[plug] E-MAIL NON DELIVERY UPDATE

[hatari at iinet.net.au]

Hello, Craig, Alex, Arie, Bernd (et al)....

Kind of disagree with Craig here.  This set of emails is not really off-topic.  This is a Club - 
although it might be argued that this is a Mailing List.  OK; with me either way.

I agree with Bernd.... ultimately, the testing might have been simple.

However each of you ask yourself this question:  Ever been doing some kind of problem 
resolution in I.T. and then said to yourself: "Wait; I know an easier way to do this!", or "Hang-
on; backup - this is not going to get me the result I am looking for."?  I suspect this is a 
common human condition.  So if it is common to us all - why bad-mouth the unfortunate?

Let me give all of you a tip:  Carpenters have been working with wood for thousands of years; 
steel workers have been working with all types of steel for hundreds of years; motor 
mechanics have been working with cars for decades; I.T. "guys" have been working with 
computers only for a very brief moment in history in relative terms.  All the bugs in 
processing, troubleshooting, colleague-cooperation, and people-skills have not yet been 
ironed out of that career.  The way I read the situation now in many organizations is that I.T. 
"guys" are now treated at the same level that Cleaners operate on.  Not to be seen or heard 
until someone gets upset at a mess (usually theirs).  This has mainly come about because 
very sad people continually chop us off at the knees because of their own very bad 
performance (which I alluded to in a previous email).  Quite sad really, given the time and 
effort it takes to build I.T. skills.  My estimate is that a good I.T. "guy" takes about the same 
effort as a good Doctor.  Anyway, I lost my sense of humour at that point.  So I'm off to get a 
cleaning job; stuff you silly I.T. nerds.  Stop arguing at each other and you might make some 
progress.

Regards,
wayne

>On 28 Sep 2007 at 9:38, Craig Foster wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: plug-bounces at plug.org.au [mailto:plug-bounces at plug.org.au] On
> > Behalf Of Bernd Felsche
> > Sent: Friday, 28 September 2007 7:21 AM
> > To: plug at plug.org.au
> > Subject: Re: [plug] E-MAIL NON DELIVERY UPDATE
> > 
> > Alex Polglaze <apolglaze at book-keepingnetwork.com.au> wrote:
> > >Alex Polglaze wrote:
> > 
> > >>> In trying to work out why it no longer works, the IT guy at his
> > work,
> > >>> I am reluctant to use the word expert, has finally worked out that
> > >>> when they upgraded their MS exchange, it is no longer able to send
> > to
> > >>> e-mail to Linux boxes.
> > 
> > >>> Therefore, the problem must be at my office and I need to change
> my
> > OS.
> > 
> > >UPDATE
> > 
> > >It started working today, we rec'd an e-mail, first one for months.
> > 
> > >We rang to say that we had rec'd one.
> > 
> > >The IT "expert" now realises that they have a major problem and that
> > it
> > >has nothing to do with me using Linux here.
> > 
> > >Thank you to all those who replied and apologies to those who took
> > >offence at my suggestion that the guy was an idiot.
> > 
> > >Luckily for me, I knew that the problem was not here and therefore
> > >didn't spend time, which I can't spare, and money, that I couldn't
> > >really afford to waste, chasing a solution for a non existent
> problem.
> > 
> > >This would not necessarily be the case for other people and
> businesses
> > >and therefore, this "expert" would have wasted other peoples
> > resources.
> > >Hence my criticism.
> > 
> > A common problem in this "industry" is that there is a basic lack of
> > fault-finding skills. I.T. qualification is typically by training;
> > the following of relatively few routine processes.  As a result,
> > _blame_ gets shifted around (because *I* have followed all the
> > procedures it's not my fault) without even first identifying the
> > real problem or isolating it to a "black box".
> > 
> > It would be more appropriate (IMHO) if it were by a process of
> > education; one of incrementally increasing the students'
> > understanding of underlying principles and how they apply within the
> > various higher levels of the operating computer system and network.
> > 
> > I.T. can be an Engineering discipline. Problems can be solved
> > systematically by analysis, testing and measurement. And problems
> > can be averted by systems design based on the underlying principles,
> > quantitative analysis of requirements, testing and controlled
> > deployment.
> > 
> > I.T. staff need to at least concentrate on solving problems and not
> > attributing blame.
> > 
> > It is relatively trivial to test stuff like SMTP delivery; from
> > differently-configured machined ranging from plain-vanilla to those
> > struggling in a quagmire. It only requires a telnet client.
> > 
> > It is also trivial to check log files (on the *nix side at least) to
> > ensure that things are running as expected.
> > 
> > A lot of time and money is spent on hardware upgrades that simply
> > are not necessary. Abuse of existing systems is often the problem;
> > not one of insufficient capacity to cope with stuff that should be
> > happening.
> > --
> > /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
> <snip>
> 
> At the risk of moving this further off-topic, I'll add my two cents...
> 
> I cannot agree more strongly with Bernd's words. 
> 
> SMTP can be tested using telnet in nearly every instance (except when my
> mad cisco skillz are in effect :P ) and there is logging on both Windows
> and Linux mail servers. Admittedly the linux logging is nicer in most
> respects. I have a shell account provided by a third party, *purely* for
> testing little things like this where variables need to be removed or
> controlled.
> 
> Like whether the Exchange server having issues with EHLO vs HELO, or
> Exchange's weird AUTH requirements, simple problem solving is not out of
> anyone's league. 
> 
> A quick google wouldn't hurt either. Funniest response I've heard to
> "What does 'Microsoft Certified Partner' mean?" was,
> "I have to use Google better than most..."
> 
> While I won't name my company, we build our business on the fact we make
> the issues our personal responsibility. If your IT person doesn't,
> someone decent in the industry will need to or your IT needs will
> suffer. 
> 
> /soapbox
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Craig Foster
> _______________________________________________
> PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.org.au
> http://www.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug
> Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au
> 
> 
> -- 
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