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<p>Hi Onno,</p>
<p>I understand your frustration. Every day in my current role at
Red Hat I have discussions with customers over free open source
verse paid subscriptions. Trying to show value to companies that's
not purely based all around the code is hard. Its more around what
you can give beyond just the code (e.g. as a service, support,
etc). Happy to catch up sometime for a coffee and discuss further
and see where I can help you? (feel free email me off list or ping
me on Linkedin)<br>
</p>
<p>Like to say I will be at the next plug event, but having baby has
made it hard :)<br>
</p>
<p>Kind Regards</p>
<p>Shaun Hofer<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 21/03/2022 11:44 am, Onno Benschop
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CACybYRXc8k30szdwoQnBRopfRUEkzS+ZyhA0N7-5GQkaj1ECBg@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi Chris,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>First of all, didn't know such a thing existed, great!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As for the broader issue, the current Open Source model is
broken. I've just spent two days publishing some scripts I
wrote which are no doubt going to save people time and effort.
I am self-employed and that time came out of my own pocket,
there's no magic employer or benefactor paying me for it.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is true for much of the code that is published. It's
true for much of the content on the Internet, podcasts,
websites, graphics, music, all of it is being produced by
people who mostly don't get paid for any of it.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You can argue that you should sort out money before you
start publishing, and in an ideal world that would be the
case, except that nobody would publish and you would end up
with no content, other than that sanctioned by the main media
outlets.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The centralisation of software and media are both following
the same path. As a software developer and podcaster, I'm
contributing more than most to the likes of Google, Facebook,
Twitter, Github, AWS and others. None of this generates
income.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For a while I asked for donations. I think in 10 years I
made $300. That's not enough to pay for coffee, let alone
food, rent, electricity, let alone internet connectivity,
computers and the like.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>All of my efforts are for "public benefit", but the people
making that benefit are those who need it least.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So, despite the fact that there is such a thing as "The
Linux Foundation", that doesn't structurally actually deal
with the underlying issue. Freeloaders.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I note that I've stopped participating in Hackathons,
despite winning each one I entered, since this too is an
example of freeloading, where a project benefits from
hundreds, if not thousands of man-hours, at no charge, when
the organisations who put these events together, Government
Departments, Mining and Accounting, large IT companies, all
have plenty of money to actually pay each participant for
their work, but don't.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So, how is this fixed?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Should we all go on strike? Should we call out the
behaviour? Should we charge for every download?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think that having a discussion here is a very good start.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As a side-observation. I'm typing this on a Linux Desktop
which I'm running at no charge. Should I pay for that, or is
my history of lodging bug reports, updating documentation,
publishing scripts and podcasts enough "payment"?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Look forward to your thoughts.<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 at 11:08,
Chris Hoy Poy <<a href="mailto:chris@hoypoy.id.au"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">chris@hoypoy.id.au</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">I find it interesting there is no mention of
my employer, The Linux Foundation.
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">We steward and support many open source
projects & foundations, including CNCF (home of
kubernetes), OpenJS and of course the Linux kernel itself.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><a
href="https://linuxfoundation.org/projects/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://linuxfoundation.org/projects/</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">At least some of this issue is around
establishing and connecting sponsors to projects, which is
a lot of our community work too. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">We have our own open source research team as
well, and release annual reports on open source jobs etc -
2021 report is here:</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><a
href="https://www.linuxfoundation.org/tools/the-2021-open-source-jobs-report/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.linuxfoundation.org/tools/the-2021-open-source-jobs-report/</a></div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Cheers</div>
<div dir="auto">/Chris</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 21 Mar 2022, 8:25
am Onno Benschop, <<a href="mailto:onno@itmaze.com.au"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">onno@itmaze.com.au</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto"><a
href="https://www.businessinsider.com/open-source-developers-burnout-low-pay-internet-2022-3"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.businessinsider.com/open-source-developers-burnout-low-pay-internet-2022-3</a><br>
<br>
<div>--<br>
finger painting on glass is an inexact art - apologies
for any errors in this scra^Hibble<br>
<br>
()/)/)() ..ASCII for Onno..</div>
</div>
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</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">Onno Benschop<br>
<br>
()/)/)() ..ASCII for Onno..<br>
|>>? ..EBCDIC for Onno..<br>
--- -. -. --- ..Morse for Onno..<br>
<br>
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moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">onno@itmaze.com.au</a></div>
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<br>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
PLUG discussion list: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:plug@plug.org.au">plug@plug.org.au</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug">http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug</a>
Committee e-mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:committee@plug.org.au">committee@plug.org.au</a>
PLUG Membership: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.plug.org.au/membership">http://www.plug.org.au/membership</a></pre>
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