[plug] Gentoo on APC cover disc

[hatari at iinet.net.au]

Hi, Tomasz....

I liked your discussion.  However, why should I need to bother with "package managers" at 
all?  I don't want flexibility; I want stability (ie not "stable" sense but more "steady-state").   
(Appreciate fully what you said but you might have missed my point.)

Regards,
wayne.

>On 5 Jul 2007 at 11:09, Tomasz Grzegurzko wrote:
> On 7/5/07, hatari at iinet.net.au <hatari at iinet.net.au> wrote:
> > Yes, Jim.....
> >
> > FYI and FYI-PLUG
> > To me the real problem with Linux is the program-dependency problem.  With so many
> > programs being developed from all directions (ie open-source) there aren't solid strategies to
> > maintain consistency or consistent installation.  Many programs that I try to load or run have
> > "dependencies".  I know that you can do things like apt-get but that maintains an "ongoing"
> > update pathway (extremely annoying).  It would be great if there was some kind of procedure
> > or standard that guaranteed open-source development or usage was guaranteed 1st pop (or
> > very close to it).
> >
> 
> Many people have stated the same trouble with the Kernel; to have a
> stable API that third parties can always rely upon. While this is 900%
> needed in a binary-only environment, the beauty of open source is that
> you can change the API when you need to and other people can see that
> change and react accordingly too. The extremely fast pace of kernel
> development in that instance means that without the flexibility to
> change things when they are fundamentally needed works two ways: it
> breaks APIs, and drags dependencies all over the place like you're
> saying, but it also leaves behind legacy crap that needs rethinking. I
> pity the designers of x86 CPUs because they are dragging their heels
> along so much legacy junk for instance.
> 
> Linux is the most willing to break with legacy. The second most
> company I've seen on a big scale do this is Apple; first with a
> Unix-based OS, then with a totally different architecture. The one
> I've seen do this least is Micro$oft. Think about how long it took
> them to even merge two Win32's -- the DOS line and the NT line. And
> they've done it along with many compromises (ie. security).
> 
> I understand a "user" viewpoint of this frustration, it's hard to keep
> up because things change so quickly! There is an advantage to this
> though and that is flexibility... It's amazing that programs like apt
> can cope so well, which is why package "managers" (not that add/remove
> programs crap" have become thousands of times more powerful and
> useful. How many other operating systems can upgrade (not update)
> themselves while still running on the fly? This is due to the power of
> package *management*.
> 
> I've found this dependency hell gets mostly solved when one learns to
> use package managers to their fullest potential.
> 
> Regards,
> Tomasz
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