[plug] plug Digest, Vol 109, Issue 17
William Kenworthy
billk at iinet.net.au
Fri Jun 28 08:47:23 UTC 2013
and for those of you who have not thought about it ... a recent
presentation at the ACS said laws have recently changed as that the last
person in an Australian jurisdiction has responsibility for ensuring
that data security meets all Australian regulations, even if the data is
stored in a cloud and may end up overseas. So if ASIC gets interested
in a corporate data leak, you cant say I sent it to Amazon/Azure/WhoEver
so its their responsibility :)
The problem with a public cloud is that you are never sure where your
data will end up, hence why there is still a quite large space for
private clouds.
BillK
On 28/06/13 16:17, Tim Basten wrote:
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> Personally, the reason I was look for such a service was I am not to
> comfortable with my data being stored on servers that at governed by
> foreign laws. I'd prefer to have my data within Australia. OwnCloud
> seems to be one of the better ones.
>
> On 28/06/2013 2:22 PM, "Paul Del" <p at delfante.it
> <mailto:p at delfante.it>> wrote:
>
> Hey Michael, Simon and Tim
>
> It's very tempting to install my own owncloud.org
> <http://owncloud.org> server and possibly just spin it up
> in something like Amazon EC2.
> This place https://owncube.com/networkmap-en.php has so many Data
> centers in EU and World wide.
>
> I have used the linonde.org <http://linonde.org> stuff years ago
> and It was quite good even then.
> For the moment I'll do some testing with the owncloud.org
> <http://owncloud.org> service providers.
> There's quite a few cheap and free providers on owncloud.org
> <http://owncloud.org>
>
> I should of explained myself better. I'm doing a lot of sync and
> backup of document size files too offsite for Australian clients
> and myself. Currently I use services like dropbox, crashplan,
> google docs and secondary layer like sugar sync & egnyte
> Services like dropbox and crashplan work so well and is a cheap
> service for the delta copy it provides.
> It would be nice to find something that works as well as or better
> in the open source world.
>
> Cheers
>
> On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 8:00 PM, <plug-request at plug.org.au
> <mailto:plug-request at plug.org.au>> wrote:
>
> Send plug mailing list submissions to
> plug at plug.org.au <mailto:plug at plug.org.au>
>
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>
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
> specific
> than "Re: Contents of plug digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: [plug-ctte] [Committee] Installing linux on Win 8 PC
> (Paul Del)
> 2. OwnCloud.org (Paul Del)
> 3. Re: [plug-ctte] [Committee] Installing linux on Win 8 PC
> (Lucas van staden)
> 4. Re: OwnCloud.org (Michael Van Delft)
> 5. Re: [plug-ctte] [Committee] Installing linux on Win 8 PC
> (Simon Wise)
> 6. Re: OwnCloud.org (Paul Dean)
> 7. Re: OwnCloud.org (Tim Basten)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 13:20:11 +0800
> From: Paul Del <p at delfante.it <mailto:p at delfante.it>>
> To: chieftiff at gmail.com <mailto:chieftiff at gmail.com>, PLUG
> Committee <committee at plug.org.au <mailto:committee at plug.org.au>>,
> plug at plug.org.au <mailto:plug at plug.org.au>
> Subject: Re: [plug] [plug-ctte] [Committee] Installing linux
> on Win 8
> PC
> Message-ID:
>
> <CANM56udHp3p0aN7-fgXrjXqhtBwCZP1JwUj7Vxycq_=joZhG4Q at mail.gmail.com
> <mailto:joZhG4Q at mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hey Fred
>
> Please send your emails to the mailing list. Not committee ;-)
> http://plug.org.au/resources/mailing-list
>
> If your wanting to install Linux on a notebook all good.
> Make sure you include brand/model/type of your notebook
>
> There may be a problem with this new secure boot being locked
> to Ms Windows
> http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/M/microsoft_secure_boot.html
>
> There is guys in the group who will know more about that
> Ciao
>
> >
> >
> Hi Perth Linux Guru's,
> Apologies if I am using the wrong forum for this but I have
> only just
> discovered your site ;)
> I have recently bought a Win 8 notebook PC and want to install
> Linux on it
> so that i can have the choice of using Windows or Linux as the
> OS. I
> understabd that this is not very straight forward as Win has a
> security set
> - up which needs to be turned off and my research on the net
> has not been
> conclusive. I have not used linux yet but would like to. Can
> you pse
> advise on this subject?
> Kind Rgds,
> Fred
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 12:27 PM, <chieftiff at gmail.com
> <mailto:chieftiff at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> > Fred sent a message using the contact form at
> > http://www.plug.org.au/contact**.
> >
> > Hi Perth Linux Guru's,
> > Apologies if I am using the wrong forum for this but I have
> only just
> > discovered your site ;)
> > I have recently bought a Win 8 notebook PC and want to
> install Linux on it
> > so that i can have the choice of using Windows or Linux as
> the OS. I
> > understabd that this is not very straight forward as Win has
> a security set
> > - up which needs to be turned off and my research on the net
> has not been
> > conclusive. I have not used linux yet but would like to.
> Can you pse
> > advise on this subject?
> > Kind Rgds,
> > Fred
> > ______________________________**_________________
> > committee mailing list
> > committee at plug.org.au <mailto:committee at plug.org.au>
> >
> http://lists.plug.org.au/**mailman/listinfo/committee<http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/committee>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> *Simplifying Information Technology Systems.*
>
> Creating reliable Information Systems.
> Using cutting edge Information Technology.
>
> Computer Help Desk IT Support Phone: (08)636-55618
> <tel:%2808%29636-55618>
> Websites CMS Cloud Inquiries Phone: (08)636-55619
> <tel:%2808%29636-55619>
>
> Help Desk or IT request
> http://bit.ly/deltekhelpdesk
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 13:39:21 +0800
> From: Paul Del <p at delfante.it <mailto:p at delfante.it>>
> To: plug at plug.org.au <mailto:plug at plug.org.au>
> Subject: [plug] OwnCloud.org
> Message-ID:
>
> <CANM56ueSxtCv_5RcpocxMSE5X2ydJb5LmKGhA2H=H2JFxbn7vg at mail.gmail.com
> <mailto:H2JFxbn7vg at mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hey
>
> Has any one used Owncloud.org?
> Any thoughts
> Or other recommendations of similar
>
> It's supposed to be more open cloud services
>
> Cheers Paul
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:12:47 +0800
> From: Lucas van staden <lvs at dedmeet.com <mailto:lvs at dedmeet.com>>
> To: plug at plug.org.au <mailto:plug at plug.org.au>
> Subject: Re: [plug] [plug-ctte] [Committee] Installing linux
> on Win 8
> PC
> Message-ID:
>
> <CAO0xyVOWORi0YHWn-ezJcQrWhDPgJHR-hzUXUiushYAE9cN63Q at mail.gmail.com
> <mailto:CAO0xyVOWORi0YHWn-ezJcQrWhDPgJHR-hzUXUiushYAE9cN63Q at mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hey Fred,
>
> You can download one of the popular Linux Distro's, boot of
> the cd/dvd and
> just follow the install procedure.
> Most modern linux install processes will deal with the windows
> partition,
> and allow you to dual boot. (and set that up for you)
>
> Not had any experience with Win 8 yet (don't think I will),
> thus I cannot
> say 100% if dual boot setup works with it out-the-box like
> that, or if you
> need to do 'stuff' to make it work.
>
> As a first time linux user, I would highly recommend Linux
> Mint as your
> first step. From experience I had found that windows users
> find it easy to
> adapt to that distro.
>
> ref: http://www.linuxmint.com/
>
> Welcome to Linux.
>
> -Lucas
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Paul Del <p at delfante.it
> <mailto:p at delfante.it>> wrote:
>
> > Hey Fred
> >
> > Please send your emails to the mailing list. Not committee ;-)
> > http://plug.org.au/resources/mailing-list
> >
> > If your wanting to install Linux on a notebook all good.
> > Make sure you include brand/model/type of your notebook
> >
> > There may be a problem with this new secure boot being
> locked to Ms Windows
> > http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/M/microsoft_secure_boot.html
> >
> > There is guys in the group who will know more about that
> > Ciao
> >
> > >
> > >
> > Hi Perth Linux Guru's,
> > Apologies if I am using the wrong forum for this but I have
> only just
> > discovered your site ;)
> > I have recently bought a Win 8 notebook PC and want to
> install Linux on it
> > so that i can have the choice of using Windows or Linux as
> the OS. I
> > understabd that this is not very straight forward as Win has
> a security set
> > - up which needs to be turned off and my research on the net
> has not been
> > conclusive. I have not used linux yet but would like to.
> Can you pse
> > advise on this subject?
> > Kind Rgds,
> > Fred
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 12:27 PM, <chieftiff at gmail.com
> <mailto:chieftiff at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >> Fred sent a message using the contact form at
> >> http://www.plug.org.au/contact**.
> >>
> >> Hi Perth Linux Guru's,
> >> Apologies if I am using the wrong forum for this but I have
> only just
> >> discovered your site ;)
> >> I have recently bought a Win 8 notebook PC and want to
> install Linux on
> >> it so that i can have the choice of using Windows or Linux
> as the OS. I
> >> understabd that this is not very straight forward as Win
> has a security set
> >> - up which needs to be turned off and my research on the
> net has not been
> >> conclusive. I have not used linux yet but would like to.
> Can you pse
> >> advise on this subject?
> >> Kind Rgds,
> >> Fred
> >> ______________________________**_________________
> >> committee mailing list
> >> committee at plug.org.au <mailto:committee at plug.org.au>
> >>
> http://lists.plug.org.au/**mailman/listinfo/committee<http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/committee>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Simplifying Information Technology Systems.*
> >
> > Creating reliable Information Systems.
> > Using cutting edge Information Technology.
> >
> > Computer Help Desk IT Support Phone: (08)636-55618
> <tel:%2808%29636-55618>
> > Websites CMS Cloud Inquiries Phone: (08)636-55619
> <tel:%2808%29636-55619>
> >
> > Help Desk or IT request
> > http://bit.ly/deltekhelpdesk
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.org.au <mailto:plug at plug.org.au>
> > http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug
> > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.org.au
> <mailto:committee at plug.org.au>
> > PLUG Membership: http://www.plug.org.au/membership
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:21:42 +0800
> From: Michael Van Delft <michael at hybr.id.au
> <mailto:michael at hybr.id.au>>
> To: plug at plug.org.au <mailto:plug at plug.org.au>
> Subject: Re: [plug] OwnCloud.org
> Message-ID:
>
> <CAJ0HW+fibCw=xG=eNX894=X75=HBcFT0hRqu2qtrtDAs6WpsDg at mail.gmail.com
> <mailto:HBcFT0hRqu2qtrtDAs6WpsDg at mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Hey Paul,
>
> I've setup a cheap VPS from linode running ownCloud and used the
> desktop client to sync files. I feel like it's 90% there but just
> needs a bit more polish before it becomes good enough that I'd
> move
> all my stuff from Google Drive/Contacts/Calendar/Mail (There is a
> Roundcube plugin for mail)/Bookmarks. I've found it to be a little
> slow but that could be because I'm hosting it on the cheapest
> linode
> server I could find it's got 512mb RAM and hosted in
> Singapore. Might
> be a lot quicker hosted on a beefier machine at home.
>
> I've got it running at https://hybr.id.au if you want to try
> it out I
> can set up an account for you. (I use a certificate from
> cacert.org <http://cacert.org> so
> if you get a certificate warning don't worry.)
>
> I'd also be very interested to hear about any open source self
> hosted
> cloud solutions especially if anyone knows of a self hosted office
> suite like Google Docs.
>
> Cheers,
> Michael
>
> On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Paul Del <p at delfante.it
> <mailto:p at delfante.it>> wrote:
> > Hey
> >
> > Has any one used Owncloud.org?
> > Any thoughts
> > Or other recommendations of similar
> >
> > It's supposed to be more open cloud services
> >
> > Cheers Paul
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.org.au <mailto:plug at plug.org.au>
> > http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug
> > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.org.au
> <mailto:committee at plug.org.au>
> > PLUG Membership: http://www.plug.org.au/membership
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 17:54:55 +0800
> From: Simon Wise <simonzwise at gmail.com
> <mailto:simonzwise at gmail.com>>
> To: plug at plug.org.au <mailto:plug at plug.org.au>
> Subject: Re: [plug] [plug-ctte] [Committee] Installing linux
> on Win 8
> PC
> Message-ID: <51CC0BEF.2050107 at gmail.com
> <mailto:51CC0BEF.2050107 at gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 27/06/13 14:12, Lucas van staden wrote:
> > Hey Fred,
> >
> > You can download one of the popular Linux Distro's, boot of
> the cd/dvd and
> > just follow the install procedure.
> > Most modern linux install processes will deal with the
> windows partition,
> > and allow you to dual boot. (and set that up for you)
> >
> > Not had any experience with Win 8 yet (don't think I will),
> thus I cannot
> > say 100% if dual boot setup works with it out-the-box like
> that, or if you
> > need to do 'stuff' to make it work.
> >
> > As a first time linux user, I would highly recommend Linux
> Mint as your
> > first step. From experience I had found that windows users
> find it easy to
> > adapt to that distro.
> >
> > ref: http://www.linuxmint.com/
> >
> > Welcome to Linux.
>
> Depending on the tablet the secure boot stuff could be either
> a pain, or will
> prevent you using Linux (or anything much else) on that device
> completely. I
> can't confirm this myself, I have no such device, but when Win
> 8 was released
> this was the situation ...
>
> If you bought one of the smaller ARM based ones then I believe
> it is permanently
> hardware locked to prevent anything except updates approved
> and signed by
> Microsoft for your (sic) particular device and the binaries
> that the (signed by
> Microsoft and unmodified or else it will not be boot-able) Win
> 8 OS permits you
> to run because they are signed by Microsoft and unmodified
> (i.e. you paid for
> them via the official app store or whatever it is called in
> Microsoft land). In
> which case the "Welcome to Linux" may unfortunately be a
> little premature, and
> if you do insist on booting Linux then eBay will be your friend.
>
> If you bought an intel based tablet it is apparently possible
> to turn off the
> hardware lock, or at least switch the signing authority or
> something ... an open
> source organisation has paid (on your behalf, aren't you
> lucky) the secure boot
> makers for appropriate codes etc to sign Linux boot systems,
> and boot disks are
> I believe able to use this to boot into Linux. One laptop
> manufacturer and their
> customers still got badly stung by this, since there was a bug
> in the secure
> boot system which completely bricked the laptop if you used
> this system ... it
> required a return to the manufacturer before it would do
> anything at all. The
> permanent locking to Microsoft exclusively is required by
> Microsoft before they
> will certify an ARM device for Windows 8, the removable lock
> is required for
> certification for an intel device. Google will be your friend
> in this case, and
> the solution less drastic than sell it and buy something
> better. I haven't
> tried, I haven't bought (if you can call it that ... not sure
> who actually
> 'owns' it given the above) a Microsoft tablet.
>
>
> Simon
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 19:10:32 +0800
> From: Paul Dean <paul at thecave.ws <mailto:paul at thecave.ws>>
> To: plug at plug.org.au <mailto:plug at plug.org.au>
> Subject: Re: [plug] OwnCloud.org
> Message-ID: <20130627191032.1623cf9b at slab3.inthecave.ws
> <mailto:20130627191032.1623cf9b at slab3.inthecave.ws>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> What version of ownCloud are you running?
>
> I've been watching this over the past few years, and slowly as
> it matures, v5.0 looked it had reached a reasonable maturity
> level.
>
> Would love to hear more of ppls opinions about it.
>
>
> --
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Paul Dean.
>
> "Life is not WHAT you make it, it's WHO you have in it..."
>
>
> On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:21:42 +0800
> Michael Van Delft <michael at hybr.id.au
> <mailto:michael at hybr.id.au>> wrote:
>
> >Hey Paul,
> >
> >I've setup a cheap VPS from linode running ownCloud and used the
> >desktop client to sync files. I feel like it's 90% there but just
> >needs a bit more polish before it becomes good enough that
> I'd move
> >all my stuff from Google Drive/Contacts/Calendar/Mail (There is a
> >Roundcube plugin for mail)/Bookmarks. I've found it to be a
> little
> >slow but that could be because I'm hosting it on the cheapest
> linode
> >server I could find it's got 512mb RAM and hosted in
> Singapore. Might
> >be a lot quicker hosted on a beefier machine at home.
> >
> >I've got it running at https://hybr.id.au if you want to try
> it out I
> >can set up an account for you. (I use a certificate from
> cacert.org <http://cacert.org> so
> >if you get a certificate warning don't worry.)
> >
> >I'd also be very interested to hear about any open source
> self hosted
> >cloud solutions especially if anyone knows of a self hosted
> office
> >suite like Google Docs.
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Michael
> >
> >On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Paul Del <p at delfante.it
> <mailto:p at delfante.it>> wrote:
> >> Hey
> >>
> >> Has any one used Owncloud.org?
> >> Any thoughts
> >> Or other recommendations of similar
> >>
> >> It's supposed to be more open cloud services
> >>
> >> Cheers Paul
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.org.au
> <mailto:plug at plug.org.au>
> >> http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug
> >> Committee e-mail: committee at plug.org.au
> <mailto:committee at plug.org.au>
> >> PLUG Membership: http://www.plug.org.au/membership
> >_______________________________________________
> >PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.org.au <mailto:plug at plug.org.au>
> >http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug
> >Committee e-mail: committee at plug.org.au
> <mailto:committee at plug.org.au>
> >PLUG Membership: http://www.plug.org.au/membership
>
>
> --
>
> Thanks
>
> Paul Dean.
>
> "Life is not WHAT you make it, it's WHO you have in it..."
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 19:40:44 +0800
> From: Tim Basten <tbasten at gmail.com <mailto:tbasten at gmail.com>>
> To: "plug at plug.org.au <mailto:plug at plug.org.au>"
> <plug at plug.org.au <mailto:plug at plug.org.au>>
> Subject: Re: [plug] OwnCloud.org
> Message-ID: <-382283334138592506 at unknownmsgid>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> I jus installed the latest version on the weekend. Without having
> spent to much time on it, I have picked up a few things which
> are more
> of an annoyance then an issue. One of the, being that only
> allows for
> vCard formats for importing contacts. Wile there are ways to
> get most
> contacts to a vCard, having an option to import from other format
> types out be better. The other one is the android app is only
> for file
> sharing (from what I can tell). If you want to sync your
> contacts onto
> your phone, you need to download another app on your android that
> syncs vCards. Other then those things the layout of the website is
> really nice, it was really easy to setup and the chrome bookmarks
> extension work much better then delicious.
>
> I haven't been fully converted yet so at this stage I am still
> using
> Dropbox and gmail for my contacts.
>
> Thanks
> Tim
>
> On 27/06/2013, at 7:11 PM, Paul Dean <paul at thecave.ws
> <mailto:paul at thecave.ws>> wrote:
>
> > Hi Michael,
> >
> > What version of ownCloud are you running?
> >
> > I've been watching this over the past few years, and slowly
> as it matures, v5.0 looked it had reached a reasonable
> maturity level.
> >
> > Would love to hear more of ppls opinions about it.
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Paul Dean.
> >
> > "Life is not WHAT you make it, it's WHO you have in it..."
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:21:42 +0800
> > Michael Van Delft <michael at hybr.id.au
> <mailto:michael at hybr.id.au>> wrote:
> >
> >> Hey Paul,
> >>
> >> I've setup a cheap VPS from linode running ownCloud and
> used the
> >> desktop client to sync files. I feel like it's 90% there
> but just
> >> needs a bit more polish before it becomes good enough that
> I'd move
> >> all my stuff from Google Drive/Contacts/Calendar/Mail
> (There is a
> >> Roundcube plugin for mail)/Bookmarks. I've found it to be a
> little
> >> slow but that could be because I'm hosting it on the
> cheapest linode
> >> server I could find it's got 512mb RAM and hosted in
> Singapore. Might
> >> be a lot quicker hosted on a beefier machine at home.
> >>
> >> I've got it running at https://hybr.id.au if you want to
> try it out I
> >> can set up an account for you. (I use a certificate from
> cacert.org <http://cacert.org> so
> >> if you get a certificate warning don't worry.)
> >>
> >> I'd also be very interested to hear about any open source
> self hosted
> >> cloud solutions especially if anyone knows of a self hosted
> office
> >> suite like Google Docs.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Michael
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Paul Del <p at delfante.it
> <mailto:p at delfante.it>> wrote:
> >>> Hey
> >>>
> >>> Has any one used Owncloud.org?
> >>> Any thoughts
> >>> Or other recommendations of similar
> >>>
> >>> It's supposed to be more open cloud services
> >>>
> >>> Cheers Paul
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.org.au
> <mailto:plug at plug.org.au>
> >>> http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug
> >>> Committee e-mail: committee at plug.org.au
> <mailto:committee at plug.org.au>
> >>> PLUG Membership: http://www.plug.org.au/membership
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.org.au
> <mailto:plug at plug.org.au>
> >> http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug
> >> Committee e-mail: committee at plug.org.au
> <mailto:committee at plug.org.au>
> >> PLUG Membership: http://www.plug.org.au/membership
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Paul Dean.
> >
> > "Life is not WHAT you make it, it's WHO you have in it..."
> > _______________________________________________
> > PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.org.au <mailto:plug at plug.org.au>
> > http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug
> > Committee e-mail: committee at plug.org.au
> <mailto:committee at plug.org.au>
> > PLUG Membership: http://www.plug.org.au/membership
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.org.au <mailto:plug at plug.org.au>
> http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug
> Committee e-mail: committee at plug.linux.org.au
> <mailto:committee at plug.linux.org.au>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of plug Digest, Vol 109, Issue 17
> *************************************
>
>
>
>
> --
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>
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> http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug
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> PLUG Membership: http://www.plug.org.au/membership
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> PLUG discussion list: plug at plug.org.au
> http://lists.plug.org.au/mailman/listinfo/plug
> Committee e-mail: committee at plug.org.au
> PLUG Membership: http://www.plug.org.au/membership
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