[plug] MS Curriculum at schools and TAFEs ...

[John Breen]

> To put it simply, it has always been this way. Maybe not with MS
> specific curriculum, but in general univerisities no longer are places for
> advanced tech. They just teach you how to code ADA, a bit of C, a little
> design, and you go and do it in the real world. Never do they teach
> free-thought, forward thinking or even a little philosophy. They simply
> churn out Java coding clones by the dozen.

Whilst in the main you are right - the schools, universities, etc.  don't
TEACH free thinking, philosophy or any of the rest of it, neither do they
actively discourage the students from working the techniques out for
themselves.  For that matter, they don't usually ENcourage them either, BUT
the opportunity is there for the students to learn for themselves.

Having said that, it then falls on the students to WANT to learn.  The
reason that universities are increasingly becoming diploma mills is largely
because the students don't want to learn any more than they have to to pass
and get a degree.  I suspect that has always been the case, but what it
means is that some universities are churning out graduates who are
technically just about qualified to tie their shoelaces.  It's a sad state
of affairs, but that's what is.

>
> Whether the curriculum includes MS specific stuff is irrelevant. The
> whole system is broken.

I disagree.  What's broken is the basis of the system.  The system could not
exist without the students.  And if the students son't want to learn, the
system doesn't work as it should.

>
> Dont get me wrong, I hate MS products, but if unis and tafes are
> weak enough to side with MS just for some more $$$s it just proves my
point
> that I wasted 3 years in what effectively turned out to be an extended
> high-school. I went thru in the early 90s and even the cracks were showing
> then, and if not for the brilliance of some lecturers the whole scheme
> wouldve fallen to shit much sooner. Learning to think was
extra-curricular,
> not part of the course. As long as you can hack out some small program in
> ADA you were right. Question the lecturer as to technique or alternative
> solutions? Dont be stupid.

I don't know which uni. you went to, but ALL my lecturers had strong
real-world experience and were more than willing to discuss alternative
approaches to problem-solving.  Given that you had to learn Ada (as I did),
I can make an educated guess - but it might well be wrong.  Anyway the point
is that not all unis/courses are like that.  Admittedly some are,
particularly where you have large class groups and the lecturer simply
cannot devote the time to each student that (s)he deserves.  Maybe I was
spoilt in that my class groups were always small, so that our lecturers
always found or made time to discuss any issues which arose in relation to
coursework.

>
> In fact, Ive come to the realisation recently that large sections of
> what they taught us were just plain wrong. I am especially questioning the
> Relational Database paradigm and its utility in solving real-world
problems.
> Not only that, but with the benefit of hind-sight I am left wondering why
> the lecturers tried to drum into us very early 'design is 90% of the job,
> the remaining 10% can be done by monkeys with a strong design', yet only
20%
> (if that) of the course was centred on design?

Again, I don't know what uni. you went to, but in _my_ course, design was
drummed into us from the word go, and probably 40% of the total course time
was spent on design.  To some extent, I agree with your point about RDBMS,
but it _does_ provide a useful grounding in, and logical stepping-up point
to OO design (at least that's what I found).

>
> Anyway, I think you are panicking for the wrong reasons. It is a
> much deeper problem which brings into question the independence (esp from
> commercial concerns), usefulness and adaptability of most uni's/tafes.
>

Now this is the crux of the issue.  Any educational institute will always be
at the mercy of those who control the marketplace.  At the moment, that just
happens to be Bill and his evil cohorts, but who knows what might happen in
the future?

Anyways, that's my $0.02 worth...

Regards,

John Breen

+------
| John Breen
| B Sc(Computer Science)
|
| john at fairport.com.au
| ICQ#777296