Munged post. :: [plug] linux in industry

[Bret Busby]

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, Craig Ringer wrote:

> 
> On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 10:08, Julian Clark wrote:
> > Hi Alex [& PLUG]
> > 
> > This post was somehow munged and attached to the Antivirus thread...
> > I'm not sure if something screwy happened between the chair and the 
> > screen, or if something went amiss with the mail delivery. ;)
> 
> If you started the thread by replying to another message and changing
> the subject, that'd be why. Otherwise, no idea.
> 
> > I guess that some of this stuff depends on your perception of real 
> > business. If your accountant feels that real business is making a pivot 
> > chart with pretty graphs from data in Excel. then he's probably right.
> 
> Yep, and perhaps more importantly it involves easily using tools that
> integrate with ATO and bank computer systems. Largely Windows-only
> tools.
> 
> I would not be surprised if small-scale accounting was one of the last
> business areas to become viable on Linux, even though big-end-of-town
> accounting is already generally very happy on UNIX and Linux.
> 
> --
> Craig Ringer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 

The issue of business using Linux (as in what enterprises run on Linux), 
is like opening a Pandora's box (notsomuch as in releasing evil, but 
more in that it can expose you to alot more than you bargained for).

Leon has alluded to a few overseas enterprises running Linux.

If my memory is correct, the Cornwall County Council (UK), switched 
about 850 desktops to Linux, a few years ago.

In terms of the accounting on Linux, depending on how small you regard 
"small-scale accounting" to be, there are GnuCash and CK-Ledger, GnuCash 
generally tries to be internationalised as much as possible, so it does 
not have GST components (but then, for a small enough enterprise that is 
not registered for GST, that probably does not matter), however, it does 
not have inventory, but I believe that CK-Ledger has inventory, payroll, 
and lots of modules.

Anne's employer, Power Business Systems, supplies and customises 
PRONTO, which is supported on Red Hat Linux and SUSE Linux (that is not 
to say that it does not run on other Linux distributions - only that it 
is only supported on those two), and supplies ACCPAC, which apparently 
runs well on Linux. I can supply contact details, or refer people to 
the relevant staff there, if anyone is interested in those products and 
contacts me off-list for contact details.

Anne has also developed applications in Informix, which, whilst it was 
for SCO platforms, ran on Linux (from memory) without any problems.

There are many resources on the Internet ("many, many, many", as 
Commander Lassard would say), and, there are many resources for finding 
enterprises that run Linux, or have switched to Linux. Doing such a 
search, a few years ago, was how I found about the Cornwall County 
Council switching its 850 desktops to Linux.

And, I personally think that this issue of Linux not being good as a 
desktop, or, being difficult (as in more difficult that Windows, or, 
requiring retraining for Windows users), is euphemistically described as 
a myth. 

With Linux, it can be set up to load X-Windows, like MS Windows 3.xx 
used to - start the underlying DOS (which is what Linux is - it runs 
from the HDD, therefore, must be a DOS), and then load and run the GUI, 
using the startx command (I can't remember now, what the corresponding 
command was, to start Windows 3.xx, from the DOS command line (I say 
DOS, and NOT MS-DOS, as my preference was DR-DOS, then Novell DOS)) - 
or, Linux can automatically load the GUI from bootup, like MS Windows 
9x, MS Windows 200x and MS WindowsXP, and OS/2, and, with Linux, from 
memory, starting with Caldera Linux, I think, it has been possible, to 
install, load and run Linux, without needing to see, or know how to use, 
a command line, for those who are so inclined.

And, from my knowledge of Red Hat Linux (from v6.x, I think), 
applications, named packages in Linux (or, that is the way that I 
perceive them), could be installed, or removed, or updated, using 
gnoRPM, and, later the RHN (from RH Linux v7.x and later, from memory).

Now, whilst the Debian apt package management system and its Connectiva 
derivation, the apt rpm for other, rpm-based distributions, has been 
reputed to be (far) superior to the RH gnoRPM and RHN systems for 
package management, the point is that the RH package management systems 
that I have mentioned, have been GUI, and, I believe that GUI interfaces 
(or, at least one GUI interface) for apt, exists.

So, I think that the objections to Linux, for the most part, are based 
more on misconceptions, than reality.

The major difference between the MS Windows and Linux GUI desktops, from 
my understanding (from the user perspective), is that the Linux GUI 
desktop, like (I think, from memory) the MacOS desktop, is single-click, 
rather than double-click.

There are some applications that are available for MS Windows, that 
apparently do not have an equivalent (as in fully equivalent) 
application for Linux, or a port to Linux - one that easily comes to 
memory, especially as it was mentioned after the Novell presentation to 
PLUG, is AutoCAD, which, from the users to whom I have spoken, has 
functionality that is not (or was not, when I last spoke to AutoCAD 
users), available in CAD applications that run on Linux. And, from what 
I understand, AutoDesk (I think they are the people behind AutoCAD), 
like some other MS-Windows-based application software, like MilleniaCorp 
(LegacyFamilyTree genealogy software) and Reckon Software (Quicken, 
QuickBooks), have no intention of porting their software to Linux, which 
is unfortunate for the software houses, as the Linux software is 
catching up (where it hasn't already caught up).

So, to people who say that it is too hard to switch to Linux, or find 
some other reason, I would simply say: "Try it - you have nothing to 
lose, you would probably prefer it, and, it costs much less, in 
obtaining any legitimate software that you would use, and, in support 
for the software and the operating system, due to the resources that 
exist, and, it is SAFER and more stable." And, a knoppix CD is useful to 
demonstrate (and to test for hardware compatibility), without affecting 
the existing system.

And, where people want to kep their existing MS-Windows installation 
and software, and to install/try/use Linux as a multiple booting system, 
without affecting their existing Windows installation, there is the 
utility that came with a version of Mandrake, that we got, that 
repartitions a HDD for installing Linux, without affecting (the 
usability of) the existing MS-Windows installation.

And, this isue of "real businesses" and what they use, is easily shown, 
by one of the domain name registries using MySQL and another using 
PostgreSQL, both of which run (as far as I am aware) on Linux, and, the 
majority of the Internet, runs on Apache, which runs happily on Linux, 
and it must be remembered, that (as far as I am aware, it is still true) 
no virus has yet been written, that successfully runs on Linux (so, it 
is not necessarily bad, that not all applications that run on 
MS-Windows, are available to run on Linux :) ).

Oh, and, there is another aspect to Linux - generally, web applications 
that run on a Linux-based platform, are universally accessible, whereas 
web applications that run on MS-Windows-based platforms, are increasing 
restricted, in functionality and access, to proprietary MS-Windows-based 
software, which restricts access to web applications. so, if businesses 
are genuinely interested in trading and in making money, and, have web 
sites and thence web applications, if they use MS-Windows-based software 
and applications on their web sites, they are telling potential 
customers and trade, "Go away - we don't want to make more money."

A good example of the increasing restrictions on accessibility, is that 
some .NET development tools, result in applications that are only 
accessible using Internet Explorer. I have encounterd a few asp 
.net?) websites, that are openly inaccessible other than by using 
Internet Explorer. And, to me, using Internet Explorer on the Internet, 
is a bit like a young woman walking around naked and alone, in 
Northbridge, in the first couple of hours after midnight. She might be 
safe, she might not - but I don't like her chances.

So, I would say that REAL businesses should be using Linux, and, 
Linux-based applications, if the businesses want people to buy goods and 
services from them, and to do trade with them, especially of their 
business involves web sites and web applications. However, there are 
occasions (such as draughtsmen who need the finer detailed functionality 
of AutoCAD), where MS-Windows may be more appropriate, just not so many 
of them.

-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..............

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
  Chapter 28 of 
  "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
  A Trilogy In Four Parts",
  written by Douglas Adams, 
  published by Pan Books, 1992 
....................................................