<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div><span></span></div><div><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><i style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">I hope you are all ready with VPN in place, if not do it it now. Private Internet Access is good, and relatively easy to setup. I have been using ivpn for over 12 months, but your call.<br><br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://pirateparty.org.au/dataretention/">https://pirateparty.org.au/dataretention/</a> gives information on other measures you need to investigate.<br><br>Now you may think you have nothing to keep secret or out of prying eyes and not worry about meta data retention. But visit the government site and see the list of who can access your data to find out what you are doing, who you are talking to, and the date and time and route of every communication. <br></i><div><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature">A friend has suggested the above: Use VPN and encrypted emails with pgp and a good private chat facility, as well as voip, or video, is qtox for Linux and all,systems which gives a id code and a a qcode scanned ID too. </div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On 12 Oct 2015, at 9:25 PM, Gareth James <<a href="mailto:garethjames87@gmail.com">garethjames87@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><p dir="ltr">I think governments have key escrow agreements with most big software vendors like Whatsapp.</p>
<p dir="ltr">ASIO/AFP would just need to liaise with NSA to get access.</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 12 Oct 2015 7:49 pm, <<a href="mailto:plug-request@plug.org.au">plug-request@plug.org.au</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send plug mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Mandatory data retention (Luke John)<br>
2. Re: Mandatory data retention (Nicholas Lloyd - HESWA)<br>
3. Re: Mandatory data retention (Marcos Ra?l Carot)<br>
4. Re: Mandatory data retention (Marcos Ra?l Carot)<br>
5. Re: Mandatory data retention (Hani Jabr)<br>
6. Re: Mandatory data retention (Nicholas Lloyd - HESWA)<br>
7. Re: Mandatory data retention (Euan)<br>
8. Re: Mandatory data retention (Marcos Ra?l Carot)<br>
9. Re: Mandatory data retention (Michael Van Delft)<br>
10. Re: Mandatory data retention (Jim Householder)<br>
11. Re: Mandatory data retention (Luke Woollard)<br>
12. Re: Mandatory data retention (Euan)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:52:24 +0800<br>
From: Luke John <<a href="mailto:email@lukejohn.me">email@lukejohn.me</a>><br>
To: "<a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a>" <<a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a>><br>
Subject: [plug] Mandatory data retention<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAO=<a href="mailto:q8tNvU_uA4p9TXKeNw1OdoQCQN4usBmo1Vq0QqKY4zgyCGw@mail.gmail.com">q8tNvU_uA4p9TXKeNw1OdoQCQN4usBmo1Vq0QqKY4zgyCGw@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8<br>
<br>
Hey Pluggers.<br>
<br>
I'm planning on finally moving to encrypted and off the record<br>
messaging to celebrate the implementation of mandatory data tommorrow<br>
starting tomorrow.<br>
<br>
Based on the information put out by the EFF<br>
[Communicating with Others](<a href="https://ssd.eff.org/en/module/communicating-others" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://ssd.eff.org/en/module/communicating-others</a>)<br>
I'm currently looking at using signal for encrypted messaging and<br>
chatsecure for off the record messaging as both are available on ios<br>
and android.<br>
<br>
Has anyone had experience using these or similar tools and have any<br>
advice for how to encourage friends and family to start using them as<br>
well?<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Luke<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 09:05:56 +0800<br>
From: "Nicholas Lloyd - HESWA" <<a href="mailto:nic@heswa.com.au">nic@heswa.com.au</a>><br>
To: "'Luke John'" <<a href="mailto:email@lukejohn.me">email@lukejohn.me</a>>, <<a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [plug] Mandatory data retention<br>
Message-ID: <240901d1048a$270b6070$75222150$@<a href="http://heswa.com.au" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">heswa.com.au</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Hi Luke,<br>
<br>
I use SMSSecure on Android. It's pretty simple to use, and I actually like<br>
it better than the stock Cyanogenmod messaging app. SMSSecure is also<br>
available on F-droid - which is required for me because I don't run Google<br>
services.<br>
<br>
I only have a few friends who have it so far, but it's quick and easy and<br>
imports your texts from the previous app, so it's just a matter of getting<br>
around to talk to everyone about it. You can set it up for less tech-savvy<br>
friends and family and they basically won't notice any change.<br>
<br>
<br>
Kind regards,<br>
<br>
<br>
Nicholas Lloyd<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 01:10:06 +0000<br>
From: Marcos Ra?l Carot <<a href="mailto:marcos.carot@gmail.com">marcos.carot@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Nicholas Lloyd - HESWA <<a href="mailto:nic@heswa.com.au">nic@heswa.com.au</a>>, Luke John<br>
<<a href="mailto:email@lukejohn.me">email@lukejohn.me</a>>, <a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
Subject: Re: [plug] Mandatory data retention<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAOVPDd8h1D5=<a href="mailto:QGTP30Nxt4svLtZV5hxbAkUQnq7v_8%2B5-GNNFQ@mail.gmail.com">QGTP30Nxt4svLtZV5hxbAkUQnq7v_8+5-GNNFQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Hi,<br>
<br>
I use Telegram, available for Android, IOS, Windows, Mac and Linux.<br>
<br>
0481098326 if someone wants to add me :)<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Marcos<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 at 09:06 Nicholas Lloyd - HESWA <<a href="mailto:nic@heswa.com.au">nic@heswa.com.au</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> Hi Luke,<br>
><br>
> I use SMSSecure on Android. It's pretty simple to use, and I actually like<br>
> it better than the stock Cyanogenmod messaging app. SMSSecure is also<br>
> available on F-droid - which is required for me because I don't run Google<br>
> services.<br>
><br>
> I only have a few friends who have it so far, but it's quick and easy and<br>
> imports your texts from the previous app, so it's just a matter of getting<br>
> around to talk to everyone about it. You can set it up for less tech-savvy<br>
> friends and family and they basically won't notice any change.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Kind regards,<br>
><br>
><br>
> Nicholas Lloyd<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> PLUG discussion list: <a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug</a><br>
> Committee e-mail: <a href="mailto:committee@plug.org.au">committee@plug.org.au</a><br>
> PLUG Membership: <a href="http://www.plug.org.au/membership" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.plug.org.au/membership</a><br>
><br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 01:10:38 +0000<br>
From: Marcos Ra?l Carot <<a href="mailto:marcos.carot@gmail.com">marcos.carot@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Nicholas Lloyd - HESWA <<a href="mailto:nic@heswa.com.au">nic@heswa.com.au</a>>, Luke John<br>
<<a href="mailto:email@lukejohn.me">email@lukejohn.me</a>>, <a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
Subject: Re: [plug] Mandatory data retention<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAOVPDd9Yv=<a href="mailto:k0qRzVczgoXWncTAdV0noz4BoBRGNpOGZMFPXmbw@mail.gmail.com">k0qRzVczgoXWncTAdV0noz4BoBRGNpOGZMFPXmbw@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Sorry, forgot the mandatory link :)<br>
<br>
<a href="https://telegram.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://telegram.org/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 at 09:10 Marcos Ra?l Carot <<a href="mailto:marcos.carot@gmail.com">marcos.carot@gmail.com</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> Hi,<br>
><br>
> I use Telegram, available for Android, IOS, Windows, Mac and Linux.<br>
><br>
> 0481098326 if someone wants to add me :)<br>
><br>
> Cheers,<br>
><br>
> Marcos<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 at 09:06 Nicholas Lloyd - HESWA <<a href="mailto:nic@heswa.com.au">nic@heswa.com.au</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Hi Luke,<br>
>><br>
>> I use SMSSecure on Android. It's pretty simple to use, and I actually<br>
>> like<br>
>> it better than the stock Cyanogenmod messaging app. SMSSecure is also<br>
>> available on F-droid - which is required for me because I don't run Google<br>
>> services.<br>
>><br>
>> I only have a few friends who have it so far, but it's quick and easy and<br>
>> imports your texts from the previous app, so it's just a matter of getting<br>
>> around to talk to everyone about it. You can set it up for less<br>
>> tech-savvy<br>
>> friends and family and they basically won't notice any change.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Kind regards,<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Nicholas Lloyd<br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> PLUG discussion list: <a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug</a><br>
>> Committee e-mail: <a href="mailto:committee@plug.org.au">committee@plug.org.au</a><br>
>> PLUG Membership: <a href="http://www.plug.org.au/membership" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.plug.org.au/membership</a><br>
>><br>
><br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 5<br>
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 09:29:10 +0800<br>
From: Hani Jabr <<a href="mailto:hani@nuix.net">hani@nuix.net</a>><br>
To: Luke John <<a href="mailto:email@lukejohn.me">email@lukejohn.me</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a>" <<a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [plug] Mandatory data retention<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:0CBDFB81-9C11-4DB2-8345-5B56037500EC@nuix.net">0CBDFB81-9C11-4DB2-8345-5B56037500EC@nuix.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
Isn't this "too little, too late?" Doesn't this just make you a target for the AFP and serve as an excuse to ban encryption?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> On 12 Oct 2015, at 08:52, Luke John <<a href="mailto:email@lukejohn.me">email@lukejohn.me</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hey Pluggers.<br>
><br>
> I'm planning on finally moving to encrypted and off the record<br>
> messaging to celebrate the implementation of mandatory data tommorrow<br>
> starting tomorrow.<br>
><br>
> Based on the information put out by the EFF<br>
> [Communicating with Others](<a href="https://ssd.eff.org/en/module/communicating-others" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://ssd.eff.org/en/module/communicating-others</a>)<br>
> I'm currently looking at using signal for encrypted messaging and<br>
> chatsecure for off the record messaging as both are available on ios<br>
> and android.<br>
><br>
> Has anyone had experience using these or similar tools and have any<br>
> advice for how to encourage friends and family to start using them as<br>
> well?<br>
><br>
> Cheers,<br>
> Luke<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> PLUG discussion list: <a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug</a><br>
> Committee e-mail: <a href="mailto:committee@plug.org.au">committee@plug.org.au</a><br>
> PLUG Membership: <a href="http://www.plug.org.au/membership" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.plug.org.au/membership</a><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 6<br>
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 09:49:03 +0800<br>
From: "Nicholas Lloyd - HESWA" <<a href="mailto:nic@heswa.com.au">nic@heswa.com.au</a>><br>
To: <<a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [plug] Mandatory data retention<br>
Message-ID: <243101d10490$2d4edd80$87ec9880$@<a href="http://heswa.com.au" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">heswa.com.au</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Using Linux already makes us targets. I figure I may as well make it as<br>
difficult as possible for them to find out my grocery list. My reasoning<br>
is:<br>
<br>
They shouldn't be invading my privacy.<br>
If more of us use encryption, then it provides better protection for those<br>
who really need it - like journalists and whistle-blowers.<br>
<br>
Citizens; not suspects.<br>
<br>
<br>
Kind regards,<br>
<br>
<br>
Nick<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: plug [mailto:<a href="mailto:plug-bounces@plug.org.au">plug-bounces@plug.org.au</a>] On Behalf Of Hani Jabr<br>
Sent: Monday, 12 October 2015 9:29 AM<br>
To: Luke John<br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
Subject: Re: [plug] Mandatory data retention<br>
<br>
Isn't this "too little, too late?" Doesn't this just make you a target for<br>
the AFP and serve as an excuse to ban encryption?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> On 12 Oct 2015, at 08:52, Luke John <<a href="mailto:email@lukejohn.me">email@lukejohn.me</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hey Pluggers.<br>
><br>
> I'm planning on finally moving to encrypted and off the record<br>
> messaging to celebrate the implementation of mandatory data tommorrow<br>
> starting tomorrow.<br>
><br>
> Based on the information put out by the EFF [Communicating with<br>
> Others](<a href="https://ssd.eff.org/en/module/communicating-others" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://ssd.eff.org/en/module/communicating-others</a>)<br>
> I'm currently looking at using signal for encrypted messaging and<br>
> chatsecure for off the record messaging as both are available on ios<br>
> and android.<br>
><br>
> Has anyone had experience using these or similar tools and have any<br>
> advice for how to encourage friends and family to start using them as<br>
> well?<br>
><br>
> Cheers,<br>
> Luke<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> PLUG discussion list: <a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug</a><br>
> Committee e-mail: <a href="mailto:committee@plug.org.au">committee@plug.org.au</a> PLUG Membership:<br>
> <a href="http://www.plug.org.au/membership" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.plug.org.au/membership</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
PLUG discussion list: <a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug</a><br>
Committee e-mail: <a href="mailto:committee@plug.org.au">committee@plug.org.au</a><br>
PLUG Membership: <a href="http://www.plug.org.au/membership" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.plug.org.au/membership</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 7<br>
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 09:52:34 +0800<br>
From: Euan <<a href="mailto:euan@dekock.net">euan@dekock.net</a>><br>
To: Hani Jabr <<a href="mailto:hani@nuix.net">hani@nuix.net</a>>,Luke John <<a href="mailto:email@lukejohn.me">email@lukejohn.me</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a>" <<a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [plug] Mandatory data retention<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:D61FB635-C4B9-4948-AABC-B26EF272348F@dekock.net">D61FB635-C4B9-4948-AABC-B26EF272348F@dekock.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
The more people that use encryption the better, that way the signal to noise ratio is lower and it's much harder to profile people purely because they use encryption.<br>
<br>
In other words - we help protect those who need privacy by using encryption ourselves.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Euan<br>
<br>
On 12 October 2015 9:29:10 AM AWST, Hani Jabr <<a href="mailto:hani@nuix.net">hani@nuix.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>Isn't this "too little, too late?" Doesn't this just make you a target<br>
>for the AFP and serve as an excuse to ban encryption?<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>> On 12 Oct 2015, at 08:52, Luke John <<a href="mailto:email@lukejohn.me">email@lukejohn.me</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Hey Pluggers.<br>
>><br>
>> I'm planning on finally moving to encrypted and off the record<br>
>> messaging to celebrate the implementation of mandatory data tommorrow<br>
>> starting tomorrow.<br>
>><br>
>> Based on the information put out by the EFF<br>
>> [Communicating with<br>
>Others](<a href="https://ssd.eff.org/en/module/communicating-others" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://ssd.eff.org/en/module/communicating-others</a>)<br>
>> I'm currently looking at using signal for encrypted messaging and<br>
>> chatsecure for off the record messaging as both are available on ios<br>
>> and android.<br>
>><br>
>> Has anyone had experience using these or similar tools and have any<br>
>> advice for how to encourage friends and family to start using them as<br>
>> well?<br>
>><br>
>> Cheers,<br>
>> Luke<br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> PLUG discussion list: <a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug</a><br>
>> Committee e-mail: <a href="mailto:committee@plug.org.au">committee@plug.org.au</a><br>
>> PLUG Membership: <a href="http://www.plug.org.au/membership" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.plug.org.au/membership</a><br>
>_______________________________________________<br>
>PLUG discussion list: <a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
><a href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug</a><br>
>Committee e-mail: <a href="mailto:committee@plug.org.au">committee@plug.org.au</a><br>
>PLUG Membership: <a href="http://www.plug.org.au/membership" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.plug.org.au/membership</a><br>
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<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 8<br>
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 01:54:59 +0000<br>
From: Marcos Ra?l Carot <<a href="mailto:marcos.carot@gmail.com">marcos.carot@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Euan <<a href="mailto:euan@dekock.net">euan@dekock.net</a>>, Hani Jabr <<a href="mailto:hani@nuix.net">hani@nuix.net</a>>, Luke John<br>
<<a href="mailto:email@lukejohn.me">email@lukejohn.me</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a>" <<a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [plug] Mandatory data retention<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAOVPDd-_MSefQX=2zQCcNu6XaTNYOS-c6Z1LYRo_CZdK4Me0=<a href="mailto:w@mail.gmail.com">w@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Fully agree. I have been thinking of setting a TOR node in my house.<br>
<br>
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 at 09:52 Euan <<a href="mailto:euan@dekock.net">euan@dekock.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> The more people that use encryption the better, that way the signal to<br>
> noise ratio is lower and it's much harder to profile people purely because<br>
> they use encryption.<br>
><br>
> In other words - we help protect those who need privacy by using<br>
> encryption ourselves.<br>
><br>
> Regards,<br>
><br>
> Euan<br>
><br>
> On 12 October 2015 9:29:10 AM AWST, Hani Jabr <<a href="mailto:hani@nuix.net">hani@nuix.net</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Isn't this "too little, too late?" Doesn't this just make you a target for the AFP and serve as an excuse to ban encryption?<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On 12 Oct 2015, at 08:52, Luke John <<a href="mailto:email@lukejohn.me">email@lukejohn.me</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Hey Pluggers.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I'm planning on finally moving to encrypted and off the record<br>
>>> messaging to celebrate the implementation of mandatory data tommorrow<br>
>>> starting tomorrow.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Based on the information put out by the EFF<br>
>>> [Communicating with Others](<a href="https://ssd.eff.org/en/module/communicating-others" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://ssd.eff.org/en/module/communicating-others</a>)<br>
>>> I'm currently looking at using signal for encrypted messaging and<br>
>>> chatsecure for off the record messaging as both are available on ios<br>
>>> and android.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Has anyone had experience using these or similar<br>
>>> tools and have any<br>
>>> advice for how to encourage friends and family to start using them as<br>
>>> well?<br>
>>><br>
>>> Cheers,<br>
>>> Luke<br>
>>> ------------------------------<br>
>>><br>
>>> PLUG discussion list: <a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
>>> <a href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug</a><br>
>>> Committee e-mail: <a href="mailto:committee@plug.org.au">committee@plug.org.au</a><br>
>>> PLUG Membership: <a href="http://www.plug.org.au/membership" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.plug.org.au/membership</a><br>
>>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> PLUG discussion list: <a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug</a><br>
>> Committee e-mail: <a href="mailto:committee@plug.org.au">committee@plug.org.au</a><br>
>> PLUG Membership: <a href="http://www.plug.org.au/membership" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.plug.org.au/membership</a><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
> PLUG discussion list: <a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug</a><br>
> Committee e-mail: <a href="mailto:committee@plug.org.au">committee@plug.org.au</a><br>
> PLUG Membership: <a href="http://www.plug.org.au/membership" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.plug.org.au/membership</a><br>
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<br>
Message: 9<br>
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 10:13:14 +0800<br>
From: Michael Van Delft <<a href="mailto:michael@hybr.id.au">michael@hybr.id.au</a>><br>
To: "<a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a>" <<a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [plug] Mandatory data retention<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAJ0HW%2BcDCHCOF9JV9cABv-JNJRiEmsDfH%2BRDWqav6MVYKv70gg@mail.gmail.com">CAJ0HW+cDCHCOF9JV9cABv-JNJRiEmsDfH+RDWqav6MVYKv70gg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8<br>
<br>
I don't personally use it but just throwing it out there as an idea;<br>
WhatsApp do end to end encryption and use the same protocol as<br>
TextSecure from Open Whisper Systems<br>
<a href="https://whispersystems.org/blog/whatsapp/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://whispersystems.org/blog/whatsapp/</a> the nice thing about<br>
WhatsApp is that it's big enough and mainstream enough that it should<br>
be fairly easy to convince friends and family to use it.<br>
<br>
iMessage is end to end encrypted too, it's not cross platform and I<br>
wish they would open it up a bit more so we could verify that it does<br>
what it says it does. Mathew Green has a pretty good write up about<br>
their crypto thorough and it sounds pretty robust<br>
<a href="http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2015/09/lets-talk-about-imessage-again.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2015/09/lets-talk-about-imessage-again.html</a><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 10<br>
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 15:36:37 +0800<br>
From: Jim Householder <<a href="mailto:nofixed@westnet.com.au">nofixed@westnet.com.au</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
Subject: Re: [plug] Mandatory data retention<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:561B6305.8070807@westnet.com.au">561B6305.8070807@westnet.com.au</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed<br>
<br>
If all that is retained is meta-data, what will encryption accomplish<br>
other than future-proofing?<br>
<br>
<br>
On 12/10/15 09:29, Hani Jabr wrote:<br>
> Isn't this "too little, too late?" Doesn't this just make you a target for the AFP and serve as an excuse to ban encryption?<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>> On 12 Oct 2015, at 08:52, Luke John <<a href="mailto:email@lukejohn.me">email@lukejohn.me</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Hey Pluggers.<br>
>><br>
>> I'm planning on finally moving to encrypted and off the record<br>
>> messaging to celebrate the implementation of mandatory data tommorrow<br>
>> starting tomorrow.<br>
>><br>
>> Based on the information put out by the EFF<br>
>> [Communicating with Others](<a href="https://ssd.eff.org/en/module/communicating-others" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://ssd.eff.org/en/module/communicating-others</a>)<br>
>> I'm currently looking at using signal for encrypted messaging and<br>
>> chatsecure for off the record messaging as both are available on ios<br>
>> and android.<br>
>><br>
>> Has anyone had experience using these or similar tools and have any<br>
>> advice for how to encourage friends and family to start using them as<br>
>> well?<br>
>><br>
>> Cheers,<br>
>> Luke<br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> PLUG discussion list: <a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug</a><br>
>> Committee e-mail: <a href="mailto:committee@plug.org.au">committee@plug.org.au</a><br>
>> PLUG Membership: <a href="http://www.plug.org.au/membership" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.plug.org.au/membership</a><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> PLUG discussion list: <a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug</a><br>
> Committee e-mail: <a href="mailto:committee@plug.org.au">committee@plug.org.au</a><br>
> PLUG Membership: <a href="http://www.plug.org.au/membership" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.plug.org.au/membership</a><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 11<br>
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 17:47:28 +0800<br>
From: Luke Woollard <<a href="mailto:luke.woollard@osmahi.com">luke.woollard@osmahi.com</a>><br>
To: Jim Householder <<a href="mailto:nofixed@westnet.com.au">nofixed@westnet.com.au</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a>" <<a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [plug] Mandatory data retention<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAO=q8tMJFR=<a href="mailto:U28JeO8B9ZsZ_4petW8p%2BL78W3_BiwK4-GD_hsg@mail.gmail.com">U28JeO8B9ZsZ_4petW8p+L78W3_BiwK4-GD_hsg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8<br>
<br>
Thanks for all the feedback everyone.<br>
<br>
@Marcos<br>
Running a TOR edge node sounds like a fair bit of hassle. I've heard<br>
many anecdotes about homes being raided. Good luck if you do go ahead<br>
with it.<br>
<br>
@Jim<br>
"Even if the current definition of what is to be retained under the<br>
data retention regime is limited to certain information, there is the<br>
likelihood that this definition will expand at a later date.<br>
Additionally there is the threat that innocuous activity could<br>
inadvertently raise suspicion through false positive identification.<br>
This could in turn increase the amount of warrants issued on innocent<br>
people, warrants which will then cause the retention of extra content<br>
in relation to these people. Thus, average users could be more likely<br>
to come under the increased scrutiny of a preservation order so<br>
protecting data that is outside the purview of the mandatory data<br>
retention regime may be advisable." -><br>
<a href="https://pirateparty.org.au/dataretention/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://pirateparty.org.au/dataretention/</a><br>
<br>
Also this is really something I've been intending to do for a while<br>
now. Hopefully given the introduction of data retention it will be<br>
easier to encourage people to join.<br>
<br>
cheers<br>
Luke John<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 3:36 PM, Jim Householder <<a href="mailto:nofixed@westnet.com.au">nofixed@westnet.com.au</a>> wrote:<br>
> If all that is retained is meta-data, what will encryption accomplish other<br>
> than future-proofing?<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On 12/10/15 09:29, Hani Jabr wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Isn't this "too little, too late?" Doesn't this just make you a target<br>
>> for the AFP and serve as an excuse to ban encryption?<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>> On 12 Oct 2015, at 08:52, Luke John <<a href="mailto:email@lukejohn.me">email@lukejohn.me</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Hey Pluggers.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I'm planning on finally moving to encrypted and off the record<br>
>>> messaging to celebrate the implementation of mandatory data tommorrow<br>
>>> starting tomorrow.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Based on the information put out by the EFF<br>
>>> [Communicating with<br>
>>> Others](<a href="https://ssd.eff.org/en/module/communicating-others" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://ssd.eff.org/en/module/communicating-others</a>)<br>
>>> I'm currently looking at using signal for encrypted messaging and<br>
>>> chatsecure for off the record messaging as both are available on ios<br>
>>> and android.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Has anyone had experience using these or similar tools and have any<br>
>>> advice for how to encourage friends and family to start using them as<br>
>>> well?<br>
>>><br>
>>> Cheers,<br>
>>> Luke<br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> PLUG discussion list: <a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
>>> <a href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug</a><br>
>>> Committee e-mail: <a href="mailto:committee@plug.org.au">committee@plug.org.au</a><br>
>>> PLUG Membership: <a href="http://www.plug.org.au/membership" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.plug.org.au/membership</a><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> PLUG discussion list: <a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug</a><br>
>> Committee e-mail: <a href="mailto:committee@plug.org.au">committee@plug.org.au</a><br>
>> PLUG Membership: <a href="http://www.plug.org.au/membership" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.plug.org.au/membership</a><br>
>><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> PLUG discussion list: <a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug</a><br>
> Committee e-mail: <a href="mailto:committee@plug.org.au">committee@plug.org.au</a><br>
> PLUG Membership: <a href="http://www.plug.org.au/membership" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.plug.org.au/membership</a><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 12<br>
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 18:25:52 +0800<br>
From: Euan <<a href="mailto:euan@dekock.net">euan@dekock.net</a>><br>
To: Jim Householder <<a href="mailto:nofixed@westnet.com.au">nofixed@westnet.com.au</a>>,<a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
Subject: Re: [plug] Mandatory data retention<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4958FABB-86AE-42B0-A391-B3E59AC12206@dekock.net">4958FABB-86AE-42B0-A391-B3E59AC12206@dekock.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Metadata enables the gov to determine the source and destination of your traffic, and enables them to associate that traffic to a billing entity.<br>
<br>
The assumption being that they are already capable of accessing the actual content of the communications - which I don't think is in dispute any more.<br>
<br>
By encrypting the data we force them to act within the published law - i.e. They only get to see the meta data they have passed a law to gain access to.<br>
<br>
This way we all have a clear understanding of who is seeing what. If they don't want to see the actual data, then encryption shouldn't be an issue.<br>
<br>
Deeper encryption, like tor and vpn's also eliminate a lot of the meta data, but not completely, by gathering the meta data directly from your isp they typically capture it before it enters tor, and the vpn endpoints are still visible.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Euan.<br>
<br>
On 12 October 2015 3:36:37 PM AWST, Jim Householder <<a href="mailto:nofixed@westnet.com.au">nofixed@westnet.com.au</a>> wrote:<br>
>If all that is retained is meta-data, what will encryption accomplish<br>
>other than future-proofing?<br>
><br>
><br>
>On 12/10/15 09:29, Hani Jabr wrote:<br>
>> Isn't this "too little, too late?" Doesn't this just make you a<br>
>target for the AFP and serve as an excuse to ban encryption?<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>> On 12 Oct 2015, at 08:52, Luke John <<a href="mailto:email@lukejohn.me">email@lukejohn.me</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Hey Pluggers.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I'm planning on finally moving to encrypted and off the record<br>
>>> messaging to celebrate the implementation of mandatory data<br>
>tommorrow<br>
>>> starting tomorrow.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Based on the information put out by the EFF<br>
>>> [Communicating with<br>
>Others](<a href="https://ssd.eff.org/en/module/communicating-others" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://ssd.eff.org/en/module/communicating-others</a>)<br>
>>> I'm currently looking at using signal for encrypted messaging and<br>
>>> chatsecure for off the record messaging as both are available on ios<br>
>>> and android.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Has anyone had experience using these or similar tools and have any<br>
>>> advice for how to encourage friends and family to start using them<br>
>as<br>
>>> well?<br>
>>><br>
>>> Cheers,<br>
>>> Luke<br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> PLUG discussion list: <a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
>>> <a href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug</a><br>
>>> Committee e-mail: <a href="mailto:committee@plug.org.au">committee@plug.org.au</a><br>
>>> PLUG Membership: <a href="http://www.plug.org.au/membership" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.plug.org.au/membership</a><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> PLUG discussion list: <a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug</a><br>
>> Committee e-mail: <a href="mailto:committee@plug.org.au">committee@plug.org.au</a><br>
>> PLUG Membership: <a href="http://www.plug.org.au/membership" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.plug.org.au/membership</a><br>
>><br>
><br>
>_______________________________________________<br>
>PLUG discussion list: <a href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a><br>
><a href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug</a><br>
>Committee e-mail: <a href="mailto:committee@plug.org.au">committee@plug.org.au</a><br>
>PLUG Membership: <a href="http://www.plug.org.au/membership" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.plug.org.au/membership</a><br>
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</blockquote></div>
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