[plug] Commercial Help in LUGs

[Quintin Lette]

I think the RTFM response should be reserved for people that "should know 
better" have lots of experience with Linux (or atleast should in their 
capacity) and are benefiting from other people's help in more than a personal 
level.  I do have to agree if a so called "consultant" is asking simple 
questions that a quick look at manpages or a quick google would have solved 
then my response will be to ignore them (not quite as harsh as RTFM) Although 
if it got  too repetitive maybe RTFM would be called for.

As for newbies, or other people putting in an effort, I will help where I can, 
where I can being where I am able to sacrifice the time as well as having the 
technical skills, ie simple ok, indepth, dependant on mood/schedule/etc

Quintin
On Thursday 20 February 2003 19:38, Jon Miller wrote:
> Peter, I can see where you are coming from.  But keep in mind a lot of
> folks especially newbies do not understand some of the docs that come with
> the various apps. This is especially true when someone is just learning the
> OS. God knows most programmers are the worst writers when it comes to
> documentation (please no flame on this statement it is a general
> statement), they know what to do in the technical area but some
> unfortunately cannot relay this in a document. Using search engines are
> fine as long as you know how to phrase the question and this too takes some
> learning. If a question is being asked and it was answered a while back a
> statement or pointer to that would suffice.  In the MySQL UG, they are
> constantly using the urls links to the page in the manual where one can
> read up on their question. If they still did not understand most folks are
> quick to help.  I've seen replies to others questions that have replied
> with  "RTFM", and personally I  think that is just a poor response.  But
> then you may have to consider the source too.  Would you tell a client to
> RTFM if they ask a simple question over the phone? Do you expect to get
> paid for every question you're asked?  I have a policy, if I can answer the
> question quickly no problem.  If I have to spend a great deal of time
> looking it up then it's chargeable.  I think there is a limit to everything
> but mainly it's a judgement call.  But being rude isn't one of the traits
> that makes for a good UG.  I've been involved in UGs since the beginning of
> the BBS days and I've seen the good, bad and ugly users.  But I always
> remind myself that I too was a newbie and in some apps still am.  I'm
> always reminded the horse needs its tail more than once to swish the flies
> from its ass.
>
>
>
> Jon L. Miller, MCNE, CNS
> Director/Sr Systems Consultant
> MMT Networks Pty Ltd
> http://www.mmtnetworks.com.au
>
> "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure
>  is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby
>
> >>> PeterNicol at vrl.com.au 6:39:31 PM 20/02/2003 >>>
> >
> >  I agree with Jon here, there is so much more you can learn from people
> > that are doing real work with Linux than people tinkering (however
> > seriously) at home, and that its quite acceptable to ask for help on
> > commercial issues.
>
> I kinda agree, and kinda disagree.  If people were forbidden from, or
> flamed for, posting 'commercial' questions to the list, then it would
> rapidly cease to be interesting and useful.  Indeed, one of the selling
> points on Linux et al is it's 'community support'.
>
> However, I do get a little peeved when I see what I consider 'lazy'
> attitudes to the list, like people using it as a first port of call,
> instead of doing a google search or reading the manual.
>
> I kind of like the approach on the OpenBSD lists that I used to be on.  If
> you asked a stupid question or one that had an answer in an obvious place
> (like the manual) then you got flamed harshly.  Really harshly.  I am fine
> with this, but obsd tends to be a 'serious' os, not really played with by
> hobbiests.
>
> Linux is a friendlier community, but I don't think that we should tolerate
> being used by lazy people and exploited.  Beyond a certain point, if you
> are getting paid (often $100 or more an hour), and more often than not have
> to consult with unpaid hobbiests to do your job, then you need to take a
> long hard look at yourself.  Especially if you don't contribute much back.
>
> However, it is up to each individual on the list how they react to lazy or
> stupid questions, and how far they want to help someone.  I am
> uncomfortable with some attitudes on the list, and wouldn't use the list in
> the way some do, but, it is impossible to criticize someone for helping
> someone else.
>
> I have had commercial type questions as well as hobbiest questions answered
> on the list, and I think I have probably helped others in both situations
> on the odd occasion.  I think the community is pretty well self-regulating
> and tolerant of a wide range of views and personalities.