[plug] Newbie Guide - The beginning

[Kev]

I rest my case!!

rpowersau at gmail.com wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 18:49:38 +0800, Kev <kdownes at tpg.com.au> wrote:
> <snip>
> 
>>Exactly!!  PLUG is a MOST unwelcoming group for newbies.  A newbie is
>>made to feel totally inferior and stupid in a PLUG environment.  You can
>>argue against that all you like - you'll be wrong every time!  This
>>thread I thought was about trying to address precisely this problem.
>>
>>It's PLUGgers' attitudes which must change first.  "We're not a Debian
>>shop, we're here to help you convert over from Wintendo to Linux the
>>most painless way possible".  Unfortunately it'll all end there, coz the
>>newbie's needs will go out the door while all the shining stars have
>>their own little argument about which distro is best.  Meanwhile the
>>newbie leaves, unnoticed, disallusioned, dissappointed and convinced
>>more than ever that Linux is for wankers.  In my 12 mths so far I've
>>seen a dozen or more come and go for exactly that reason.
>>
>>Go back and have a look at this thread "[plug] confused about linux".
>>This woman has Windows and is begging someone to help get off it and
>>onto Linux.  3rd reply starts like this, and I quote, "After you get the
>>SHIFT key fixed on your keyboard you can ... ".  If that's one of the
>>afforementioned Debian users, why would any outsider want to join?  Go
>>back through the whole thread and see if you think she left satisfied or
>>dissallusioned.  I'd almost guarrantee that she gave up, muttering
>>"wankers" under her breath.  PLUGgers' attitudes must change if PLUG is
>>to become a vehicle through which Windoze users are to be converted.
>>
>>Whether you all like it or not, the *nix world is just that - a world on
>>its own.  Anyone brought up on DOS based systems (or CP/M) will struggle
>>with *nix concepts.  It'd be different if you were brought up on *nix,
>>but trying to unlearn all that old stuff and start again is very hard,
>>especially for an ol' fart like me.
>>
>>
>>>problem with youthful exuberance is just that, youthful. There is a
>>>generation
>>
>>... and the problem with arrogant exclusivists is just that, arrogant
>>exclusiveness!
> 
> 
> I've been on this list for many years. And the reason I'm still on it
> after all these years  is exactly the opposite of what you say.
> Pluggers are very helpful and far from "exclusivists". You should try
> some other mailing lists if you really want arrogance.
> 
> Yes, the list has its quirks, and bad grammar and spelling and typing
> flames, as you've mentioned above, are some of those. But It's not
> arrogance, just some people's pet peeves. And yes there is bickering
> and disagreements, but what community doesn't have those things.
> 
> These people give their time and knowledge to anyone who asks for no
> material compensation. I'd say, IMHO, that's quite rear in society
> today.
> 
> And what I've found is, on a technical list, where you are seeking
> technical advice, you will get a lot of technical people. Not
> marketing people or sales people or PR experts with prepared scripts
> and years of training dealing with the public. They're just real
> people giving to others.
> 
> I guess my point in the end is that you only get out of something what
> you put into it. If you're coming to linux to be spoon fed happy
> meals, you might as well keep paying you're ms tax and stick with
> windoze. Bill will be quite happy to smile as he takes your money. 
> :-)
> 
> If you want to learn linux and interact with a good community, or even
> get into a good flame war or two, stay here and enjoy.
> 
> ;-)
> 
> * Please note all of the above is MHO
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>>gap of varying degrees, not only in age but knowledge, so finding common
>>>ground is going to be difficult. The informal nature of the Monday evening
>>>workshops makes things more so. It is daunting to go to a meeting where
>>>you are unknown and need assistance with your problem, in an atmosphere
>>>of higher learning. Everything is getting stacked against you form the
>>>start if your much older than late teens. The solution, like the problem, is going
>>>to be just as complex.
>>
>>You're correct all the way here.  But this is about changing all that
>>isn't it?  PLUGgers' attitudes must change.
>>
>>
>>>Mark
>>>(These comments are mine and not necessarily that of the PLUG Committee)
>>
>>And my comments are mine, and strongly heartfelt!
>>
>>Btw, I have already offered my help in rectifying this.
>>
>>Cheers
>>Kev
>>_______________________________________________
>>PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.linux.org.au
>>http://spark.plug.linux.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug
>>Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au
>>
> 
> 
>