                  >> I'd also be very interested to hear about any
                  open source self hosted<br>
                  >> cloud solutions especially if anyone knows of
                  a self hosted office<br>
                  >> suite like Google Docs.<br>
                  >><br>
                  >> Cheers,<br>
                  >> Michael<br>
                  >><br>
                  >> On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Paul Del
                  <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:p@delfante.it" target="_blank">p@delfante.it</a>>
                  wrote:<br>
                  >>> Hey<br>
                  >>><br>
                  >>> Has any one used Owncloud.org?<br>
                  >>> Any thoughts<br>
                  >>> Or other recommendations of similar<br>
                  >>><br>
                  >>> It's supposed to be more open cloud
                  services<br>
                  >>><br>
                  >>> Cheers Paul<br>
                  >>><br>
                  >>>
                  _______________________________________________<br>
                  >>> PLUG discussion list: <a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au" target="_blank">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
                  >>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug"
                    target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug</a><br>
                  >>> Committee e-mail: <a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:committee@plug.org.au" target="_blank">committee@plug.org.au</a><br>
                  >>> PLUG Membership: <a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://www.plug.org.au/membership"
                    target="_blank">http://www.plug.org.au/membership</a><br>
                  >>
                  _______________________________________________<br>
                  >> PLUG discussion list: <a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au" target="_blank">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
                  >> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug"
                    target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug</a><br>
                  >> Committee e-mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:committee@plug.org.au" target="_blank">committee@plug.org.au</a><br>
                  >> PLUG Membership: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://www.plug.org.au/membership"
                    target="_blank">http://www.plug.org.au/membership</a><br>
                  ><br>
                  ><br>
                  > --<br>
                  ><br>
                  > Thanks<br>
                  ><br>
                  > Paul Dean.<br>
                  ><br>
                  > "Life is not WHAT you make it, it's WHO you have
                  in it..."<br>
                  > _______________________________________________<br>
                  > PLUG discussion list: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au" target="_blank">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
                  > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug"
                    target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug</a><br>
                  > Committee e-mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:committee@plug.org.au" target="_blank">committee@plug.org.au</a><br>
                  > PLUG Membership: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://www.plug.org.au/membership"
                    target="_blank">http://www.plug.org.au/membership</a><br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  ------------------------------<br>
                  <br>
                  Subject: Digest Footer<br>
                  <br>
                  _______________________________________________<br>
                  PLUG discussion list: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au" target="_blank">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug"
                    target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug</a><br>
                  Committee e-mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:committee@plug.linux.org.au"
                    target="_blank">committee@plug.linux.org.au</a><br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  ------------------------------<br>
                  <br>
                  End of plug Digest, Vol 109, Issue 17<br>
                  *************************************<br>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
              <br>
              <br clear="all">
              <div><br>
              </div>
              -- <br>
              <div dir="ltr"><b>Simplifying Information Technology
                  Systems.</b><br>
                <br>
                Creating reliable Information Systems.<br>
                Using cutting edge Information Technology.<br>
                <br>
                Computer Help Desk IT Support Phone: <a
                  moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2808%29636-55618"
                  value="+61863655618" target="_blank">(08)636-55618</a><br>
                Websites CMS Cloud Inquiries Phone: <a
                  moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2808%29636-55619"
                  value="+61863655619" target="_blank">(08)636-55619</a><br>
                <br>
                <span style="color:rgb(11,83,148)">Help Desk or IT
                  request</span><br>
                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="http://bit.ly/deltekhelpdesk" target="_blank">http://bit.ly/deltekhelpdesk</a><br>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
          <br>
          _______________________________________________<br>
          PLUG discussion list: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug"
            target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug</a><br>
          Committee e-mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:committee@plug.org.au">committee@plug.org.au</a><br>
          PLUG Membership: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="http://www.plug.org.au/membership" target="_blank">http://www.plug.org.au/membership</a><br>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
      <br>
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      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
PLUG discussion list: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug</a>
Committee e-mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:committee@plug.org.au">committee@plug.org.au</a>
PLUG Membership: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.plug.org.au/membership">http://www.plug.org.au/membership</a></pre>
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