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<div align="left"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style=" font-size:10pt">Kev,</span></font></div>
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<div align="left"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style=" font-size:10pt">Fine.</span></font></div>
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<div align="left"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style=" font-size:10pt">See ya.</span></font></div>
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<div align="left"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style=" font-size:10pt">wayne</span></font></div>
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<div align="left"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style=" font-size:10pt">On 21 Mar 2014 at 21:23, Kevin Shackleton wrote:</span></font></div>
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<div align="left"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style=" font-size:10pt">Hi Wayne,<br />
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<div align="left"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style=" font-size:10pt">I well understand the generalised statements that your making. I'm not offended at all, and I
don't want to get into a slanging match, but really you have failed to demonstrate what's
different between a PC that a student is leasing through the school, which started out with a
standard image, and a privately owned PC. Either of them can soon be loaded up with
cracking tools, either can be used to try code injection in web pages or SQL etc.<br />
<br />
</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style=" font-size:10pt">I have been involved in school networks and security, but not in the last 5 years or so.
<br />
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</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style=" font-size:10pt">Yesterday I was speaking with a guy at Shenton College. He says they do everything
through their intranet - file upload & download as well as intensively using Moodle etc for
student organisation. They have achieved device independence. I suspect that there will be
security gaps found but I doubt that the hardware used in finding the gaps would be a
significant factor.<br />
<br />
</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style=" font-size:10pt">My original email was aimed at finding specific problems found at schools. I know there
were issues with Mac networking prior to OSX, but that's all gone. There are problems with
Surface devices and wireless, but pads are not encouraged at schools.<br />
<br />
</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style=" font-size:10pt">Thanks,<br />
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<div align="left"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style=" font-size:10pt">Kevin.</span></font></div>
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<div align="left"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style=" font-size:10pt">On 21 March 2014 17:22, </span><span style=" font-size:10pt"><</span></font>
<a href="mailto:hatari@iinet.net.au"><font face="Arial" color="#0000ff" size="2"><span style=" font-size:10pt"><u>hatari@iinet.net.au</u></span></font></a>
<font face="Arial" size="2"><span style=" font-size:10pt"> ></span><span style=" font-size:10pt"> wrote:</span></font></div>
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<span style=" font-size:12pt">OK, Kevin; I thought towards the end of my email I did imply</span></font><font face="Times New Roman" color="#002040" size="2">
<span style=" font-size:10pt"> </span></font><font face="Times New Roman" color="#002040"><span style=" font-size:12pt"><i>critical aspects</i></span></font>
<font face="Times New Roman" color="#002040" size="2"><span style=" font-size:10pt">
</span></font><font face="Times New Roman" color="#002040"><span style=" font-size:12pt">about any computer "system" (as for a school). Here, again, are the critical
aspects that I believe are important from the "computer system" point of view:</span></font><font face="Times New Roman" color="#002040" size="2">
<span style=" font-size:10pt">
</span></font><font face="Times New Roman" color="#002040"><span style=" font-size:12pt"><i>'...standardized, regulated, accessible and available...'</i></span>
<span style=" font-size:12pt">.</span></font></div>
<ul style="margin-top: 0mm; margin-bottom: 0mm; list-style-type: disc; ">
<li style="margin-left: 23pt; margin-right: 0pt; padding-left: 0pt; font-family: Symbol; color: #010101; ">
<div align="justify"><font face="Times New Roman" color="#002040"><span style=" font-size:12pt; font-family:Times New Roman; color:#002040; font-weight:Normal; font-style:Normal; font-decoration:Normal">"Standardized" means that it is kept to some uniform level that can be
easily managed (yet functional and worthwhile for everyone);</span></font></div>
</li>
<li style="margin-left: 23pt; margin-right: 0pt; padding-left: 0pt; font-family: Symbol; color: #010101; ">
<div align="justify"><font face="Times New Roman" color="#002040"><span style=" font-size:12pt; font-family:Times New Roman; color:#002040; font-weight:Normal; font-style:Normal; font-decoration:Normal">"Regulated" means that it is under control - control which is important to
keep it operating (both in the "managed" sense, and in a sense of
"fairness");</span></font></div>
</li>
<li style="margin-left: 23pt; margin-right: 0pt; padding-left: 0pt; font-family: Symbol; color: #010101; ">
<div align="justify"><font face="Times New Roman" color="#002040"><span style=" font-size:12pt; font-family:Times New Roman; color:#002040; font-weight:Normal; font-style:Normal; font-decoration:Normal">"Accessible" means that anyone (who is authorized) has capacity to use it
(as deemed appropriate);</span></font></div>
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<li style="margin-left: 23pt; margin-right: 0pt; padding-left: 0pt; font-family: Symbol; color: #010101; ">
<div align="justify"><font face="Times New Roman" color="#002040"><span style=" font-size:12pt; font-family:Times New Roman; color:#002040; font-weight:Normal; font-style:Normal; font-decoration:Normal">"Available" means that the whole system is kept operational for everyone
(as best as can be maintained - given external parameters imposed by
"higher" authority, capacity, funds and so forth).</span></font></div>
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<span style=" font-size:12pt">Those were some aspects that I quickly put forward for you at the time, but I
am sure there are possibly more.</span></font></div>
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<span style=" font-size:12pt">If, at the end of your email you meant</span></font><font face="Times New Roman" color="#002040" size="2">
<span style=" font-size:10pt"> </span></font><font face="Times New Roman" color="#002040"><span style=" font-size:12pt"><i>"...(BUT) what is the difference between
their PC's?"</i></span></font><font face="Times New Roman" color="#002040" size="2"><span style=" font-size:10pt"> </span></font>
<font face="Times New Roman" color="#002040"><span style=" font-size:12pt">then it is probably to do with the "regulated" part - and that's to do
with "control" (as I mentioned above). That's why I said that a thumbdrive is
possibly a good "middle pathway". It also fulfills the other aspects mentioned -
standardized, accessible, available.</span></font></div>
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<span style=" font-size:12pt">I can only say to you that if you have never looked after a (</span></font><font face="Arial" size="2">
<span style=" font-size:10pt"> </span></font><font face="Times New Roman" color="#002040" size="2"><span style=" font-size:10pt">school</span></font>
<font face="Times New Roman" color="#002040"><span style=" font-size:12pt">) computer
system then you don't know the capacity for (</span></font><font face="Times New Roman" color="#002040" size="2"><span style=" font-size:10pt">kids</span></font>
<font face="Arial" size="2"><span style=" font-size:10pt"> </span></font><font face="Times New Roman" color="#002040"><span style=" font-size:12pt">) people to - either
accidentally or</span></font><font face="Times New Roman" color="#002040" size="2"><span style=" font-size:10pt"> </span></font><font face="Times New Roman" color="#002040">
<span style=" font-size:12pt"><i>deliberately</i></span></font><font face="Times New Roman" color="#002040" size="2"><span style=" font-size:10pt"> </span></font>
<font face="Times New Roman" color="#002040"><span style=" font-size:12pt">bypass, alter, corrupt, or destroy it (for others). [I
can give examples of all those too!]</span></font></div>
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<span style=" font-size:12pt">Kevin, this is not meant to be any attack on your opinion or that of child's
ability but was more to do with sharing knowledge about maintaining a
computer system, that is to say, keeping it up and running in the face of
extraordinary behaviours - and why someone might want to restrict your access.
Yes; it may also demonstrate "parochial" behaviour by me but I assure you that
it comes from various and numerous (unpleasant) experiences.</span></font></div>
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<span style=" font-size:12pt">Hope that helps.</span></font></div>
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<span style=" font-size:12pt">wayne</span></font></div>
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<span style=" font-size:10pt">On 16 Mar 2014 at 6:33, Kevin Shackleton wrote:</span></font></div>
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<span style=" font-size:10pt">Interesting viewpoint thanks Wayne.<br />
It's not clear to me what the critical factors were in your example.<br />
In the situation I am dealing with, the students have their own leased pc via the school
which is given access, or they have their own pc they self-sourced which is not given
access. While there are going to be extreme examples of students in any environment,
what's the difference in their pcs?<br />
Kevin</span></font></p>
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<span style=" font-size:10pt">On 15/03/2014 7:56 PM, <</span></font><a href="mailto:hatari@iinet.net.au"><font face="Arial" color="#0000ff" size="2">
<span style=" font-size:10pt"><u>hatari@iinet.net.au</u></span></font></a><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style=" font-size:10pt">> wrote:</span></font></div>
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<span style=" font-size:10pt">Greetings,</span></font></div>
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<span style=" font-size:10pt">I used to run the IT system (Apple) for a School. We had some "hacking" trouble.</span></font></div>
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<span style=" font-size:10pt">(At least) one Student had significant experience in the system - far more than me. On
one occasion he was nearly caught red-handed "hacking" in the classroom - so he
dropped (threw) his CD holder out the open window nearby. There were about 100
disks of all sorts. They were found by a Passer-by before the Student could retrieve
them - and they were handed-in to me.</span></font></div>
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<span style=" font-size:10pt">The little brat had every hacking tool under the sun in there, and other programs as
well. All were copied discs.</span></font></div>
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<span style=" font-size:10pt">As an IT manager I wouldn't want such little brats anywhere near the system. You may
be happy to accept "anything goes" on a system meant to be standardized, regulated,
accessible and available to all, but not me.</span></font></div>
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<span style=" font-size:10pt">Let them use a thumbdrive or other setup to pick-up/post their homework. Easy-peazy!</span></font></div>
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<span style=" font-size:10pt">Sorry for this "other" opinion.</span></font></div>
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<span style=" font-size:10pt">wayne</span></font></div>
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<span style=" font-size:10pt">On 11 Mar 2014 at 18:21, Kevin Shackleton wrote:</span></font></div>
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<span style=" font-size:10pt">Greetings,<br />
<br />
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<span style=" font-size:10pt">I have a situation where my daughter is attending a leading independent government
school and because she is using her own UNIX (ok, it's a Mac) PC instead of leasing
one through the school, the school won't give her a logon for the shared drives. These
drives are used to pick up and drop off school work.<br />
<br />
</span></font></div>
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<span style=" font-size:10pt">The school's original position was "the Department policy prevents . .".<br />
<br />
I contacted the Department of Education and received:<br />
<br />
"The development and implementation of SOE version 4.2 in schools has enabled
local decisions to be made regarding which of these online services are made
available to staff and students. This strategy directly supports the philosophy of
Independent Public Schools and ensures that Western Australian public schools can
be individual, distinctive and responsive to their local communities while still benefiting
from being part of a system."<br />
<br />
</span></font></div>
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<span style=" font-size:10pt">I wonder if anyone is working in a position where they might cast light on why school
IT managers are so parochial in the 21st century? What is it they fear?<br />
<br />
Thanks<br />
<br />
Kevin.</span></font></div>
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